1969 Camaro RS.R - a new project from the OLC Team

[James OLC]

Well since that cat is out of the bag on this one I figured I might as well start a build thread – although it’s a bit early and the real “building” is just getting ready to start.

More than anything I guess this is an opportunity to introduce you to my new ’69 Camaro project that I am calling the Camaro RS.R – the name is in large part a homage to the light weight track oriented Porsche’s that have dominated road courses since their inception but more than anything the .R stands for something a little bit different (and repetitive) – Rally. Hopefully we can capture the spirit of both and in the end meet our goal of competing in the Targa Newfoundland Rally next fall.

I first started looking at this particular car in the summer of 2009…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%2009%201.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%2009%202.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%2009%203.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%2009%204.jpg

At the time I reluctantly passed since the OneLap car was starting to gain some steam and I wasn’t really sure what I needed to build at that point.

[James OLC]

Fast forward a year and a half and the car is up for sale again and now, after a couple of pretty decent outings with the OPTIMA Batteries OneLapCamaro I had some clear direction and ideas for where I needed to go.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%202011%201.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%202011%202.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%202011%203.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%202011%204.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%202011%205.jpg

The car was looked to be in great shape and after talking to the owner some more and having Best of Show give it a once over I pulled the trigger and we’re on our way.

[James OLC]

So what’s the plan?

In talking to David, Mary and some other people over the holidays my best description was a modern take on a Trans Am style car – hardly a new theme for (the collective) us but more or less correct. As we talked more I realized that it was heading towards more of a Porsche RSR theme – light weight, streetable but really track oriented, and just a bit different. This car will be 90% track focused and 10% street oriented; basically it will be street legal by necessity but not by choice.

Much like the OneLapCamaro I’m building it with one clear goal - to run the Targa Newfoundland. Because of the rules of the Targa it will end up in the “Open” class (since I can’t bring myself to build a Gen 1 SBC and keep the suspension stockish) which is really ideal since the foundation for the “Open” class more or less overlaps perfectly with the “Unlimited Class” tech rules for the Silver State Classic (did I say one clear goal… maybe two clear goals)… which would still leave it legal for the One Lap of America.

Building a car for the Targa requires some sacrifices that go against some more common PT themes and presents some unique challenges. Ground clearance is a huge issue – the Targa Newfoundland is, essentially, an open road rally race on a combination of public highways and city streets so there can be some very “unique” transitions. So don’t expect an in the weeds build here with stuff hanging low beneath the car. The exhaust will be high and even to some extent in the car, and will exit a bit… unconventionally.

Big tires front and back are a given. We’re going to work with SpeedTech and use one of their subframes and Three Link rear suspensions. We’ll push the envelope a bit on the front wheels and tires maybe running something like a 295 front and back…. maybe…. DSE mini-tubs are going in now, just in case we need more room in back… just in case…

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/69%20Camaro%20BOS.jpg

Right now the car is at Best of Show where we’re waiting on some parts. Once they arrive they’ll swap out a rear quarter and install the mini-tubs. Then the roof comes off and the car will be shipped to Rodger at Ironworks in Bakersfield for a complete 12-point roll cage and some other “subtle” ironworks touches. The SpeedTech front and rear suspensions will go on and then we’ll work to fit a light weight clip on the car and shed whatever unneeded weight that we can.

A rendering is in the works and a few details will work themselves through as time passes but I thought it was time to let the cat out of the bag.

Hopefully this is half as fun as the OLC build (and aftermath) was.

[tones2SS]

Very awesome James. I'm sure it's going to be a great car and you can't go wrong with the guys you have behind you. Good luck!:thumbsup:
Keep us posted.

[ironworks]

So that is what it looks like. Good to know.

[Vegas69]

Congrats on joining the exclusive group of 1969 Camaro owners. Your shirts are going to fit tighter in the chest and you will have new found confidence. :D

Sounds like a killer project! I'll be following along since I know you actually use and dial in your stuff. :thumbsup: One lap going down the road when it's done? and where do you find the time?

[waynieZ]

James Nice project. I'll be watching for the rendering. With the people you have involved with this project it should be Killer.
You tell um Todd !

[James OLC]

So that is what it looks like. Good to know.

I figured you knew what a 69 looked like already and besides, it should look different by the time it gets to you anyways.

Congrats on joining the exclusive group of 1969 Camaro owners. Your shirts are going to fit tighter in the chest and you will have new found confidence. :D

Sounds like a killer project! I'll be following along since I know you actually use and dial in your stuff. :thumbsup: One lap going down the road when it's done? and where do you find the time?

Believe it it or not this is my first 1969... I've had a couple of dozen first and second gens over the last twenty years but never a 69. And just when I was getting used to saying "no, it's just a '67..." :)

I don't know what happens to the OLC... My hope is that next year we could field both cars in the OLoA but logistically I'm not sure how that would work.

Time? What time?

[66LS7]

Looks like it's going to be a great project James, I'll keep my eyes on this one!:thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Well The One Lap 69 Camaro got picked up from it's drop off point in Irvine about a month and a half ago. The Speedtech stuff suspension system had arrived and we are working to get everything installed. We installed some DSE mini tubs and subframe connectors in the car and are getting the subframe mounted to the body without the subframe bushings. This will lower the car just a bit more. We Installed a Fab 9 rear axle housing on to the Speedtech torque are set up. James is selecting the seats he wants to run so we can measure for the steering column and begin rollcage construction. Last I heard James was thinking about having us try to stuff a 315 tire under the front suspension. I'm not sure if that is still the case or now. Then once that front tire with is figured we will set up the rear axle to fit the same tire all around and have the same backspace to be able to only care one spare tire. UUUMMMM Smart guy huh? Well enough BS, Lets see some pictures.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsMay2011084.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsMay2011081.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsMay2011026.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsMay2011025.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsMay2011083.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsMay2011082.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsMay2011024.jpg

[waynieZ]

Thats a nice list of parts. Glad to see it moving forward.

[Rybar]

Cool project James. Targa Newfoundland is a cool race. Just don't plow it into any trees like Eric Bana did :D

[Flash68]

Eric Bana's Beast and now this car have me thinking about and researching Targa races..... :thumbsup:

James, have you looked into the newer race "Targa Canada West"?

[bonecrrusher]

Lookin' good!

[James OLC]

The Targa West has been talked about for a few years now but doesn't seem to be able to get the traction it needs to become a reality. I met two of the organizers at the Silver State last fall and they insisted that eventually it was going to happen but I have my doubts at this point.

On that note...

I have some good news and some bad news...

and some good news...

The good news is that the RS.R project is gaining some momentum and Rodger and the crew at Ironworks are making some great headway on the car. It should bea roller next week and then it's on to the more fab side of things.

The "bad news" is that I have had to rethink the project and there are going to be some changes - both in scope and purpose - for the car and the Targa Newfoundland is probably not in the cards.

The good news is that the car has a new nickname... OLC2

Mary and I had a couple of long 1 am talks about what it would take to make the '69 a top 10 OLOA contender and I think we have a pretty good plan now. Not much will change from the original plan but we will be a bit more aggressive with the ride height and might make allowances for a couple of creature comforts. We'll also, to a certain extent, build the car around tires. We (I) made a mistake with tires this year so next year (and the year after) we will be much more focused on tire choice and availability.

And for what it's worth... the '67 will be running the One Lap next year and the '69 will be 2013... once we gave the bugs sorted out. Unless some miracles happen... Then maybe... Who knows...

[James OLC]

and for those paying attention, the car made it's magazine debut in this months Camaro Performers magazine... it's ironic that I have seen the car in pictures and in print but, for what it's worth, I haven't actually seen the cay myself yet... LOL

[Flash68]

The Targa West has been talked about for a few years now but doesn't seem to be able to get the traction it needs to become a reality. I met two of the organizers at the Silver State last fall and they insisted that eventually it was going to happen but I have my doubts at this point.



James, it just happened last weekend. Only 20 cars competed but that's a start I guess.

http://www.targacanadawest.com/

http://www.facebook.com/targa.canadawest

[James OLC]

That wasn't the "Targa Canada West" as an equivalent to the Targa Newfoundland - that was the TTR - a one day event put on by the Targa Canada West organizers.

Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, just that it's different. We have a couple of very active ralley groups in Western Canada that have been running one day events and series, etc. for a long time and this event would fall, in my opinion, within that category. The challenge of events like the Targa Newfoundland and Tasmania (and the OLOA) is the shear scope of the competition and the ability for "non-dedicated" ralley cars to participate. IMHO

[Flash68]

That wasn't the "Targa Canada West" as an equivalent to the Targa Newfoundland - that was the TTR - a one day event put on by the Targa Canada West organizers.

Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, just that it's different. We have a couple of very active ralley groups in Western Canada that have been running one day events and series, etc. for a long time and this event would fall, in my opinion, within that category. The challenge of events like the Targa Newfoundland and Tasmania (and the OLOA) is the shear scope of the competition and the ability for "non-dedicated" ralley cars to participate. IMHO

Ohh well that makes sense. I was wondering why it was so small and lacked much coverage. Well you're obviously on top of it! :lol:

Your talk of the Targa Newfoundland inspired me... and I need to keep doing more research! Thanks for the info. :lateral:

[James OLC]

Just seeing if anyone is paying attention...

Ben did up this great rendering that captures some of the ideas that we're working on for the project

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Teaser.jpg

Construction continues at Ironworks, working on fitting front wheels/tires now while we wait for roll cage materials and the fuel cell...

[camcojb]

pretty evil looking James! :thumbsup:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Just seeing if anyone is paying attention...

Ben did up this great rendering that captures some of the ideas that we're working on for the project

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Teaser.jpg

Construction continues at Ironworks, working on fitting front wheels/tires now while we wait for roll cage materials and the fuel cell...

As I'm sure you realize, getting peoples attention will be the least of your issues..

After all, it is a '69.

:lol:

[Track Junky]

Just seeing if anyone is paying attention...

Ben did up this great rendering that captures some of the ideas that we're working on for the project

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Teaser.jpg

Construction continues at Ironworks, working on fitting front wheels/tires now while we wait for roll cage materials and the fuel cell...

I'm not 100% on the gill location/design but needless to say, you nailed the airdam/splitter. Looking forward to seeing it completed :thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Well I will share some of the work we have been doing lately on this project.

We have the cowl vent cut out from under than dash and smoothing up the cowl vents from the car. This will give more interior room for the rollcage and steering dash bars.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011045.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011003.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011010.jpg

We got the brackets on the housing welded in place and custom made the bracket to land the torque arm on the Fab 9 axle housing.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011008.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011007.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011006.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011005.jpg

We are working on figuring out exactly what has to be done to put 315 tires all the way around. We are getting closer. Some mock up pics of tires we have around the shop.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011016.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppicsmay2011012.jpg


We are waiting on the pedal assembly and getting the fuel cell set up figured on on the car also. Hopefully the Bullet will arrive from GM performance parts any day. :D :D

[bulldog19]

Nice work Rodger.
That front wheel is awful close!

[ironworks]

Nice work Rodger.
That front wheel is awful close!

Yeah that is the 7" Back space wheel. That seems to be just about the limit on backspace with an 18" wheel. With a brake rotor hat t would come out about a 1/4". But that is only a 275 tire and with in a 1/4" of the desired OD of the tire James would like to run.

[James OLC]

I think the inner clearance is perfect - it's about bang on what we have with OLC1 and as long as nothing hits there's no issue. Besides, the only time (knock on wood) that we're at full lock is when we are in the parking lot.

We are pushing really hard to fit a 315/30-18 - same wheel & same tire - all around. I'm not sure if it's going to work quite the way we hope but we're going to try.

[James OLC]

Rodger - any chance that you're going to teach your guys to weld one day? :D

Seriously - that's awesome work on the brackets and really shows the skill level that you have over at Ironworks right now. :thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Rodger - any chance that you're going to teach your guys to weld one day? :D

Seriously - that's awesome work on the brackets and really shows the skill level that you have over at Ironworks right now. :thumbsup:

Thanks but let me see if we can do better. There is never good enough. Just so you know.

[Greg from Aus]

James love the car, and direction. I am bulding my car to compete in Targa West and Targa Tasmania, here in Australia. Can't wait to see the end product.

Regards
Greg

[radrambler]

WOW GUYS...

putting a 315 tire on the front
YA sould have called Scott Mock.COOLWELDER62. he has done this using his subframe..:thumbsup:
I will be watching this come together Rodger
goodluck
TOM

[James OLC]

You're right - Scott is great people and his products and builds are top notch! Just because nobody has done it before doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be done. Mary and I were discussing it today and she says that she would be happy with a 295 tire (which we have now) but I know that if we don't at least try for the 315 we'll be second guessing ourselves forever.

[coolwelder62]

:thumbsup: Scott M.

[James OLC]

Nothing to see here.... move along....

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsJune2011007.jpg

[Ron in SoCal]

Ha...looks like nothing...other than tucking a 315! Killer James...:thumbsup:

[Rick D]

I don't see nothin :wow: :wow: Looks sweet!!!!

[tones2SS]

Looks like nothing to see. lol:P
Great update James.

[James OLC]

moving along:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsJuly2011001.jpg

[bdahlg68]

moving along:

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/ShopPicsJuly2011001.jpg

I smell composite roof here......

[James OLC]

I smell composite roof here......

Pass... my history with composite's is not great. We had removed the roof to replace it (see last months issue of Camaro Performers) and we're leaving it off for now to make the install of the roll cage easier.

[nic]

Car looks Great:woot:

[waynieZ]

James the car is coming along nice, I can't wait to see more.

[bdahlg68]

Pass... my history with composite's is not great. We had removed the roof to replace it (see last months issue of Camaro Performers) and we're leaving it off for now to make the install of the roll cage easier.

Aha. Looks like the side of the roof skin and area where it meets the quarter is on....

[ironworks]

These pics might help bring this thread back to the top.

HMMM Floater

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/3-23-2012005.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/3-23-2012004.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/3-23-2012003.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/3-23-2012002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/3-23-2012001.jpg

This is the Floater that Speedtech is now selling. Pretty nice stuff here.

[KPC67]

That looks sweet!
:thumbsup:

[intocarss]

That's one sexy rearend you got

[ironworks]

I guess it is about time for another update. We have been plugging away on James's Project. We moved the engine back some 4-5" I think when it was all said and done. This mod required us to just fabricate a complete new firewall. We also taper the sides of the firewall to make the air exit thought the intended side vents a bit easier. We set up to hang the Wilwood pedal assembly with the DBW gas pedal. We constructed a really nice 1.75" rollcage and are currently working on adding the 1.5" supporting bars. The Speedtech torque arm and front suspension are pretty much completely installed. We installed the DSE subframe connectors to go with it also. Upon moving the engine back we also had to clearance the subframe to clear the alternator. Hopefully we will have some mock up wheels so we can see how the 315's on all 4 corners are going to fit. Enough talking here are some pics.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/4-6-2012015.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/4-16-2012003.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/4-23-2012002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/Juneshoppics001.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics008.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics009.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics010.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics012.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics001.jpg



More to come

[ironworks]

And a few more

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics005.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics007-1.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/Augustshoppics012.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/Augustshoppics007.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/augustshoppics002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/augustshoppics001.jpg

Enjoy

[Swain]

Looks bad ass like always.

[Flash68]

Is that mock up dash in position properly? Is it really going to be that far from vertical or is that just camera lens skew?

Love the flat fabbed firewall with no "stuff" on it. :thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Is that mock up dash in position properly? Is it really going to be that far from vertical or is that just camera lens skew?

Love the flat fabbed firewall with no "stuff" on it. :thumbsup:

That's the angle of dash, but there is a Marquez cluster that goes in that hole that puts the gauges at a viewable angle. We have done a few of these dashes they work pretty good. The top of the dash is supposed to fit up to the windshield flange. The dash makes it looks modern and is pretty light weight.

[67zo6Camaro]

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/4-23-2012002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/Juneshoppics001.jpg


Those are nice touches Rodger and team. Inspirational as usuall.

Brett

[ironworks]

Those are nice touches Rodger and team. Inspirational as usuall.

Brett

Thanks just trying to do our job.

[waynieZ]

Nice work!

[DFRESH]

That's awesome on the cage---love how tight it's tucked---what a sweet setup. Looks like you spilled some of that "Talent Spray" on your guys.

D

[James OLC]

Thanks for posting Rodger - the OLC2 project has been coming along really well over the last couple of months!

The cage is being built to FIA Specs following the NASA Rally Sport rule set - this should make it legal for just about anything we're planning on doing. One Lap (no cage rules), SSCC up to Unlimited Tech, Targa Newfoundland, The Chihuahua Express, Pikes Peak, and just about anything in between. It's about as tight as Rodger could get it and with the foundation done now the rest will be coming together.

The engine setback is huge and is presenting a few challenges but nothing that I think will be an issue. We've put together a one-off set of stainless header that should do the trick but steering bits need some thought.

The dash is a lightweight version of Marquez's dash that he built for us. We'll be running it along with some half height door panels and a RacePak IQ3 dash.

Tires will probably be the same as the OLC.R - 325/30s in the back and 305/30's up front. 325's will probably fit but potentially pose issues with the ABS.

[Vegas69]

Looking fantastic guys. :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

James, I'm going to have to pay closer attention to your build. You're becoming like a junior Mark Stielow. For most of us, cutting edge is what Stielow built five years ago, and the OLC2 definitely defies that convention. It is clear a ton of thought has gone into this car. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what you did on the original OLC :lol:

Matt

[fleetus macmullitz]

There are '69 Camaros...and then there is this one. :thumbsup:

[DFRESH]

There are '69 Camaros...and then there is this one. :thumbsup:

How dare you say that.

[fleetus macmullitz]

How dare you say that.

Sorry Doug, of course yours is special too...:rolleyes:



:D

[Jay Hilliard]

Looking great. Nice job.

[SLO_Z28]

How much rear camber are you running with that floater? What posi are you using?

[Rybar]

James and Rodger, the project is looking great. Love those ideas with the cage. :thumbsup:

[sik68]

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/4-23-2012002.jpg


Absolutely love this build!

I have a question on the fabricated base for the main hoop. The load path seems a little suspect, as the main hoop loads during a crash have to get transfered through the relatively thin sheet of the fabricated box. Do you think that box is strong enough to not puncture or deform during a crash?

Thanks,
S

[HWY Nova]

Absolutely love this build!

I have a question on the fabricated base for the main hoop. The load path seems a little suspect, as the main hoop loads during a crash have to get transfered through the relatively thin sheet of the fabricated box. Do you think that box is strong enough to not puncture or deform during a crash?

Thanks,
S

What thickness do you consider to be thin? The boxes are probably 1/8" thick.

--Eric

[James OLC]

Built to the rules and to the prefered design:


15.6.13 Mounting Points
The roll cage shall be mounted to the floor area of the car in six, seven, or eight points. The cage shall not go through the firewall. The seventh and eighth points must attach to the firewall or front fender wells. All cage attachment points must be mounted to plates or a mounting box (plinth). Each required cage bar shall terminate on a plate with a 360 degree weld to the mounting plate, except as specified in Section 15.6.14.B. There shall be only one (1) mounting “point” per plate. This point is defined as where the “required tube” mounts. All additional tubes mounted to that plate must be mounted as close to the required tube as possible [Ref: (15.6.14.B)]. It is recommended that plinth boxes use a bottom support plate in cases where the edges of the box may punch through the sheet metal.

15.6.14 Mounting Plates
Each mounting plate shall be no greater than one hundred (100) square inches and no greater than twelve (12) inches or less than two (2) inches on a side. Welded mounting plates shall be at least 0.080-inch thick. Plates may extend onto vertical sections of the structure. Any mounting plate may be multi-angled, but shall not exceed one hundred (100) square inches total including vertical sections. Each mounting plate should have an area of not less than nine (9) square inches.


and yes - I would consider them to be on par with the subframe or subframe connectors wrt strength.

[ironworks]

So your saying I was not supposed to form them from .020 aluminum? But I painted them with steel colored spray paint. Krylon none the less.......GEEZ

[sik68]

Good to know thanks guys :thumbsup:

[SLO_Z28]

The point he is making is that you have only about 1.25 sq inches (assuming its .125 x 6(4x2 patch) as opposed to the surface area of part where the main hoop connects which would be 8 sq inches. You load the main hoop and it would act like a lever arm on the frame and deform. To reduce that you could add another plate underneath where the bend comes down from the hoop and that would slow deformation of the mounting plate.

If you got me some measurements from that picture I could do a few statics calculations and give you a basic idea of how forces would act on it in a collision.

[ironworks]

The point he is making is that you have only about 1.25 sq inches (assuming its .125 x 6(4x2 patch) as opposed to the surface area of part where the main hoop connects which would be 8 sq inches. You load the main hoop and it would act like a lever arm on the frame and deform. To reduce that you could add another plate underneath where the bend comes down from the hoop and that would slow deformation of the mounting plate.

If you got me some measurements from that picture I could do a few statics calculations and give you a basic idea of how forces would act on it in a collision.

Couldn't it also be that we added an extension to the frame rail or in this case the subframe connector that is welded into the floor from the subframe to the rear of the passenger main floor? And that Extension is then welded to the floor in a way that no flat plate ever could be? It must weld to the floor in like 10 different planes. Then on top of that on the back side of the base is the rocker and the inner rockers. Plus when we are done we can weld a small kicker from the bottom of the main hoop to the subframe connectors.
Had we have just welded flat plate to the floor I'm not sure where we would find a flat enough section to get anything more then a few square inches of surface area.

I'm not trying to be a much of a smart ass as this sounds, But can you explain how your going to compute how strong that base plate box is? Sure I can go with the fact of just the box welded to the cage. But the fact its welded in 3 planes to the to subframe connector mean your going to have to compute the strength of the subframe connecter that is welded in to the floor by lets say to 12" strips on each side so now you will need to compute the strength of everything bolted in the area of the floor, like the subframe it self and probably the trans crossmember which would be acting in tension with a side impact. Plus the base plate we have is then welded to the the inner quarter, the floor, the inner rocker and the outer rocker would be contributing to the the strength of this piece. I find it very difficult to understand how someone can just to do a quick accurate calculation about this base plate that is not even complete. Because once you find out the fact we plan to add short kickers it will change all calculations.


Thanks

[sik68]

The reason I posted my question is that I ASSumed the box was fabbed from bent sheet...I didn't look close enough to see that the box was welded plates with the beads ground down. :captain: I've only seen plinth boxes where all the weld beads were left on but they look, ahem, rough.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/DSCN3425.jpg

Obviously Ironworks goes the extra mile. Rock on guys!

[ironworks]

The reason I posted my question is that I ASSumed the box was fabbed from bent sheet...I didn't look close enough to see that the box was welded plates with the beads ground down. :captain: I've only seen plinth boxes where all the weld beads were left on but they look, ahem, rough.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb128/thre11phan/DSCN3425.jpg

Obviously Ironworks goes the extra mile. Rock on guys!

It's actually cut and formed 4x4" square tube. Thanks

[sokoloka]

Absolutely badass. Been in love with the rendering since I first saw it.

[SLO_Z28]

Its actually very easy, and time consuming, to figure out exactly what the forces are on that system in the event of a collision. The point is that unless you have a plate underneath what is shown, that the size of the plate doesn't really matter, the force would travel along the plate and down to the sheet metal, at which point the shear of the sheet metal becomes the determining factor of the strength of that particular joint.

here are some examples of NASA / FIA approved methods of what you're building:
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/SLO_Z28/PT%20project%20thread/Foot.jpg
NASA requires at least a 3 x 4 x .125 footprint that mounts directly to the body

[Gandalf]

Rodger - I hope that Krylon is the stuff from Walmart - they have theirs made from a special formula that makes it 3.75x stronger than the Krylon available off the shelf anywhere else LOL.

You guys are all bad-azz just for being able to HAVE these conversations and I apprecate you for being willing to have them in public. I always come away having learned something new.

Looking great guys! Keep it coming.
G

[ironworks]

Its actually very easy, and time consuming, to figure out exactly what the forces are on that system in the event of a collision. The point is that unless you have a plate underneath what is shown, that the size of the plate doesn't really matter, the force would travel along the plate and down to the sheet metal, at which point the shear of the sheet metal becomes the determining factor of the strength of that particular joint.

here are some examples of NASA / FIA approved methods of what you're building:
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h399/SLO_Z28/PT%20project%20thread/Foot.jpg
NASA requires at least a 3 x 4 x .125 footprint that mounts directly to the body

James your drawing looks almost exactly like what we did. Except mine is welded to the subframe connector which is once again much stronger then the floor.

[James OLC]

Rodger - I hope that Krylon is the stuff from Walmart - they have theirs made from a special formula that makes it 3.75x stronger than the Krylon available off the shelf anywhere else LOL.

You guys are all bad-azz just for being able to HAVE these conversations and I apprecate you for being willing to have them in public. I always come away having learned something new.

Looking great guys! Keep it coming.
G

Thanks Gregg - it's coming together.

One of the difficulties that seems to occur from time to time in forum conversations on the interweb is that (a) comments can be made without knowing all of the facts, (b) opinions can be presented as facts with minimal or partial support, and (c) it's difficult to know the tone of the intended commentary and replies. I guess that's why questions and answers always seems more palatable to me. These conversations are great but I always prefer to make sure that some background is given as well - and to that end...

The roll cage in this car is being built following the NASA Rally Sport rule set, which is founded in the FIA Article 253 Safety Equipment rule set. Both the NRS and the FIA rules are fundamentally the same but there are differences beyond the FIA's use of french and somewhat difficult to follow layout - the FIA rules call for CDM tubing only whereas most North American sanctioning bodies allow for (and provide specifications for) DOM. The FIA rules also specify dimensions in cm rather than inches (which don't always convert the same) and there are rules and specifications the FIA have in place that are not included in some other rule sets. Regardless of the differences, most sanctioning bodies pull their specification (and even diagrams) from the FIA rules and most sanctioning bodies will recognize approved roll cage designs from alternative bodies provided they are not fundamentally different. I chose the NRS rules because they are very clearly laid out, they exceed the NASA CCS minimum in most regards, and they are applicable to most of the events that I will be running. I know that I am comfortable using the NRS rules and we're building the cage out of DOM which is acceptable just about everywhere in North America but this means that the car would not be legal per FIA rules. I am, however, still following the FIA rules as a foundation.

These rules may not be the same as the rules that you will need to follow when you construct your car so I suggest that you follow the rule set that you need and, if you have specific questions regarding your cage design, that you consult the applicable sanctioning body directly.

[James OLC]

With respect to the plinth box design which Rodger has used there are a couple of applicable rules - NASA RS Rules state:


4.1.3 Reinforcement plates
These are plates welded to the bodyshell used for attachment of the cage, either by direct welding or via mounting feet. Reinforcement plates must be a minimum of 1/8” thick, and have an area of 12 to 100 square inches, with a minimum dimension on any side of 2.5” and a maximum dimension on any side of 12”. It is highly recommended that these plates be formed to attach in more than one plane.


Which we are adhering to (the approximate area of the plinth, if you were to unfold it, is 95 square inches).

The NASA CCR rules state:


15.6.14 Mounting Plates
Each mounting plate shall be no greater than one hundred (100) square inches and no greater than twelve (12) inches or less than two (2) inches on a side. Welded mounting plates shall be at least 0.080-inch thick. Plates may extend onto vertical sections of the structure. Any mounting plate may be multi-angled, but shall not exceed one hundred (100) square inches total including vertical sections. Each mounting plate should have an area of not less than nine (9) square inches.


Which we are adhering to.

The FIA Rules state:


Mounting points of the front, main, lateral rollbars or lateral halfrollbars:
Each mounting point must include a reinforcement plate at least 3 mm thick. Each mounting foot must be attached by at least three bolts on a steel reinforcement plate at least 3 mm thick and of at least 120 cm2 area which is welded to the bodyshell.
For cars homologated as from 01.01.2007, the area of 120 cm2 must be the contact surface between the reinforcement plate and the bodyshell.
Examples according to Drawings 253-50 to 253-56.
For Drawing 253-52, the reinforcement plate need not necessarily be welded to the bodyshell.
In the case of Drawing 253-54, the sides of the mounting point may be closed with a welded plate.
Fixing bolts must have a minimum diameter of M8 and a minimum quality of 8.8 (ISO standard). Fasteners must be self-locking or fitted with lock washers. The angle between 2 bolts (measured from the tube axis at the level of the mounting foot cf. Drawing 253-50) must not be less than 60 degrees.

The rules go on to say that the use of bolts is a minimum requirement and that mounting plates may be welded

So we are in compliance with this rule set as well.

The three diagrams that James posted above are Figures 253-54, 253-55, and 253-56 in the FIA rules; there are a total of nine figures in that group of examples so there are other acceptable options available as well.

As I said above, however, what really matters is the answer to this question: “Is my roll cage compliant to the specific rule set that I am following for my intended application?” and ultimately that question can only be answered by a tech inspector. And in my case above that question has been answered by the regional scrutineer and tech supervisor – so I am satisfied with the design.

[HWY Nova]

James,

GREAT EXPLANATIONS!



--Eric

[Rick D]

Well done James and Rodger, on the tech and keeping use all informed on some of the decision go into the building of a car to compete at the highest levels. Also to all partys for keeping civil and informative :cheers:

[Flash68]

Mr. Shipka.... Well done.

[srh3trinity]

I know the back and forth sometimes can be frustrating for the two parties trying to make the point, but on this website, it is often educational for the rest of us.

I followed the original OLC and the trailer for a few miles on the road after watching it run at Barbers in Alabama and it was cool to see the car in vivo. This one looks like it is going to be an extension of what you learned from the first build.

[James OLC]

I know the back and forth sometimes can be frustrating for the two parties trying to make the point, but on this website, it is often educational for the rest of us.

I followed the original OLC and the trailer for a few miles on the road after watching it run at Barbers in Alabama and it was cool to see the car in vivo. This one looks like it is going to be an extension of what you learned from the first build.

The evolution of the original OLC is certainly weighing on the OLC2 build. Likewise the work that we've done to this point on 2 is largely responsible for the OLC.R modifications that are underway now. The big difference is that the OLC was never intended to be a race car although as time has progressed it has straddled the line a bit more than I anticipated at first. That being said, there are events or circumstances that I am simply not comfortable running with the OLC regardless of its evolution. I would really like to run the Spectre 341 event but I won't without a full cage. I would really like to compete in the Targa, and the Chihuahua, and and and... but I can't without a full cage. And to reaffirm my thinking I urge anyone who has not seen Jeremy Foley's crash (http://youtu.be/zEUrEPPABbY)on Sunday to take a look and think about the unthinkable.

2 will be an extention, and an evolution, and it will be a step over that line...

[ironworks]

I thought I might post up a small update on the progress of the rollcage in James Shipka's car.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-7-2012003.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-7-2012002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-7-2012001.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-6-2012011.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-6-2012010.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/augshoppics8-17-2012004.jpg


If 1 picture says a 1000 words, This should be enough. Broc has done an awesome job on the rollcage in this car.

[HWY Nova]

That will be one rigid car!


--Eric

[coolwelder62]

I thought I might post up a small update on the progress of the rollcage in James Shipka's car.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-7-2012003.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-7-2012002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-7-2012001.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-6-2012011.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-6-2012010.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/augshoppics8-17-2012004.jpg


If 1 picture says a 1000 words, This should be enough. Broc has done an awesome job on the rollcage in this car.I hope this (Roll Cage) design has been aproved by SLO-Z/28.I would hate to see all that hard work go too waste.:willy:

[ironworks]

I hope this (Roll Cage) design has been aproved by SLO-Z/28.I would too see all that hard work go too waste.:willy:

We are still on stand by waiting for the official word as to whether we can proceed forward as we speak. Fingers crossed.:D :D :D

[Flash68]

I hope this (Roll Cage) design has been aproved by SLO-Z/28.I would hate to see all that hard work go too waste.:willy:

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Rick D]

Come on guys play nice :cool:


Ok Scott that was funny :D

Oh and I approve of this roll cage!! :lol: :unibrow:

[fleetus macmullitz]

gpztPyZ5TH0&feature

[waynieZ]

Great work, and after that crash you can definitely see the need for the rules.

[Big-Head]

And a few more

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics005.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics007-1.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/Augustshoppics012.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/Augustshoppics007.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/augustshoppics002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/augustshoppics001.jpg

Enjoy

Killer work guys!:thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Thanks Guys, Broc has done a great job on James' car. We just have to figure how to weld around each and every tube on the rollcage. It will be tight on some parts but I think we have a solid plan to get it handled. We will be finishing the other parts of bars we have to do and then starting making the gussets.

Rodger

[coolwelder62]

Thanks Guys, Broc has done a great job on James' car. We just have to figure how to weld around each and every tube on the rollcage. It will be tight on some parts but I think we have a solid plan to get it handled. We will be finishing the other parts of bars we have to do and then starting making the gussets.

RodgerRodger,If you are careful you can bend a 6011 welding rod right on the end so it's easy to reach those tight spots.About 2 inchs from the end bend the tip of the rod at 45 degree angle.And Bazinga,tight corner welding made easy.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Continued progress on the door bars in James's car.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-11-2012007.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-11-2012006.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-11-2012008.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-11-2012009.jpg

The tube fit on this project is perfect.

[Musclerodz]

Continued progress on the door bars in James's car.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-11-2012009.jpg

The tube fit on this project is perfect.

Question, should you not first weld the underlying tube before welding the overlaying tube in your triple connection? I have done lots of tube work on vintage airplanes and never left any part of a tube unwelded.

[ironworks]

Question, should you not first weld the underlying tube before welding the overlaying tube in your triple connection? I have done lots of tube work on vintage airplanes and never left any part of a tube unwelded.

We want to build all the bars and gussets first. Then the cage will have get slide forward to get it entirely welded around each tube. Don't worry we have it handled. :D :D

[RickM415]

why so much safety ...real drivers have no cage ,wear no seat belts lol

signed...
the guy that thought he was superman


great work!!!

[Musclerodz]

We want to build all the bars and gussets first. Then the cage will have get slide forward to get it entirely welded around each tube. Don't worry we have it handled. :D :D

This is the area I am speaking of.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/ccracin/Misc/Untitled.jpg

I can see it is all tacked and would be full welded at a future point once full built, just did not know how far you would disassemble to fully welded.:thumbsup:

[ironworks]

This is the area I am speaking of.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/ccracin/Misc/Untitled.jpg

I can see it is all tacked and would be full welded at a future point once full built, just did not know how far you would disassemble to fully weld.

I understand what you asking and we will remove that tube when we know the customer likes everything and fully weld that seam. We have it handled. I think

[Musclerodz]

I understand what you asking and we will remove that tube when we know the customer likes everything and fully weld that seam. We have it handled. I think

No problem, I understand the direction, just observing the progress and enjoying the show. Thanks for clarifying. :thumbsup:

[windycitychev]

Sweet build I should start one for my build

[dylanCamaro582]

Nice, alway wanting to see cool purpose-built cars.
Will there be any update on the OLC? Been seeing a lot of progress on FB,but nothing on the forums.

[James OLC]

Rodger and Broc have been doing a great job on the cage for the OLC2. I was worried about the FIA bar at the front but the NASA Rally Sport tech director gave us some good advice and I think that it came out really well. There are a few bars left to go - roof, harness, and footwell - and then the taco gussets and some miscellaneous support bars and then we should be ready to weld everything up.

I've been mulling over doing an update thread for the OLC but I figured that everyone probably needed a break from the '67 for a while so I've kept the changes pretty quiet. It's a few weeks from being back on the ground but I'm really happy with what Dick and the guys at Best of Show have been able to do. OLC.R should be on the track in a month or two...

Cheers

James

[Vince@Meanstreets]

This is the area I am speaking of.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/ccracin/Misc/Untitled.jpg

I can see it is all tacked and would be full welded at a future point once full built, just did not know how far you would disassemble to fully welded.:thumbsup:

Most full custom cages get mocked up and tacked into place then a weld order gets established before it is all fully welded. It takes a lot of planning for a cages system especially as elaborate as this one. If not done right will make more work and wasted tubing later. If done properly some sections can be removed or disconnected from the chassis to be welded.

[Matt@BOS]

Looking forward to seeing more of the RS.R Camaro. I've said it before, but you guys are definitely pushing the envelope.

As for the OLC, I'm looking forward to the day that is back on the road too. It isn't the lightest car on earth, and I'm tired of being enlisted to help push it around. I would comment about how it is looking, but I'm not Dick or Jon :lol:

Matt

[Ron in SoCal]

I've been mulling over doing an update thread for the OLC but I figured that everyone probably needed a break from the '67 for a while so I've kept the changes pretty quiet. It's a few weeks from being back on the ground but I'm really happy with what Dick and the guys at Best of Show have been able to do. OLC.R should be on the track in a month or two...

Cheers

James

Uh, James...:)

re: OLC :ttiwop:

[James OLC]

Uh, James...:)

re: OLC :ttiwop:

I don't want to mess up this thread with pics of the other car. Maybe I'll try to get something together this weekend or next.

I was going to hint at a couple of things but to be honest... the changes are probably not as minor as I make them out to be.

[Ron in SoCal]

I don't want to mess up this thread with pics of the other car. Maybe I'll try to get something together this weekend or next.

I was going to hint at a couple of things but to be honest... the changes are probably not as minor as I make them out to be.

Fixed it for ya! :lol:

James, do a phase two stand alone thread like Steve-O did w Penny. As cool as OLC is will be a fun read :lateral:

[James OLC]

In all fairness... One piece at a time the changes seem relatively minor but I have to admit that as a whole it seems like a lot more. I'll try to start a thread soon.

[Matt@BOS]

James, do a phase two stand alone thread like Steve-O did w Penny. As cool as OLC is will be a fun read :lateral:

Ron, I have spy photos. When we meet up later this week, we can discuss what they might be worth.

Matt

[Ron in SoCal]

Name your price Matt...:D

[Tom.A]

I really like this project. James please do start a thread on the '67 as many of us would like to see updates. I don't think anyone is tired of that car:thumbsup:

[JasonElvisHeard]

dam nice roger!

your fabricator is doing a great job!

Jason

[67zo6Camaro]

Holly molly! I saw a spy photo today.... Man James, you under estimate what is going on with OLC1. It is amazing how people keep stepping it up. The new, is lighter; better contact patch; better aero..... and much more to the point. Less show and more go. I just love what things have become over the last few years. These are the kind of things I would dream about as a kid.

"What if you could build.....?" And it's happening right if front of all of us.

:cheers:

[ironworks]

Some more pics.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-14-2012004.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-14-2012003.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-14-2012002.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-14-2012001.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-14-2012005.jpg

A 69 camaro with COOL vent windows. :D :D

[David Pozzi]

I'm wondering how much room there will be between that last vertical door bar & the steering wheel, it looks close. How about access to window cranks & door latch?

[James OLC]

I'm wondering how much room there will be between that last vertical door bar & the steering wheel, it looks close. How about access to window cranks & door latch?

Clearance between the FIA bar and the steering wheel should not be an issue. The rules allow for a maximum 20º bend "out" to allow for increased clearance (which we have taken advantage of) and the steering wheel will be behind that bar. I took some measurements in the '68 and if the wheel was in the stock position there should have been about 4" of clearance +/-. As it sits now the down bar should be tucked right against the dash (the dash might even have to be clearanced a bit) which should keep it comfortably safe.

Dash - referencing the different holes in the door -
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/julyshoppics012.jpg

FIA bar - should be right there...
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/shoppics9-14-2012001.jpg

Windows might have to go power... door latches may have to be tweaked...

[ironworks]

That FIA bar is as far out as the rules allow. It might even be 20.5 degrees if it did not spring back as much as normal. We pushed that to the limit. The FIA bar Will be right in front of the dash face. Yeah window cranks are not an option and door latches can be easily moved. These rules are super specific and they are only concern about one thing driver safety.

[coolwelder62]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Rodger I will sign off on the design if you can't get SLO-Z/28 too do it.

[ironworks]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Rodger I will sign off on the design if you can't get SLO-Z/28 too do it.

For some reason I think I could buy your vote with lunch. Just sayin. If I came through tech with a BBQ pork sandwich we would suddenly be on the pole. :D :D

[James OLC]

I really like this project. James please do start a thread on the '67 as many of us would like to see updates. I don't think anyone is tired of that car:thumbsup:

OK... thread started... http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=38370

[James OLC]

The roll cage is just about finished and ready for welding...

Roof bars are in and tied to the V bars in back

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Cage%2036%20-%20Roof%20Bars.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Cage%2037%20-%20Roof%20Bars.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Cage%2038%20-%20Roof%20Bars.jpg

and the taco gussets are in where the rules require.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Cage%2039%20-%20Tacos.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Cage%2041%20-%20Tacos.jpg

You can also see an "extra" bar in the footwell for some extra protection.

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Cage%2040%20-%20Tacos.jpg

http://www.onelapcamaro.com/1969%20RSR/OLC2%20Cage%2042%20-%20Tacos.jpg

[bulldog19]

Looking Good James!
Great work Ironworks. Top Notch as ususal.

[Sieg]

Good stuff!

What guage metal are the taco's?

[Flash68]

Wow that might be the coolest cage I've seen in awhile.

[CarlC]

Are you going to put some speakers in those doors? The cutouts are already there! :unibrow:

Nice work Roger! How about some "how-to" on taco fab?

[James OLC]

NASA rules for the Tacos:

4.2 Gusset construction
Gussets are required to be made as follows:
1. U-shaped sheet metal (taco shell). Refer to figure 253-
34 below. Minimum thickness is .040” (1 mm). Minimum length along the unwelded side of the gusset is 3 times the tubing diameter.
2. Round tubing. Minimum length of the longest dimensions is 3 times the tubing diameter. Minimum tubing diameter is 1” with minimum wall thickness of . 083”. Maximum diameter and wall thickness is per the materials in table of section 6.6.
3. One or 2 triangular plate steel gussets with combined thickness equal to the tubing which is being gusseted. Minimum length along the unwelded side of the triangular gusset is 3 times the tubing diameter.
Any plate or u-shaped gusset that is welded into a joint location where it can block the view of the welds between the tubes being reinforced must have the corner cut back to enable visual inspection of the tube joint. This is illustrated in figure 253-34 and typically looks like a bite out of the corner of the gusset.


Definitely Carl! I was thinking that a full sound system with three subs, four amps and twelve speakers should do it! Or not... If anything I thing that a few hours with a hole saw will get the rest of the inner door in good shape!

[Sieg]

Thanks for the education James. :thumbsup:

[CarlC]

NASA rules for the Tacos:

If anything I thing that a few hours with a hole saw will get the rest of the inner door in good shape!

You're going to need a lot of holes to offset the weight of that cage.

[James OLC]

You're going to need a lot of holes to offset the weight of that cage.

Driver's on top of that one buddy! I think I have it covered...

[ironworks]

So we talked about it for a while and figure out how to weld each and every square inch completely around each tube.

http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012066.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012065.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012064.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012063.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012062.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012042.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012043.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012067.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012068.jpg

[syborg tt]

Looks really strong

[Roberts68]

Beautiful workmanship. These two are like race car jewelry.:woot: http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012042.jpg
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt248/ironworksspeed/One%20Lap%20Camaro%20Part%202/11-12-2012043.jpg

[Vegas69]

Fantastic work....

[intocarss]

Beautiful!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

no more complaints....looking good guys

[Vince@Meanstreets]

be cool to see time lapse video of the whole process. :thumbsup:

[coolwelder62]

Look's perfect.Has it passed tech from Slo-Z/28 yet.:_paranoid

[ironworks]

Look's perfect.Has it passed tech from Slo-Z/28 yet.:_paranoid


Still waiting, Fingers crossed.

[Flash68]

:thumbsup: Pretty race car.

[bonecrrusher]

Those welds are looking great!

[Al Moreno]

Beautiful workmanship. These two are like race car jewelry.:woot:

WORD! Is that tig or mig?

[ironworks]

WORD! Is that tig or mig?

Come on. Really. MIG welding is for those that cannot TIG.

[MSTSFabbed]

Come on. Really. MIG welding is for those that cannot TIG.

Or are broke!! :rofl:

[MuscleExpressRyan]

Very nice work. :cheers:

[Al Moreno]

Come on. Really. MIG welding is for those that cannot TIG.

I thought it was to pretty to be mig but I was under the impression tig was mostly for body panels and mig was more for strength. Obviously I was mistaken. What do I know, LOL.