Vendor Feedback

[XcYZ]

Well, things seem to have been getting out of control after the fiasco with Prodigy, and we need to establish some order.

I have to say first, that IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A VENDOR, TALK TO THE VENDOR.


Moving on...

I'm looking for feedback from you guys about creating a Vendor Feedback section. A place where you can give your personal, first person experience. I don't want hearsay or something that has been posted on some random person's Facebook. We also have to figure out how to control the agendas. I've caught people creating fake usernames here on our site only to make accusations and create bad publicity. They clearly had an agenda and I shut it down.

Regardless of how we approach this, I can't just let the constant bashing continue. It really goes against everything we've done to get to this point.

What say you?

[MaxHarvard]

I think it could be extremely useful.

The only concern I would have is that it would have to remain VERY civil and almost be self-policed.

Sort of an honor system of sorts.

Hope it works! :)

~Eric

[XcYZ]

Well, it won't be self policed. If we do something like this, each thread will be manually moderated and approved. I also think that each thread will be closed, no responses/replies except for maybe if it's a negative posting, I'd allow the accused to have their rebuttal.

[BBC69Camaro]

Well, it won't be self policed. If we do something like this, each thread will be manually moderated and approved. I also think that each thread will be closed, no responses/replies except for maybe if it's a negative posting, I'd allow the accused to have their rebuttal.

I think its a great idea, that model seems to be working over at Pt.com. I know its moderator intensive but some way to factually present problems with a vendor if you have it (as a last resort after you can't get any resolution via phone, email etc), would be great.

[Mkelcy]

I think it's a good idea IF we can keep it factual and useful and not a vendor bashfest.

I was very pleased that L-G's concern in the Prodigy thread was protecting the members, even at the cost of terminating a sponsor. That buys a lot of site loyalty with me. (By the way is there a way to contribute without going through the evil empire of PayPal?) The Prodigy thread here may have been messy, but I liked the way it was handled here much better than the way it was (not) handled at Pro-Touring.

To avoid people taking advantage of a Vendor Feedback forum, maybe (1) require some minimum number of posts/years of membership before anyone can start such a thread, (2) if practical and not burdensome on the mods, require a pre-posting review of the facts and the member's attempts to resolve the issue with the vendor, and (3) a strict policy of no-vendor bashing in non-Vendor Feedback threads (I don't mean part quality or fit, I mean "I have a monetary issue" threads).

A forum that allowed people to do a little due diligence before spending hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of dollars with a vendor would be a great service to the community.

[DOOM]

Nice Idea Mike!!!!

[XcYZ]

I think it's a good idea IF we can keep it factual and useful and not a vendor bashfest.

I was very pleased that L-G's concern in the Prodigy thread was protecting the members, even at the cost of terminating a sponsor. That buys a lot of site loyalty with me. (By the way is there a way to contribute without going through the evil empire of PayPal?) The Prodigy thread here may have been messy, but I liked the way it was handled here much better than the way it was (not) handled at Pro-Touring.

To avoid people taking advantage of a Vendor Feedback forum, maybe (1) require some minimum number of posts/years of membership before anyone can start such a thread, (2) if practical and not burdensome on the mods, require a pre-posting review of the facts and the member's attempts to resolve the issue with the vendor, and (3) a strict policy of no-vendor bashing in non-Vendor Feedback threads (I don't mean part quality or fit, I mean "I have a monetary issue" threads).

A forum that allowed people to do a little due diligence before spending hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of dollars with a vendor would be a great service to the community.

Mike, that's great feedback. I really like the idea of being a member for a certain amount of time/certain amount of posts before you can create a thread in that section. All 3 of your points are excellent. :cheers:

[dhutton]

I think moderators with a prior business relationship with a vendor should exclude themselves from moderating any feedback threads for that vendor....

Don

[elitecustombody]

I agree,feedback section vendor or regular member would be helpful,it will keep slacking vendors in-check .Just so the the thread doesn't get cluttered up ,let only involved parties post and resolve the issue.Keep it civil,post factual information and I think it will work.

Lateral-G is a great site with a good bunch of amazing folks,let's keep it that way:lateral:

[2Bad4Ya]

I dunno keeping it policed would be a challenge, would have to set up some pretty strict guidelines up front I think. Otherwise it could just become skewed, by fanboi's or people just looking to bash someone.

Keep to some kind of post format at least:


vendor name
product
issue
attempts to resolve issue w/vendor


Posts w/o that info would be deleted posts that went overboard and turned into bashing get removed also. There is nothing wrong with blowing off steam but a vendor feedback channel isn't really the place imo. Vent your anger with the vendor and just post up the facts on here, and let everyone make their own opinions of the vendor/poster.

[Mkelcy]

Just so the the thread doesn't get cluttered up ,let only involved parties post and resolve the issue

The one exception I'd make is a mod pre-cleared "I have the same issue" post from someone other than the OP. And of course the Vendor Feedback forum should be available for all to see or else it's useless.

[DriverzInc]

It can be good and bad.

It needs to be an arena where not every alter ego'd, internet warrior can openly complain about every little thing. Like I'm missing a lug nut, or a 3/8s bolt.

I think the original post should be hidden, and sent to a moderator to review, and if its a valid complaint, and if its constructive to openly post it, then post it. If it can be "moderated" behind the scenes, then go that route.

I'm just warning you guys ahead of time of what will happen if its open free willy nilly.

If every internet jockey armed with a keyboard can post uncontrolled, not only myself, but I'm sure other vendors will eventually discontinue to support good sites like this one. Its tiring, discouraging, and majorly time consuming to monitor every post that could remotely be interpreted badly, when we should be working in the shop to complete other orders. Now we have to come on here, explain our side of what really went down, and leave it up to the readers to decide, regardless if they have the whole story or not. I'm dealing with a guy right now, where our tire vendor failed to drop ship set a tires to Forgeline the week of July 4th. And when we found out about I ate Fedex Express charges from them to me, and from me back to Ohio, and his order was delayed by 4 weeks because of it. Now its up all over the boards about how we suck, but we did everything we could, given the situation, possible, minus going in the whole profit wise, which included eating 300 bucks in shipping fees.

For every 10 orders that go out the door on time, and correct, there's always one that will go out late, or minus a lug kit, or (whatever) and if that guy gets to come on here and post in capital letters THIS VENDOR SUCKS, that good, hard working , intelligent an helpful vendor will start to hurt, and in a market where there's no profit margin in any of what we do (which is another rant I'll go off later) nobody will be left to ask questions of, or look to for help, or advice.

So move forward with caution, and intelligence folks, and really think about how to set this one up.

[69MyWay]

I think folks that have a beef will find a way to post it given a specific spot for it or not. These things will bubble out one way or the other.

Usually by the time things get posted the customer service relationship has been sliding downhill and it is already explosive.

So, trying to get people to look for a designated moderated outlet to air their feedback (when negative) will be difficult to direct.

[garickman]

I think a vendor feedback forum is a much needed tool for public forums such as this one. Here are a couple of thoughts of what I think might work.

Here is what I don't think;

1. I do not think a specific number of posts before the member can post in the feedback forum would be fair. After all, you don't know when you are going to have a good or bad experience with a vendor.

2. I do not think there should be any pre-approval by the monitors before the member can post in the feedback forum. It is the members experience and should be factually told in the members own words.

Here is what I do think;

1. I think when you start a thread in the feedback forum, there should be two check boxes before you can start the the thread. One box for positive comments and one box for negative comments. If the box is checked positive, the thread should be open for all to read and respond, so long as the rules state no negative comments are allowed to be posted in a positive thread. If the negative box is checked, only the original poster and the vendor will be allowed to post in that particular thread. This will negate the "piling on effect" of bashing a vendor with the he said she said comments.

2. If a negative thread is started, I think the vendor should be notified by a monitor that a negative thread was started. The monitor should then post in the negative thread of the date and time the vendor in question was notified. This will allow the readers to know that the vendor is aware of the thread. The readers can then determine on thier own based on the vendors response or lack thereof if this is someone they want to do business with.

3. If another member all of a sudden wants to post that they have had a similar issue, they can start a new thread, this way it will keep it factual to their specific situation with the said vendor.

[ironworks]

I think there will have to be huge guidelines. I also think there should be a customer feedback section.

I think it should be a form that is filled out in checked boxes. Their rant is limited to a certain amount of words. I understand that post cont does not mean anything but I think if your going to bitch about some one you should have to have been here for a certain amount of time. Post count may not mean anything. I also think that the original poster should have to see the vote place by the rest of us as to whether they are a moron. Some of these rants are just stupid.

Also if they do not post their rant in the correct section, they should have posting privileges suspended. Heck there was guy trying to sell brake calipers in the open discussion section a few days ago. Just cuz your part does not get enough action in the Classifieds doe snot mean you need to incorrectly post it.

This place is about cars and people. I look at it as Disneyland for car guys. But all this beauty parlor drama bitching stuff has to stop. I hang out here 100 times more then any site, and I like the vibe and feel of this site.

Just like in the garage bench racing with your buddies if you act like a fool and speak rudely you may not be asked back. I think it should be the same here. Scott does not have to let anyone be a member. There is a time and place for everything.

[2Bad4Ya]

the venue will need moderation and a minium post count is a good thing. People will inflate the site with fake id's just to bash someone or promote their own agenda more often than not. We are mostly adults but that does not mean we always act mature.

[MaxHarvard]

Well, it won't be self policed. If we do something like this, each thread will be manually moderated and approved. I also think that each thread will be closed, no responses/replies except for maybe if it's a negative posting, I'd allow the accused to have their rebuttal.

I guess by 'self-policed' I meant to say more of an "honor system" which is to say that if you are going to go off spouting whatever, the OP needs to really take a good honest and objective look at the situation.

Just my $.02

~Eric

[DriverzInc]

I think there will have to be huge guidelines. I also think there should be a customer feedback section.


AGREED. Which is just the point I've made before too. I think this would be beneficial for vendors to know when there are customers out there that are problematic as well.

I also think that the original poster should have to see the vote place by the rest of us as to whether they are a moron. Some of these rants are just stupid.


Thank God someone else feels the way I do.

[BBC69Camaro]

I also think that the original poster should have to see the vote place by the rest of us as to whether they are a moron. Some of these rants are just stupid.

That is an interesting idea, coupled with a requirement to have been a member for a certain period of time, might make that effective.

[70rs]

I also feel a feedback section is needed. But I also agree with Roger on his last post. All of it.

[Mkelcy]

I also think that the original poster should have to see the vote place by the rest of us as to whether they are a moron. Some of these rants are just stupid.
That is an interesting idea, coupled with a requirement to have been a member for a certain period of time, might make that effective.

In the Vendor Feedback forum, what would people think about suspending the OP's posting privileges for some period if they were on the wrong side of a "righteous beef/you're a moron" vote? It might make the OP take the whole thing a little more seriously if there were a consequence, however small, for being a jerk.

I agree with the customer feedback forum as well, perhaps with the same pre-screened approach before a post could be made.

[Vegas69]

It has to be a positive and negative feedback forum. I also feel their needs to be questions similar to a survey on how your car was serviced at the dealer.

Responsiveness
Timeline as promised
Overall Experience
Etc.

1-5 or whatever you see fit.

As a consumer, I don't expect anybody to be perfect. Unfortunately, more negative posters will use the forum naturally. Vendors could then ask for feedback at their clients option.

[JustinB]

My issue is mistakes happen. Some customers understand and appreciate the effort made to remedy the situation and some fly off the deep end and threaten to post about it online hoping to take the business down. Hell, I wake up nightly thinking about customers orders and what needs to get done to expedite purchases. We take our work home with us and it effects us personally and our families. One upset customer can cost us thousands of dollars and hours online trying to explain the situation. What never gets mentions is the hundreds of phone calls, email, and pm we respond to weekly "helping" fellow forum members out. From brakes clearing summit racing wheels to I am buying these wheels off ebay can you tell me if they will fit and what tires should I order from my local tire supplier, just to name a few of different situations. We do not profit from this advice and help guys for the simple fact that we like to help. For every 100 happy customers there is one that is pissed for what ever reason, he is the one that posts.

[70rs]

I am sure I am not the only member who is sick and tired of the bitching, whining, sarcasm and "opinions" that are always piled on in these complaint threads.

IF.....big IF just the facts are presented as mentioned earlier here, without the personal attacks then this idea will work.

If the feedback post strays AT ALL from just the bare facts then delete it.
We really dont need a phonebook sized list of guidelines.

Post the problem. Post the vendor. Post what has been done to try and resolve the issue (and if posting here is the first attempt at resolve, you're a dumbass)

Let the vendor respond. And let the vendors monitor this thread for thier names. The mods shouldn't have to notify anyone.

The first post that is sarcastic, a personal attack, strays from facts or jumped on by anyone other than the vendor and OP should get the whole thread dumped.

This site is head and shoulders above ANY other. In the past the BS has not been tollerated. Why start now? We have a good thing going here, lets keep it that way.

[ironworks]

Another thought, if the post was delayed in posting, it would give the mods a time to contact the vendor and see if they are aware. If they are not, then the original poster has not contacted the vendor or the vendor is lying. If this is a common problem, then obviously the vendor is well aware.

I hate the guys who just post and complain but have not contacted the vendor as of yet over something dumb.

Rodger

[camcojb]

Another thought, if the post was delayed in posting, it would give the mods a time to contact the vendor and see if they are aware. If they are not, then the original poster has not contacted the vendor or the vendor is lying. If this is a common problem, then obviously the vendor is well aware.

I hate the guys who just post and complain but have not contacted the vendor as of yet over something dumb.

Rodger
the initial thread and all subsequent posts will go through us before being seen by the members on the site. Will add some time to the mods but nothing we can't handle.

I am gonna ask for a raise though............... :lol:

[fesler]

Scott, I would love to know how this will be handled since anyone can post anything. There are a few up here that just like to jump the band wagon and don't get the facts. For example You and several others did nothing in the ring bash against Fesler to help the situation. They stated incorrect news and some of you just went with it. Facts are facts and I am here to make parts, we do everything in house and we spend months on it. I want to know how you will police this and control the BS because if you don't like someone it will be negative no matter what.

[camcojb]

Scott, I would love to know how this will be handled since anyone can post anything. There are a few up here that just like to jump the band wagon and don't get the facts. For example You and several others did nothing in the ring bash against Fesler to help the situation. They stated incorrect news and some of you just went with it. Facts are facts and I am here to make parts, we do everything in house and we spend months on it. I want to know how you will police this and control the BS because if you don't like someone it will be negative no matter what.
since I am not sure, how do they handle it on PT? Are you happy or unhappy with what is posted over there in that section?

Feedback would be appreciated Chris.

[fesler]

since I am not sure, how do they handle it on PT? Are you happy or unhappy with what is posted over there in that section?

Feedback would be appreciated Chris.

The problems are different it's like Jon said no matter what you do right someone will find a way to complain about one thing and blast you for it. PT has a different group for me they complain about things but they don't blast about them. Everyone over there acts older for things like this and when people just start talking crap about something they know nothing about it hurts everyone. I know everyone is not going to like everyone or every company but it's time for guys to grow up and talk about things by picking up a phone not coming up here to just blast.

PT let's the post that should be there stay up and removes the guys that just bash and know nothing. They let both companies post and lock it up. At the end of they day that should not even be up. I got blasted with incorrect info, if you look at the facts they are what they are and I know some of you like others over others and that is where this will all go wrong.

[camcojb]

PT has a different group for me they complain about things but they don't blast about them. Everyone over there acts older for things like this
I appreciate your input Chris. Shows that for each person their view of a site is different. We've had many pm's and phone calls in the past from vendors and members who think our site is the adult one, and PT is a bash-fest. This is no slam on those guys, I like the site and have many friends over there. Just shows how perception differs from person to person.

Thanks again.

[realcoray]

I think having it in one place with moderation would be a huge start. The previous one that was let run it's course started with a coherent message explaining the problem. I thought it was handled perfectly here and not so much at other sites it came up on.

I could think of 10 ways to extend the voting concept, but I'd really like it if I could just click something in one of these threads to support the vendors side since sometimes we see some pretty unreasonable and incoherent feedback where it's clearly not the vendors fault.

[novanutcase]

The whole concept of a vendor feedback section is to provide those that are thinking of working with said company the information they will need in making that decision along with giving a voice to those that feel that they are not being treated fairly and have tried to resolve the issue but haven't had any success in taking care of it with said company. I think it's also an excellent place for vendors to demonstrate the level of customer service that they can/will provide both to the OP and any future customers that are considering working with them.

Whatever issue the OP has needs to be confined to ONLY he/her and the company that they are having issue with. No one else needs to comment. It's for them to work out. The fact that the locked discussion is able to be viewed publicly should be enough info for those that need to make a determination as to what really is the root of the problem and whether they want to work with that company or not. To let others in on the ongoing issue is only going to egg on those that enjoy bashing for bashings sake. Let's keep the crybaby/dumbass quotient to a minimum.

Whatever comments anyone outside of the thread may have can be addressed in PM to the respective party. Again, this will keep the crybaby/dumbass quotient to a minimum and won't clutter up the thread with useless storytelling and thread jacking.

Each party in the discussion will post not only their reasoning for their position in the argument but they will need to back it up with documentation, i.e. emails, invoices, etc. This way ONLY the facts are being presented and emotion and outside influences stay out of it.

I'd also like to suggest that a sticky be created at the top of the section with an outline of suggestions about working with companies from the onset and the documentation that one should keep in case an issue arises along with a procedural check list for resolution one should use prior to posting on sites like this.

JMO

John

[XcYZ]

Whatever we do, IF we do it, will only be done after a lot of thought. This is only being considered because of all the melt down as of late.

The reason to have a feedback section is purely to protect all of us, the community, from being ripped off. It won't be a place to complain about how a member thinks they could have gotten another .250" of backspacing in a set of wheels or any of that kind of stuff.

We recently booted a vendor for messing with peoples money. For example, one of our members ordered an LS motor in January, and as of Columbus, they still didnt have it, couldnt get a refund, or even a phone call returned. THAT's what we need to have protection from. THAT is the reason we're considering it.

[4mm]

You guys should check out how this site handles and moderates feedback. Read the guidelines and look at some of the threads there to note that it does not get out of hand. It's simple and effective IMO.

Only members with direct experience are allowed to post.

http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=95

[camcojb]

We recently booted a vendor for messing with peoples money. For example, one of our members ordered an LS motor in January, and as of Columbus, they still didnt have it, couldnt get a refund, or even a phone call returned. THAT's what we need to have protection from. THAT is the reason we're considering it.
and in case anyone is wondering, the motor was in stock on the shelf at the engine builders, and had been throughout the several month period that the customer had paid for it. Problem is, the vendor (who has the customers money) had not ordered it, apparently using the money for something else.

[garickman]

I think a vendor feedback forum is a much needed tool for public forums such as this one. Here are a couple of thoughts of what I think might work.

Here is what I don't think;

1. I do not think a specific number of posts before the member can post in the feedback forum would be fair. After all, you don't know when you are going to have a good or bad experience with a vendor.

2. I do not think there should be any pre-approval by the monitors before the member can post in the feedback forum. It is the members experience and should be factually told in the members own words.

Here is what I do think;

1. I think when you start a thread in the feedback forum, there should be two check boxes before you can start the the thread. One box for positive comments and one box for negative comments. If the box is checked positive, the thread should be open for all to read and respond, so long as the rules state no negative comments are allowed to be posted in a positive thread. If the negative box is checked, only the original poster and the vendor will be allowed to post in that particular thread. This will negate the "piling on effect" of bashing a vendor with the he said she said comments.

2. If a negative thread is started, I think the vendor should be notified by a monitor that a negative thread was started. The monitor should then post in the negative thread of the date and time the vendor in question was notified. This will allow the readers to know that the vendor is aware of the thread. The readers can then determine on thier own based on the vendors response or lack thereof if this is someone they want to do business with.

3. If another member all of a sudden wants to post that they have had a similar issue, they can start a new thread, this way it will keep it factual to their specific situation with the said vendor.

After writing the above post, and reading some of the posts from vendors on both this site and over at PT, I must change my mind about how I feel on this topic.

It seems that no matter how you can administer a feedback forum, it will never be fair to the vendors or the moderators. The bottom line is that we as the readers will NEVER know if the original poster is telling 100% of the truth. We simply weren't involved in every conversation, phone call or email. Every single time one of these "Bad Experience" threads pops up, the vendor and customer have completley different stories. It is virtually imposible for us as a third party reader to determine where the truth lies, and as popular as these forums are, these types of threads can literally ruin someones business. It is not fair that the monitors should have to spend extra time babysitting this type of feedback forum, and it is certainly not fair to any vendor to have to spend thier valuable work time to come on and defend themselves about something which may or may not be true.

I say that if a member has that big of a negative experience with the vendor they should start a thread that says "I have had a bad experience with a vendor from this site, if you want the details please PM me and I will provide them to you" At least this way the original poster can spend their valuable personal time explaining what may or may not have happened.

I am not sure but I think it was Jon from Drivers Inc. that brought up a valuable point, most people who use this forum will use it for negative experiences, and unless we know how many customers, or how many phone calls, or emails the vendor responds to on a daily basis, we have no way true way to gauge this vendors business habits. If they get one complaint a month but they handle 500 customers per month, I would say that is pretty good customer service. If they get one complaint a month and only handle 5 customers, then that's pretty bad.

To me the bottom line is this, it is still up to the customer to do their homework on who they want to purchase their products from, or who they want to build thier car. I to have been guilty of jumping on the "piling on bandwagon" in the past and after going back and reading those threads, I sometimes wish I never posted anything at all.

[Vegas69]

OR:unibrow: Forget this whole vendor feedback deal and create a 3,6,9 etc. strikes you're out policy with all your sponsors. If you come to the conclusion that the plantiff is in the right and it deserves real attention, strike one. (Pick up the phone if needed) If the sponsor becomes to much work and it's clearly a trend, you're gone.

I just see the vendor feedback forum being a real burden on the moderators.(Jody):lol:

[70rs]

Whatever we do, IF we do it, will only be done after a lot of thought. This is only being considered because of all the melt down as of late.

The reason to have a feedback section is purely to protect all of us, the community, from being ripped off. It won't be a place to complain about how a member thinks they could have gotten another .250" of backspacing in a set of wheels or any of that kind of stuff.

We recently booted a vendor for messing with peoples money. For example, one of our members ordered an LS motor in January, and as of Columbus, they still didnt have it, couldnt get a refund, or even a phone call returned. THAT's what we need to have protection from. THAT is the reason we're considering it.

Scott & Jody,

Regardless of how or when you put a feedback section on the site I would like to say thanks for a couple of things.
1 for recognizing there is a real problem with the complaints.

2 for being open minded to finding a solution and asking for input on how to handle the problem in the first place.

3 for caring enough about all of us to give us the option for a formal public forum to try and get issues resolved in a mature way. Including the vendors. I am sure more than one vendor has been burned by a customer, yet do we ever hear about that?

These complaints tend to come from the consumer. But what about the vendors? What about cheap ass thieves? Stop payments/bad checks? CC disputes after parts are received? Real money issues, not just everyone working some angle to get "sponsored" or "include shipping". Those guys are bad enough. The vendors have to make a living. Why beat them up over a few bucks when in the scope of the project it will never matter that you saved a bit here and there. The projects are "toys" on the customer end. But its how the vendors earn a living. Would you like it if you had to take a pay cut at work just because some customer had thier panties in a knot over a few bucks? No. Do you negotiate prices at the checkout counter at the grocery store? No. Home Depot? No.
With your utilities, cable, gas for your car, clothes......
You get the point. Why beat up our vendors who bend over backwards to give us free advice, free design consults, free tech info we can't get elsewhere or as easy?
These guys take really good care of us, right here on this FREE site.
I like a good deal as much as the next guy. But I also know what it's like having to give all those "freebies" out and how it affects the bottom line.
Next time you ask for that deal to include shipping, ask yourself if you are willing to take that amount from your bank account and throw it out the window. Because that is exactly what you're asking our vendors to do with discounts, deals, sponsorship.......
On the note of sponsorship, I get it if the publicity the finished car will get is worth it to the vendor. And if the vendor actually asks to be involved in the first place. Sponsorship has been a huge part of the automotive/motorsports industries. I get it. But a 5 year garage build, never published, local show only, never raced kind of build.....why even ask? Thats just taking food off the plate of that vendors family.
If you are building a 20k, 50k, 250k project, does the tax, shipping or 10% discount you are asking for really make a difference to you?
It does to that vendor that you just put on the spot by asking for discounts. Being offered to you is one thing. Asking for it is just like asking them to hand you cash from thier pocket. How do you react when someone asks you for money? Kind of uncomfortable huh? You might say yes just to get out of the situation, or to be a "nice guy".
Being a nice guy in business does not keep the door open and the lights on.
We are all equal. None of us are special. Let's treat the guys who take care of our project needs a little better huh?

Sorry, rant over.

[DOOM]

Thats a good one Todd nice and simple.......

[John510]

I agree we need a "Yelp" of sorts for the vendors. Im the guilty one of posting about Frank but after numerous contacts for months he still never responded. I made a post and Voila! I have a check in hand next day for my credit.

[lutzy]

. For every 10 orders that go out the door on time, and correct, there's always one that will go out late, or minus a lug kit, or (whatever)

Mine went out a month late and missing a lug nut kit..So whats that 1 in ??
I wouldnt of been pissed if I wasnt being stringed along and telling me one thing and having wind blown up my A$$. I shouldnt have been the one making all the calls tracking down where my stuff is. I shouldnt of been the one to find out after all this mess that you sent the tires off to the wrong address again...If it wasnt for me I would still be waiting on my wheels. I also want to thank you for telling me that I would receive my lug nut kit today..Im sure fed ex or UPS dosent deliver after 8pm..So I guess once again I get a song and a dance..thanks. Just mail me back my money. Im only posting this because as usual I get no response to emails or phone calls...

[ironworks]

Mine went out a month late and missing a lug nut kit..So whats that 1 in ??
I wouldnt of been pissed if I wasnt being stringed along and telling me one thing and having wind blown up my A$$. I shouldnt have been the one making all the calls tracking down where my stuff is. I shouldnt of been the one to find out after all this mess that you sent the tires off to the wrong address again...If it wasnt for me I would still be waiting on my wheels. I also want to thank you for telling me that I would receive my lug nut kit today..Im sure fed ex or UPS dosent deliver after 8pm..So I guess once again I get a song and a dance..thanks. Just mail me back my money. Im only posting this because as usual I get no response to emails or phone calls...

Perfect example of a guy that should be banned. I don't care if he is 100% right, this is not the way to handle this crap on this site. It reminds me of fighting with my little sister when I was a kid. I mean seriously??????

[fesler]

This is what I was talking about, no matter how you do things someone will be pissed about something and no matter what you do they wont be happy and they will bash.

[carbuff]

As the person who started the "Prodigy experience" thread, I definitely have some thoughts on this topic...

I'm not going to pretend to have a 'good' solution to the problem that the moderators of these sites face. But I feel that it is a problem that needs to be addressed in some way. When I was making my purchasing decisions, I couldn't find much "real" feedback on any of the vendors that I was considering. Lots of "he's great" or hearsay, but rarely any constructive real-world experiences. I ultimately considered only vendors that sponsored the forums that I visit when selecting who to purchase from though.

I'm also one of those people who doesn't post a lot (and thus have a low post count) on the various forums that I frequent, even though I've been a member at most of them for a very long time. I do, however, consume a ton of information from them, and I am appreciative of the people that are behind the scenes to support them.

When I chose to post my experience here, I did so consciously choosing Lat-G instead of PT. Why? Because it's been my experience that threads like that generally are handled in a more mature manner here. If I had posted that same thread at PT (which I did want to do since I'm also a long time member there as well), it most likely would have been locked immediately. At least that's my experience between the two sites.

Having a way that customers can express a negative experience without feeling like they will be chastised is important. I don't mean to pile on with this post, but more than one person contacted me privately with a "me too, but I was afraid to post" type of PM. If multiple people are having bad experiences but are avoiding posting for fear of being criticized, then the 'feedback' system, or sharing of knowledge that these forums are all about, is broken.

And to the vendors that read this, I can see how it is frustrating when people lash out publicly without trying to resolve their situation in private. Hopefully you can also see that while that one customer may be only 1 of 100 that you are dealing with at any given time, to that customer, you are often the only person that they are dealing with. For the money that we often spend with any given vendor, we want and expect a 'quality' experience. Admittedly, a customer publicly complaining about a "missing lugnut" is petty on their part, but if that customer has tried and tried to get their missing lugnut with no luck, that's an experience that perhaps others might want to know about.

Unfortunately we all have different definitions of what is considered "acceptable" levels of performance/execution during these transactions. And while it mostly goes smoothly here at Lat-G, those different definitions are why we can't truly be 'self-policing'.

As to how to actually address the problem:

I'm not personally in favor of a "voting whether the OP is a dumbass or not" mechanism. I don't see how that's all that helpful. The words in a thread should speak for themselves. I think most of us here can read threads and know who is offering up valuable feedback and who is just "piling on" or criticizing with no real facts to back it up.

I'm mixed on the idea of hiding a thread until a moderator approves it. The comment that someone made about a moderator shouldn't be in the position to make that decision if they have business experiences with the vendor in question is very valid I think. But this is perhaps the best method to keep out the people that try to bash over little things.

I don't think that it's the moderators responsibility to intervene in a dispute either. If they happen to have a relationship with a vendor and can help, then fine. But they don't owe that to anyone. It is prudent for them to want to have sponsors for their site that are stand-up / responsible to promote good will and generally better the community we have here.

Sorry for the ramble. I obviously have lots of thoughts on this topic, just not very well organized. :)

[fesler]

I appreciate your input Chris. Shows that for each person their view of a site is different. We've had many pm's and phone calls in the past from vendors and members who think our site is the adult one, and PT is a bash-fest. This is no slam on those guys, I like the site and have many friends over there. Just shows how perception differs from person to person.

Thanks again.

Yes I agree with both, for us we don't have as many bashes over there but that is because we don't get the guys that really hate us going on about how we did something wrong. Its what Jon was talking about and that it what the issue is

I think its simple for both sides here if vendors want to sell things call them up and see how there phones are, we have 4 people that answer the phones everyday and if someone says we dont pick up they are not calling, or shoot us an email it may take a few days to get back to you but we answer them all. Sometimes its just not fast enough for people

Its as easy as that we answer the phones so we try and help everyone but we do get busy. I hate the he said she said and that is why I have issues on this site because I call people out and they dont like that. We try to please everyone but you know that you cant always do that but we try.

[2Bad4Ya]

Perfect example of a guy that should be banned. I don't care if he is 100% right, this is not the way to handle this crap on this site. It reminds me of fighting with my little sister when I was a kid. I mean seriously??????

Why should he be banned? Yeah his post was not in the spirit of the discussion, but hell its the internet that happens every other thread.

Sorry, but seeing a vendor post comments like banning a user over a post like that just makes me less interested in doing business with that vendor. The price of the internet and doing business is how I see it. This tit/tat is example of why feedback forums can be tough to administer everyone on the internet is 50% bolder than they are in real life and as such less likely to throttle back their words.

Emotions & a keyboard = deadly duo, heck i have edited my post to account for emotions that ran thru in me about seeing the ban him post. perfect example.

[TheJDMan]

Perfect example of a guy that should be banned. I don't care if he is 100% right, this is not the way to handle this crap on this site. It reminds me of fighting with my little sister when I was a kid. I mean seriously??????

I agree that his rant is childish and more emotional than necessary, but he is not happy about the service he received and is expressing his frustration in a not so adult manor. That is not a reason to ban him or to suggest he should be banned. However, those are the kinds of discussions which should take place between the two parties involved and no one else.

[70rs]

So now even this thread is turning into a bitchfest......and yes, I know my part in that.

It seems that emotions get the best of us all at times.

But the focus of this particular thread was how to deal with vendor/customer complaints.
Its getting off track. There is no easy, simple solution that will please everyone.

Scott has had our input, opinions, advice, random thoughts......

Let's see if a section is created. If it is, great. Maybe then we can modify as needed depending on how well the threads adhere to some basic rules.
Try a "rough draft" for a comments section. See how it goes. ??

[JMitch19]

Whatever you do don't moderate it like Pt.com does. I work for an automotive aftermarket manufacture. We don't retail any of our products, but a few of the vendors here do.

There was a post on pt.com that was about quality and customer service or lack there of these days. I put together a very long thought out reply. Basically I just said that people need to take pride in what they are doing. Every part I test/inspect at work needs to be good enough to go on my car. If I'm not happy with it I'm not sending it to one of my customers. After finishing the reply it said that it needed to be reviewed by a mod before being posted. My post never made it into the thread. Neither I or the op dropped vendor names. It really made me want to take time out of my work day to contribute information in the future...

With that said Big thanks to Jon and Justin at Driverz Inc. for taking their time with me on my Fiske order. After a couple months and multiple phone calls I finally pulled the trigger on Monday.

[JustinB]

deleted.

[Vegas69]

I have to say that I do like what Larry and the boys have done over at PT.com in regards to the vendor/customer feed back forum. Meaning, only allowing the vendor/customer and moderator to comment on the thread. To me, it's another case of pure poltics. Everybody has an opinion on a matter they know very little about except for the story from two people that have their own best interest in mind. The problem I see is it's all negative. How professionally a vendor keeps his cool is important, but one bad apple can really hurt a good vendor.

I think I would prefer not to see the political bull **** at all, but I'm a big boy and I don't have to click on the thread. (Can you make it no pop up in the new posts?) I think politics tend to suck everybody in naturally. I know it does me on occassion. :unibrow:

Look at this thread de railing already.

Scott, you built a monster here and I think you have to rule with the gavel. My personal vote is still to have a thread removed until a moderator can make a determination and it can't be hear say. Prove it to me, when was the part ordered, photos, etc.... A vendors track record will eventually catch up to them. Let's keep the site clean and you dictate the sponsors as you see fit.

[garickman]

I have to say that I do like what Larry and the boys have done over at PT.com in regards to the vendor/customer feed back forum. Meaning, only allowing the vendor/customer and moderator to comment on the thread. To me, it's another case of pure poltics. Everybody has an opinion on a matter they know very little about except for the story from two people that have their own best interest in mind. The problem I see is it's all negative. How professionally a vendor keeps his cool is important, but one bad apple can really hurt a good vendor.

I think I would prefer not to see the political bull **** at all, but I'm a big boy and I don't have to click on the thread. (Can you make it no pop up in the new posts?) I think politics tend to suck everybody in naturally. I know it does me on occassion. :unibrow:

Look at this thread de railing already.

Scott, you built a monster here and I think you have to rule with the gavel. My personal vote is still to have a thread removed until a moderator can make a determination and it can't be hear say. Prove it to me, when was the part ordered, photos, etc.... A vendors track record will eventually catch up to them. Let's keep the site clean and you dictate the sponsors as you see fit.

I agree

[nvr2fst]

Scott,

You know I have had personal experience with the issues at hand in the past.
After exhalting my efforts, I came to you and John Parsons at PT to help with resolution. All and all I thank both sites for helping out.
If I recall it was dicussed privately with the moderators prior to posting.

Now my question, Do you plan on setting this up for sponsor and non sponsor vendors? And would there be different criteria between the two if so? There are several "parts" suppliers and shops that frequent here often that are not supporting vendors that we as the consumer deal with. Nothing wrong with that at all, there are alot of builds going on here that are by non sponsor shops. What Im getting at is that this could be ENDLESS if you know what I mean.
As I mentioned in my first paragraph, if the moderators had the time for legitimate grips I feel it would be best suited privately prior to public.

[camcojb]

sounds like it'd be easier to just go back to the "no vendor bashing allowed" and call it a day.

[Flash68]

sounds like it'd be easier to just go back to the "no vendor bashing allowed" and call it a day.

Amen.

Nearly every forum I've been on over the years without a feedback section like this always has a knee-jerk reaction to addressing a big vendor bash thread.

At the end of the day, this rarely even happens out of hundreds and hundreds of threads.... the status quo is pretty damn good I say.

[Bryan O]

Here's a proposed solution from left field. Perhaps the bleachers? :lol:

Ban all rants about vendors and collect hard data instead and come up with a vendor rating/score produced by the forum's members.

As an example, here's my data from all the vendors I have used for the build of my car over the last year. I had a positive experience with those vendors in green and a thumbs-up. I would do business with them again. Those with thumbs down and in red I had a negative experience with and probably would not do business with again.

:thumbsup: :
Prodigy Customs
Best of Show Coachworks
Michael Castiglione
Turn Key Engine Supply
Detroit Speed and Engineering
Marquez Design
Hurst Drivelin
Vintage Air
Wilwood
Classic Industries
Electro Tech media blasting
American Autowire
AMD
Fesler Built
Ron Davis
Flaming River
Spaghetti Wiring
Billet Specialties
Driver's Inc.
Jegs/AutoMeter
Summit
Ring Brothers
SoCal Desert Classics
Eddie Motorsports
Anvil
Clayton Machine

Budnik Wheels :thmbsdwn:

Part of my motivation for posting this is to show what I suspect is the norm. I don't think my experience is unusual. There are a lot more :thumbsup: than
:thmbsdwn: .

I suspect that when a particular vendor is truly going south the mods are aware of things. Stuff goes on behind the scenes and off-line so to speak.

So, take the he-said he-said emotion out and simply give members the opportunity to cast one vote for each vendor they use. Over time the cream will rise to the top. EOS.

Mods...good luck tabulating the data. :D

[Mkelcy]

I have to say that I do like what Larry and the boys have done over at PT.com in regards to the vendor/customer feed back forum.

So far as I can tell, the P-T way now is to resolve the dispute, while totally protecting the vendor from any public negative feedback. That helps the vendor and may help the OP, but does little to protect the next guy to send a vendor hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, other than to provide a place to air his grievance when the vendor doesn't deliver.

Expensive aftermarket parts have become so prevealent in our builds these days, that it seems to me it's as important to have reviews of vendors as it is to have reviews of parts. Why shouldn't I be able to research vendor perfromance the same way I research part performance?

A well run and moderated Vendor Feedback forum, I think, would serve our community well.

[XcYZ]

Good feedback from everyone. Many points to digest. I'm going close this for the time being and will revisit when we get a clearer vision of what we may want to do.

Thanks guys. :cheers: