Bring up the next generation rodder

[64skylarkls1]

Well, I bit the bullet and invested in my son's future as well as aiding in the future of the "classics' car hobby. My 13 year old son and I make a road trip this weekend to pick up his first car - a project 68 Firebird.

It sure is different today. Most of us grew up turning a wrench both because we had to, and because it's what many of our friends did. Kids today grow up around computer games and couldn't tell a vice-grip from a claw hammer. I've always been a car hobbist but also the guy who saved my family many thousands of dollars by doing all the family car repairs. I'm sure the same can be said for many of you.

In my humble opinion, due to video games, cell phones, instant messaging and so on, kids today are programmed on quick, real time results in most aspects of life. It seems to me that there is little patience for anything that is to be done with your hands, projects that can't be completed quickly and easily. I'm afraid for the future of this hobby.

For me personally, my son David has fallen in this same mind set and I hope to change it, I've now made a financial investment to change it. He does love cars and goes to most car shows with me. But when it has come to working in my shop with me, he gets bored too easliy and wants to go back to the computer or x box. He has always had an eye for the Firebrds so I found a project car to his liking. The goal is to have the car driveable by the time he gets his license.

My hope is that his love for his own car will make the difference, that he will learn how to fix things and experience the satisfaction of looking at what you've created and accomplished. Needless to say, those skills will also save his own family money throughout the years.

David and I (mom too) agreed that to write a contract of expectations. Must spend a certain amount of time each month working on the car, grades can't slip, must eventually get a part time job, must still save for college...... If expectations are not met, or corrected, the ownership of the car would revert back to my wife and I.

I love the thought of working on our project cars in my shop together. If it works out it will be a major item to cross off my bucket list.....Build a car - together with my son - for him.

For those of you who may have gone down this road already, I would sure appreciate your advice and tips.

Gene

[wellis77]

I like the idea. Out of curiosity, what kind of build will it be (parts, etc) and who covers the cost of parts? Hope it goes according to plan for you and your son.

[ironworks]

That's cool. Have fun.

[Amatouring]

I love the thought of working on our project cars in my shop together. If it works out it will be a major item to cross off my bucket list.....Build a car - together with my son - for him.

For those of you who may have gone down this road already, I would sure appreciate your advice and tips.

Gene

I like the way you think. Best of luck with this, and keep us posted!!

[Track Junky]

You nailed it on the head with the direction kids are taking today. My kids are all spoiled and have all the up to date electronic gadgets you can think of and i feel the same way you do sbout the future out come.

I equate it to me as a General Contractor and the engineers and architects that I meet with. They can throw it on paper but have never actually built anything hands on so when it comes time for the build some of the things on paper just dont work realistically when actually trying to put it together by hand.

Anyhow, I commend you for your effort, getting your son to work with his hands will certainly give him a better understanding of all work that is incorporated in putting a project together.

[64skylarkls1]

Thanks for the comments guys. He sure has that gleam in his eye right now and has been looking up many Firebirds online to figure out color scheme, wheels, etc.

Questions had been asked about what parts will be used and who will pay for them.

As far as who will pay for them - my son will over time. That is also part of the contract. My wife and I will borrow the funds as the build progresses and keep track of the totals. He will pay us back (without interest) as time and circumstances permit. If he would decide to quit the project before it is finished, he would not pay us for the parts as the car will revert back to me.

But here is where I could use your input. What parts to buy... The plan is for an extreme budget build. All the body panels have already been profesionally replaced and the chassis redone. That portion was done over 10 years ago so the ride height needs to change. I have some parts that I will give him for half price such as a 13" brake package that I had bought for a previous project that changed directions.

The car comes with a four speed and has a posi rear that's already been rebuilt and installed. With the price of fuel and the scary thoughts of much hp (I don't want him driving like I did in my Chevelle at 16 :faint:), I'm perplexed on what to do for a motor. We live 13 miles from town so the gas goes quickly. Fuel economy is most important at this point. It can always be changed over to hp when he's old enough to handle it.

If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears. Also, if anyone is upgrading suspension and has some decent aftermarket used stuff they would give my son a deal on, please let me know.

My real hope is that this is something that carries forward for years to come. The two of us driving our own cars to car shows together. Can you imagine the fun of autocross racing trying to stay ahead of your son's best times?! Now that's what I call dreamin!!!

[70rs]

I REALLY LIKE your thinking and direction with the father/son build. My son is 7 now and we are building "his" car. He will own it one day. And he loves helping me work on it too.

For your build, just some basics. Maybe a Hotchkis TVS suspension. Or Global west spring and shock package. Both very good systems and are budget friendly.
Possibly DSE leaf springs and coils up front. Just to get the look you want and better performance too.
For wheels that will fit your brakes, give Jon or Justin a call at Driverzinc. They are a sponsor here. They just started a sale on the New Gen line of wheels. They have some really cool designs and the prices right now are GREAT! They can put together a complete package with tires, wheels and suspension for you.

A decent small block chevy motor like a 290hp crate motor right from your local dealer. About $1,900.00 all new with a warantee. Run a small 600cfm carb, decent ignition and exhaust and you have a fun car without killing the budget.
As for the mileage, a V8, 4 speed, carb,........its not going to be a Prius on gas. But it shouldnt do too bad either.

Good luck, start a build thread so we can all watch it happen.

[64skylarkls1]

I REALLY LIKE your thinking and direction with the father/son build. My son is 7 now and we are building "his" car. He will own it one day. And he loves helping me work on it too.

For your build, just some basics. Maybe a Hotchkis TVS suspension. Or Global west spring and shock package. Both very good systems and are budget friendly.
Possibly DSE leaf springs and coils up front. Just to get the look you want and better performance too.
For wheels that will fit your brakes, give Jon or Justin a call at Driverzinc. They are a sponsor here. They just started a sale on the New Gen line of wheels. They have some really cool designs and the prices right now are GREAT! They can put together a complete package with tires, wheels and suspension for you.

A decent small block chevy motor like a 290hp crate motor right from your local dealer. About $1,900.00 all new with a warantee. Run a small 600cfm carb, decent ignition and exhaust and you have a fun car without killing the budget.
As for the mileage, a V8, 4 speed, carb,........its not going to be a Prius on gas. But it shouldnt do too bad either.

Good luck, start a build thread so we can all watch it happen.

I hate to say it but that will still put us well over what we can spend on the Firebird for my son's first car. He's got three older sisters that are already cleaning out my pockets on a regular basis. Much of this build will need to be done the old school way with used parts.

As far as the drivetrain goes, this is what crossed my mind. Buy a used LS motor, tune and gear it for fuel mileage. I wouldn't be afraid of a higher mileage motor as they are pretty tough. Then as he got older, the motor could be freshened, upgraded, retuned and geared for performance. I thought this set up would be much better on fuel than a carburated 350. The car will still need paint and some interior purchased and of course a ton of the small this and that.

I'll be up front, I paid $4000 for a rock solid body and chassis as I'm no good at bodywork and it can take a ton of build time. The chassis already has subframe reinforcements welded in, new body mounts and chassis bushings throughout, new springs front and rear, new floors and quarters welded in and new GM inner and outer front fenders. That being said, I need to have this car on the road for under $10,000 total invested.

Keep your thoughts coming guys, it is really appreciated.

Gene

[70rs]

Ok. No problem.

Hotchkis or Global West coils in front, leafs in back. Or cut your coils up front and use blocks to drop the rear.

Drop out 5.3 L LS truck motor (i have over 210k on mine with no problems), ls1 or 6 intake, modify the stock tank for EFI, (the stock intake might fit under the firbird hood if you are lucky)


A set of cast wheels from Driverzinc, and you are done. If you do the work yourself you can easily fit this and a decent paint job within your budget.
The 5.3 ls motors are dirt cheap now. Just 300/500 bucks gets a good one on ebay with tbe ecm and harness.

[Amatouring]

although I think a conventional 400 Pontiac would be much cheaper, a Junkyard 5.3 out of a truck and some highway gears would really make a nice driver out of it.

[70rs]

You could save some cash by using the stock brakes, just use good pads and rotors up front. Then you dont have to spend so much on bigger wheels to clear your aftermarket set.

Just thinking out loud.....:D

[64skylarkls1]

You could save some cash by using the stock brakes, just use good pads and rotors up front. Then you dont have to spend so much on bigger wheels to clear your aftermarket set.

Just thinking out loud.....:D

This forum is great and it's the people that make it that way. Thanks for the offline discussion Eric, it was very helpful.

As I mentioned, one of the most important items will be wheels and stance - nothing old school here. I think a plan is developing: Used 5.3 truck motor with it's auto trans and the right gearing can be mild enough to give good fuel economy and still be respectable. If I recall correctly, the chassis has already been rebuilt with poly bushings and new springs front and rear so my thoughts are maybe lower the rear with lowering blocks and cut the front springs to get the stance and upgrade with heavy sway bars. My 13" brakes all around surrounded by a set of off the shelf 18's. While it may not be autocross competitive, it should be a lot of fun for a 16 year old and stay well within budget. With this set up, upgrading motor and suspension down the road could be done in stages.

What do ya think fellas?

[70rs]

It was good talking to you too.
I think your plan sounds good! The overdrive auto and injected 5.3 should be a lot of fun and still get decent mpg. And like you said, upgrades down the road are easy to do as the budget allows.

[89 RS]

I would like to do the same thing with my son when he gets older, I think you have very cool idea. Sounds like you have a pretty good plan...I'm sure that will be a good time.

I agree with you on a lot of kids having little or no work ethic today, to busy playing video games or whatever else. It kills me how I hear about some kid complaining because he is bored, yet he is old enough to work and doesn't work because everything is given to him. I was in Lowe's last weekend with my 3yr old son and he was pretending to drive the lawn tractors and looking at tools, etc; then a guy probably in his late 60's made a comment to me as he saw me grin about my son. The guy said, "don't let him get hooked on those video games, teach him how to use a hammer and nail"...I told him absolutely and I agreed with him. My son would live outside if we let him...lol.

[Hotchkis]

Ok. No problem.

Hotchkis or Global West coils in front, leafs in back. Or cut your coils up front and use blocks to drop the rear.

Drop out 5.3 L LS truck motor (i have over 210k on mine with no problems), ls1 or 6 intake, modify the stock tank for EFI, (the stock intake might fit under the firbird hood if you are lucky)


A set of cast wheels from Driverzinc, and you are done. If you do the work yourself you can easily fit this and a decent paint job within your budget.
The 5.3 ls motors are dirt cheap now. Just 300/500 bucks gets a good one on ebay with tbe ecm and harness.


Gene - This is a cool venture to get your son involved in hot rodding. We have to pass the torch to the younger generation. Good luck on the build.

Eric - Thanks for throwing our name in there and we appreciate the kind words.

[64skylarkls1]

I would like to do the same thing with my son when he gets older, I think you have very cool idea. Sounds like you have a pretty good plan...I'm sure that will be a good time.

I agree with you on a lot of kids having little or no work ethic today, to busy playing video games or whatever else. It kills me how I hear about some kid complaining because he is bored, yet he is old enough to work and doesn't work because everything is given to him. I was in Lowe's last weekend with my 3yr old son and he was pretending to drive the lawn tractors and looking at tools, etc; then a guy probably in his late 60's made a comment to me as he saw me grin about my son. The guy said, "don't let him get hooked on those video games, teach him how to use a hammer and nail"...I told him absolutely and I agreed with him. My son would live outside if we let him...lol.

Man, I hate to burst your bubble but I thought the same thing when my boy was three. "Oh, he loves tractors, cars, outdoors, trucks....he's going to be all boy, all man, be with me in my hobby shop........." but it didn't go as I thought it would. It started out as planned but things changed after a couple years in school. Kids are just so influenced by what their friends are playing that you can't stop it. It's such a tech world for kids that it's all they talk about. A kid without some form of it today feels like an outsider, and as parents we don't want that either.... and the rest leads to where I'm at now.

So I've been trying to maintain a good balance in other ways. I went to Hunters Safety Training with him and bought him a .22. We've had much enjoyment target shooting together, we got a couple cheap radio controlled airplanes and fly them (and crash them) together, the occasional golf game..... But most importantly, I take him to car shows with me. I've found I get more of a car connection with him if I ask him what cars he likes and have him tell me why. Then once I started encouraging his interest, it really took off.

Maybe he'll end up a gearhead but maybe not. I'm good with it either way.....but if he does end up with the same hp itch that I've always had then..:woot: :woot:

I hope the best for you and your son as well!!

[64skylarkls1]

Gene - This is a cool venture to get your son involved in hot rodding. We have to pass the torch to the younger generation. Good luck on the build.

Eric - Thanks for throwing our name in there and we appreciate the kind words.

Thanks much. I've got all the Hotchkis goodies on my Skylark which will see pavement this coming spring. As far as my son's Firebird, I think it will too but way down the road, when he is old enough to afford it. Besides, by that time you guys will have a whole new design anyway!! :thumbsup:

Gene

[70rs]

Hey Gene,
Any luck finding the info we spoke about? Trans swap, LS swap stuff.

[64skylarkls1]

Hey Gene,
Any luck finding the info we spoke about? Trans swap, LS swap stuff.

Haven't looked into it further yet. Getting the Firebird home this weekend. Lot's of other things going on but I've got plenty of great leads!!!

Thanks again.

[70rs]

Haven't looked into it further yet. Getting the Firebird home this weekend. Lot's of other things going on but I've got plenty of great leads!!!

Thanks again.

Oh yeah, it's this weekend that's right! You know you have to give us pictures now right? Haha!

Might as well toss in some pictures of the Skylark too!:D

[64skylarkls1]

Okay, here we go. Left to right: 1) My son David looking over his parts. 2) A shot showing the nice chassis work already done. 3) My son and I packing the trunk. 4) David getting excited and acting a bit silly. 5) The car ready to make the trip home. We did make it home but I don't think David will sleep tonight!! :willy:

Bottom row is some pics of my Skylark as I bought it, some pics of my new Rushforth wheels and a pic of my dash changes - using the LS donor gauge cluster behind the tinted glass. It will make it back on the road next spring. :thumbsup:

[89 RS]

Cool, looks like some good father/son time. By the way, my son's name is David also.:)

[64skylarkls1]

Cool, looks like some good father/son time. By the way, my son's name is David also.:)

Thanks, and how old is your David? Any father/son builds - past, present or future?

[64skylarkls1]

Thanks, and how old is your David? Any father/son builds - past, present or future?

Never mind, my bad. Just realized it was you that talked earlier about your three year old son.. Good enjoy him...man they grow up fast.

[70rs]

AWESOME!

Now you have to start a build thread, or maybe one of the mods can move this to the project updates section.

I really want to watch you guys build this 'bird.

Nice Skylark too. :thumbsup:

[bentfab]

Awesome! Can't wait for the day to come.

[GrabberGT]

Man, I hate to burst your bubble but I thought the same thing when my boy was three. "Oh, he loves tractors, cars, outdoors, trucks....he's going to be all boy, all man, be with me in my hobby shop........." but it didn't go as I thought it would. It started out as planned but things changed after a couple years in school. Kids are just so influenced by what their friends are playing that you can't stop it. It's such a tech world for kids that it's all they talk about. A kid without some form of it today feels like an outsider, and as parents we don't want that either.... and the rest leads to where I'm at now.



Im in that boat now. My son has been in Kindergarten for a week now and has already asked for an I-Touch because so-and-so has one. "It is sooo cool. It plays games and movies and songs and.... " We've been staying clear of the techno gadgets for all the above reasons but are starting to question whether that is really the right decision. He loves hanging out in the garage and playing hot wheels for now but it wont be long before ALL his friends have a "gadget" that he just cant live without.

[70rs]

Having the gadgets is one thing. How often they use them is another.
My nephew LIVES on his XBox live and games like Halo. He is 11. His entire summer has been spent in his room on the games. Pathetic.
I honestly feel if he and his dad had a better relationship and ANY common interest things would be different. I think it comes down to parenting choices.
The games, computers, phones, friends....those will always be distractions. The bond we have with our kids is what matters.
Having projects like these cars is great, as long as the interest is mutual.

In this case it sure looks like a big hit for father & son. This will be really cool to see happen..:thumbsup:

[64skylarkls1]

Having the gadgets is one thing. How often they use them is another.
My nephew LIVES on his XBox live and games like Halo. He is 11. His entire summer has been spent in his room on the games. Pathetic.
I honestly feel if he and his dad had a better relationship and ANY common interest things would be different. I think it comes down to parenting choices.
The games, computers, phones, friends....those will always be distractions. The bond we have with our kids is what matters.
Having projects like these cars is great, as long as the interest is mutual.

In this case it sure looks like a big hit for father & son. This will be really cool to see happen..:thumbsup:

You're right, the kids can have the stuff so they aren't an "outsider" but the time should be limited. It is hard to stay on top of that too. They would live on it if it's not watched consistantly. I also hate what these games have done to minmize the shock and torment of killing another human being. We put off letting our son play any of the human combat games until this year, he was the last one in his class by at least two years. But again, this is something that all if his friends play on line over and over again. After a very lengthy discussion with him we felt he was mature enough to discern what's right and wrong. I have made him sit down with me and watch some of the true ugly stories of war and combat, and I will continue to do so. I hate it though, why not creatures or aliens from outer space, why desencetize our kids to killing people?

I heard something ironic on the radio a couple of weeks ago. Animal rights people were mad because a dog fighting app came out, and I agree with them. But the ironic part is that we can get upset about games where animals are killed but have thousands more games where people are killed and nobody says a word. Then we wonder about Columbine?

Anyway, thanks for all the input guys. It will take some time now before we can actually make some progress on the projects as there are many other needs for a while.

I would really love to hear about any other father son projects though. It's up to us to keep this hobby alive.

Gene

[Hotchkis]

Thanks much. I've got all the Hotchkis goodies on my Skylark which will see pavement this coming spring. As far as my son's Firebird, I think it will too but way down the road, when he is old enough to afford it. Besides, by that time you guys will have a whole new design anyway!! :thumbsup:

Gene


Gene - That's cool! We're sure you've seen this cool Skylark video. :)

kV1hbUI_MW4

[HotRod68Camaro]

Gene,

That's awesome what your doing. That's how i started out. I got my '68 when i was 14, and that's what i spent all of high school doing. Building that '68.

[64skylarkls1]

Gene - That's cool! We're sure you've seen this cool Skylark video. :)

kV1hbUI_MW4

Now that's what I'm talkin about!!! :thumbsup:

[64skylarkls1]

Gene,

That's awesome what your doing. That's how i started out. I got my '68 when i was 14, and that's what i spent all of high school doing. Building that '68.

Thanks Kyle. Yah, my '72 Chevelle defined who I was in my small High School. :unibrow: I guess maybe you could say that I hope this Firebird will give my son some respect in High School as well. :wow: