Looking to get an starter TIG...thoughts?

[Jay Hilliard]

I have been wanting to get a TIG welder and have been looking at the Miller Diversion 180. Any opinions/reviews on this welder or another one in that range?

This is for my home and will be used as a hobby machine. No need for a water cooled high end machine.

thanks.

[69x22]

Hey Jay, I bought a Miller EconoTig, I had to upgrade the tip, after doing that I am 100% satisfied with it. It can also weld Aluminum pretty good.

Looks like your wifes 69 is coming along nice!

[Jay Hilliard]

When did you buy the econotig? I didnt see them on Millers site, but I may have missed it. I have a friend who has an econotig for sale, but its a transformer style vs inverter. I have been told inverter technology is better with reduced power consumption, etc.

[ccracin]

Jay,

I am a beginner and just picked up a Lincoln Precision Tig 225. It's a transformer style, but has a pulser, ac/dc, post flow timer, and auto/manual balance adjustment. Plus the price is very nice. Check out the last page or 2 of my thread in the sig line below. There are pics of it. Love it so far!

[pokey64]

This thread made me wonder what we had in our shop at my office. My guys use a Miller Maxstar 150 STL to make up ss fittings. It seems like a nice little unit. But I really have no clue. I played with it today and it's only my second time tig welding...

[GNon18s]

I have a Lincoln precision tig 185 for 5 years now and nothing bad to say about it.

[68RS350]

Miller has the Diversion 165 and 180 that is fairly priced.

[Jay Hilliard]

Miller has the Diversion 165 and 180 that is fairly priced.

Yep, the 180 is the one I have been looking at.

[GregWeld]

I own a Miller 200 Dynasty DX.... It's an inverter style.

Jay -- spot on! No need for water cooling for a "hobby" welder... BUT I disagree on several other fronts. #1 being... once you go TIG you'll never go back. MIG is for trailer welding. :willy: :cheers: :woot: Joking here - but seriously - if it has to be welded - my FIRST choice is the TIG machine. I now view the MIG as "Miss Crudeness".

So... having said that.... it's like most things we do. You buy it - and then wish you'd have pulsing - and all the other little features that make life so nice and make the finished product nicer. And like most things - you didn't know you needed these features until you start using 'em. It's like heated seats in a car - easy to poo poo them - until you've used 'em - and then you can't have a car without 'em. Before then - they were a "silly" option.

I now wish I'd have stepped up and bought a larger TIG - because I really can't weld 1/4" or larger ALUMINUM well with mine and I tend to make brackets and stuff for myself or my friends that sometimes needs beefier stock. No can do with only 200 amps on tap. I can remedy that with a spool on my MIG machine cheaper than another bigger TIG so I live with my "little" 200.

Just my .02 here. Typically the initial cost is the killer -- but you're going to have this baby a LONG TIME... and you will absolutely LOVE TIG.... so sell your spare tractor and your wife and tap the house equity.... :lateral: :cheers: :woot: :rofl:

Shop around too! Prices are all over the board. Ebay has guys with free shipping and I'd also check your local hawk shop - so many people and shops have gone 'under' that there are some screamin' deals and lightly used equipment around!

[Jay Hilliard]

Thanks for the input Greg! Its always welcomed. I will check with a couple of local welding stores and see if they have any nice used machines.

[coolwelder62]

Jay, If you are just starting out a lincoln tig 225 is an awesome machine.You will want the smaller 20p style torch not the style 17p that a miller 185 or lincoln 225 comes with.Also ask for gas defuser lense it will make welding alum. and steel easier.Also ask for a 020ft. long torch not a 12ft.Jay I am full of info even if you don't want it.Scott

[Jay Hilliard]

Thanks Scott. Why the smaller torch? Whats the benefit? Whats a gas diffuser lense?

[lhkustoms]

Jay you may also want to take a look at Thermal Arc. I have their 185 Inverter ac/dc tig and it is awesome. I use it almost everyday. I also have a miller maxstar 150 w/ the hifi start. It works great also but its dc only. Go by your local welding store and ask them if they have and demo machines they have for sale. You usually can get them for a lot less and they are barely used.

[Jay Hilliard]

thanks Luke!

[coolwelder62]

Jay,the 20p series torch is smaller and easier to handle than the 17 series torch.The gas defuser lense give the weld zone better coverage of the argon flow. And better bead apearance.You can back the argon flow rate down a little bit and save money in gas useage over a period of time.:thumbsup: Scott

[Jay Hilliard]

Thanks for the info Scott. I went by a welding supply today and they didnt have a Miller tig in the place. I asked whats the deal and was told, they aren't selling. Economy is killing them. No used peices either.

[GregWeld]

Jay,the 20p series torch is smaller and easier to handle than the 17 series torch.The gas defuser lense give the weld zone better coverage of the argon flow. And better bead apearance.You can back the argon flow rate down a little bit and save money in gas useage over a period of time.:thumbsup: Scott

Good additional info Scott -- I made the switch to the smaller (air cooled) torch --- and gas lens.... FAR SUPERIOR!

Handiest TIG stuff I've bought - ever - a tungsten sharpener. I suck - so am forever contaminating the tungsten.... :>) The sharpener makes getting them all back in shape super easy and puts a perfect point on them. As any TIG welder knows - the shape of the tungsten is important.

[69x22]

When did you buy the econotig? I didnt see them on Millers site, but I may have missed it. I have a friend who has an econotig for sale, but its a transformer style vs inverter. I have been told inverter technology is better with reduced power consumption, etc.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/econotig/ here is the info on it. Depending on how much you are planning on using a tig is what would determine which one to get for me. I have no complaints with the econotig so far but I do not have allot of experience with it.

[GregWeld]

Econtig bit the dust... it's not offered anymore

If you just want CHEAP TIG machine then look at the Maxstar 150

It won't weld much - but if you're only interested in doing thin gauge materials then something like this is small and compact - inverter - with pulsing but no A/C... so you stick to steel and stainless steels. The move up to an A/C D/C machine is a large jump in price - but then you can weld aluminum - and for me - that's the reason you have a TIG for hot rodding. Lots of aluminum parts in my cars - brackets etc.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/product.php?model=M00143

[GregWeld]

I forgot to add that like most things in life it just all depends on how you're going to use it. Not having pulsing is not the end of the world for 95% of what we do in our hobby. It certainly helps on thin material (it does help with heat control).... but lots of times I just weld without it.

Having the Diversion model will allow you to do aluminum. For me - that would be more important than having a machine with pulsing but no A/C = ala the little Maxstar. But if you don't plan to do any aluminum - and just want to do bodywork and sheetmetal etc - then the Maxstar will get er done.

The beauty of these machines - they're all worth something should you decide you don't use it at all - or you want to move up. So either way - it's a decent investment - unlike the wifes vacation that is just money down the tube. :lol:

[70 chevelle]

Another alternative. Great guy to deal with.
http://www.htpweld.com/products/tig_welders/tig201.html

[GregWeld]

As with most things - you get what you pay for.

While the HTP is "okay" --- when you cut thru the BS on this website about how little the machine draws vs output etc -- that's all "selling the features that you have to talk about"

Nothing "wrong" with this... everyone does it. BUT - Huge BUTT...

This machine has a 35% duty cycle below 100 amps.... that means you can weld for 3.5 minutes out of every 10. My Miller Dynasty (admittedly not in the same league) has a 100% duty cycle below 100 amps.

Having said all of that --- I probably never weld for 3.5 minutes at one time - but you do weld for 10 minutes with lots of starting and stoping to reposition etc. But a 35% duty cycle would mean I can only weld for one minute in every 3 and that SUCKS BILGE WATER (an old boater phrase).

For home use - I think the machine would work just fine. But be sure what you're buying and really compare specs -- some of them are very important.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I mis-read the specs on this machine - so I must eat crow and retract my statement on the duty cycle. It IS 100% on this machine below 100 amps.... Sorry - MY MISTAKE!


I wanted to leave my original post about duty cycle up - rather than just slink off and delete it because the duty cycle is an issue and spec that should be compared. To someone reading this thread - it might be something they wouldn't otherwise think about. And for me - that is what these forums are all about. Helping and learning and sharing.

[clill]

I bought the Miller Diversion 180 at SEMA. I have not tried it yet but a friend came over that had never tig welded before, read the "Tig Welding for Dummies" book that comes with it and he was making nice looking welds within a hour. Nice piece for home use. And it is nice being able to do 110 or 220 volt by just changing the plug .

[coolwelder62]

I bought the Miller Diversion 180 at SEMA. I have not tried it yet but a friend came over that had never tig welded before, read the "Tig Welding for Dummies" book that comes with it and he was making nice looking welds within a hour. Nice piece for home use. And it is nice being able to do 110 or 220 volt by just changing the plug .

This is one of the best bang for the buck in a small tig machine.My son Kevin is also looking at a small tig and this is the one I said he should look at.One thing to think about is getting the machine worked on if something go's wrong.Miller's are made right here in the go old USA.HTP I think are made in Italy.HTP Part's have to came along way.Your local weldsuppy house can fix the miller,HTP will prob.need to get shiped some where.:thumbsup:

[Jay Hilliard]

Thanks for all the info Greg & Scott. Charlie, let me know how you like the Diversion 180 when you use it. Stick welding is not important to me, but tig welding sheetmetal and aluminum is.

[Sieg]

Anyone has experience with Thermal Arc products? They look to have a player.

http://www.thermadyne.com/thermalarc/products/detailProduct.html?prodID=10-3073A-2

[jimbo]

Are you going to take a welding class or just practice?
After looking at some of the fab work on here and some other sites I visit, I want to learn to do this:hail:

[lhkustoms]

Anyone has experience with Thermal Arc products? They look to have a player.

http://www.thermadyne.com/thermalarc/products/detailProduct.html?prodID=10-3073A-2

I have the Thermal Arc 185 and I love it. I have had it for over 4 years and I use it almost everyday.

[Jay Hilliard]

Are you going to take a welding class or just practice?
After looking at some of the fab work on here and some other sites I visit, I want to learn to do this:hail:

I am going to practice. I understand the basics of tig welding. My plan is to practice on scraps of steel & aluminum until I am happy with the look, etc and then use it to build a few shop projects, etc.

[Sieg]

I have the Thermal Arc 185 and I love it. I have had it for over 4 years and I use it almost everyday.
Luke - Thanks!

I am going to practice. I understand the basics of tig welding. My plan is to practice on scraps of steel & aluminum until I am happy with the look, etc and then use it to build a few shop projects, etc.
Jay - I spent a couple hours reading info at Miller's Resources page last night, here's some TIG specific chapters: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/

[Jay Hilliard]

Jay - I spent a couple hours reading info at Miller's Resources page last night, here's some TIG specific chapters: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/

Thanks for posting the info Sieg. Alot of useful reading.

[bdahlg68]

man, you guys are going to make me buy a tig which will put my project 2 grand behind!!!!

That Miller Diversion looks perfect for me as I currently don't have 230 going into my garage (not that tough to run, just don't want to spend the money on it). Is this going to be good out of the box, or could it also benefit from a better torch?

[Sieg]

I have the Thermal Arc 185 and I love it. I have had it for over 4 years and I use it almost everyday.

Just returned from the local welding shop and was talking with the repair tech. They sell Miller, Lincoln, and Thermal TIG's. He said for a small TIG that will produce good welds with aluminum the Thermal Arc 185 is the machine. He noted the next best value performer would be a $3,200 Miller.

[lhkustoms]

Welding aluminum with my Thermal Arc is awesome. I have used alot of different machines and I like the Thermal arc the best for welding aluminum.

[Blueflamespl]

Does anyone have any experiance with the Lincoln Square Wave 175? I found a new unused one locally at a good price. This will be for hobby use... bodywork and roll bars.

[coolwelder62]

I use to have a lincoln 175 that I would plug into my portable welder when I would weld at the sprint car race's.It was an awesome tig machine for anything 1/4" and thinner.

[74ls1nova]

I bought a diversion 180 a couple weeks ago. Having only used a tig once or twice before. I have practiced a little and have made so ok looking welds. After building my own headers and having to have someone else weld them i had to have one.

[out2kayak]

I have the Precision TIG 225 (http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K2535-1) that I've used mostly for steel variants that I've been happy with thus far. :thumbsup:

Can't say that I'm the worlds best welder (by day I'm a software architect), but I can do a decent bit of welding with it.

:cheers:

[Scott Hightower]

You can't go wrong with Miller but if you are looking for another option check out the Thermal Arc 160 S.

Scott
Fab Manager
Welders360.com (http://www.welders360.com/)

[Sti_Guy]

Id say get on craigslist and find youself a used SD180 or 200 for 1000-1500$ They are capacitor machines but hold up well and if your not trying to transport it all the time will kick but for years to come.

[jarhead]

allot of great information, thanks everyone

The Diversion 180 currently has a $500 rebate from Miller until 7/15/18

I think i am going to order one online, several of the retailers are also offering their own deals.

[RDuke]

Check out Invertig 221 if you are in the market too. Lots of great reviews and some good youtube reviews online. I have it on my list to purchase with the water cooler.

[Build-It-Break-it]

I'd order the HTP 221 before even thinking of ordering miller diversion 180.

[jarhead]

One of the things I am not liking about the Diversion after researching TIG welders in the entry level price range is the Inability to move the torch lead from the welder. I could not ever change that torch, well at least within the warranty period.

Thoughts on the Lincoln Square wave 200? it's $1661.00

https://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/lincoln-square-wave-tig-200-tig-welder-k5126-1-with-25-lowes-gift-card/

My budget maxes out at $1500 in reality, that's why I was looking att he Diversion with the rebate...

EDIT,
Thanks also to Ahmad (and others) for suggesting the Invertig. I am looking at this one, I would need to wait a year to get it, maybe longer...
http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=70221-12.5

I've been watching Craiglist, not much locally that folks don't want the original price for...

[GregWeld]

Ask the wife if she has the time for a third full time job.......

[jarhead]

Ask the wife if she has the time for a third full time job.......

OMG :confused59::lmao:

[TheJDMan]

Dm7QXCtYFQo&t=10s

[rallystyle]

how about a miller multimatic 215 with tig setup. it does not have a/c for the tig but could use a spool gun. any thoughts on a setup like this?

[GregWeld]

how about a miller multimatic 215 with tig setup. it does not have a/c for the tig but could use a spool gun. any thoughts on a setup like this?


Save up a little more and get a machine that will do more for you down the road.

Remember --- when they say will do "up to" such and such..... yeah --- well have you ever maxed out your truck and while yes it will pull "X" -- it's not happy about it. LOL


Seriously --- a TIG machine without some minimal features -- and A/C and D/C TIG welding is a must -- not to mention other features you'll want to use...

And this machine won't run 6011 stick.... pretty common stick.

I'd get a "BETTER" MIG only machine if I had 1500/2000 to spend.... and if I needed some TIG work -- take it to someone and have 'em do it for ya. When you can get a TIG machine - then take the plunge.

[FaBrycation]

couldn't agree more Greg. I have a Miller sycrowave 210 and I love it. its a medium duty TIG that is great for most every car application AC and DC and it comes with a spool gun if you need a heavier duty Mig welder. I have a separate Miller 141 MIG for doing lighter duty MIG work. I really love my 210 it is a great machine!

[rallystyle]

Would you go for a used dynasty 200dx or a htp 210 if the prices where about the same?

[GregWeld]

Would you go for a used dynasty 200dx or a htp 210 if the prices where about the same?



200DX --- GREAT little machine

[FaBrycation]

I agree completely. the dynasty machines are awesome

[jovande]

Anyone got any experience tigging with an ESAB Rebel?

[Pantera1889]

I have a Lincoln TIG 200. I have been very impressed with it so far. I bought it to replace the Eastwood TIG that was a huge disappointment.

Ron

[craig510]

Anyone got any experience tigging with an ESAB Rebel?

They are scratch start only. Not too impressed after seeing it at sema. I have the Lincoln TIG200 and it works great for home use.

[jarhead]

I'd order the HTP 221 before even thinking of ordering miller diversion 180.

Received the HTP 221 for Christmas, my family all went in on it.

I have been remodeling a house in another state since mid-December so I have not got much time in on it.