Chad's 68 Camaro V3.0 build. LS3 & TCI goodies

[Chad-1stGen]

Been trying to make my way over to this site more often so I figured I'd throw up my build here too.

Version 1.0 of my 68 Camaro was a great car. In fact between V1.0 and 3.0 your average person looking at the car won't notice a huge difference. On the street there won't be a huge difference. However, like many on this site I can't leave well enough alone and after owning the car for 5 years I'm doing an even bigger upgrade than V2.0 was.

V1.0 had the equivalent of a Hotchkis TVS kit with 16 TTII wheels, EFI, 6 speed and was a great street car. Here is a pic.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3781/23346890112_large.jpg

However, after attending my first track day in 2009 I wanted MORE. So Version 2.0 consisted of ATS AFX spindles, SPC upper and lower control arms, C6 Z51 front brakes, 18" wheels with better rubber and eventually an adjustable rear bar to give me better handling. I did a post on that round of upgrades over on PT.com

Here is one of my favorite shots V2.0 in action:

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894016_large.jpgSo

After getting more and more into track days I've embarked on Version 3.0 of my car. Current planned upgrades are:

MORE POWA!!! In the form of:
- Mast Motorsports LS3 427. Have already picked this up off of craigslist, never installed.

Better Handling!!!! In the form of:
- TCI engineering front subframe with double adjustable coil overs and 13" 6 piston willwoods.
- TCI engineering rear torque arm with double adjustable coil overs and 13" 4 piston willwoods.
At the same time I will be swapping out my 8.5" 10 bolt to a 12 bolt but keeping the 3.73 ratio and posi.

I really wanted to run more tire up front and already had some slight rubbing issues with my V2.0 set up. I've seen TCI kick but with their car at a variety of autocrosses and RTTC and appreciate the bang for the buck of that set up. And since I'm swapping out the rear and suspension now was the time if ever to mini tub. So that is what I'm doing. Target is to run 275 front tire and 315 rear tire on 18" rims. Because I also am upgrading to FIKSE Profil 5S wheels I did a 9.5" front and 11.5" rear rim to allow me to go 285 up front evenutally and switch between 315 and 335 out back.

I wasn't exactly suffering traction problems in the rear, rather I continued to suffer from too much understear for my tastes. However, with the addition of another 250 horsepower from the engine upgrade the mini tub seemed like a good idea.

I will hopefully be posting lots of pics as the build progresses.

[Chad-1stGen]

As I mentioned above I've decided to do a Mini Tub. However, I somewhat agonized over this decision and figuring out the logistics for it took a lot longer than I expected. The cost of the Mini Tub is very high in relation to the overall project budget and handling wise my most important goal was to get larger rubber up front, not necessarily in the back lol.

But the decision was made and after a quick trip to Classic Industries to pick up a set of DSE mini tubs I dropped the car off at Pomona Valley Customs. These guys were recommended by TCI and are close to the TCI shop so I am hoping to pick up the car and suspension parts at the same time lol.

Quick tip. Anyone else in SoCal who wants to get their hands on DSE mini tubs in a quick period of time classic industries stocks them and did price mach the $350 advertised price of DSE for me (otherwise they are $389).

So PVC sent me some progress pics today which is why I decided to finally start my project thread. I don't have the fab skills or desire to try on a car as clean as mine (not to mention no welder...) so I knew from the beginning I'd be hiriing this part of the job out.

Here is my trunk after 5 years under the trunk mat. Still nice and clean though :)
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894093_large.jpg

This is them starting on the 2nd tub. Looks like a plasma cutter.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894088_large.jpg

Cutting out the passenger side tub and part of the trunk pan. Goodbye shock mounts!
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894089_large.jpg

Frame rail narrowed:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894090_large.jpg

DSE wheel tub going in:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894091_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894092_large.jpg

Shot of the new tub against the frame rail:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894087_large.jpg

I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product including what the welds look like. I'm also tempted to pay for the sub frame and torque arm install. Even though I can do that work myself it's going to be tough in my tiny garage and I've been having chronic back pain since January. I can throw my back out putting on shoes :/

[MaxHarvard]

Nice work!

Btw, that's a spot weld drill bit, not a plasma cutter in his hand, I believe :)

[Rybar]

Nice upgrades, seems like alot of people are upgrading thier already done rides including me with DSE mini-tubs and suspension changes.

Keep us posted, I love threads like this. :cheers:

EDIT: We just need Payton King to post in this thread and that makes 4 for 4 on guys doing this :lol:

[DriverzInc]

Chad,
Who's the hottie posing on your car on your Cardomain page? :unibrow:

[Cris@JCG]

Nice list of upgrades their Chad! Looking forward to the progress..

[Flash68]

Chad,
Who's the hottie posing on your car on your Cardomain page? :unibrow:

You will find her at many open track days like at Willow Springs :unibrow:

She made many a Mustang owner jealous when we were out there with our Chivies :D

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/DSC00561.jpg

[Chad-1stGen]

Chad,
Who's the hottie posing on your car on your Cardomain page? :unibrow:

Ha ha. Well like Dave said, she attends a lot of track days with Extreme Speed Track Events.

Her name is Nicole Rayburn. She is a model and actress. Here is a pic for the viewing masses...

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894085_large.jpg

[Cris@JCG]

I have never wanted to be a rocker panel more in life than today!


Ha ha. Well like Dave said, she attends a lot of track days with Extreme Speed Track Events.

Her name is Nicole Rayburn. She is a model and actress. Here is a pic for the viewing masses...

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894085_large.jpg

[waynieZ]

Very Nice, both the car and Nicole! Your doing some nice up grades.

[DriverzInc]

I have never wanted to be a rocker panel more in life than today!

:lol:

[senor_Camaro]

did you ever end up fixing your suspension issue?, i remember you had started a post on pro-touring about understeer issues with suspension.

[Payton King]

Nothing like taking a running and driving car and making it non-driveable. LOL

[Chad-1stGen]

did you ever end up fixing your suspension issue?, i remember you had started a post on pro-touring about understeer issues with suspension.

Fix? No. The addition of an adjustable rear sway bar did help. It didn't make me significantly faster or significantly reduce pushing in slower speed tight corners like you find on an autocross. However, higher speed corners it made a signifcant difference and overall made the car a lot more fun on the road course.

I really wanted to pursue fitting a larger tire up front which led me down the path of the TCI camaro subframe. Things kind of snowballed from there...

[Chad-1stGen]

Nothing like taking a running and driving car and making it non-driveable. LOL

Don't remind me :(

I got to drive it one last time yesterday. I picked the car up from Pomona Valley Customs who did the tub work. Rather than trailer it home I decided to get my redneck on and drove it with no rear shocks. Actually wasn't a big deal to drive without shocks but I'd never want to do a lot of cornering that way.

TCI parts are supposed to be ready the end of this week I think. I may start further disassembling the car this weekend.

[Chad-1stGen]

Like all projects this is moving slower than I'd like. I've made a little bit of progress thanks to help from friends this weekend. Thanks Doug!

Here are a couple more pics of the finished tubs from the trunk. Still haven't gotten under the car to take pics of the frame mods yet.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894098_large.jpg

Shot in the pic makes the paint look a lot rougher than reality.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894099_large.jpg

Pulling the perfectly good running fuel injected ZZ4...
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894101_large.jpg

Doug, hardcore motor man. Notice we are pulling the motor in the alley behind my house (no room in garage). Go redneck style!
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894102_large.jpg

My buddy Jason isn't a car guy but always willing to help me out.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894103_large.jpg

Engine bay starting to look lonely
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894095_large.jpg

And the motor is out. Still need to get it ready for the new buyer. You can see the bottom of it's replacement peaking in the background.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894094_large.jpg

TCI has my front subframe ready to be picked up so I need to get back out there and take the subframe out once I get the old motor out of the garage.

Here is the champ pan I'm throwing on my new mast motor. if anyone needs an LH8 pan let me know.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894097_large.jpg

Hoping to modify a brand new rock valley tank for use with Carl's vaporworx system. The rockvalley tank will probably need a new tray and it has a cylindrical baffle 360* around the fuel pump assembly that will need to be cut out.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894096_large.jpg

[Ron in SoCal]

Hey Chad - Are you running exhaust dumps? With your mini tub, the new rear suspension and that unnotched tank can you route exhaust over your axle?

[Chad-1stGen]

Hey Chad - Are you running exhaust dumps? With your mini tub, the new rear suspension and that unnotched tank can you route exhaust over your axle?

Good question. I have no idea yet. I'd prefer not to use dumps after experiencing them. I'd rather have tail pipes.

Does the notched tank make a big difference even if no longer running leaf springs and instead using a coil over set up?

[Ron in SoCal]

Good question. I have no idea yet. I'd prefer not to use dumps after experiencing them. I'd rather have tail pipes.

Does the notched tank make a big difference even if no longer running leaf springs and instead using a coil over set up?

I really cant speak to the TCI Torque arm, but call 'em tomorrow and see what they say? You could always get your tank modified a la James' 'Pozzi tuned' tank, while youre already doing the other mods....

[Jr]

Don't remind me :(

I got to drive it one last time yesterday. I picked the car up from Pomona Valley Customs who did the tub work. Rather than trailer it home I decided to get my redneck on and drove it with no rear shocks. Actually wasn't a big deal to drive without shocks but I'd never want to do a lot of cornering that way.

TCI parts are supposed to be ready the end of this week I think. I may start further disassembling the car this weekend.

I've never heard of Pomona valley customs. Did they do good work? Would you go back?

[Vegas69]

Let me guess, Renner showed up for a photo op and will be in touch with a small project. :D :unibrow:

[Payton King]

But I would leave the sheet metal bolted up and drop the subframe out the bottom. Assemble the other with the motor and headers and roll it back in. I have done a few this way and it is much easier.

Nice progress!

[Chad-1stGen]

I've never heard of Pomona valley customs. Did they do good work? Would you go back?

I still need to inspect the frame rails. Howeve,r from the trunk view they did a great job. Yea I would go back. I actually was/am tempted to use them for the TCI parts install too. While I was there they had quite a few cool projects in the shop. A Nova II with a TCI front clip. A Nissan Z with an LS install, some 50's Buick getting bagged and dropped with a C notch in the rear frame rails. A few other cars I didn't ask about.

[Chad-1stGen]

But I would leave the sheet metal bolted up and drop the subframe out the bottom. Assemble the other with the motor and headers and roll it back in. I have done a few this way and it is much easier.

Nice progress!

I planned to leave the sheet metal intact. However I'm open to advice on how to do it. I would love to be able to roll the new clip with motor and trans bolted up but am not sure how I'd lift the body high enough to clear it while supporting everything properly? Any ideas? Without the motor it will be easy enough. It's the with motor part that is tougher.

[Chad-1stGen]

Let me guess, Renner showed up for a photo op and will be in touch with a small project. :D :unibrow:

Haha good guess but not what happened. Doug saved my bacon. I originally was going to do the work with just me and my buddy Jason bu after he was 3+ hours late I started get g worried and Doug answered my call for help. Ended up going a lot smoother with 3 people. Well except the part where we dropped the trans down with the shifter and ball still attached...

[70rs]

I planned to leave the sheet metal intact. However I'm open to advice on how to do it. I would love to be able to roll the new clip with motor and trans bolted up but am not sure how I'd lift the body high enough to clear it while supporting everything properly? Any ideas? Without the motor it will be easy enough. It's the with motor part that is tougher.

Take the front clip off as a unit (the sheet metal). Much easier that way.
Roll the old frame out,roll the new frame in, bolt the front clip back on. No lifting of the body,less chance for accidents or damage and its only a little extra work.

[KPC67]

cool car, and cool updates. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

I planned to leave the sheet metal intact. However I'm open to advice on how to do it. I would love to be able to roll the new clip with motor and trans bolted up but am not sure how I'd lift the body high enough to clear it while supporting everything properly? Any ideas? Without the motor it will be easy enough. It's the with motor part that is tougher.

Get a hold of Scott (XcYZ), thats exactly how he did it. He has a build thread on it also so you may want to dig it up.

[Flash68]

Nice work Chad. I'm sure some of your neighbors are impressed. :D

You called that a Champ pan.... does Autokraft just "rebadge" them?

[Chad-1stGen]

Take the front clip off as a unit (the sheet metal). Much easier that way.
Roll the old frame out,roll the new frame in, bolt the front clip back on. No lifting of the body,less chance for accidents or damage and its only a little extra work.

I will keep this in mind. Due to space limiations it may be easier to keep the clip bolted up to the car so I don't have to find a place to set it for any length of time.

cool car, and cool updates. :thumbsup:

Thanks! Appreciate that.

Get a hold of Scott (XcYZ), thats exactly how he did it. He has a build thread on it also so you may want to dig it up.

Cool. I will do some searches to see what I can find.

Nice work Chad. I'm sure some of your neighbors are impressed. :D

You called that a Champ pan.... does Autokraft just "rebadge" them?

Thanks Dave. Yeah Autokraft and others (such as Prodigy) just rebadges the champ pan. Advantage of buying an autocraft or prodigy pan is ease of ordering and the fact they include the correct pick up and oil filter adapter without making you search for the part numbers and buy them individually (the way Champ sells them).

[Rybar]

Take the front clip off as a unit (the sheet metal). Much easier that way.
Roll the old frame out,roll the new frame in, bolt the front clip back on. No lifting of the body,less chance for accidents or damage and its only a little extra work.

I would not recommend this, it's very hard to re-align the front sheet metal.

Otherwise it looks good Chad :thumbsup:

[Cris@JCG]

I would drop the sub-frame from underneth the car..



I would not recommend this, it's very hard to re-align the front sheet metal.

Otherwise it looks good Chad :thumbsup:

[mike67cam]

Chad,

Any updates?

[Chad-1stGen]

Chad,

Any updates?

I've got LOTS of parts in my garage and house. Picked up most of the parts from TCI last Saturday which got me motivated. Disconnected most of the things I need to unbold the subframe and drop it.

However, in the meantime I can share this very timely video. My car will be on the 2011 October issue of Popular Hotrodding.

Pay attention to the last thing I say in this video lol!

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/car_videos/index.html#ooid=JwdXlrMjrP2hPNEWCSSlNFYEUB5LPpv9

I was supposed to join my Dad and Brother at the Reno Air Races this weekend as I'm there most years. However, after the horrific crash I cancelled my flight and may work on the car or head out to Buttonwillow instead. I'm super super thankfull my family is ok. My Dad and Brother were about 150 feet from the crash. When the plane came down both of them dove for cover and banged themselves up pretty good diving for cover. Bro was shaking for about 30 minutes as he thought for sure he was dead. I still can't believe it. Both of them have seen fatal wrecks at Reno but never anything like this let alone almost being injured/killed as well.

EDIT: Found a pic of the cover. Sadly it doesn't exactly feature my car a whole lot but I guess that is what happens when you car is used for a cover picture but not featured in the mag. Still, it was a neat experience.

http://covers.magazine-agent.com/images/cover_image.aspx?i=cover0048568.jpg&h=650

[Chad-1stGen]

Here's the version I wished they used for the final cover :(

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894104_large.jpg

[CrossRamRich]

Your hair looks GREAT!!!!!! you are a natural.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[mexMan]

There's something wrong in that picture... the shop is like REALLY clean, but there is no woman there.

[waynieZ]

Chad first tihing I'm glad your family is ok, I saw pictures of the crash it was unbelievable. The car looks great on that cover maybe next time they'll use it.

[John68rs]

Glad your family is ok! Your car looks awesome man. Congrats on PHR! I'm eager to see more of your update. Thanks for the build thread.

[CrossRamRich]

Your hair looks GREAT!!!!!! you are a natural.:thumbsup: :cheers:

I meant the video, I know your not the cover dude. Would have been better with Nicole!

[67zo6Camaro]

Chad you dirty dog... I didn't know PHR was the photo shoot. To Cool.

[DFRESH]

Media Whore, just like your brother Carl with the fast 68.

[CAMAROBOY69]

Chad, I havent read any of the progress threads in a long time. Your car is coming along real nice. Its also great to hear that you were able to get some track time. And congrats on the photo shoot.

[CarlC]

Media Whore, just like your brother Carl with the fast 68.

Should I mention that I needed to get Chad's phone number from you?

[Chad-1stGen]

I finally have an update!

There has been huuuuuge delays in getting wheels for my car. I got caught up in the Fikse disaster and switched to Forgeline. Sadly, I got caught up in another disaster with them, so they were nearly two months late also. All said and done it has taken me 6 months to get my new wheels, which are scheduled to arrive at the shop tomorrow. With the wheels I will be able to finally order my custom width 12 bolt.

In the mean time all the old parts are out:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/70/45/15530754_large.jpg

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/70/35/15530753_large.jpg


Front sub frame and most of the torque arm parts are powder coated chassis black. Front sub is bolted in with the LS3, trans and headers.
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/70/90/15530709_large.jpg

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/70/11/15530711_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/70/21/15530712_large.jpg

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/70/41/15530714_large.jpg

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/70/70/15530707_large.jpg

Crazy busy week at work this week so I won't actually get to go see the car in person until next week :( Very interested to see how some of this has turned out in person.

[Bryce]

Looking good. I really like that subframe.

[Flash68]

Atta boy Chad. Nice to see progress.... man it's been a lot of wheel issues recently... sorry you got caught up in that.

Now Forgeline too?

[CAMAROBOY69]

Looking great. Sorry to hear about the 6 month delay wheel issue.

[chr2002ca]

Congrats on the progress Chad. Looking sharp! Can't wait to see it in person. Interesting story about the wheels. I guess no company is exempt from the infamous wheel delay issue.

[Chad-1stGen]

Been ordering more parts recently. Rather than trying to adapt my current exhaust I ordered a flowmaster kit since it appears the TCI cross members are notched for the Flowmaster kit and any tail pipes need to be custom anyhow. Somehow I think I may miss my old quiet exhaust. We'll see...

Brett at Fab53 finished up the Vaporworx retrofit install on my Rockvalley Stainless tank. I'm looking forward to getting that bad boy installed in the car.

And I finally got my dyno sheet from Mast Motorsports.
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/94/16/15614961_large.jpg

Certainly plenty of cars on here with a lot more power but this will be the highest power motor I've ever had.

[Flash68]

Chad, that's great man... keep pluggin away. Your car is gonna be badder and better than ever when it's done. I know the waiting sucks and you've had your share of tribulations... but hang in there and you can see the light soon! :thumbsup:

That motor is gonna be a great street and track motor. Awesome torque curve.

[sik68]

Awesome numbers, Chad! 600hp is a LOT of power any way you slice it. That's supercar territory. The car is going to be killer!

[67zo6Camaro]

I just thought you might enjoy some pictures of your new Vaporworx retro fit gas tank setup.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Vaporworx%20installation/IMG_2590.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Vaporworx%20installation/IMG_2643.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Vaporworx%20installation/IMG_2652.jpg

Thanks for letting me work on your project

Brett at Fab53

[Flash68]

Brett, that looks great dude. :thumbsup:

[CarlC]

Looks great! Very nice fabrication and welding.

Suggestion: Next time, seat the #10-32 fuel line support plug all the way in the hole and weld around the flange. That way it does not stick out. Just flip the cushion clamp around and it will seat flat along the tank face.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/653/dsc01958w.jpg

[67zo6Camaro]

Looks great! Very nice fabrication and welding.

Suggestion: Next time, seat the #10-32 fuel line support plug all the way in the hole and weld around the flange. That way it does not stick out. Just flip the cushion clamp around and it will seat flat along the tank face.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/653/dsc01958w.jpg

Yes I saw that, but also noticed that you have less room for a wrench. So I put my own spin on it knowing what a pita it can be getting wrench clearance sometimes.

Loved this setup so much that I will be doing a write up on how to do the install in the RockValley tank soon with lots of pictures. Can't wait to do one in my tank.

[67zo6Camaro]

ops... I almost forgot.

Thanks for the compliment Hollywood!

:thumbsup:

[67zo6Camaro]

Here are a few pictures of the mouting variation you speak of Carl.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Vaporworx%20installation/IMG_2653.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Vaporworx%20installation/IMG_2655.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Fab53%20Vaporworx%20installation/IMG_2654.jpg

[Nessumsar]

She is going to be a beast Chad. Id be worth to get a ride along to see the look on your face the first time you lay into it.:wow:

Good stuff Brett, its always nice to get a line wrench on those pretty fittings!

[Chad-1stGen]

Thanks guys! I'm starting to get some excitement about the car again with progress coming along. I'm stoked we finally have the rear end ordered. Wheels successfully arrived back at Forgeline today so I can now work out that with them too.

@ Jon ha ha, I hadn't thought about it much but its gonna be a whole different world laying down this kind of power. Can't promise you the first ride but there will be opportunities.

@ Brett. Sweet pics man. Can't wait to pick up the tank from ya. Will most likely come by tonight if you will be around as I'm doing a run out to PVC tomorrow with the Flowmaster exhaust and gas tank.

[waynieZ]

Very Nice Chad, this is going to be one fun ride. Tank looks great.

[Chad-1stGen]

Well I picked up the car today!! I've been debating if I want to make a thread here or not about the experience. Most of my buds know the trouble I've been having with the shop and they didn't fail to disappoint when picking up the car. While the shop and I may not have seen eye to eye on what "additional" work vs what was included in the original quote, the thing not in dispute was the complete installation of the subframe and torque arm and mount the engine and trans in the car.

With that in mind when I picked the car up I was sad to discover the following list of problems:

- Front subframe not completely bolted in (Even more annoying that everytime I visited the car in the last 3 months I kept pointing out that these bolts were missing and other little things asking when they would be completed)
- A arms installed incorrectly in subframe (washers not inserted in correct spots) but will require removing the coil over to fix.
-Trans tunnel cut but not patched (never told me they would be cutting the tunnel
- Cheapo paint job on the rear end which has already been scratched to bare metal in spots from bending the brake lines
- Drum parking brake installed incorrectly so they are dragging pretty bad
- Inner fenders not clearanced to the subframe correctly (just needed a minor cut or bending) but instead they have cut into the sub and scratched off the powder coat
- Inner fender on passenger side left in direct contact with the upper A arm.
- fire wall hole for the wiring harness cut without permission (instead of the original 2" hole I know have a 2"x3" hole
- the two links in the torque arm were installed incorrectly and the sheet metal was not notched for correct installation
- Upper cross member for the panhard bar and coil overs in the rear had bolts on each side installed without an washers (something I had pointed out twice in previous visits but never fixed).
- Hydraulic clutch line was installed before the brake lines and steering column. When they installed the steering column and brake lines they trapped the clutch line causing it to be wrapped tight around the steering shaft in an unsafe manner
- At least 4 spots along the drivers rocker panel the paint was chipped down to bare metal.
- Missing bolts from the motor mounts on both sides (now I have to decide if I want to life the motor out so I can check if the bolts hidden behind the SBC mount are installed or not...
- Missing hardware for my gas filler neck (why did they even remove these, wtf?) and possibly my ebrake set up (they didn't reinstall the cables).

I didn't know all of these things until after leaving the shop with my car on the trailer. The shop and I parted on bad terms to do what was considered "included" in their estimate. However, I was pleasantly surprised that on some of the things (a arm parts, two link brackets) they were willing to stand by their work and have me bring the car back. Am I crazy for not wanting these people to work on my car any longer? There is a clear lack of attention to detail on the installation of these parts. Why would I want to give them the opportunity to mess up more stuff?

I'm incredibly depressed about the quality of work performed but at the same time I'm so relieved to have my car out of there. Instead of taking the car home I decided to drop it off at Fab53 so Brett could bail me out and fix a lot of the shoddy work and mistakes.

[LM7_67]

dang :( sorry to hear all that Chad.

you definitely took it to the right place though. your car may end up with a Fab53 sticker on it, but it'll be done right.

[Track Junky]

Wow Chad, thats irritating to hear. Makes me wonder how these monkey's stay in business. Glad bret has the car now. I've seen some great stuff come out of his shop just from this site. :thumbsup:

[DOOM]

Chad you did the right thing! To many mistakes! You will never be happy!

[waynieZ]

Sorry to hear this. Atleast the car is under your control now.

[Chad-1stGen]

Thanks guys


Sorry to hear this. Atleast the car is under your control now.

This is so true. It feels so good to have the car under my control and close by.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

sorry to hear about this Chad....I'd bring the car back to them later. Pull a burn out in their driveway then into the shop finish it off with a couple donuts in the middle of it.

Glad to hear Fab53 will get it right.

What shop are we going to bash badly?

[FETorino]

What shop did the shoddy work?

[Flash68]

What shop are we going to bash badly?

What shop did the shoddy work?

I'm not saying anything but if you look at post #2 you might figure it out. :_paranoid

[FETorino]

I'm not saying anything but if you look at post #2 you might figure it out. :_paranoid

I know who did his tubs but I didn't see him saying he took it back there for the rest of the work so I didn't want to jump to the wrong conclusion.

[Flash68]

I know who did his tubs but I didn't see him saying he took it back there for the rest of the work so I didn't want to jump to the wrong conclusion.

Good point... I've already said too much! :willy:

[DFRESH]

Keep moving forward Chad----It's in great hands with BC at Fab 53 for sure. He will treat it like it's his and you don't have to worry, ever---. Just make sure he know's it must be ready for the Sept event at Button Willow---also because there's someone else you guys know that will need to have a Torque Arm and Rear end to put in a 69 in the next couple of months---

D

[Spiffav8]

That blows! At least you can breath easy knowing it's in good hands now.

Stay positive man!

[Chad-1stGen]

Thanks for all the kind words guys.

It does feel good not worrying about the quality of the work with it now being at Fab53. I'm still stressing about just getting the thing drivable again. I can't stand how long its been!!!

I know who did his tubs but I didn't see him saying he took it back there for the rest of the work so I didn't want to jump to the wrong conclusion.

Same shop. They reeled me in with a good job on the tubs but the work went way way downhill on the rest.

[FETorino]

Thanks for all the kind words guys.





Same shop. They reeled me in with a good job on the tubs but the work went way way downhill on the rest.

Good to know F those guys.......

[67zo6Camaro]

Here are a few pictures of Chad's Camaro in the process of getting sorted out.

Just mocking up the ride height and starting to adjust the suspension to fit the new wheels.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2848.jpg

The front will have about a 3.5 inch clearance at the header collector. The front suspension will be adjusted up about 1.25 inches to achieve this ride height.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2849.jpg

The rear will have about 4.25 inches of clearance at the new TCI rear frame connector and lower rear suspension link bar. Also the Flowmaster exhaust with have a similar 4.25 inch clearance. The rear suspension will be adjusted up about 1 inch to achieve this ride height and the lower rear TCI link bars will be shorten to center the rims in the wheel well opening.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2850.jpg

[67zo6Camaro]

There are several other adjustment issues and some clearancing that I will be doing.

One of the major issues to sort out is the tunnel clearance for the T56 transmission. It is currently touching the top of the tunnel in several spots. Some of the wires are pinched and some of the transmission case castings lugs are almost touching the side of the tunnel.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2815.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2818.jpg

[Track Junky]

Great job Bret. Looks like Chad may be joining us at Buttonwillow after all. :thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

Man, that looks nice. Chrome and red make a killer color combo.

[Flash68]

Fab53... fixing other people's work since 2011.... :lol:

Brett, we know you'll get this thing dialed in for Chad. :thumbsup:

[WicKeD_SS]

Looking very nice! :thumbsup: What size are the fronts? 18x?

[Chad-1stGen]

Looking very nice! :thumbsup: What size are the fronts? 18x?

Fronts are 18x9
Rears are 18x11

[67zo6Camaro]

There are 4 locations at the front inner fenders that will need to be trimmed for clearance to the frame.... Actually one spot hits the passenger top upper A-arm.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2847.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2846.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2845.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2843.jpg

[67zo6Camaro]

Here are a few pictures of the Opps. See if you can spot them. It happens and that's why its a good idea to check your work.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2835.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2827.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2830.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2841.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Chads%2068%20Camaro/IMG_2823.jpg

[Vegas69]

This is exactly whey I don't let ANYONE touch my car unless it's absolutely neccessary. As the old saying goes, "If you want it done right, do it yourself" In this genre, it's never been a more factual statement.

With that being said, I'd let Brett work on my car. :thumbsup:

[makoshark]

This is exactly whey I don't let ANYONE touch my car unless it's absolutely neccessary. As the old saying goes, "If you want it done right, do it yourself" In this genre, it's never been a more factual statement.

With that being said, I'd let Brett work on my car. :thumbsup:

I couldn't agree with you more Vegas. I dealt with a similar debacle that cost me over 5 g's and nothing to show for but shoty work. My car is safe and sound in my possession now.

After seeing some of the high-quality work done by a handful of shops on here, I would sleep well knowing my car was in there hands.

Sucks you had to deal with this Chad, but at least now you are on the right track now and will have your car finished soon and done right this time. Car looks awesome with those wheels!

[Jr]

Why does the frme not line up with the inner fender?

[Track Junky]

Wow........unfrickenbelievable. Chad, your in great hands with Bret :thumbsup:

[Chad-1stGen]

Why does the frme not line up with the inner fender?

The TCI subframe upper bar is much higher than the stock subframe. Nornally the inner fenders ride on top of the stock subframe. With the TCI frame being narrower and the second bar being higher the fenders make slight contact. My fenders have 40 years of tweaking on them. No idea if you would have to clearance virgin perfect fenders or not (guessing not).

[Vince@Meanstreets]

its hard to find a shop that will put quality before profit these days.

[Ron in SoCal]

My AME sub (and most C6 based I would guess) required inner fender clearancing in he same spot....

You're in good hands Chad! :thumbsup:

[mdprovee]

Chad,

Sorry you had to go thru the bad to get to the good. Looks like you are in good hands now.

[CarlC]

Zero attention or checking on life critical items. Yikes.

Fab53 has your back Chad. I owe you a phone call too.

[Flash68]

There's gotta some be some good progress by now.... :unibrow:

[Chad-1stGen]

There's gotta some be some good progress by now.... :unibrow:

Ok Dave has motivated me to jump on here and give an update. I was still so sick and worked up over the previous shop's experience and delays on the car it was literally keeping me awake at night so I took a break from the car world.

However, the good news is that Dave's post was timely. Two nights ago I stopped by Fab53 to pick up some parts we weren't going to use and check out the progress on the car. Brett has the trans out of the car and all the second skin sound deadening scrapped off the trans tunnel and is in mid surgery. I'm glad Brett scrapped off the sound deadening and not me lol. He was also about to start scalloping the corners of the fuel tank and running a ss hard fuel line up to the front.

Yesterday I did some parts acquisition which really relit the fire on the project for me. These are some of the last bigger ticket items I needed.

Sexy new shoes! Toyo R888 tires. My old set up was the standard first gen 245 front and 275 rear. New set up is 275 front and 315 rear. Yes!!

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/07/60/15737006_large.jpg
http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/96/89/15736998_large.jpg

How about a very sick looking aluminum driveline from Inland Empire Drive Line.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/96/79/15736997_large.jpg
This thing is beefy... I wish I could weld like that too...
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/07/80/15737008_large.jpg

Sal and the gang at TCI has been the vendor that consistently delivers on this project. Always fun to stop by their shop even if I couldn't stay long. I picked up new springs front and rear to increase the spring rate to what they run on the TCI test car. Also, we are swapping out the rear two link bars with ones that have Johnny Joints and will allow Brett to get the rear end perfectly centered.
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/07/01/15737010_large.jpg

Double adjustable coil over goodness :drool:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/07/21/15737012_large.jpg

I can't wait to drive this car!!

[Track Junky]

About time!! Now get back to work and let Bret do his thing. If you dont make Buttonwillow you'll never hear the end of it from me!! :lol:

[Flash68]

Oh man that's some eye candy there Chad. It's really getting closer... happy for you man :thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

R888s + Johnny Joints - serious bidness :lateral:

[Chad-1stGen]

About time!! Now get back to work and let Bret do his thing. If you dont make Buttonwillow you'll never hear the end of it from me!! :lol:

I know I know... I hope to make many events before September Buttonwillow! Before I tore the car down I started to make a track event almost as frequently as once a month. I hope to get back into that. I'm also dying to just get the car on the road so the debugging can begin.

Oh man that's some eye candy there Chad. It's really getting closer... happy for you man :thumbsup:

Thanks dude. It was exciting to pick up those final "big" pieces. Still tons of little stuff but its a lot more manageable now! I dropped off all that stuff at Brett's last night. He was pretty motivated last night to get the car wrapped up enough to free up his lift for another car. Won't hear any complaints from me on that!! :yes: :unibrow:

R888s + Johnny Joints - serious bidness :lateral:

Haha Ron, yeah I'm starting to feel a bit of the pressure from all the "serious bidness" parts going into this car. I used to have a laundry list of reasons I could use as excuses if I wasn't fast. I'm pretty sure that list is going to be pretty small once done... as in maybe only one item left... the driver! ha ha

[Flash68]

Haha Ron, yeah I'm starting to feel a bit of the pressure from all the "serious bidness" parts going into this car. I used to have a laundry list of reasons I could use as excuses if I wasn't fast. I'm pretty sure that list is going to be pretty small once done... as in maybe only one item left... the driver! ha ha

Embrace that pressure! :D

It's gonna be fun and I think you'll be better prepared than you think. Remember, lots of fools are getting on the track for the first time with big power. You have many days under your belt with that stockish 350. I think that can only help serve you in the safe "growth" and learning your new car. :thumbsup:

[Rybar]

Good to hear on yanking the car from the other shop and getting it to Fab53. That clutch line around the steering column yikes!!

Your gonna love the R888's they are an awesome tire.

And oh your new wheels look awesome mocked up.

Your not far off Chad, keep at it and it will get done. :thumbsup:

[Chad-1stGen]

Nothing like a text message Sat night showing progress on your car!!

Teaser cell phone pics

315mm of meaty goodness out back
http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/41/93/15741439_large.jpg


275 of meaty goodness up front. Front fenders will need to be rolled and inner fenders clearanced to make this work.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/41/34/15741443_large.jpg

I can't wait to see this in person!

[Track Junky]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Roadbuster]

Looking good Chad!

[72Z/28]

Nice progress:thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Chad, what backspace are you running with the front wheels?

[Chad-1stGen]

Thanks guys. I just left Brett's. Car looks good with more rubber and lower ride height in the rear. I took some pics with a better Camera so well see how they turned out. Brett has found some more Gremlins that well have to overcome.


Chad, what backspace are you running with the front wheels?

Gaetano the front are 18x9 with 5.75" BS. Due to the full mounting pad fiasco I don't get much outer lip. I do have over 3" of caliper clearance though...

[LM7_67]

love seeing the progress Chad! see you out on the track!

[Flash68]

Brett has found some more Gremlins that well have to overcome.





Oh no. Hopefully not expensive or time consuming!

[Chad-1stGen]

Oh no. Hopefully not expensive or time consuming!

Well the TCI kit positioned the axle farther back in the wheel well than center. I don't know if this is just because of the 12 bolt version prototype. We moved it forward to better center it and got new two link rods with the Johnny joints to accomplish it. It may be slightly too forward now but the torque arm down bars may hit the floor pan. Brett is going to try and adjust the axle back maybe ~0.5" This also had the unintended consequence of putting the shocks out of alignment with the mounts. I know Brett can fab whatever is needed to get around these things, but it is more time before the car hits the road.

Then when he pulled my trans he found out that PVC used SAE bolts on my metric LS bellhousing. Fingers crossed that Brett's retapping the holds to the correct 10mm is all we needed and that the bellhousing isn't compromised.

But for some good news here are some better pics of the car at the planned ride height. Front and rear wheel wells are centered at this height. May raise the rear a tad to facilitate more shock travel. We'll see.

I got a little picture happy lol

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/66/15743266_large.jpg

http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/16/15743261_large.jpg

You may notice inf the two pics above that the drivers side front wheel is a bit back in the wheel well. Car hasn't been aligned yet. Passenger side is fine so hoping it is just an alignment issue. I want to be able to run at least 5* of caster and not worry about fender clearance at the back of the wheel.

I've already gotten used to 275 up front. It doesn't even look that big in this pic with those 315s peaking out back.
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/37/15743273_large.jpg

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/07/15743270_large.jpg

http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/47/15743274_large.jpg

So that concludes this weekend's update.

[Track Junky]

Wow Chad, car is already sending a message..........I see some serious attitude in that thing :thumbsup:

[Chad-1stGen]

Wow Chad, car is already sending a message..........I see some serious attitude in that thing :thumbsup:

Thanks dude! Brett was saying the same thing. He thinks it looks much meaner than before. I think the front is close to the same ride height as before but the rear is much lower. The car used to have a slight rake and now is level. And having a few more inches of rubber in the back helps.

[Flash68]

Chad, while more issues discovered by that hacker shop definitely sucks, it feels really good knowing you are feeling good seeing the car looking so killer like that. Looking bad ass man. You make me wanna have a pro touring car. :lol:

:thumbsup:

You leavin that 327 emblem on there? :D

[Matt@BOS]

Wow! the wide wheels and tires completely changed the look of that car. It's looking good parked out in the driveway in front of the (t)Ron mobile :lol:

Matt

[Tom.A]

Looks great. I saw your car briefly at the Hotchkis event last summer and it looked good but now it will be on a much higher level with all these goodies.

[Chad-1stGen]

Thanks guys. Honestly, positive feedback on the site helps cool the pain of some of the hickups in the project lol.

I tried to find a pic of V2.0 to compare to some of the pics I took today. This is the best I could find after a quick search. Different cameras and angles but you can see how much different the rear of the car looks compared to before.

Before:
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/33/43/15743334_large.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/07/15743270_large.jpg

[Vegas69]

Lookin KILLER

[Chad-1stGen]

Chad, while more issues discovered by that hacker shop definitely sucks, it feels really good knowing you are feeling good seeing the car looking so killer like that. Looking bad ass man. You make me wanna have a pro touring car. :lol:

:thumbsup:

You leavin that 327 emblem on there? :D

LoL. You had a PT car and changed it into a race car. Grass is greener man. I sometimes think how much easier it would be if this was a track car and I didn't have to worry about comfort lol.

BTW I keep forgetting to bring them over to Brett's to compare the size but I bought two 427 emblems already that attach with the 3M double sided tape. I want them to be about the same size as the factory 327 even if they aren't the same font. The 427 emblems I picked up looked short in person but we'll see.

[Rybar]

That rear shot looks awesome, and I think the stance looks nailed to me. :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

It finally hit me why the car looks so much more aggressive to me , aside from the stance - No front bumper. You HAVE to leave it off!

Matt

[Flash68]

It finally hit me why the car looks so much more aggressive to me , aside from the stance - No front bumper. You HAVE to leave it off!

Matt

gee ya think?

[intocarss]

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/07/15743270_large.jpg OH HELL YEAH!! :woot: :woot:

[72Z/28]

Thanks guys. Honestly, positive feedback on the site helps cool the pain of some of the hickups in the project lol.

I tried to find a pic of V2.0 to compare to some of the pics I took today. This is the best I could find after a quick search. Different cameras and angles but you can see how much different the rear of the car looks compared to before.

Before:
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/33/43/15743334_large.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/07/15743270_large.jpg

Love the stance man, glad that things are working out better now. Speaking of the position of the front wheels, I have got Speedtech front clip complete kit, and the front wheels on both sides are positioned farther back in the wheel well than center like yours. I don't know if it's an alignment issue or it is something normal with Speedtech front clip kit.

[Flash68]

LoL. You had a PT car and changed it into a race car. Grass is greener man. I sometimes think how much easier it would be if this was a track car and I didn't have to worry about comfort lol.

BTW I keep forgetting to bring them over to Brett's to compare the size but I bought two 427 emblems already that attach with the 3M double sided tape. I want them to be about the same size as the factory 327 even if they aren't the same font. The 427 emblems I picked up looked short in person but we'll see.

Hey man I woulda done the big RTTC 80 mile cruise if they woulda had it the day BEFORE the event like it shoulda been. :D

I'm diggin the 427 emblem idea. :woot:

So... once this thing is ready and delivered to you, how long before you schedule a track day? 1 week? 2 weeks? :unibrow:

[WILWAXU]

Chad, Great work, the car looks awesome! :thumbsup:

[Chad-1stGen]

It finally hit me why the car looks so much more aggressive to me , aside from the stance - No front bumper. You HAVE to leave it off!

Matt

Hmmm we'll see once everything is done. I always kinda liked having the front bumper and it hides all the paint chips in the lower valence lol :) But I'll consider it.

Hey man I woulda done the big RTTC 80 mile cruise if they woulda had it the day BEFORE the event like it shoulda been. :D

I'm diggin the 427 emblem idea. :woot:

So... once this thing is ready and delivered to you, how long before you schedule a track day? 1 week? 2 weeks? :unibrow:

That timing would be pretty good if the motor was broken in. I'd say the day the motor is declared broken in is the day I'll be booking a track day!

[mdprovee]

Chad,

I really like the stance, and the 275s up front. Looks killer!!

[skatinjay27]

holy crap that car to sooo f-in mean now!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[srh3trinity]

The car went from good to great. Stance is everything when it comes to the look.

[DFRESH]

OH HELL YEAH!! :woot: :woot:

Man, that looks freaking awesome!!! You've got to be pumped! That thing has got some serious attitude going on. It looks hyper aggressive at that ride height and that much tire. That is sweet bro---congrats. I've been out of the office, but let's get together this Friday if you are free for lunch.

D

[Chad-1stGen]

Man, that looks freaking awesome!!! You've got to be pumped! That thing has got some serious attitude going on. It looks hyper aggressive at that ride height and that much tire. That is sweet bro---congrats. I've been out of the office, but let's get together this Friday if you are free for lunch.

D

I hope you being out of the office was because you were basking in the sun on vacation somewhere. I am pretty excited to have the car on the ground again, even if it has to go back on the lift to finish stuff underneath. That rear shot was definitely my favorite that I took ha ha. Friday may be a no go. I'm trying to do a half day and wakeboard in the morning then go to work so I wont be around for lunch. Maybe tomorrow if you are around.

[bonecrrusher]

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/07/15743270_large.jpg

Do you have this in a bigger image size?

[intocarss]

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/07/15743270_large.jpg

Do you have this in a bigger image size?BE CAREFULL!! A bigger pic may cause... Dizziness, Hyper ventilation, and an Accelerated heart rate :willy:

[Flash68]

I'm stoked to see this car!

[Track Junky]

I was expecting to see an update......Whats the latest Chad..We gonna see you at Buttonwillow.....

[Chad-1stGen]

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/07/15743270_large.jpg

Do you have this in a bigger image size?

Yup. Original pic is actually huge. How big do you want lol?

BE CAREFULL!! A bigger pic may cause... Dizziness, Hyper ventilation, and an Accelerated heart rate :willy:

Nice! I'm hoping to reproduce those same symptoms when I drive it the first time!!!

I'm stoked to see this car!

Thanks man. I'll see about taking a page out of your playbook and getting some quick video once there is something to video lol.

I was expecting to see an update......Whats the latest Chad..We gonna see you at Buttonwillow.....

Not much of an update Gaetano. Brett's been pretty swamped with work that was ahead of me and there turned out to be a lot more work to be done to my car than we originally anticipated when I dropped the car off. There is still work I'd love for Brett to do to the car but after a heart to heart conversation with Brett on timing I've decided to move some of the work to Best of Show Coach Works in order to speed up completion. The car has been down for OVER 9 MONTHS so where possible I want to speed things up to get the car to drivable again!!

Current plan is to pick up the car Monday and transport it over to BOS.

I'm sure there are a host of challenges between now and the car moving under its own power but I would really like that to happen by mid June at the latest. May not be done by then but it will mean a lot to me if I can get a bunch of the little stuff done I've scheduled for myself. I still need to fully plumb the cooling system on the motor, wire everything up which in some respects having a complete MAST harness makes harder. Not to mention reassemble a bunch of stuff.

[Flash68]

2 things.

9 months ain't nuttin (but it sucks). :D

Is BOS able to commit to cranking this out? (I'm sure you discussed it).

[Chad-1stGen]

2 things.

9 months ain't nuttin (but it sucks). :D

Is BOS able to commit to cranking this out? (I'm sure you discussed it).

9 months feels like an eternity to me lol. Especially, when I never dreamed it would take this long. I honestly thought at least as far as shop work was involved that I'd be done in December, worst case March. But then the wheel fiasco happened so much of the delay is due to that and not any of the shops I've worked with. This is the longest the car has been undrivable and out of my possession since I bought it in 2006 and even then I had the car drivable 7 months after purchase.

Dick hasn't seen the car yet so until he does I don't think its fair for him to commit 100% to anything. However, I asked him about removing the inner fenders and doing all the work on those, the alignment, finishing fabing the trans tunnel, notching the fuel tank. He seemed pretty confident they'd knock out all that stuff in a week. Everything I've seen and everyone I've talked to has had nothing but good things to say about BOS so I'm feeling good about it.

[chr2002ca]

Chad, the car looks awesome. Congrats on the improvements. Can't wait to see it again in person. I'm going through my 2.0 build right now and you're way ahead of me. I've been following your thread closely and I understand your frustrations. Seems like you're getting over the hump now though and you're on the final stretch. :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Sounds good Chad, I'm wishing you the best of luck moving forward...Hope all moves smoothly :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

9 months feels like an eternity to me lol. Especially, when I never dreamed it would take this long. I honestly thought at least as far as shop work was involved that I'd be done in December, worst case March. But then the wheel fiasco happened so much of the delay is due to that and not any of the shops I've worked with. This is the longest the car has been undrivable and out of my possession since I bought it in 2006 and even then I had the car drivable 7 months after purchase.

Dick hasn't seen the car yet so until he does I don't think its fair for him to commit 100% to anything. However, I asked him about removing the inner fenders and doing all the work on those, the alignment, finishing fabing the trans tunnel, notching the fuel tank. He seemed pretty confident they'd knock out all that stuff in a week. Everything I've seen and everyone I've talked to has had nothing but good things to say about BOS so I'm feeling good about it.

I hear ya man.. you and Doug were the guys that influenced me in really trying to do the same -- keep the car on the road/track as much as possible. But then you went and broke your own rule. :D But any one of us would have done the same with your situation.

That's great about BOS. We all know their quality and abilities - I was just surprised they could jump on it immediately and knock it out. Best of luck dude. No matter what happens, you're almost there. :lateral:

[Bryan O]

Current plan is to pick up the car Monday and transport it over to BOS.

Saw your car today. Awesome. :thumbsup:

Better keep an eye on your wheels. My son Trevor might put 'em on his '67 while your not looking. :lol:

Welcome to the family. :cheers:

[Richio1]

Best of luck Chad. Car is looking great. I saw it at the GG show in Peasanton when you all road tripped up. Your car is looking awesome now. Way more aggressive. Stay focused on the prize brother.

That what I keep telling myself as I feel your pain. My 3 month repaint and minitubs turned into 6 months and now in Nov. will be 3 years. WTH? That's a whole other story. Anyways, just remember the wait will be well worth it once we have our babies back and the time away will be a distant thought as you are ripping through the road course.

Keep the updates coming as it is therapy for the rest of us. :willy:

[Chad-1stGen]

Saw your car today. Awesome. :thumbsup:

Better keep an eye on your wheels. My son Trevor might put 'em on his '67 while your not looking. :lol:

Welcome to the family. :cheers:

Ha ha thanks for the welcome! You weren't there while I was dropping the car off were ya? I didn't meat everyone that helped unload it off the trailer. The wheels do look pretty good right now heh. Though they are the biggest reason my car has taken so much longer than expected. I believe the wheels are officially cursed so Trevor be warned!!

Best of luck Chad. Car is looking great. I saw it at the GG show in Peasanton when you all road tripped up. Your car is looking awesome now. Way more aggressive. Stay focused on the prize brother.

That what I keep telling myself as I feel your pain. My 3 month repaint and minitubs turned into 6 months and now in Nov. will be 3 years. WTH? That's a whole other story. Anyways, just remember the wait will be well worth it once we have our babies back and the time away will be a distant thought as you are ripping through the road course.

Keep the updates coming as it is therapy for the rest of us. :willy:

Whoa, 3 months into 3 years? Speaking of therapy it does help hearing I'm not the only one that gets way sidetracked lol! Doug and I were talking about that drive up to Pleasanton last week. Will have to do that again!!

[DFRESH]

So Chad, when you get it back from BOS, what will be left to do? It sounds like you will plumb the cooling system and wire the car? May I make a suggesstion if that's the case? Let BOS do that---have them get the car running since it's there. You'll be way, way ahead in my opinion. As much as I understand wanting to do that yourself, I would bite the dollar bill bullet and have them go all the way--and you know how it pains me to say that. Just my two cents brother. I think you will be much happier getting back a car that runs---leave it to the experts.

Glad your car is out of Bret's place, that makes room for mine--LOL.

D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

9 months feels like an eternity to me lol. Especially, when I never dreamed it would take this long. I honestly thought at least as far as shop work was involved that I'd be done in December, worst case March. But then the wheel fiasco happened so much of the delay is due to that and not any of the shops I've worked with. This is the longest the car has been undrivable and out of my possession since I bought it in 2006 and even then I had the car drivable 7 months after purchase.

Dick hasn't seen the car yet so until he does I don't think its fair for him to commit 100% to anything. However, I asked him about removing the inner fenders and doing all the work on those, the alignment, finishing fabing the trans tunnel, notching the fuel tank. He seemed pretty confident they'd knock out all that stuff in a week. Everything I've seen and everyone I've talked to has had nothing but good things to say about BOS so I'm feeling good about it.

Sorry to hear about your delays Chad. Wish I could help you out but BOS is a great shop.

[bonecrrusher]

If you had that in 1680x1050 that would be awesome!

Thanks,
Craig

[Vegas69]

You need the patience of a saint to build one of these cars. :unibrow:

[intocarss]

If you had that in 1680x1050 that would be awesome!

Thanks,
Craig No computer wiz here but

I just set it as my wall paper and it looks great

[Ron in SoCal]

You need the patience of a saint to build one of these cars. :unibrow:

Aint that the truth...

[Chad-1stGen]

If you had that in 1680x1050 that would be awesome!

Thanks,
Craig

No computer wiz here but

I just set it as my wall paper and it looks great

:thumbsup: right on :) This is gonna blow up this page but here is the file in 1700 x 1133. Original pic size is 5184 x 3456 lol.
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5118/fab5342912021c.jpg

You need the patience of a saint to build one of these cars. :unibrow:

I missed that memo... Sadly, I do not have the patience of a saint. I know surprise right?

[Bryan O]

You need the patience of a saint to build one of these cars. :unibrow:

^^:yes:

[makoshark]

You need the patience of a saint to build one of these cars. :unibrow:

INDEED!!!! It doesn't help being ADD either:lol:

[bonecrrusher]

Thanks - looks awesome on my dual 24" monitors!

[Chad-1stGen]

Small update:

Best of show has finished reworking the trans tunnel, not that you can see much.
http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/36/62/15806326_large.jpg

They have also reworked the inner fenders to clear the 275's up front which required a repaint.
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/36/72/15806327_large.jpg
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/36/52/15806325_large.jpg

Haven't gotten to the bottom of yet but it's looking more like either something is off on my car or subframe. As you can see in this earlier pic the driver's side front wheel is not centered very well. Car is at the alignment shop right now to get an alignment done and see if further modifications are needed. More to come

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/23/66/15743266_large.jpg

[Matt@BOS]

Not that it will probably end up making you feel much better, but I don't think the the problem is with your car. The black convertible at BOS had the exact same issue with its TCI subframe. Two in a row with the same problem seems like more than a coincidence, but then again these are 40 year old car we're dealing with.

Matt

[Chad-1stGen]

Ha ha I'd rather it be the subframe than my car itself being that out of square. Dick told me about the other car and how they fixed it last week. Knowing that it is two in a row and that my previous subframe had the wheels fairly centered even with over 5* of caster also makes me doubtful that it is my car but I'll wait until it's back from the alignment shop and see what Dick says.

[Flash68]

And the fun continues.... :)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I have seen a few TCI's do that.

[Chad-1stGen]

Got more info back from BOS and TCI. Both front wheels are back in the wheel well about 0.5" from dead center. That is also with 5.78* of caster driver's side and 6.27* on the passenger side as well as over 2.5* of negative camber.

So we are going to make the alignment match exactly the TCI recommended specs of 5* caster and 2* negative camber. This is expected to allow the tires to safely clear but will still be slightly back in the wheel well overall.

Since everything is powder coated already I'll consider modifying anything on the frame later if it is still warranted after dialing out some caster.

[Flash68]

So TCI engineered it to actually not sit in the middle of the wheel well? Did I read/interpret that right?

[Ron in SoCal]

So TCI engineered it to actually not sit in the middle of the wheel well? Did I read/interpret that right?

Just a guess, but it prob wasn't the intent...just the fix.

[Vegas69]

Positive caster moves the upper ball joint to the rear of the chassis. My guess is that they engineered the chassis with the wheel centered at 0 caster. Has anybody looked to see if a wheel is perfectly centered on a stock subframe. I doubt it is.

[Track Junky]

Sounds to me like BOS tried to make the wheels equal in the opening on each side and ended up with two different caster dimensions to make it happen. Either the subframe has been installed out of square or the sub is out of square. Could also be the control arms aren't equal or the CA mounting points on the subframe are off.

[Chad-1stGen]

So TCI engineered it to actually not sit in the middle of the wheel well? Did I read/interpret that right?

Just a guess, but it prob wasn't the intent...just the fix.

Positive caster moves the upper ball joint to the rear of the chassis. My guess is that they engineered the chassis with the wheel centered at 0 caster. Has anybody looked to see if a wheel is perfectly centered on a stock subframe. I doubt it is.


TCI engineered their subframe to place the front wheel in the same spot as factory, which according to them is slightly back from center. I do know that my old factory subframe with 5.0* Driver and 5.5* Pass. of caster the wheels were not exactly centered, they were back in the subframe as well, it just wasn't as obvious as it the new set up which is apparently due to the radical amount of caster BOS's alignment friends added.

Sounds to me like BOS tried to make the wheels equal in the opening on each side and ended up with two different caster dimensions to make it happen. Either the subframe has been installed out of square or the sub is out of square. Could also be the control arms aren't equal or the CA mounting points on the subframe are off.

It is normal for any street driven car to have 0.5* more caster on the passenger side than the drivers side. So they didnt' do anything funky in the alignment. The only issue is that they put in a good 0.75* more caster per side than TCI recommends. New vette's and BMW's get run with 7*+ of caster so I think it would of been a good idea to allow folks to run higher caster rates but most first gen Camaro's consider themselves lucky to get 5*

[Flash68]

This got me wondering if my fronts were ever centered. I never measured exactly but this side pic appears that they are slightly back a bit? Look similar to yours Chad either before or after?

My last caster numbers were 6.34 left and 5.26 right. Stock sub.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/RTTCII099-1.jpg

[Vegas69]

It's to bad they didn't use a wide angle lense. They may have got my bumper.

To me it's another one of those deals you will forget about once you start using the car again. These cars weren't perfect 40 years ago. They will never be perfect today. Factory cars aren't perfect. Finish it, beat on it, and all will be well. :D

[Track Junky]

It is normal for any street driven car to have 0.5* more caster on the passenger side than the drivers side. So they didnt' do anything funky in the alignment. The only issue is that they put in a good 0.75* more caster per side than TCI recommends. New vette's and BMW's get run with 7*+ of caster so I think it would of been a good idea to allow folks to run higher caster rates but most first gen Camaro's consider themselves lucky to get 5*

I've got well over the 5* of caster you are talking about so I dont know what your talking about. I dont want to give up my alignment specs but lets just say it's closer to what the Vette and the Viper are running.
As far as unequal caster....good luck with that....I would never run unequal caster on each side but I will add my alignment is done while I'm sitting in the car.

[Vegas69]

Unequal caster is for road crown. It fights the pull to the right. Simple as that.

[Track Junky]

Unequal caster is for road crown. It fights the pull to the right. Simple as that.

Thats great for a street driver but when your running 100 plus down a straight with uneqaul caster will cause instability in a straight line.

[Vegas69]

Last time I checked this was a street car website. :unibrow: And I disagree that a .5 degree difference would cause any stability issues. Low caster and toe out cause stability issues.

[Track Junky]

Last time I checked this was a street car website. :unibrow:

For how much longer :lol:

[sik68]

FWIW I run 5.75" (both sides) and my wheels are definitely aft of centerline.

For how much longer :lol:

Just until Flash finally gets fed up with Todd and bans him. :rofl:

[Vegas69]

For how much longer :lol:

Good point!

FWIW I run 5.75" (both sides) and my wheels are definitely aft of centerline.



Just until Flash finally gets fed up with Todd and bans him. :rofl:

He wouldn't do that to me.:lol:

[Chad-1stGen]

Like Todd said unequal caster for road crown.

for whatever its worth I've run the standard 0.5* unequal caster in every alignment I've done in my car so far. I certainly wasn't a mad speed demon but I did see 100+ mph on several tracks including 120 range at Big Willow. I never noticed any pull or instability.


To me it's another one of those deals you will forget about once you start using the car again. These cars weren't perfect 40 years ago. They will never be perfect today. Factory cars aren't perfect. Finish it, beat on it, and all will be well. :D

Thanks Todd. I still have a lot of confidence in the results of the TCI parts and running 5* vs 7* at my skill level and level of build effort probably isn't going to matter anyways lol!!

The TCI car has the prototype subframe and it's mounting points are a 0.25" further back than the production and I've never heard anyone giving them grief about how their wheels look on the car and it certainly performs awesome at the local good guys and RTTC events I see it at! I got a lot less concerned once I figured out the issue wasn't specific to one side of the car.

As long as I can run 5*+ of caster and a 275 front tire I'll be pretty happy.

[Chad-1stGen]

This got me wondering if my fronts were ever centered. I never measured exactly but this side pic appears that they are slightly back a bit? Look similar to yours Chad either before or after?

My last caster numbers were 6.34 left and 5.26 right. Stock sub.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/RTTCII099-1.jpg

I decided to go through my cardomain pics and forgot I had a pic uploaded of V2.0 with a 275 up front.

So my old set up looked like this when trying to stuff 275 up front with about 5.5* of caster. NT05 275/40/18 on a 9" wheel with 5.5" of BS.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4339/3789/23346894043_large.jpg

R888 275/35/18 on a 9" wheel with 5.75" BS and 6.25* of caster with the TCI subframe.
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/71/18/15811781_large.jpg

Looking at these pics it seems pretty clear TCI does indeed attempt to duplicate the tire position as a stock subframe.

[Vegas69]

5 degrees of caster and 2 degrees of camber will treat you fine. Alignment has a lot to do with the application. The middle road that pro touring dictates is tough for alignments. It's a compromise. 2 degrees of camber will wear the inside edge with a bunch of street miles. It really just depends on the amount of track time if tire wear will be a problem.

Forget all that, you are running R888's now. You won't have to worry about it. :lol:

[DFRESH]

I'd start this project all over again.

[67zo6Camaro]

I'd start this project all over again.

Wow that's tuff love... I thought you guys were friends.:rofl:

Chad, glad to see some progress on the car. Looks good.

[Chad-1stGen]

Wow that's tuff love... I thought you guys were friends.:rofl:

Chad, glad to see some progress on the car. Looks good.

Thanks Brett. Doug and I had lunch today so he got to hear all about the latest in person. And actually, part of it was me telling him how I seem to keep adding to my list of opportunities for the "I told you so" from you!!

[Chad-1stGen]

Damn I'm feeling goooooooooood right now!!!

Fired up the motor for the first time today. Still a ton or work to do on the car but I definitely feel like I'm on the other side now :)

Was holding the phone the wrong way so this video looks lame but here is my first ever attempt to start my new Mast motor.

fU2PLFSaVag

PS F*UCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spiffav8]

That's a huge step! Congrats!!

:captain:

[Ron in SoCal]

Way to go Chad!!! :thumbsup: :hail: :thumbsup:

I say leave it uncorked for a while just to let the neighbors know who's boss...:D

[intocarss]

There's nothing like your first "fire up" (OK there is but this is a G rated site )

CONGRATS!! :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Sounds like a winner Bobby! :unibrow:

So what's next?

[Vegas69]

Way to go Chad!!! :thumbsup: :hail: :thumbsup:

I say leave it uncorked for a while just to let the neighbors know who's boss...:D

:thumbsup: :lol:

[makoshark]

Only thing I can think of when you rev that motor up is...

http://youtu.be/S06nIz4scvI

[DFRESH]

Awesome news----very, very happy for you! That's a corner turned right there for sure.

[Chad-1stGen]

Thanks everyone!! I'm still have a high going from the car guy euphoria of starting a new motor.

Sounds like a winner Bobby! :unibrow:

So what's next?

ha ha. The "to do" list is still pretty long but I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel.

- enhaust
- Misc wire clean up in the engine compartment
- wire up the A/C compressor as well as get new ends crimped on the lines and charge the system
- Remount front bumper (I have to many paint blemishes that were hidden by the bumper before and I still like the look)
- Mount front spoiler
- grease suspension mounts
- Probably have to bleed the clutch
- clean up wiring under dash
- Figure out some miracle to route the heater/AC ducts with the new computer mount in the way (in place of glovebox)
- rewire the transmission harness (was cut from tunnel being fixed)
- rewire all the trunk stereo stuff (speakers, amps, etc)
- put the interior back together (possibly need to buy new carpet since the shifter moved)
- Take the car to TCI to get help sorting out the suspension.

You probably weren't wanting to see that detailed of a list and I'm probably forgetting a bunch of stuff but that is the general idea.

[67zo6Camaro]

Damn I'm feeling goooooooooood right now!!!

Fired up the motor for the first time today. Still a ton or work to do on the car but I definitely feel like I'm on the other side now :)

Was holding the phone the wrong way so this video looks lame but here is my first ever attempt to start my new Mast motor.

fU2PLFSaVag

PS F*UCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F yeah that sounds good, you don't need pipes. Loved the way the computer was trying to learn the idle, sounds like a big cam.

You know Im not sure you can handle all that.... you better let me take it for the first test spin. :D

Congrates.

[Roadbuster]

Sound awesome! Major milestone achieved!

[Richio1]

Good for you Chad. Big big step forward. I'm sure you have a renewed motivation to push to the end. Keep it up!

[Track Junky]

That thing sounds wicked :unibrow:

Congrats!! :thumbsup:

[waynieZ]

I love it! It sounds sweet !!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Damn I'm feeling goooooooooood right now!!!

Fired up the motor for the first time today. Still a ton or work to do on the car but I definitely feel like I'm on the other side now :)

Was holding the phone the wrong way so this video looks lame but here is my first ever attempt to start my new Mast motor.

PS F*UCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Way to go Chad!!!! sounds great.

[Chad-1stGen]

Man what a week! Starting last Saturday night when I picked up my notched fuel tank from Brett, I've been working on this car like a dog! In the last 8 days I've put in over 60 hours of work while still working 40 hours at my day job. Several early am nights lol.

This weekend (over 20 hours) made it worth it.

Today the car left the garage under it's own power for the first time in about a year!! Man that felt amazing!

http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/09/15888590_large.jpg

Some of the little stuff I've been working on:

Getting the ECU mounted while still clearing the vintage air unit and allowing all of the ducting to fit was an extremely long process. The setup in the car now looks like a 20 minute install but it took me dozens of mockups and reinstalls to get it all to work. I really wanted to have a glove box but couldn't get this stuff mounted in the car any other way.

Took one of Joe Lutz's (PT.com member) aluminum mounting parts which I knew when I bought it that it wouldn't work out of the box with vintage air. Trimmed 2.25" off the left side which allowed it to clear my center vent as well as made room for the ducting.

Mounting part after cutting 2.25" off:
http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/38/15888583_large.jpg

After another 10 hours of trial and error fitting everything. This was like a jigsaw puzzle for me. Even after a bunch of mock ups I originally had the ECU about 1.5" higher and the fuse/relay box mounted laterally with the fuses pointed straight out. Everything fit and then I tried closing the glove box. Anyhow enough moaning about this simple part taking me forever.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/78/15888587_large.jpg

Though I don't have a pic right now I can confirm that I was able to get all of the AC ducts installed and working. Man it's TIGHT!

So after reading countless threads on LS steam vent solutions and then countless searches for the right size tee fitting (finally found the PN on a biodiesel site) I came up with my setup.

I needed to run an adapter in my return heater hose to go from 5/8 to 3/4 so since I needed a union no matter what a tee with a 1/4" barb was the ticket.

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/87/15888578_large.jpg http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/18/15888581_large.jpg

After a tip from Dick at Best of Show I decided to flip my LS3 fuel rails 180* so I didn't have to run a fuel line all the way from the passenger side to the driver's side.

Before:
http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/37/15888573_large.jpg

Couldn't find my after pic but if you look in this pic you will see the supply side now comes out on the passenger side:

http://carphotos3.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/57/15888575_large.jpg

I decided it was probably time to update my CID badges...

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/48/15888584_large.jpg
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/68/15888586_large.jpg

And lastly a random under shot I took when picking up the car from BOS several weeks ago
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/58/76/15888567_large.jpg

No pics yet but today I got a lot of the interior reinstalled. Man it feels so good to walk out and see carpet and seats in the car again lol.

[DFRESH]

Really happy for you brother! It seems like awhile ago that we had the motor pulling party--the beginning of the long road---man, you really turned a corner today ---literally right? :lol: Congrats again!

Doug

[Track Junky]

X2......Man what a journey. Glad your back on the road. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Love the new 4 on your fender badge. :unibrow:

Congrats Chad.... you've been workin your ass off lately. :thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

Way to go Chad! You'll be burning up the track in no time :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Lenie]

Chad, it's always a great feeling to see your hard work pay off...congratulations, car looks amazing. Inspirational badging!:hail:

[chr2002ca]

That's awesome Chad. Sounds deliberate. You're getting close now. :thumbsup:

[Nessumsar]

I see some lower lap times in your near future.

When are we going for a drive?:cheers:

[67zo6Camaro]

Man what a week! Starting last Saturday night when I picked up my notched fuel tank from Brett, I've been working on this car like a dog! In the last 8 days I've put in over 60 hours of work while still working 40 hours at my day job. Several early am nights lol.


Thanks for the plug, I have a few pictures of the tank being modified. Do you want me to post some.

Brett

[Chad-1stGen]

Thanks again everyone!! Still feeling good today. Can't wait to take this thing for a real drive. Soon. Just confirmed my appointment and the car is off the exhaust shop tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the plug, I have a few pictures of the tank being modified. Do you want me to post some.

Brett

Sure post em up. After all aren't we all picture whores to some extent around here lol?

BTW I sent you an email about the catch can setup I'm eyeballing. So check your email when you get a chance.

[Rybar]

Chad that thing sounds nasty. Congrats bud, it's like witnessing the birth of your child lol

[Chad-1stGen]

Way to go Chad!!! :thumbsup: :hail: :thumbsup:

I say leave it uncorked for a while just to let the neighbors know who's boss...:D

Well Ron, I didn't leave it uncorked very long but I figure starting the car up this morning around 7:30am to load it on the trailer helped establish something (either who is boss or who is kind of a dick...).

Either way I thought I'd take some video to capture that lovely uncorcked sound before I add mufflers and tame the beast.

5CYnoSpz7aQ

Car is now waiting for Magnaflow exhaust

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8262/img1700c.jpg

[Swain]

Sounds Mean :thumbsup:

[glassman]

Man I must be a loser. I had a better time watching that than i did watching the Olympics tonite. Effin car guys...

That thing is SICK!!! grats...

[Flash68]

You're kind of a d!ck! :rofl: Love it.

You know I'd vote for leaving the exhaust as is. :captain:

What?

[Matt@BOS]

I remember when you used to have to downshift to accelerate when pulling a grade. :unibrow:

Somehow I doubt you'll be having any issues with that now.

Matt

[DFRESH]

How about some updates Chad---silence usually means more money has been required--and we want to know about it.

Lunch this week?

D

[Chad-1stGen]

How about some updates Chad---silence usually means more money has been required--and we want to know about it.

Lunch this week?

D

Doug,

How about lunch next week? No updates because the car was at Magnaflow for about a week and then I've been out of town since last Saturday. Car is ready for me to pick it up and its been killing me that I can't go get it NOW as I'm stuck in NorCal.

I've got a few things to tweak and then its off to TCI for some suspension tweaking and tuning next week :)

[intocarss]

I'm sure any of us SoCal people will be glad to go drive it home for you:willy: HELL we'll even fill her up with fuel !

[Flash68]

I'm stuck in NorCal.



You in Sac, or the bay ?

[Chad-1stGen]

I'm sure any of us SoCal people will be glad to go drive it home for you:willy: HELL we'll even fill her up with fuel !

That is what I love about this site. Everyone is so generous!!

You in Sac, or the bay ?

I'm in Sac. Driving the long drive home with the boat tomorrow.

[Chad-1stGen]

Picked the car up on Monday and got back out in the garage last night.

Exhaust sounds great but I've encountered new gremlins (at least I hope they are gremlins and not major problems).

The main thing that prevented the car from being driven in the past was front tire clearance and interference of one of the two pinion down bars on the rear end. After thrashing on other parts of the car I decided that the one pinion down bar was strong enough for a mild drive and threw my old front tires on and took the car for a real drive (as opposed to loading it on/off trailers).

It was not a confidence boosting drive. After warming up the oil I was getting 20 PSI at idle and 40 at high RPM. I also have significant engine vibration above 1500 RPM.

I am hoping I did the noob LS move so many others did and screwed up the oil pick up tube o-ring install when I swapped to the Autokraft pan and that is my oil pressure problem. If not then I don't know what to do next?

I am stumped by the vibration. It's 100% related to engine speed. Will vibrate in neutral sitting still in the driveway when you rev up the motor. vibrates driving at speed until you push in the clutch and/or shift into neutral at which point the vibrations are gone.

Since it was a new crate motor (did sit for 3 years before being run), new RAM flywheel and GM LS7 clutch I'm not sure how to diagnose it. I'm guessing it has something to do with the flywheel/clutch. Would bell housing run-out effect this? Pomona Valley Customs assured me they checked it and it was fine but after seeing their other work I have my doubts. Can you screw up an LS7 clutch install and cause vibration but otherwise have a good working clutch? What would you guys check?


I was supposed to participate in the Super Chevy Handling challenge but after last nights voyage there is no way I can make it.

Thanks

[Mkelcy]

Picked the car up on Monday and got back out in the garage last night.

Exhaust sounds great but I've encountered new gremlins (at least I hope they are gremlins and not major problems).

The main thing that prevented the car from being driven in the past was front tire clearance and interference of one of the two pinion down bars on the rear end. After thrashing on other parts of the car I decided that the one pinion down bar was strong enough for a mild drive and threw my old front tires on and took the car for a real drive (as opposed to loading it on/off trailers).

It was not a confidence boosting drive. After warming up the oil I was getting 20 PSI at idle and 40 at high RPM. I also have significant engine vibration above 1500 RPM.

I am hoping I did the noob LS move so many others did and screwed up the oil pick up tube o-ring install when I swapped to the Autokraft pan and that is my oil pressure problem. If not then I don't know what to do next?

I am stumped by the vibration. It's 100% related to engine speed. Will vibrate in neutral sitting still in the driveway when you rev up the motor. vibrates driving at speed until you push in the clutch and/or shift into neutral at which point the vibrations are gone.

Since it was a new crate motor (did sit for 3 years before being run), new RAM flywheel and GM LS7 clutch I'm not sure how to diagnose it. I'm guessing it has something to do with the flywheel/clutch. Would bell housing run-out effect this? Pomona Valley Customs assured me they checked it and it was fine but after seeing their other work I have my doubts. Can you screw up an LS7 clutch install and cause vibration but otherwise have a good working clutch? What would you guys check?


I was supposed to participate in the Super Chevy Handling challenge but after last nights voyage there is no way I can make it.

Thanks

Sorry to hear about still more glitches.

Unless PVC has a fixture with a round hole concentric with the crankshaft (like the McLeod adapter plate), I don't know how anyone checks the run-out on a T56 bellhousing.

That said, I'd look to the flywheel/pressure plate. I don't think disengaging the clutch would eliminate vibration caused by excesive bellhousing run-out.

[Chad-1stGen]

Sorry to hear about still more glitches.

Unless PVC has a fixture with a round hole concentric with the crankshaft (like the McLeod adapter plate), I don't know how anyone checks the run-out on a T56 bellhousing.

That said, I'd look to the flywheel/pressure plate. I don't think disengaging the clutch would eliminate vibration caused by excesive bellhousing run-out.

Thanks Mike.

I actually never tried revving the motor with the clutch. I was attempting to describe that the vibration is engine speed dependent only. I will try revving with the clutch in to see if that impacts it at all.

My understanding is you should check all bell housings and that you buy replacement alignment dowels to get proper run out.

[Vegas69]

I'd look at the engine vitals first in regards to the vibration. All 8 firing, fuel pressure, engine tune, etc...

My stock LS2 makes 28-30 psi at idle hot. What weight oil are you running? Mast may loosen up their clearances and that could require heavier oil to get a pressure that makes you feel fuzzy. 50-60 psi at redline should suffice, hot.

[Chad-1stGen]

I'd look at the engine vitals first in regards to the vibration. All 8 firing, fuel pressure, engine tune, etc...

My stock LS2 makes 28-30 psi at idle hot. What weight oil are you running? Mast may loosen up their clearances and that could require heavier oil to get a pressure that makes you feel fuzzy. 50-60 psi at redline should suffice, hot.

re: oil pressure Mast did confirm my readings sounded a bit low. I would generally agree 50-60 at redline is good. I'm not running the motor at redline yet but 4K it was right at 40 which is far lower than any of the LS equipped vehicles I've driven and I'm used to motors reaching peak oil pressure or at least high oil pressure far before redline. It currently has the Mast recommended 10-30 Valvoline racing oil in it with EOS additive. I'm probably going to drop the pan and check the o-ring no matter what.

I haven't touched the tune since it's tuned at Mast and they do dyno the motors before shipping. I used to check for all cylinders firing by pulling a plug wire one at a time with the engine running. What is the non cave man way to do it lol?

Currently don't have a way to check fuel pressure but will look into that. I have a hard time seeing fuel pressure doing vibration while the motor otherwise pulls fine and drives fine.

I will add the motor pulls plenty hard with the limited drive I did. Even part throttle mild driving up to 3K RPM's shows this motor is far more powerful than my old zz4 350.

I get more vibration through the steering wheel (no more rag joint, uses u joints) than I get riding through the handle bars riding my 88TCB Harley. My side view mirrors shake like a Harley too...

[intocarss]

What was the oil pressure at when they dyno'd it....has it changed since then??

Are you running an electric oil pressure gauge?

I'd start with a simple thing like the gauge and or sending unit if it's an elec gauge. I've had faulty sending units that read low press JMOHO

[Mkelcy]

Thanks Mike.

I actually never tried revving the motor with the clutch. I was attempting to describe that the vibration is engine speed dependent only. I will try revving with the clutch in to see if that impacts it at all.

My understanding is you should check all bell housings and that you buy replacement alignment dowels to get proper run out.

True, but the T56 specific bellhousings don't have a round surface that's concentric with the crank. The bellhousing follows the shape of the transmission. That's why you need some sort of fixture to check runout.

I am stumped by the vibration. It's 100% related to engine speed. Will vibrate in neutral sitting still in the driveway when you rev up the motor. vibrates driving at speed until you push in the clutch and/or shift into neutral at which point the vibrations are gone.

I was trying to say that I doubt that the bell housing could be so misaligned that you get a bad vibration, yet have the vibration compeletely disappear when you depress the clutch with the car moving. The input shaft is still inserted into the pilot bushing and is still hypothetically being whipped around if the bellhousing is misaligned. Again, I'd look at the engine and the flywheel/pressure plate. Was the pressure plate new and zero balanced?

[Vegas69]

Fuel pressure is crucial with fuel injection. I wouldn't drive it again until you are able to monitor it. An engine in bad tune will vibrate like crazy.

[DFRESH]

Chad, great seeing you today for lunch. Let us know what you find out on the oil pressure and the vibration. I am hoping for the o-ring quick fix and hopefully something easy with respect to the vibration. Glad it's running and driving at least.

So did you drop the pan tonight?

D

[Chad-1stGen]

What was the oil pressure at when they dyno'd it....has it changed since then??

Are you running an electric oil pressure gauge?

I'd start with a simple thing like the gauge and or sending unit if it's an elec gauge. I've had faulty sending units that read low press JMOHO

I don't know the oil pressure at dyno. I am running an electric sending unit. I'm taking the oil pressure readings off my laptop from the ECU. My gauge is also, driven by the Mast ECU.

True, but the T56 specific bellhousings don't have a round surface that's concentric with the crank. The bellhousing follows the shape of the transmission. That's why you need some sort of fixture to check runout.



I was trying to say that I doubt that the bell housing could be so misaligned that you get a bad vibration, yet have the vibration compeletely disappear when you depress the clutch with the car moving. The input shaft is still inserted into the pilot bushing and is still hypothetically being whipped around if the bellhousing is misaligned. Again, I'd look at the engine and the flywheel/pressure plate. Was the pressure plate new and zero balanced?

Ok I understand what you mean now. The flywheel is the Ram aluminum and the GM LS7 clutch. The parts here: http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-dickey-parts-center/sdls7ack If I pull the trans what would you recommend I look for with the clutch/flywheel? I don't know about zero balanced but yes the parts were new.

Fuel pressure is crucial with fuel injection. I wouldn't drive it again until you are able to monitor it. An engine in bad tune will vibrate like crazy.

I'll see if I can get a gauge to check it. I'm running the vaporworx setup but there could be something wrong with the pump I guess.

Chad, great seeing you today for lunch. Let us know what you find out on the oil pressure and the vibration. I am hoping for the o-ring quick fix and hopefully something easy with respect to the vibration. Glad it's running and driving at least.

So did you drop the pan tonight?

D

Hey Doug, it was good catching up with you today as well. The o ring is not going to be a "quick" fix sadly. I got under the car tonight and I need to pull the rack and either lifting the motor and/or removing the transmission. So its going to be a lot more work to get at the pickup. I probably need to pull the trans to check the clutch anyways so I may go that route assuming it's not some weird fuel pressure thing that Todd is suggesting.

Thanks everyone for the help. The advice is much appreciated.

[Matt@BOS]

Fuel pressure is crucial with fuel injection. I wouldn't drive it again until you are able to monitor it. An engine in bad tune will vibrate like crazy.

It is something no one ever really thinks of, but when it comes to building a car, putting a fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment often comes in handy. Also make sure all of your sensors are working properly, i.e. there's no oil on a MAP sensor, everything is plugged in tight, etc.

As for oil pressure, does Mast have a particular set of numbers that they like to see?

Hope you get all these issues sorted Chad!

Matt

[Vegas69]

If you haven't learned this handy little fact yet, here it is. NEVER assume anything. :D

[Chad-1stGen]

It is something no one ever really thinks of, but when it comes to building a car, putting a fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment often comes in handy. Also make sure all of your sensors are working properly, i.e. there's no oil on a MAP sensor, everything is plugged in tight, etc.

As for oil pressure, does Mast have a particular set of numbers that they like to see?

Hope you get all these issues sorted Chad!

Matt

Thanks Matt. Me too. Mast indicated that warm oil pressure at idle would normally be in the 35-45 PSI range. They didn't give me a high RPM or WOT range.

If you haven't learned this handy little fact yet, here it is. NEVER assume anything. :D

Ha, I get what you mean and can logically agree with you but you know that is honestly easier said than done sometimes. Probably going to order a fuel pressure gauge for the fuel rail tonight. I had one on my old motor. I can't believe the difference in cost between a mechanical fuel pressure gauge and electric one that you can have in the car though, wow.

[Chad-1stGen]

Well I eliminated the fuel pressure as a cause unless 1.5 more PSI is a problem, though I can't see it causing vibration.

Rented a tester kit from the local parts store tonight. Mast requires 58.5 PSI at the fuel rail and I have dead on at 60 PSI according to the tester. Since I can induce vibration just by increasing RPM's in neutral there wasn't a need to test it under load. When blipping the throttle I see a split second 1 PSI dip.

On to tripple check the engine mounts and trans mount and then it's time to pull the tranny and check the clutch.

I was thinking I can take the clutch off and run the motor with just the flywheel to see if I still get horrible vibration at 2K RPM's. If it's still there then I may need to borrow a flywheel or get the balance checked at a shop.

Will keep you guys posted.

[Vegas69]

At least now you know the pressure is out of the equation. Pull a few plugs and see how the mixture looks as well.

[Chad-1stGen]

At least now you know the pressure is out of the equation. Pull a few plugs and see how the mixture looks as well.

I actually decided to run a compression test as well. I'd say the car is running a tad rich based on the exhaust fumes. Plugs generally looked good with 2 or 3 plugs looking noticeably rich. Not carbon build up rich but more black in color.

[makoshark]

Are you running a pilot bushing or bearing in the end of the crankshaft? I had a similar vibration on a car once after installing a new clutch. I chased the vibration down by a damaged pilot bushing due to install. I replaced it with a bearing

[chr2002ca]

I went down this road also Chad when I first put my GM crate motor ZZ454 in years ago. Same exact vibration problem, except I had an automatic. Did nearly all the same things you're doing. Compression check, fuel pressure check, spark plug and wires check(and distributor), harmonic balancer check, mounts check. I eliminated some vibration when I found a bad spark plug wire arc'ing over to my block causing a misfire. But still had some vibration so I then detached the torque converter from the flywheel and shimmed the transmission back to allow the engine to run while detached from converter. I noticed very little vibration then. So, to make a long story shorter, most of the issue was with my flywheel and how the converter was bolting to it, and a new flywheel solved that. I still had a slight harmonic vibration between 1500 and 3000pm after all that, but it was basically just a result of a big cube motor and I came to that conclusion when I sat in somebody else's ride who had the same ZZ454 and it felt exactly the same at the steering wheel.

It drove me nuts for quite a while so I hope you get it sorted out soon and it's something simple. :thumbsup:

[Chad-1stGen]

Are you running a pilot bushing or bearing in the end of the crankshaft? I had a similar vibration on a car once after installing a new clutch. I chased the vibration down by a damaged pilot bushing due to install. I replaced it with a bearing

I don't know. I had a shop assemble the sub and they installed the pilot bushing/bearing. I'll know soon enough I think.

I went down this road also Chad when I first put my GM crate motor ZZ454 in years ago. Same exact vibration problem, except I had an automatic. Did nearly all the same things you're doing. Compression check, fuel pressure check, spark plug and wires check(and distributor), harmonic balancer check, mounts check. I eliminated some vibration when I found a bad spark plug wire arc'ing over to my block causing a misfire. But still had some vibration so I then detached the torque converter from the flywheel and shimmed the transmission back to allow the engine to run while detached from converter. I noticed very little vibration then. So, to make a long story shorter, most of the issue was with my flywheel and how the converter was bolting to it, and a new flywheel solved that. I still had a slight harmonic vibration between 1500 and 3000pm after all that, but it was basically just a result of a big cube motor and I came to that conclusion when I sat in somebody else's ride who had the same ZZ454 and it felt exactly the same at the steering wheel.

It drove me nuts for quite a while so I hope you get it sorted out soon and it's something simple. :thumbsup:

Thanks Chris.

I think I eliminated tune or engine running incorrectly as a cause of the vibration. I took the car for another diagnostic drive tonight and the vibration is there upon deceleration as well. I even turned the car off in gear decelerating down from about 3.5K rpms and its the exact same vibration. So I'm convinced it's mechanical, rather that anything else.

I have to go out of town this weekend but I plan to pull the motor next week.

Regarding the oil pressure I ordered an adapter for my other sending unit and can play with that next week too. However, when I did my test drive tonight I noticed that at cold oil temps I have a ton of oil pressure (50 idle cold and doesn't drop below 35-40 until a good 10 mins into driving (not idling). If I rev the motor with cold oil it will hit mid/high 70's PSI.

[Vegas69]

Cold oil pressure doesn't mean much. I've had small blocks with wore out bearings down to the copper have great cold oil pressure and no hot oil pressure. Pull that pan and check the oring while you have things apart.

[Chad-1stGen]

Cold oil pressure doesn't mean much. I've had small blocks with wore out bearings down to the copper have great cold oil pressure and no hot oil pressure. Pull that pan and check the oring while you have things apart.

Agreed. The point I was trying to make was the high cold oil pressure makes me think the sending unit isn't the problem and the reading is accurate. Meaning yeah I gotta pull the pan

[Frankenstine]

Hey Chad super nice build,:thumbsup: Not shure you would have the same set up as this guy does (project Schism on Pro Touring .com) but I read on his post page 2 about measuring the radius of the belhousing to make shure the shaft is centered on the crank, or it may cause a vibration a eventuly bearing failure?? just a thought sense you are having a vibration of sorts, he is running an LS3 with a Whipple charger I think, Hope you get it figured out. :thumbsup:

[Chad-1stGen]

Well I've been working on the car a little bit each night this week. After failing to get up the motivation to even touch it Monday I made a deal with myself to at least do an hour a night.

So after a few nights I got the tranny pulled and flywheel & clutch out.

Let me just say that trying to pull the tranny without draining it was a bonehead move. I made a huge freakin mess and still have to add fluid. Oh well now I know.

Also, learned that a torque arm and tight exhaust makes driveshaft removal a huge PIA. Luckily I was able to slide it bad far enough to get out of the way without totally removing it. I had a few requests to Magnaflow when I dropped the car off and luckily they did a good job of routing it so I could pull the tranny without totally removing the exhaust.

As far as diagnosing the vibration I did start it up with the clutch removed and just the flywheel installed. Vibration was still there. Today I dropped the flywheel and pressure plate off to get checked and rebalanced if necessary. They won't have it done until next Tuesday at the earliest so I have until then to wonder about the motor lol.

Also found another present from Pomona Valley Customs in the form of a stripped bolt into my block at the top of the bell housing. They installed a totally different thread than the rest of the bolts. What a bunch of friggen yahoos.

[67zo6Camaro]

Well I've been working on the car a little bit each night this week. After failing to get up the motivation to even touch it Monday I made a deal with myself to at least do an hour a night.

So after a few nights I got the tranny pulled and flywheel & clutch out.

Let me just say that trying to pull the tranny without draining it was a bonehead move. I made a huge freakin mess and still have to add fluid. Oh well now I know.

Also, learned that a torque arm and tight exhaust makes driveshaft removal a huge PIA. Luckily I was able to slide it bad far enough to get out of the way without totally removing it. I had a few requests to Magnaflow when I dropped the car off and luckily they did a good job of routing it so I could pull the tranny without totally removing the exhaust.

As far as diagnosing the vibration I did start it up with the clutch removed and just the flywheel installed. Vibration was still there. Today I dropped the flywheel and pressure plate off to get checked and rebalanced if necessary. They won't have it done until next Tuesday at the earliest so I have until then to wonder about the motor lol.

Also found another present from Pomona Valley Customs in the form of a stripped bolt into my block at the top of the bell housing. They installed a totally different thread than the rest of the bolts. What a bunch of friggen yahoos.

Good luck with the Flywheel and Clutch. I hope that the fact you got the engine at such a big discount dosen't have anything to do with a potential crank balance problem.:question:

Anyway, just as a reminder I re-tapped several of those case holes, if not all of them, because they had SAE bolts instead of the metric. And maybe two of them seamed on the loose side because of the prior damage. I purchased all new bolts for you also....So, who else had that trans out after me? You could just re-tap the stripped ones to the next size up and/or thread pitch.

Man, sounds like you just can't get a break with this thing.:faint:

[Mkelcy]

Well I've been working on the car a little bit each night this week. After failing to get up the motivation to even touch it Monday I made a deal with myself to at least do an hour a night.

So after a few nights I got the tranny pulled and flywheel & clutch out.

Let me just say that trying to pull the tranny without draining it was a bonehead move. I made a huge freakin mess and still have to add fluid. Oh well now I know.

Also, learned that a torque arm and tight exhaust makes driveshaft removal a huge PIA. Luckily I was able to slide it bad far enough to get out of the way without totally removing it. I had a few requests to Magnaflow when I dropped the car off and luckily they did a good job of routing it so I could pull the tranny without totally removing the exhaust.

As far as diagnosing the vibration I did start it up with the clutch removed and just the flywheel installed. Vibration was still there. Today I dropped the flywheel and pressure plate off to get checked and rebalanced if necessary. They won't have it done until next Tuesday at the earliest so I have until then to wonder about the motor lol.

Also found another present from Pomona Valley Customs in the form of a stripped bolt into my block at the top of the bell housing. They installed a totally different thread than the rest of the bolts. What a bunch of friggen yahoos.

I never drain the transmission except when I mean to change fluid. Instead I use one of these, which you can get in almost any auto parts store:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/4366/img1130small.jpg

They seal really well. I needed to put the tape on mine to fill in the gap between the normal size rear seal and the larger seal in the Viper T56 .

The bolt situation on these cars is really a pain. The M10-1.5 metric bolts are almost the same size and thread as a 3/8-16 SAE bolt. If you have both sitting around, you really need to pay attention.

[GregWeld]

I wouldn't just re-tap the aluminum hole... I'd go with a HeliCoil if you have decent access to it.

My old rule is do it right the first time -- and then you don't have to worry about it forever and ever.

Sorry you're having these issues!

[Chad-1stGen]

Good luck with the Flywheel and Clutch. I hope that the fact you got the engine at such a big discount dosen't have anything to do with a potential crank balance problem.:question:

Anyway, just as a reminder I re-tapped several of those case holes because they had SAE bolts instead of the metric. And some of them seamed on the loose side because of the prior damage. You could just re-tap the stripped to the next size up and/or thread pitch.

Man, sounds like you just can't get a break with this thing.:faint:

Yeah I remember that Brett. Those were the bolts from the trans to the bell housing and in fact I think they are all ok. Have torqued those bolts myself and BOS did with no issues. This new present is from the bell housing to the motor. I don't think you removed that right? I was also assuming BOS didn't remove it though I guess I can ask them.

You aren't the first to raise that question on the motor Brett. I just have a seriously hard time believing the previous owner knew something was wrong. The motor was way too pristine and the dust way too thick lol. I honestly don't think it ever came out of the crate before I took it out. There is a whole list of things I went through that convinced me this motor was never fired after leaving Mast. So if something is wrong with the balance job on the motor I'm convinced it shipped that way from Mast.

I never drain the transmission except when I mean to change fluid. Instead I use one of these, which you can get in almost any auto parts store:

They seal really well. I needed to put the tape on mine to fill in the gap between the normal size rear seal and the larger seal in the Viper T56 .

The bolt situation on these cars is really a pain. The M10-1.5 metric bolts are almost the same size and thread as a 3/8-16 SAE bolt. If you have both sitting around, you really need to pay attention.

That's a cool gizmo. Live and learn!! I was reminded of using a spare yoke trick but never seen anything made for it. I will be looking for one before I reinstall for sure.

[Chad-1stGen]

I wouldn't just re-tap the aluminum hole... I'd go with a HeliCoil if you have decent access to it.

My old rule is do it right the first time -- and then you don't have to worry about it forever and ever.

Sorry you're having these issues!

Thanks Greg. I've got until at least Tuesday before the clutch and flywheel will be ready. At first I had a bit of "sticker shock" at the turnaround time but then realized I've got PLENTY of other stuff to work on lol! I plan on spending some of that time checking all the threads on the motor as well as pulling the pan so I can check the oil tube o-ring.

[67zo6Camaro]

I wouldn't just re-tap the aluminum hole... I'd go with a HeliCoil if you have decent access to it.

My old rule is do it right the first time -- and then you don't have to worry about it forever and ever.

Sorry you're having these issues!

HeliCoil ? the only ones Im familiar with are the spriral type, Which is actually just putting a wound up piece of wire in the hole to make up the difference in the thread gap. Am I thinking of something different? because those work like shiat.

FYI, my advise to re-tap actually means drill larger hole and... well re-tap to the next size. It's basically the same as a new hole, just bigger. I don't recommend re-tapping to the next size by just the means of putting a larger tap in the stripped hole.

Anyway, got any pictures of the HeliCoil system you are talking about?

[67zo6Camaro]

Yeah I remember that Brett. Those were the bolts from the trans to the bell housing and in fact I think they are all ok. Have torqued those bolts myself and BOS did with no issues. This new present is from the bell housing to the motor. I don't think you removed that right?

Chad, just went back and looked at some of my pictures of your car. I think you may be right, I did not remove the bellhousing to start cutting the tunnel. I forgot you have an OEM aluminum bellhousing, and I remember re-tapping aluminum. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Yeah -- HeliCoil is a "thread repair".... not a complete drill and re tap.

I've had great success with the several that I've used and keep them "in stock" in the shed for those occasions when they need to be used. Never once had an issue with them.

The problem for most guys ----- he's drilling into the block not just running a drill through a bellhousing hole.... and he won't have a bottoming tap... and access might be an issue etc.

[rsk68]

In aluminum helicoils inserted correctly are as strong as threads with no helicoils , they are designed for holes that will see repeated dis assembly, you can buy a helicoil repair kit for any size hole from mcmaster Carr delivered next day!

[Chad-1stGen]

Mini update from work over the weekend.

I got the oil pan off the motor. Decided it was easier to take the hood off and hoist the motor up a few inches than drop the rack. However, my confidence in the cheap/easy fix is shaken. The oil pump pick up tube o-ring looked to be in perfect shape and installed correctly. Just to be on the safe side I picked up two new o-rings from the dealer on the way to work this morning.

GM makes 3 different sized o-rings. My online reading has shown that all of the oil pumps are the same size but that the pick up tube itself has different sizes and you match the o-ring to the pick up.

Stolen from a 2009 Ls1tech.com post:
They are color coded for a reason, like stated above, if the pickup tube has a recessed area where the o-ring goes you need the thicker RED o-ring. The trucks use this design.

GM Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring (1st Design)
12557752

BLUE SEAL
Specifics:

* Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring ea.
* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (1999-2000 LS V8) 1st design
* F-Body (1998-2002)
* Cadillac CTS-V (2004-2007)
* Corvette (1997-2008)
* Thickness = 3.55mm (0.140")
ID = 23.60mm (0.930")



GM Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring (2nd Design)
12584922

RED SEAL
Specifics:

* Oil Pick-Up Tube O-Ring ea.
* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (1999-2000 LS V8 engines with 2nd design pick-up tube)
* Trailblazer (2003-2008 With LS V8 engine)
* Hummer H2 (2003-2008)
* Hummer H3 (2008 With LS V8 engine)
* Chevy/GMC Pick-Up (2001-2008 LS V8 engines)
* W- Body (2006-2008 With LS V8 engine - Impala, Lacrosse, Grand Prix)
* Thickness = 4.20mm (0.165")
ID = 20.69mm (0.815")

The green I believe is even thicker than the red design but can't find those specs right now.

My Autokraft pan came with the blue o-ring but I bought both a blue and red o-ring today at the dealer. The fit with the blue o-ring that came with my pan just doesn't feel that snug when playing around with it this weekend. So tonight I will try both the red and blue o-ring. My online research showed some folks and shops/dealers using the red o-ring even in fbody/corvette applications with better success rates.