After third try, LS3 STILL won't go in

[ModernMuseum]

Ufh...after the third weekend in a row, this thing still won't go in. I think I'm going to rename this project "Hopeless."

Vehicle: 69 firebird
Engine stands: 68 camaro?
Engine: ls3
trans: t-56
Adapter plates: s&p
Energy Suspension Mounts 3-1117G

It appears that either the engine stands or suspension mounts are incorrect for the application. As you can see from the below photos, the engine won't go all the way down onto the stands. The stands appear to be too narrow and possibly a little low, so the engine is getting wedged before it will sit down.

I guess if I can't procure the correct parts to get this thing in, I'll have to bag everything up and take it somewhere to get some custom mounts made.

See below photos:

Friday night was wasted after I figured out the adapter plates wrong installed backwards, which came pre-installed when the engine arrived. Thanks Prodigy Customs :thumbsup: After taking the plates off, I noticed that S&P even engraved what side they go on. Geez.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2583/5778057928_a01669933d_z.jpg

Ufh, anyway, today, after lowering the engine as far as it would go, this is about as far as it would get. Passenger side:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3512/5778006228_1bbd8b0ac7_z.jpg

Driver's side
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5183/5777437173_e2799ab517_z.jpg

Passenger side stand installed (the partial mount on the right is what came on the car....I won't be able to remove it until I compress the springs since one bolt holds the A-arm on):
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5302/5777461651_12fe19d244_z.jpg

Both mounts installed
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2754/5777999834_6991de2b42_z.jpg




Am I doing something wrong here? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I think my buddies are getting kind of annoyed coming over when we start putting things together only to figure out that we have the wrong parts or things won't go together correctly.

[ModernMuseum]

Here's the mounts that came on the car when I received it. I guess there are different styles for the firebird and camaro? I had to take the top half off so I could get the engine stands on.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/4621423708_d74386af64_o.jpg

[Rybar]

Remove the pre-load plates from those energy suspension mounts and you should be golden. I had the same problem.

[ModernMuseum]

Ya, I considered that, but the instructions said not to remove them. Did you experience any adverse side effects from not pre-loading the mounts?

[Rybar]

No seemed fine to me but I did switch over to solid mounts this past year.

[Vegas69]

Didn't you break some poly mounts Ryan?

[absinthe]

use the preload plates! without them the poly will literally come apart on the first rev.

I was having the same problem with mine and here are some of the solutions possible to you that I tried:

1. Energy suspension makes an adapter plate kit that is the mount and adapter plate. Thay are built without the preload plate and "skinny" up the mounts.

2. Check to make sure you have the right ones---there are "tall-narrow" and "short-wide"

[Mkelcy]

use the preload plates! without them the poly will literally come apart on the first rev.

I was having the same problem with mine and here are some of the solutions possible to you that I tried:

1. Energy suspension makes an adapter plate kit that is the mount and adapter plate. Thay are built without the preload plate and "skinny" up the mounts.

2. Check to make sure you have the right ones---there are "tall-narrow" and "short-wide"

Why wouldn't the solid aluminum adapter plates provide the same preload as the preload plates?

[ModernMuseum]

use the preload plates! without them the poly will literally come apart on the first rev.

I was having the same problem with mine and here are some of the solutions possible to you that I tried:

1. Energy suspension makes an adapter plate kit that is the mount and adapter plate. Thay are built without the preload plate and "skinny" up the mounts.

2. Check to make sure you have the right ones---there are "tall-narrow" and "short-wide"

Thanks. Do you happen to have the part numbers of the skinny ones?

What about these solid ones that you guys are talking about? Thanks for the replies. This is VERY frustrating :mad:

[MarkM66]

Thanks. Do you happen to have the part numbers of the skinny ones?

What about these solid ones that you guys are talking about? Thanks for the replies. This is VERY frustrating :mad:

The solid aluminum plate Mike is referring to is that plate you're bolting to your engine, that is suppose to put your LS in the right place.

Remove the plates behind the mounts and see if it fits. I agree with Mike, with them being bolted to a flat solid piece, I don't see why they're needed.

[ModernMuseum]

The solid aluminum plate Mike is referring to is that plate you're bolting to your engine, that is suppose to put your LS in the right place.

Remove the plates behind the mounts and see if it fits. I agree with Mike, with them being bolted to a flat solid piece, I don't see why they're needed.

Thanks for the replies, gents.

I'll take another look at the mount specifically tonight. I think if you remove the plate though, the rubber doesn't really have any damping qualities.

I spoke to S&P this morning and they are shipping me some "regular" or "original" style mounts. He referred to the ones I currently have (the Energy Suspension mounts shown in the pics) as the "heavy duty" type which may be too thick. When I get them, I'll post up some more pics.

[camcojb]

Thanks for the replies, gents.

I'll take another look at the mount specifically tonight. I think if you remove the plate though, the rubber doesn't really have any damping qualities.

I spoke to S&P this morning and they are shipping me some "regular" or "original" style mounts. He referred to the ones I currently have (the Energy Suspension mounts shown in the pics) as the "heavy duty" type which may be too thick. When I get them, I'll post up some more pics.
you cannot interchange short and wide with tall and narrow, unless you change the frame mounts also. If these fit over the frame pads snugly (not a 1/4" gap or so) then they are correct. Hopefully the original style mounts solve the issue.

[MarkM66]

Thanks for the replies, gents.

I'll take another look at the mount specifically tonight. I think if you remove the plate though, the rubber doesn't really have any damping qualities.

I spoke to S&P this morning and they are shipping me some "regular" or "original" style mounts. He referred to the ones I currently have (the Energy Suspension mounts shown in the pics) as the "heavy duty" type which may be too thick. When I get them, I'll post up some more pics.

Those plates that come with the ES mounts are to stop the mount from distorting when bolted directly to an engine block. Since most engine blocks use mounting bossed which extend from the block.

If you bolt them to a adapter plate, these would not be needed.

The "dampening qualities" come from the poly material inside the mount.

[ModernMuseum]

Those plates that come with the ES mounts are to stop the mount from distorting when bolted directly to an engine block. Since most engine blocks use mounting bossed which extend from the block.

If you bolt them to a adapter plate, these would not be needed.

The "dampening qualities" come from the poly material inside the mount.

Ahh, I gotcha. I'll probably try it with the mounts that I have then without the compression plate before I try the other ones. I think they 'might' fit without the compression plates.

I took some quick dimensions of my pedestals, which are as follows:

Driver's side:
2.5" tall
2-5/8" width

Passenger's side:
2.75" tall
2-5/8" width

The energy suspension mounts I have right now are pretty much 2-5/8" wide as well, so the fit is very snug.

[Rybar]

Todd is correct, I wrecked two sets of the poly mounts before switching to solid. But the mounts felt fine to me, I never noticed any issues until a buddy pointed it out to me, so maybe the preload plates are needed? But I had the same issue as the OP, the motor wouldn't fit with them.

[ModernMuseum]

Todd is correct, I wrecked two sets of the poly mounts before switching to solid. But the mounts felt fine to me, I never noticed any issues until a buddy pointed it out to me, so maybe the preload plates are needed? But I had the same issue as the OP, the motor wouldn't fit with them.

Hrmm...I'm on the fence now :lol:

The only difference I can foresee if I don't go with the pre-load plates is the point of contact. Since the pre-load plates have the ridge in the middle, the only part of the pre-load plate that touches the S&P adapter plate is in the middle. The pre-load plate actually gets warped a little when it is tightened down.

However, without the plate, all of the rubber section in the middle will be touching the S&P adapter plate. It will still be crushed a bit (so I'm guessing it will be pre-loaded), but the engine mount's contact surface will be the full area of the surrounding metal as well as the full rubber area.

With the pre-load plates, the contact surface between the engine mount and adapter plate is the ridge in the middle and the outer perimeter where it bolts down.

[AM.MSCL]

I have been told that the firebirds have a different centerlink then the Camaros and it sits in a slightly different location by about a 1/4" towards the firewall. Due to this fact the Oil pan will sit on it and not allow the engine to fully align with the bolts on the mounts. The Oil pan has to be modified to clear the centerlink.
Hopefully you verified that the oil pan is not hitting something already?!

[ModernMuseum]

I have been told that the firebirds have a different centerlink then the Camaros and it sits in a slightly different location by about a 1/4" towards the firewall. Due to this fact the Oil pan will sit on it and not allow the engine to fully align with the bolts on the mounts. The Oil pan has to be modified to clear the centerlink.
Hopefully you verified that the oil pan is not hitting something already?!

You are correct. The firebirds and camaros have different center links. The firebird center link is more or less straight and the camaro link has a slight bend in it. I have already taken the center link out and have a camaro center link to put in its place.

I have a champ road racing pan, and I am pretty sure it will clear the bottom cross-member (and hopefully the camaro center-link). I have been told that the 69 sub-frame is the same as a 68 camaro sub-frame.

[ModernMuseum]

Ok, I got the "thin" or "regular" mounts in from S&P. There don't appear to be any dimensional differences between them and the Energy Suspension mounts. The "regular" type just have the back plate molded into the rubber as a single piece, but after several measurements, they appear to be the same dimensionally.

I guess my only option is to use the Energy Suspension mounts and leave the back compression plate off. Hopefully this will mate up and not shorten the life of the mount. I don't really see how it would shorten the life since it's mated to the adapter plate though. I just foresee a slightly different loading on the rubber part of the mount, since the rubber will be flush with the adapter plate instead of the wedged back plate being present.

[Rybar]

Or just run solid mounts :unibrow:

[Vegas69]

This all jogged my memory. Energy mounts are about an 1/8 taller than a factory rubber mount.(That's 1/4" total) 302/350 rubber factory mounts are interlocking as well. Solid mounts have there pluses and minuses.:unibrow:

[70rs]

So is that bad boy installed yet?

[214Chevy]

So is that bad boy installed yet?

X2....update??

[NvrDun71]

X2....update??

x3 :thumbsup:

[NvrDun71]

What ever became of this?

[NvrDun71]

What ever became of this ordeal? lol. I have a set of energy suspension mounts with S&P plates and wondering if I will be having the same problem? Any info is appreciated as I am on the fence about the backing plate as well.

[KSBRKTRACER]

Did you ever get this resolved . I'm interested also. I also have the poly mounts on a 454 in a 67 camaro and cant get them down over the mounts, the engine fit perfect with solid mounts and I wanted to calm it down a little bit.

[64pontiac]

You may have this figured out already, but I figured I could chime in.

You do not use the preload plates when running an LS adapter plate. The adapter plate becomes the preload plate. When we machine our own adapters we put a pocket in for the "bulge" of poly just like the stamped metal preload plate. The metal preload plate is used when you put the mount on a chevy SB or BB, just as has been posted.

Also, I will point out that on ATS mounts, Art Morrison Mounts, and our own mounts the energy mount pad is actually "upside down" in relation to how you normally view the mount. This helps lower the motor.


Make sure your stands that bolt to the frame are for a Chevy too, if one is taller from the bolt hole center to the top surface it won't help your situation