My Barrett Jackson thoughts

[ProdigyCustoms]

I just thought I would write my view of "the State of the market after Barrett Jackson 2006". Being around the automotive collector / toy market for 25 years, and having rode a couple of the previous "waves" in the "toy" market. Some people look to me for my opinion. And then throw it away, LOL! I must have received 20 phone calls, and had another 20 live conversations this weekend about Barrett Jackson. Everything from, WOW, how about that bus! To, can you believe that LS6 convertible! to, how come the guy in the Ferrari hat bought nothing? But the most popular subject was, what happened to the high end ProTouring and Hot Rods?

Some of these conversations are genuine and inquisitive from people that respect my opinion, but many are from "friends" that are the bolt and nut restoration guys, that just think it is F--kin fantastic these cars did not bring back the investment cost, and would just LOVE to see my business, and all other hot rod builders, that destroy American history, die a slow pain full death!!!!. A lot of these guys know, that if only for a few short seconds, both Bill and Michael thought about the possibility of taking The Goat and Prodigy to BJ. Both Bill and Michael stared the devil in the face with considerable unsolicited offers at SEMA on each car. So, if only for a moment, we had to at least consider the possibility of running them through BJ, if nothing else as a pure business decision. Both Bill and ourselves decided we DID NOT build these cars to sell for profit, but to enjoy, cruise and show. My "FREINDS", knowing about the high offers at SEMA, all wonder, (really want to rub it in), if we made the wrong decision not selling at SEMA? And what if we would have taken it to BJ? And what happened to the market for these cars?

Well, I think what we saw this weekend was resistance in the "hot rod / resto rod" market, let's say north of $125 to $150k. For a couple years Time Machines has been offering copies of the Six Shooter for $250K, and the original only brings $170k and $130K respectively? The 29 T gets all kind of press as the coolest thing since sliced bread, and brings didly? Former Riddler bring only 90K? It seems like buyers were willing to spend a hundred grand or so for a cool toy, but not really willing to step up for huge bucks, north of $150k for hot rods, no matter what the original build cost, awards, press, etc. Another thing i think we saw was their are considerably more people with $100K to spend, then $400K to spend, on a toy. Just about any home owner gained $100K equity in their home the last couple years which they can equity line and buy a toy with for 1 point over prime. But the main thing we saw at BJ as it relates to Hot Rod value, is It really is all about being new and fresh. The offers that tend to fly around SEMA appear to be from guys wanting a fresh, crisp, not shown piece, which they can campaign as their own so they can receive the , "WOW, look at that" instead of the, "there's that car again". I told Bill, while neither the Goat or Prodigy were for sale at SEMA, I felt they were never going to be worth more then they were that moment or possibly this BJ auction, and if one wanted to "cash in", now would be the time. As disappointed as some may be that the Motion car "ONLY" brought $450k, the reality is the car brought supreme money that exceeded the build cost as a fresh piece. The Six Shooter, the 29 T, the riddler car, all support my "stale and previously shown to death" theory.

So what does this mean for guys like us building these cars? I think hobbyist will still continue to invest more in cars then they are going to sell for after a few years on the circuit, just so they can be the one to receive the trophy, or have THEIR name in the magazine story, instead of buying the car complete with trophy's and old stories on the previous owner. I also think the hobbyist is very safe investment wise at $100K to $150K, which will get you a KILLER car, but no Prodigy, Motion, Six Shooter, etc built, but probably return nearly the same amount of money after a couple years.

So, the bad news is, if you build a high end Hot Rod, north of $200K that we will call high end, and you show it and have fun with it for a year or two, your probably going to take a little hit. The good news, is it will be worth $100k to $150k, it use to be worth $50K!

So, what does all this mean us personally, It probably means we made a ****ty business decision and probably lost $100K by not taking Prodigy to Barrett or accepting the offers at SEMA, on the other hand, Michael and I get to enjoy the car and maybe we will get a few trophy's and press with our names on them. Surely their an accountant in here that can amortize that!

[clill]

There is always Barrett-Jackson Florida :unibrow:

[jannes_z-28]

Then there are those of us that will never sell the car, not at least in any near or distant future. For us the value is only emotional not in any accountable funds (except the spending account :lol: ).

I receive offers every year and I always turn them down. I don't want to sell my car, it is a part of me.

Anything has a price, yeah but then it has to be so much so I can go and buy something else, like the Alumin8tr. And nobody will pay me that much for mine.

Jan

[Roger Poirier]

I just thought I would write my view of "the State of the market after Barrett Jackson 2006".


Great thread. I would have to agree on your thoughts. I came to the same conclusion.

R.P.

[steemin]

Frank thanks for your comments and insight.
I agree with your analysis.
Personally, It is hard for me to buy anything without considering resale value.
(It is just the way I am wired)
When it comes to purchasing "Cool Toys":
If you commit to buying a car that is properly built,tastefully done and appeals to a broad spectrum of potential buyers I believe that you will be able to recoup most if not all of your monies when you decide to sell your car.
Assuming of course that the car was properly maintained.
The higher the price the thinner the group of potential buyers becomes.
Again I agree with Frank that @ $150K and up the herd gets pretty skinny.
I feel very good about our little corner of the car world.
More and more people are going to discover how much fun it is to own a car with classic appeal and modern performance and reliability. :thumbsup:
Scott

[syborg tt]

After spending the weekend at the show i realized the same thing. The trick is to build the trend and sell it when you have buyer. I may consider building a few hemi clones and selling them next year. I also noticed that some of the trucks were going for Top dollar and it's makes me feel better about the money i am spending on mine. I even had a few offers and it's not even complete yet.

Just curious what did the aluminator sell for.

I will also be post a bunch of pics of the BM Camaro and the Foose Camaro. I wasn't able to get pics of the Aluminator which by far was the nicest of the bunch quality wise.

[69Nova]

Then there are those of us that will never sell the car, not at least in any near or distant future. For us the value is only emotional not in any accountable funds (except the spending account ).

I receive offers every year and I always turn them down. I don't want to sell my car, it is a part of me.

I'm the same way.

[J2SpeedandCustom]

Frank great write up. I agree that there are ALOT of people willing to spend $100k on a nicely done car. I talked with a ton of bidders last week and all of them will spend the money for a car that is done well and has the right
components


Just curious what did the aluminator sell for
$148k

[XcYZ]

Marty, in case you missed it:

Video of the Alumin8r at Barrett-Jackson (http://www.lateral-g.org/movies/alumin8rBJauction.wmv)

[syborg tt]

thanks for the link

[Musclerodz]

As much as I like my '68 Camaro and my '69 Blazer, everything has a price. As you pointed out Frank, the market is hot when a car is fresh. There is always something new coming out and styles come and go. Also you wonder why you built something this way and if you had to do again, you probably have a better way to do it the next time.

Both the Camaro and Blazer will not be advertised for sale but if someone opens their mouth with a serious offer, they will likley end up owning them. I can always build another one using the newest and coolest trick parts that I had wished was available when I did the last one.

Mike

[Smack_talker]

The cars that were going for big money ($150,000 +)were cars built by the well known builders. People will pay for Boyd, Foose and Troy cars, look at the price they got for the 53 FR100 truck $205K. There were some "good" buys there but not for the "average" guy. When a Hemi clone sells for almost double of a original car...something is wrong. Barret-Jackson is its own world. :faint:

[Derek69SS]

I think a lot of it has to do with the age of the buyers... Pro-Touring is a "young-guy" thing, as it's a pretty new trend. Not too many young guys are able to afford a $100,000+ car.

[HAULNSS]

Do you think that there is a 'stigma' attached to a custom car? I have known a few local cars that basically fade away because of these issues.

1. The owner wants way too much thinking that he is the only and the best builder.

2. The car will always be known as "Bill's car", "That blue truck", "The Hemi car", etc. The new owner inherits the 'identity' of the previous owner. Unless something drastic is changed on the car (usually expensive), it will be the 'car that has been around for years'.

3. There are some who admire the builder as much as the car, therefore, the new owner gets no respect for purchasing a complete car. The 'Built it vs. Bought it' crowd that usually is masking their jealousy for not having the cash to openly make a large purchase. (We all know this person in a car circle)

Does any of that make sense?

On a related note, I have a friend who is a custom, small quantity home builder. He had his best luck with 'starter homes' that were appealing to many. When he started building homes for two to three times the price, he had trouble selling them. The reason? People looking to spend nearly half a million on a custom home wanted to have some input towards the project. For that kind of money, they wanted to pick colors, room styles, etc. Much like cars, when the buyer has more to spend, they usually find the exact match to their tastes, or just contract it out to get what they want.

My two pennies on the topic,
Randy

[ProdigyCustoms]

The offers that tend to fly around SEMA appear to be from guys wanting a fresh, crisp, not shown piece, which they can campaign as their own so they can receive the , "WOW, look at that" instead of the, "there's that car again".




I think this answers question 2 and 3. There is no doubt a car becomes the first owners car for life, no matter who owns it, it will always be Bill's car, etc. I think you are exactly right

[XcYZ]

I think it's really hard to compare the rare collector car prices the 'resto-mod' prices. We all know that the rare cars are bought as an investments. I'm not building my car as an investment or do I hope that I'd ever have to sell it, but it's nice to know that there's value in what I'm doing.

On a side note, the Baldwin-Motion SuperCoupe was in the top 1% of all the money getters at B-J and it was the 2nd highest price paid for a Camaro this year (behind only the ZL1).

[Bill Howell]

I think this answers question 2 and 3. There is no doubt a car becomes the first owners car for life, no matter who owns it, it will always be Bill's car, etc. I think you are exactly right
I dissagree somewhat Frank. We are talking about a Barrett Jackson/national stage auction here. Not me selling my car locally. Take the aluminator for example. I would be curious to know how many people that bid on the car knew it was Charley's,Jody's, Stewart's, etc's "old" car. Trueth is the car sold on it's own merits, and brought good money for what it is. Shame is, it is on the start of the Protouring genre curve so to speak, and would have probably done better next year as the name grows. However this will help future sales, probably some cars from this very site. :thumbsup:
Reality is, other than for a couple national websites, no one has ever heard of Bill Howell, so unless they happen to read about the car in PHR or somewhere, the goat is just a car on the stage at selling time. That of course is a two edged sword. Good thing is it will be the new owners car as much as my old car, bad thing is, it has no celebrity status, hence no celebrity price. If TwinStang was sold, it would not be advertised as Shawn's car obviously, it would be "The Boyd Coddington TV Show Built Car".
So, that being said, You really need to get going with Prodigy Customs this year, so I can take the goat out next January and advertise it as the "First Full On Prodigy Custom Built" Protouring Car. :rofl:

[Damn True]

3. There are some who admire the builder as much as the car, therefore, the new owner gets no respect for purchasing a complete car. The 'Built it vs. Bought it' crowd that usually is masking their jealousy for not having the cash to openly make a large purchase. (We all know this person in a car circle)

Randy



I'm inclined to think that most people hold more admiration for Pablo Picasso than they do for some shlub that happens to own one of his paintings.

The same is true of car builders and buyers. I have a crapload more respect for Frank or Steve-o than I do for the guy that may eventually buy "Prodigy" or "Streetfighter". Frank and Steve built them with their own hands and sacrificed other stuff at the time to do so as opposed to writing their name on a check below a bunch of zeros.

[jack67rs]

My 2 cents, Car museums and collectors will always put up more money for their art pieces strictly for the draw. Restorations definetly ruled the show. My boss sold his blue 69 camaro pro-toured Lot #774 for 50,000 and a white 67 camaro painted up like a Baldwin car with a factory like 427 motor sold just around 80,000. The good thing for my boss was that he turned around purchased a 32 Ford 3 window coupe on Friday that probably had a build cost between 150 to 200 grand for 52,000. There was some really nice hot rods sold for around 80,000. I was at the show on Tuesday and watched a stock 69ss 396 camaro sell for just under 70,000, scratching my head the whole time.

[HAULNSS]

I'm inclined to think that most people hold more admiration for Pablo Picasso than they do for some shlub that happens to own one of his paintings.

The same is true of car builders and buyers. I have a crapload more respect for Frank or Steve-o than I do for the guy that may eventually buy "Prodigy" or "Streetfighter". Frank and Steve built them with their own hands and sacrificed other stuff at the time to do so as opposed to writing their name on a check below a bunch of zeros.

That is the point I was trying to make. Most appreciate the builder, few appreciate the deep pockets that keep the builder going. :yes: Without the guy writing the big checks, the builder will quit building.

It takes both parties. Heck, I'd love to buy a Foose car for 25k but I don't think he'd be making a lot of cars. :lol:

The whole scene at BJ seems so out of whack with 'normal' economics, as the marketing and hype affect the prices too much, I think.

Who could've predicted the Bus? :wow:

Randy

[Damn True]

I wonder how many of those guys put more "value" in being able to tell people, "I paid $XXX,XXX.00 for this car." than they do in the car itself?

[Stuart Adams]

Az sales tax made out big.
BJ Inc. made out big.
Fun event, 100 mill in sales.
Probably bigger next year.
New tent was awesome.
At least the announcers switched from resto mod to pro-touring.
Saw Dave Christenholtz's collection with my son and Colin - awesome cars, and looked over the Mule - awesome car.
Happy to be a tiny tiny guppy in a pool of great whites.
Looking forward to next year and all the drama it will bring.
Can't wait for SEMA 06.

[Ummgawa]

I wonder how many of those guys put more "value" in being able to tell people, "I paid $XXX,XXX.00 for this car." than they do in the car itself?

There may some truth to that. I am sure that there is a wall somewhere with dollar marks up high with piss stains next to them accompanied by the names of those who pissed up that high. In other words there are pissing contests any where there are men+cars, +women and money. Not necessarily in that order.

[Kendall Burleson]

If you are going to count the time to build these car and the money you invested. You would be better off socking the money in some kind of muthal fund at 12% for the next 20 years are so.but and that a big BUTTT you can not burn rubber in that 12%muthal fund or enjoy it with all the great people on this web site. the money seem to be over power the love of the car boys & girls love their car.if you just put a dollar amount on the time we spend on this site a long. we would find some thing different to do.if making money is your goal you are in the wrong line.some times you hit the lotto and some time you eat crow.but if you enjoy the sport and the people. their is no dollar amount you will take that will be enough for you to get afullfillment.of building that machine from the ground up. by the way the people that was selling at BJ most of them bought the cars they were selling. :yes:

[Payton King]

but I heard second hand that there were quite a few cars bought back by the owners as they did not bring the price they were looking for. I know if I had $100,000 in a car and the bid stalled at $45, I would have to have a contingency plan.

[bob johnson]

If you are going to count the time to build these car and the money you invested. You would be better off socking the money in some kind of muthal fund at 12% for the next 20 years are so.but and that a big BUTTT you can not burn rubber in that 12%muthal fund or enjoy it with all the great people on this web site. the money seem to be over power the love of the car boys & girls love their car.if you just put a dollar amount on the time we spend on this site a long. we would find some thing different to do.if making money is your goal you are in the wrong line.some times you hit the lotto and some time you eat crow.but if you enjoy the sport and the people. their is no dollar amount you will take that will be enough for you to get afullfillment.of building that machine from the ground up. by the way the people that was selling at BJ most of them bought the cars they were selling. :yes:
12% mutual fund..gimme a name and phone number.. :rofl:

[ProdigyCustoms]

12% mutual fund..gimme a name and phone number.. :rofl:

You beat me to it Bob.

[Bill Howell]

Happy to be a tiny tiny guppy in a pool of great whites.



I hear you talking there guppy. I ain't buying it though. :lol:

[JayR]

Great post, Frank but before anybody gives you a hard time for a bad investment, tell them to try and guess the marketing value that car has been and will continue to be for your business. Keep it, drive it, and let it sell jobs!

[Bowtiguy]

very good thread. after watching BJ through its entire speed history I registered as a bidder and met my father there last weekend to see things first hand, spend the qaulity time with the man who started initiated my love of cars and I came away with quite a few impressions....

high dollar hot rods just didn't bring the cash. As I stood on stage and watched the locally built ( pinkies is right up the road from me) 29' Rod that I had drooled all over at every local show I saw it at this year, it AMAZED me the hammer hit the block at 190K?????

with this being said... I "let" the 57' Nomad go for 137K because 1) I wasn't prepared to pay that much and 2) I'd be ripping it apart to due it "My way" anyhow and a 137K starting price for a project is NOT the way to go.

I'm still a "car guy" at heart, I'm tied up way more now with my dental practice and our first child on the way, but I'm still going to wrench on my Nomad project as much as possible and pay to have the things done I don't have the facilities to do or expertise. With camaro shells from Dynacorn and other car models on the way ....I think the home built crowd still has an option, unlike my father who would love to pick up a stocker 68 Z/28 coupe to replace the gold/black version he traded in on his 1970 LT-1 M22 car back in 70'.

That same vette with 25K origonal miles, one owner, is worth less than almost all of the 69 Z's that crossed the block last weekend. WHY? because that is the current trend. Many more people plucked down the cash for a 69 camaro than did $5,500 for the LT1 in a vette the following year. As My father and I watched the ZL-1 cross the block. He leaned over and told me that there were SIX in an Indianapolis Chevy dealer back on 1970 when he was lookng for his LT1. They couldn't give them away at double what a stock vette went for....hind sight is 20/20 :thumbsup:


as midyear vettes (big blocks or not) all get bought up and sold again at other auctions or BJ 07' you will see buyers graviatate towards the stingways and they will due the research to find the "rare" versions...some 427's went across this year.

Just look at how many "factory correct numbers matching" ( I'm sick of that phrase after 3 days at BJ) hemi's cars that were not cudas that crossed the block...most went for less than 100K..if you liked the early cuda body style :rofl:

Two phrases I heard last weekend hold the most truth...

1) You may have the best "19XX" in the world, but two people have to want it to bring good money.

2) you are only one bid away from paying above market value...