325's without relocating leafs? No Prob

[Track Junky]

Squeezed some 325's in without relocating leafs. Original plan was to relocate leafs inboard 3/4" but I have 1/2" clearance so I'm going to let it go. Jason at Jays Hot Rods did the work and he e-mailed the build pics to me but he doesn't do photobucket so unfortunately I cant post them until I snag his SD card.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub041.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub040.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub039.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub038.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub037.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub036.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub035.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub034.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub033.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub032.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/325s%20and%20mini%20tubs/325sandmini-tub031.jpg

[Ron in SoCal]

Very cool Gae. Car looks good w bigger meats :thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Wow man that looks great with the new shoes... you moved into the 21st century with that. :D :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Wow man that looks great with the new shoes... you moved into the 21st century with that. :D :thumbsup:

Yeah 21st century, no kidden', lol. Been wearing the same set of shoes since 2001.

Very cool Gae. Car looks good w bigger meats :thumbsup:

Thanks Ron. I'll tell you what though, these 140 tread wear Michelins dont even stick half as good as my Toyos. Did some ice skating today :D

[Ron in SoCal]

^ yeah I'll bet. I've got some r888 335s if you want to do some horse tradin'...(not that they'd fit ;) )

[Track Junky]

^ yeah I'll bet. I've got some r888 335s if you want to do some horse tradin'...(not that they'd fit ;) )

Oh man, to bad they weren't 315's. Oh well, hopefully I can find someone I can get a deal from.

[coolwelder62]

Lookin good.:thumbsup: Not old school any more.

[MarkM66]

Looks good.

Is that a 10" wide wheel?

[Track Junky]

Lookin good.:thumbsup: Not old school any more.

Thanks Scott, now I just need one of your subframes for the 315's up front;)

Looks good.

Is that a 10" wide wheel?

Thanks. Wheel is an 18x10.5.

[coolwelder62]

[QUOTE=Track Junky;347650]Thanks Scott, now I just need one of your subframes for the 315's up front;) Gaetano,I have started working on a new sub frame.That should let me run a 335 up front on a 12 inch wheel.You might want to wait.:_paranoid :_paranoid

[Vegas69]

^ yeah I'll bet. I've got some r888 335s if you want to do some horse tradin'...(not that they'd fit ;) )

How old?:unibrow:

[Track Junky]

[quote=Track Junky;347650] Gaetano,I have started working on a new sub frame.That should let me run a 335 up front on a 12 inch wheel.You might want to wait.:_paranoid :_paranoid

Scott, I think 315's is as wide as I want to go up front. If I go 335's up front I will have to do the same for the rear and I dont want to relocate leaf's. Thanks though, looking forward to getting your subframe some time in the near future.

[z4me69]

Did you move the shocks in?

[Track Junky]

The transformation is complete. Finally got my R888 315's delivered and the Z06 wheels on all four's. I had to cut the rear wheel studs for the hubcentric adapters so I will be pulling axles to install correct length studs.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Z06%20wheels%20on%20all%204/Z06Wheelsonall4007.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Z06%20wheels%20on%20all%204/Z06Wheelsonall4006.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Z06%20wheels%20on%20all%204/Z06Wheelsonall4005.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Z06%20wheels%20on%20all%204/Z06Wheelsonall4004.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Z06%20wheels%20on%20all%204/Z06Wheelsonall4003.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Z06%20wheels%20on%20all%204/Z06Wheelsonall4002.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/Z06%20wheels%20on%20all%204/Z06Wheelsonall4001.jpg

[Track Junky]

Did you move the shocks in?

Shocks were moved in-board but still on the outside of the frame rails.

[Flash68]

Car looks great with those wheels. :cheers: What size front tires?

[Track Junky]

Car looks great with those wheels. :cheers: What size front tires?

Thanks Dave, fronts are 275/40 17's.

[garymac69]

Shocks were moved in-board but still on the outside of the frame rails.

I sure would like some pictures of the shock installation if you get a chance. I've been trying to figure out the shock location problem before I start a mini-tub project on my '69. I was wanting to go as large as possible without relocating the springs.

Have you had a chance to "push" the cornering to see if the 315's rub on the springs?

[Track Junky]

I sure would like some pictures of the shock installation if you get a chance. I've been trying to figure out the shock location problem before I start a mini-tub project on my '69. I was wanting to go as large as possible without relocating the springs.

Have you had a chance to "push" the cornering to see if the 315's rub on the springs?

Your not going to be able to corner the car and not rub quarter panel without rolling lip and adding a watts link. I'll take some pics of shock mount outside of frame rail and post them tomorrow.

[garymac69]

My quarter's are rolled already. I'm running a 275/35/18 on the rear now. I thought a Watts link might be needed. What control arms, etc are you using to run 275's on the front? Do you have the turning radius limited a lot?

Thanks,
Gary

[Track Junky]

Here are some pics on how the shock is mounted outside of the frame rail. I'm using Global West UPC's and stock lowers. Wheels are 17x9.5 with 5.5" back space. It rubs frame rail loc-to-loc but not enough to be an issue. Front fender lips will also have to be rolled. Depending on how low you go with the front you may have to take a baseball bat and roll a bit more.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/shock%20mount/shockmount002.jpg
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab73/Gitter_Dun/shock%20mount/shockmount001.jpg

[garymac69]

Thanks for the pics.
How much did you widen the inner tubs? It does not look like a typical mini-tub job.

[Track Junky]

Thanks for the pics.
How much did you widen the inner tubs? It does not look like a typical mini-tub job.

In order to keep shock mounts outside of frame rails we cut out the existing tub and moved it in 1 9/16" and then filled in the gap.

Hope this helps.

[garymac69]

Thanks, that helps a lot. I had been looking to do something similiar, but was not sure if it was possible. Now you have confirmed my ideas.

One last question - What rear shocks are you using?

[Track Junky]

I use QA-1 single adjustable's all the way around. IMO for the money they cant be beat. I've noticed great improvements just from shock adjustment.

I'd have to say the first time I really noticed how well they worked was at the 341 Challenge. I typically like to run them at the stiffest adjustment up front on the road course but at the 341 challenge there was so much grip from the asphalt/aggregate combination of the roadway that the front end was literally bouncing up and down around the corners. I gradually backed off the settings 2 or 3 clicks each run until I ran smooth around the corners.

[garymac69]

Thanks for all the info. I'll plan to do something similiar as my winter project. Several times I have almost pulled the trigger on the DSE minitubs, but always had a problem with the notching the rear subframe thing. Most likely 275's Front and 315's Rear will be a pretty good balance, with minimum modifications to the car.

Let me know how your Rear 315's work out on the track.

Gary

[Vince@Meanstreets]

no more tire rubbing!!! good to hear

[garymac69]

One more question: You don't have a problem with your wheels rubbing the Global West UPC's at full lock? My 18x9" wheels w/ 5 1/8" B.S. rub pretty bad on my Heidt's UPC's.

Gary

[Track Junky]

no more tire rubbing!!! good to hear

Thanks Vince!!!

One more question: You don't have a problem with your wheels rubbing the Global West UPC's at full lock? My 18x9" wheels w/ 5 1/8" B.S. rub pretty bad on my Heidt's UPC's.

Gary

No rubbing issues except on frame rails loc-to-loc. 5.5" backspace works best. Is it possible to run a shorter ball joint and not hit UPC?

[garymac69]

Are you using a stock height front spindle with the Global West UCA's? Guldstrand Mod?

[Ron in SoCal]

No rubbing issues except on frame rails loc-to-loc. 5.5" backspace works best. Is it possible to run a shorter ball joint and not hit UPC?

UPC = Upper control arm? I would think a shorter ball joint will mess w you WINNING geometry, right?

[Track Junky]

UPC = Upper control arm? I would think a shorter ball joint will mess w you WINNING geometry, right?

LOL, woops, thanks Ron. Winning geometry? You never really know until you try.

[Ron in SoCal]

^ Aint that the truth Bro...!

[Track Junky]

Are you using a stock height front spindle with the Global West UCA's? Guldstrand Mod?

Yup, stock disk brake spindles out of a Chevelle. No Guldstrand mod.

[garymac69]

Yup, stock disk brake spindles out of a Chevelle. No Guldstrand mod.

More questions: I have been looking for the best taller spindle. (Almost all of the aftermarket taller spindle have a 2" drop built in.) How much taller is the Chevelle spindle than a stock Camaro spindle? What model Chevelle? Did you use the Camaro steering arm?

[Track Junky]

More questions: I have been looking for the best taller spindle. (Almost all of the aftermarket taller spindle have a 2" drop built in.) How much taller is the Chevelle spindle than a stock Camaro spindle? What model Chevelle? Did you use the Camaro steering arm?

Running the taller spindle will challenge your rubbing issue. ATS and other after market spindles are supposed to help geometry. I have never seen one but my guess is that the lower mounting point to the steering arm is a little lower than stock which would help level out your tie rod arm and in turn help with bump steer. The extra length of the spindle up top will help with camber gain by raising the UCA mounting point.

With the Global West control arms I dont have issues with camber gain. As far as bump steer goes I dont feel it although I am running a Steeroids rack and pinion which may be helping.

I'm pretty sure the Chevelle and Camaro spindles are the same. I picked up the spindle/disk brake set up many many years ago from a guy that was parting out his Chevelle. I tried it on my Camaro and it worked. I cant remember what year Chevelle for sure and wish I could remember but I think it was a 1970. Oh, and yes I am using the Camaro stock steering arm.

My basic philosify is if it aint broke dont fix it. This hobby is expensive enough as it is. I dont follow what everybody else is doing, I pretty much just do my own little test and tune on the road course and put together what works for me. There are a handful of guys that can attest that the front of my car sticks like glue but the rear has always been a bit loose and I have a bit of tire spin pulling out of the corners which is why I decided on the mini tub and 315's. I may have been able to get away with a larger front sway bar but with the amount of torque I'm putting down I think the rear tires needed to happen.

[Rick D]

Hay Gaetano,

What rear leafs are you using? Also your wheels are the OEM's or aftermarket? I'm starting back on my car and looking to just build it to have some fun and NOT cost lost of cash. Also woundering why you did not want to do full mini tub and not move leafs in board?

[Track Junky]

Hay Gaetano,

What rear leafs are you using? Also your wheels are the OEM's or aftermarket? I'm starting back on my car and looking to just build it to have some fun and NOT cost lost of cash. Also woundering why you did not want to do full mini tub and not move leafs in board?

I went through three sets of leaf springs and manufacturers before sticking with the Global West. When I ordered them from Global West back in 2002 they were offered in a 2" drop and I asked them to de-arch them another 1". I have heard they offer them in a 3" drop now. I never have taken the time to check the rating on them and that is one thing I dont like about a few of the leaf spring manufacturers. They dont tell you their lb/inch rating.

The wheels I picked up are OEM. Aside from the aftermarket wheels weighing 3 lbs heavier, I was at Infineon earlier this season when a fourth gen Camaro broke an aftermarket vette style wheel coming out of turn 7 due to bad forging at the hub. The car was totaled. That right there told me that OEM is the only way to go.

I didn't due a full mini tub because I did not want to move my leaf springs and shocks in board. Our cars have alot of roll to them and thats fine for autocross but on the road course you want the car as flat as possible in the corners. Relocating the springs in board narrows the pivot point which leaves more weight hanging over each side of the leaf spring. Same goes for the shocks. I wanted to keep them outside of the frame rails for more stability.

[64impala]

BEAUTIFUL SETUP!:thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Thanks, I appreciate the support. I made it out to a NASA event at Thunderhill a few weeks ago only to fail tech. Things look to be getting a little strict due to a few serious mishaps on the track. I had been running the same seat for years and now I have been asked to either run an FIA approved seat or a seat back brace.

I was supposed to hit Infineon June 11th and twelve but my Moser axels didn't get to me in time and I had already pulled the other axles.

What ticks me off is now that the tech guy has put that out there, even if I decided to run with another club with the seat configured as it is, what he said will always weigh in the back of my head so I need to make a decision on what to do.

Cant blame the tech guy, safety first. I think my only track day this season will be Buttonwillow July 30th and then I'll start working a little harder towards safety. FIA approved seat, window net, and fire suppression system.