69 Camaro subframe channel to lower

[northwests]

Has anyone ever considered moving the front subframe up into the body to lower the front end without changing suspension geometry. I know there are many other things to consider as we do this to trucks all the time. It would be nice to not have that frame hanging below the body also. Just curious if anyone has ever seen it or have any info on it at all. Thanks

[Blake Foster]

Project Unfair is done this way, they moved the entire floor pan up and then attached the sub in the normal manor with out body mounts i think.

[northwests]

Project Unfair is done this way, they moved the entire floor pan up and then attached the sub in the normal manor with out body mounts i think.

Thanks I will check that out.

[northwests]

They just raised the whole floor up 1" and used a reg aftermarket subframe looks like. I was thinking just channeling the floor and raising the frame into it apprximately 2" from its current location or even weld the subframe into the body. Any thoughts people?

[fletcherscustoms]

What you will run into is clearance issues, trans tunnel, hood clearance, etc. You could raise the floor pan a inch and run no subframe bushings, and have about a 2" upward location of the subframe, but its gonna take mods to the firewall, trans tunnel, pedal location will have to be adjusted, along with making sure the motor will clear the hood when closed. Physically it can be done, but my next question would be why?

[Track Junky]

I intend on channeling mine for phase 3 build. The nice thing about channeling is you will be able to keep suspension travel. I'm only doing 1 1/2". I'm going to raise the front radiator support mounts up, lower the mid mount, and fab for rear mount then hat channel it in. Depending on what steering set up you have you may have to customize. If your running a stock brake booster it may hit valve covers so you need to decide what your going to exchange that with and there are many options. The front fender wells will need to be cut where they meet the frame. Your hood will drop closer to your motor, LS might be OK. Your going to have to raise trans tunnel and may have to channel for exhaust system. Wait, it gets better, depending on tires, wheels, and backspace, you may have to stretch fenders and quarter panels. I want to keep my track width so thats where I'm headed. I probably left a couple of things out that have to do with firewall dropping but you get the idea.

[Vegas69]

Buy yourself a Corvette and save 100k. :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

Brings to mind a statement I even say to myself sometimes.

Just because you can... doesn't mean you should.

You can get these cars plenty low without all the hassle you're going to run into.

[Blake Foster]

Brings to mind a statement I even say to myself sometimes.

Just because you can... doesn't mean you should.

You can get these cars plenty low without all the hassle you're going to run into.

x2 :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Brings to mind a statement I even say to myself sometimes.

Just because you can... doesn't mean you should.

You can get these cars plenty low without all the hassle you're going to run into.

What he said...

My car is pretty low. It has DSE's half-height bushings/mounts and that is about as much hassle as I would be willing to go through. If my car had huge wheels it would look just like Doug's. Which brings me to my next point, if you just want a killer stance Doug's car, which you can search for by the title "Apollo 13" proves that you don't need to go wild trying to move the subframe up. For non competitive events our cars both do fine. I don't notice the suspension bottoming out, or really have any other related problems. Basically the subframe height has never been an issue. Exhaust clearance, however, is the problem. And you're going to have problems unless you raise the floor, and if you do, you better pick out your seats, pedals, and steering column to accommodate you because you're likely going to have a lack of headroom.

Matt

[Track Junky]

Buy yourself a Corvette and save 100k. :unibrow:

LOL, no kiddin'!! What can I say. I'm stubborn as a mule!!

[northwests]

Buy yourself a Corvette and save 100k. :unibrow:

If I were an 80 year old man and wasn't getting laid anymore I might, until then this car will be badass-and holy crap if I had a 100g the world would be in trouble.

[northwests]

Brings to mind a statement I even say to myself sometimes.

Just because you can... doesn't mean you should.

You can get these cars plenty low without all the hassle you're going to run into.

Your idea of low enough may not be my idea of low enough. The fact that so many of these rides these days have airride to get the stance they want is a travesty. Engineer it to be what you envision, build it that way. I love the stance of these with all the air out. Don't get me wrong I am a big supporter of airride as I have done it for years, but I want the stance without the air.

[northwests]

I intend on channeling mine for phase 3 build. The nice thing about channeling is you will be able to keep suspension travel. I'm only doing 1 1/2". I'm going to raise the front radiator support mounts up, lower the mid mount, and fab for rear mount then hat channel it in. Depending on what steering set up you have you may have to customize. If your running a stock brake booster it may hit valve covers so you need to decide what your going to exchange that with and there are many options. The front fender wells will need to be cut where they meet the frame. Your hood will drop closer to your motor, LS might be OK. Your going to have to raise trans tunnel and may have to channel for exhaust system. Wait, it gets better, depending on tires, wheels, and backspace, you may have to stretch fenders and quarter panels. I want to keep my track width so thats where I'm headed. I probably left a couple of things out that have to do with firewall dropping but you get the idea.

I like this idea, what are your thoughts of welding the frame into the body structure? I will be putting in an LS motor as well, will not be using a stock style booster for brakes. Yea I realize the amount of work I'm talking about but to get what you envision is worth it in the end.

[northwests]

What he said...

My car is pretty low. It has DSE's half-height bushings/mounts and that is about as much hassle as I would be willing to go through. If my car had huge wheels it would look just like Doug's. Which brings me to my next point, if you just want a killer stance Doug's car, which you can search for by the title "Apollo 13" proves that you don't need to go wild trying to move the subframe up. For non competitive events our cars both do fine. I don't notice the suspension bottoming out, or really have any other related problems. Basically the subframe height has never been an issue. Exhaust clearance, however, is the problem. And you're going to have problems unless you raise the floor, and if you do, you better pick out your seats, pedals, and steering column to accommodate you because you're likely going to have a lack of headroom.

Matt

I do love your car. Nice job. One of my biggest problems with the 69 imo looking at it from the side is the exhaust hanging low and the subframe hanging low. maybe a rocker extension may cover it up, but why not drop your suspension a couple inches without sacrificing travel or geometry and cure the issue at the same time. I have done bodydrops on trucks so modifying seats, exhaust, steering, pedals and dealing with headroom are all part of that. I am no expert but I am always thinking and trying to build things the way I envision them(maybe not for eveyone)

[Vegas69]

Personally, I fee air ride is the only way to go for a car in the weeds. That is if you want to drive it anywhere on city streets. It gives you the option to drive the car as low as you like and at a reasonable height for speed bumps, steep crossings, etc . I like your idea for a race car that needs very little ground clearance.

[northwests]

Thought I would include this picture of my truck, and I expect the "why would you do that" comments, but why wouldn't you is the real question. Full airride, four link with a watts link as well. This truck handles really well when it's off the ground of course.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n14/Northwest--S/Roadster1.jpg

[northwests]

Personally, I fee air ride is the only way to go for a car in the weeds. That is if you want to drive it anywhere on city streets. It gives you the option to drive the car as low as you like and at a reasonable height for speed bumps, steep crossings, etc . I like your idea for a race car that needs very little ground clearance.

I know what you mean, i have been drivin low for years and avoiding things. i will be building this with a happy medium, just throwin ideas around. Airride is great for many things but it is a huge pain in the a.

[Track Junky]

I like this idea, what are your thoughts of welding the frame into the body structure? I will be putting in an LS motor as well, will not be using a stock style booster for brakes. Yea I realize the amount of work I'm talking about but to get what you envision is worth it in the end.

I dont intend to weld frame to body structure at this point but you never really know until you get into the build. With the frame coming into the body and raising trans tunnel area it will be important to think about the structural integrity of the rest of the floor to avoid any issues down the road but it's definitely do-able. I say go for it.

[DRJDVM's '69]

We channeled my front frame on my cuda it it messed with alot of stuff.... Headers, exhaust pipe, trans tunnel, driveshaft, wheels etc etc etc..... And I have airride too!!!!
It definitely added a ton of work.... In the end it will be worth it I hope. Well see
A pro builder once told me that for every additional inch a customer wants to lower their car ( doing it right....without screwing with suspension geometry and travel) will add about $4k to the bill

It comes down to if it's worth it to YOU... In either time or $$

[96z28ss]

If I were an 80 year old man and wasn't getting laid anymore I might, until then this car will be badass-and holy crap if I had a 100g the world would be in trouble.

The car will swallow 100g's and you'll be wondering where to get the rest.

[Ron in SoCal]

The car will swallow 100g's and you'll be wondering where to get the rest.

Listen to this man...:unibrow:

[Matt@BOS]

I do love your car. Nice job. One of my biggest problems with the 69 imo looking at it from the side is the exhaust hanging low and the subframe hanging low. maybe a rocker extension may cover it up, but why not drop your suspension a couple inches without sacrificing travel or geometry and cure the issue at the same time. I have done bodydrops on trucks so modifying seats, exhaust, steering, pedals and dealing with headroom are all part of that. I am no expert but I am always thinking and trying to build things the way I envision them(maybe not for eveyone)

I would just make rockers and use oval exhaust where it hangs really low. As for why a person wouldn't want to cut the floor... well rebuilding a floor isn't exactly cheap. After putting putting more than a week into building a floor, then you have to have someone build you a set of custom headers. I can't say I've ever seen a car under 200K that has had that much modification. I'm not saying it can't be done, or hasn't been done but generally anyone considering this kind of modification is going to build the entire car to a high level of detail, using expensive parts.

And like others said, if you plan on buying the best parts for your suspension and engine, you will end up close to 100K deep into a roller with a really cool stance and custom floor.

Matt

[northwests]

The car will swallow 100g's and you'll be wondering where to get the rest.

It may swallow that much if I had someone else do it. I have a couple skills, so we will see what can be done. Thanks

[northwests]

I would just make rockers and use oval exhaust where it hangs really low. As for why a person wouldn't want to cut the floor... well rebuilding a floor isn't exactly cheap. After putting putting more than a week into building a floor, then you have to have someone build you a set of custom headers. I can't say I've ever seen a car under 200K that has had that much modification. I'm not saying it can't be done, or hasn't been done but generally anyone considering this kind of modification is going to build the entire car to a high level of detail, using expensive parts.

And like others said, if you plan on buying the best parts for your suspension and engine, you will end up close to 100K deep into a roller with a really cool stance and custom floor.

Matt

I will do my best and see where it leads-I sure hope it does'nt cost that much. Thank you guys for taking the time here.

[canrc]

I can attest to what Matt is saying...I am channeling the body of my car and man everything has to be custom, headers, rad support, tank, seat mounts, inner fenders and the list goes on! Hopefully it will be worth it at the end but all the parts add up VERY quickly!

[northwests]

I can attest to what Matt is saying...I am channeling the body of my car and man everything has to be custom, headers, rad support, tank, seat mounts, inner fenders and the list goes on! Hopefully it will be worth it at the end but all the parts add up VERY quickly!

That's cool I knew someone else was out there doin this. Your car is looking great, nice work. Look forward to seeing it done. The chevy II is delicious too