427 SBC, American Speed?

[buck171]

I'm looking for a 427ci small block chevy with about 550-600hp for an early nova. The 427 from American Speed seems like a good set-up. Anyone have any experience with them, good or bad? Thanks for any input.

[kilrcam]

I'm looking for a 427ci small block chevy with about 550-600hp for an early nova. The 427 from American Speed seems like a good set-up. Anyone have any experience with them, good or bad? Thanks for any input.

I do know where you can buy a complete turn key and dyno tuned engine for cheaper than that. Check out www.speedomotive.com . Nothing wrong with american speed, but i do know guys running speed-o-motive engines and they seem to be happy with them.

Brad

[PTAddict]

I personally had a very bad experience with Speed O Motive. The 540 big block they built me had so many things wrong with it that it was impossible to believe. I ended up reusing only the block, crank, and rods, and had the rest rebuilt from scratch, after which the motor made 150 HP more.

[kilrcam]

I personally had a very bad experience with Speed O Motive. The 540 big block they built me had so many things wrong with it that it was impossible to believe. I ended up reusing only the block, crank, and rods, and had the rest rebuilt from scratch, after which the motor made 150 HP more.

It's just like anything, there can be a lemon in everything. Like i said i know guys running them with no problems. When the 502 was the hot ticket a good friend of mine bought a ZZ502 and upon fireup and the first 5 min of run time it manage to throw a rod out the side of the block, never took it over 2000rpm. The only thing he put on was his carb he had bought. It happens.

[Speedster]

Hey buck171 -

Give Tom Nelson a call at Nelson Racing Engines (818) 998-5593.
Tell him what you are looking for and he will build it. He is a sponsor of this site and does nothing but top notch work and will stand behind it.

P.S. I see that this is your first post. Welcome to the board !! :)

[Speedster]

buck171 -

Look under the Classifieds section.
You will see Namtra is trying to sell a 400+ hp 350 for a killer price.
Just throw on some power adder and you would have your 550-600 hp for a great price. Just a thought.

[ProdigyCustoms]

You can't beat a Bill Mitchell 427 for the money and warranty. I have 2 of them in my camp, one dynoed at 546HP, the other 561HP E mail me at [email protected].

[TOM NELSON]

If Interested We Can Build You A Stout 434 Small Block Making 600 Hp For Around 11.000.00 And The Components Used Are Top Notch Dart Block Callies Crank Fully Cnc'ed 11x Brodixs Going 320+.i'd Be Glad To Build It 818-998-5593 Tom

[mazspeed]

Hey Tom. I'm curious about the same thing. What's the difference for a Fuel Injected motor with an aluminum block?
I'm always looking for different power options.
Thanks
Mike

[camcojb]

It's just like anything, there can be a lemon in everything. Like i said i know guys running them with no problems. When the 502 was the hot ticket a good friend of mine bought a ZZ502 and upon fireup and the first 5 min of run time it manage to throw a rod out the side of the block, never took it over 2000rpm. The only thing he put on was his carb he had bought. It happens.

If you do a search for Speedomotive on most all car sites you will find more horror stories than you can imagine. I'd say 10:1 bad to good. I have my own story about them but I don't feel like typing it out. I would avoid them like the plague.

Any company that sells you a 750 HP big block "dynoed" engine and will not guarantee it makes even within 50% of that (plus doesn't dyno them anyway other than on a computer program) does not get my vote. The amount of poor machine work, balance issues, oil useage, etc. will amaze you.

Jody

[4mm]

If you do a search for Speedomotive on most all car sites you will find more horror stories than you can imagine. I'd say 10:1 bad to good. I have my own story about them but I don't feel like typing it out. I would avoid them like the plague.

Any company that sells you a 750 HP big block "dynoed" engine and will not guarantee it makes even within 50% of that (plus doesn't dyno them anyway other than on a computer program) does not get my vote. The amount of poor machine work, balance issues, oil useage, etc. will amaze you.

Jody

I agree with the above as well.

Frank

[ProdigyCustoms]

Throw Wheeler in the same group as Speed O motive. Bought a 496 / 540HP motor, was supposed to watch the dyno run, got there and it was crated and ready with a sheet. Here ya go! I told the customer no, but he took it anyway, even though the exhast ports were never fired. Long story short, could mot break 300 on a chassis dyno, blow by like a you know what. Finally pulled it after they told him to shove it. Found 8 thou cylinder taper in it. Pistons were rocking over and dumping off the compression, scuffed to death, horrible piece of dung!

[PTAddict]

It's just like anything, there can be a lemon in everything. Like i said i know guys running them with no problems. When the 502 was the hot ticket a good friend of mine bought a ZZ502 and upon fireup and the first 5 min of run time it manage to throw a rod out the side of the block, never took it over 2000rpm. The only thing he put on was his carb he had bought. It happens.

Don't want to beat this dead horse too much further, but my motor was not a lemon, the builder was a lemon. There were more tolerances in the engine out of spec than in spec! The most basic rules of engine building, that you would follow yourself in your own garage, were not followed. As Camcojb said, avoid them.

[camcojb]

There's a reason why a good engine builder like Wheel to Wheel and Nelson Racing are more money. Part of it is the quality of the parts used and the rest is the labor involved to check all the clearances and precise assembly.


I was told by a reliable source that the engine builder at SpeedoMotive had to assemble 2 engines a day to start to make any money. Now I have assembled several engines, and my average time is 35-40 hours to do a complete assembly if you check everything that should be checked, degree cam, verify valve train, pushrod length, valve to piston clearance, all clearances, etc. So either a place like that is giving you several days labor for free or they aren't checking and then just bolting them together assuming they're right.

Jody

[markss28]

I at one time thought about buying a Speedomotive engine but seeing the 383 they built for project g28 in popular hotrodding was disapointing. It barely ran 13s and that was after some serious tuning done later by some one else. Any way I have gone 13.5s with a stock style small block comp street cam long tubes gears, performer intake and 600cfm carb. I figure I would just build my own engine and use quality parts and get more out of it for less money.

[camcojb]

Sorry to get off track, but I have not heard good or bad about American Speed.


Jody

[TOM NELSON]

Going aluminum will add 3600.00 to the cost and injected with sheetmetal manifold will add another 5400.00 .We just finished a all aluminum 434 injected small block 9.8 to 1 compression the motor made 635 hp at 6300 rpm and 590 ft lbs at 4900 rpm 500 lbs was in by 2900 rpm so basically 20 grand gets you an all aluminum injected 434 small block dynoed ready to go

[buck171]

If Interested We Can Build You A Stout 434 Small Block Making 600 Hp For Around 11.000.00 And The Components Used Are Top Notch Dart Block Callies Crank Fully Cnc'ed 11x Brodixs Going 320+.i'd Be Glad To Build It 818-998-5593 Tom

Tom
I've noticed there's a range of cube sizes for the big inch small blocks, 421, 427, 434, 454, to name a few used by different builders. I've initially been looking for a 427 mainly because its a cubic inch chevy has used in the past. What are the advantages/disadvantages, besides more cubes more power, to the different cube sizes? Is it just builder preference? Would you build a 427 if that's what I decided to stick with? Thanks, Steve.

[TOM NELSON]

421/427/434/454 allright a 421 is a 4.155 bore with a 3.875 this is usually done on a stock block .A 427 is a 4.125 bore with a 4.0 stroke a 434 is the same accept it has a .030 larger bore and a 454 is done a two ways a 4.250 bore with a 4 crank or a 4.185 bore with a 4.125 crank.This is my opinion on these combos.If your going to build a 427 or 434 you build it with a 9.325 deck height block which is +300 tall deck.Also going with this type of block you run a raised cam journal +.391 this in turn picks the cam up away from the connecting rods so there is no clearancing done to the rods also .Another trick I do is run a 55mm cam hole which in turn you can make a faster camshaft ramp because its larger and not affect the reliability of it.So 427 or 434 as far as I'm concerned its the same motor just make sure it has these features.the 9.325 deck allows you to use a 6.200 long rod which makes your rod ratio much nicer.The 454's i would steer clear of one has to much bore for the casting meaning the bore center of a smallblock chevy is always the same so the material between the cylinders is not enough on the 4.250 deal not to mention the gasket sealing surface especially with two exvalves right there.the 4.185/4.125 is a better way but thats alot of stroke which runs into cylinder wall wear.I think the 427/434 tall deck is the way to go.and i would be glad to build it either way.Thanks Tom

[NTSOS]

Tom,

What would be the pros and cons of using a Chevy 24502495 - Tall Deck Aluminum V8 Block for a 427 turbo motor as opposed to using some of the other aftermarket aluminum blocks......I like the little bow tie on it! :)

John

[markss28]

Sorry to get off track, but I have not heard good or bad about American Speed.


Jody

I think American Speed is a good engine company. Of course there are others out there that can do the same thing. Either way you are going to have to consider cost and reputation. Nelson has a great rep but so does American. I Say pray about it and then Eni Meani Miney Moe should just about make that decision clear. And the 427 small block is the way I would go. Just because it sounds cool to say that your engine is a 427 small block. Plus it should rev a bit higher then the other big cube small blocks.

[buck171]

421/427/434/454 allright a 421 is a 4.155 bore with a 3.875 this is usually done on a stock block .A 427 is a 4.125 bore with a 4.0 stroke a 434 is the same accept it has a .030 larger bore and a 454 is done a two ways a 4.250 bore with a 4 crank or a 4.185 bore with a 4.125 crank.This is my opinion on these combos.If your going to build a 427 or 434 you build it with a 9.325 deck height block which is +300 tall deck.Also going with this type of block you run a raised cam journal +.391 this in turn picks the cam up away from the connecting rods so there is no clearancing done to the rods also .Another trick I do is run a 55mm cam hole which in turn you can make a faster camshaft ramp because its larger and not affect the reliability of it.So 427 or 434 as far as I'm concerned its the same motor just make sure it has these features.the 9.325 deck allows you to use a 6.200 long rod which makes your rod ratio much nicer.The 454's i would steer clear of one has to much bore for the casting meaning the bore center of a smallblock chevy is always the same so the material between the cylinders is not enough on the 4.250 deal not to mention the gasket sealing surface especially with two exvalves right there.the 4.185/4.125 is a better way but thats alot of stroke which runs into cylinder wall wear.I think the 427/434 tall deck is the way to go.and i would be glad to build it either way.Thanks Tom

Could you give be an idea of the block,heads and internals used. Would it be complete from carb to oil pan? What kind of price range and shipping prices would we be talking? Thanks, Steve.

[TOM NELSON]

I would use a Dart 9.325 splayed cap block with rocket pan rail.Callies 4340 forged crankshaft,Callies rods,Je pistons,Comp Cams custom roller cam and lifters,Cloyes chain,Clevite h-series bearings,Fel-pro gaskets,ARP hardware,Fully cnced Brodix 11xs or fully cnced 227 AFRs ,Edelbrock Super Victor ,850 holley,Billet msd distrib,Sfi harmonic damper,Comp Roller Rockers,Engraved polished aluminum valve covers.carb to pan it will cost11.500.00 shipping is usually 300 to 500

[TravisB]

that is a very good price considering you know the workmanship is the best in the buisness!

[buck171]

I would use a Dart 9.325 splayed cap block with rocket pan rail.Callies 4340 forged crankshaft,Callies rods,Je pistons,Comp Cams custom roller cam and lifters,Cloyes chain,Clevite h-series bearings,Fel-pro gaskets,ARP hardware,Fully cnced Brodix 11xs or fully cnced 227 AFRs ,Edelbrock Super Victor ,850 holley,Billet msd distrib,Sfi harmonic damper,Comp Roller Rockers,Engraved polished aluminum valve covers.carb to pan it will cost11.500.00 shipping is usually 300 to 500

Thanks for all the info Tom. Will this run on pump gas? And do you offer a warrenty for the engine? It would be going in a 62 Nova that I'll be taking down to Detroit Speed at the begining of this year. I've been in the process of gathering info on different options I have for 427's for this car. How long would it take to assemble? Thanks again.

[Speedster]

Buck -
You can't go wrong with stuff from Tom Nelson. The quality is undisputed. He used to get ragged on for being slow (if you knew how much time he spends on stuff as unglamorous as head gaskets...) but I have a fairly complex build-up and he got the long block and everything else put together about 3-4 weeks ahead of schedule and impressed the heck out of me. (The holdup for the dyno testing is a one-off ATI balancer that is taking 6-7 weeks to hack out of a forging) I could even call him during lunch when he was stuffing his face and he would stop feeding and answer my questions or change a component if we thought that it would work better. You just don't find that kind of customer care most places - especially since we are at opposite ends of the country. Oh yeah, and if you can, he likes you to go to his shop and watch your motor being dyno tested. If not, he will film it for you.
Anyway, just my .02 cents.

[Speedster]

Hey Buck -
One other thing.
You may want to look at Scott Gulbranson's (the owner of Lateral-g) link to his '69 Camaro. from Scott's Tech Sheet:

"Engine: Nelson Racing Engines 434 small block. Dyno'd at 583 hp at 6,400 and 550 ft-lbs of tq at 4,800. It has 10:1 CR, Dart Iron Eagle tall deck block, Cola 4" billet 4340 crank, 6.200" 4340 H-beam rods, JE pistons, custom ground Comp Cams solid roller, ported aluminum Pro-Topline 235cc heads (large intake runners for boost), Moroso fabbed pan, mini-starter, ported and matched Dart single plane intake unique for the tall deck, Victor water pump, remote oil filter..."

[NTSOS]

Tom,

Let me try the question again. :)

What would be the pros and cons of using a Chevy 24502495 - Tall Deck Aluminum V8 Block for a 427 turbo motor as opposed to using some of the other aftermarket aluminum blocks?

It also has the splayed main cap arrangement, wide pan rails, raised/big block cam and 9.00 - 9.500 deck.

Thanks! :bow:

John

[TOM NELSON]

I Haven't used the bowtie block on that deal.I found in the past the gm stuff to be very good with the exception of the lifter bores from years ago which I'm told have been fixed.There Castings look really nice.The one thing I can warn you is on a Dart block And it may be the same on the Bowtie is that if you look at the sleeves where they have flats on them on the corners theres a little water port that the gasket sometimes doesn't cover very good and the water will fiqure eight around all the sleeves and run up the studs to give you a milk shake.So I'd watch for this.

[TOM NELSON]

2 months to build as of today.Yes 91 octane, I don't offer any warrantys per say but i stand behind my work 100% so if there was an issue i would take care of it .I will guarntee It will run perfect on the dyno,and invite you to come down and watch it make the number.Thanks Tom

[NTSOS]

Thanks Tom! I'll be checking in with you in about a year or so for a twin turbo. I still have to assemble my C4 chassis and I'm old and slow! :)

[buck171]

2 months to build as of today.Yes 91 octane, I don't offer any warrantys per say but i stand behind my work 100% so if there was an issue i would take care of it .I will guarntee It will run perfect on the dyno,and invite you to come down and watch it make the number.Thanks Tom

All the info been a big help Tom. Once I get a more accurate time frame for taking the car down to DSE I'll now when I need the engine. It sounds like you have a great rep and do great work which is what I've been looking for. Thanks again, Steve.

[chuntington]

most of the people building ultimas over here in the uk are using AS engiens! they are what the factroy "recomend". there have been quite a few reocring problems (most with overheating thanks to poor carb setup).

try www.pistonheads.com/gassing/ and go into the Ulitma section. ask around in there as everyone is very friendly.

hope this helps some.

Chris.

[427ls1]

check out this web site: www.millarengines.com, in the gallery there is a section of street machines with some nice engines. there is a dyno sheet from a customer with a 427. Is actually only 427 .030 over. Pump fuel engine for his going to be every day driver Chevelle. There is also a fuel injected 604 Donovan in a '55 chevy

[DAWG]

try here:
http://www.strokerengine.com/strokerengines.html
I bought a 383 from him and its great

[jeff s]

i've seen some outrageous (as high as 1.14) correction factors on AS engine dyno sheets. You get what you pay for. We build engines too.
Jeff S
www.schwartzperformance.com

[Blown353]

i've seen some outrageous (as high as 1.14) correction factors on AS engine dyno sheets.
www.schwartzperformance.com

1.14?!?!? Who do they think they are, Westech? :P

[budlight]

I have a 427 Motown 350 journal size solid roller motor with Dart 227 cc heads.

I bought the Bill Mitchell block and rotating assembly kit with 20 cc dished pistons. I'm running 62 cc heads and .041 quench

I totally agree on getting the tall block it would save the hassles of clearancing the rods and cam lobes. If I had it to over again I would have bought the 4.125 stroker crank. You might as well make it a 441 or 447 ci. The cost is the same. The .030 overbore to get 434 ci was a $150 option.

I went from hot rodded 383 to 427 and traction is a real problem with these 600 hp class motors. Mine just pounds the 7000 rev limiter in the first two gears if you floor it going slow.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Tom
Whats the max cubic inch you would build with a standard deck block ?? With what stroke and bore to get to those cubes ?

I have a Dart Little M block, but its standard deck height. I was originally going to build it as a procharged 406, but decided to go naturally aspirated ( due to a change in budget for the motor), so I figured I would just build a big inch small block. If my original plan was to go pure big inch small block, I would have gotten the raised deck, but since buying the new block, my plans have changed.

[TOM NELSON]

I Don't Like To Run Over 3.875 On The Crank With A 9.025 Deck So I Think A 422 Is All I Would Run 4.165 3.875.heads And Cam Are Your Biggest Players Also Spent Money On A Good Carb.i Think The Carb Shop Or Braswell Are The Two Best I Ever Used.i've Seen 70 Hp Difference Between A Carb Built By Above Over An Off The Shelf.if You Do Buy Off The Shelf A Holley Hp 1000 Will Be A Good Choice.remember Na Means Evrything Has To Work Togethor.hope That Helps.

[chuntington]

first of all i would like to say from what i have seen toms work is amazing!!

second of all do you think you could build a 700bhp (American speed equalling or beating) SBC tom??? it would have to be on nice pump (93 octane) but doesn't have to be too streetable! hehe

if so what would one go for? and what bits would you use??

thnaks Chris

[nitrorocket]

If interested, I know someone with a SBC FOR SALE!

Short story:

427" SBC
DART TALL DECK BLOCK, 9.3" DECK!!
18 DEGREE DART HEADS
CROWER SHAFT ROCKERS
COMP OFFSET LIFTERS
10.5:1 JE 2618 PISTONS
CROWER 6.125" BILLET RODS
CALLIES 4340 4" CRANK
ACCEL GEN 7 SEQUENTIAL EFI
PUMPGAS MOTOR
3000 MILES
$20K NEW

TURN KEY!!! ACCESSORIES AND ALL!

He wants $11K.

[TOM NELSON]

We Have A Combo For This. The Motor Is Spendy Though.i Base The Motor Off Brodix's Bd2000 Head Which Is A Symetrical Port Head 400 Cfm At 700 Lift.i Use A 4.185 Bore And 4.125 Crank On A 9.500 Deck Block.that Makes 454 Cubes.the Motor Makes 765 Hp On 93 Oct.compression Is 11.5 To 1 .it's A Sick Puppy When You Want Basically The Baddest Na Pump Gas Sbc.22.000 Is What It Cost'sturn Key
Thanks For The Good Words.it's Still Streetable But It Definately Sounds Nasty.

[chuntington]

We Have A Combo For This. The Motor Is Spendy Though.i Base The Motor Off Brodix's Bd2000 Head Which Is A Symetrical Port Head 400 Cfm At 700 Lift.i Use A 4.185 Bore And 4.125 Crank On A 9.500 Deck Block.that Makes 454 Cubes.the Motor Makes 765 Hp On 93 Oct.compression Is 11.5 To 1 .it's A Sick Puppy When You Want Basically The Baddest Na Pump Gas Sbc.22.000 Is What It Cost'sturn Key
Thanks For The Good Words.it's Still Streetable But It Definately Sounds Nasty.

WOW thats very nice! lol

how much torque wil that thing make? and what is the max rpm??

thanks Chris.

[Speedster]

WOW thats very nice! lol
how much torque wil that thing make? and what is the max rpm??
thanks Chris.

You can't go wrong with Tom's stuff. He has fuel pumps that put out more torque than a Briggs and Stratton...:lol: