How much HP is needed

[coolwelder62]

What is the opinion of how much horse power is needed to for the ultimate PT car.

[Autokraft]

Alot :rofl:

[Vegas69]

Moving target...

[Big-Head]

Twin Turbo, All Aluminum, Big Block= 2500hp!!!

[speedjohnston]

This thread is just asking for trouble. :lol:
I honestly think its only possible to build your own ultimate. Too many variables. And besides, 2000hp is not ultimate if you can only use 400 of it.

[Ron in SoCal]

Depends on the intended use and how much the chassis can put down...

[XcYZ]

This will help.

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/images/stories/other-prod/traction-control.jpg

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/images/stories/other-prod/software-main-config.jpg

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/images/stories/other-prod/Traction-Control-Adjuster-up.jpg

[Track Junky]

Scott, I'd say minimum of 600 to 650 these days. I went from 500 to 620 and thought that I was going to be intimidated by the extra horse power on the track but actually it feels pretty good. Even with the 275/40's in the rear.

[67ragtp]

I think if you want to stay normally asperated anything above 700flywheel hp is probably gonna start getting pretty lumpy and the touring portion of "PT" might be a little uncomfortable to drive. If you can afford to go force induction then the big numbers come and the driveability is still there. Most PT cars these days are tied together with frame connectors/ full frame/ and roll bar/cages so I dont believe these power levels are to much for the chassis. Be prepared to spend time learning throttle control if you go big, heck 400 to 500 wheel hp rips these tires pretty easy.

Who knows what the ultimate power is, it sure would be nice to drive one of these cars with a twin turbo Nelson engine in it.

Rich

[Vegas69]

I'd take the better driver, less weight, and balanced chassis over the hp anyday. Of course that's within reason. I have 666hp/641ftlbs and find it very managable everywhere except getting out of the hole. Of course I'm pretty used to it after 5000 miles and over a dozen races. Finch is making 600/600 approx and he won RTTC. Speedtech killed it on the road course and has approx 500. Can't say it was a huge hp track, however. Then you have Stielow that can drive and has huge power. The more power you saddle up, the better shoe you better be. All this is Road Racing only. HP doesn't mean much in Autocross and even teh shorter speed stop challenges.

I do agree with Rich. You better watch yourself in how radical you get with your combination. A great race car makes a miserable street car with iffy reliablility. It's a balancing act. One guy will argue his race car is a great street car. Everyone has different ideals and tolerance.

[radrambler]

What is the opinion of how much horse power is needed to for the ultimate PT car.

I dont know but maybe John Parsons/Prodigy can tell you because they have stated they are building the ultimate Pt camaro... :lol:

Tom

[out2kayak]

Isn't HP like money? When you have a certain amount, you want to have more?

:cheers:

[Track Junky]

I based my opinion on a car that Scott would be driving and we all know how Scott will be useing his car. On the same note, I think anything over 700 is over kill.

If we were to answer this question as a general hp range for all pt cars I still think 600 to 650 range is a fair number to throw out there.

[Sieg]

Todd's car is probably around 5.3 lbs per crankshaft hp, mine is currently 8.7 lbs...........so if my car looses 1,300 lbs we're even and I'll save $4K on brakes, or if I slip 2250 lbs in his trunk I think I can take him as is. :unibrow:

[MODO Innovations]

I'd take the better driver, less weight, and balanced chassis over the hp anyday. Of course that's within reason. I have 666hp/641ftlbs and find it very managable everywhere except getting out of the hole. Of course I'm pretty used to it after 5000 miles and over a dozen races. Finch is making 600/600 approx and he won RTTC. Speedtech killed it on the road course and has approx 500. Can't say it was a huge hp track, however. Then you have Stielow that can drive and has huge power. The more power you saddle up, the better shoe you better be. All this is Road Racing only. HP doesn't mean much in Autocross and even teh shorter speed stop challenges.

I do agree with Rich. You better watch yourself in how radical you get with your combination. A great race car makes a miserable street car with iffy reliablility. It's a balancing act. One guy will argue his race car is a great street car. Everyone has different ideals and tolerance.

I think these are all very good points.

I saw an 80K mile stock LS1/T56 combo in a 69 Camaro stay within a 2/10's of Finch at TX to finish 2nd in the Non-Vendor Class. The car weighed about 3150 lbs. The front suspension was fabbed on Scott's jig and the rear was Scott's. The driver (Kevin-millertime179) was a hell of a wheel man. Which one was it? I think it was a combo of all three. Who knows what would have happened if there would have been an extra 100 hp under the hood.

[Romulus]

The correct answer is "More." :unibrow:

But in the real world....see previous post.

[Flash68]

Since you asked for the ultimate car with no mention of driver skill, it's gotta be a minimum of 600 hp, probably more, and that assumes a very well set up car.

And that is probably not gonna get it done on a longer track setup (road course) or possibly even one of the longer road-course style autoX courses that pop up.

If you pinned me to a # I'd say 700.

[coolwelder62]

Thank's for the good info. What are sub frame conector's and what are they used for.We haven't used them before.The only time I will be driving the car is on and off the trailer.I think my son Kevin will see most of the seat time since he is the one with the SCCA GT1 license.

[Mach2]

:lol:

[Track Junky]

Thank's for the good info. What are sub frame conector's and what are they used for.We haven't used them before.

I knew that hp question was odd coming from you :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Dont you have better things to do aside from stirring the pot :D :D :D

[coolwelder62]

I knew that hp question was odd coming from you :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Dont you have better things to do aside from stirring the pot :D :D :DNot trying to stir the pot.Just started working on the next project that will come after the 72 camaro.Started designing the suspension for that car.So I need to plan on how much HP we will be needing.Kevin and I are wanting to build a real nice car that will run close to the front runner's at these event's.:thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Not trying to stir the pot.Just started working on the next project that will come after the 72 camaro.Started designing the suspension for that car.So I need to plan on how much HP we will be needing.Kevin and I are wanting to build a real nice car that will run close to the front runner's at these event's.:thumbsup:

Woops, my bad :_paranoid What year car? Real nice PT or race car? You've installed subframe connectors before right? Subframe connectors will take some of the flex out of the body.

[Stielow]

A quote from one of my heroes Mark Donahue-

The Porsche 917-30, whose 1100 horsepower, the SCCA bitched, was killing In the Can-Am series. Donohue disagreed. “We’re far from having too much horsepower,” he asserted. “My definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.”

If you can control it is not too much HP. I would say there is a point of diminishing returns. The new blower engines are like big DC electric motors. Torque on demand. I have driven big twin turbo engine on tracks and the turbo lag can be tricky. I really like the power delivery of my blown 427. It is very linear and tractable.

I modeled another 100 HP in my car and was only worth 0.3 of a second at Spring Mountain Ranch due to the size of the track.

Mark

[Sieg]

Mark, what's your car weigh in at?

[Stielow]

:thumbsup: Mark, what's your car weigh in at?

Curb weight is 3450 lbs. It has A/C, sound deading, sound system and is a good cruiser :thumbsup:


Mark

[Track Junky]

A quote from one of my heroes Mark Donahue-

The Porsche 917-30, whose 1100 horsepower, the SCCA bitched, was killing In the Can-Am series. Donohue disagreed. “We’re far from having too much horsepower,” he asserted. “My definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.”

If you can control it is not too much HP. I would say there is a point of diminishing returns. The new blower engines are like big DC electric motors. Torque on demand. I have driven big twin turbo engine on tracks and the turbo lag can be tricky. I really like the power delivery of my blown 427. It is very linear and tractable.

I modeled another 100 HP in my car and was only worth 0.3 of a second at Spring Mountain Ranch due to the size of the track.

Mark

With all due respect,

Keep in mind, I dont think many of us could hold a candle to Mark Donhue's skills. On the same note, tracks like Thunderhill love the high horse power but tracks like Infineon and Buttonwillow would probably fare better with less.

Before anybody decides to go big horsepower, it would be best to be sure you are effectively using all hp that you currently have.

It takes a lot of time and tuning to get our cars to drive effectively on a road course and then you have the other variables such as tires and aero.

[coolwelder62]

Woops, my bad :_paranoid What year car? Real nice PT or race car? You've installed subframe connectors before right? Subframe connectors will take some of the flex out of the body.

It should be a real nice (PT/racecar.)I do know what sub frame conector's are.I have seen photo's of them being installed on DSE's web site.There coverage is great.

[Track Junky]

It should be a real nice (PT/racecar.)I do know what sub frame conector's are.I have seen photo's of them being installed on DSE's web site.There coverage is great.

DSE makes a great set of subframe connectors. I really like the straight through design. I bet this next car is going to be very cool. When you going to spill the beans?

[millertime179]

I honestly believe an LS2 with a cam headers and a tune from speartech would be capable of being pretty competitive if you really wheeled the car hard. although the LSX 454 or LS9 would be really cool an LS2 with top end work and headers would be capable and help keep the cost down.

[radrambler]

I honestly believe an LS2 with a cam headers and a tune from speartech would be capable of being pretty competitive if you really wheeled the car hard. although the LSX 454 or LS9 would be really cool an LS2 with top end work and headers would be capable and help keep the cost down.

with you driving i think thats all it would take..lil warm ls2 :thumbsup:

Tom

[DFRESH]

Scott---I'm not giving you back the crossmember--that's the thing that goes between the subframe rails and just in front of the subframe connectors, which are underneath the floorboards of the car which supports the rear most portion of the transmission.

:lol:

Thanks again man--good luck on the project. Will be watching for pics---those are the images you get from a point and click shutter device that preserves a moment in time which most women put in a thing called scap books (also some use these pics to make a living at various car magazines and are also members here).

Doug

[coolwelder62]

Scott---I'm not giving you back the crossmember--that's the thing that goes between the subframe rails and just in front of the subframe connectors, which are underneath the floorboards of the car which supports the rear most portion of the transmission.

:lol:

Thanks again man--good luck on the project. Will be watching for pics---those are the images you get from a point and click shutter device that preserves a moment in time which most women put in a thing called scap books (also some use these pics to make a living at various car magazines and are also members here).

DougDoug,I sure hope you don't start a thread about how much I charge to ship the crossmember to you. Then I might have gripe about the fact that you over paid me when you sent the payment.As for photo's of my project's.When I take photo's of my project's everytime the blast of powder go's off it cover's the car with black sute and then I have to stop and dust it off before I can shoot another photo.And I never get that black hood pulled over my head in time and always get a flash in my eye's.Then try scaning those hugh black & white shot's you have to let them dry before you can scan them and down load them.I am headed over the local KIA dealership to see some quality sub frame conector's and how they are installed.:lol:

[Stielow]

With all due respect,

Keep in mind, I don’t think many of us could hold a candle to Mark Donhue's skills. On the same note, tracks like Thunderhill love the high horse power but tracks like Infineon and Buttonwillow would probably fare better with less.

Before anybody decides to go big horsepower, it would be best to be sure you are effectively using all hp that you currently have.

It takes a lot of time and tuning to get our cars to drive effectively on a road course and then you have the other variables such as tires and aero.

Well I was joking.... I always liked that quote from Donahue. He was one of the reasons I got an engineering degree.

My second favorite quote is from Enzo Ferrari is “aerodynamics are for people who can’t build engines”

But, back to the question asked,

In the era of LS engines:

300 HP is very easy and cheap
400 HP is easy and relatively inexpensive
500 HP is fairly easy but more expensive
600 HP is fairly easy but even more expensive and you are starting to get more complicated and near the limit of stock parts
> 700 HP is very expensive and impacts all the systems of the car - fuel pumps, cooling, clutches, transmissions, etc......

My car has right at 750 HP as installed in the car. I have had to do a lot of integration work to get everything to work and stay cool. I can now do a 20 min. track session without anything overheating. But it was not easy.

I have learned more about driving by driving my 177 HP Solstice than driving these over power muscle cars. But its no fun to cruise Woodward in a 177 HP car.

If you are starting out I would suggest a LS2-3 with a cam to get you about 450 - 500 HP. Get a good cooling system, chassis, brakes, tires and fuel system and go have fun.

We are all doing this to have fun. It is no fun to go to the track and have your car break or go off. Build a nice car with a reliable drive train and go to the track and learn from the bottom up. Take a buddy you can learn from that will show you the line and technique. When I started I read every book I could on driving technique and just went to the track.

Another thing to remember is at big track with big power comes big speed which can lead to big accidents. Most of our “Pro-Touring” events are at tracks with moderate speed. So big power is not a major advantage. :lateral:


http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Red%20Devil/IMG_6903x.jpg


Stielow :rofl:

[Ron in SoCal]

Before anybody decides to go big horsepower, it would be best to be sure you are effectively using all hp that you currently have.

It takes a lot of time and tuning to get our cars to drive effectively on a road course and then you have the other variables such as tires and aero.

Great quote Gae. Reality is test and tune and find out what you and your car can handle. I'm starting w ~ 550 and that'll be enough until I know I need more. I'm also not building a tube frame race car, so aero will hit the wall (no vents, no splitter/extra downforce, no undercar stuff) and I'll be limited to an earthly number (<700).

Now the next car...hmmmm :yes:

[cdushane]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Red%20Devil/IMG_6903x.jpg


Stielow :rofl:

My new screensaver, awesome shot! :thumbsup:

[XcYZ]

...But its no fun to cruise Woodward in a 177 HP car...


Woodward... Reminds me of a story about crossing the street... :lol:






Great pic.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Red%20Devil/IMG_6903x.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Thank's Mark.You gave me the answer I was looking for.We all know you need a good stiff chassis w/sub frame conector's,Roll cage,or a qualtiy chassis.I just hate when you ask a question and folk's start talking at you and giving answer's that we already know.Thank's Mark.:thumbsup:Scott M.

[Steve1968LS2]

Since you asked for the ultimate car with no mention of driver skill, it's gotta be a minimum of 600 hp, probably more, and that assumes a very well set up car.

And that is probably not gonna get it done on a longer track setup (road course) or possibly even one of the longer road-course style autoX courses that pop up.

If you pinned me to a # I'd say 700.

I would agree.. I make just under 600 rwhp and it comes in handy at times.

But that car has to be able to put it down.. on some cars the right number is 500.. or 400.. Just depends.

[Vegas69]

Today I needed about 75hp to run the local SCCA event. :unibrow:

[Flash68]

I just hate when you ask a question and folk's start talking at you and giving answer's that we already know.

Scott, I don't get it. Why ask the question then? :question:

I would agree.. I make just under 600 rwhp and it comes in handy at times.

But that car has to be able to put it down.. on some cars the right number is 500.. or 400.. Just depends.

Absolutely. I saw Stielow's car put down that 750 hp pretty damn well, but many others would not and cannot!

[coolwelder62]

[QUOTE=Flash68;340623]Scott, I don't get it. Why ask the question then? :question:

The question I was interested in was how much HP was being used.I already know about, chassis stiffness,Sub frame connector's,Roll cages,and full chassis's.I am sorry to have upset you.

[Flash68]

[QUOTE=Flash68;340623]Scott, I don't get it. Why ask the question then? :question:

The question I was interested in was how much HP was being used.I already know about, chassis stiffness,Sub frame connector's,Roll cages,and full chassis's.I am sorry to have upset you.

We all know you know your sh!t when it comes to suspension/chassis stuff... your subframe is probably what I'd buy if I were going aftermarket. And you have not upset I can assure you. :cheers:

[skatinjay27]

Scott, I don't get it. Why ask the question then? :question:



Absolutely. I saw Stielow's car put down that 750 hp pretty damn well, but many others would not and cannot!
doesent red devil have traction control?

[Stielow]

doesent red devil have traction control?

Yes, my right foot :rofl:

All it has is ABS and 830 ft lbs of torque...

I have driven a number of vehicles with traction control systems and it makes the car easier to drive off the corner. On most cars I turn it off if I can. I have not driven a good race system yet. Could be interesting.

Mark

[Sieg]

Global warming at it's pinnacle. :unibrow: :thumbsup:

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq118/Stielow65/Red%20Devil/IMG_6903x.jpg

Traction control on hot rods.........yuck! Takes all the fun and skill out of car control IMO.

[coolwelder62]

My son Kevin and I have started planing our next build.We were going to do something togather along w/ my 2 younger son's.And we were wonding how power some of the really good PT. car's had.This way we could start working on our budget,Car choice,suspension choice & design,engine & trans choice.We would like to have a competive car when we get it completed.Thank's to everybody who chimed in.:thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Scott, I think cam selection, transmission gear ratios and rear gear ratios would be a big thing to consider and to ask what they are running. Kevin could probably give you some good input on that. I'm sure you already asked him how the car felt but have you asked him how the gearing and torque curve felt?

[Ron in SoCal]

My son Kevin and I have started planing our next build.We were going to do something togather along w/ my 2 younger son's.And we were wonding how power some of the really good PT. car's had.This way we could start working on our budget,Car choice,suspension choice & design,engine & trans choice.We would like to have a competive car when we get it completed.Thank's to everybody who chimed in.:thumbsup:

Scott, I think cam selection, transmission gear ratios and rear gear ratios would be a big thing to consider and to ask what they are running. Kevin could probably give you some good input on that. I'm sure you already asked him how the car felt but have you asked him how the gearing and torque curve felt?


Scott - I woud add....Put the COW on a Diet! Acid dip the body, get an alum front clip (right Gae?) or CF, do a full tube frame, the thinnest custom sheet metal floor you can build. Then add gearing as above, gobs of HP and the Scott Mock suspension set-up + wide front wheels/lexan windows which are your signature moves. Then get some killer Penskes and track tune as much as you can.

And quit bitchen at Dave...:lol:

[Vegas69]

Scott - I woud add....Put the COW on a Diet! Acid dip the body, get an alum front clip (right Gae?) or CF, do a full tube frame, the thinnest custom sheet metal floor you can build. Then add gearing as above, gobs of HP and the Scott Mock suspension set-up + wide front wheels/lexan windows which are your signature moves. Then get some killer Penskes and track tune as much as you can.

And quit bitchen at Dave...:lol:

Or just buy a Z06 and save a leg, arm, and left nut.:rofl:

[coolwelder62]

Who's Dave.:_paranoid

[coolwelder62]

What are the wt.# saving of using Alum. frt. clip over Steel.If I were going to drive then losing Wt.# on my end would be the answer.But since Kevin will be driving that's not a problem.:thumbsup:

[millertime179]

Or just buy a Z06 and save a leg, arm, and left nut.:rofl:

whats the fun in that?! Dont get me wrong they are badass cars and id like to have a new Z06. But how many new corvettes do you see on the road everyday and how many badass pro touring rides do you see on the road everyday? And its way more fun to drive a car you built yourself that is capable of running with or beating a new Z06.
just my .02
kevin

[rogue]

all depends on power to weight ratio, my mini taught me that.

lil suckers for sale.

[Flash68]

And quit bitchen at Dave...:lol:

Who's Dave.:_paranoid

:lol: I'm Dave... Ron was just being my big brother here. Haha. It's all good Scott. I just get a little mouthy sometimes. :D

Carry on! :lateral:

[coolwelder62]

Cool Dave.Sometimes I can't tell when someone is joking.Sorry:thumbsup:

[Steve1968LS2]

Cool Dave.Sometimes I can't tell when someone is joking.Sorry:thumbsup:

What's that supposed to mean!!!!??!!???



























:rofl:

[Ron in SoCal]

Cool Dave.Sometimes I can't tell when someone is joking.Sorry:thumbsup:

Eyes teasin' you Scotty! :cheers:

[Vegas69]

whats the fun in that?! Dont get me wrong they are badass cars and id like to have a new Z06. But how many new corvettes do you see on the road everyday and how many badass pro touring rides do you see on the road everyday? And its way more fun to drive a car you built yourself that is capable of running with or beating a new Z06.
just my .02
kevin

Not my point. Your exact view is what led me down this rode when I built my car. Not many cars around here are capable of taking out a Z06. Maybe none....

[DFRESH]

Or just buy a Z06 and save a leg, arm, and left nut.:rofl:

If I were serious about competing---this seems like the slam dunk thing to do. I wouldn't enjoy driving it as much as the Camaro though---not by a long shot. There is just something about taking these cars around the track, auto X, whatever--that is such a blast. On top of that, we get to drive them to events, around town, road trips, etc----you just can't beat that. My opinion only of course.

Doug

[DFRESH]

:lol: I'm Dave... Ron was just being my big brother here. Haha. It's all good Scott. I just get a little mouthy sometimes. :D

Carry on! :lateral:


"The sea was angry that day my friends, like an old man trying to return soup at a deli".

Costanza.

[Track Junky]

What are the wt.# saving of using Alum. frt. clip over Steel.If I were going to drive then losing Wt.# on my end would be the answer.But since Kevin will be driving that's not a problem.:thumbsup:

The whole 9 yrds will save you 100 lbs.

[Track Junky]

If I were serious about competing---this seems like the slam dunk thing to do. I wouldn't enjoy driving it as much as the Camaro though---not by a long shot. There is just something about taking these cars around the track, auto X, whatever--that is such a blast. On top of that, we get to drive them to events, around town, road trips, etc----you just can't beat that. My opinion only of course.

Doug

X2, wheres the fun. buying a vette would be too easy. Unless you got a smokin' deal on a thrashed one that you had to rebuild :thumbsup:

[Track Junky]

Scott - I woud add....Put the COW on a Diet! Acid dip the body, get an alum front clip (right Gae?) or CF, do a full tube frame, the thinnest custom sheet metal floor you can build. Then add gearing as above, gobs of HP and the Scott Mock suspension set-up + wide front wheels/lexan windows which are your signature moves. Then get some killer Penskes and track tune as much as you can.

And quit bitchen at Dave...:lol:

Weight and tires play a huge part. Take a look at the times some of the little 200 hp Honda's and Acura's are laying down at Buttonwillow 13CW on the Speed Ventures site some time.

If it were me I'd go front and rear lexan and leave the side glass. That way you can still roll your windows up and down. I heard the euro bumpers were a bitch but that another good place to loose weight. Next step for me is rear lexan and aluminum trunk lid. Then I'm putting my battery behind the passenger seat.

.......Like anybody really needs to tell Scott where to take the weight off a car......:rolleyes: . I think the Sunoko Camaro was 2700 lbs.

[Jr]

Yes, my right foot :rofl:

All it has is ABS and 830 ft lbs of torque...

I have driven a number of vehicles with traction control systems and it makes the car easier to drive off the corner. On most cars I turn it off if I can. I have not driven a good race system yet. Could be interesting.

Mark

Mark,
Rear wheel or flywheel torque there?

[camcojb]

Yes, my right foot :rofl:

All it has is ABS and 830 ft lbs of torque...

I have driven a number of vehicles with traction control systems and it makes the car easier to drive off the corner. On most cars I turn it off if I can. I have not driven a good race system yet. Could be interesting.

Mark
I remember what the SL65 Mercedes does when you turn it off and go past what it wants you to do..................... :wow: :rofl: Very interesting movements at that point.

Jody

[Steve1968LS2]

Not my point. Your exact view is what led me down this rode when I built my car. Not many cars around here are capable of taking out a Z06. Maybe none....

Speak for yourself.. although I'm not talking ZR1.. lol

[Vegas69]

Oh, I forgot about you. :lol: :unibrow:

[coolwelder62]

The whole 9 yrds will save you 100 lbs. Gaestano,100 lbs. would be nice.I wonder what the diff between alum. hood and CF hood.My sunoco camaro wt 2820#w/o a driver.But it had no,AC,sound deading,carpet,back seat,lexsan 1/4 windows & reg.CF hood,header,cowl panels.CF sparco seats. I really think right now Mark Stielow has built the the best all around PT.car to date.It's light, quick,very driveable in traffic,has Radio,AC,Comfortable seats,sound deading for quiet ride,Very,Very nice paint job,IHMO no stupid body mods.

[Stielow]

I really think right now Mark Stielow has built the the best all around PT.car to date.It's light, quick,very driveable in traffic,has Radio,AC,Comfortable seats,sound deading for quiet ride,Very,Very nice paint job,IHMO no stupid body mods.

Thanks for the compliment :thumbsup:

I drove the car last week. No drama started right up and idles at 650 RPM.

Mark,
Rear wheel or flywheel torque there?

Flywheel - I never trust rear wheel numbers. A Dynajet is a different deal from a Mustang dyno.

Mark

[Track Junky]

Gaestano,100 lbs. would be nice.I wonder what the diff between alum. hood and CF hood.My sunoco camaro wt 2820#w/o a driver.But it had no,AC,sound deading,carpet,back seat,lexsan 1/4 windows & reg.CF hood,header,cowl panels.CF sparco seats. I really think right now Mark Stielow has built the the best all around PT.car to date.It's light, quick,very driveable in traffic,has Radio,AC,Comfortable seats,sound deading for quiet ride,Very,Very nice paint job,IHMO no stupid body mods.

You need to be careful with the aluminum it creases very easily.I had fender covers on the car and was working in the engine compartment. The weight of my body and resting my forearms on the tops of the fenders created a couple very shallow creases. That wont keep me from buying the aluminum again though.

2820 is pretty impressive.

I agree, Mark has a sweet ride.The addition of the ABS was just icing on the cake.

[coolwelder62]

I don't know if alum. fender's will work w/me.280# leaning on an alum. fender might not work so well.I might want to find a 60's model impala.Little heavy steel in one of those.

[WSSix]

What weight savings can you get going with a composite front end like cf or fiberglass?


Transmissions also help the car go faster if selected correctly. Has anyone built a serious version of the 6 speed auto and road raced it? Should be easier to drive than a manual though not as fun in my opinion. You sound like you're more interested in competing and winning then simply having fun so paddle shift could be a viable option.