My customer experience with Prodigy Customs

[carbuff]

I've been holding off making this post for a long time, probably too long, but it's time to share my experience with the rest of the Lat-G community... I'm doing so because I realized today that yesterday was exactly 5 months since the final payment was made to Prodigy for parts that were ordered in November. And while many of the items from my order have arrived, the biggest still has not, and I'm tired of my phone calls and emails over the last few weeks not being returned...

Since I'm sure folks will want some details, I'll try to document my experience as a Prodigy customer as best I can here. It breaks down into 3 separate purchases with a few modifications along the way.

My first purchase from Prodigy was for a Rick's / Vaporworx Gas Tank for my 2nd gen. I placed that order as part of the GP that was done right after these tanks were announced. Payment was made for that tank on September 30th. Frank told me that they had one on order for one of their own in-house projects, and he wanted to get that in (time estimate of 2-4 weeks) before he ordered the rest to make sure there weren't going to be any surprises or problems. Ok, that makes sense...

As the tank became part of a larger purchase, I won't go into the details here, except to say that as of March, I still didn't have my tank. After a post that I saw from someone else, I made a call to Rick's and spoke to Hector. At that time, Rick's didn't have an order for my tank! I asked him if they were actually shipping the tanks, and he told me yes, they had been since September. So I email Frank, and he has no idea that Prodigy hasn't even ordered my tank yet. Um, hello? This unfortunately becomes a pattern as I discover.

My second purchase was part of another Prodigy GP, this time their 20% discount for a set of Forgelines. I gave Frank a deposit for 1/2 of the set of wheels since I hadn't decided exactly which style or BS I was going to run. I was the holdup on these for a while, until recently. About a month ago, Frank posted here that he had a set of the GA3 centers for sale, and since that is the wheel I decided on, I agreed to buy them. After doing some research and measuring, I decided on what I wanted. I've since been trying to finalize this order to get the wheels done, to pay the remainder of my balance, and to get the wheels on the way to me. I've made 3 phone calls or emails in the last month... No reply or returned phone calls during this time. (and I just love reading replies to other posts saying "just give me a call" during this time. gripes me to no end...)

So then my third purchase, this was the big one. I was having conversations with Frank for a few weeks as I decided what engine, suspension, brakes, transmission, and other purchases I was going to make. I settled in on a large, although smaller than originally discussed, list that included a T56 Magnum kit, a V/A AC kit, an AAW harness, a PRC radiator/condensor/cooler, several DSE items, a Wegner accessory kit, and a couple of other small items. The first portion of that order was paid for on November 24th. Items were supposed to be charged to my CC as they were shipped. Over the next few weeks, Prodigy made the charges to my CC, with the final payment of the remaining balance on December 9th.

Over the holidays, I ended up needing a few additional items for my engine, so Frank handled drop shipping those items to my engine builder. Those were actually handled promptly, I want to give credit where it's due.

Within the next two weeks after final payment, some of the order arrived. The DSE parts, and the PRC radiator and condenser. So we were off to a good start. But then the shipments stopped. Between the holidays and some personal and work-related travel, I didn't pursue or followup with Frank until the end of February. But at that point, I was still missing a pretty long list of items. I emailed Frank to ask about the status, and his reply indicated that he had no clue that everything hadn't been shipped. Apparently he and Lisa had a miscommunication, each thinking the other had completed the order. Well, ok, **** happens. When I tell him how much of the order hadn't arrived, he replies sounding pretty surprised, and with my favorite quote so far: "I'm making this my number 1 priority". That was February 25th.

So again, a few items start showing up via UPS. The AAW, the missing oil cooler (which didn't come with the radiator originally as it should have), the V/A items. But still no transmission. I did receive the bellhousing somewhere in here. Frank tells me on March 3rd that the transmission should have already been shipped (and when I say transmission, I mean the whole kit: clutch, shifter, trans, etc...). After two weeks and nothing arriving, I tell Frank that I'm headed out of town for a few days and to make sure nothing ships while I'm going to be gone. I gave him the exact dates to work around. I emailed him when I returned, since I hadn't heard anything and nothing had arrived, and he tells me the remaining items can ship 'tomorrow'. That was March 30th.

That was the last email that I have saved from Frank about my order. We communicated via phone a couple of times regarding the wheels, and I've emailed him with some information and questions about fitment, but with no reply. I've called twice in the last month also, no returned phone calls. And as of today, May 10th, still no transmission/clutch/shifter/etc or oil cooler adapter which I'm owed. At least the Vaporworx tank did finally arrive a couple of weeks ago, 7 months after my order and payment...

I hear about all of the great customer experiences that people have with Prodigy. Perhaps I'm the only unlucky one and 99% of the orders go off without a hitch. Maybe it's because I had a relatively large number of items on my order. Whatever the issue, my patience is gone. I'm aware that Prodigy moved their facility last month, but that's simply no excuse. I'm owed a high-dollar item, one that should have been in my hands months ago before the move even started, and having to continually chase my parts down has led to a very dis-satisfying customer experience.

I'm writing this all down because I, in large part, made my decision to send this purchase to Prodigy based on the experiences that I read about from others here and on other sites. I think it's only fair to let other people know that things don't always go so smoothly.

[killer67]

Here we go again......sorry you had a bad experience Bryan

[RickM415]

the only thing i can think of is that he is way too busy,I ordered some parts and it took longer than expected but it all got here as promised ..his prices are great but i guess you gotta wait a bit longer ,maybe he is short hand of staff or something ,communication takes a bit to get a hold of him,IMO I would buy from him again because I know he`s a car guy and I would find it hard for him to shaft someone , but now I know when i order something from him its because its for my car and not a customers car,and shouldnt expect it right away.

[killer67]

You make a good point Rick although I feel that every sponsor and member on here is a car guy/gal

[jocko124]

Bryan,

Sorry to hear about your ordeal. I applaud you for giving the members of this forum the opportunity to make an informed decision on whether or not to deal with Prodigy.

[LowchevyII]

http://michaeljacksonanimatedgifs.com/images/portfolio/mj13.gif

[XcYZ]

I'm writing this all down because I, in large part, made my decision to send this purchase to Prodigy based on the experiences that I read about from others here and on other sites. I think it's only fair to let other people know that things don't always go so smoothly.

Frank needs to make this right or Prodigy no longer needs to be a part of this community. This is the 3rd time in recent months this exact story has unfolded with Prodigy, months of waiting, charging when parts were never ordered from the manufacturer, no communication (or flat ignored), etc.

Three strikes... Frank needs to make this right (like, Today) or he will no longer be a supporting vendor here.

I feel our community is being taken advantage of without regard of consequences.

[ModernMuseum]

Sad to hear.

Not cool, not cool at all.

[chr2002ca]

Thank you for sharing your experience in detail. I'm sure you didn't like writing that post any more than the vendor likes reading it. I know how very frustrating it can be to be in your position and I only hope you get things worked out immediately. :thumbsup:

As always, a BIG thank you to Scott for representing the interests of all of us here on Lateral-G. :lateral:

[NvrDun71]

I can only chalk it up to them being extremely busy with the move of there shop as I have called several times over the last couple weeks in an attempt to place a parts order and have left voicemail's with no response back. Seems odd after the positive experiences I have had with them in the past.....

[garickman]

Frank needs to make this right or Prodigy no longer needs to be a part of this community. This is the 3rd time in recent months this exact story has unfolded with Prodigy, months of waiting, charging when parts were never ordered from the manufacturer, no communication (or flat ignored), etc.

Three strikes... Frank needs to make this right (like, Today) or he will no longer be a supporting vendor here.

I feel our community is being taken advantage of without regard of consequences.

I respect how you administer this site and look after the members of the lateral-g community.:bow: :bow:

[fesler]

I too am a vendor on this site and I think it’s funny how some people defend the hell out of others with excuses. We as vendors are all extremely busy and our top priority or at least it should be is taking care of our customers. We have all been there and we have all made mistakes, it’s how we handle them that makes us a good or bad vendor but charging someone for parts and not following up with them is not acceptable unless they are made aware up front that things may take a while. Maybe Frank is just that busy that he can’t keep his head on straight but I am sure he will chime in here and make it right.

[bret]

I am going to take off my RideTech hat and install my "friend" hat here. It is not my intent to minimize this issue, but to hopefully place some perspective on it.

Frank and Lisa are friends of mine so feel free to color any of my personal comments as you wish.

In my opinion, Frank suffers from the same ailment that mnay of us do...he is a nice guy who finds it hard to say "no". He also suffers from the same time management shortcomings as many of the rest of us. Those 2 traits, coupled with the fact that his business has increased greatly over the last couple of years, have led to the growing pains that he [and now some of his customers], may be experiencing.

In a perfect world we could all buy our parts from a vending machine...stick your money in, get your parts out. [That is, IF you knew what to order?] That is how larger businesses are run and how my accountant would like to see mine run. The reality is, we are talking about humans. Humans who may not be as effecient as a machine or a computer.

However, the same traits of being a nice guy have led Frank to assemble 30 years of valuable car knowledge. This is knowledge that has been earned by reading, talking, listening, and most importantly, being there and doing it.
This is the knowledge that we all crave...offered at no charge by someone who can ignore politically correct influences to make sure our projects have the best chance of success. Vending machines cannot offer this service.

So, does Frank and Lisa being "nice people" excuse their perceived spotty delivery record? [I say perceived because I do not have first hand knowledge of the facts of this specific case]
No, it does not.
BUT...[there's always a but involved, isnt there?] I was at Prodigy last week for a visit. They are currently working 16-18 hours a day moving into a new building that is at least double the size of the old one. This will allow them room to manuver instead of repelling over the stacks of inventory that resided in the old building.
Most importantly, he is in full search for a person to coordinate the ordering and delivery of his products. Although this detail may be taken for granted by civilians, it is a crucial position that requires complete focus...focus that a business owner simply cannot provide. I do speak from experience on this point.

My point: Carbuff has every right to be mad, and in my opinion, every right to express that anger and relay his experiences.

It is Franks right to respond, should he choose to spend his time in that manner instead of tracking down deliveries.

It is our collective responsibility, should we choose to accept it, to NOT lust after his blood like a pack of wolves.

As far as banning Prodigy from this or any forum, We will all be poorer because of that.

[Vegas69]

I went through a partial restoration and have purchased most of my parts from Frank so I feel I know him better than most. He was to busy then and I'm sure it's multiplied since. I can honestly say that he always treated me right.

I agree with Bret, he's a wealth of knowledge and consumers take advantage of it. They know they can call him and get the answers they need. He does offer free planning and advice and I'm sure there are days when he wished he didn't.

I know that his move to the bigger shop is all part of his plan to create a more efficient business. There comes a time in every business where customer service suffers from a one trick pony. One man can only do so many things in a day. Things are easily forgotton. Believe me, I've been there and still suffer with it. Once he gets the new shop set up and a new assistant that's focus is customers and orders, things will smooth out and likely be better than ever.

I certainly not trying to say what happened to the poster is right. I'm sure he'll make it right and remember, there are always two sides to every story.

[garickman]

I think Bret and Vegas69 bring up valuable points. However, and this is just me, I would have more respect for a vendor to tells me as a customer "look I am growing faster than anticipated and at this time I can not guarantee you the customer service you are entitled to. Rather than taking your money at this present time, let me point you in the direction of someone who can help you right now. I hope after this move and the growth of my company you will continue to be a loyal and valued customer."

I just think that would be a whole lot more professional as opposed to taking someones money and making them wait months on end because "your just to busy". Just my opinion.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Bryan, I have no voice mails from you, none, and the email below is the last communication we have had. I have seen your threads asking how to measure backspac so I assumed you was handling it yourself, but still have recieved no intructions from you? I guess there was a question for me to answer in reference to factory width I missed. opps. BTW, i do have the specs now from the other car we did for Telly, but have no way of knowing if you guys both have the same rear or not. If you could get that simple question answered from you suspension guy, were ready to build.

As for the parts from the other order, I need to look into it but I can tell you the oil adapter is here somewhere in the pile of parts we are loading on shelves now, BTW, the $150 oil adapter was free be sure to mention that.

As Bret mentioned I am in the shop till midnight everyday right now building the perfect facilty to handle the growth. So if someone calls and DOES NOT leave a message I have no way of knowing. I have no missed voice mails from you in recent weeks I can find.

Some asked in a another thread if I had "fallen into a hole" as I have not been on the board much. For the last couple months I have not been chasing sales. I actually have tried to throttle it back while we get set up in the new place and have a couple people in place to handle orders. Sure we have been taking orders if someone calls in, but we have not been promoting or creating sales until just the last few days as we are about 80% functional now.

I see Modern Museum chimed in, he was the last person I had this issue with Scott refers to. Maybe he can chime in, he has got all he had coming and more as we have handled some issues for him that were not our problem. And no, the thread had nothing to do with why i sent him free stuff he needed we were not responsible for, nor did it make the missing parts we could not get magiacally appear. There were a couple more threads that popped up after our thread people struggling to get the same things he was missing. So no, the "thread" was not what made it happen.

In your case Bryan a email or voice mail would be all you needed to do.

Our last communication, have you have something different please let me know.

From: Bryan Cope <@carbuff.net> (Add as Preferred Sender)

Date: Tue, Apr 19, 2011 12:14 pm
To: [email protected]


Folder From Subject Date Size
Hi Frank,

Still trying to get final information the wheels. I know the fronts are
going to be 18" x 10" with 7.2" of BS, which I think would work with the
centers you have.

On the rears, I'm still trying to determine what I need. I think I'm going
with an 18" x 12" wheel, but the BS is my issue. Do you know what the
factory rear axle widths on the second gen Firebirds is? My axle is going to
measure 61.25". That's going to put the BS somewhere around the 6.5" to 7.5"
range, but I just don't know exactly... Do you have any that you have done
on these cars?

Thanx!
Bryan

[ProdigyCustoms]

I can only chalk it up to them being extremely busy with the move of there shop as I have called several times over the last couple weeks in an attempt to place a parts order and have left voicemail's with no response back. Seems odd after the positive experiences I have had with them in the past.....

If it was a voice mail to place a order it is on a note pad full of custmers wanting to buy stuff. For 2 weeks we were running off laptops while the new server was installed. I could not take a order for a week or so as we switched accounting and invoicing systems also.

As I said we are at about 80% right now I am still in the shop all day but if you get the voiuce mail I can call back.

Hopefully in the next couple weeks the phone will be answered live by a receptionist and someone will be in place to handle NON technical orders. And let me focus on the orders that require tchnical advise and decisions.

[Blake Foster]

I am going to take off my RideTech hat and install my "friend" hat here. It is not my intent to minimize this issue, but to hopefully place some perspective on it.

Frank and Lisa are friends of mine so feel free to color any of my personal comments as you wish.

In my opinion, Frank suffers from the same ailment that mnay of us do...he is a nice guy who finds it hard to say "no". He also suffers from the same time management shortcomings as many of the rest of us. Those 2 traits, coupled with the fact that his business has increased greatly over the last couple of years, have led to the growing pains that he [and now some of his customers], may be experiencing.

In a perfect world we could all buy our parts from a vending machine...stick your money in, get your parts out. [That is, IF you knew what to order?] That is how larger businesses are run and how my accountant would like to see mine run. The reality is, we are talking about humans. Humans who may not be as effecient as a machine or a computer.

However, the same traits of being a nice guy have led Frank to assemble 30 years of valuable car knowledge. This is knowledge that has been earned by reading, talking, listening, and most importantly, being there and doing it.
This is the knowledge that we all crave...offered at no charge by someone who can ignore politically correct influences to make sure our projects have the best chance of success. Vending machines cannot offer this service.

So, does Frank and Lisa being "nice people" excuse their perceived spotty delivery record? [I say perceived because I do not have first hand knowledge of the facts of this specific case]
No, it does not.
BUT...[there's always a but involved, isnt there?] I was at Prodigy last week for a visit. They are currently working 16-18 hours a day moving into a new building that is at least double the size of the old one. This will allow them room to manuver instead of repelling over the stacks of inventory that resided in the old building.
Most importantly, he is in full search for a person to coordinate the ordering and delivery of his products. Although this detail may be taken for granted by civilians, it is a crucial position that requires complete focus...focus that a business owner simply cannot provide. I do speak from experience on this point.

My point: Carbuff has every right to be mad, and in my opinion, every right to express that anger and relay his experiences.

It is Franks right to respond, should he choose to spend his time in that manner instead of tracking down deliveries.

It is our collective responsibility, should we choose to accept it, to NOT lust after his blood like a pack of wolves.

As far as banning Prodigy from this or any forum, We will all be poorer because of that.


I would have to agree.
I would also add that I deal with people on this forum and others on BOTH sides of the purchasing experiance as a vendor and a customer.
let me tell you comming strictly from the "Customer" side and moving to the "Vendor" side........... WOW I think if most Customers actually had to be the Vendor it would change your outlook, I am sure Brett and Chris and any of the other vendors on here would attest to that, and Frank isn't MAKING any parts.

just my .02 worth......... sorry change not given at this machine

[XcYZ]

As far as banning Prodigy from this or any forum, We will all be poorer because of that.

I'm not looking to remove anyone, Bret. I'm looking for resolution. I know there are 3 sides to every story...

[carbuff]

Frank,

If you don't have any voicemails from me, then you have lost 2 on your end. I just went and looked at my AT&T account, I made 1 call from my cell phone, and one from my work line which I am unable to access records for:

DATE TIME CALL TO NUMBER CALLED RATE PERIOD FEATURE MINUTES
04/29 01:58 PM ORLANDO 407-832-1752 DT 2

The email you quoted was the one I sent you before the 2 phone calls. When you didn't reply, I then made my calls.

Regarding this:

BTW, the $150 oil adapter was free be sure to mention that.

That is completely untrue, and I don't appreciate the implication. From Prodigy's original invoice, there was an $88 charge for a Wegner oil cooler adapter. Per conversations between you, me, and Wegner, it became apparent that this was a one-off item that Wegner had built for someone and was not manufacturing. As we discussed that, you stated that you had found the Mocal unit at PRI and that "we need to get your one" if it would work with my oil pan choice. Never was there discussion of giving me the item for free, nor was a price discussed. I inferred that this item would replace the one that I had already paid for, and wasn't receiving. So please don't try to make it sound like I am getting something for nothing here as I most certainly am not.

Somehow it feels as if the finger is being pointed back at me, THE CUSTOMER, for not following through and making phone calls or emails (which I have in fact done) to chase down the parts that I am owed. Please explain to me how that makes any business sense from a vendor's perspective? The fact that I have had to tell you on multiple occasions (yes, I too could quote emails but really don't feel like having to dig through them again...) during this transaction what I am still owed is ludicrous to me! I have well over $15k spent in parts from your company, parts that were paid for in December. Why am I even having to address this at all, publicly or privately? When did it become the customer's job to ensure that the vendor's supply chain was doing its job? I noticed that you didn't even address the actual issue of payment being received and parts still having not shipped, instead deferring to other issues in your reply.

With regards to the other vendors and friends of Frank's who support him, I expected those replies, and I have no problem with them. I have no personal beef with Frank, and honestly I give him credit again for his willingness to help out the PT community by answering questions, and other acts like his help of James & Mary last week. Another part of the reason that I gave him my business was due to his knowledge and the time he spent with me on the phone answering my questions before my purchase. This post wasn't meant as a personal attack, it was simply an effort to inform others in this community about my experiences with a vendor who actively promotes and works to attract business through this venue.

That said, all of the vendors on this site, and any vendor anywhere for that matter, made a choice to go into this business. In making that choice, you have accepted the responsibility for taking (sometimes large) payments from customers and delivery of goods and services in return. If you cannot do so in a timely manner, for whatever the reasons, it's in your best interests to be proactive and communicate the issues with your customers, in the name of promoting good relations. I am MUCH more tolerant of problems and delays if someone I'm dealing with makes an effort to communicate with me (and I say that as someone that has run a business where I was in this situation, dealing with customer issues.). In this case, all communication has been initiated on my end asking where are my parts.

Oh, and I still don't have an explanation as to why I don't have my parts...

[ModernMuseum]

Frank,

Yes, you have made everything right with my order. The OP should not be worried about getting his parts, but the timeliness of order completion is just as, or even more important than receiving the parts themselves. However, the extensive delays incurred with my order will leave me finishing my project in an un-air conditioned garage in the heat of the Houston summer. I'm not stranger to the heat, having worked a few years in the Middle East, but if I had received my parts in a timely manner, my project would be finished right now.

Yes, you have sent me a few parts that you did not charge me for, I’m guessing as a peace offering for my belated order. Either way, thanks for that. I will, however, be sending you some return parts that I do not need. To be honest, I really don’t feel comfortable receiving anything that I didn’t pay for.

Let me paint a picture concerning how users of this forum, and customers of yours in particular, see a Vendor (Prodigy Customs in this case) in this type of situation.

When customers send messages that are not responded to, that makes them irritable and bewildered regarding what is going on with their order. When their messages go some time without a response, yet they see you posting on the forums, soliciting sales, offering advice, etc., irritability transforms into disturbing. If you have time to post on forums (yet are working until midnight?), you should have time to expedite customers’ orders and more importantly, let them know the status of their parts.

In addition, if Prodigy Customs is backed up with orders, is in the process of moving to a new location and has limited communication due to this move, why on Earth would they still be taking orders if they cannot be delivered in a timely manner and maintain throughput? Waiting 6+ months to receive parts that are not specialty in nature is inexcusable. “Extremely busy” is not a reason.” “Moving” is not a reason. The reason why they are not valid excuses is because they were most likely planned events or predictable situations.

A better business move would have been to decline an order than cannot be delivered as promised so your customers can order elsewhere. This way, you would still be on good terms with that particular customer and eligible for future orders. The business strategies that you employ are confounding.

Example: If my boss gave me 5 things to do and increased my workload to the brim, and then he came back later with a 6th and asked if I could deliver this item along with the previous 5 (and there was no way that I could), it would not benefit me to take on the task and tell him that I could deliver. Come time for delivery, if I said that I could complete the task, when in fact I could not, would leave me with my pants down and my tail between my legs. To further worsen the situation, my boss could no longer fully trust that I could deliver when I said that I could, ultimately diminishing my credibility. The better business move would have been to decline the additional work, allowing my boss to distribute my work to someone else with a lighter workload, meeting the schedule and executing the project successfully.

The only situation where “busy” is an excuse is the one where you decline to take on new work. Using “busy” as a reason to not deliver as promised is retroactive and ill-considerate of customers.

Frank – I will say this again. You need to find a way to confirm the logistics of everyone’s parts. If you call and place and order to a sub-vendor, I don’t think you should place 100% trust in them to get the parts to YOUR customer in a timely fashion and maintain the entirety of the order. This is too much risk on your part.

Bryan – the reason you don’t have your parts is most likely because they have not been ordered. In tracking most of my parts that I received from Frank, they arrive with receipts stating order placement dates and shipping dates. The shipping dates are always pretty close to the order dates.

Also, I am speculating that there are more customers just like those that have posted that are still refraining from posting because they think their parts are coming in “next week” or “soon.”

Again, as always, if someone would like to challenge anything that I post, feel free to do so. In most cases, I can provide images scans or screenshots to support my statements.

Bryan – I truly hope you receive your parts soon so you can finish your project and enjoy it.

[Efi69Cam]

I have ordered a few things from Prodigy (PRC rad and DSE subframe being the largest) and have found that they are great to deal with. The one bit of advice that I can offer is that even if you feel that your being a PITA call Frank. He is busy and he does forget things, but the squeeky wheel gets the grease. He will take care of you. I can honestly say that I would not hesitate to order from Prodigy again.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Bryan, i go all the way back to April 18 on my voice mail and call history. i do indeed see you number a few times, but no message.

Regardless, you are correct, it should not be your responsibility to call me about getting your parts, I did not want to infere that. But there were no calls from your area code yesterday or in the last week for that matter. I would have made another call if I had not had contact in the last 3 weeks. The last communication we had everything was cool and yes, I admit I totally forgot about your order and follow up during the move. I wish i could say with everything going on I could wake up every day thinking about everyones order. A email, message, anything would have triggered me and brought you to the top of the list.

As for the Mocal, i should have said a "free upgrade" abut $100 of upgrade from what we oringally talked about.

So in closing I am not putting any blame on you, but a call yesterday, email or message would have been nice.

We are working to fix all of this and making a serious capitol investment and commitment to this. I can't fix what happened yesterday, only what happens tomorrow. Space, inventory, people, are all coming.

And as soon as you make a final decision on your backspace or get me the information I need about the rear, your wheels will be assembled.

In the meantime I am sourcing the missing stuff wherever I can to fil the rest of the order.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank,


Yes, you have sent me a few parts that you did not charge me for, I’m guessing as a peace offering for my belated order. Either way, thanks for that. I will, however, be sending you some return parts that I do not need. To be honest, I really don’t feel comfortable receiving anything that I didn’t pay for.

Let .

Not a peace offering. I contacted you to see how everything was going, see how things was progressing. I wasn not sure if you would tell me to go f__k myself or what. I just was thinking about your project, and wanted to make sure you were doing OK. I also wanted to let you know in spite of your thread I was still available to you. I did not want you to think I closed the door because you called me out. My follow up email was nothing more then making sure everything was going smoothly like I do for 100s of other members.

As for the freebie stuff, you did not ask, but I sent you some stuff that I thought would solve the problem. It was used stuff that would have value if you had to buy it but was stuff that I do not mess around with selling. I did nothing here I have not done for 100s of members. The parts were things I had laying around and I knew you needed them.

At the end of the day, I will still be on the other end of the phone if you need help weather you spend another penny or not, just like the 1000s of hours of free tech I do for other members.

I only brought this up so others will know you got what you had coming and more. I cannot run from our mistakes, but I can resolve them best we can. And have a made a huge investment and commitment to do so.

[onevoice]

I have spent a few days hanging around Prodigy Customs with Frank when my car was being finished up. It is not an excuse, but Franks phone rings constantly, but he is not hard to get. If you have a problem, pick up the phone. I have never had a problem getting through. His phone number is in every post signature.

This kind of post makes people think something shady is happening, when it is in reality just a simple mistake. Frank is a straight up, no BS guy. He has hundreds, if not thousands of satisfied customers, and probably just as many he has given advice to that haven't actually bought anything. I have no problem recommending his shop to anyone, and I would assure you he will make any mistake he has made right.

[Mkelcy]

I have spent a few days hanging around Prodigy Customs with Frank when my car was being finished up. It is not an excuse, but Franks phone rings constantly, but he is not hard to get. If you have a problem, pick up the phone. I have never had a problem getting through. His phone number is in every post signature.

This kind of post makes people think something shady is happening, when it is in reality just a simple mistake. Frank is a straight up, no BS guy. He has hundreds, if not thousands of satisfied customers, and probably just as many he has given advice to that haven't actually bought anything. I have no problem recommending his shop to anyone, and I would assure you he will make any mistake he has made right.

There is no reason to charge a customer's credit card long before a part has been ordered. I can see the need to assure that the credit card has sufficient capacity before actually placing the order, but the time difference between charging the card and placing the order should be days, not months.

I've concluded that the small savings aren't worth the worry.

[jocko124]

I think the biggest mistake vendors make is being too optimistic with delivery times--which I think is the exact opposite of what they should do. I actually ordered a part (without being charged for it) last November. I still don't have the part, but I'm not upset---why? because when i ordered the part, the guy told me it was a long lead time because there's not a big demand for A Body parts. Had he told me it was 3 weeks out 8 times in a row, I'd be very upset right now! :lol:

[jjump59]

I've had both good and bad dealings with Prodigy. Alot of people standing up up for them and I don't feel it's right to only hear about the good ones. Not gonna post all the details but same stuff as other guys that recently posted. Even when I wanted my money back that was a problem. Heard alot of excuses for not returning calls and or emails etc. I don't do business with them any longer. Good luck getting your stuff, hope it all works out for you.

[carbuff]

There is no reason to charge a customer's credit card long before a part has been ordered. I can see the need to assure that the credit card has sufficient capacity before actually placing the order, but the time difference between charging the card and placing the order should be days, not months.

And that quote perfectly summarizes my feelings about this situation and the reason for my original post: to let others know that this can, and does, happen. There is no excuse for these kinds of delays when these vendors, for the most part, are simply having parts drop-shipped from the manufacturers once an order is placed and paid for.

And while I would be best served to just leave well enough alone at this point, I'm too damned stubborn to do so... This completely irked me:

A email, message, anything would have triggered me and brought you to the top of the list.

Oh? So what were the communications that we had in February and March? And the phone call we had in early April when we discussed the wheels? How many more times do I have to bring myself to the "top of your list"?

So in closing I am not putting any blame on you, but a call yesterday, email or message would have been nice.

Perhaps... But being 'nice' isn't the point. You run a business, a business that in no small part utilizes the 'free advertising' that you get by posting in these forums. Yes, I realize you pay to formally advertise as well, but you get a lot of "word of mouth" advertising here too. The point of the original post, as I stated above, was to let other people know about this entire experience and allow future customers to make a more informed decision about where they choose to send their money. My choosing to contact you, yet again, rather than sharing my experience with others, would have served no one but you...

[67zo6Camaro]

Thank god Scott you man'd up. I have been reading similar post and stories and have also witness a similar account from my next door neighbor who has also purchased from Prodigy.

It is amazing how much protection this company has gotten from some of these sites.

It's about time someone lays it on the line as most of us can read between the lines.

Brett

Frank needs to make this right or Prodigy no longer needs to be a part of this community. This is the 3rd time in recent months this exact story has unfolded with Prodigy, months of waiting, charging when parts were never ordered from the manufacturer, no communication (or flat ignored), etc.

Three strikes... Frank needs to make this right (like, Today) or he will no longer be a supporting vendor here.

I feel our community is being taken advantage of without regard of consequences.

[67zo6Camaro]

As far as you "Deffending Vendors" do you think it is acceptable and good business behavior to charge a customers account (months in advance) and pool the money together with others which delays the delivery of the goods?

There is a term used in business and taught in school called "Floating and/or kitting", the buisness practice I'm seeing posted all over these sites reguarding this company are similar to what most regulating authorities would consider unethical.

Has anyone checked complaints posted with the BBB?

I will just say it, and not post any more, I personally will not purchase from this company based on all the information.

Plenty of members will continually give the flip side to this.

Brett

[carbuff]

Frank,

I've been thinking about this more since my last post, and I think it would be in both of our best interests to simply terminate the remainder of our transaction and go our separate ways. I'm pretty riled up after dealing with this all day, and I imagine you are pretty fed up with it too...

So assuming that parts aren't already in transit, how about you refund me for the outstanding items that I'm owed, and we'll both move on with our lives. That would include the transmission kit and shipping charge(minus the bellhousing that I've already received), the oil cooler adapter, and the deposit on the wheels. If the transmission kit has already shipped, then so be it, but we can terminate and refund the other items.

Peace?

[XcYZ]

Frank,

I've been thinking about this more since my last post, and I think it would be in both of our best interests to simply terminate the remainder of our transaction and go our separate ways. I'm pretty riled up after dealing with this all day, and I imagine you are pretty fed up with it too...

So assuming that parts aren't already in transit, how about you refund me for the outstanding items that I'm owed, and we'll both move on with our lives. That would include the transmission kit and shipping charge(minus the bellhousing that I've already received), the oil cooler adapter, and the deposit on the wheels. If the transmission kit has already shipped, then so be it, but we can terminate and refund the other items.

Peace?

I was hoping - and expecting - that this would have been resolved during business hours yesterday.

[ModernMuseum]

Not a peace offering. I contacted you to see how everything was going, see how things was progressing. I wasn not sure if you would tell me to go f__k myself or what.

:rolleyes: Dang, dude. Ok. No need to swear.

http://gonzogeek.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/joe-dirt-4.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

I was hoping - and expecting - that this would have been resolved during business hours yesterday.

I spent the day yesterday trying to solve this problem and it won;t happen in one day. I did not have all the anbswers yesterday so i did not call Bryan. I will talk with Bryan today. If his final answer is he is done, then we will refund him.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Ok, so bottom line is there are parts on BO for the transmission and nothing I can do will make it ship complete today. It is going to take 4 to 5 days to complete it. Bryan and I will talk today and see what he wants to do.

The wheel centers are ready, we just simply need back space on those.

[HEEP]

I think there might need to be a new type of perspective put on this. I have been a customer of Prodigy Customs. My first purchase for my car was through him. Was the purchase 15K, no, but is was around 2k. Was it a smooth trans? Not as smooth as I was expecting, however, in the end, I am a satisfied customer.

Now, the perspective I offer is from someone that purchases parts everyday. I buy things from the major companies; Cummins / Bosch Rexroth type companies to the mom and pop machine shops that produce the everyday build items that most people don't think about.

Frank is a mom and pop company (in my opinion Frank, not a slam) that can do the things that the major companies don't want to do. He also has some great knowledge because he has built many cars over the years. Either he documented things really well, or has a good memory when it comes to building these things.

Mom and Pops don't always have all the business tool or people to take care of all the things for daily business. But they manage most of the time to get them done. For all we know, Frank probably has to clean the toilets there at the shop.

The big companies have alot of the tools for business, but sometimes those tools get in the way to make sure their customer gets what he needs. It seems I can not win in some of these situations.

All companies have problems, from the big to the small. Communication is key, but is not always there. I actually had a vendor tell me this week that I could not visit to try to get answers on ship dates. That did not seem to go well for them. That was fun:lol:

Frank has replied. He seems to have tried to make it right, and I do have respect for him in that. Is he having growing pains? It seems so. I too have noticed he is not on here daily, so I believe him in saying that he is not trying to drum up business,but still taking orders as they come in. Someone stated that he should not be taking orders if he has all these problems. Hello, he still has a business that needs to pay the bills. I have no vendor that would turn away orders, even knowing that they will not provide on time. It's just not the way things are done in my business.

Frank, keep trying, there is no company that can make everyone happy. You'll die trying.

Customer, keep holding the vendors feet to the fire. But unless you are dealing straight with the manufacturer, know that someone like Frank is their customer and they may be giving him the run around also.

I hope some of this makes sense, I know I understand both sides.

HEEP

[bret]

I think there might need to be a new type of perspective put on this. I have been a customer of Prodigy Customs. My first purchase for my car was through him. Was the purchase 15K, no, but is was around 2k. Was it a smooth trans? Not as smooth as I was expecting, however, in the end, I am a satisfied customer.

Now, the perspective I offer is from someone that purchases parts everyday. I buy things from the major companies; Cummins / Bosch Rexroth type companies to the mom and pop machine shops that produce the everyday build items that most people don't think about.

Frank is a mom and pop company (in my opinion Frank, not a slam) that can do the things that the major companies don't want to do. He also has some great knowledge because he has built many cars over the years. Either he documented things really well, or has a good memory when it comes to building these things.

Mom and Pops don't always have all the business tool or people to take care of all the things for daily business. But they manage most of the time to get them done. For all we know, Frank probably has to clean the toilets there at the shop.

The big companies have alot of the tools for business, but sometimes those tools get in the way to make sure their customer gets what he needs. It seems I can not win in some of these situations.

All companies have problems, from the big to the small. Communication is key, but is not always there. I actually had a vendor tell me this week that I could not visit to try to get answers on ship dates. That did not seem to go well for them. That was fun:lol:

Frank has replied. He seems to have tried to make it right, and I do have respect for him in that. Is he having growing pains? It seems so. I too have noticed he is not on here daily, so I believe him in saying that he is not trying to drum up business,but still taking orders as they come in. Someone stated that he should not be taking orders if he has all these problems. Hello, he still has a business that needs to pay the bills. I have no vendor that would turn away orders, even knowing that they will not provide on time. It's just not the way things are done in my business.

Frank, keep trying, there is no company that can make everyone happy. You'll die trying.

Customer, keep holding the vendors feet to the fire. But unless you are dealing straight with the manufacturer, know that someone like Frank is their customer and they may be giving him the run around also.

I hope some of this makes sense, I know I understand both sides.

HEEP

Excellent post...a very accurate and relevant summary of the way things are in the real world.
It doesn't diminish this particular problem at all, but it does clarify that these kinds of problems are not neccessarily unique to this market, vendor or customer.
Professionally, I will add that we have about the same amount of problems with small vendors as large ones...they are just a different color. Fortunately the overall quantity of problems is small. Maybe that's why they stick out like a sore thumb!

[Fluid Power]

I agree with the above post as well. Very well written.

Darren

[Ummgawa]

Am I missing something here? Do.Not.Charge. A. Man. For. Parts. And. Drag. it. Out. for. Months. Period. Tell him you can't and tell him how long until. If it's Twinkies or car parts.

When you hang your shingle out for business and you agree to serve the public with your wares, seems to me any business with a man's money and that man months without it (the cash or the goods) has the right to be pissed. Anything less is doubletalk.

Good luck Frank.

[Richio1]

[QUOTE=Ummgawa;347562]Am I missing something here? Do.Not.Charge. A. Man. For. Parts. And. Drag. it. Out. for. Months. Period. Tell him you can't and tell him how long until. If it's Twinkies or car parts.

When you hang your shingle out for business and you agree to serve the public with your wares, seems to me any business with a man's money and that man months without it (the cash or the goods) has the right to be pissed. Anything less is doubletalk.



X2!!!!!!!!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Jim, that is real simple but it was not a plan to take this long. A lot of the problem with these big orders has been coordinating all the products and trying to get everything to ship around the same time. and coordinating stuff to show when it is convenient for the buyer. You get a part on back order from one of the 20 suppliers, and it throws a wrench into everything. Postpone ordering part of a order so it does not show up too soon, then things get forgotten. 200 other things are happening at once and the ball gets dropped.

I lay NONE of the blame on any supplier. Here is the deal, up till now we have drop shipped 90% of what we sell. But the entire industry is one "doo doo flows down hill" backorder. I deal with the presidents of biggest companies in the business and everyone is complains about back orders. We drop ship almost everything, it is really hard to keep up with what shipped and what did not. Then if you try to time a order and delay ordering a part because you want it all to show up at once, it is easy to forget when your doing EVERYTHING.

A perfect example, today, all the money in the world and red labels cannot make the transmission kit ship complete today. Could this have happened during the last few months, yes it could. Did I totally forget about it, yes I did. Is that excusable, Nope. But it is what it is.

I said it already I cannot do much about yesterday but have made a huge capitol investment in tomorrow.

So here is what we are doing about it.

We bought a 9,500 square foot facility with 1800 sq ft office space. We DID NOT buy the bigger shop to do more car builds, the extra space is for the parts business. The office space is for more people we are hiring just to answer phones and for order / back order follow up and logistics. As we speak we are installing a computer network and invoicing / order program that is much more detailed then our previous program that will automatically do things we do manually now. We are also integrating that new system with our store which up to now is not integrated. We have finished building a large parts area that will house inventory for hard to get items and also inventory support items that go with out kits. There is room to grow with another 4500 sq ft of mezzanine that will come once we settle in and then even more inventory.

It will take a while to get used to for those that are used to Frank answering every call. That will not happen anymore and the cell phone number will be moved to a land line on a rotary with 4 lines. As barraza mentioned, my phone rings off the hook for technical calls. Many of those calls just free advice with no purchase. I love that, I like helping people out and there is no person that can say I have ever suggested they must buy from us for using my services. In fact there are many that can tell stories of me telling them where they can find a better deal then I can offer. So that tech will still be available, I just won't answer every order follow up, telemarketer, call that comes in. I am going to learn to delegate.

Guys, I can't do anymore then I am doing.

[coolwelder62]

As a vendor now and a part buyer also I know how both sides are feeling.As a vendor it is real hard to please everybody all the time.As a parts buyer I also feel when my check clears the bank my parts should ship soon after.But in the real world some times thing's don't alway's happen that way.I have and will again placed large order's w/Frank.My wheel's showed up on time when he said they would,My brakes were Back ordered from the Mfg/but came in soon after.It's not hard to meet deliverly times when you are in control of your product's,but when someone else is doing the handling and shipping some times thing's go arey.I think there are alot more happy customer's w/Frank than there are mad customer's.I like speaking w/ someone I know on the phone.Now I will have to start all over again.We all call Frank because he save's us alot of dough.We don't want to call the mfg. direct because they usually don't give us that smoking good deal.To me it's worth waiting a little longer if I will save a few buck's.If you/anyone else as a part's buyer are unhappy w/Frank there are a ton of other vendor's to call.As a vendor and a part's buyer both just slow down give the vendor a quick call or email the explain your problem's and give some time to call back.Scott M.:thumbsup:

[XcYZ]

What I don't understand is how a person is being charged yet the parts aren't being ordered from the manufacturer that same day... in some cases the order isn't placed with the manufacturer for months.

I guess since I don't understand it, someone needs to explain it to me.

[hifi875]

something shouldn't be paid for until it has shipped. My business doesn't get charged for anything till it is shipped. being a reseller, the dealer should be set up on terms with their supplier, usually net30, so they arent being billed either till the product ships. the dealer gets/dropships the goods, gets paid from customer(credit card)immediately and walla everyone is happy. the dealer then has plenty of time to pay for part and possibly take a early discount if offered.

[coolwelder62]

What I don't understand is how a person is being charged yet the parts aren't being ordered from the manufacturer that same day... in some cases the order isn't placed with the manufacturer for months.

I guess since I don't understand it, someone needs to explain it to me.I agree Scott, if your C.C. is charged then the part's should ship.If the vendor calls and place's an order and is told the part's are backordered or not in stock then the customer should be called and told of the delay.And when part's are ready to ship and only then should the C.C. be charged.

[carbuff]

I agree Scott, if your C.C. is charged then the part's should ship.If the vendor calls and place's an order and is told the part's are backordered or not in stock then the customer should be called and told of the delay.And when part's are ready to ship and only then should the C.C. be charged.

I couldn't agree more, and that was a big motivation for my post, to let people know that this was not happening (at least in my instance). People need to be aware that this happens, and hopefully they can avoid the frustration that I have experienced by having this knowledge. If I have brought some awareness to any potential future buyers with any vendor out there, then hopefully I've helped others in some way.

Any dealings that I have in the future with any vendor will absolutely not be allowed to occur this way if there is anything that I can do to prevent it. I can understand a vendor requesting a deposit in some situations, but payment in full before completed shipment is simply unacceptable.

And to update the status for everyone else, Frank and I discussed the balance of my order today and have decided that he will complete the transmission delivery but we will part ways on the wheels. So someone else can get a great set of Forgelines pretty quickly as they are available for immediate assembly.

[novanutcase]

I've built businesses from the ground up so I understand about the wear all the hats/outrageously busy mode. What I learned from those businesses is that when you are ramping up due to the popularity of your business ALWAYS leave the apparatus you originally had in place until you are confident that the new one will be able to seamlessly integrate and enhance the one you already have. Otherwise, this is the mess that you will have on your hands!

In my business, for me to tell my customer "I forgot" or "I'm really busy doing X" would be suicide. They don't care and, in all honesty, they have every right to not care. They have enough going on in their own businesses without having to do the job they've contracted me to do. That's why they pay me.

I, like Frank, spend countless hours on the phone with people who I will never make a dime on but, in retrospect, have seen the ripple effect it has as word of mouth from the "Freeloader" get's to someone else that has cash in hand and is ready to spend so, really, those hours did yield me business and that is why I continue to do it so to say that those hours are there to serve the community and you don't make a dime off of it is not entirely true.

I'm sure Frank's intention has been honorable and he would like nothing better than to be able to resolve this matter but at the end of the day it's business so good intentions or not it's just bad business to do what has been posted by the OP. Charging the credit card and then not ordering just makes things more suspect. None of that issue can be attributed to "too busy" or "not enough people". You obviously had enough time to run the card!!

Like I've said before, the customers job is to write the check and make sure it clears. That's it. The vendors job is to deliver on what he promises regardless of his supply chain issues. It's the vendors job to stay on top of his vendors to make sure they are doing what they are supposed to do not the customer. His job ended when his check/credit card cleared.

John

[camcojb]

there is something that seems to be getting skimmed over. It's not just that orders are being charged immediately even though they may be back ordered from the manufacturer. And it's not that he's holding some orders after being paid for to try to synch up the deliveries. What is also happening is that on some orders, even for single items like a set of wheels, the money may be taken immediately and the order may not go in for months. Literally.

In defense of Frank he has always delivered at some point. To my knowledge nobody has been ripped off. But it's a major red flag when someone uses your money for some other reason than placing your order with the manufacturer.

It pains me immensely to post this, but I feel a major obligation to our members to get the info out there. He did this exact thing to a very good friend of mine recently on a set of wheels, and it was a real eye-opener for me. :(

[DRJDVM's '69]

Bottomline for me..... don't charge me for parts that arent ready to ship right now. Small deposit to reserve my spot in line for the order....no problem. But unless my parts are ready to go, I shouldnt be expected to pay the full price. Chances are that I put the order on a CC, and I pay off my CC every month....so I may have paid that $$ out of my pocket weeks or months ago, but dont see the actual part for months??? Not cool....

I just dealt with this when i ordered a hood for my Cuda (not from Frank)..... was told 6-8 week lead time....no big deal. Was told they would contact me when it was close to being done and then they would verify and charge my CC at that time....no problem. Get a call 3 months later... they act like my hood is next...charge my CC..... another couple of weeks go by....no hood..... contact them and am assured my hood will be done soon. Another couple of weeks...same deal. So basically the hood finally ships almost 6 months after my original order and my CC was charged over 2 months before the hood was actually done and shipped. In the meantime I paid the bill on my CC 2 months ago.

I've ordered stuff from Frank and its gone okay....not great, but the parts arrived as promised, maybe alittle later than promised, but overall I have no major complaints.

[ErikLS2]

First of all I really admire the way everyone has maintained an adult attitude about this issue and I appreciate the Admins. handling of the topic. It's a functional discussion and not cut off with "Oh no, no slamming vendors in here...."

Reading through this and other threads like it always reminds me of a couple mantras that get pounded into my head regularly at work.

"If we don't take care of the customer somebody else will."

"The customer is always right". <-- This one is especially tough for me quite often but it seems to always be the attitude that corrects a sticky situation.

[fleetus macmullitz]

First of all I really admire the way everyone has maintained an adult attitude about this issue and I appreciate the Admins. handling of the topic. It's a functional discussion and not cut off with "Oh no, no slamming vendors in here...."



Very well said. :thumbsup:

[Yenko LS]

First post,so hi to all. I starting dealing with Frank a few years ago. I was on vac. in Florida and looked him up. He took me for lunch and treated me like a old friend...price of the whole deal i bought a DSE wiper motor kit?Cost to his sales ,3 hours at lunch taking no calls.Phone rang every 45 seconds,most calls free advice Point i am making orders have been lost,misplaced ,whatever,BUT if We as a bunch of car nuts are going to talk to Frank and want answers and tech stuff,how much free time does he have?? I work in a large jobber store 14 parts guys 600 invoices a day,i missplace a order a day. We take 4500 phone calls a day,multiple suppliers,shippers..so i feel the pain. We as a company charge the customer the second we get a order..reason if we didnt how many parts would we be stuck with if we didnt? I change my mind every other second,i think we are all like that. Frank you are a asset to the sport.. great day to all Wes

[ProTouring442]

there is something that seems to be getting skimmed over. It's not just that orders are being charged immediately even though they may be back ordered from the manufacturer. And it's not that he's holding some orders after being paid for to try to synch up the deliveries. What is also happening is that on some orders, even for single items like a set of wheels, the money may be taken immediately and the order may not go in for months. Literally.

In defense of Frank he has always delivered at some point. To my knowledge nobody has been ripped off. But it's a major red flag when someone uses your money for some other reason than placing your order with the manufacturer.

It pains me immensely to post this, but I feel a major obligation to our members to get the info out there. He did this exact thing to a very good friend of mine recently on a set of wheels, and it was a real eye-opener for me. :(

"Problems happen, delays happen, incorrect parts and products and defective parts and products happen...

Poor customer service does not "happen," it is created." -Bill Kistner

When a company, any company, gives poor service, it is, in a way, ripping off its customers. Excepting for a few people who actually enjoy Wall Mart style shopping, customers want to be served. They want to know that their money, their hard work, is respected, and when that respect is lost, they are cheated... and they'll let everyone know about it.

It is unfortunate, but "word of mouth" advertising is probably one of the least utilized yet most powerful types of advertising out there. It saddens me to read of instances like this because I know from experience that most vendors really care about their customers, they just don't know how to really "do" customer service right. Why do you think I started a business helping small companies with their customer service! Most of the people I work with aren't "business men," they're doers; they're mechanics, body men, cooks, accountants, etc, and they're great at those things, but they need to learn how to do the other "stuff" and stay in business at the same time... that's tough to do.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[Ummgawa]

First post,so hi to all. I starting dealing with Frank a few years ago. I was on vac. in Florida and looked him up. He took me for lunch and treated me like a old friend...price of the whole deal i bought a DSE wiper motor kit?Cost to his sales ,3 hours at lunch taking no calls.Phone rang every 45 seconds,most calls free advice Point i am making orders have been lost,misplaced ,whatever,BUT if We as a bunch of car nuts are going to talk to Frank and want answers and tech stuff,how much free time does he have?? I work in a large jobber store 14 parts guys 600 invoices a day,i missplace a order a day. We take 4500 phone calls a day,multiple suppliers,shippers..so i feel the pain. We as a company charge the customer the second we get a order..reason if we didnt how many parts would we be stuck with if we didnt? I change my mind every other second,i think we are all like that. Frank you are a asset to the sport.. great day to all Wes

Yenko, first off, welcome to the best site on the net, period. Your first post is in defense of Frank and that's fine. What is happening is a legitimate concern for all here. Frank is a good guy, but when money is tossed in the mix everything changes. The main concern is this: parts paid for and not ordered, period. You are making excuses for Frank and Prodigy's repeated patterns of billing and not ordering, and it is repeated, and thus is not excusable. If his business is indeed doing as well as he sez, then he needs to hire a few logistics people to solve his logistics problems. Shipping? Hire someone. Outside calls for free advice on your project? Field as many as possible and hire a back up when he's "at lunch".

The man handing his hard earned scratch over to any vendor, regardless of who it is, HAS FULL-FILLED HIS END OF THE DEAL!

Excuses from Frank, you, President Obama, are just that...excuses! I will confess that the issues I have read here have prevented me from ordering from him. It sounds like my concerns are well grounded.

[ProdigyCustoms]

So on this deal when we Bryan's orders were placed we knew stuff would be back ordered and did not charge until we THOUGHT we would be able to get parts. At the time Bryan ordered his transmission I told him they were on back order everywhere so we did not charge yet. In the meantime I put request (not orders) into 3 distributors I use as know one had a firm date as to when they would receive them and I was going to order with whomever got them first. Whenever we did charge it was because we got a indication the trans would be coming in very soon, however it did not. In fact during this same time period Modern Museum decide to accept a wide ratio box as the close ratio simply was not coming in. All the while I had not placed " orders" with all 3 vendors or I could have wound up with 3 of each for each customer. So I out is a request for 3 units for Prodigy Customs, no customer name attached. There was some courtesy copy emails informing all 3 customers of delays and expected times of delivery.

When transmissions did come in to the distributors there was confusion with Lisa and I over who was handling what order. We ran no sales, no promotions, nothing this past Christmas season December, January and February were HUGE sales months, up 50% over the previous year, and Lisa and I were past our limit of what we could handle quite bluntly. I have not thrown any blame on Lisa, but realistically she has a much lower pain tolerance than I do and as things get super busy I have to take the lions share of the load. That is not saying anything negative, some people can handle more then others.

In the meantime Bryan however was politely quite, which is appreciated, but unfortunately as someone mentioned, the squeaky wheels gets the grease and I got so busy, if I thought about it for a second, the phone would ring. I kinda needed reminders weather it should be that way or not

When the transmissions came in to various distributors. I thought Lisa handled Bryan, she thought I handled it, no one handled it. How can this happen, we was handling litterly 100s of orders.

So the decision was made we had to step up, move into a larger facility to handle all this, or lose it all. So we moved which is all consuming in it self when you move from someplace you have been 22 years. So knowing I was moving I ran zero sales, pulled back on forum activity replying to people asking where to get this and that, to soften sales. I often refereed to competitors if I was in a position i could write a invoice.

So bottom line, the transmission parts were not available for a long period of time, and when they were my head was somewhere else and I forgot which as nutcase said is terrible to say, but it is what it is.

As for charging up front. 90% of the vendors we use charge up front (we run zero open accounts), so we charge up front. It takes 3 days for funds to post to a account by credit card, we have reminders to order, sometimes they get dropped Sometimes you can be ready to place a order, the phone rings, someone wants to talk about their project, someone needs you in the shop, you have lunch and forget. The new system will not allow that. It will hound us with reminders. having someone that is not taking tech calls that is only doing POs, will make that much less likely also.

BTW, FWIW, this goes the other way also. I got a call from Australia today reminding I need to charge for a A/C kit that is on the way. he needed it ASAP, I was on the road when he called, so I got the order going driving down the street. I simply have not wrote the invoice yet. A item shipped yesterday and I have not even charged for it yet. He is a good customer, I trust him. I will get to it. just need to get his card number.

Bottom line this is not a grab and go deal. It is not a cash flow issue as some have eluded too. It is simply too much too fast and as I said I am doing everything I can do to fix it. FWIW, the company is 100% debt free. Accept for a very short term mortgage on the building, if you see me with it, we own it. Includes all equiptment, inventory, cars, everything. No floor planners, investors, lines of credit.

I just thought I would throw that out there for the speculators that think it is something it is not.

I cannot lay it out any clearer or accept more responsibility. And I cannot do anything more then i am doing to fix it.

[XcYZ]

First post,so hi to all. I starting dealing with Frank a few years ago. I was on vac. in Florida and looked him up. He took me for lunch and treated me like a old friend...price of the whole deal i bought a DSE wiper motor kit?Cost to his sales ,3 hours at lunch taking no calls.Phone rang every 45 seconds,most calls free advice Point i am making orders have been lost,misplaced ,whatever,BUT if We as a bunch of car nuts are going to talk to Frank and want answers and tech stuff,how much free time does he have?? I work in a large jobber store 14 parts guys 600 invoices a day,i missplace a order a day. We take 4500 phone calls a day,multiple suppliers,shippers..so i feel the pain. We as a company charge the customer the second we get a order..reason if we didnt how many parts would we be stuck with if we didnt? I change my mind every other second,i think we are all like that. Frank you are a asset to the sport.. great day to all Wes

Welcome aboard, Wes.



The contention here isn't about how many phone calls that Prodigy Customs receives. This problem is about people being charged for parts/items that are ordered months after the order is placed and payment is made.

The sheer volume of PM's, e-mails, and phone calls that I've received over the past 48 hours from people that are or have been in this same situation with Frank is shocking. I've also taken phone calls from several manufacturers that tell me how they get phone calls from irate customers demanding to know why X part has been backordered for months - when in reality they have the part in stock and ready to drop ship. The excuse was produced by Frank to cover the issue of it never being ordered in the first place.

Now, while Bryan has his ordered problems figured out and both parties have parted ways, there are several more people with this same problem RIGHT NOW that do not feel comfortable placing their issue out here in the wide open for public consumption. But they are out there, reading this thread, wondering if they will ever get their stuff.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Welcome aboard, Wes.



Now, while Bryan has his ordered problems figured out and both parties have parted ways, there are several more people with this same problem RIGHT NOW that do not feel comfortable placing their issue out here in the wide open for public consumption. But they are out there, reading this thread, wondering if they will ever get their stuff.

Scott, I have not recieved one phone call, email, PM from anyone in this position since this thread has started. I actually expected everyone in the world to call that has been waiting more then 5 minutes but it has not been that way at all. Sure we have orders open Please forward me anyone PMing you, I will be happy to address. They should have no problem contacting me.

[XcYZ]

Frank, you know exactly what is going on with what customers. You think I'm making this up?

[ModernMuseum]

Scott, I have not recieved one phone call, email, PM from anyone in this position since this thread has started. I actually expected everyone in the world to call that has been waiting more then 5 minutes but it has not been that way at all. Sure we have orders open Please forward me anyone PMing you, I will be happy to address. They should have no problem contacting me.

Frank,

You should not be expecting any calls. If an order has been placed and delays are incurred, you should be the one contact them. Customers should not have to be expediters. Once an order is placed, the vendor should be responsible for for updating customers with logistical issues and expediting their execution.

Thanks to the mods for stepping in to resolve this issue. I hope everyone gets their parts in a timely fashion.

I'll be in touch in a week or so concerning my drive shaft, the last piece of my order.

:lateral:

[RBR]

I've been following this post for two days. I feel like I've gone through some bumps in the road on my build. I've had my fair share of losses. I had some really cool stuff happen too.
I can't say enough how much I've learned just from Lateral g. It is great that the people that run Lateral g., the business and customer have said what they have to say and are informing all of us.:thumbsup: I hope in the end the customer ends up with a cool car!!!:cheers:

[Stuart Adams]

I hope all realizes that this is not an isolated event. We have been trying to figure a way of handling this issue for a year or longer. Glad it finally is getting discussed.

[Ummgawa]

I am going to side with the hard working man that has paid his bills and little by little saved his money and dreamed about having a modern kick ass ride, and is having to wait and is maybe afraid to "rock the boat" in fear of never getting his parts or being shoved to the bottom of the list as far as delivery is concerned. Even if it perception, it's bad for us all, because in his case, perception equals reality. Someone needs to get out of his pajamas and get to work.

Something just isn't adding up here. One plus one does still equal two doesn't it?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank, you know exactly what is going on with what customers. You think I'm making this up?

No Scott, I do not think you are making this up. I know plenty of people have gone through this, I have acknowledged that over and over again and have made it clear why we are doing what were doing to fix it.

No it is not the customers job to call, however if somone is worried they will never get their stuff they should call. I have not heard from anyone or aware of anyone that is hung out on a order that is not in direct comunication and updated. I am working over 200 orders right now some 15 minutes old, some a few months old, so no I cannot possibly know who has contacted you. As I know right now everyone is cool and knows what their situation is. There is not a single customer that has not got what they ordered. In fact my oldest invoice right now is for a very custom motor, and he has a ton of money in it and we talk regularly. He just called and is talking about ordering more stuff. Expensive custom stuff.

So, here is the deal, if there is ANYONE worried about getting their stuff or wants a order update, pease call me.

As for manufacturers getting calls, I can think of one manufacturer last week that got a call and we had not got the order in last week and it was a case of a emailed PO going to a ghost.

Our new system will have someone following up with a phone call after every PO is sent making sure it was gotten, And the new system will remind us if a PO has not been sent.

Again, I am doing everything I can to fix it.

[Stuart Adams]

The number one thing that needs to be fixed is charging CC's then ordering parts at a much later date. That is a no no.
We need to protect the members from potentail issues from the vendors that are endorsed here. Bottom line.
People will understand delay in getting stuff, but when the vendor has the money already and the parts are not ordered immediately, that is not flying here.

[Ummgawa]

The number one thing that needs to be fixed is charging CC's then ordering parts at a much later date. That is a no no.
We need to protect the members from potentail issues from the vendors that are endorsed here. Bottom line.
People will understand delay in getting stuff, but when the vendor has the money already and the parts are not ordered immediately, that is not flying here.

...anything less is just a Ponzi Scheme, plain and simple. Perception equals reality and the perception is that members cards are getting charged some big numbers and having to pay interest on those charges while they wait for parts. The reality is, members are getting charged for their parts, and having to wait months with no communication from the man they gave their hard-earned, let me say again, hard earned money to without the items they were promised. Seems to me their needs to be a conversation something like this:

"OK, here's the deal, I'm going to charge your credit card in a crappy economy for the full price of your order and you'll probably not see the parts for two to six months, but I'll be sure to wait for YOU to call me about your order because it is after all, your money. But please wait until you are good and pissed off before you call, so I'll have my excuses about other peoples stuff, stuff that is obviously more important than yours, ready. I'll lament about how great I have done for everyone else but you and how rare this is and I'm moving and Vendors suck and people lie and I'm always right. Oh and by the way, you may even have to post it on a major Board like Lateral-G.net to get me moving. If you agree to those terms, we can do business"

That is what all your posts are telling me Frank. There are just too many people upset about this to be a rare occasion. You have got to stop charging folks for stuff you know you are not about to order and may not for months, period, end of story.

The customer is always right, man, he's the reason you eat and have car's and shop's and vacations and everything else. You need to wrap your brain around that.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Jim, your fired up. You say I need to wrap my brain around this? I am, I have been doing everything I can to prevent this. I am not running from any of this. The wild assumptions are just that. It is not a ponzi scheme, it is horrible overstressed disorganization, plain and simple. Under no circumstances is someone charged and it expected to go down like Carbuff. I even did not charge on Carbuffs order until I thought we had stuff coming because I knew stuf was out a while. He ackowledged that.

Now, there are situations where someone is charged knowing they are going to wait, like on our engine deals. I buy them in batches of 5 and do them group purchase style and turn them for a few hundred markup. Those people know they are waiting and we are using their money to buy them with so we can run a low profit margin with no investment. And it may take 2 to 4 weeks to get a group together and 3 to 4 weeks to get the 5 motors. Also there are specials I run were I make a commitment to take say 10 of a product to get a deeper discount I can pass to my customer, and we gather cash and order 10, gp style. But those people know they will wait.

Then there are things that simply require full payment before the manufacturer will start, no matter who places the order. Those people know they are going to wait.

But you are correct, the buyer should be aware of this situation from the get go, and I acccept full responsibility when that has happened.

[ProdigyCustoms]

And Jim, there is another side to this coin. There is the side when you only take a deposit, the parts are ready, manufacturer charges us for the full cost, and the customer becomes invisible when it is time to collect the balance. And you can wipe you butt with a CC autorization, that is about useless. How do you think I end up with so many "deals". Because someone could not pick them up.

I have a motor ready, been ready a few days, but I have not heard back from my buyer. He only owes a couple grand more but today I am upside down on the deal a good $1500. I have 2 sets of wheels ready and the buyers are not around. Maybe on summer vacation, but I am upside down $3500 in the meantime.

I am not trying to cry the blues, but there is a lot to all this.

[Ummgawa]

Frank, I can assure you, I am not fired up. You have a lot of upset folks you owe either money or parts to and they are not happy. Why? Because you charged them for the parts and haven't delivered in a timely fashion, that is the recurring theme here. You are compounding the problem by saying the person (your customer) is responsible for making sure they get the stuff they paid you to get for them. If you are doing the volume of business you say you are doing, then you know the bad vendors and know their build times and it is your responsibility to steer them away or give them warning.

As for the other problems you are experiencing, I cannot address, but the ones that have chimed in, sounds to me like they paid in full.

[Mkelcy]

Frank: No one else I've dealt with charges me for parts until they are shipped. No one. The issue that keeps falling off your radar is charging the customer's credit card when the order is taken, rather than when - and as - the order is filled.

For myself, I don't care how much you do to straighten out the ordering process; if it continues to be your practice to charge when the customer places the order, rather than when the parts have shipped, I'll take my business elsewhere. There is simply no reason for me to help finance your business by providing the float between when I place my order and when you have to pay the manufacturer for my parts.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank, I can assure you, I am not fired up. You have a lot of upset folks you owe either money or parts to and they are not happy. Why? Because you charged them for the parts and haven't delivered in a timely fashion, that is the recurring theme here. You are compounding the problem by saying the person (your customer) is responsible for making sure they get the stuff they paid you to get for them. If you are doing the volume of business you say you are doing, then you know the bad vendors and know their build times and it is your responsibility to steer them away or give them warning.

As for the other problems you are experiencing, I cannot address, but the ones that have chimed in, sounds to me like they paid in full.



Jim, I do not owe anyone money. I have refund I sent this week because a customer went in a different direction with his fuel pump. Those kind of statements stick and are not true.

And the people I owe parts if they are mad I have not heard it in my conversations.

As for making them responsible, I have said it at least 10 times the customer shoulkd not have to call, can't say that enough. In the same sentence when I am running arund with my hair on fire a reminder helps. As I said a dozen times, I have cooled the sales so i can finish the build out, and get this going.

And I will say it again, if there are a LOT of people upset I owe parts to, tell the mods, but PLEASE call me

And if I owe someone money, I really need to know about this.

[Yenko LS]

Just a thought..thinking out-loud. How is a guy to run a company with little margins,give service and beat other prices. We have all tried to price things direct,usually 30 points higher and have to pay shippng. Credit card companies usually take 2-4%. This problem with Frank will be fixed im sure,but as far as big ticket items,i think it will stay take time.You guys are amazing how civilized u keep ur chats. GREAT JOB. Wes

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank: No one else I've dealt with charges me for parts until they are shipped. No one. The issue that keeps falling off your radar is charging the customer's credit card when the order is taken, rather than when - and as - the order is filled.

For myself, I don't care how much you do to straighten out the ordering process; if it continues to be your practice to charge when the customer places the order, rather than when the parts have shipped, I'll take my business elsewhere. There is simply no reason for me to help finance your business by providing the float between when I place my order and when you have to pay the manufacturer for my parts.

Really? I started listing company names then realized this is the wrong thread for that. I should not list names, but I promise that more then 50% of the companies we deal with will not take your order without payment, even if it is a 4 to 6 week build item. Order a subframe? A Chassis, A motor? Order a set of wheels from anyone? Your paying 50% to 100% up front.

90% of the product we buy is charged at the order, not the delivery. SOME companies as of late that have got into back orders situations have started charging when products ship. But that is a problem for us also as we have zero warning and usually get a UPS notice it is gone, and if we have not collected, to bad, to sad.

Truly, our answer to a lot of this will be inventory on hard to get items and we plan to load the shelves with this kind of stuff, tomorrow, not yesterday! This business has simply out grown drop ship statues

[Fluid Power]

FWIW, everybody's beloved DSE charged my CC for the full amount of my Vintage Air front runner. Took about a month and a half to get it. This was several years ago but it did happen.
Darren

[Mkelcy]

Really? I started listing company names then realized this is the wrong thread for that. I should not list names, but I promise that more then 50% of the companies we deal with will not take your order without payment, even if it is a 4 to 6 week build item. Order a subframe? A Chassis, A motor? Order a set of wheels from anyone? Your paying 50% to 100% up front.

90% of the product we buy is charged at the order, not the delivery. SOME companies as of late that have got into back orders situations have started charging when products ship. But that is a problem for us also as we have zero warning and usually get a UPS notice it is gone, and if we have not collected, to bad, to sad.

Truly, our answer to a lot of this will be inventory on hard to get items and we plan to load the shelves with this kind of stuff, tomorrow, not yesterday! This business has simply out grown drop ship statues

I expected this response, but not everything is a custom ordered part and the most troubling complaints are that customers are charged for parts which are then not ordered for weeks or months. For my part, when someone has thousands of dollars from me, I'd like them to act as if it's also important to them and to follow up on their commitment.

Your response appears to be that Prodigy will continue to charge customers when orders are taken, regardless when the order is placed with the manufacturer, when Prodigy has to pay for the part, or when the part is shipped.

I guess that model is working for you so far, and my cars are mostly built and equipped, so the loss of my small amount of business won't hurt Prodigy.

Good luck.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Mike, Almost everything we sell is a order part from the manufacturer and that is why we are going to inventory that stuff as we grow.

Wilwood brakes, Baer brakes, AME subframe, DSE subframes are not on the shelf right now, Vintage Air, Chassis works suspension, 2 to 4 weeks right now are all order itlems with options and secifications and take 2 day to 2 months! And out of the ones I listed all but (2) charge instantly.

And when we can avoid charging knowing we have a back order, like with Carbuffs order, we will postpone charging until we have a idea when stuff will come in. That T56 Magnum close ratio back order was nasty, no one knew for sure when they were coming in. I have 3 distributors and all 3 were guessing at when they might see one.

[Stuart Adams]

FWIW, everybody's beloved DSE charged my CC for the full amount of my Vintage Air front runner. Took about a month and a half to get it. This was several years ago but it did happen.
Darren

Was the order placed close to the date of payment is the issue. Delay like I stated happens. But people paying and the order not place for months don't fly.

[realcoray]

FWIW, everybody's beloved DSE charged my CC for the full amount of my Vintage Air front runner. Took about a month and a half to get it. This was several years ago but it did happen.
Darren

The difference is not in backorders, it's about a company charging the customer before that company has placed the corresponding order with the vendor. If any random company had charged you immediately and then placed the order 5 weeks later it would be treated the same as this situation.

Worse still would be if you had to call 5 times before you pushed the company to order the product you had already paid them for.

[Stuart Adams]

Bottom line guys is we have had multiple members , including friends of the moderators being charged for parts and been told it's on backorder or whatever. Then the customer calls the manufacturer directly to find out it's in stock or it takes two weeks to get. Mind you it's already been 3 months. That is the issue.

Talking about how long, backorders , etc if fine and dandy. It happens in all line os work. It's the issue of payment and order date.

Vendors might want payment now, half payment that's great. Just order the dang parts when the payment is made!!

[Sparks67]

Frank: No one else I've dealt with charges me for parts until they are shipped. No one. The issue that keeps falling off your radar is charging the customer's credit card when the order is taken, rather than when - and as - the order is filled.

Actually, you are incorrect about this statement. I had several vendors charge me in full, the day that I ordered the part. I can list them if you want, and you be shocked on how many charge the day you order the item. Then you start the waiting game. I have ordered from Frank before and it took about 3 months to get my parts. I just kept pinging him either email or phone. I do that with all vendors and I always got my parts. Typically, a subframe, wheels, etc is 50% up front. Although, some now are going to making you pay in full, and you wait 2 months before they ship your part.



Truly, our answer to a lot of this will be inventory on hard to get items and we plan to load the shelves with this kind of stuff, tomorrow, not yesterday! This business has simply out grown drop ship statues

Frank, this will work. Although, you have to figure out on how many items of inventory to stock. Majority of the manufacturers are using Just-in-time, but it is really hard on the suppliers that stock the part. The problem is that inventory on hand costs you money at the end of the year.

Jeff

[Ummgawa]

Jim, I do not owe anyone money. I have refund I sent this week because a customer went in a different direction with his fuel pump. Those kind of statements stick and are not true.

And the people I owe parts if they are mad I have not heard it in my conversations.

As for making them responsible, I have said it at least 10 times the customer shoulkd not have to call, can't say that enough. In the same sentence when I am running arund with my hair on fire a reminder helps. As I said a dozen times, I have cooled the sales so i can finish the build out, and get this going.

And I will say it again, if there are a LOT of people upset I owe parts to, tell the mods, but PLEASE call me

And if I owe someone money, I really need to know about this.

Frank, If you have charged a credit card for parts and have not delivered, then you have the guys money. If you have his parts, and you haven't shipped you still have his money. If you charge a guys card and wait months to order, you still have the guys money. If you charge a guys card and make excuses about why you haven't ordered, you forgot, you are growing, you are sleepy, you are on vacation, you stay at home all day and watch soap operas, you still have the guys money and you owe it to him in the form of either his parts or his money back. Again, when the customer gives you his hard earned scratch, it it fully your responsibility to make every thing right from that point forward.

The only thing "sticking" here is what you, not me or anyone else on this board that has commented in either direction, just you, are being perceived as right now. One last time, if you charge for parts and don't deliver for months, you have the guys money. When he has the parts you are square. Period. You simply refuse to hear those simple words. If you charge for it and it isn't delivered, you are in the wrong and you have to expeditiously make it right.

I'm not trying to re invent the wheel here. You have some serious issues to address. The first is what the difference between perception and reality is. I wish you well.

[Stuart Adams]

Jeff, charging the cc at order time is fine and dandy if the customer is informed. The problem we are experiencing form members is the parts are not ordered until way later. And given the runaround until the customer plays detective and finds out and informs us because we allow that business to be represented here.

Bottom line guys.

[Fluid Power]

Jeff, charging the cc at order time is fine and dandy if the customer is informed. The problem we are experiencing form members is the parts are not ordered until way later. And given the runaround until the customer plays detective and finds out and informs us because we allow that business to be represented here.

Bottom line guys.

I agree with this.

From Frank's perspective, if his customer calls to place an order for wheels, custom everything, 4-6 weeks delivery, he HAS to charge the customers card, even if the wheel mfg does not charge him at the time of order. If the customer has no skin in the game, that person can bulk when he needs to sack up. As long as the customer knows, it is a fair practice for custom parts.

In this case, it appears the customer places an order, card is charged, and no product ordered from the other end. Completely different issue.

Darren

[Mkelcy]

Frank: No one else I've dealt with charges me for parts until they are shipped. No one. The issue that keeps falling off your radar is charging the customer's credit card when the order is taken, rather than when - and as - the order is filled.


Actually, you are incorrect about this statement.

Ah, no, I'm not wrong about MY experience. You may have had a different experience, but that would be your experience, not mine.

[Blake Foster]

This subject of charging CC has come up in the past. I would like to address it out side of the context of the issue being discussed here. I say that because I think it is importand for everyone to understand how the system should/must work inorder for everyone to be happy.
When you call to order parts from a vendor and supply your CC# you are agreeing to have your card charged for the amount agreed upon at the time of order. be it for a spark plug or custom one off wheels. Now before you hit "reply to " and start ripping me a new one, IMHO here is where it gets tricky.
IF the vendor is also the manufacturer........ then i think the parts should NOT be charged for untill they are about to deliver. I say "about" because if I run your card and it is declined, for any number of reasons then I am not going to ship the parts. The other senerio is this, if you order 5 parts and one is B/O then I am going to call and see if you want the 4 and I am going to charge your card for the parts and ship them when the card is approved.

IF the vendor is NOT the manufacturer here is where it gets tricky.
Mr. Customer orders 3 parts a,b,c, all need to come from different manufacturers, at what point does the Vendor charge the customer.
When Mr Customer orders the parts or when the manufacturer ships? I think the customer needs to pay at time of order???
take Wheels, ALL manufacturers (that we deal with) are 100% prepaid prior to building. so that means everyone pays upfront customer and Vendor and waits 4-6 weeks. no biggie it is industry standard.
The Vendor MUST keep his risk to a mimimum especially these days with CC Fraud as rampent as it is, and that still does not protect against charge backs. now who's problem is that??

I am not trying to defend anyone......... I just think that if this forum is here to help and inform as it does very well than this is a topic that should be talked about. prior to there being a problem.
I think if you ordered from AMAZON OR god forbid EBAY(who by the way does not give advise or answer their cell phone) you click "Buy Now" enter your CC# and hold your breath.
but that seems to be ok??
Obviously there is a REASONABLE amount of time to wait, and that time varies depending on the product, a custom built twin turbo motor should take longer to deliver than a master cylinder.
I think everyone customers and vendors need to communicate what the expectations are.

just my thoughts

[Sparks67]

Jeff, charging the cc at order time is fine and dandy if the customer is informed. The problem we are experiencing form members is the parts are not ordered until way later. And given the runaround until the customer plays detective and finds out and informs us because we allow that business to be represented here.

Bottom line guys.

Stuart,

I was never informed that it was going to be charged in full, the next day. I went through the same thing with Frank, back in February 2009 when I bought some parts. Well, I contacted Hector at Rick's, and he informed me that the part was never ordered. Then I had to go back to Frank, and actually found out that the fuel tank was in the custom shop. Although, I never asked Hector when it was ordered. I had several emails, and phone calls to Frank. It was a bit annoying, but basically you call them enough.. They get annoyed, and you get your parts. The CC though was charged back in February in full, but I didn't get the parts until late May. You shouldn't charge the CC unless you have that product on hand. Most industries that do custom work, like construction for example. They base it on 50% down for material and then 50% at when the construction job is finished. Although, I do prefer this contractor that I hired to pour a concrete driveway. He gave me a price, and completed the job. So, I had to hunt him down to pay him.

Jeff

[ProTouring442]

And I will say it again, if there are a LOT of people upset I owe parts to, tell the mods, but PLEASE call me.

And if I owe someone money, I really need to know about this.

I have no skin in this game, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I do know a thing or two concerning customer service...

If there is a delay on your end, it is not up to the customer to call you, it is up to you to call the customer.

You have their money or their order. You are the CSR (customer service rep) and a customer rightfully expects his CSR to keep him aware of what is going on with his order.

You keep giving all sorts of reasons, etc, but those are about you. This conversation is not about you, it is about your customer. Keep all you replies about your customer, and you will become the hero of the conversation. Keep them all about you, and you will continue to loose ground.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

[camcojb]

Frank, I understand the idea of charging a guys card up front for a custom set of wheels, an engine, etc. As long as the guy knows this up front with an estimated time of arrival that's fine. And I also understand that if the engine builder or wheel company doesn't deliver on that schedule that it isn't your fault, but you need a system in place to stay on top of it so the customer is informed of any changes to the estimated delivery date of his items. For example, Summit won't charge my card on a back ordered item until it ships. They give me an estimated ship date and it usually arrives earlier. If for any reason it doesn't make it on that date they send me an e-mail or postcard telling me it's still back ordered, do I want to keep it on order or cancel. I love this system.

What I would appreciate you addressing (I apologize if you have, but keep seeing it brought up without a response) is how you take payment in full up front but do not order the parts until much later, up to six months later by some accounts.

I understand in the case of a group buy where you need five orders of wheels or three engines to get the extra discount. In that case you need their credit card info up front but you should not charge it until you get that group buy together and actually place the order with the manufacturer. Charging their card in advance (could be weeks or even months) is not right. Since you have no money going out until the group buy is called in then their card should not be charged until that order goes in, and you should contact all the customers to tell them it's a go.

I would like an answer in the other cases though, where you charged a card or received payment in some form on a non-group buy purchase yet held up ordering for weeks or months. For an example I'll use the set of wheels and tires we ordered from you for my friend Don last year. The money was in your hands in early October with a quote of 3-4 weeks, yet the wheels were not even ordered for over two full months (wheels finally ordered mid December). I know this as a first hand fact from talking to the wheel company directly, and not to just a sales guy but someone who would know. Though he protected you and would not directly answer me as to when the order was placed, he did confirm that their build time was three week MAXIMUM for the entire time the wheels were on order. My friend and I were hearing that they were behind, that they're in-process, will go out next week; this was before you'd even placed the order!

Since this is not an isolated case (I have other personal friends I've sent to you that had the exact thing happen and verified by calling the manufacturer that the product was in stock and on the shelf, and had been since before they paid for it, and they had no order from you for that part). I want to know how this is happening. This has come up several times in this thread in addition to several pm's and e-mails to myself and other staff members. If you could explain how this particular sequence keeps re-occurring and what you are going to do to eliminate it in the future, I think it will help your business immensely.

[kwhizz]

After reading thru this thread it would seem that if Frank is going to be in the business of selling a multitude of parts on a volume basis.....he needs to get some software that is designed to monitor and track the orders, billing, and delivery's...............It's not Rocket Science..........If you are going to be in this business, .....do it correctly.........Just my $.02

Ken

[carbuff]

The Vendor MUST keep his risk to a mimimum especially these days with CC Fraud as rampent as it is, and that still does not protect against charge backs. now who's problem is that??


<philosophical rant on>

I've been thinking about a reply to this thread, not directed at Frank in this case, but as a general philosophy towards the issue of vendors' ability and right to charge customers. The above comment goes against my position, so I'll try to explain how I see this issue... (warning, this might get long.)

Here is where I disagree with your statement... As a vendor, you have accepted the tradeoffs associated with running a business: the risks (non-payment, manufacturing defects, unhappy customers, etc), and the rewards (profits from the business, flexibility in lifestyle of being your own boss, etc). If you didn't understand those tradeoffs when the business was started, you will certainly learn the lessons over time. My father ran a business for 35 years, and I inherited and ran if for 6 months after he passed away. I got to see firsthand the issues on both sides of this coin...

In my opinion, it is wrong for the vendor to justify putting the risk on the customer. There are many reasons that I feel this way, and this thread has highlighted several related to customer's opinions of the situation. One other reason is that businesses actually have a way to recoup losses incurred by a bad customer (one of the reasons to / advantages of starting a business, part of our federal tax code). But a customer often has little recourse or ability to recoup losses incurred due to a bad business. When taking over our business, I learned that each year we wrote off between 1 and 2 percent of our income as bad debts, customers that we serviced that never paid us. In many cases, we even had legal judgements against customers and still couldn't get paid. But at least as a business, we had some amount of recourse through tax writeoffs (not that you get everything back, but at least it's better than nothing).

As a customer, I can 'hope' that I have some protection if my purchases were made through a CC. But that's not guaranteed. If I don't get that, then what, I can try and pursue the matter legally? How likely is that to happen anymore given that the majority of transactions of these types are with companies half way across the country?

Taking an extreme position (and I'm NOT directing this comparison at Prodigy or any other vendor, just trying to present an analogy), what if a company comes up and offers really great deals for a while, offers a few GP's, collects up a bunch of money by requiring the charges up front, and then disappears with everyone's funds without ever shipping the first product. One could argue that it was a poor choice on the part of the consumer to make that purchase, but one could also argue that the people who invested with a Bernie Madoff should have known better too. He took money from some of the best and brightest minds in the country! But in a worst case, it could happen with any vendor. Most of us on sites like these have never met any of the vendors that we deal with, so we don't know what their personal situations might be. As paranoid as that sounds, it can and unfortunately does happen that good businesses sometimes turn bad... So why even give customers a reason for this fear to ever enter their minds?

So you could then argue that the middleman (the vendor) has to pay the manufacturer up front, so they should be able to charge up front. I will again disagree, and for similar reasons as above. The vendors (or to use my term, the middleman) have generally built established relationships with these manufacturers. They are much more likely to know the state of the business and the people they are dealing with, as they have day to day dealings with them. It's a very different dynamic than the customer that comes to a vendor for a one-time purchase. That's not to say that something couldn't go wrong between businesses also, but the likelihood of that happening is much lower. And additionally, the vendors do have the right to charge at the time of shipment, so they should be able to arrange things to work with the manufacturers to 'approve' shipments after payment has been received. That's a detail for businesses to work out with each other, not a detail that should ever be apparent to an end customer.

Customers expect, and have a right to expect, a certain level of customer service. That encompasses the entire customer experience, from pre-sales, to appropriate processing of their payment, to delivery of the goods and service. If you were a local company and your customer service was poor, there would be reports to outlets like the BBB and other places where people could go to get some insight. In that example, if I, as a customer, didn't do a little homework before dealing with a local company, I could share some fault for making a poor purchasing decision. But in this ever increasing web-connected society, it's harder in many cases to find good feedback about these types of transactions or to truly understand the 'real' underlying reasons for the delays. I can't walk in the doors of a remote vendor and get face to face with someone that has my money and owes me something. All that I know is that a person that I may have had a few conversations on the phone with charged a large sum of money to my CC, and I'm left wondering why I don't have the goods or services that I paid for...

Ok, enough of my philosophy... I don't pretend to have an ideal solution to how all of these transactions should be handled either, and I probably tend to be a little too optimistic that people are going to come through and honor their end of any transaction. But I do strongly believe that businesses need to accept a high-level of responsibility and respect for how they handle their customers' money. At the end of the day, that is going to define how they are perceived likely moreso than any product or other service that they provide...

<philosophical rant off>

As I stated before, hopefully some of this dialog will help both customers AND vendors going forward in a constructive way...

[67zo6Camaro]

Well said Bryan

In my opinion and experience in the legal and business world "Buyer be aware". Red flags are everywhere.

If you are risk tolerant as just in investment.... Then continue on as you were.

Good luck all,

[Vegas69]

I've read through most of the posts here and this is my take on the deal. There is really one blaring issue. Charging a customer and not sending in the order.

I can understand why he would want to charge a customer if an order is placed and it's on back order. (As long as it's disclosed) The manufacturer sends the part and now the buyer doesn't have the funds. The vendor shouldn't be expected to take that loss. Put yourself in those shoes for a few days. I bet you change your mind. Sure, you or I wouldn't stick Frank with the tab, but I guarantee there are many that don't give a damn and wouldn't lose one wink of sleep.

I just don't think it's neccessary for everybody to keep piling on him with the same problem. (See paragraph 1) I just can't imagine that he didn't place an order for a referral(In Jody's case) on purpose.

He's taking the steps to make his business more professional. Mainly, adding staff and computer systems that can fill in all these blanks. It's important to keep customers in the loop by answering the phone and following up on orders. I've told him 100 times that he's nuts and needs help BAD. I've also told him that it will be the best thing he's ever done for his business. The top dog shouldn't be placing orders and following up with customers. That's what assistants are for..... Frank is a great car guy but does that make you a great business man? Not usually, he clearly knows where he's dropping the ball and is taking HUGE steps to fix all the leaks.

The parts business is a volume business. It's no different than the cashier at Wal Mart ordering inventory, stocking the shelves, working the check out, and being the greeter at the door. You just can't do it all. That's Frank's mistake.

[Boss 5.0]

After reading all this myself I am a bit surprised that Frank is still taking orders. With everything going on with his move, and trying to keep track of existing orders as well as staffing issues I would take a step back and straighten out what I had in front of me first before adding more to the steaming pile of poo you are dealing with right here. I think I read somewhere here he has around 200 pending orders?

I can say I for one will never do business with this vendor. I have read time and again about poor customer service. No thanks!!

[Erics66Fastback]

I am glad that you started this thread about Prodigy Customs. I too have had a very similar experience with them as you have. Mine started in May of 2010 when I placed an order with them for an AME Max G chassis, rear axles and 13” Wilwood Brake Package. The chassis went ok on the order and delivery about 3 months. But the brakes and axles took from say May 25, 2010 when he said my check cleared the Bank till October 13, 2010 on brakes and Late November 2010 on the axles around 5 months. What makes you mad as a customer is when you’re told things that do not happen time after time and you have sent e-mails that don’t get answered then see them posting on this web site an others but not answering you (looks like others also) and taking care of their customers!!
Below is some of the e-mails sent to me.
7/14/10
(Just got out of the paint booth. It is fricken hot! Brakes should be there any minute, I will check on the frame. I will follow up in the morning and hit you back tomorrow.
7/27/10
Never forget you. I sent this soon as I got a anger. Please let me know you got it this time. If I don;t hear from you I will call.
7/25/10
Just heard back, Brakes are shipping Friday
8/17/10
The rears are ready today, I am shipping those today. the fronts will be a few more days. i should have a update from AME today also.
9/28/10
Front and rear brakes are drop shipping from Wilwood today. Sorry for the delay
9/28/10
I really screwed up trying t split that order, through us right to the back of the line. Bad plan, won;t do that again. But it is handled now
11/8/10
Just got back from SEMA, let me find out where they are, will let you know soon as I hear back
11/9/10
Sorry, i was totally out of pocket all week.There was a question on the pinion location, centered of offset, got the question answered, they will ship Thursday, 2 days to you. Monday / Tuesday at the latest.
11/23/10
From me: Parts are still not here and I have not heard from you. So let’s get this resolved...

There was several e-mails that would not get answered, some phone calls but I did get 98% of what I ordered from them after I felt like I had to worry, beg and hound to get something that I paid for. Frank is a real nice feller but customer service was awful for me. So I would not recommend them to anyone to use because of the past history I have had and what you are also reading about.

Eric

[Greg from Aus]

My take on it.

Frank has problems as he has stated, he has also stated that he is working on them and has a solution on the way.

We can continue to take a swipe at him and keep filling the pages of this thread or move on.

I see we all have a choice to make from here, take Frank on his word, that he is honestly working toward a solution and bare with him or move on.

My self personally, I trust him, I have a lot of money invested with Frank and I mean a lot, I live on the other side of the world and I can still get hold of him most of the time and there is a 12 hour time difference, sometimes I get a bit pi$$ed of if I can't get hold of him., but I will cut him some slack because I think his knowledge is fantastic, and I have come to class him as a friend.

Like I have said, you can continue to pile $hit or move on because, I believe a person can only apologies so many times and acknowledge they have a problem.


Greg

[killer67]

I had a negative experience with Prodigy that is not important to rehash.

Good to see the professionalism and composure from everyone on the board. I would like to commend Scott, admins, and mods for handling this so well. :lateral: This thread would not have survived 2 hours on other boards. These forums are exceedingly informative but are also here to look out for the well-being of BOTH the PT enthusiast and the vendor.

I think this thread is a testament to that.

[jocko124]

I had a negative experience with Prodigy that is not important to rehash.

Good to see the professionalism and composure from everyone on the board. I would like to commend Scott, admins, and mods for handling this so well. :lateral: This thread would not have survived 2 hours on other boards. These forums are exceedingly informative but are also here to look out for the well-being of BOTH the PT enthusiast and the vendor.

I think this thread is a testament to that.

Well said Fernando.

[Flash68]

Frank is a great car guy but does that make you a great business man? Not usually

I've tried to refrain from posting in this thread, but this is the one major point I think people should just come to grips with. The sooner customers lower their expectations of sellers/dealers/vendors in this industry, the more people can be pleasantly surprised when things go right and not shocked when things don't happen as they should.

Is that pessimistic? Yeah, maybe. But is it good for everyone involved? Well, yes, I think so.

I had a negative experience with Prodigy that is not important to rehash.

Good to see the professionalism and composure from everyone on the board. I would like to commend Scott, admins, and mods for handling this so well. :lateral: This thread would not have survived 2 hours on other boards. These forums are exceedingly informative but are also here to look out for the well-being of BOTH the PT enthusiast and the vendor.

I think this thread is a testament to that.

Very well written. Another reason this forum stands out above the rest.

[69clark]

I have dealt with Frank on a brake kit in the past. With out getting into details I experienced many of the same issues as others. I was never worried about Frank ripping me off, I knew he was good for the parts but it was just one miscommunication after another ( not my fault). At some point it isn't about the money, it was about my time and getting my project done. In the end, Frank didn't resolve my problem, I did. I ended up calling the manufacturer and getting them to resolve the situation. That should never have to happen.

In the end I know Frank is a great guy and does the best he can. He is probably too nice and too busy for things to run perfect. By the sounds of his posts, he is working on fixing that and that is all that can be asked. However in the end I feel frank was the one that lost out as my plan was to order my custom wheels through him. But because of the problems with communication from the brake kit, I could not afford to go through it again with my custom wheel order. I had to go else where to protect myself from that happening again.

There are no hard feelings towards Frank but like I said because of the troubles he lost out on my wheel order. I would love to help out people and shops like his but at the end of the day I have to look out for myself and my project time lines and I couldn't be sure that Frank would be able to be the answer. In the end I just cut out the middle man and went straight to the manufacturer.

As I said before Frank is a great guy in my dealings with him, there are just things with his business that he needs to address and it seems like he is working on them. I hope that all goes well with his business investment and that these issues become issues of the past.

[jonny51]

The sooner customers lower their expectations of sellers/dealers/vendors in this industry, the more people can be pleasantly surprised when things go right and not shocked when things don't happen as they should.

Are you serious?

[Flash68]

Are you serious?

Yes. I actually am. It sounds kinda ridiculous, but just think about it for a minute. Buying from a vendor on this site will never be like buying on amazon.com. It just won't.

Don't mistake my words for support for Frank, or any other vendor for that matter. I am just saying that if people lowered their standards they would be less disappointed. It's a simple cause and effect.

Again, I am not justifying any vendor actions in this thread. On the contrary.

I have been a business owner/operator in a construction service industry for 6 years. There are many similarities in the automotive and construction industries. There are bad business people in all industries, but they sure seem a dime a dozen in these 2 fields.

I lowered my general expectations quite awhile ago, so therefore I am rarely disappointed! I win. :D

[jocko124]

Yes. I actually am. It sounds kinda ridiculous, but just think about it for a minute. Buying from a vendor on this site will never be like buying on amazon.com. It just won't.

Don't mistake my words for support for Frank, or any other vendor for that matter. I am just saying that if people lowered their standards they would be less disappointed. It's a simple cause and effect.

Again, I am not justifying any vendor actions in this thread. On the contrary.

I have been a business owner/operator in a construction service industry for 6 years. There are many similarities in the automotive and construction industries. There are bad business people in all industries, but they sure seem a dime a dozen in these 2 fields.

I lowered my general expectations quite awhile ago, so therefore I am rarely disappointed! I win. :D

To your point Flash, this issue is not limited to Prodigy Customs only. I have ran into similar issues with two other vendors on this site.

[Greg from Aus]

To your point Flash, this issue is not limited to Prodigy Customs only. I have ran into similar issues with two other vendors on this site.

Thats for sure, not only vendors, but manufactures giving misleading delivery dates.

Greg

[Vegas69]

Yes. I actually am. It sounds kinda ridiculous, but just think about it for a minute. Buying from a vendor on this site will never be like buying on amazon.com. It just won't.



I agree, I love Jeg's and Summit as much as the next guy for there quick shipping and no hassle return policy.(Walmart comes to mind) However, I've NEVER expected to call the owner of the company at 7 PM on Friday night with a problem for FREE. Especially at the reasonable prices he offers.

I'm certainly not saying taking someones money and forgetting to send in an order is the right thing to do. I'm simply saying that you can't bake your cake and eat it too.

I can't blame you guys for being pissed. He definitely deserves to be called out on the rug. I think that's what it took to make him realize it was time to make some changes.

This discussion needed another perspective. It was a dump on Frank fest. He's done way more good than bad since I've been around this deal. His lively hood is on the line here and I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Let's give him a chance to set up his new shop and put people in place to make things more seamless.

A year from now, people will gripe that they can't call him at 7 PM on Friday anymore and his assistant answers the phone and won't patch them through to the boss. His prices are a little higher due to his new staff. He needs to find the middle ground. Profitable and personable. Tough deal in my opinion. You can't have it all........

[Greg from Aus]

I agree, I love Jeg's and Summit as much as the next guy for there quick shipping and no hassle return policy.(Walmart comes to mind) However, I've NEVER expected to call the owner of the company at 7 PM on Friday night with a problem for FREE. Especially at the reasonable prices he offers.

I'm certainly not saying taking someones money and forgetting to send in an order is the right thing to do. I'm simply saying that you can't bake your cake and eat it too.

I can't blame you guys for being pissed. He definitely deserves to be called out on the rug. I think that's what it took to make him realize it was time to make some changes.

This discussion needed another perspective. It was a dump on Frank fest. He's done way more good than bad since I've been around this deal. His lively hood is on the line here and I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Let's give him a chance to set up his new shop and put people in place to make things more seamless.

A year from now, people will gripe that they can't call him at 7 PM on Friday anymore and his assistant answers the phone and won't patch them through to the boss. His prices are a little higher due to his new staff. He needs to find the middle ground. Profitable and personable. Tough deal in my opinion. You can't have it all........

Very well said Todd.

Greg

[Ummgawa]

Whatever it takes.

[72Z/28]

I agree, I love Jeg's and Summit as much as the next guy for there quick shipping and no hassle return policy.(Walmart comes to mind) However, I've NEVER expected to call the owner of the company at 7 PM on Friday night with a problem for FREE. Especially at the reasonable prices he offers.

I'm certainly not saying taking someones money and forgetting to send in an order is the right thing to do. I'm simply saying that you can't bake your cake and eat it too.

I can't blame you guys for being pissed. He definitely deserves to be called out on the rug. I think that's what it took to make him realize it was time to make some changes.

This discussion needed another perspective. It was a dump on Frank fest. He's done way more good than bad since I've been around this deal. His lively hood is on the line here and I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Let's give him a chance to set up his new shop and put people in place to make things more seamless.

A year from now, people will gripe that they can't call him at 7 PM on Friday anymore and his assistant answers the phone and won't patch them through to the boss. His prices are a little higher due to his new staff. He needs to find the middle ground. Profitable and personable. Tough deal in my opinion. You can't have it all........

This is well said, and it is really hard to find somebody to answer your questions for free and at anytime. Frank is really active in this forum and willing to assist anybody here and give technical supports for free which some companies lack. I remember when I used to order parts from Summit, some of their technical assistants were not willing to answer questions or used to give wrong informtion which ended in ordering wrong parts. However, their ordering and tracking systems are excellent.

Lets give him a chance till he sorts out the issue with moving to a new facility and get this inventory issue taken care of first, and I am sure he will, and everybody will happy in the end of the day.

[Ummgawa]

Central issue addressed: Stop charging a man's card for items in full and waiting months to ship.Period. Moving buildings and changing software and not calling customers about various issues aside, stop the CC charges. Then everyone can sit around the campfire and sing "Kum by Yahh".

[Greg from Aus]

Central issue addressed: Stop charging a man's card for items in full and waiting months to ship.Period. Moving buildings and changing software and not calling customers about various issues aside, stop the CC charges. Then everyone can sit around the campfire and sing "Kum by Yahh".

As has been explained in other posts, this is not going to happen. I agree with not charging till the order is placed with the manufacture, but no vendor is going to be happy to be charged upfront and not charge there customer.


Greg

[NAPA 68]

I must say, I do not condone Franks methods (or anyone else) but I am safe to assume he has learned a key lesson. The moderators have made it clear what they will not toletate. Others have made it clear, Frank's knowledge is an asset to the site members. How about this............put the thread to bed?

Regards,

Tim

[Ummgawa]

As has been explained in other posts, this is not going to happen. I agree with not charging till the order is placed with the manufacture, but no vendor is going to be happy to be charged upfront and not charge there customer.


Greg

Greg, our concerns have been made clear, we are on the side of our members.

[Patrick]

This discussion needed another perspective. It was a dump on Frank fest. He's done way more good than bad since I've been around this deal. His lively hood is on the line here and I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Let's give him a chance to set up his new shop and put people in place to make things more seamless.

A year from now, people will gripe that they can't call him at 7 PM on Friday anymore and his assistant answers the phone and won't patch them through to the boss. His prices are a little higher due to his new staff. He needs to find the middle ground. Profitable and personable. Tough deal in my opinion. You can't have it all........


Well said Todd.

Please put an end to this thread. People have aired their feelings - and now it is getting repetitious. Frank has heard you and is taking steps to correct this in the future.

[dhutton]

Well said Todd.

Please put an end to this thread. People have aired their feelings - and now it is getting repetitious. Frank has heard you and is taking steps to correct this in the future.

X3. I think it's time to end this dogpile and give Frank some time to get his house in order. I'm guessing he has plenty of incentive to get it right at this point.

Don

[XcYZ]

Yep, I agree. Time for this thread to end. Frank needs to get his house in order. We have a shocking amount of members upset with Frank that are unwilling to come forward because they are over a barrel or just want to be done and never touch that subject again. Frank may not be listening to his customers, but I sure am.

Frank is working on getting his house in order. I'm glad to hear that. Once it is in order, he can then become a supporting vendor again.

He's never screwed anyone, but the treatment of our members has been way out of line. If it were anyone else, they would have been LONG gone. I've been giving Frank the benefit of the doubt many, many times... and for a long time. You simply cannot charge a person in full and then not deliver the parts 6 months later and only after countless attempts to contact via e-mail and phone calls. It's insanely frustrating. It's not the industry standard by any stretch of the imagination.

I HATE that it's come to this, but when it comes to Frank making a profit vs. how we, our members of this community, are treated, it's clear. There's no room for this here. Frank will no longer be a supporting vendor.