So, let's say you order a large amount of parts...

[ModernMuseum]

...from a large, reputable vendor here on the forums. I would like your input on how long it should take to get the parts. Assume you ordered the following, where the prime vendor coordinates everything and ships it to you (for the purposes of this thread, let's assume that the parts are for a 69 camaro since a lot of people on these forums are running this setup):

New LS crate motor and vendor does some modifications (cam, vintage front runner setup)
ECU/harness
6-speed t-56 trans, hydraulic clutch, all associated hardware to hook up the pedals
Hydraboost, new master cylinder
Vintage AC unit and all associated hardware

Assume it's around $20k worth of parts and you've fully paid up before you receive any parts. Now, after the payment, how long would you think it would take to receive these parts? Two, three months?

Ok, now, if you didn't receive them in what you felt a reasonable amount of time, how long would it take before you got agitated and confused that you haven't received the parts? Four, five months?

Now, say the parts are trickling in, but you can't do a bulk of the work because you're missing the last 25% of the parts and things keep dragging out on and on and on. How long before you got super pissed? Five, six months?

I'm interested in hearing from people's first hand experience or Vendors on the board concerning how long it would take to coordinate an order of this magnitude. Please keep this civil because I'm very interested in the replies.

[elitecustombody]

I would have made sure before making the order if all parts were available or in stock and also asked the vendor for timeframe, that way you can actually have everything lined up especially if you have a shop working on your car.

Realistically it shouldn't take more than a week to bolt up or swap the parts on the motor/tranny,week or two to gather up all the parts if they are all in stock, so anything longer than a month is unreasonable IMO. BTW, I'm taking about off the shelf parts not some one off custom parts.

Hope everything works out for you.

[Flash68]

I assume you were given an ETA on delivery of ALL said parts BEFORE you plunked down your credit card?

[ModernMuseum]

I would have made sure before making the order if all parts were available or in stock and also asked the vendor for timeframe, that way you can actually have everything lined up especially if you have a shop working on your car.

Realistically it shouldn't take more than a week to bolt up or swap the parts on the motor/tranny,week or two to gather up all the parts if they are all in stock, so anything longer than a month is unreasonable IMO. BTW, I'm taking about off the shelf parts not some one off custom parts.

Hope everything works out for you.

Thanks for the reply, Stefan. I just want to get a feeler for what other people think it should take. I'm new to ordering this quantity/dollar amount of parts, so I want to make sure I'm not being unreasonable with my expectations.

If we're using the above example, I think a sound assumption would be that everything is fairly readily available.

[ModernMuseum]

I assume you were given an ETA on delivery of ALL said parts BEFORE you plunked down your credit card?

Yes. The original ETA, if my memory serves me, was expected to take about two months. I may post up more details later, but for now I'm just fishing for a few opinions or experiences.

[Flash68]

I can understand specific parts becoming delayed for valid reasons for a 3rd party, but if ALL various parts are delayed, that is a scary one there as I see it. But I think one would need more details of your exact situation and timeframes of communication before really opining.

[ModernMuseum]

I can understand specific parts becoming delayed for valid reasons for a 3rd party, but if ALL various parts are delayed, that is a scary one there as I see it. But I think one would need more details of your exact situation and timeframes of communication before really opining.

Since the parts ordered were pretty much as referenced in the original post, I think there's enough information to make a rough assessment. I may post up details later after I've received a few more opinions.

[Flash68]

Best of luck. Sucks to be in that situation for sure.

[ModernMuseum]

Best of luck. Sucks to be in that situation for sure.

Thanks, man. Yes, yes it does-especially since it's one of the major and most advertised vendors here and over at pro-touring. :(

[130fe]

Have you been in contact with the vendor you bought the parts from? What are they telling you?

[214Chevy]

Thanks, man. Yes, yes it does-especially since it's one of the major and most advertised vendors here and over at pro-touring. :(

First, it would have to be Jesus Christ for me to give anybody $20k in total on any business venture that isn't complete. Second, I would never give the total amount down...ever! I don't care how well respected a business is. That's just the nature of the business. Now 25%-30% is ok. 50% at most in an extreme case after sitting down with a dealer/vendor on a conference call or something after assuring me all parts are available. Now me personally, I don't even see an LS (plus parts) and T56 even being a 2-3 month out order. You can go all the way to the moon and find that stuff. IMO, by giving the 25%-30% down would make or should make the vendor work more diligent and be more eager to get your parts in so he can get the rest of his money.

[Stuart Adams]

When buying parts from so called buying groups, smoozers, middle man , vendors, etc., we all need to be very careful. The economy is tight and we as customers need to be sure the money we are putting down for our parts are NOT paying for the previous guys parts. IMO.

[OOCustoms]

Well in my experience in ordering parts Ive been lucky to have no real issues. Only big order I made once, years ago for about 5k was for one off parts and the order was filled quickly from my recollection. Tho by the time I got to installing parts I found the control arms were for the wrong year frame.......oops.

I believe I paid up front then but I know, knowing what I know now that I would definitely take caution on placing an order that big and paying in a lump sum.

Take my dads roofing business. He gets 10% down, 25% when material is delivered and remainder when the job is complete.

All in all do your best to contact and be diplomatic with the vendor as these things get ugly on forums from what Ive seen. And mods arent to forgiving on name calling due to liability.

[ModernMuseum]

Thanks for the replies, gents. I assume that this stuff can be procured/work executed at most in two months.

Have you been in contact with the vendor you bought the parts from? What are they telling you?

Yes, weekly to twice per week. The initial order was placed in September 2010. 60% was paid in Sept. and the rest was paid in October. Everything was supposed to be here "before Christmas." The vendor pretty much has said "Yes, this is coming, yes, this is shipped and it'll be there by the end of this week or it'll be there next week." Then, it never shows. More expediting, same story, a few more parts trickle in (rinse, repeat for a few months) but I can't install the engine/tranny because a few key components aren't in. In a sitcom, it would be almost comical because the Vendor doesn't even know what I have/haven't received, so I'll have to call and say, "Yes, the kit came, but only about 25% of the stuff in the kit was there." Essentially, all the work that I thought I could get done over the winter during the cool months can't/didn't get done.


First, it would have to be Jesus Christ for me to give anybody $20k in total on any business venture that isn't complete. Second, I would never give the total amount down...ever! I don't care how well respected a business is. That's just the nature of the business. Now 25%-30% is ok. 50% at most in an extreme case after sitting down with a dealer/vendor on a conference call or something after assuring me all parts are available. Now me personally, I don't even see an LS (plus parts) and T56 even being a 2-3 month out order. You can go all the way to the moon and find that stuff. IMO, by giving the 25%-30% down would make or should make the vendor work more diligent and be more eager to get your parts in so he can get the rest of his money.

Yes, agree and a valuable and hard lesson was learned. There's no incentive for them to deliver if you don't withhold partial payments. However, I've heard from other people on totally different forums that sometimes middle men vendors won't place orders until fully paid. That's actually how we do it in the engineering/construction business. We withhold the final payment until all documentation is received.

When buying parts from so called buying groups, smoozers, middle man , vendors, etc., we all need to be very careful. The economy is tight and we as customers need to be sure the money we are putting down for our parts are NOT paying for the previous guys parts. IMO.

Very true. That thought has crossed my mind, along with:
1) Vendor is very busy and *ahem* doesn't have time to expedite/deliver parts/track the order
2) Vendor doesn't have the money to order parts because they're behind on bills
3) Parts are back-ordered (very unlikely for some of the parts missing)

I'm a pretty docile guy, but I just want my parts so I can finish my project. I also would really like to prevent this thing from happening to someone else so they're not left with their pants around their ankles for six months waiting on an ECU/wiring harness/flywheel/clutch stuff/ac compressor/water pump that could seemingly easily be ordered from someone else.

Who knows, maybe Christian holidays are good milestones to have things done, because Easter is just around the corner, so maybe I'll have the parts by then. Whenever I clicked my heels and set out for LS-land, I had no idea this was going to be part of the bargain.

And yeah, OOCustoms, I don't like to be a whistle blower, but you can ctrl-f here and there and find out who it is pretty easily. You may be surprised, but then again you may not.

[dhutton]

Everytime I read one of these stories I get to thinking that someone is having cashflow problems. I can't think of any other REASONABLE explanation.

Just my two cents,
Don

[Ketzer]

This sucks for MM. I understand how you are in this spot. I'm waiting on some one-off wheels that were supposed to be 60-70 days out, that was in early Dec.

I don't guess I'm familiar enough with the selling practices of some of these parts businesses. You guys talk about paying percentages for parts and paying the balance after you receive them? I wouldn't ship a toilet seat unless it was paid in full on the front end. I'm suprised that you are saying some will do that? We aren't talking about building a car where you do some work, get paid a little, do some more work, etc. Who could send parts out on a percentage and hope to get the rest? I don't get where you are saying MM shouldn't have paid in full up front? That isn't really an option, is it?

Jeff-

[XcYZ]

This seems to be a trend.

I would be pissed. I fully understand asking for a % down on a large order, but asking to be paid in full and not getting parts for 6 months is ridiculous. And they don't even know what parts you have or haven't recieved?

Who is this vendor? I think that company needs to explain what's going on and bring this to resolution.

[scherp69]

And yeah, OOCustoms, I don't like to be a whistle blower, but you can ctrl-f here and there and find out who it is pretty easily. You may be surprised, but then again you may not.

This seems to be a trend.

I would be pissed. I fully understand asking for a % down on a large order, but asking to be paid in full and not getting parts for 6 months is ridiculous. And they don't even know what parts you have or haven't recieved?

Who is this vendor? I think that company needs to explain what's going on and bring this to resolution.

I think he told us who the vendor is, if I'm reading between the lines correctly.

[Ron in SoCal]

^ Jeff, I think the suggestion is to put down a good sized deposit (30-50%) and then pay the balance when the parts are ready to ship. On MM's order that might've proven difficult, given the drop ship from multiple vendors + accretive work prior in shipping the motor. I still think that could've worked had the deal been set prior to full payment. And in any case, no matter what was put down, MMs been six months worth of patient!

MM - this kinda stuff is happeneing more frequently these days. Most of us on the board do not know if it's one or more vendors (tough to even discuss on PT) but I think we all need to be careful who we place orders w and what the down/delivery terms are. I do hope you get your stuff ASAP...:unibrow:

[Ron in SoCal]

This seems to be a trend.

I would be pissed. I fully understand asking for a % down on a large order, but asking to be paid in full and not getting parts for 6 months is ridiculous. And they don't even know what parts you have or haven't recieved?

Who is this vendor? I think that company needs to explain what's going on and bring this to resolution.

Bravo Scott! :lateral:

[PSV]

Why is the vendor not being outed? There are similar threads going on in both forums over the last several months and the stories are very similar and likely are the same vendor. Why not prevent someone else from having to experience the same frustration?

[ModernMuseum]

This seems to be a trend.

I would be pissed. I fully understand asking for a % down on a large order, but asking to be paid in full and not getting parts for 6 months is ridiculous. And they don't even know what parts you have or haven't recieved?

Who is this vendor? I think that company needs to explain what's going on and bring this to resolution.

IIRC, the terms were loose and simply vocal with regards to to the payment plan. I would have paid in full during the initial payment, but I had to shift some funds around and sell some stocks, which is why the payments were separated by a month. My initial thinking was, that I was dealing with a really solid vendor and the payment plan was ancillary to getting the parts. The Vendor didn't demand payment in full, but wanting the parts as soon as possible, I opted to pay up front.

I think I'm in the right that 6 months is a little out of control. (Actually, I think it's completely out of control.) I just wanted to check and see with you guys that my expectations were on par with yours. Looking back at my build thread (@PSV), the work came to a pretty good halt in December.

[radrambler]

MM
I AM SORRY TO HEAR OF THIS ISSUE.

You as a customer would think if your an ADVERTISING VENDOR on a forum of this CALIBER THEY ARE NOT ROBBING PETER TO PAY PAUL. Unfortunately a web SITE and BIG TALK is not expensive when you play this game regular UNTIL THE WORD GETS OUT. IT WILL COME OUT..
PAYED IN FULL !!!!!
GIVE THE CUSTOMER THIER PRODUCTS.. UNLESS THE VENDOR IS FUNDING /LIFESTYLE/PROJECTS...trying to get enough people to order same stuff to get GP? pricing from mfg or HASNT ORDERED THE PARTS ..THATS BAD BUSINESS.
CUSTOMER ISNT RESPONSIBLE TO VENDOR ONCE VENDOR IS PAID !!!!
SO customer shouldnt have to chase VENDOR to get all of OR ANY OF the PARTS.
CUSTOMER ARE THE ONLY REASON THEY HAVE A BUSINESS!!!!
how unfortunate that a customer has to go through THIS BULL..

THATS MY .02

ps. IF I PUT OUT 20K AND GET RUN AROUND . IM MAKING A VISIT.. with HELP.
Tom

[XcYZ]

I think I'm in the right that 6 months is a little out of control. (Actually, I think it's completely out of control.) I just wanted to check and see with you guys that my expectations were on par with yours. Looking back at my build thread (@PSV), the work came to a pretty good halt in December.

I agree, completely out of control.

[XcYZ]

Why is the vendor not being outed? There are similar threads going on in both forums over the last several months and the stories are very similar and likely are the same vendor. Why not prevent someone else from having to experience the same frustration?

I don't know who the vendor is, but I suspect the OP (MM) is hesitant because the vendor has him over a barrell as they have his money and the control of his parts.

[BBC69Camaro]

Unless I was told something was on back-order, I doubt I would be nice after 3 months for something that I paid for.

At this point I wouldn't be nice anymore. I would email the vendor a link to this thread and tell him you either want a refund of un-shipped parts or a tracking number with a packing list indicating what was shipped or you will post their business name on this board along with every board that will let you that they do business on.

I'd also look into what charges could still be disputed with my CC company as a backup plan.

[ModernMuseum]

Unless I was told something was on back-order, I doubt I would be nice after 3 months for something that I paid for.

At this point I wouldn't be nice anymore. I would email the vendor a link to this thread and tell him you either want a refund of un-shipped parts or a tracking number with a packing list indicating what was shipped or you will post their business name on this board along with every board that will let you that they do business on.

I'd also look into what charges could still be disputed with my CC company as a backup plan.

I'm sure he'll find it on Monday :cheers:

[groovyjay]

This looks to be the trend at the moment. I ordered load of stuff from a vendor who is not on this forum and I called them in advance to hear if they'd have all the parts in stock. The sales rep insured me that they had all the parts ready to go so I gave them the credit car number and green light to go a head with my order. They were supposed to email me a tracking number and after two weeks I emailed them to ask about the tracking number, got no answer. I've been very busy at work and haven't had the time to work on the projects and that's why I didn't start bombard them 6 months ago about my order I just emailed them every now and then and NEVER got a reply... :rolleyes:

After about 4 months I called them to see what kind of excuse they'd have. They said that they were waiting this and that to arrive and they had been really busy and all that. :rolleyes: They also said that my order would be out the door in two days... :rolleyes: After two more weeks I sent them couple of more emails, no reply, tried to call them, no answer. :_paranoid

Then I emailed them how I really felt about their way of doing business and said that I would go public with all of this on all the internet forums they are vendors on. 5 minutes later in the middle of the night my email was replied and the sales rep pleaded to get another day to get everything ready to go. I gave them 2 days to come up with a tracking number. 3 days later they emailed me my tracking code. 3 days ago I finally got my parts after 6 months wait...

If the economy is as bad as it seems, I'd think all the small companies would be fighting with customer service if nothing else, prices are pretty even with all the vendors so it's the company with good customer service that gets my business. :cheers:

[214Chevy]

.........Then I emailed them how I really felt about their way of doing business and said that I would go public with all of this on all the internet forums they are vendors on. 5 minutes later in the middle of the night my email was replied and the sales rep pleaded to get another day to get everything ready to go. I gave them 2 days to come up with a tracking number. 3 days later they emailed me my tracking code. 3 days ago I finally got my parts after 6 months wait...

For some strange reason or another, I bet he suddenly gets his parts after the vendor reads this post for fear of being exposed. Especially, if the vendor is as popular on here as he may be. Such said vendor would hate to have to answer alot of questions from members as to why buyer hasn't gotten parts in 6 months.

[rjsjea]

Pisses me off reading this thread..........and it wasnt even my $$ or project.

Anymore I try to order direct from the company producing the parts or through the "walmarts" of hot rod parts (Summit/Jegs).

[ModernMuseum]

This looks to be the trend at the moment. I ordered load of stuff from a vendor who is not on this forum and I called them in advance to hear if they'd have all the parts in stock. The sales rep insured me that they had all the parts ready to go so I gave them the credit car number and green light to go a head with my order. They were supposed to email me a tracking number and after two weeks I emailed them to ask about the tracking number, got no answer. I've been very busy at work and haven't had the time to work on the projects and that's why I didn't start bombard them 6 months ago about my order I just emailed them every now and then and NEVER got a reply... :rolleyes:

After about 4 months I called them to see what kind of excuse they'd have. They said that they were waiting this and that to arrive and they had been really busy and all that. :rolleyes: They also said that my order would be out the door in two days... :rolleyes: After two more weeks I sent them couple of more emails, no reply, tried to call them, no answer. :_paranoid

Then I emailed them how I really felt about their way of doing business and said that I would go public with all of this on all the internet forums they are vendors on. 5 minutes later in the middle of the night my email was replied and the sales rep pleaded to get another day to get everything ready to go. I gave them 2 days to come up with a tracking number. 3 days later they emailed me my tracking code. 3 days ago I finally got my parts after 6 months wait...

If the economy is as bad as it seems, I'd think all the small companies would be fighting with customer service if nothing else, prices are pretty even with all the vendors so it's the company with good customer service that gets my business. :cheers:

De ja vu! :lol:

I feel ya though, man :mad:

[214Chevy]

.....the "walmarts" of hot rod parts (Summit/Jegs).

Hahahaha, I love Jegs. What I love about them the most is you can return parts up to a year later. That's a plus in my book in case your project gets put on hold or you change your mind and want to go a different route. Perfect example...I bought a F.A.S.T. 102mm throttle body in March 2010. My Chevelle is on hold due to my twin boys starting college. Meanwhile, due to my car being on hold, I no longer wanted to run a cable driven throttle body. I didn't even call Jegs or anything (I already knew the returns policy). I simply filled out my return form on the back of my receipt last week, mailed it back and got a full refund. No questions asked. Now that's customer service. I waiting to buy the new 102mm DBW throttle body by ERL Performance.

[7TSS]

This really sounds like a growing concern. Until now I've never mentioned it before but I can really relate to your situation since I was in the same boat for about half that amount of money (that was taken up front). Lesson learned--I'm not doing that anymore. Not positive if it was the same vendor but sounds like it could be. I eventually got everything after a stressful 10+ month wait.

Hope you get the balance of your stuff soon.

[Romulus]

This reminds me of a small order (relative to this one for sure) that I bought some time back.

General lack of communication, had to remind him several times what exact parts I ordered, follow up as I knew a couple pieces were being drop shipped, , etc., etc. Of course my credit card was charged within hours of placing the order.

I knew SEMA was around the corner and I'm sure that didn't help and I think I was pretty patient (several months). Parts got here eventually and all was good, but I've never ordered again because I just didn't feel like he cared or just had too much ego to say sorry it took a while and SEMA is making me crazy.

I think *some* of the problem is these business owners are running around trying to do everything, run the shop, manage the business, employees, projects, shows, keep up with the forums, and on and on, and then they run a parts business too. Ego tells them they can do it all and that's how they built their business and success. Awesome. But...

At some point they can't remember or have the time to do it all and suddenly everything is falling through the cracks and more often than not - ego prevents them from accepting this or apologizing when it does happen and everybody loses. Customer gets pissed off, vendor is frustrated, future business lost, and the rollercoaster ride takes off.

I think (no real "build" experience) here that the profit in the shops is in labor and service - not in mostly small profit margins from selling parts (even though it certainly feels like that on my credit card :lol: ) and it's easy for the "admin" work of ordering, tracking, shipping, customer service, to take a back seat.

In these cases, a key to further business growth is finding someone they can trust to take on responsibilities like keeping track of these damn orders, keeping customers apprised of statuses or delays, and much of the other behind the scenes stuff. Tough order to fill in some cases as I'd guess most of us want or expect to talk to the owner. Their the ones with the experience in fitting all these off the wall combo's we end up with, right?

Then there's the stuff I bought from Autoloc at a Good Guys event - what a HUGE mistake that was. Lesson learned there. That guy bleeds shyster.

Hopefully this gets resolved quickly from here on out. Good luck.

[dubbleu]

Oh no I hope Im not in for the same run around. I ordered new rims on Jan 6th and was charged 3k to my credit card with a small balance and shipping costs to be charged to my card on thier arrival. I was told 4-8 weeks. I waited till thursday (12 weeks) to call and see what was up.
I got no answer but left a polite message to return my call. So far I have not heard a thing. I will keep ya posted.

[ModernMuseum]

This really sounds like a growing concern. Until now I've never mentioned it before but I can really relate to your situation since I was in the same boat for about half that amount of money (that was taken up front). Lesson learned--I'm not doing that anymore. Not positive if it was the same vendor but sounds like it could be. I eventually got everything after a stressful 10+ month wait.

Hope you get the balance of your stuff soon.

Wow, 10 months? That would be stressful. That's almost a year, man! Completely uncalled for if you ask me.

Let me guess...the vendor's in Cali......

Negatory.



I knew SEMA was around the corner and I'm sure that didn't help and I think I was pretty patient (several months). Parts got here eventually and all was good, but I've never ordered again because I just didn't feel like he cared or just had too much ego to say sorry it took a while and SEMA is making me crazy.

Yep, I think we both agree that's a pretty lame excuse. On the labor vs parts issue, I think there's a nice cushion of profits selling parts, which is why you see a lot of middle-men type guys with connections to the wheel manufacturers. They get the specs from the customer, call and place the order, wheels are manufactured and drop-shipped to your door. Boom, work done. Wheels are just an example though.


I think *some* of the problem is these business owners are running around trying to do everything, run the shop, manage the business, employees, projects, shows, keep up with the forums, and on and on, and then they run a parts business too. Ego tells them they can do it all and that's how they built their business and success. Awesome. But...


I think you hit the nail on the head in this case. Fewer expenses = greater profit margin = good for vendors/sometimes bad for customers when they cause delays and parts lists grow to where they're unmanageable without adequate manpower to handle logistics.

Oh no I hope Im not in for the same run around. I ordered new rims on Jan 6th and was charged 3k to my credit card with a small balance and shipping costs to be charged to my card on thier arrival. I was told 4-8 weeks. I waited till thursday (12 weeks) to call and see what was up.
I got no answer but left a polite message to return my call. So far I have not heard a thing. I will keep ya posted.

Damn, I'm sure you'll be fine in the long run, but that's pretty ridiculous for wheels.

[skatinjay27]

Another one here with the "6 months is crary" hpefully you get your parts soon and still out the vendor...because even if they make right on it and get your parts asap they still wasted your time that you can't get back... I was thinking its the exact opposite location of cali...

[Van B]

I have my guess and I hope (unlike the other threads) that some day we find out who the vendor is.

[Richio1]

^^ AJ, I'm thinkin the same thing. I had the same experience ordering a Moser rearend. I call to get PT advise and bought the story that he can get me his "special" 4 link rearend I need to go with my airride set up. "takes Moser 3 days to turn one around and ship it" he says. I pay him the 3k to order it. Three days later no tracking # so I email. No response. After a week I call. No call back. Fortunetly I took notes while we were talking and had the guys name he orders through at Moser so after 2 weeks I call Moser. The guy tells me he has no order from him or in my name or to my ship to address. I call "OO" back leaving a stern message that I need an update on my order status mentioning I called Moser and they dont have my order. He calls back, leaving a vm, saying they (moser) are out or 4 link brackets so it is delayed a couple days. The next week I call Moser again and he tells me again that they still don't have the order. I then call F again and call bullsh!t on his story telling him that Moser said they still don't have the order. No call, no email or anything... but that Monday I get a call from Moser telling me they just got the order and it would go out on Wed which it did... Oh and he tells me that they are never out of 4 link brackets. I think fs is full of bs

I will tell you that I have had fantastic service and support from the group a Matt's Classic Bowties. They are about an hour away and since I want to keep the business local I have given them all the business I can. Plus if I ever needed to "drop in" I could. Have never had to so I'm stickin with them.

Best of luck... but why look out for your vendors interest when they obviously aren't looking out for yours!?!?

[ModernMuseum]

I have my guess and I hope (unlike the other threads) that some day we find out who the vendor is.

I don't want to give away the name yet, but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

[214Chevy]

^^ AJ, I'm thinkin the same thing. I had the same experience ordering a Moser rearend. I call to get PT advise and bought the story that he can get me his "special" 4 link rearend I need to go with my airride set up. "takes Moser 3 days to turn one around and ship it" he says. I pay him the 3k to order it. Three days later no tracking # so I email. No response. After a week I call. No call back. Fortunetly I took notes while we were talking and had the guys name he orders through at Moser so after 2 weeks I call Moser. The guy tells me he has no order from him or in my name or to my ship to address. I call "OO" back leaving a stern message that I need an update on my order status mentioning I called Moser and they dont have my order. He calls back, leaving a vm, saying they (moser) are out or 4 link brackets so it is delayed a couple days. The next week I call Moser again and he tells me again that they still don't have the order. I then call F again and call bullsh!t on his story telling him that Moser said they still don't have the order. No call, no email or anything... but that Monday I get a call from Moser telling me they just got the order and it would go out on Wed which it did... Oh and he tells me that they are never out of 4 link brackets. I think fs is full of bs

I will tell you that I have had fantastic service and support from the group a Matt's Classic Bowties. They are about an hour away and since I want to keep the business local I have given them all the business I can. Plus if I ever needed to "drop in" I could. Have never had to so I'm stickin with them.

Best of luck... but why look out for your vendors interest when they obviously aren't looking out for yours!?!?



Ding...ding...ding...ding...ding!!!!!! Hahahahahahaha!! You are a very smart man...oh, wise one. Now, if guys don't figure it out now I don't know what to say. I will say this, that I am very surprised as I thought such said vendor was on the up and up from the looks of the support and recommendations he has received from this site.

[ModernMuseum]

^^ AJ, I'm thinkin the same thing. I had the same experience ordering a Moser rearend. I call to get PT advise and bought the story that he can get me his "special" 4 link rearend I need to go with my airride set up. "takes Moser 3 days to turn one around and ship it" he says. I pay him the 3k to order it. Three days later no tracking # so I email. No response. After a week I call. No call back. Fortunetly I took notes while we were talking and had the guys name he orders through at Moser so after 2 weeks I call Moser. The guy tells me he has no order from him or in my name or to my ship to address. I call "OO" back leaving a stern message that I need an update on my order status mentioning I called Moser and they dont have my order. He calls back, leaving a vm, saying they (moser) are out or 4 link brackets so it is delayed a couple days. The next week I call Moser again and he tells me again that they still don't have the order. I then call F again and call bullsh!t on his story telling him that Moser said they still don't have the order. No call, no email or anything... but that Monday I get a call from Moser telling me they just got the order and it would go out on Wed which it did... Oh and he tells me that they are never out of 4 link brackets. I think fs is full of bs

I will tell you that I have had fantastic service and support from the group a Matt's Classic Bowties. They are about an hour away and since I want to keep the business local I have given them all the business I can. Plus if I ever needed to "drop in" I could. Have never had to so I'm stickin with them.

Best of luck... but why look out for your vendors interest when they obviously aren't looking out for yours!?!?

I just re-read that. That's disheartening.

And very good point, especially since I've since realized that....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nDq1HoNm-E

[millertime179]

All i can say is wow...i have a good idea on who this vendor is as ive heard alot of the same stories about a certain vendor over the past few months. I believe what is happening here is a certain vendor is using this guys money to buy the last guys parts and the next guys money to buy this guys parts and so on. Im sorry to hear your situation and i don't blame you one bit for being upset. That is alot of money and terrible business on the vendors part. I hope you recieve the rest of your parts so you can continue your project and your nightmare can end. I have a good feeling that due to this thread your parts will show up soon and if this goes on long enough the word will get out and ppl wont have to endure these types of headaches anymore.

good luck and i hope everything works out for ya.
kevin

[ccracin]

It really is very disturbing that this is becoming a trend. I really think however that the "you should be able to figure it out" statement may be doing a dis-service to vendors that are doing the right thing. We for one still have alot of money to spend before the end of our project and I feel it would be very useful to know who this is. It takes us long enough to get things done without having to deal with this stuff. I can also say that there are vendors on here and I will mention names that deal with us customers issues as well. One of these may be the OP's problem vendor. I really hope not, but with comments like the one quoted above I can't be sure. I have been talking with Drivers Inc. and Paradise Road Rod and Custom for months about some parts. They have both quoted me things multiple times because it has been so long in between inquiries. Yet they give me what I need and hopefully know that when the time comes, they will get the orders. In the end, I don't think we should be left to speculate who the problem vendor is. Let us know, so we are not nervous about all the vendors on here. Just my .02

[ProdigyCustoms]

The problem vendor is me

Keith, first off, certainly none of this is your fault.

Second, I already acknowledged the disaster your order was on another post when you brought it up before. . Yes, we screwed up. But you fail to mention a few things.

One, you miss ordered your wheels against my strong advice. i was 100% your fault on the wheels and I offered to send another set of $2500 centers at my expense and put your wrong VERY HARD TO SELL CENTER on the shelf. Which i later sold.

You have 80% of the order including the engine, front drive, trans kit, Right now you are waiting for about $1100 ECM, water pump and balancer bolt.

I told you I had the water pump bolt and the ECM and Water pump are drop shipping from the GMPP distributor whom as JUST got inventory a couple weeks ago of the replacement number for the ECM we ordered they discontinued.

GMPP also canceled the front drive we speced for your motor and replaced it with a new number, that JUST got replaced a couple weeks ago when you received it.

Your post makes it sound like your waiting for everything.

We accept complete responsibility for screwing up on this order, but some things like replaced front drive kit form GMPP being un available and ECM being unavailable has been beyond my control.

And when we talked Thursday you were totally fine?

[ProdigyCustoms]

To address the " Do not know what parts he has received question".

That is really simple. We order a kit from our supplier, a complete kit. And the vendor we drop ship from says we will be back ordered the crossmember, but sends 2/3 of the kit. In Keith's case I was told the only thing he would be waiting for would be the crossmember. But then Keith does not get the flywheel either. And I find out when I talk to Keith there is no flywheel also. In the meantime we know something is on the way from the transmission supplier because I forwarded tracking of that mystery package 2 days before I find out Keith recived no clutch. I assume it is the missing crossmember. But it is Thursday I find out the pressure plate is missing also.

I did not know Keith was missing the water pump as it used to be included in the original front drive kit he we ordered from GMPP, and now the new number becomes available, we rush it straight to Keith, and it does not include a water pump, and I have no idea. So I have to order a water pump.

Same for the Kwik bracket we send for the kit, does not work with that front drive kit? We had no clue.

Irony of it all is the engine sat here for a couple months waiting for the front drive that we insisted on installing. But when it became obvious the front drive would not show up Keith and I made the decision to send the motor minus the front drive.

Now Keith is R and D ing the front drive. I have sent 2 different kwik brackets, not a water pump to try and correct the new front drive.

[Ron in SoCal]

Way to stand up Frank. There's always two sides to every story...

[ProdigyCustoms]

Thanks Ron, but no real 2 sides. Just a lot more to it then it sounded.

If I would have had any clue we would have such a hard time getting the GMPP stuff i would have done something different from the get go.

Keith and I both agreed to keep the motor until the front drive came in for a long time until we ultimately realized that kit was discontinued. We were told a new replacement kit was coming out and when it did, it was different from the old number in a lot of ways.

Also, Keith and I both agreed to wait to ship everything at once, so we postponed the transmission order (drop ship) until the the motor was ready to go. Engine ships, order transmission, and no close ratio T56 Magnums! So after waiting long as we can we agree to send a 2.97 first gear unit. 2.66 are units anticipated later this week. It is not my suppliers fault but they are out of transmissions. This last week I called 3 different Elite distributors looking for units as I am waiting for 2 more for orders as we speak. Our supplier is supposed to have shipped from Tremec, hopefully will see them this week.

Like I said, none of this is really Keith's fault. And I am surly not trying to make any of this look like his fault. All he did was buy parts. But there are a lot of things that created this. Its not like we just refuse to deliver his parts.

Combine some inefficiency on our behalf, lord knows I am guilty of that and am correcting it, some horrific back orders and discontinued products from suppliers, and you have a perfect storm.

[ModernMuseum]

The problem vendor is me

Keith, first off, certainly none of this is your fault.

Second, I already acknowledged the disaster your order was on another post when you brought it up before. . Yes, we screwed up. But you fail to mention a few things.

One, you miss ordered your wheels against my strong advice. i was 100% your fault on the wheels and I offered to send another set of $2500 centers at my expense and put your wrong VERY HARD TO SELL CENTER on the shelf. Which i later sold.

Frank,

Thanks for coming in to the thread to respond. For the interest of the readers, it is not my intent to create a pity party, fight fire with fire, or defame anyone, but only to post facts.

I’ll attempt to answer your responses one at a time.

Yes, we already discussed the wheels here, so to avoid duplication I’ll just reference the posts. Cliff notes: My fault (didn’t know how to measure lug spacing at the time), I offered to pay, Frank paid for the centers. After a few unanswered emails from me to PC asking to where do I send the centers, I get a call stating that they need the centers the very next day. I took off early from work (I get paid hourly), drive 20 miles to my house, 20 miles back to FedEx, so Frank can sell them to someone the next day.
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?76885-Where-is-Frank-from-Prodigy&p=768548#post768548

In the interest and entertainment of detail, I also paid for PC to provide me with a fully assembled engine (L76 to LS3 conversion), which I’m currently assembling in my garage. So, hopefully we can call it a draw on the cost of shipping the centers. Yes, you maintained a debt for $2500 until I returned the centers to you. You also maintained the better part of $18k in cash for a few months while I waited on parts :)


You have 80% of the order including the engine, front drive, trans kit, Right now you are waiting for about $1100 ECM, water pump and balancer bolt.


Your post makes it sound like your waiting for everything.


Yes, I stated earlier in the thread that I have roughly 75% of the parts. A little correction to your list above:
ECM and engine harness
Flywheel
Hydraulic Clutch and all associated bracketry/linkage/stuff to connect it to the pedals
Water Pump
Balancer Bolt
(Drive shaft that will come later after I give you dimensions)


I told you I had the water pump bolt and the ECM and Water pump are drop shipping from the GMPP distributor whom as JUST got inventory a couple weeks ago of the replacement number for the ECM we ordered they discontinued.



GMPP also canceled the front drive we speced for your motor and replaced it with a new number, that JUST got replaced a couple weeks ago when you received it.



We accept complete responsibility for screwing up on this order, but some things like replaced front drive kit form GMPP being un available and ECM being unavailable has been beyond my control.

And when we talked Thursday you were totally fine?

In summary-and I see that a few posts have been added to the thread since Frank's initial post-if parts were ordered back in September/October, when the initial order was made and the purchaser order was drafted, this conversation wouldn’t be taking place (example: close ratio transmission that we have since agreed upon to go with the standard ratio). If parts were not available when the purchase order/receipt was drafted, then the purchase order shouldn’t be drafted at all or modified as such.

Lastly, skimming over the posts, everything that Frank posted is true and the intent of this thread is to remain factual. If I have made a discrepancy somewhere, anyone can feel free to fill me in :)

In short, three things:

1) Six months is too long. Period. I think others will agree that even less time is too long. I sent an ultimatum on 31 Jan requesting my money back if parts didn’t come in by a certain date. No response was received. Not cool, man.

2) I’ve received a very disturbing number of PM’s from people with similar stories of lesser commercial magnitudes. It seems that I am not the only one waiting on parts that have been delayed. None of my business, but we just want our parts so we can finish our projects.

3) I suggest that you find a way to circumvent the issue of customers being your QA/QC. The prime Vendor is responsible for determining the logistics of all parts. This is how it works when I buy multi-million dollar Gas Turbine Generators from Siemens or Dresser-Rand or Solar for installation in billion dollar facilities. This shouldn’t be any different. When customers are first-timers, often they don’t know what they’re missing, so when they go to build and realize they don’t have something, this creates even more delays.

[radrambler]

Frank,

Thanks for coming in to the thread to respond. For the interest of the readers, it is not my intent to create a pity party, fight fire with fire, or defame anyone, but only to post facts.

I’ll attempt to answer your responses one at a time.

Yes, we already discussed the wheels here, so to avoid duplication I’ll just reference the posts. Cliff notes: My fault (didn’t know how to measure lug spacing at the time), I offered to pay, Frank paid for the centers. After a few unanswered emails from me to PC asking to where do I send the centers, I get a call stating that they need the centers the very next day. I took off early from work (I get paid hourly), drive 20 miles to my house, 20 miles back to FedEx, so Frank can sell them to someone the next day.
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?76885-Where-is-Frank-from-Prodigy&p=768548#post768548

In the interest and entertainment of detail, I also paid for PC to provide me with a fully assembled engine (L76 to LS3 conversion), which I’m currently assembling in my garage. So, hopefully we can call it a draw on the cost of shipping the centers. Yes, you maintained a debt for $2500 until I returned the centers to you. You also maintained the better part of $18k in cash for a few months while I waited on parts :)




Yes, I stated earlier in the thread that I have roughly 75% of the parts. A little correction to your list above:
ECM and engine harness
Flywheel
Hydraulic Clutch and all associated bracketry/linkage/stuff to connect it to the pedals
Water Pump
Balancer Bolt
(Drive shaft that will come later after I give you dimensions)







In summary-and I see that a few posts have been added to the thread since Frank's initial post-if parts were ordered back in September/October, when the initial order was made and the purchaser order was drafted, this conversation wouldn’t be taking place (example: close ratio transmission that we have since agreed upon to go with the standard ratio). If parts were not available when the purchase order/receipt was drafted, then the purchase order shouldn’t be drafted at all or modified as such.

Lastly, skimming over the posts, everything that Frank posted is true and the intent of this thread is to remain factual. If I have made a discrepancy somewhere, anyone can feel free to fill me in :)

In short, three things:

1) Six months is too long. Period. I think others will agree that even less time is too long. I sent an ultimatum on 31 Jan requesting my money back if parts didn’t come in by a certain date. No response was received. Not cool, man.

2) I’ve received a very disturbing number of PM’s from people with similar stories of lesser commercial magnitudes. It seems that I am not the only one waiting on parts that have been delayed. None of my business, but we just want our parts so we can finish our projects.

3) I suggest that you find a way to circumvent the issue of customers being your QA/QC. The prime Vendor is responsible for determining the logistics of all parts. This is how it works when I buy multi-million dollar Gas Turbine Generators from Siemens or Dresser-Rand or Solar for installation in billion dollar facilities. This shouldn’t be any different. When customers are first-timers, often they don’t know what they’re missing, so when they go to build and realize they don’t have something, this creates even more delays.

AMEN.. VERY INTERESTING... THANKS YOU MM FOR SHARING.
WE are customers at one time or another and I/WE APPRECIATE FACTS.

Tom

[ProdigyCustoms]

In short, three things:

1) Six months is too long. Period. I think others will agree that even less time is too long. I sent an ultimatum on 31 Jan requesting my money back if parts didn’t come in by a certain date. No response was received. Not cool, man.

Keith, first off, not that 4 months is better then 6, but your paid on 11/29 and it was to be a 2 month process. The motor was there on Jan 29,

Only thing you bought in October was your wheels which made it there in 4 weeks.

As for not responding? There are tons of emails, phone conversations, It is not like we have not spoken twice a week according to you own statment, and you say

"No response was received. Not cool, man"[/B]


I called immediatly after your demand letter and we discussed where we were with front drives and ECMs, and transmission.

Keith, again, I am surly not trying to lay this on you. But it is not like we have been in constant communication through this entire ordeal. We talked Thursday, everything was fine and you was going to let me know what else showed up for the transmission.

I really don't want a pissing match back and forth

As for working on follow up. You bet were on it. It is going to take people and I have them coming. Simply said, the business has got too big for me to answer every call, take every tech call, handle every order, every PO, make sure every supplier sends a complete order. I have reached my limit and then some. I have taken measures to help with this already. I already reduced my phone hours so I can work on orders and fullfillment at night. I have more people starting soon and space to house them in the works very soon. By May 1 I will have one person that does nothing but follow up on POs from drop ships and locate other vendors when items are not available. And we will be in a much larger facility May 1 so we can stock a lot of this stuff that is a such a problem to drop ship.

[nvr2fst]

Keith, first off, not that 4 months is better then 6, but your paid on 11/29 and it was to be a 2 month process. The motor was there on Jan 29,

Only thing you bought in October was your wheels which made it there in 4 weeks.

As for not responding? There are tons of emails, phone conversations, It is not like we have not spoken twice a week according to you own statment, and you say

"No response was received. Not cool, man"[/B]


I called immediatly after your demand letter and we discussed where we were with front drives and ECMs, and transmission.

Keith, again, I am surly not trying to lay this on you. But it is not like we have been in constant communication through this entire ordeal. We talked Thursday, everything was fine and you was going to let me know what else showed up for the transmission.

I really don't want a pissing match back and forth

As for working on follow up. You bet were on it. It is going to take people and I have them coming. Simply said, the business has got too big for me to answer every call, take every tech call, handle every order, every PO, make sure every supplier sends a complete order. I have reached my limit and then some. I have taken measures to help with this already. I already reduced my phone hours so I can work on orders and fullfillment at night. I have more people starting soon and space to house them in the works very soon. By May 1 I will have one person that does nothing but follow up on POs from drop ships and locate other vendors when items are not available. And we will be in a much larger facility May 1 so we can stock a lot of this stuff that is a such a problem to drop ship.

I and most likely others here appreciate you coming forward and explaining the issues you have been having. It seems like your realizing your business is getting a little out of hand for you, Lisa and Michael where you need to hire staff to keep things moving efficiently. Although this can be a hard discission I can assure you once you find the right people you wont regret it. I tryed controlling every aspect of my businesses for years and it took awhile for myself to realize its more than one can handle. You'll have somewhat a lower stress level also lol.
The question that I have is were you the vendor in the "vendor not coming through" posts recently. Your explanation stated here may have resolved a lot of disputes in the other thread. If not, again I appreciate you being open and hopefully that particular vendor does the same.

[wmhjr]

Guys, I don't want to come across as just rushing to the defense here, but I'd like to point out one aspect of this kind of stuff that has painfully become obvious to me recently.

I'm a customer of Franks. I've bought a bunch of stuff from him in the past, and about 5 weeks ago ordered and paid for an order of about $2000 which was supposed to drop ship from the manufacturer in 3 days from the order.

It didn't.

When Frank realized it was not going to ship, he immediately called me. Now, I'll admit, he got my voicemail on a Friday and I didn't actually find out that the parts had not shipped until Monday - which resulted in my losing some scheduling time. But, Frank deserves credit for trying to let me know ASAP. Sometimes I'm just too picky.

So the manufacturer then says the parts will ship early that week. They don't. Then they say the beginning of the next week. They don't. By this time, Frank realizes I'm getting frustrated. He doesn't ignore me - he calls the manufacturer and pressures them into calling me directly. They do.

This particular manufacturer (who we ALL know their product and they are sponsors here) apologizes all over themselves and blames it on ineffective forecasting (frankly, I think they're full of BS because of what happens later). They promise to ship in a few days. They don't. So then they promise for the next Monday. They are so screwed up that they call me back later that very same day to apologize yet again and admit that they're just not going to make next Monday either. Truth is, this particular manufacturer, who at least 35% of us have their products on our cars, is clueless about their supply chain and manufacturing schedule. For FIVE WEEKS they continue to miss dates on stuff that would normally be sitting stocked on shelves. They "claim" the parts shipped last week. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. We'll see. I sure don't have them yet. They didn't even offer to expedite shipping unless I'd pay for it - after I'd waited ridiculously long for parts they "claimed" up front were in stock. My trust in this particular manufacturer cannot be fixed. I'll use their products, but will always question them. Let me be clear. The manufacturer has totally and completely admitted that they are totally at fault here. And they have done so about 5 times now. With the same parts. Unbelievable.

Point is, I don't care who I would have bought these particular parts from. The same thing would have happened. Or let me amend that. I would not have gotten the parts any sooner - but may well have ended up being delayed even more, as I absolutely know Frank put some pressure on these guys. How do I know this? Because I called all over gods earth trying to find ANYONE having this product. Nobody did. And I mean, Nobody. Is Prodigy perfect? Heck no. Nobody is. Sometimes it can be tough to reach Frank because he's so busy. Remember, sometimes the mark of a competent guy is that he's real busy. But every time I've ordered, I've gotten exactly what I expected, and at prices measurably lower than anywhere else. So we all need to realize that getting that extra little discount may be because operating costs are lower, meaning that it's tougher to reach Frank or it may take a little longer sometimes. I too think it's time for Prodigy to grow a bit in order to handle the demand, but I'm not complaining in the meantime.

Bottom line here is that there were a few posts suggesting that the delays were deliberate as a result of cash flow - using customer B cash to pay for customer A parts, then customer C cash to pay for customer B parts. I strongly take issue with statements like that being made about ANY vendor without some strong basis of proof. Those are the kinds of rumors that can hurt people and we don't need that. I've never met Frank in person - only my money has :) but I just thought people ought to get another perspective. He's ordering and getting product from a bunch of manufacturers, and with the economic downturn, increased operating costs and uncertain 2011 demand, I'm seeing a large number of manufacturers simply not meeting their obligations this year. Frank is dealing with this on a daily basis. It is a trend I really don't like.

[KPC67]

Going through this forum my heart started to pound harder and harder, until Frank came in and told his side of the story. I have also been waiting on some parts for quite some time now, and feel a little more at ease knowing that it is not a case of getting the money and running from the customer.
Thanks for owning up Frank! I want you to know that you have not lost any of my business. I think most of us can relate to being busy at times, and not having enough help, or time in the day to do all the things that might be on the table.:cheers:

[Southrod]

Better watch out guys or the moderators will shut this discussion down as they did with my complaints about Driverz Inc.
This will be the last post I put on this forum for those people that appreciate us and our work you can find us on our website .
Good Luck and good bye
Shane

[Greg from Aus]

Better watch out guys or the moderators will shut this discussion down as they did with my complaints about Driverz Inc.
This will be the last post I put on this forum for those people that appreciate us and our work you can find us on our website .
Good Luck and good bye
Shane

Sad to hear Shane, I always look forward to your posts.

Catch you over at usmuscle.com.au

Greg

[Greg from Aus]

I agree it's great to see Frank step up and answer the around about questions posted. I don't believe these un named posts do anybody any good. I haven't posted on any of these topics before, because everybody loves a drama, and want to get a lynch squad together strait away.

I to am waiting from parts from Frank ( manufactures he represents ) for quite some time, actually many months, I also know that the parts I am waiting for are being held up by the supplier, as others have said Prodigy aren't perfect , but I find them genuine. I have 1 email from a supplier telling me 3-4 weeks delivery and 1 Frank copied me in from from the same supplier saying 6-8 weeks, same company Rep, Same day, actually 15 min apart.

I also spoke to an engine parts company at SEMA with Frank and I placed an order for a block and heads, the heads where still having the CNC program done and would be ready in January, there still not ready.

I guess what I am trying to say is get all the facts before you start to pass judgment.

Greg

[ProdigyCustoms]

Going through this forum my heart started to pound harder and harder, until Frank came in and told his side of the story. I have also been waiting on some parts for quite some time now, and feel a little more at ease knowing that it is not a case of getting the money and running from the customer.
Thanks for owning up Frank! I want you to know that you have not lost any of my business. I think most of us can relate to being busy at times, and not having enough help, or time in the day to do all the things that might be on the table.:cheers:

You have the same manufacturer at Wmhjr. And because of waiting for other orders we are waiting on, we caled in advance befoire accepting the order.. Good news is Wmhjrs order did ship, but he only needed half of what your getting. I expect yours will ship this week................I hope.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have 1 email from a supplier telling me 3-4 weeks delivery and 1 Frank copied me in from from the same supplier saying 6-8 weeks, same company Rep, Same day, actually 15 min apart.

Greg

As I mentioned, I am too busy and make mistakes because of it. But not everything that ahppens is within my control. I am badly understaffed and because of the way the business operates today it causes so much extra work, we screw up other things.

The entire industry is one huge back order right now. Suppliers are only quoting what their subcontractors tell them, they tell us, we pass along what we hear. On a daily bases we are forced to drop ship incomplete orders to get SOMETHING in a customers hands. But being understaffed and having to ship incomplete orders makes it extremely difficult to follow up on every drop ship.

Case in point, this one is a future possible nightmare that will require MANY hours to make sure it is not the biggest disaster ever due to the location of the customer. Tonner is in Australia.

Tonner (Greg) mentioned this issue. Greg has something very custom we are having built for him from (Supplier 3) and he is looking to add a part from one supplier (supplier 1) that is required so another supplier (supplier 2) can make a custom part that goes with another custom part another supplier (3) makes. So Prodigy in Florida sells to Greg in Australia a part that requires 3 suppliers parts. So besides us in Florida there are 3 suppliers, one in the south west who has to send a component to another supplier in the northeast who has to send it to the final supplier in the northwest so supplier 2 can send their finished product to supplier 3 for final fitment. Then supplier 3 has to ship it all to a container in California to forward to Greg in Australia so it can go on a truck to Greg's house!

So obviously supplier one is controlling the process. Greg has a few questions about supplier 1s product and schedule and and ask direct to them some tech questions and how long it will take to get it? They tell him 3 to 4 weeks. In the meantime I am emailing the exact same person, at the exact same time, at the exact same company and explain the intricacy of the entire process and how their part will hold up Supplier 2 and ultimately hold up supplier 3, and how this stuff has to go into a container on a specified date, and they tell me 6 to 8 weeks.

That all went down 3 weeks ago. So here is the killer, I last week I have another customer interested using supplier 1s part on suppliers 2 part (this one ends at supplier 2. I send a note to supplier one looking for another of these parts and schedule...................I get a email 4 to 6 weeks until they ship the first parts! So we are already possibly 10 weeks out on what Greg was told would be 3 to 4 weeks out
So now guess what were going to do?

All this would put supplier 3s stuff out 4 months. So now to speed things up we are going to send the final supplier 3 goodies minus supplier 1 and 2 goodies. And we are crossing our fingers Supplier 2s part with supplier 2 part fits supplier 3s part! But Supplier 3 REALLY does not want to send it incomplete without supplier 1 and 2 part. But Greg is dying for a piece of supplier 3s stuff to continue. So we are pressuring supplier 3 right now telling them it will all be fine!

My fear...it turns out like Keith's Front drive!

[Greg from Aus]

As I mentioned, I am too busy and make mistakes because of it. But not everything that ahppens is within my control. I am badly understaffed and because of the way the business operates today it causes so much extra work, we screw up other things.

The entire industry is one huge back order right now. Suppliers are only quoting what their subcontractors tell them, they tell us, we pass along what we hear. On a daily bases we are forced to drop ship incomplete orders to get SOMETHING in a customers hands. But being understaffed and having to ship incomplete orders makes it extremely difficult to follow up on every drop ship.

Case in point, this one is a future possible nightmare that will require MANY hours to make sure it is not the biggest disaster ever due to the location of the customer. Tonner is in Australia.

Tonner (Greg) mentioned this issue. Greg has something very custom we are having built for him from (Supplier 3) and he is looking to add a part from one supplier (supplier 1) that is required so another supplier (supplier 2) can make a custom part that goes with another custom part another supplier (3) makes. So Prodigy in Florida sells to Greg in Australia a part that requires 3 suppliers parts. So besides us in Florida there are 3 suppliers, one in the south west who has to send a component to another supplier in the northeast who has to send it to the final supplier in the northwest so supplier 2 can send their finished product to supplier 3 for final fitment. Then supplier 3 has to ship it all to a container in California to forward to Greg in Australia so it can go on a truck to Greg's house!

So obviously supplier one is controlling the process. Greg has a few questions about supplier 1s product and schedule and and ask direct to them some tech questions and how long it will take to get it? They tell him 3 to 4 weeks. In the meantime I am emailing the exact same person, at the exact same time, at the exact same company and explain the intricacy of the entire process and how their part will hold up Supplier 2 and ultimately hold up supplier 3, and how this stuff has to go into a container on a specified date, and they tell me 6 to 8 weeks.

That all went down 3 weeks ago. So here is the killer, I last week I have another customer interested using supplier 1s part on suppliers 2 part (this one ends at supplier 2. I send a note to supplier one looking for another of these parts and schedule...................I get a email 4 to 6 weeks until they ship the first parts! So we are already possibly 10 weeks out on what Greg was told would be 3 to 4 weeks out
So now guess what were going to do?

All this would put supplier 3s stuff out 4 months. So now to speed things up we are going to send the final supplier 3 goodies minus supplier 1 and 2 goodies. And we are crossing our fingers Supplier 2s part with supplier 2 part fits supplier 3s part! But Supplier 3 REALLY does not want to send it incomplete without supplier 1 and 2 part. But Greg is dying for a piece of supplier 3s stuff to continue. So we are pressuring supplier 3 right now telling them it will all be fine!

My fear...it turns out like Keith's Front drive!

It's OK Frank if it all turns to Sh!!t, I will hop on a plane for 18 hours and pay you a vist, lol :yes:

Greg

[ModernMuseum]

Keith, first off, not that 4 months is better then 6, but your paid on 11/29 and it was to be a 2 month process. The motor was there on Jan 29,

Only thing you bought in October was your wheels which made it there in 4 weeks.


Frank,
That would be most incorrect, good sir. Please re-check your statements.

Payment for wheels was electronically sent on Aug 10, 2010.
Initial payment of $10k was electronically sent on September 3, 2010 via 2 different cards.
Finaly payment of $8500 was sent on November 18th.

I can post screenshots if necessary, which currently reside on my desktop.

In a few days (April 3rd), that will be seven months from the initial payment. Get it done. Enough said.

[ProdigyCustoms]

[/COLOR]

The question that I have is were you the vendor in the "vendor not coming through" posts recently. Your explanation stated here may have resolved a lot of disputes in the other thread. If not, again I appreciate you being open and hopefully that particular vendor does the same.

Over at Pro Touring there was one post that was me, and I stepped up. I have done this many times. The others (I know who the vendors are) were not me. BTW, that guy that started that post. We split his PO and he got half his order for one car and his second order is STILL not ready. Thursday he called, I offered to and did, refund his order and we will recharge him should his stuff ever show up.

As I mentioned in another of those post I steped up to, Not bragging but we had 2 million in sales last year and 1100 some odd unique customers of which 95% are thrilled and happy.

Something I learned long ago:

I went to my first business seminar as a young man in 1987. One thing I was told by a very good instructor that has stuck for ever is this.

Please one person with great service, they MIGHT tell one person at the water cooler.

Example, Hey Joe, what did you do this morning? I got my oil changed over at Franks shop. He always does a great job, you should go there next time you need a oil change!

but piss off one person and at that time the number was 17 people he would tell:

Example, That ****in Frank screwed up my oil change, don't you ever go there..............

The pissed off guy bitches until he runs out of steam 17 people later. That was in 1987.

Today, we have the Internet. Push the send button and you tell the world and all the angry Indians come out!

It is no different here. There are 100s upon 1000s of people that have got free tech (with our without buying from us), great advice, great service and things went off without a hitch. And then there are the disasters.

Sure once in a while you see a praise Frank post, but as a rule people do not post and brag about normal experiences that go as planned. Could you imagine how tired you would get of hearing, I bought something from Frank, it came fast and he talked to me for hours.

Or

I talked to Frank for a hour and he sent me somewhere else to buy. What a great guy.

There would be 1050 of those!

[ModernMuseum]

I agree it's great to see Frank step up and answer the around about questions posted. I don't believe these un named posts do anybody any good. I haven't posted on any of these topics before, because everybody loves a drama, and want to get a lynch squad together strait away.

I guess what I am trying to say is get all the facts before you start to pass judgment.

Greg

You should probably re-check the first post of this thread. Creating a lynch squad was never the intent nor do I believe that is what is has evolved to. The intent of this thread was to garner information about orders of similar magnitude to determine if I, the original poster, was on or off-based with my expectations regarding delivery time from a Vendor. People came in and the general consensus was that I was correct to assume that this particular order should not take this long.

And yes, I do agree with you that people should get their facts straight before passing judgement. If you see any facts that are awry with any of my statements, please let me know.

As for the people who obviously can't withold their emotions and type in all caps to get attention and spray the forums with emotionally charged words, well, I can't speak for them.

[jy211]

It's OK Frank if it all turns to Sh!!t, I will hop on a plane for 18 hours and pay you a vist, lol :yes:

Greg

Bring some of us those pretty women you have down there tho :lol: :thumbsup:

[speedshftr]

funny how this is being turned on the op.thats the way it goes i guess:rolleyes:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well now this is a full blown pissing match.
Keith, again, things are not EXACTLY as your stating. We did the 10K on 2 cards to get the charge off for you (your request) not even knowing what the final order was as the emails below will make clear.Alsom before the final details we even done we sent A/C system, Radiator and headers immediatly which burned a good bit of that. Then we reicvied the final payment for the order on thanksgiving week.

Only modifications to this email transcript is removing your e mail address and phone number.

I will post my notes in bold.

Check sent below, we recived while away on Thanksgiving, booked it in on the 29th of November when we returned.


From: [email protected] (Add as Preferred Sender)

Date: Mon, Nov 22, 2010 8:43 am
To: [email protected]


Folder From Subject Date Size
Frank,

I sent the last payment off on Friday ($8500). I couldn't find my checkbook, so I just got a certified check from the bank. I put it inside an envelope taped onto the box with the Vintage controller inside.

Please let me know the status of everything. Are you providing a gas pedal with the electronic sending unit?

Regards,



Keith Wright l l | [email protected] | O:----------------

Below is a continuous email transcript almost back to inception.

On November 11ths you agreed it would be best to make all the big stuff (Engine / trans) show up at once as you was picking it up at the airport and stuff can only sit so long. NOW AGAIN, I realize you did not mean 4 months later! But this explains exactly why I ordered the trans kit when I did, which then turned out to be back ordered. At this time I had NO CLUE we would stare down these back orders

From: [email protected] (Add as Preferred Sender)

Date: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 1:17 pm
To: <[email protected]>


Folder From Subject Date Size
Frank,

You brought up a good point yesterday about the delivery. It would be beneficial if the engine and tranny were scheduled to be picked up by me at the same location on the same day since they will require a forklift. I wasn't sure if you had already planned it this way.

Also, just to re-cap, the nearest airport to me would be Hobby airport in Houston.

Regards,



Keith



From: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: 11/10/2010 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: Fwd: Invoice details



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Call you in a few minutes

Thank You

Frank Serafine
Prodigy Customs
Pro Touring Specialist
www.ProdigyCustoms.com
407 832 1752 Direct line

Below you were already reciving parts towards that $10,000 you sent, We only took the $10K because we knew the other stuff would be badly delayed



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Fwd: Invoice details
From: [email protected]
Date: Wed, November 10, 2010 11:19 am
To: <[email protected]>

Frank,

I got most of the AC parts in yesterday. It looks like they sent a polished instead of an anodized black one.

Regards,


Keith Wright l | [email protected]| O:

Here I tell you you can pay whenever, no pressure this is Oct 15, you paid on Noveber 22 we recived

From: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: 10/15/2010 08:20 AM
Subject: RE: Fwd: Invoice details



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here I tell you, Make payment whenever your ready. No pressure!


Got it, will get it done this morning. You can do payment whenever your ready

Thank You

Frank Serafine
Prodigy Customs
Pro Touring Specialist
www.ProdigyCustoms.com
407 832 1752 Direct line


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Fwd: Invoice details
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, October 15, 2010 8:26 am
To: <[email protected]>

Sweet,

Horizontal anodized black then. Hopefully I can make it fit in the factory a/c controls location.

I'll start shifting some funds around to pay you when you're ready.

Regards,


Keith



From: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: 10/15/2010 07:20 AM
Subject: RE: Fwd: Invoice details



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What are the options on the AC controller? Do you have an anodized black? Yes, in horizontal and vertical

I plan on making a custom console, so no, I don't have a factory manual. No offset shifter option required then

What are the different shifter location options? The Magnum comes with a sweet shifter and comes out in a good position already for a custom console

What are the F-body pedals and Z-bar kit? I already have (what I believe to be) manual pedals for a 69 firebird. Ok, we deduct $99 then for the pedals

Concerning the drive shaft you're providing, I'm guessing the yokes will mate to my Currie narrowed rear end? Will it have to be shortened to fit once everything is in place? The driveshaft will be included in the price but will come after you install and give me a measurement from the tip of the tailshaft to the center of the rear u joint. This can be tomorrow or a year.


Thank You

Frank Serafine
Prodigy Customs
Pro Touring Specialist
www.ProdigyCustoms.com
407 832 1752 Direct line

Below is a Oct 15, we are still working out details of the engine trans order

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Fwd: Invoice details
From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, October 15, 2010 8:14 am
To: [email protected]
Cc: Keith Wright <kwright286-------.com>

Frank

Mernin!

Thanks for the email - I guess it slipped through the cracks in my gmail amidst all the junk I receive. Thanks for the prompt response and helping me work out the issue with the wheels. A few questions:

What are the options on the AC controller? Do you have an anodized black?

I plan on making a custom console, so no, I don't have a factory manual.

What are the different shifter location options?

What are the F-body pedals and Z-bar kit? I already have (what I believe to be) manual pedals for a 69 firebird.

Concerning the drive shaft you're providing, I'm guessing the yokes will mate to my Currie narrowed rear end? Will it have to be shortened to fit once everything is in place?

Just email or, better yet, give me a call on my cell

Regards,



Keith Again, Oct 13, still working out details


From: Keith Wright <kwright286@--------com>
To: "keith. wright" <keith.wright@--------com>
Date: 10/15/2010 06:25 AM
Subject: Fwd: Invoice details



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ProdigyCustoms]

Continued

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 7:05 AM
Subject: Invoice details
To: Keith Wright <[email protected]>


I only had two questions to close this out

On the A/C controller, horizontal polished?

Do you have a factory console? (for offset shifter)

Lisa will knock this out this AM soon as I add these 2 details


Prodigy Power L92 540HP Engine package includes $9775 + $245 shipping

New L92 with Prodigy camshaft / spring package
LS3 Intake
Mike Norris Motorsports Ported 90MM T Body
Stainless Work CALS1SB headers
Street and Performance natural engine mount adapters
Energy Suspension Engine mounts 3-1117G
Prodigy / Champ Road Race oil pan
GMPP F Body accessories drive with Kwik Performance high mount A/C bracket.
GMPP engine controller 19201327

Prodigy / American Powertrain T56 magunun conversion kit $5600
includes shipping

69 Firebird, LS, Magnum , 3.73, 26", no console
TRGM-20006, New Tremec T56 Magnum for Kit for GM F1 with Console 2.66
1sr, .80 5th, .62 6th gear, rated for 700 lb/ft, kit includes:
New 700ft-lb rated Magnum 6-Speed,
DOM Driveshaft with cryo treated yoke and U-joints
Speedomter Conversion (electronic),
Bolt-In Cross Member,
Polyurethane Transmission Mount,
HD LS Stainless Pilot Bearing,
6-Speed Shift Knob,
Weatherseal Reverse Light Harness,
24-Month Warranty (see below),
24-Hour Customer First Technical Support,
Hardware Kit
SLUN-10001, shift handle for 67-69 F body
BHCV-20009 Quicktime LS Engine to GM Magnum, includes motor plate,
hardware, 6.1SFI Certified at 85,000psi
FWCV-10005,PROGRIP Billet Steel 168t Flywheel, LS engine to convert
traditional 11" clutch or OE Clutch
FLYWHEEL BOLTS, Grade 8 Race Ready, LS only
PROGRIP 1126HP FFCF CLUTCH KIT, INCLUDES HIGH CLAMP LOAD
LOW FLEX FORMED PRESSURE PLATE, 26-SPLINE FULL FACE CARBON
FIBER REBOUD HUB DISC, PILOT BEARING, ALIGNMENT TOOL,
645FT-LB RATED (15% Safety Margin)
#910 GM/Mopar Pressure Plate Bolt, Set of 6, Race Grade 8
CAGM-21003 LS/VIper/Magnum, Hydraulic Kit, 67-69 Camaro/Firebird,
includes:
Dual line concentric slave bearing,
Custom master cylinder,
Hydramax firewall mount,
Braided steel lines,
Reservoir kit,
Pedal Hardware,
Carbon Fiber over Stainless Heim Joint,
Installation Hardware,
Complete Instructions

69 F body Pedals and Z Bar kit, $178.00

69 F body hydroboost and Wilwood 260-8556-B master $900

Prodigy custom 69 Firebird A'C system with horizontal polished controller $1300

Prodigy Customs F Body Cool Package, $900



Thank You

Frank Serafine
Prodigy Customs
Pro Touring Specialist
www.ProdigyCustoms.com
407 832 1752 Direct line

[ProdigyCustoms]

funny how this is being turned on the op.thats the way it goes i guess:rolleyes:

I am by no means turning this on Keith. I have accepted responsibility a dozen times and made it clear it is not Keiths fault.

But it is not like it sounds either and that is important. I am about out of gas and could be checking on his missing parts. So that is what I am going to do now.

[ModernMuseum]

Frank,

1) I'm not trying to create a pissing match here. I'm a nice guy, you're a nice guy, we just have a problem with logistics.
2) Remove my signature from your emails please immediately, which states my employer and my employer's Clients.

I have already stated that everything you have stated has been factual, minus the aforementioned transaction dates.

[XcYZ]

The productivity has ended and both sides have had their say, so it's time to lock this one down.

I really hope the OP gets his parts in a reasonable time.