What happened to the 69 DSE Car?

[Tom.A]

I saw this posted on the DSE site but does not say how it happened. What a bummer..
http://www.detroitspeed.com/projects/dse1969camaro/dse1969camaro-pg1.html

[GregWeld]

I saw this posted on the DSE site but does not say how it happened. What a bummer..
http://www.detroitspeed.com/projects/dse1969camaro/dse1969camaro-pg1.html

Your link just takes you to the DSE Build thread for this car --- and a quick check of DSE news has no mention of anything "wrong" or having happened to the car.

[Rybar]

Your link just takes you to the DSE Build thread for this car --- and a quick check of DSE news has no mention of anything "wrong" or having happened to the car.

Greg, put your glasses on. :_paranoid Looks like they smashed it into a tree or something. There's pics right in the link.

[frankv11]

well it looks like it hit tree or a pole
it seems like driver is ok
so somebody has to have some video

[scherp69]

I can't remember where I read it, but I believe Stacy hit a pole while racing. She was fine. Just wish I could remember where I read about it.

[redfire69]

They posted to facebook a couple days ago:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=292197987472424&set=a.230715896953967.78031.220813107944246&type=1&theater

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/294820_292197987472424_220813107944246_1247773_896 331856_n.jpg

"Thank You from Stacy Tucker

I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone who attended RTTH VII for their help and concern during my ‘incident’ on the autocross during the Top 10 Shootout. I was very excited to be 4th out of 78 cars going into the Top 10 Shootout and unfortunately had a racing incident. When any of these cars are raced, these things will happen at some time. This happened to be my time at Pigeon Forge. Thank you for everyone’s concern. It is nice to know we have so many friends in the Pro-Touring community. I am just fine thanks to the engineering and build quality of the vehicle. The car is already in the shop, torn apart, and will be better and faster than before. The entire DSE Team is jumping in to have it on the track for me in no time. Thanks, also, to everyone here at DSE for their extra hard work so I can participate in these events. See everyone soon at the next event!"

[GregWeld]

AH HA!! Missed it completely!

I didn't go thru the photos -- and then when I went to the "news" section and there was no mention... I didn't check any further.

Just shoot me!

LOL

[Vegas69]

Looks like a good excuse for some carbon fiber or aluminuminuminum.:rolleyes:

[tazzz2_ca]

That little lady pushes harder than mostly anyone I know in the pro-touring circuit and when you ride the edge long enough,,, sooner or later you cross that line.... It happen, she fine and we're all real happy she's ok...

Frankly another real life testimonial to just how good/safe the DSE products are... They test them hard as this wasn't a little nudge/ bump from what I heard (I was off preparing the evening BBQ when it happened to be clear)....

[coolwelder62]

All the video was confiscated.And was not allowed to be show on the web.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Kids, don't text while auto-xing.

[jeff71]

I've always thought it was a little dangerous to run a autocross in a parking lot with poles and trees.

The couple I've been to were held at airfield's so cones would be the only thing to hit.

Glad Stacy was ok!

[Dayton]

All the video was confiscated.And was not allowed to be show on the web.:lol:

Insurance reasons?

[mpozziCPL]

I've always thought it was a little dangerous to run a autocross in a parking lot with poles and trees.

Most SCCA Solo events have a Safety Steward that approves the course design and placement on the site. Using a parking lot with curbs, poles, trees, and other obstructions presents an entirely different animal to a course designer.

Incidents like this do happen at autocross events. It's very rare, though.

Mary Pozzi

[James OLC]

Insurance reasons?

In a round about, obtuse way... Maybe. The Tucker's don't seem to have any issues telling the story though...

Most SCCA Solo events have a Safety Steward that approves the course design and placement on the site. Using a parking lot with curbs, poles, trees, and other obstructions presents an entirely different animal to a course designer.

Incidents like this do happen at autocross events. It's very rare, though.

Mary Pozzi

Especially courses where speeds can exceed 50 mph... At that point you're really pushing the envelope for "fun" style autocrosses and safety should be a prime consideration. No matter where you hold these there will always be danger points - its up to the organizer and course designer to ensure that they do their best to minimize the risks. Ultimately it's also up to the participant to decide it they want to run it.

[James OLC]

All the video was confiscated.And was not allowed to be show on the web.

A This could/should be a learning experience and is a good example of how competitive motorsports can be dangerous - even at our level. There was an incident at the GG show this weekend where a cars throttle got stuck at WOT going through the finish line. If it weren't for the skill of the driver - depressing the clutch before killing the ignition - it could have been scary. As it was it was a good reminder that you need to be aware of what can happen and think about what you would do in the same circumstances.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Having lived/worked around many race car/tracks... this is super good advice!

[Vegas69]

Yep, you have a split second to react in these tight venues. A stuck throttle or a loss of brakes and you're screwed. At a local SCCA event, a throttle stuck on a miata and ended up a set of steps and almost through a building. The whole self tech thing is a load of bull sheet. EVERYBODY shoudl be subject to an inspection by a knowledgable racer with tech experience. If nothing else, two sets of eyes are always better than one.

Guys, we are hauling ass in these protouring cars. Every time I get out on the road course, I"m reminded of the importance of quality parts and maintenence. These aren't factory engineered cars. Things do work there way loose and wear out prematurely. We are pushing these things to the max!

[musclecarmatt]

i saw it on there facebook page...and was like "holy crap" glad stacy's ok...feel sure they'll have the 69 maro back rolling in no time!

[ModernMuseum]

A lot of effort seems to be being put into this - repressing the photos and videos - which is too bad.

Umm..yeah, the photos of the wreckage are on DSE's web site.

Props to DSE for posting them there.

[CAMAROBOY69]

Its great to hear Stacy is ok. Time to run the roll bar from the firewall to the front for some extra support in case this happens again. :yes: I was actually surprised they didnt already have a full roll bar in this car.
Its also awesome she was able to get in the top 4 out of 78 cars. Thats something to be proud of for sure.
And for those that mentioned insurance, most dont cover auto X or road track events. At least not any in my area.

As mentioned above, you should always be prepared for brake failure or WOT. Always have that in the back of your mind and be ready to respond instantly. I actually had this happen in my driveway this weekend with the Mustang. I was just driving up and down the driveway and when I went to go forward the throttle stuck almost wide open! I slammed the brakes and hit the shifter into neutral. Could have been a disaster. Just always keep that in mind and be prepared for it. And build your cars in preparation for an accident.

[ccracin]

And for those that mentioned insurance, most dont cover auto X or road track events. At least not any in my area.


I believe they were speaking of event insurance and not car insurance.

[James OLC]

Umm..yeah, the photos of the wreckage are on DSE's web site.

Props to DSE for posting them there.

As I said - "The Tucker's don't seem to have any issues telling the story though"...

[CAMAROBOY69]

Yup accidents happen and as I said you should build your cars to be prepared for the accident. Especially the interior to protect the driver and passengers.

There is no reason at all for anyone to try and "hide" what happened. In fact they should do an article about this to help others learn about safety while building their cars. They could go in detail about the speed of the accident, the parts damaged, and how well the interior safety equipment held up. We always read about the builds and the money put into the cars but an article about the damage from an accident, and the areas to reinforce would be a great read for the majority of the community. :thumbsup:

[Stielow]

Yep, you have a split second to react in these tight venues. A stuck throttle or a loss of brakes and you're screwed. At a local SCCA event, a throttle stuck on a miata and ended up a set of steps and almost through a building. The whole self tech thing is a load of bull sheet. EVERYBODY shoudl be subject to an inspection by a knowledgable racer with tech experience. If nothing else, two sets of eyes are always better than one.

Guys, we are hauling ass in these protouring cars. Every time I get out on the road course, I"m reminded of the importance of quality parts and maintenence. These aren't factory engineered cars. Things do work there way loose and wear out prematurely. We are pushing these things to the max!

Not to get way off track here but I'm a HUGE fan of self tech sheets. I also believe in personal responsibility and Darwinism. I look my car over every time I take it out to make sure it is good. I find lose bolts all the time. I re-torque all my critical fasteners, check brake pads, and just look the car over after every track event. This winter I’ll pull the engine, trans and diff to have them checked out. If my car breaks it is my fault! Not some clip board totting tech guy that did not see my rear caliper bolt was finger tight.

I love events like the last one I went to at Gingerman. The registration and Tech process took 2 minutes. I paid my money signed the drivers sheet, turned in my “self” tech sheet the tech guy looked at my helmet and I was done.

I also believe many of this “Pro-Touring” Auto-Xs are a little dangerous and sold as “safe”. There have been a number of incidents at Goodguys events and some at shoot-outs. I think there have been more cars damaged Auto-Xing than doing the road course stuff.

Auto-Xing is great! I started out Auto-Xing due to the fact it was cheap and attainable. When I work with new people we always start out Auto-Xing. It is where we are going to get new people participating in events. So we should attempt to make them fun and as safe as possible.

One thing we could do is communize our rules to make it easier for new people. Goodguys event allow 180 tread wear and Optima events want 200 as an example. It would be very nice if this winter some of the major players got together and set common set of rules.

Back to the DSE Car. Stacy is a very good driver and all their cars are prepared top notch. She was unhurt because they have good cars with good safety equipment. I have seen a couple DSE front sub-framed Camaro involved in accidents and the sub-frames showed great toughness in absorbing the impact. I’m very happy she is OK and the car is on the mend and I’m sure the Blue ‘69 DSE test car will be back on track with Stacy at the wheel soon. :thumbsup:

Mark

[Vegas69]

My only counter to that Mark is the fact that not all involved in this hobby are GM engineers or master techs like myself. Some rarely turn their own wrench or pop the hood except to puff out their chest. While a majority are capable of teching their own cars, I still think an SCCA type tech improves safety even if it prevents one accident.

[wmhjr]

As I said - "The Tucker's don't seem to have any issues telling the story though...". There is, however, a lot of effort being being made by others to minimize discussion about the incident.

There are good reasons for this also. I recognize that there are pros and cons to release of some information, however IN GENERAL (to be clear, not making any statements about this event) once things get out in the public domain there is no longer any control, and it is getting more and more difficult to satisfy event insurance, liability, legal, and venue restrictions. Problem is that on the web things tend to spiral out of control and often out of context - and in some cases this could result in less events being possible. It's all well and good when things are discussed here. Right up until the point where the underwriter discovers a thread and refuses future liability coverage. Then we'll be reducing the number of (well run) events rather than increasing them. Just something to think about.

[ccracin]

There are good reasons for this also. I recognize that there are pros and cons to release of some information, however IN GENERAL (to be clear, not making any statements about this event) once things get out in the public domain there is no longer any control, and it is getting more and more difficult to satisfy event insurance, liability, legal, and venue restrictions. Problem is that on the web things tend to spiral out of control and often out of context - and in some cases this could result in less events being possible. It's all well and good when things are discussed here. Right up until the point where the underwriter discovers a thread and refuses future liability coverage. Then we'll be reducing the number of (well run) events rather than increasing them. Just something to think about.

Exactly. When the promoters can't get insurance and the events are cancelled, where will we all be? Remember, a lot of these events were started to give all of us a venue to have SAFE fun with our vehicles with out having to build race cars. I've done that, that is not what my Dad and I are in this for. But, we would like to be able to drive it hard in a controlled atmosphere. As Mark said your safety is mainly your own concern. I also agree with Todd. Some out there have more money than knowledge. That is where a good tech official can help. Part of safety also is knowing what your vehicle is capable of and knowing it's limits. This whole subject in my opinion has the potential to ruin this Pro-Touring "movement" if you will. If this can not be worked through, there are going to be a ton of 6 figure race cars for the street that don't have a sand box to play in. Chances are they will not meet any sanctioning body rules completely and there won't be enough to create a class. Who's ready to to put their 150K Camaro on the track wheel to wheel instead of against the clock?
Just my .02! :cheers:

[SLO_Z28]

People are making this seem like a car tech, or self preparation problem, it isn't. This collision occurred at RTTH7 autocross. Here is a video of the event:
GMrowrOvc-4
Parts of that make me CRINGE. This autocross should have never happened, the course wasn't safe, and the venue wasn't adequate for the type of course. This should have never been run to begin with, and it was only a matter of time until something of this nature occurred.

To give the entire story since everyone is beating around the bush here, the event promoter is Bill Howell. Bill started a thread on Pro Touring about how he knew that these cars, and courses were unsafe, and that we might need to require more rules, and better safety equipment. He then later deleted the thread, I'm assuming so that when something like this happened the insurance carrier wouldn't see that he had concerns, and he could limit his liability.

I think this falls into the 6P's category. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. In this case someone with experience, such as a SCCA steward, could have drastically changed this course, or even ruled the venue inadequate and prevented this entire thing.


To be fair, Bill did promote the RTTC2 event that I went to, and the courses were exceptionally well designed. The autocross and road course both were safe, fun, and challenging.

[57hemicuda]

Is everyone forgetting what we are doing here, racing is not for the faint of heart. If this stuff scares you, take up knitting. I ran the event, there was nothing unsafe about it. Stacy is an EXCELLENT driver, and Detroit Speed builds the best equiptment on the market. Unfortunatly, if you push the car hard enough, sooner or later your going to go off road. That's racing. Ron

[bret]

James, I have a question...

Did you attend this event?

[SLO_Z28]

James, I have a question...

Did you attend this event?

No. Ill be the first to admit that I'm being a keyboard commando, but I stick behind my comments.

[Bill Howell]

Parts of that make me CRINGE. This autocross should have never happened, the course wasn't safe, and the venue wasn't adequate for the type of course. This should have never been run to begin with, and it was only a matter of time until something of this nature occurred.

To give the entire story since everyone is beating around the bush here, the event promoter is Bill Howell. Bill started a thread on Pro Touring about how he knew that these cars, and courses were unsafe, and that we might need to require more rules, and better safety equipment. He then later deleted the thread, I'm assuming so that when something like this happened the insurance carrier wouldn't see that he had concerns, and he could limit his liability.

I think this falls into the 6P's category. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. In this case someone with experience, such as a SCCA steward, could have drastically changed this course, or even ruled the venue inadequate and prevented this entire thing.


To be fair, Bill did promote the RTTC2 event that I went to, and the courses were exceptionally well designed. The autocross and road course both were safe, fun, and challenging.


WOW, really?
First, it is amazing to me that you can watch a video and from across the country determine the course was unsafe. A multi-time national SCCA champion set it up, over 780 runs were made in 6 hours, and suddenly, with one incident, it should have never happened?
Second, I never, in the thread you mentioned, said courses or cars were unsafe. I started a thread, to get people involved in how we could improve things. We have gone, in 6 years from static car shows to full on road racing in our cars. Some say we don't need roll bars, others think we can never do enough to be safe enough and should stop all competition. In my position, I want to be as safe as we can reasonably be without killing the hobby. Once I gleaned all the info I was looking for, I moved the thread, not deleted. Anyone with proper authority can view it.
Third, no one, including myself, ever tried to HIDE the event or the incident. In fact, DSE posted pictures of the car the very next day. I did ask people not to post up video or pictures of the car until DSE had the chance to tell the story as they saw fit. After they did, the story pretty much died until this thread, and just as I suspected, keyboard warriors have gone from the facts about the wreck to their own speculation about how they would have done things different, how this was just horrible and blah, blah, blah when in fact they are just running their mouth about something they don't know what they are talking about. And yes, this is the very thing that some unknowing insurance agent could read and have issue with. In my case, my people knew about it that afternoon. Total damage was hurt front end on camaro and one dead tree (6 inches around) and one broken 4x4 post.
Fourth, new safety measures are in store for all the event I do next year, however, none are based on this incident. This was a freak deal, as most racing incidents are, and I am not sure what could have been done different to prevent it. However, if it did have to happen, I am thankful it happened to a car and team that is probably the most prepared and safety conscious team out there. A true testament to that is that Stacy walked away and never missed a beat the rest of the weekend.

If we are going to do anything other than sit at a static car show, these things will happen. To learn from it is what we should be striving to do and do better next time. To want videos, pictures and countless Monday Morning Quarterbacks out there to sensationalize something way out of proportion serves no good purpose.

If you like events and want them to continue, move on. If you want to jeopardize them, keep posting opinions in threads like this.

I agree with Mark about self inspections and think anyone serious enough to push their car to it's limits should be also. However, I am amazed when I see cars that don't even have the battery secure show up to autocross???? The trouble is Mark has forgot more about car safety and proper maintenance than most of us will ever learn. So until everyone thinks like him, we will have to do more than take their word about their car if they are planning on running it at an event.

If anyone wants to discuss this with me further, PM, email me at [email protected] or call me @ 865.850.8228. I have nothing to hide but I refuse to discuss it further in this format.

[Fluid Power]

WOW, really?
First, it is amazing to me that you can watch a video and from across the country determine the course was unsafe. A multi-time national SCCA champion set it up, over 780 runs were made in 6 hours, and suddenly, with one incident, it should have never happened?
Second, I never, in the thread you mentioned, said courses or cars were unsafe. I started a thread, to get people involved in how we could improve things. We have gone, in 6 years from static car shows to full on road racing in our cars. Some say we don't need roll bars, others think we can never do enough to be safe enough and should stop all competition. In my position, I want to be as safe as we can reasonably be without killing the hobby. Once I gleaned all the info I was looking for, I moved the thread, not deleted. Anyone with proper authority can view it.
Third, no one, including myself, ever tried to HIDE the event or the incident. In fact, DSE posted pictures of the car the very next day. I did ask people not to post up video or pictures of the car until DSE had the chance to tell the story as they saw fit. After they did, the story pretty much died until this thread, and just as I suspected, keyboard warriors have gone from the facts about the wreck to their own speculation about how they would have done things different, how this was just horrible and blah, blah, blah when in fact they are just running their mouth about something they don't know what they are talking about. And yes, this is the very thing that some unknowing insurance agent could read and have issue with. In my case, my people knew about it that afternoon. Total damage was hurt front end on camaro and one dead tree (6 inches around) and one broken 4x4 post.
Fourth, new safety measures are in store for all the event I do next year, however, none are based on this incident. This was a freak deal, as most racing incidents are, and I am not sure what could have been done different to prevent it. However, if it did have to happen, I am thankful it happened to a car and team that is probably the most prepared and safety conscious team out there. A true testament to that is that Stacy walked away and never missed a beat the rest of the weekend.

If we are going to do anything other than sit at a static car show, these things will happen. To learn from it is what we should be striving to do and do better next time. To want videos, pictures and countless Monday Morning Quarterbacks out there to sensationalize something way out of proportion serves no good purpose.

If you like events and want them to continue, move on. If you want to jeopardize them, keep posting opinions in threads like this.

I agree with Mark about self inspections and think anyone serious enough to push their car to it's limits should be also. However, I am amazed when I see cars that don't even have the battery secure show up to autocross???? The trouble is Mark has forgot more about car safety and proper maintenance than most of us will ever learn. So until everyone thinks like him, we will have to do more than take their word about their car if they are planning on running it at an event.

If anyone wants to discuss this with me further, PM, email me at [email protected] or call me @ 865.850.8228. I have nothing to hide but I refuse to discuss it further in this format.


Well said Bill!

Darren

[camcojb]

Thanks Bill. I for one greatly appreciate what you've done to grow these events, they're a lot of fun. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Perfect Bill! Kudos to you!

If it was all someone else's fault --- then I'm thinking DSE might have been the ones to say so... and so far they haven't. DONE!

Talked about you today btw just in case your ears were ringing! Dr Renner and I were having a nice chat and said how much we hoped RTTC would be coming up!! Such fun events!!

XOXO

[Bill Howell]

Thanks Guys.
Greg, just between us, there will be 2 RTTC style events in 2012, just don't tell anyone else right now...:thumbsup:

[mpozziCPL]

You just did, you goof! <ducks for cover>

Mary Pozzi

[ccracin]

Excellent post Bill. Speaking as some one who was tired of cruises that entailed parking in a lot and driving high end one flip to open lawn chairs, I applaud what you have done for this hobby. Also as someone with a racing background I know the challenges you face in putting these events together. I can't wait for our project to be completed and participate in many of your events. They better continue or you'll have to answer for the extra thousands that have been spent to get the truck out of the parking lot! :lol: :thumbsup: :cheers:

[Stuart Adams]

Bill, good job as always. Glad Stacy is alright. Thank goodness their stuff is as safe as it is. In a round about way from the looks of the car, it sais alot about their parts. For as hard as the competitors push their cars I'm surprised their are not more serious incidents. Kudos to you Bill.

Looking forward to seeing you at SEMA.

[Flash68]

Thanks Guys.
Greg, just between us, there will be 2 RTTC style events in 2012, just don't tell anyone else right now...:thumbsup:

Best news of the day Bill! :thumbsup: :woot:

[clill]

ohh Bill... We need a event up at Thunderhill in Northern Ca. I think we discussed it earlier. Or even at infineon but Thunderhill is safer for beginners and cheaper.

[GregWeld]

Thanks Guys.
Greg, just between us, there will be 2 RTTC style events in 2012, just don't tell anyone else right now...:thumbsup:

:willy: :willy: So happy I'm the first to know!!! OMG you're too much!

See ya soon buddy!

:cheers: :woot:

[mpozziCPL]

ThunderHill ... YES!!! C'mon, Bill. Give us Northern Californians some Runnin' Love too. You have everything you need right at the track, too. Long straights for the "Flat Spot" competition, one cool track, and a good sized area for the autocross.

There's also a few good restaurants in Willows too. One makes a very mean margarita and I'm not telling you how I know this.

Mary Pozzi

[GregWeld]

ThunderHill ... YES!!! C'mon, Bill. Give us Northern Californians some Runnin' Love too. You have everything you need right at the track, too. Long straights for the "Flat Spot" competition, one cool track, and a good sized area for the autocross.

There's also a few good restaurants in Willows too. One makes a very mean margarita and I'm not telling you how I know this.

Mary Pozzi

I got first dibs on the spare bedroom!!

LOL

[mpozziCPL]

Like HELL, Greg. I'll arm wrestle you for it ...

Mary P.

[mpozziCPL]

Honestly, though ... it would be very cool to run one of these events at T-Hill.

Mary P.

[Flash68]

ThunderHill ... YES!!! C'mon, Bill. Give us Northern Californians some Runnin' Love too. You have everything you need right at the track, too. Long straights for the "Flat Spot" competition, one cool track, and a good sized area for the autocross.

There's also a few good restaurants in Willows too. One makes a very mean margarita and I'm not telling you how I know this.

Mary Pozzi

Thunderhill would be most excellent. And a solid PT community in Nor Cal. :thumbsup:

Mary, I like how you call yourself a Northern Californian yet your location says Central Calif. :lol:

[mpozziCPL]

Northern, Central ... semantics. Keeps 'em guessing.

Mary Pozzi

[Vegas69]

Great news Bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:unibrow:

[wmhjr]

The course was safe. Period.

Some of the comments here from people who were not even there remind me of the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face".

This is one of those things I just plain don't get. Crap happens. We all know that virtually EVERY form of motorsports is under increasing pressure from legal, liability, etc, and yet it sure seems as though simply in order to voice an opinion, some folks risk eliminating events that sure seemed safe to me.

Here's an idea. If you were there, and you have issues, call Bill. If you weren't there, IMHO you have no idea what safety measures were in place, you can't reasonably know how the course was. If you could, we wouldn't need to walk race courses or take practice laps prior to competition runs. We'd just watch videos and be done with it. If somebody thinks Bill is making tons of money on these events to go on elaborate European vacations think again. Or here's another idea. Give Bill a break, and put together your own event. Perspective is a wonderful thing.

[ParkerRS]

This event has auto crossed at the same location for 5 years including this one. I couldn't make this years event, but have attended and auto crossed in this parking lot for the past four. I've also attended several other events which were either put on by Mr. Howell or that he was a major force in organizing.

I have never been to one of Mr. Howell's events where safety wasn't taken seriously. I've always felt that good safety checks and rules were in place to ensure both the enjoyment of participents and spectators as well as their safety.

At the inaugural motorstate challenge, RTMC, and RTTH I felt as though things were ran smoothly and competently. I applaud Bill for creating the most enjoyable form of car and enthusiast gathering available at this point in time.

No one is forced to drive beyond their limits or levels of comfort and competency. If a new attendee is pushing too hard they are usually asked to either rain it in a little or sit out the rest of the segment. This is not only done by Bill but also other attendees in a nice fashion. This way one persons over exuberance will not ruin a good thing for us all.

If you haven't met or don't know MR. Howell Then you should keep the judgemental comments to yourself. This gentleman of his own innitative, takes his personal time and effort to organize put on and oversee these events at a break even, no-profit margin for all of our enjoyment. He is straight forward, honest and personable to all who attend. I for one am glad to consider him a friend to both myself and the hobby.

Comments such as the above ones are the reason for him needing to question others and make changes. Uneducated and unrestrained comments will end this type of event quicker than anything else due to liability and insurance costs. Then we will be left sitting in a parking lot rubbing and shining on static vehicles once again, or putting our nice street cars in wheel to wheel race competition. I for one prefer what we have.

[DSE-Stacy]

Having the most first hand experience in the topic of this discussion, I felt compelled to give my thoughts.

First, Bill Howell runs many events and this event was run safely. When the incident happened, I had the course workers and MANY other participants at my side instantly. As I stated in my 'Thank You' this Pro-Touring community is extremely supportive. I appreciate everyone who helped. These things will happen when we push our cars to the limit. I am a competitive person, and was willing to push my car to its boundaries and obviously beyond the car's limits and driver's skill. That will happen sometimes, but I was willing to take that risk.

Secondly, the course was ABSOLUTELY safe. We ran the course all day Friday and most of the day Saturday until my incident on Saturday late in the day during the shootout. I won't speak for everyone, but I know I have an ego that made me 'step it up' in the shootout so I could improve my times. I have no issue at all with the course layout or design. It was simply an accident.

Lastly, the car performed just as designed. The DSE subframe absorbed the impact as intended. No, it wasn't pretty. However, a vehicle should be designed to dissipate energy so it doesn't transmit all of the impact to the driver. I just have a sore neck and a bruised ego. I think the ego will be harder to overcome than my neck.

Lastly, Bill simply requested that no video or pictures be posted until we (DSE) posted it on our site. My 'Thank You' was honest and true. I do appreciate everyone's kind words, emails, and cards. Thanks, again, for everyone's support. As you can see on our site, the car is already apart and getting improvements!!!

Please don't let this put a damper on any of our events. It was simply driver error on my part.

Stacy

[Blake Foster]

ohh Bill... We need a event up at Thunderhill in Northern Ca. I think we discussed it earlier. Or even at infineon but Thunderhill is safer for beginners and cheaper.

Most Excellent IDEA!! Great Track, been on it and loved it.

:thumbsup:

Welcome to Lateral G Stacy

[Bow Tie 67]

Just an observation, I for one have watched in car video of Road America and thought Holy $%$T but when on track felt safe at speed. Mind you there are 5 foot concrete walls just off track at 100 mph. I have also found myself watching my videos and saying " Hmmm I did not even notice that armco when on track " .

I was at the event and have attended several years now. Safety is always #1.

Perspective from video can be very misleading.

Welcome Stacy, and I cant help but :thumbsup: :captain: for admitting your part of this club of egomaniacs!!

[clill]

Thunderhill also has almost no walls, just fields to drive off into.

http://www.thunderhill.com/

[Bill Howell]

I have left a message at thunderhill and am at the moment checking on things.
How many of you would be up for a day of fun there? Need about 50 people @ $250 to make it happen.

[73CPCAMARO]

I have left a message at thunderhill and am at the moment checking on things.
How many of you would be up for a day of fun there? Need about 50 people @ $250 to make it happen.

Bill,

You can count on me being there. Great facility for us to play.

Brian

[Flash68]

I have left a message at thunderhill and am at the moment checking on things.
How many of you would be up for a day of fun there? Need about 50 people @ $250 to make it happen.

Bill, I am absolutely in. :cheers:

[clill]

I'm in and I can probably convince Stielow to show up...Now if the crowd coming can convince Greg Weld to buy my Mustang for the event we will all be happy.

[Vegas69]

Never happen, his ego is to big to be that slooooooow. :D :unibrow:

[mad68rs]

Thunderhill would be awesome

[96z28ss]

Never happen, his ego is to big to be that slooooooow. :D :unibrow:

Not true we saw how slow he was at RTTC 2.

[96z28ss]

I'm in and I can probably convince Stielow to show up...Now if the crowd coming can convince Greg Weld to buy my Mustang for the event we will all be happy.

I think you'd have to raise the asking price, too cheap for him.

[Vegas69]

Not EVERYBODY. :D

[96z28ss]

Not EVERYBODY. :D

yeah I guess your right. I should of got it on Video.

[sik68]

Thunderhill's my home track; I'm there. Elevation changes are carazy fun

[jeff71]

I'm good with Thunder Hill!

[Stielow]

Thunderhill also has almost no walls, just fields to drive off into.

http://www.thunderhill.com/

Well there was that one time I almost rolled your Mustange with Jody in the car at turn 3.....:lol:

Other than that is very safe....except for the time I was balck flagged with Jody in the car for going off track at high speed....:lol:

Humm maybe it is not me and it is that bad influance of Jody....:rofl:

OK no more Jody and I shoud stay out of trouble. :cheers:

Mark

[clill]

No Butthead...That was turn 5 at the top of the Cyclone...Sombody forgot there was a left hand turn that drops straight down and decided to go straight. You did manage to avoid the flag station though.

[camcojb]

Well there was that one time I almost rolled your Mustange with Jody in the car at turn 3.....:lol:

Other than that is very safe....except for the time I was balck flagged with Jody in the car for going off track at high speed....:lol:

Humm maybe it is not me and it is that bad influance of Jody....:rofl:

OK no more Jody and I shoud stay out of trouble. :cheers:

Mark

No Butthead...That was turn 5 at the top of the Cyclone...Sombody forgot there was a left hand turn that drops straight down and decided to go straight. You did manage to avoid the flag station though.
I've always told people that riding with you was an "E" ticket ride! Probably something to do with the near death experience of the whole deal. :lol:

[CarlC]

I have left a message at thunderhill and am at the moment checking on things.
How many of you would be up for a day of fun there? Need about 50 people @ $250 to make it happen.

I'm in Bill.

[zbugger]

Amazingly, I have the money for Thunderhill. And it's close enough for me to show up. I think I'm in. I want to get my 4th gen on the track.

[Stuart Adams]

I would like to come watch you pups.

[GregWeld]

I'm in and I can probably convince Stielow to show up...Now if the crowd coming can convince Greg Weld to buy my Mustang for the event we will all be happy.



Alright already.... sheesh!

I'm under so much pressure! I'm tense! Give me a break... I can hardly breathe!

[Blake Foster]

we would be there

[GregWeld]

Hurry the F up Billy..... I want to drive my new track car! :yes: :rolleyes:

[camcojb]

Hurry the F up Billy..... I want to drive my new track car! :yes: :rolleyes:

If you bring it to this event at Thunderhill and Charley gets Mark to show, let him give you a ride to show you how well the car works. He's a very good and patient teacher, you'll appreciate his advice. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Okay - we jacked this thread enough.....

Sorry Stacy!

I was hoping to have Stacy teach me!! :D

EEEEEEEEHHHHHHHAAAAAAA

[ks71z28]

Amazingly, I have the money for Thunderhill. And it's close enough for me to show up. I think I'm in. I want to get my 4th gen on the track.

Come on up, I want to know more of the details, Mary told me about it. i am 35 minutes away, and there at least once a month

[tazzz2_ca]

Guess I'll have to hijack some space over at Mary and David's again for the event cause you know the Crazy Canadian is going to show for any RTT event Bill organizes....

[clill]

I have room at my place and I'm closer.

[DFRESH]

DFRESH & Big Wanda would attend it at Thunder Hill----count me in---just finishing up the Magnum install and swapping over to an aluminum radiator/electric fan combo. Should be good to go in about a month to any RTTH's you have coming up.

That's great that Mrs. DSE is good to go.

Just to let you guys know--this was at Pleasanton a couple of years back---and it was one of the smallest courses ever, even for a GG show---this poor guy hit the break in the concrete k-rails accelerating towards the finsh line area--things can happen fast, even at the small auto-x events. I hate to say it like this, but in any form of racing, if you've been around it awhile, you see this sooner or later--drag racing, standing mile, salt flats, etc--you name it. It's the unfortunate reality of going fast.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/Pleasanton%20GG%20show/PleasantonTrip2010086.jpg

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/Pleasanton%20GG%20show/PleasantonTrip2010087.jpg

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/Pleasanton%20GG%20show/PleasantonTrip2010085.jpg

[GregWeld]

Big Wanda still have her car for sale? I keep calling the number that was posted and get some hooker joint in Vegas? What's up with that?

[Matt@BOS]

Big Wanda still have her car for sale? I keep calling the number that was posted and get some hooker joint in Vegas? What's up with that?

You keep calling that number? Gregggg... You have some 'splaining to do!

Matt

[GregWeld]

Matt....... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ...... I guess!:woot:

[tazzz2_ca]

Matt did he happen to mention that she sounded great, has an opening during the SEMA week and that he is suffering the early stages of Alzheimer's should any wives be reading this post ROFLMAO......

[Matt@BOS]

Matt did he happen to mention that she sounded great, has an opening during the SEMA week and that he is suffering the early stages of Alzheimer's should any wives be reading this post ROFLMAO......

Alzheimer's you say? I know a side effect of Alzheimer's can be disinhibition, so he can probably play that card.

Matt

[RBR]

I started reading this thread trying to find car insurance. I'm glad Stacy Tucker is ok. DSE has treated me well during my build.:thumbsup:

It would be killer to take my car to ThunderHill. I've never been to an event before.

It would also be cool to finally see some people like Mark (I bought his book after my build:( , would have saved me some time and money.) and Jody ( I bought his motor:thumbsup: 2000 miles haven't got it dyno'd yet:( just tuned) but its been a fun 2000 miles!

I hope this event happens and I can attend!!!