Weak housing market? I don't think so....

[JKnight]

So my Fiance and I are trying to buy our first house right now. I held off on buying a house out of college in 2005 because I felt like housing prices were unsustainable. Turns out I was right and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.

We will be staying in the Phoenix area, so we figured with all of the news of the soft housing market, short sales, foreclosures, and bank owned properties, we would have no problems finding a decent place with a little potential.

Reality of the situation is that there are absolutely no indications that the housing market is still soft. Some even go so far as to call it a buyer's market. I don't think so. Every decent property has 4+ offers by the 3rd day on the market, all of which are significantly above asking (35-50%) and many are full cash offers (investors?). Its no wonder the supply of homes isn't going down. The investors buy these places up by the handful and relist them the next week for a 10% premium. Many of these places still need a good bit of work to be livable.

It's starting to seem as though there is very little opportunity for normal buyers to buy a humble house to live in. We are prequalified, first time buyers with no skeletons in our closet and USAA as a lender. Why in the sam h$ll I can't seem to buy a decent house is beyond me.

Thank you for allowing me to rant....

[wmhjr]

Come on out this way. The housing market is indeed weak here, and we're considered one of the less affected markets in the US. The problem is a lack of available credit keeping buyers at bay. Plenty of cheap houses.

In other places, my dad has a winter place in FL. There are tons of places that are now hundreds of thousands of dollars cheaper than they were 3 years ago. I have 2 friends who just purchases homes that were bought less than 5 years ago by the sellers. In one case, a $650K small home 4 yrs ago was just sold for $275K. Just examples.

Hope you have better luck, but I'm sure that there are deals out there. I've got friends who are building contractors, and they would unhappily agree.

[JKnight]

There's no doubt that the home prices are down significantly from 2006 levels. But the fact is those high watermark prices were absolutely insane three years ago. I guess I just thought the days of bidding wars and people making offers sight unseen were over. It appears I was wrong.

I'm not looking for a "steal", just a decent place that doesn't require $40k in renovation in the first couple years to make it liveable. I guess this would be a bit easier if I sold the Camaro and upped our budget, but what fun is a new house with a garage if you don't have anything to put in it? :thumbsup:

[Ralphlovs72chev]

Try placing an offer anyways. That is what i did and even though i was going in with less than other people the bank liked our offer best... You just never know. O and if you plan on selling the camaro it will came back to Haunt you later on just like it did me.....just my 2cents....

[jocko124]

The other thing you have to keep in mind is price point. I would venture to guess that housing priced above $500K is in more of a Buyer's market versus sub $400K housing may be in more of a seller's market.

[NOPANTS68]

I feel your pain man. I just made an offer on an investment property Saturday in the sub- $200k market. I've looked at 22 homes and it's been a war just keeping up with what's available and what isn't. By the time we made walk through appointments on some of these houses, they were locked up in escrow. It's totally insane. I've got my fingers crossed in that we found this house in the first four days since being listed, and got our offer in. I've already been warned that it's one of many though. I've also been beaten out by full cash investors three times this year.

Having said that- my broker did say that everything north of $500k in our area is pretty dead.

[orangevert]

If you qualify for a FHA loan, I hear you can buy a house that needs a little work and put the cost of the remodel into your loan and pay to get it done.

[camcojb]

My area near Sacramento is very soft now. Custom homes that sold for 1.1 million in 05/06 are now offered at under $500K, and have been for sale for a year or more.

[chr2002ca]

Yep, that's gotta be very frustrating to not be able to buy a home because of all the investors jumping in. You may see that start to slow down shortly though and more opportunities opening up for buyers like yourselves. The housing market continues to slump(not all areas are the same) as the double-dip is in full effect with no end in site. Very recent economic numbers are looking bad also so that's only go to add the housing woes as more homes come on the market. Fortunately, rates continue to dip so the situation just keeps getting better for those who wish to finance. This 'good opportunity to buy' will be around for quite a while, and prices may get even better as we progress towards the end of the year. Spring time and early summer is typically a very busy season so I'm sure that's not helping you either. I'd stay patient and persistent. You'll get one eventually. :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

So my Fiance and I are trying to buy our first house right now. I held off on buying a house out of college in 2005 because I felt like housing prices were unsustainable. Turns out I was right and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.



Actually, buying in 05 and then selling in 07 would have been a better decision.

Back to your current situation... I don't know your price point, or your interpretation of "decent" and "reasonable" but I will venture to guess you are shopping at the low end where, yes, plenty of buyers and investors are fighting for deals. This is going on in a lot of places, and low low rates are helping tremendously.

I have just begun looking at foreclosures/short sales in my area after exiting the market in 07 and happily renting since then.

A recent example maybe similar to your experience: a short sale single family house, dated but livable on a decent lot in a decent nabe, sold for $850k in 05, asking $350k now... in contract in less than a week and likely over asking by $50k I'd venture to guess... and likely an investor, or maybe not.

I would say don't mistake common cases of intentionally underpricing properties to generate activity and offers with a "strong market".

Your results may vary.

[JKnight]

I have no doubt this is specific to certain markets and price ranges. We are looking in the sub-225k arena. I'm sure we would have an easier time in the upper end, but I'm not at that point in my 28 year old life yet. I'm content with that though, as it's really my hobbies and friends that make my life fulfilling, not my house. Plus, I'm ok with trying my hand at household renovation since the Camaro is finished...to some extent.

When it comes down to it though, a significant percentage of the country lives in, and is shopping for, homes that are in the range in which we are shopping. The dollar value of that home will obviously vary by region, as we all know Phoenix's $200k is California's $350k (or more). Given that, I continue to be surprised at the fervor in this portion of the market.

[Vegas69]

I thought the whistle blew and I was off work. :D

Seriously though, I've been an agent in Vegas for 11 years and I've owned investment property in the Vegas valley and greater Phoenix area. Our markets are very similar with a stronger job market in Phoenix. I've been seeing multiple offers on reasonably price bank owned properties since 2008. Here's where it gets interesting. The market in both areas has continued to depreciate. Here's the problem. For every sale, another 1.xx distress homeowners replaces it. We have been in the 3000-4000 sales per month range for well over a year. That's exactly the same volume we had at the peak of the market. Difference, very few were in foreclosure or in a bad financial hardship at that time.

Will prices continue to decrease? Probably... Here's what I find. You can buy for less outlay per month or close with rates at 4.25% today! We have leased more properties this year than have been put up for rent. Why? All these folks that have lost their home to foreclosure or short sold their home must go somewhere. Also, many like Dave won't jump off the fence. Can't blame him.

The bottom line, it may very well make sense for you to buy now even if the market depreciates. If you lock in a rate of 4.25% now and the market depreciates 10% in 2 years, but the rates are now 6.25%, what cost you more money when it's time to sell?

Which leads me down the next road, timing is everything in Real Estate. How long do you plan to own the house? Let's say you answer 10 years, but in 5 years you get a job transfer or whatever. What is your payment vs. market rent. I can tell you now, you will likely be in the black every month. That is what we call an investment property. Your tenant pays down the principal every month and you pocket a few bucks. You sell when the TIMING is right.

See, that's what everybody forgot about in 2005. Real Estate can't go down in value, I can always refinance, everybody makes a killing. Wrong, you must put yourself in a postion where you can time the market, regardless of economical circumstances.

200k in Phoenix is well above average, unless you are in Scottsdale. My advice is not to get sucked into paying to much. Another one is coming down the pipe. One thing your agent can look for(And you better have a really good agent with a proven track record, if not, fire them and find one of I can)is a pre approved short sale or one that has been approved in the past and the buyer got sick of waiting. Everybody wants to buy bank owned and they go mulitple offer all the time. Especially around median or under. Just be careful and make sure your agent asks alot of questions. If the answers aren't right, move on. Those questions are:

Is the homeowner in default?
What is their hardship?
How many lien holders and which banks?
Are they in the hole every month?
What terms were approved in the past?(If it had been approved)

30% of short sales close due to inexperienced listing agents. Mainly, taking on short sales that don't have a chance.(no hardship) Or they just flat don't know what they are doing and sell the property way to cheap.

[Flash68]

Todd knows what he speaks of. Lots of good info there. (Surprised it took you so long to post on this one Todd. :D)

Too many people also just want to buy just to be "homeowners" (not saying that is you, Jeff, but just putting it out there). You know, the George Bush "Ownership Society" propaganda. :lol:

As Todd said, timing is paramount. The longer your holding period, the less important the exact timing of the buy or sale is. But I like to nail the timing on both ends as much as I can. Being one of, or the absolute, single biggest "investments" of most people's lives, people should do more research and educate themselves as much as humanly possibly on the process, stats, etc.

Best of luck in your search. Patience and time is on your side. :cheers:

[JKnight]

I appreciate your input Todd. Much of what you discussed fits in with my current thinking. My "plan" is to stay there for at least five years, but it could very well end up 15. We're not looking in Scottsdale. Neither of us care about having a Scottsdale address and the club/bar scene is not important. We're more of the 'build/buy a nice backyard and have the party at your house' kind of people. Maybe down the road for our second house we will be looking for a more upscale Scottsdale locale.

With all that said, your points about the real estate agent and the questions they should be asking has me thinking I'm not working with the right person. I don't get the impression that this lady knows much about short sale/bank owned properties since I haven't heard her ask any of those questions, or provide me with the corresponding answers. I think her lack of comfort with these sales is confirmed by her gently nudging us towards traditional sales.

[JKnight]

Too many people also just want to buy just to be "homeowners" (not saying that is you, Jeff, but just putting it out there). You know, the George Bush "Ownership Society" propaganda. :lol:

As Todd said, timing is paramount. The longer your holding period, the less important the exact timing of the buy or sale is. But I like to nail the timing on both ends as much as I can. Being one of, or the absolute, single biggest "investments" of most people's lives, people should do more research and educate themselves as much as humanly possibly on the process, stats, etc.

Best of luck in your search. Patience and time is on your side. :cheers:

I definitely know a few of those "homeowners", and a few of them are good friends. Part of my motivation to buy is I find myself fixing up the rentals I live in far too often, and am ready to put those efforts into something that actually belongs to me. Not to mention, I could really use the tax breaks!

I've definitely got a lot to learn, but my hope is that I can be patient enough to make a good decision when the time comes.

[Vegas69]

I appreciate your input Todd. Much of what you discussed fits in with my current thinking. My "plan" is to stay there for at least five years, but it could very well end up 15. We're not looking in Scottsdale. Neither of us care about having a Scottsdale address and the club/bar scene is not important. We're more of the 'build/buy a nice backyard and have the party at your house' kind of people. Maybe down the road for our second house we will be looking for a more upscale Scottsdale locale.

With all that said, your points about the real estate agent and the questions they should be asking has me thinking I'm not working with the right person. I don't get the impression that this lady knows much about short sale/bank owned properties since I haven't heard her ask any of those questions, or provide me with the corresponding answers. I think her lack of comfort with these sales is confirmed by her gently nudging us towards traditional sales.

The days of your brothers, friends, buddy that does it part time successfully are long gone. The market is just to complicated to make a living at it casually. If you need a referral, I have access to a list of certified residential specialists along with the RE/MAX roster. All I need is your primary city and I'm happy to do it for you.

[slow4dr]

*sorry for the long post*

Something else I bet Todd could elaborate on is "Shadow Inventory". IMO a 4-5 month surplus of houses is IMO a good amount to have a stable market. If all the houses that are currently in default were suddenly placed on the market we'd probably have a year or more of inventory driving the prices even lower.

I was in the market in SoCal with a similar budget as you just last year. I live in the outskirts(70 miles East of L.A.) so you'd be surprised what $200K can get you out here(since the $200K vs. $350K comparison). Anyway, I viewed over 100 houses and made 30+ offers over the course of 7 months. I used 20 or more different agents during this time too. I started a small database with pictures, listing dates and all pertinent information to track them all. Even though this was my second house I learned much more this time around than I did the first time. I found all the houses myself via Redfin because not one of those agents were very heplful finding what we were looking for. I was browsing Redfin 2-3 times a day trying to find properties.

I was losing my mind because I kept getting outbid and/or equal bids but cash offers. Either that or we'd find a great house but it was damaged in one way or another pushing it out of our price range due to repair costs. After nearly 7 months of stressing out we finally closed on an REO property the day after Christmas. The funny thing is we looked at this house back in the Summer and kinda wrote if off due to it needing all new floor coverings. It kept falling out of escrow so the listing agent sprung for carpet(not my favorite but since it was new I agreed). This situation was the one thing that was very surprising to me was how many houses that I made offers on were coming back on the market months later.

Many of the houses that were bid over asking were not appraising for enough so the financed offers were taking the back seat to cash offers. The absolutely craziest thing to me was in spite of that fact we were still able to buy this house and walk into 19% equity. FHA loan that I was immediately able to start negotiating the removal of PMI.


One thing that I am a little purturbed about is this house was vacant for nearly 300 days. The lawns were trash and I would strongly suggest if you end up with something like this to have the house gased before you move in. I think every creature in the neighborhood had shacked up in there.

My life lesson is to just try and be patient, the right one will come along eventually.


-J

[JKnight]

So it looks like we may have been on the receiving end of some good luck and gotten ourselves exactly what we were looking for. There was one particular house that we loved, but missed out on due to an offer on the first day of listing. In fact, that was part of what prompted me to start this thread. Turns out the buyer who placed the first offer ended up backing out, and we were able to step in.

There were two other offers on the same day as ours, but we sweetened the pot just a bit and the seller has accepted our offer. Now we just need the bank to approve. We've been told the bank is done with all of the "paperwork" and that the hardship (medical) has been substantiated and approved. There is a 1st and a HELOC, so both entities will need to give their approval.

Fingers are crossed, I want this process to be over!

[GregWeld]

Good for you Jeff!


I own a condo in TEMPE (Broadway just off the 101) --- it's worth far less than HALF what I paid (all cash)... so I'll "time" the market by just passing it down to my grandkids IF I ever get any... :rofl: :rofl:

In the meantime - I'll use it a couple times a year -- it beats a hotel during Barrett Jackass season...

[Flash68]

Best of luck Jeff!

[slow4dr]

That's good to hear Jeff.

I don't want to be a debbie downer but until the banks approve the terms of the contract you really should keep looking and making offers. The wife and I also fell in love with a place that was a short sale(one loan). Almost 120 days after making the offer the bank came back with $30K over what the house was listed for. There wasn't a "Comp" within 10 miles that could substantiate it. We raised our offer $10K(knowing full well we would have a tough time getting an appraisal high enough for an FHA loan) and they declined. The house eventually went to foreclosure and sold for roughly what we had originally offered.


-J

[JKnight]

No worries, we're staying cautiously optimistic because we know that its far from a done deal. We have a sold comp from April that was the same layout, but without the 400 sq ft. addition and not updated inside at all. That comp sale price is $7k less than our offer. We're hoping the appraisal won't be an issue given the updates, larger lot and larger sq ft. of this house.

The listing agent continues to provide updates indicating that the bank is moving quickly, but I won't hold my breath.

[Vegas69]

A medical hardship is as good as it gets as long as it's documented. There is nothing wrong with providing documentation. I closed one last month on the listing side with a restraining order on a neighbor. Unique, but I got it done with no money and no deficiency. She was making 95k a year and could afford the house.

A 2nd will ALWAYS want money from the seller. They are in second position and will make it tough on the first to get there money. The 1st will normally offer the 2nd a chunk to step out of the way. With a real hardship and proof of little liquidity, the first contribution should suffice. If she has a chunk in the bank, it could be a different story.

[JKnight]

As always your input is appreciated Todd.

The sellers are very organized and responsive, so their medical hardship was documented with the bank before the house was listed.

I am a little concerned about the second lienholder. Definitely adds another variable to the process. I wish there was more I could do to ensure success, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be possible given my role in this deal.

[John510]

So my Fiance and I are trying to buy our first house right now. I held off on buying a house out of college in 2005 because I felt like housing prices were unsustainable. Turns out I was right and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.

We will be staying in the Phoenix area, so we figured with all of the news of the soft housing market, short sales, foreclosures, and bank owned properties, we would have no problems finding a decent place with a little potential.

Reality of the situation is that there are absolutely no indications that the housing market is still soft. Some even go so far as to call it a buyer's market. I don't think so. Every decent property has 4+ offers by the 3rd day on the market, all of which are significantly above asking (35-50%) and many are full cash offers (investors?). Its no wonder the supply of homes isn't going down. The investors buy these places up by the handful and relist them the next week for a 10% premium. Many of these places still need a good bit of work to be livable.

It's starting to seem as though there is very little opportunity for normal buyers to buy a humble house to live in. We are prequalified, first time buyers with no skeletons in our closet and USAA as a lender. Why in the sam h$ll I can't seem to buy a decent house is beyond me.

Thank you for allowing me to rant....


If you are buying with a conventional loan I would not waste your time looking at Foreclosures or REOs. The banks will take a cash offer over a loan anyday. Even on a short sale, the bank will look at the cash offer over a loan. Most houses under 200K are bought full cash these days (at least here in CA) because you can buy them for cheap and rent them. My advice is if you are paying with a loan, look for a non distressed property. I look at homes every single day and yes, they sell within days of posting. I just bought a condo 2 weeks ago and it had 8 cash offers within 2 days of listing.

[John510]

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/wiki/REO_Database_List.asp

check this link to bank real owned properties, these are properties the banks tried to auction and couldn't sell, they need to unload em so you might find a sweet deal...good luck

You can NOT buy a REO with a conventional loan. Cash Only

[GregWeld]

I'm trying to buy a 70MM building..... the builder (Starbucks) spent $422 per sq foot to build - and the asking price is $243 per square foot... it's a 287,853 sq ft building.

There are no "trick" financing deals -- and the winning bidder will have financing in place and a buttload of cash or they won't even look at the offer. And there are plenty of people willing to bid. No shortage of buyers just a shortage of REAL buyers.

[GregWeld]

Here's a little "blurb" in the offering memorandum.... which basically is telling a potential buyer -- "go away if you're a bozo with no money and no financing". LOL


In addition to price, deposit amounts, timing and terms, the Seller will be focusing on qualitative factors such as certainty of closing, required approval processes and due diligence completed to date. If applicable, please also indicate in your offer, your approach to leverage in underwriting the asset.

[Blake Foster]

I'm trying to buy a 70MM building..... the builder (Starbucks) spent $422 per sq foot to build - and the asking price is $243 per square foot... it's a 287,853 sq ft building.

There are no "trick" financing deals -- and the winning bidder will have financing in place and a buttload of cash or they won't even look at the offer. And there are plenty of people willing to bid. No shortage of buyers just a shortage of REAL buyers.

what are you going to do with 287,853 Sq FEET!!!???? lol

[Blake Foster]

i keep looking at houses in different parts of the country mainly southern Utah and New Mexico, and i see GREAT DEALS..... when compared to Vancouver!!! but nothing is being given away like you keep hearing about.
but take StGeorge Utah, i could buy a lot for say 80K where here the same lot ( that includes a ton more RAIN at no charge) would be 300-400k obviously location makes a HUGE differance.
a 450-500 k finished house in St George is the same as a 1 - 1.2 million house here so to me its a DEAL!!
i often wonder what the 50k forclosure house is like and what is the neighbour "HOOD" like??

[bdahlg68]

what are you going to do with 287,853 Sq FEET!!!???? lol

Better yet, where did you get 70MM?????? :_paranoid

[Vegas69]

You can NOT buy a REO with a conventional loan. Cash Only

That's not true, I've sold a butt load of REO's over the past 5 years. You can even buy at the auctions with financing now. CASH is always king. BUT, the net to the bank in a short sale/reo is normally their primary concern. As long as the property is financable. Short sales are strickly a net game. They could care less if it's cash or financed. It's a debt negotiation and it's all about the bottom line to the lien holder's.

The deals almost always go cash and the lower end market can be investor heavy. I agree with that.

[John510]

That's not true, I've sold a butt load of REO's over the past 5 years. You can even buy at the auctions with financing now. CASH is always king. BUT, the net to the bank in a short sale/reo is normally their primary concern. As long as the property is financable. Short sales are strickly a net game. They could care less if it's cash or financed. It's a debt negotiation and it's all about the bottom line to the lien holder's.

The deals almost always go cash and the lower end market can be investor heavy. I agree with that.

Here in the Bay Area every single REO I have seen has said "Cash offers only" on the MLS listing

[Vegas69]

It must be a very good market. One other variable is financing older property. Financing has become very difficult to obtain on properties with dificiencies. The oldest house I've sold this year was built in 1978 and they wouldn't finance it with 20% down unless it had a hot water heater. I always say, it went from a pinkie swear to a pain in the ass!

[GregWeld]

what are you going to do with 287,853 Sq FEET!!!???? lol

Well -- er um.......


Long story - and wasn't trying to brag or spill in this thread... but "investing" is what I do... I'm retired - but I still have to invest.

So the company we just sold to EMC.... just leased two floors in this building for 10 years -- and then they (Starbucks) put it up for sale... so three of us are planning a run to buy it. This just came on the market like last week... so now I'm scrambling trying to put together the due diligence etc and I've been "appointed" (by the other two) to be the "lead" (in other words - do all the work) on this deal. We'll see -- we'll want to steal it to make it all work to our advantage but we think it would be a good buy - long term. Its brand spanking new - was mostly vacant until this lease deal - and will be a nice waterfront view building when they tear down the viaduct.

Thread jack over -- returning to the OP..... I was just trying to say that regardless of what you're trying to buy - large or small - you've got to have all your ducks in a row... it's ALL about the quality of the buyer now which is 180* from what it was (which got us in this mess).

[Blake Foster]

well if having their ducks in a row was a competition?? ( and lets be honest, it is ) you my friend would probably be in the lead at this point.
:thumbsup:

[ironworks]

That's good to hear Jeff.

I don't want to be a debbie downer but until the banks approve the terms of the contract you really should keep looking and making offers. The wife and I also fell in love with a place that was a short sale(one loan). Almost 120 days after making the offer the bank came back with $30K over what the house was listed for. There wasn't a "Comp" within 10 miles that could substantiate it. We raised our offer $10K(knowing full well we would have a tough time getting an appraisal high enough for an FHA loan) and they declined. The house eventually went to foreclosure and sold for roughly what we had originally offered.


-J

I went through a similar deal, the bank countered back for 30k over asking. But what my agent told me is we should have agreed to there price because they will only be able to sell it for what it appraisal is. Nothing more.

There is nothing short about a short sale they take forever. Finally after 4 month of waiting the said house in now in escrow.

[JKnight]

I went through a similar deal, the bank countered back for 30k over asking. But what my agent told me is we should have agreed to there price because they will only be able to sell it for what it appraisal is. Nothing more.

There is nothing short about a short sale they take forever. Finally after 4 month of waiting the said house in now in escrow.

We're hoping (there's that word again) that the bank won't be so bold as to try that. In this case, there's a solid, recent comp that they are aware of (they used it to set their listing price), so they should know roughly where the BPO will come in. But there I go again, assuming that people think and act rationally.

Your agent is probably right though, in that situation I guess we would just accept and then let the appraisal set them straight on their counter offer.

[ironworks]

good info here

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/housing-crash-is-getting-worse-2011-05-09?pagenumber=2

[GregWeld]

Buy Low - Sell High... oldest way in the world to make money.

NOW is the time to be buying distressed assets... but you'll have to take a long term view of the world.

Interest rates are low -- prices are low -- you make money on the BUY side of a deal.

The idiots that have lost their asses all bought HIGH and sold low..... forced sellers have no bargaining power. BUYERS now have time on their side - if you have real assets - real cash - real credit.... you can get yourself on the right side of a deal.

A HOME is not a place to look to make money. It is your HOME. You have to live somewhere... whether you're paying rent or a mortgage... but it's a place to buy LOW and hope that over time (when they cart you off to the home) you might have an ASSET that will provide for you. This ASSET should not ever be used as your personal piggy bank. The GOAL should be to pay it off as fast as possible so that when you finally retire - you can live there with very low cost. Period. When it goes up - you don't re-fi into another 30 year mortgage when you're already 40 years old! Idiots do that. Try making that mortgage with your part time pay at McDonalds/Wal Mart and the paltry Social Security check you're going to get when you're 70 years old.

[Blake Foster]

ok your system must be way different than ours,
Why is the bank making offers on the house that is 30K higher than the asking price???
when i buy a house the asking is say 450,000 i offer 440,000 they counter at 445 i say ok and the bank transfers the mortgage and done???

[JKnight]

Blake, I know your question is directed toward Roger, but I'll chime in anyway.

The concept of "asking price" has gotten really mangled in the last few years, which is really at the heart of my complaint. Banks will list a house for $175 when what they really want to get is $200k. So you come in with a legit offer of $175, maybe even $180, and like Roger said the bank may counter for $200k. Why didn't they just list it at $200k in the first place....

[slow4dr]

That right there is the difference between an approved short sale and one that isn't. On a non approved short sale the listing agent is using comps to set a price and get some offers. You will see non-approved short sale prices drop quickly and often until they get an offer. Then the agent will take the offer to the leinholder/leinholders to negotiate what they are actually willing to sell the property for.


-J

[ironworks]

Blake, with a non approved short sale, the listing agent list the home for the distressed owner. They slap an asking price on it. Then if it's a good deal every body gets in line with an offer. In Bakersfield the market is different just going across town. Then once the home owner accepts one of the offers it goes to the Bank to see if they will settle the debt for less. They are obviously trying to get the most money possible. So that is where the counter offer comes.

But the house can only sell for appraised value. So if the back wants more then the appraisal says it's worth. Then the banks price has to get lowered. The house we just bought was listed at 135k, in the rush of offers we offered 145. My wife loved the house. Then 3 months later the bank came back and said they want 165. So we countered again. My realtor told me she some times offers more and then put hidden concessions. So we did 155 with the 3.5% back. Which is means we really offered 150ish but it sounds like 155. The bank agreed and it is now in escrow.

Some times if there are more then 2 loans, the banks can never agree so the house just forecloses. The real estate market here is really hit bottom. I know a guy who short sold a house he owed 240 on for 80K. Crazy what the market is.

[TimeWarpF100]

So my Fiance and I are trying to buy our first house right now. I held off on buying a house out of college in 2005 because I felt like housing prices were unsustainable. Turns out I was right and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.

We will be staying in the Phoenix area, so we figured with all of the news of the soft housing market, short sales, foreclosures, and bank owned properties, we would have no problems finding a decent place with a little potential.

Reality of the situation is that there are absolutely no indications that the housing market is still soft. Some even go so far as to call it a buyer's market. I don't think so. Every decent property has 4+ offers by the 3rd day on the market, all of which are significantly above asking (35-50%) and many are full cash offers (investors?). Its no wonder the supply of homes isn't going down. The investors buy these places up by the handful and relist them the next week for a 10% premium. Many of these places still need a good bit of work to be livable.

It's starting to seem as though there is very little opportunity for normal buyers to buy a humble house to live in. We are prequalified, first time buyers with no skeletons in our closet and USAA as a lender. Why in the sam h$ll I can't seem to buy a decent house is beyond me.

Thank you for allowing me to rant....

Phoenix area is a very tough market to buy right now as a lot of Canadian and other investors are buying them up.

We sold our home in spokane after 5yrs of trying. Thought it would be cake walk to buy a place with over 50,000 homes listed. Problem is when you take out HOA there are under 9000 left. Add in a pool or shop and very little left.
I have made 6 trips to Phoenix to find a place. 1st offer was 375 on a short sale that seller approved of. Bank said no... Less than 30days later the bank sold it for 288k and then was turned in under a week for 320k. Smelled for an inside job of sorts.

We have looked at well over 100 homes in phx area. The ones with decent pricing as you say are getting offers well over asking price. Recently bid well over asking price on a Bank owned home only to find even though we were high bidder the bank came back and said they were taking highest and best and gave us less than 3hrs to bump our bid. Because the property had major zoning violations and the bank would tell us nothing we refused to raise our bid and it was awarded to someone else.

Time and time again I am seeing houses in phx area selling for less than my bid as the banks are so crooked trying to bump them. Kind of like a car dealer asking a certain price then you offering more and dealer not selling, crooked to say the least.

Most of my stuff is now in phx and the final move is this tuesday. I have no idea where I will be staying until a place is found.

I was quoted 30k plus for the move plus 5 vehicles, bought my own Semi which is also being used for storage. Waiting game to find something.

Good luck with your purchase!

[GregWeld]

I'm trying to buy a 70MM building..... the builder (Starbucks) spent $422 per sq foot to build - and the asking price is $243 per square foot... it's a 287,853 sq ft building.

There are no "trick" financing deals -- and the winning bidder will have financing in place and a buttload of cash or they won't even look at the offer. And there are plenty of people willing to bid. No shortage of buyers just a shortage of REAL buyers.


AN UPDATE JUST IN CASE ANYONE CARES...

:D


So for all of you trying to buy "short sales" etc..... I had posted this up and we've been working on bids etc for a few weeks now... the building SOLD for 125 MILLION..... we started bidding at 70MM.... There were multiple players on this building. The bidding requirements were "stiff" and no nonsense. They (Starbucks) wanted a top notch buyer - with CASH... and financing guaranteed... No "recession" in the commercial market here in Seattle if the building is class A and occupied with long term tenants! This building was only 64% occupied and needed an additional 6MM in TI's!

[JKnight]

We always care about how the "other half" lives Greg! It enables us to live vicariously through you.

Our update is that the second lender (the one with the heloc) has approved the short sale, now just waiting on the first. After that's done we just hope the appraisal and inspection work out right and should be smooth sailing.

[GregWeld]

We always care about how the "other half" lives Greg! It enables us to live vicariously through you.

Our update is that the second lender (the one with the heloc) has approved the short sale, now just waiting on the first. After that's done we just hope the appraisal and inspection work out right and should be smooth sailing.

Good to hear!

"WE" did not put in the winning bid... I'm not into paying too much for anything (except pro built '32 Roadsters :lol: )