diesel or gas

[WSSix]

So here is my dilemma. I'm cheap and want to be good with me money. I'm in the market for a new truck. Well, new to me anyway. I love my trailblazer but I need an open bed truck. I want a CC Silverado 2500. I want this truck to be the last vehicle I purchase aside from toys and projects. I want to be able to pull my TA on a trailer behind the truck. 99% of the time, at least at this point in my life, I'll be hauling air though and I don't see that changing any time in the near future.

I'm finding that I can get either the diesel or a 6.0 gas engine for about the same price ~$15k. The diesel have higher mileage than the gas motors at that price range but otherwise the trucks are in similar condition. Also, and this is going back to me being cheap, I can find high mileage 6.0 trucks for a lot less than $15k. I can easily afford the trucks at $15k and even higher. I just don't like spending money, lol. Which engine should I go for? I've never owned a diesel. I know the LSx engines very well. Long term which would be the better buy? I'm worried that the diesel will cost me a lot to maintain or repair where as the 6.0 is cheap to rebuild and replace. Its also a hell of a lot easier to work on from what I can see. I'm just not sure I need the pulling power of the diesel though I like the fuel mileage better. Anyone else been faced with this dilemma or been down this road that can offer insight?

Thanks

[N2TRUX]

I can't offer any personal advice on the diesels, although I do have friends and business associates that love theirs. I have had several late model GM trucks and SUVS with a few powered by the 6.0. Some had the dreaded GM piston slap/knock but others did not. They were all great on power and reliability. They were all poor on MPG.

The best being a GMC 1500HD (light duty 3/4 ton) that consistently got 15 mpg. The worst being a Denali XL that consistently got 12 mpg. Beyond regular oil changes, I never spent a dime on the motors.

If your primary function is a tow rig, I would buy a used Denali XL with a 6.2. Having had several of the GM full size SUV, I can attest to the 6.2 powered Denali XL being the best of the bunch. It has a very quite and extremely comfortable interior, and a very plush ride when combined with the auto level system.

The 6.2 provides impressive pulling power and still gets acceptable mpg. While towing my 77 Cheyenne on an open trailer, I averaged 12mpg. Without the trailer I see 17 on the highway.

While the brakes won't compare to a 2500 HD, they are still large enough to bring the massive SUV to a very quick stop. This is truly one of the best over all balanced truck or SUV I have ever driven.

[HotRod68Camaro]

I agree with N2TRUX. The 6.2 is awesome. I just picked up an 08 2500HD Diesel. I was in the same boat as you (between gas or diesel). I drove similar trucks back to back and the power of the diesel is just awesome. You would probably get similar mpg out of the gas, but i just had to get the baddest truck i could afford ha. If you rarely tow, the gas will be more than capable and like you said maintenance is less.

[orangevert]

The maintenance is expensive, gas motor's get all most as good of gas milage, The gas is cheaper!!!! So the milage difference is a wash,When diesels break down the get very $$$$. The LS motors last if taken care of. If you'r not pulling all the time, Go with gas.. You don't have the smell, gelling issue.. Good luck with your purchase..

[WSSix]

Thanks for the replies guys. I keep forgetting that I have towed both C4 and C5 corvettes with an all steel trailer behind both my Trailblazer and a 1500 Silverado with a 4.8. While I wouldn't want to do it with either vehicle regularly or where it's not flat, they did just fine honestly. The 4.8 really is a great little motor. I do think I'll be fine with the 6.0 even though I swear come hell or high water that I'm moving back to Colorado damn it! LOL. Let's just say the pan handle of Texas is not my type of place to live. Anyway, if it weren't for my wanting an open bed to haul my motorcycle(s), I'd look at an Avalanche or Escalade EXT. I really like those trucks but I need a full size bed.

Did they put the 6.2 in any of the trucks or just the SUVs?

Thanks again guys. Anyone else care to add something? I'm all ears and it'll be weeks or months before I purchase anything.

Oh and if I ever need more power, I could always go heads/cam, Magnacharger, or even a turbo that spools low. At least that's part of my thinking

[wmhjr]

Having owned 5.3s and 6.0s, and now a Dodge Cummins (with over 230k on it) I can honestly say I will never again own a gasser. I just finally replaced a water pump on mine. It is twice the utility truck, gets far better mileage and expect it to last another 200k miles before any serious engine work.

[clill]

You can go with gas but that is just a delay till you get a diesel. The diesels make so much torque and get better mileage. Inside my 09 GMC 2500 I can't even tell it is a diesel. Trucks before it were a 2005 Ford F150 with a Roush Supercharger and a ford Lightning. Yes they could both pull a trailer but the mileage sucked and the 2500 was 10 times better pulling a trailer. Yes you can fix a LS engine cheap but these days most newer trucks are pretty cheap to maintain. It was very hard for me to take the diesel plunge but man it is so much better..

[WSSix]

For me taking the diesel plunge just comes from not knowing how to work on the engine and fearing that it's too difficult given my current living situation and lack of a work space. You guys have definitely given me some food for though and I have time to decide which is great. I'll just have to keep my eyes open and see what I can find.

I drive a CC Super Duty Ford for work. It's a long bed 4x4 and I routinely have a fifth wheel behind it. Yeah, it will chug along nicely. I just question if I'll be doing that much towing. Air doesn't weigh much

[rwhite692]

You can go with gas but that is just a delay till you get a diesel. The diesels make so much torque and get better mileage. Inside my 09 GMC 2500 I can't even tell it is a diesel. Trucks before it were a 2005 Ford F150 with a Roush Supercharger and a ford Lightning. Yes they could both pull a trailer but the mileage sucked and the 2500 was 10 times better pulling a trailer. Yes you can fix a LS engine cheap but these days most newer trucks are pretty cheap to maintain. It was very hard for me to take the diesel plunge but man it is so much better..



^^^Yup.

[vinz68]

I bought my 08 2500 duramax new and 70,000 miles later I still love it. Best truck I have ever owned!!

[djorgensen3]

I have had 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's for years and they will pull a small car trailer with a car on it ok, but not great. I also hunt and go out of town quite often throughout the year. Now I recently(within the last two years) took my 1/2 ton with car trailer and my father-in-law took his 3/4 ton diesel to go 500 miles to get two 75 corvettes that were given to me as project cars. My "little" truck did okay but the 3/4 ton diesel did it a WHOLE lot better. He could pull away from me going uphill like it was no problem....cuz it wasn't! He also could stop much better than I could. The back of my truck dragged its butt the whole way while the big truck sat level. What does this mean? It is much safer to drive while pulling a trailer. I also used my 1/2 ton to pull a 28' toyhauler last September and it was probably at least 1000lbs over the towing limit of the little truck. It was empty too. But it was my only option at the time. I was afraid of blowing up the tranny the whole time. I will give it to the 5.3 though, it did the job. My in laws pull that same trailer with 6.0HD and it has heaps of trouble doing it. I really liked my little truck however I traded her in on a 2011 2500HD Diesel CC 4x4. I LOVE THIS TRUCK!!! I pulled a car on a trailer and had to keep looking in the mirror to see if I was still hooked up. And with the four wheel disks and BUILT IN brake controller, it stopped on a dime. All in all, it steers better, rides better, has more room and when I am using it as a truck it is much safer to do those pulling jobs even though I don't do it often. Good luck in your decision but I hope you pick up 3/4 ton at least.

[WSSix]

Oh, I intend on getting a 2500. I'm just not sure if I want or need the diesel since I won't be towing that often.


Thanks

[GregWeld]

Oh, I intend on getting a 2500. I'm just not sure if I want or need the diesel since I won't be towing that often.


Thanks

Brother in Law gets a new work truck every two years -- his job is heavy equipment (lift trucks) -- normally he gets an F250 diesel... last truck he gets GAS... We've towed to California and back - two diesels and his gas truck -- all with trailers and hot rods... him being heaviest... we never lose him on a hill... and he's getting roughly the same milage we are with the diesels. Biggest difference - he just doesn't have the low end grunt... but he's never falling behind!

It remains to be seen about whether or not he'll take a big hit on the resale market. But then the diesel cost 7K or so more up front - and lately - I've paid more per gallon for diesel than he is for regular gas....

[Stuart Adams]

I bought my 08 2500 duramax new and 70,000 miles later I still love it. Best truck I have ever owned!!

Ditto.

[jjarky]

I've got an 08' 1500. I got the Vortec Max package which comes with the 6.0, basically same engine they put in the 2500 if you go gas. I added a set of firestone airbags in the rear to handle some extra load and keep the rear from sagging under weight of a trailer. I'm pretty sure my truck was rated at 10,000 lbs tow capacity.

I really like the 6.0. I have pulled many cars on my steal floored 17ft trailer many times. It pulls great, but really sucks the gas! Like 6mpg in tow/haul mode if your hitting hills and running 70+ (6" lift and 35" tires probably doesn't help that either ). I have also pulled a 24ft enclosed bumper pull, but wouldn't want to do that very often.

If you are going to be pulling a lot, I would go with diesel. If you will be towing occasionally, the 6.0 does a fine job.

My buddy has an 05 diesel with a programmer and he smokes me. No contest.

My next truck will be diesel.

[Vegas69]

I was in the same boat about 2 years ago. I wanted to buy a Chevy/GMC but felt the 2500 was just a little more truck than we needed and it was really tough to find a 6.0 1500 with the gearing and towing package needed to pull 8-10k. It gets driven around town and grocery store parking lots more than to the track and on hunting/fishing trips. Hate to say it, but we ended up with a Tundra. It just feels more nimble and all teh 5.7's tow 10,500. I also like the back up camera and misc. options that are easy to find in the resale market. Not with this and that and this option bull **** on the Chevy/Gmc. I've towed to CA and back with it 3 times now. If you've ever dont that, you know the El Cajon and Baker grades in mid summer are a true test for a truck. I pull them both at 55mph and the temp gauges don't even move with a 24ft enclosed with a car and gear.(8-9k) I could pull them faster, but I don't want to beat up my truck. It says Made in USA. :thumbsup:

[wmhjr]

Brother in Law gets a new work truck every two years -- his job is heavy equipment (lift trucks) -- normally he gets an F250 diesel... last truck he gets GAS... We've towed to California and back - two diesels and his gas truck -- all with trailers and hot rods... him being heaviest... we never lose him on a hill... and he's getting roughly the same milage we are with the diesels. Biggest difference - he just doesn't have the low end grunt... but he's never falling behind!

It remains to be seen about whether or not he'll take a big hit on the resale market. But then the diesel cost 7K or so more up front - and lately - I've paid more per gallon for diesel than he is for regular gas....

Sorry Greg but I'm calling bs. There is zero possibility of him weighing more, pulling just as strong AND getting remotely near the same mileage. Zero. You'd have to invent new laws of physics. No way now how no time.

[street3285]

I recommend diesel. They cost a little more in maintenance, but I believe they will last longer is taken care of properly. The power is unreal and the mileage is good for a truck that heavy. i have a 2008 Duramax, and will never go back to a gas again. This might even be the last truck I buy. 65K and still strong.

I have it programmed with a 4" turbo back. So my mileage is a little better without the smog stuff on it.

[GregWeld]

Sorry Greg but I'm calling bs. There is zero possibility of him weighing more, pulling just as strong AND getting remotely near the same mileage. Zero. You'd have to invent new laws of physics. No way now how no time.

Okay -- I just made it up. Except that it's true. I personally wouldn't believe it except that we've now made 3 or 4 trips together... with his new gas truck.

The milage he's getting is 7+ ------- I get 10.4 to me that's close enough when you do the math and figure what I paid EXTRA for the diesel. And I pay more per gallon for diesel at each fill up.

The last two trips I'm dragging my '32 Ford - he's got my Nomad that weighs almost DOUBLE the '32.... So you can do that math as well.

[clill]

Hey Greg...

[GregWeld]

BTW -- Just to be perfectly clear -- Personally there's no way I'd buy a gas truck... I tow way too much and I want the full monty deal of being able to blow past people while pulling the grapevine! :woot:

BUT -- If someone is asking about a suitable truck and states they only tow very occasionally... and lives in Texas (pretty flat)... then I can't see much of an argument for selling him a diesel. The added expense.. up front and per gallon just doesn't make much sense for the "power".

My Brother in Laws company switched their entire fleet to gas last year... and they're in the heavy equipment business (Pape)... while he would prefer to have the diesel... he'll be the first to tell you his gas truck is just "fine".

[GregWeld]

Hey Greg...

That's funny!


To me -- RETARDED -- is FORD only selling 4X4's in the bigger trucks. I'd replace my '06 F-350 but I can only get it with 4 wheel drive. Hummmmmm...
I'm not towing much in the snow.

[DRJDVM's '69]

I went through the same thing about 8 months ago. I dont tow very often, but I prefer to overengineer stuff than to just "get by", so I ended up getting a 2500 Ram diesel and its been great. It drives around town like a gas truck and tows a 20 ft enclosed car trailer with a car no problem.

The fuel mileage vs the fuel price makes that aspect a wash in my book.

We just towed a 20 ft boat with my friend gas Expedition....it could do it, but it didnt do it very well and the diesel will tolerate being "abused" way better than a gas truck.

This is my first diesel and I'm pretty happy that I did.....

[mike343sharpstk]

This is great stuff, thanks all for you input.
Next year I’ll be replacing my ’01 Durango (4.7 V8, tow package, 3.90’s, lsd, etc) with something bigger and better. I ‘thought’ the Durango had enough power… Until I pulled a car through the mountains of Virginia- Holly @#$#@*!:brix:

Lesson learned.

Towing in a flat area is one thing, but man, oh man, those mountain grades had me putting my foot to the floor on both the pedals! Not the proper tool for the job, and once my race car is done I’ll be towing more and more.

I expect 200,000 miles out of any vehicle, and I take care of them appropriately. The Durango has 170,000 with no drive-train issues at the moment, but it's showing its age elsewhere. In the past the Diesel drive trains were just plain made to run longer than the gas units. Not sure that this is still the case?

I’m very seriously looking at that next purchase being a used Dodge with the Diesel. But I could be swayed at this point. I already find that I tow “stuff” more than I ever thought I would, from my enclosed motorcycle trailer to whatever random car needs to be moved around, or patio block, or ???. Plus, 4x4 winter duty is important here.

It’s fun to shop, but when I write the check I want to make damn sure it’s for the correct tool!

[70rs]

For what it's worth when I sold at a local Chevy dealer that particular store sold diesels 5 to 1 over gas.
Now up here we have real live mountains. And in this county A LOT of livestock moving (heavy towing often).
That being said, those new diesel sales were usually to the people towing several times per month. That alone tells me the towing issue is in favor of diesels hands down. No brainer there.

But for the average guy who commutes, hunts, camps, tows once in awhile or just likes driving a truck the gas motors are fine.
High mile diesels take a bit more maintenance and that does cost more on average than the gas trucks. Even the oil changes and air & fuel filters can be double or more than a gas motor.
I have owned both a 2500 6.0 gas and a 5.3 1500 (current)
And both were VERY cheap to maintain.
The few times I wished for more power with either really didn't justify me buying a diesel.
The boat I towed with the 6.0 (with close to 200k) was about 7000 pounds fully loaded including trailer.
Only on the steep and long grades did I want more grunt. But that was so I could cruise at 75 instead of 55/60.

Sorry if my rambling doesn't help. But I just didn't NEED diesel. But I sure do WANT one.

[wmhjr]

Okay -- I just made it up. Except that it's true. I personally wouldn't believe it except that we've now made 3 or 4 trips together... with his new gas truck.

The milage he's getting is 7+ ------- I get 10.4 to me that's close enough when you do the math and figure what I paid EXTRA for the diesel. And I pay more per gallon for diesel at each fill up.

The last two trips I'm dragging my '32 Ford - he's got my Nomad that weighs almost DOUBLE the '32.... So you can do that math as well.

Greg, a few things. Thanks for posting the numbers - it helps.

First, if you just say 7.4 instead of 7+, it still means you get more than 40% better mileage than him. Maybe it's just me, but that isn't even close. How would you like a 40% interest rate on a savings account?

Beyond that, why is your mileage so bad on your diesel? I routinely pull 8k in my 24ft enclosed (gross trailer and contents) and I never get less than 15 even at 75mph cruise in serious terrain. I usually average closer to 17+. A family member has the ford v10 and while it pulls ok it can't keep up and eats twice the fuel. I got rid of my 5.3 1500 but we still have the 2500 6l. I burn 50% less fuel in the cummins, faster, with more weight.

Maybe it's a powerstroke thing? I'm way more familiar with the cummins and dmax. We live in very hilly terrain here and people would be screaming if their diesels only got 10.4.

[rwhite692]

That's funny!


To me -- RETARDED -- is FORD only selling 4X4's in the bigger trucks. I'd replace my '06 F-350 but I can only get it with 4 wheel drive. Hummmmmm...
I'm not towing much in the snow.


As an aside, I was VERY glad that mine is a 4X4 the one time I got my 36' fifth wheel travel trailer (12K lbs, dry) into a soft patch of muddy grass on the shoulder of a state park road.... put it in low and eased her out. Would not have made it out, otherwise.

[wmhjr]

Btw, I agree with a lot that Greg said. Here are some downsides of the diesel.

If you get the manual tranny like my 6spd which is clearly the best for over the road pulling and economy, it can be very tedious in daily driving. The diesels don't accelerate quite as quick as a gasser.

SOME diesels are noisy (pstroke)

Diesel trucks cost more and fuel is more expensive.

Diesels are heavy.

Major repairs can be expensive.

Here are some upsides of diesels.

Way more pulling power. Period. Torque, baby.I'm making more than 600lbs at 1400rpm. Nuffield said.

SOME diesels last hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm at 230k and barely broke in the cummins.

You use way less fuel. Empty or loaded. Mpg is very consistent almost regardless of load.

Depending on the engine, repairs are infrequent. For me, a water pump at 230k miles.

Diesels hold their value.

Did I say way more power?


Here's the big difference. I don't care who you are, if you're in a gasser pulling a heavy load through anything other than perfectly flat terrain, you don't look forward to it. With a good diesel, pulling becomes fun and effortless.

So I do agree with Greg that while getting the 3/4 ton is essential for anyone really thinking about pulling (please don't try to convince me that 1/2ton trucks pull well as Ive had too many) if you only pull once in a while and it isn't serious the. A diesel isn't necessary. Of course, neither are our cars :)

[GregWeld]

WM --

I guess that you've confirmed my "thoughts" with the OP. He lives in flatland... and only tows infrequently - and the gas truck - while not what I'd buy - would be "fine" and I think that's what information he was looking for.

I get HORRIBLE milage... Pstroke 6.0L - With Banks Big Hoss bundle so every option they make.... but I have a 1 ton dually - with 4:10 gears... I pull a heavy (relatively) trailer that is LOADED with stuff... as in full tool box - compressor - 8000# winch and battery... generator... ez ups - cabinets and overheads... floor jack (not a little hydraulic bottle jack) and fully finished inside... so the trailer is a little heavier than a comparable sized "plain jane" version. My Nomad weighs in at 4023 lbs. I get no difference in towing that or the '32. Best I've ever gotten is 11.2 MPG. The truck weighs 9000 #'s empty. But it goes like stink and NOBODY is going to pull a hill faster. :unibrow:

Totally agree with your statement re: our cars etc... it's never a matter of "need" -- just desire and floating your own boat - whatever that takes.

My next truck will be a SportChassis size -- and a trailer with living quarters etc -- and I will option the truck with the biggest HP diesel engine available... just because I can't do it any other way and be happy/satisfied. There is ZERO need for any of it. I just want it. :yes:

[GregWeld]

As an aside, I was VERY glad that mine is a 4X4 the one time I got my 36' fifth wheel travel trailer (12K lbs, dry) into a soft patch of muddy grass on the shoulder of a state park road.... put it in low and eased her out. Would not have made it out, otherwise.

That can be fixed by learning how to drive better....:rofl:

No need for the 4X4... and the ONCE you needed it could have been fixed with a WINCH... or using your cell phone and calling a tow truck etc. I just don't NEED to carry all the weight and drivetrain components on a truck that is used for HIWAY recreational towing.

[69MyWay]

I work in a vehicle research department. One of the things we track are failure rates and defects with various trucks - especially considering diesel issues.

Let me tell you this - when a diesel breaks - it is expensive. The fuel system is the weak link. Diesel fuel is dirty by nature - has water and dirt in it right out of the pump. As you know, diesel engines have water in fuel filter systems. It is CRUCIAL these are drained and serviced regular. Failure to do so will kill the truck.

Both the later model Dodge and Ford trucks will cost you between $12,000 to $14,000 when the fuel system goes. The pump, high lift pump, injectors and assemblies will set you back this much in a heartbeat.

This begs the huge question on buying used or new. We know new diesel trucks are nuts on the price. However, if you buy used and you DON'T know the service history - you better have plenty in reserve to deal with a failure.

Dodge has a real problem on the Cummins and came out with a SEVERE duty filter kit-translation - they don't make an adequate factory filter so the injection system gets wrecked and costs you...$12K to fix. They won't warranty fuel related issues. In fact, Dodge has a WIF track that stores how long you have driven with the WIF light on. THis is designed to avoid paying warranty claims where the owner is not taking care fo the vehicle.

Check out how serious they are about this:

NUMBER: 14-002-10GROUP: FuelDATE: February 11, 2010THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 14-003-09 REV. A, DATED OCTOBER 21,2009, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE A NEW PART.SUBJECT:Heavy Duty Filtration - MOPAR Retrofit or Add On Parts AvailableMODELS:2003 - 2009 (D1/DH)

Ram Truck (2500/3500 Pick Up)2007 - 2009 (DC)
Ram Truck (3500 Cab Chassis)NOTE:


This bulletin applies to DI/DH/DR vehicles equipped with a 5.9L Cummins engine built from 2003 model year (sales codes ETH, ETC) and DI/DH/DC vehicles equipped with a 6.7L Cummins engine built from 2007 model year (sales code ETJ).DISCUSSION:Several fuel system add-on or retrofit parts are available to enhance the filtering capability for customers exposing their vehicles to extremely dirty conditions.Description of parts available for Cummins diesel equipped vehicles are listed below: ^


6.7L up-graded (5 & 10 micron filter-in-filter) fuel filter to retrofit earlier models (shell and element). ^ 6.7L Element only, fuel filter. ^ 5.9L & 6.7L Add-on or up-graded fuel tank vent hose kit with vent cap. ** Filter for fuel tank vent hose, (replaces vent cap) **. ^ 5.9L up-graded air filter. This filter is similar in design to the current 6.7L air filter.NOTE: Do not sell pin 05183410AA. Use 68061633AA shell and filter.NOTE: The maintenance intervals for the fuel filter has a 15,000 mile service requirement or more often as needed.

[69MyWay]

By the way - those of you with 2008 and up trucks.

Checked your Diesel Exhaust Fluid lately?

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about - check this out (just another reason in my book NOT to buy a diesel if at all possible)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31vRM1BORM

[70rs]

I suddenly want a diesel truck much less now.......

Thanks for the info. And for crushing my dreams........:D

[street3285]

By the way - those of you with 2008 and up trucks.

Checked your Diesel Exhaust Fluid lately?

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about - check this out (just another reason in my book NOT to buy a diesel if at all possible)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31vRM1BORM

2008 don't have DEF, and I believe 2009 chevy's don't either. It started in 2010. But anyways, to answer the OP question, a gas will be fine. I agree with that, but if you want more power and more ease of towing, then a diesel is better. All depends on personal preference, how often towed, and budget. But now, it seems like you can get a used diesel for a decent price with moderate miles.

[wmhjr]

I get HORRIBLE milage... Pstroke 6.0L - With Banks Big Hoss bundle so every option they make.... but I have a 1 ton dually - with 4:10 gears... I pull a heavy (relatively) trailer that is LOADED with stuff... as in full tool box - compressor - 8000# winch and battery... generator... ez ups - cabinets and overheads... floor jack (not a little hydraulic bottle jack) and fully finished inside... so the trailer is a little heavier than a comparable sized "plain jane" version. My Nomad weighs in at 4023 lbs. I get no difference in towing that or the '32. Best I've ever gotten is 11.2 MPG. etc :

Hey Greg, around here the pstrokes aren't the favorite option. It's mainly Cummins or Dmax. Mine is only a 3/4 ton and not a dually but the weights are very similar though I have 3:73s. Add in the smarty jr and the 6spd and I'm pretty optimized though I'm also pushing 4x4 which I wouldn't give up. My Pontiac is 3720 plus full 5ft tall loaded tool chest, floor jack, winch, etc but is probably a little lighter as it isn't totally "finished" but I do have it loaded down. I'm guessing that the loaded trailer for this coming weekend will be around 9000lbs. I can't make the rig get less than 15 no matter what. That's on cruise, loaded, through west Virginia hills at 65-75mph. I don't know of any pstrokes that can say that, and I do know that some dmaxes are faster. They can really be hot rods.

[wmhjr]

I suddenly want a diesel truck much less now.......

Thanks for the info. And for crushing my dreams........:D

Don't let the previous scares mess with you. I can find a gazillion tech bulletins about pretty much any vehicle out there and have NEVER in ALL the owners I know, meet and see observed a "$12,000" rebuild on a diesel fuel system. I'm not saying there can't be problems but the statement to avoid a diesel if at all possible? Are you kidding me? Better tell all commercial trucking they're screwing up. Truth is - and it's fact - we've been slow to catch on but diesels are here to stay and for good reason. I'm not a fan of e urea based systems but..... And to pick on the cummins of all the diesel motors? The only medium duty engine option? Wow. I guess it just reinforces my avoidance of all the "analyst" opinions. Btw I do know of two people who had warranty fuel related issues that were completely covered.

Bottom line is this. I've got a number of diesel vehicles. Some are 50 yrs old. I've got a truck with 230k miles on it that runs like new, though it does have the typical cheap a$$ dodge interior. I do NOT run biodiesel, which can introduce all kinds of issues. And here's a question. There are a bunch of folks on this site who pull with diesels. Who hearer has found all kinds of water in their fuel, or has paid $12k for a fuel system rebuild. Buehler? Ferris?

[rwhite692]

That can be fixed by learning how to drive better....:rofl:

No need for the 4X4... and the ONCE you needed it could have been fixed with a WINCH... or using your cell phone and calling a tow truck etc. I just don't NEED to carry all the weight and drivetrain components on a truck that is used for HIWAY recreational towing.


The incident in question took place on a dirt road up in gold country where only one vehicle can pass at a time.

Cell Phone? LOL!....Not going to happen at some of the places we go hunting and camping, GW.

I realize that some o' y'all city folk never actually need or use their 4WD....but I'm not one of them....

BTW, I have also had my 07 so covered in gumbo mud, that you couldn't tell what color it is. It's forded a couple of streams as well.

Give me the extra capability of 4WD in my HD truck, any day.

[WSSix]

I really appreciate everyone's replies.

I currently live where it is flat but will be running to Colorado and back often. I even hope to return to living in Colorado. More times than not I'll be hauling a motorcycle in the bed up and down the grades not the car. I'll also be going on many of the trails in Colorado but nothing serious so I'll have 4wd. I really would like this truck to be the last vehicle I ever buy that's not a toy or project that's why I am getting a CC eventhough I have no family and am not popular enough to need four doors. In the future, I'm sure four doors will be utilized.

I'm getting the 2500 for towing and ruggedness. The issue is diesel or gas. I'm finding trucks in my price range ~$15k both diesel and gas loaded the exact same way. These are 03-early07 Silverados. Mileage is very different with the gassers around 80k to 100k and the diesel 150k and up. The long term value of the vehicle is a factor though a smaller one. I can afford a diesel and I love the pulling power. I'm just trying to be smart and logical about this decision and not let emotion control my purchase.

Thanks

[Vegas69]

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

[69MyWay]

2008 don't have DEF, and I believe 2009 chevy's don't either. It started in 2010. But anyways, to answer the OP question, a gas will be fine. I agree with that, but if you want more power and more ease of towing, then a diesel is better. All depends on personal preference, how often towed, and budget. But now, it seems like you can get a used diesel for a decent price with moderate miles.


Correct! Thanks for the catch.


Don't let the previous scares mess with you. I can find a gazillion tech bulletins about pretty much any vehicle out there and have NEVER in ALL the owners I know, meet and see observed a "$12,000" rebuild on a diesel fuel system.


You will just have to trust me on this. I can't release actual statistics from my work - but the numbers are overwhelming on these failures and the impact it is having.

My buddy just bought a 2005 F250 Diesel with 120K miles. Bought a one way plane ticket - flew into FL and drove it back to IL. When he hit Atlanta around midnight...power loss....slowing down....slowing....Stopped. Had it towed to the Ford dealer on Memorial day. Upper fuel system dead - $3,000 later he was rolling. He was lucky to get out that cheap! He now has a 2011 Duramax Chevy and is very happy with it.

By the way, the new GM products don't have the severe issue that Dodge and Ford fight.

Ford had a massive issue with injectors. They say the Dodge problem is the injectors are not properly filtered. They require 2 micron, but the best the stock system on the truck does is around 10. Thus - dirty fuel and dead truck.

I don't have an agenda - but it is nice to know some of those things you don't find out until you find out the hard way.

[69MyWay]

By the way - just to beat a dead horse...quick google search and this was right on top - dude getting nailed for $10K on this Dodge - actually not a bad deal considering what it could cost.

http://forums.automotive.com/70/4574/trucks/2004-dodge-ram-fuel-injector-problems/index.html

[WSSix]

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

That has to do with the new emissions stuff I believe. My last job we had two 14 passenger church type buses that we would run on his one route that had very few riders. Anyway, the buses lidled for long periods. SES light came on often. Finally the Ford dealership figured the problem out. The solution was to drive the buses more. So the drivers would come in 30 minutes early and drive on the loop around Athens to get everything hot and cleaned out. Problems went away.

This is why I am sticking to pre-emissions diesels so 07 Classic Silverados and older. No emissions BS to deal with.

[PhilR]

I haven't seen any mention of the tunability factor that diesels have. Why shouldn't your truck be as fun to drive as your hot rod? There is a HUGE aftermarket for Dodge, GM, and Ford diesel trucks. It's not too difficult to increase power & torque 25% - 50% and more with readily available tuning boxes. That power should come with some additional supporting modifications to the fuel system and transmission, but big power comes relatively cheap with newer diesel trucks.

For reliability, most of the weak spots in diesel trucks have been found and can be easily addressed. Poor fuel filtration damaging expensive high pressure fuel injection systems was mentioned. This is a pretty easy fix with aftermarket pumps and filters. Do your homework and you can get a fast, fun, and reliable diesel truck.

[GregWeld]

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

Good points Todd -- Diesels were not meant to be your daily commuter truck 5 miles one way to work... They want to do "work".

I've only had ONE issue with my Ford 6.0L (a computer that died a month ago - replaced in a couple hours and $1200) -- which everyone says is a POS.... and the reason for that, I BELIEVE, is because the 85K miles on it are almost all hiway and towing... and I have the Banks system which also includes the brake controller (like a jake brake). The truck gets used and used hard -- I give it no breaks (or brakes either!) going up or down the hills... and because of this - I think the exhaust gets burned clean - which keeps the injectors clean - and I have it serviced religiously! I don't want problems when I'm on the road... so I'm very pro-active with the services. I use AMSOIL synthetic diesel oil and I change it every 3000 miles -- and I use a Pure Power cleanable screen SS mesh filter.

BTW -- 85K --- and never changed the PADS on the brakes! Thanks to the Banks Brake! I rarely use the brakes... I'm telling ya - they have that down pat! Since I typically haul long distance - the miles add up without touching the brakes. If I was doing stop and go - I'd be on a the second set of pads and probably a rotor change. I've had the tranny fluid changed at least twice - with flushes - and ditto the radiator... flushed and new coolant. Belts have been changed and I had the radiator hoses changed at 75K.

I did have the entire front suspension rebuilt... again --- being pro active. I thought it was getting a little sloppy so just had them replace everything. It was 3 grand - but I want my steering up to snuff --- and I don't want to find out it's not, while I'm in a corner with a trailer pushing my butt around!

The only other thing I've learned is to periodically change the turbo pressure side hose (from the turbo to the intake)... it gets saturated with oil and will blow off just about the time you're really putting the boots to it... and putting that on while leaning over a hot motor SUCKS! So I now just change it out and use the good silicone turbo hose. I even discussed this personally with Gale Banks at this years Grand Nat show when I met him at the NHRA musem, and he told me they have seen the same issue... the hose just gets hot oil blown into it until it is "gone".

[wmhjr]

You will just have to trust me on this. I can't release actual statistics from my work - but the numbers are overwhelming on these failures and the impact it is having.
.

Sorry. Can't just trust you on this. For every example you bring up where somebody is having a problem there are thousands of trucks out there running hundreds of thousands of miles. Let me be more clear.

I own a 230k mile normally maintained '04 Cummins Dodge. The only driveline repair is - a water pump. Cost me $59, replaced it myself, not including going ahead and changing rad hoses and serpentine belt.

Most of my truck driving friends have either Dmaxes or Cummins. Sure, there are issues once in a while. Let me tell you sometime about my 5.3 Silverado issues sometime. Now THAT will make you cringe. For the most part, nothing out of the ordinary.

The Cummins is the heaviest built, stoutest diesel in the light truck fleet (meaning anything 1 1/4 ton or less, non-commercial). Note I didn't say the "best", as that's a different definition depending on your perspective. The Dmaxes are far easier to modify and can run like banshees. However, how about in your "research" you take a hard look at all the Cummins out there with over 300k, 400k, even 500k miles on them. Then talk to me about the "serious issues that neither Ford nor Chevy have". In your research, put a rod from a Cummins next to a rod from a pstroke or dmax. Hell, put it next to one of each. It's massive.

Here's a secret. Many of the issues that "diesels have" are around 3 different areas.

1) Guys using Biodiesel, especially without modifying their filtration systems. Asking for trouble.

2) Guys really beefing up the diesels with all kinds of modifications - ESPECIALLY those that can affect injector performance, such as increasing rail pressure, etc. A prime cause of injector failure is improper atomization, ie, air, at the tips. This is often the result of either modifying rail pressure and/or improper filtration. If you're gonna mess with rail pressure, YOU HAVE TO UPGRADE YOUR FUEL FILTRATION AND PUMP SITUATION!

3) New emissions crap. Urea. All kinds of crap. BTW, GM is absolutely having issues as well right now with their dmax due to this.

So, no, I can't "just trust you on this". Maybe after I put ANOTHER 230k miles on my '04 we can talk. Pulling 8000-9000 lbs getting an average of 17mpg fully loaded. On cruise, with the air on. At 70-75mph. Uphill. In the summer. With 4 adults in the cab. That pretty much paints the picture. At what I paid for the truck used, and what I've already saved, I can buy another 5.9HO CR engine and drop it in and still probably be about $5k ahead of the game.

[wmhjr]

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

Buddy of mine has a brand new dmax chevy. He's been told something similar from gm. It is emission related. But it wasn't that he had to drive 55mph, just that he had to drive it to get the EGTs up enough and then use it for an hour or so once every 2-3 weeks.

[GregWeld]

Bottom line on all these trucks (and cars too!) is you have to take care of them for them to be able to take care of you. All brands are good these days. I steadfastly refuse to say one is better than the other... they've all had issues and they've all had good engineering working on fixes. I had two Cummins Turbos in my boat - and they never failed me and if you want to work a diesel hard - put it in a 25 ton boat and run 'em at 2200 RPM for hours on end. That's max torque output spinning 28" 4 blade wheels... In a boat - there is no "coasting" like you do in a car/truck.

Just change your filters - and oil - and run 'em hard. Diesels do not like being coked up.

[ALLSPEED01]

Do they make "real" trucks that aren't diesel? Go diesel for sure! In my opinion the Dmax is best all around, Cummins best for all out towing, and the Powerstrokes will do the job especially when modified a little bit. There is a ton of aftermarket goodies for all of them.

[Vegas69]

Buddy of mine has a brand new dmax chevy. He's been told something similar from gm. It is emission related. But it wasn't that he had to drive 55mph, just that he had to drive it to get the EGTs up enough and then use it for an hour or so once every 2-3 weeks.

Yep, Jeff's is a late 07 and that's when it started according to him. He also mentioned the fluid for GM I believe.

Just to add lots of fuel to the fire....
http://www.chevrolet.com/hd-to-hd-truck-comparison/

[TreySmith]

I don't see how anything can be better than the cummins. Been driving an 05 3500 6 speed and the damn thing gets 23mpg city. I haven't filled the damn thing up in weeks but I can't say the same for my lifted F250.. And the 6.0 isn't so bad, mine has minor egr issues but overall it's been very trouble free. Not to mention it's funny as **** launching on corvettes and stuff. Hell with the programmer on the Dodge it gives them a run for their money to the top end. If I floor it in 4th at about 45mph it will spin the tires.

I love my 6.0, I just wish the gas mileage wasn't so terrible or it would be the perfect truck. Yeah the interior of the dodge kinda sucks but when you are knocking down high 20's highway with towing gears, you can't really bitch. Not to mention it's just as fast as any sports car on the road. I'd say it's comparable to my 99 WS6.

[69MyWay]

Sorry. Can't just trust you on this. For every example you bring up where somebody is having a problem there are thousands of trucks out there running hundreds of thousands of miles. Let me be more clear.



No worries - please understand I am not condemning all diesel trucks - nor suggesting that you will all have problems.

Please see what I am saying - and for those that don't take my word on the damages I have attached some documents to prove how costly this is.

My suggestion to anybody that is considering one of these trucks (Diesel) is to make sure you have on hand plenty of extra cash IF - or WHEN the fuel sytsem dies. Warranty does not cover this - and few insurance companies consider this a covered loss.

Folks shoping between Diesel and Gas need to know the facts to make up their mind.

The first bill I am attaching is from a 2008 Ram - this guy got off easy at $5,600

The second is part of a series (2009 Ram) - it started out around $5 and grew to $12K. I've included the final bill (personal info removed) to show how quickly this adds up.

[wmhjr]

No worries - please understand I am not condemning all diesel trucks - nor suggesting that you will all have problems.

Please see what I am saying - and for those that don't take my word on the damages I have attached some documents to prove how costly this is.

My suggestion to anybody that is considering one of these trucks (Diesel) is to make sure you have on hand plenty of extra cash IF - or WHEN the fuel sytsem dies. Warranty does not cover this - and few insurance companies consider this a covered loss.

Folks shoping between Diesel and Gas need to know the facts to

The second is part of a series (2009 Ram) - it started out around $5 and grew to $12K. I've included the final bill (personal info removed) to show how quickly this adds up.

My last word on this is that people should also understand that your "facts" are not necessarily accurate or in context. I simply dispute your position and believe you are biased.

As an example, take a look at the attachments you provided. You'll see "contamination" clearly written, along with the inclusion of not only injectors and pump, but also a new FUEL TANK. Please explain exactly how a poor filtration system not only caused pump and injector failure but also the replacement of the tank? Ain't gonna happen. This is clearly a work order involving far more than what you allege, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the owner may have been trying to use biodiesel, maybe even home brewed. Don't know, but I DO know it was not just injector or pump failure.

Anyway, I won't hide behind the veil of some undisclosed "research" job in assuming costs or claims. A small handful of (questionable) receipts has a long way to go before you should be making claims of "when" fuel system failures will happen and why. Jmho.

[Stuart Adams]

I really think you have to own both to truly understand the differences. If you haven't it just not the same. Having owned both, I prefer diesel, but everybody has their own choices and that's great. The upside of tuning the diesel is a cool feature, even though mine is stock, a lot of friends get great mileage and their trucks are fast as heck.

[nvmyss]

Having owned both a 2001 HD Crew with the 6.0 tuner, cold air and headers.
And a 06 5.9 Dodge Cummins that I've changed from stock to mild modded., here are my 2 cents.

I've towed with both and same weighs and distances. The Diesel is hands down my choice, I will never go back to a gas truck. (unless it's a "fun truck" --one that is not used as a truck. A truck is for hauling stuff and treating it rough)I have towed 24' enclosed trailers load with a few thousand lbs. and open trailers with little weight.

The torque of the diesel will shine compared to the gas in a few areas. The ones that come to mind are mileage, hills (both up and down) and price to increase power.

Each brand of diesel has its draw backs.
Maintenance and fixing the "weak link" will cost more than a gas initially but if you’re going to own for a long time it is worth it.

The 6.0 I got 12mpg no matter what, hills knocked speed and mpg down when hauling the enclosed. The open trailer was better but hills still sucked with weight.

The diesel I can keep going @ 75mph and still pull 18mpg on hills, flat land I and go back over 20, this is with a loaded enclosed trailer.

[69MyWay]

My last word on this is that people should also understand that your "facts" are not necessarily accurate or in context. I simply dispute your position and believe you are biased.

As an example, take a look at the attachments you provided. You'll see "contamination" clearly written, along with the inclusion of not only injectors and pump, but also a new FUEL TANK. Please explain exactly how a poor filtration system not only caused pump and injector failure but also the replacement of the tank? Ain't gonna happen. This is clearly a work order involving far more than what you allege, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised that the owner may have been trying to use biodiesel, maybe even home brewed. Don't know, but I DO know it was not just injector or pump failure.

Anyway, I won't hide behind the veil of some undisclosed "research" job in assuming costs or claims. A small handful of (questionable) receipts has a long way to go before you should be making claims of "when" fuel system failures will happen and why. Jmho.

Like I said - no worries - I have no idea why this has become so personal to you,- I promise I'm not taking a swipe at your pride in ownership of your truck, in fact I'm very happy to hear you have had such great success from your vehicle as well as others on here that are proud of their diesel trucks - but since it is your last word on the subject I humbly submit mine as well.

Yes, what you see is correct. The proper procedure per most manufacturers once there is a fuel system failure is to drop and clean the tank, flush the lines, replace all the filters - and then service all the other parts that were exposed. Sometimes this includes a tank replacement. This is for several reasons. One - the water has to be removed 100%. Also, you have a return line to your tank. The higher pressure pump will often self destruct when exposed to water. When that happens it will send shards of metal shavings back to the tank. I know you wouldn't have thought that on initial impression - but it does. Diesel fuel is dirty and most people that don't actually haul and use these like they should often neglect the fuel system and allow excess amounts of water to collect. It rots them out from the inside and devours the injectors and pump once it pushes past the WIF system. People getting into these trucks need to know how to take care of them. Being careless in where you buy your fuel, how you service your WIF system, and any attempt to use alternative fuels WILL result in a high repair bill. We looked at a F350 box truck that was a my2008 sold in 2011 as a new vehicle as it was a hold back on a dealer lot. It only had about 1,200 miles on it. It made it off the lot and went just a few more miles and fell on its face. $12,000 later Ford denied the claim and we found out that the fuel system once opened looked like it had been on the bottom of the ocean for two years - all the way to the injectors. Typical diesel fuel failure issue from sitting - BIG impact on the truck. One of the big problems Dodge had is the WIF sensor was getting clogged and NOT turning the warning lamp on. They had to eat a bunch of these claims under warranty until they got that fixed.



I can submit to you repair bills like you see above all day long. I am not hiding behind any sort of undisclosed research job. I will be happy to send a PM to anybody that questions my credentials. There are a handful of folks on this board that know me personally and know who it is I work for and what I do. I will tell you that the request topic of this thread is very timely to me since I have recently looked at several hundred of these type of failures in an effort to quantify and track them for my employer. We also have obtained some specimens and are in the process of doing destructive testing on them to try to get our arms around the nature of this problem.

This diesel issue is not going to rise to the point of a NHTSA recall from what I can see, but it is on the radar screen because there appears to be a series of both design defects with the vehicle, poor quality fuel issues, and finally owner/maintenance issues that are having an impact on everybody's wallet.

So bottom line - I could care less what somebody buys. I however am happy to share what I'm discovering at this point over the last couple of years on the new generation diesel engines and how this impacts the average consumer.


:lateral:

[GregWeld]

Having owned and operated large diesel boats -- with 1000 gallon (not a typo - One thousand gallon) fuel tanks... everything he is saying about dirty fuel is absolutely the truth.

When you have that much diesel "stored" --- and it has water in it (all diesel does) --- you can get all manor of microbial growth... that will wreck havoc on the fuel system filters and anything else it touches. It's easier to deal with on boats where we can run large filters and be able to switch to a back up filter if necessary. These RACOR filters spin the fuel to try to separate the gunk - and they have clear glass so you can SEE your fuel. That would be impossible on a pick up... with rocks etc. In the boat they're well protected in the engine room.

There are businesses that do nothing but clean fuel tanks and filter your fuel etc.

So I can see a truck that isn't getting used much - or buys fuel from a depot that doesn't pump much - getting seriously contaminated. And that spells Ex$pen$ive repairs.

[Al Moreno]

So after reading 10 minutes worth of diesel vs Gas, I've concluded that Electric power is the BEST IN THE FREAKIN UNIVERSE!! :D

[Vegas69]

Go hang out with Flash in San Fran with daisies in you hair...:unibrow:

[jjarky]

"So bottom line - I could care less what somebody buys."


:lateral:

Actually its, "I couldn't care less". Unless you actually care.. :D :offtopic:

[GregWeld]

So after reading 10 minutes worth of diesel vs Gas, I've concluded that Electric power is the BEST IN THE FREAKIN UNIVERSE!! :D

THERE YA GO AL!!!

I LIKE IT!

[69MyWay]

Actually its, "I couldn't care less". Unless you actually care.. :D :offtopic:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[wmhjr]

Having owned and operated large diesel boats -- with 1000 gallon (not a typo - One thousand gallon) fuel tanks... everything he is saying about dirty fuel is absolutely the truth.

So I can see a truck that isn't getting used much - or buys fuel from a depot that doesn't pump much - getting seriously contaminated. And that spells Ex$pen$ive repairs.

Greg, I agree with you but not in the same way. I'm extremely familiar with diesels and own a bunch (only 1 is a truck, the rest are relatively heavy equipment). I've personally experienced fuel contamination more than once. Not too long ago, just finished a total rebuild on a international 3cyl during a dozer restoration.

What I don't agree with is the premise that 69myway made, first insinuating that poor design was the result of the expensive repairs, and second that an '08 stock truck, used and maintained normally, would encounter this. They don't store 1000gals. The explanation simply doesn't jive to me. It just seems like data being used out of context. I'll ask again - how many diesel owners on this site have experienced these issues? How about some more actual feedback from this board?

As mentioned already, I have seen a bunch of people get in trouble with newer diesels in particular trying to run biodiesel. Frankly, ive run into issues with some of my other diesels but I always refused to put it in my truck. Newer high pressure injection systems are pretty darned picky.

I would have to guess that most of my diesels get used maybe twice a month. Year round. My truck gets used sporadically. Sometimes it's veer frequent but then it could go weeks without being touched. Of the probably 75 or so people I personally know that have diesel light trucks I'd guess that at least 50% use them during the summer only on weekends, and NEVER all winter. Have there been problems? Sure. A very small number have had to replace lift pumps, and sometimes injectors, etc. I will also say that most of those were on more heavily modified trucks with bigger turbos, full programmers, etc. None replaced fuel tanks.

230k miles.

The point is that this is not an emotional topic. 69myway claims to just want to "educate people" and I would simply prefer a less biased and more transparent process.

[PhilR]

I'll ask again - how many diesel owners on this site have experienced these issues? How about some more actual feedback from this board?

115K on my daily driver 2007 5.9 Ram. Most of it has been between 500 - 600 RWH depending on modifications and tuning. One of the first mods was a $600 lift pump and fuel filtration system. The same filtration system could have probably easily prevented the previously mentioned example of complete fuel system failure, and should be considered standard equipment for anyone considering running anything other than clean, brand name diesel #2.

No major issues from any of my stock parts except for a computer module failure that was fixed under warranty.

The weak spots in modern diesel trucks have been found and can be easily bullet proofed with some homework and aftermarket parts.

[TT302Z28]

Just my $.02....I have a 2001 2500hd Duramax 4x4. This truck has been in the family since new and just crossed 200k. Since new it has needed the following:

Water pump

Front right hub assembly replaced

Oil

Fuel

Washer fluid

Tires.

This truck has not lived an easy life. We have towed and off roared the truck like we hate it and it keeps on going. I have carried a long bed cab over in my short bed while towing a boat behind and still out climb the hills compared to cars!

If you are ever going to tow buy the duramax! It is a heavier duty truck with an engine, trans and cooling system meant for heavy loads.

I have used my buddies 2004 2500hd that has a 6.0l engine. It is not as fun to drive, gets worse mileage and really sucks to tow with. I get 15+mpg loaded or not.

Granted, I'm coming up on the recommended head gasket change for my model engine due to a head gasket design defect in the first gen duramax engines. Big deal after little to no trouble and 200k. Worth every penny to keep this level of useable power.

[Silver69Camaro]

Man, all these problems I've been reading about newer diesels make me glad I have an 7.3L Powerstroke. Parts are cheap, good power, good economy, and very long lasting.

[JKnight]

I just had the FICM (Fuel injection control module) go out on my 06 F350. It's basically a circuit board that converts 12v to 48v so that the 48v signal can drive the injectors. Rather than do a Ford replacement, I am using an aftermarket piece that costs half as much and uses a 58v signal which drives the injectors a bit more....vigorously.

This is one of the very few issues I've had with the 6.0L (so far). The $450 part stings the wallet a bit, but it could be much worse. The upside is I should be able to turn this part failure into a slight upgrade in HP, Torque, and MPG. Again, it could be worse...

[JKnight]

Man, all these problems I've been reading about newer diesels make me glad I have an 7.3L Powerstroke. Parts are cheap, good power, good economy, and very long lasting.

I really do miss the simplicity of the 7.3L. And when tuned properly, they make great power. Upside is I sold it to my dad so it'll never be too far away.

[GregWeld]

I just had the FICM (Fuel injection control module) go out on my 06 F350. It's basically a circuit board that converts 12v to 48v so that the 48v signal can drive the injectors. Rather than do a Ford replacement, I am using an aftermarket piece that costs half as much and uses a 58v signal which drives the injectors a bit more....vigorously.

This is one of the very few issues I've had with the 6.0L (so far). The $450 part stings the wallet a bit, but it could be much worse. The upside is I should be able to turn this part failure into a slight upgrade in HP, Torque, and MPG. Again, it could be worse...



Thats the part that I just replaced in my '06 F350... but I paid $1200 for the factory version (including R&R). I was on the road in So Cal towing the trailer so wouldn't have been able to shop for anything else even if I'd have known there was a better version! The best thing was - it didn't leave me F.O.R.D. -- I was able to drive to a hotel and to the dealership the next morning. So I was happy about that!