1971 Firebird Build ("The Other Woman", a.k.a. Project "T.O.W.")

[GregWeld]

Gearing is always going to be an issue once you start hitting the "track"... what's just right for a GG peanut course - is going to be wrong for the road race track... toss in different tire diameters - torque curves - trans gearing.... car weight....

Bryan -- I think the BBQ pit rotisserie at The Salt Lick is wound up to about 5 rpm... but I think it's a torque monster.


I'm running 4:30's in the '32 and 3:50 something in the '33..... LOL

[chichirone]

We are running 3.42's in KLRBRD. It cruises along at 70 mph at around 2000 rpm. Running the GG's auto cross at TMS I leave it in first gear and Amy runs it in 2nd gear. Driver preference.

Amy told me she was stuck choosing between 1st and 2nd on the auto cross and the speed stop at USCA. She ended up most comfortable staying in 1st gear during the speed stop and then 2nd gear on the autocross.

Out on the road is what she enjoys the most with the 3.42's just cruising along.

[WSSix]

I kept the drivetrain stock in my 96 Formula and really liked it for autocross around here. I'd leave it in 2nd for most of the courses.

I'm trying 3.90s with the TA now. Trans and engine are the same ones from the Formula for now. I don't plan to modify the trans gearing at all. The engine will be a 383. I just wanted to try something different.

I've driven cars that make as much power as your car and had 3.90 gears. They were no fun on the street for the reason you described. You blow through 1st and 2nd so fast.

[carbuff]

Gearing is always going to be an issue once you start hitting the "track"... what's just right for a GG peanut course - is going to be wrong for the road race track... toss in different tire diameters - torque curves - trans gearing.... car weight....

Agreed. I'm not trying to be perfect for every scenario, but I think for most of the events I run, the higher gear may be the better choice. I have enough torque that even a slow autocross course in first gear shouldn't be a problem. :)


Bryan -- I think the BBQ pit rotisserie at The Salt Lick is wound up to about 5 rpm... but I think it's a torque monster.

Nothing like the 1000HP steam engines on a steamboat which appeared to be moving at about 50rpm that I saw yesterday. Now THAT'S some torque!

I'm running 4:30's in the '32 and 3:50 something in the '33..... LOL

One for you, one for Gwen. ;)

We are running 3.42's in KLRBRD. It cruises along at 70 mph at around 2000 rpm. Running the GG's auto cross at TMS I leave it in first gear and Amy runs it in 2nd gear. Driver preference.

That sounds about right at 70MPH. I don't actually want to have my RPM too low or I'll end up with a lot of exhaust noise at cruise speed.

Amy told me she was stuck choosing between 1st and 2nd on the auto cross and the speed stop at USCA. She ended up most comfortable staying in 1st gear during the speed stop and then 2nd gear on the autocross.

Same here. I finally stuck with the 1st gear after I figured out the shift was hurting me. I was running the USCA autocross in 2nd after the initial shift. Steve was actually launching in 2nd on some runs as an experiment.

[Flash68]

I really like that Magnum with the 2.29 1st gear like Tim has. I would call that about perfect if you have a respectable level of low/mid range torque... which you seem to have. :)

[carbuff]

Teaser shots for upcoming updates. :)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150815_165205_zpsjhu4khyt.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150815_165205_zpsjhu4khyt.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134448_zpsm3vtesrj.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134448_zpsm3vtesrj.jpg.html)

[glassman]

Dang look at you with the heart of beast out!!!

Keep um comin!!

btw, my beast's hearts coming out this weekend as i have boxes from TSP coming :thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Didn't you just scramble to get that engine in there and now you've gone and torn it down again? You're crazy man! Good luck :thumbsup: :D

[carbuff]

It's true, I did just rebuild it earlier this year. I thrashed away for 2 months to get it back together for the GG and USCA events in March. After I made my selections and had parts rolling in, I discovered a few things which I wish I had done differently. I just didn't have the time to make the changes and still have time to make the events.

Fast forward to July. Eric and I have been trying to fix a vibration in the driveline at speed on the highway. We determined that we were going to have to make some changes to the torque arm to address it (we had no adjustability the way it was). So TOW went back to Eric's, and we developed a plan.

As these things tend to go, the scope of the project grew. Ron Sutton and I have been talking for a while about ideas on how to install a sway bar on the rear of TOW. With everything I have going on under the car (torque arm, Watt's link, exhaust over the axle), there was just no good place to mount one. But after seeing a couple of other people run bars through the trunk (typically more race or hardcore applications), I started thinking about ways to do that with TOW. And Eric and I came up with a plan.

I'll give more details on all of that work later, as it's still a work in progress. But the point of that background was that TOW was going to be down for a few weeks. One thing led to another, and I decided to take the opportunity to address the things I didn't get to do in the engine originally. I knew I would have the time, and so I dove in.

The list of changes I'm making to the engine:


Low-Lash solid roller cam (slightly bigger and a bit more overlap, targeting mid-range torque)
Crower Solid Roller lifters
Crower Stainless Steel Adjustable shaft rocker system
PAC 0.700" lift double springs (just a small step up from what I had)
Holley billet fuel rails
FIC 62# Fuel Injectors
1/2" carb spacer under the throttle body (more plenum volume)


I debated heavily whether or not to do this, but it turns out that I'm glad I did. When I started the disassembly, I found some oil in the intake runners and plenum. With just 2k miles on the clock since the rebuild, this was concerning, especially since I wasn't yet running my PCV setup. Turns out that I didn't seal the threads on the rocker studs, not realizing that they opened up into the runners. I found some pretty caked on burned mess on the top of the pistons which I proceeded to scrub off. Lesson learned.

I carried the heads back up to Frankenstein who ported and assembled them originally and had him clean them up and set up the new springs. Oil issue aside, he really liked what he saw from the burn pattern on the heads. We didn't see any signs of reversion in the ports either, but we could tell that a couple of cylinders were running rich from the exhaust ports. I recalled that I purchased and installed a set of fuel injectors used, without any data on them, so I decided that I would replace them with a new set that are flow matched.

I ordered the new cam from Kip at Cam Motion after a couple of conversations with he and a few others in the LS community. Kip has been building these low-lash solid roller setups for a while, and several people seem to be running them on the street with good success. For me, I'm looking for an increase in my midrange torque production for the events that I do, but I'll also get some more RPM out of the motor with the solid valvetrain which will help with the 1st gear autocrosses. I'm looking forward to the change!

So this past weekend was reassembly time. I spent 2 full days at Eric's getting the cam in, degreed, installing the heads and reassembling the core support items (oil cooler, condenser, radiator, PS cooler). Took longer than I expected, and I'm not done, but I'm held up needing to get a new set of pushrods now). I'm ordering those today, should be able to put it back together next week. I still have time as Eric will finish up the suspension work this week and get parts out for powder coating next week...

I did this as much to satisfy my curiousity about this SR setup as anything, and frankly I needed something to tinker with. Hopefully I see some nice gains from it without giving up too much drivability. I'm not too worried given my research. And TOW needed a little more 'growl'. ;)

I'll update more soon with pictures of the rear suspension work once it's closer to wrapped up. Softening up the rear springs is going to make those Fort Worth drives a little more pleasant. It should also help plant the rear a little better coming off the turns. At the Optima USCA event, things were squirrely (as proven by one of my jaunts off course), so this should definitely help!

[chichirone]

Ok man...we all have been patient enough. It's been 2 days and no pics? C'mon. BYB!

Sounds like a lot of exciting stuff going on with TOW. I am looking forward to the suspension pics. :popcorn2:

[carbuff]

Unfortunately we are at a standstill at the moment. Eric had to travel to attend to some family business on short notice, so fab won't be done this week. I can share a few pictures of the progress though.

Here are some of the early shots of the sway bar arm mock up.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134459_zpsadbpjgea.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134459_zpsadbpjgea.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134455_zpsurlw3szg.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134455_zpsurlw3szg.jpg.html)

Apparently it took a lot of heat to get this shape:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_184048_zpsnvcmpigk.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_184048_zpsnvcmpigk.jpg.html)

This is how the bar itself is mounted: through the trunk. Delrin bushings go in the ends of the tube to center the bar and allow rotation:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134442_zpsthuyj87o.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134442_zpsthuyj87o.jpg.html)

Shot before the frame rail cuts:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150822_105305_zpsxjagzvlv.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150822_105305_zpsxjagzvlv.jpg.html)

These arm mount holes were too long, so after talking to Ron, we determined that using shorter holes on the arm was actually going to be better. Now we can get a more vertical angle for the links:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_174502_zpsakhttjjz.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_174502_zpsakhttjjz.jpg.html)

Some of Eric's handywork. :)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134448_zpsm3vtesrj.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150826_134448_zpsm3vtesrj.jpg.html)

I don't have any more pictures of the torque arm since he started cutting it, but here you can see what we are after. Shortening the arm and making mounts to attach it to the bottom of the housing to allow rotation. We will get rid of the pinion mount plate and the 2 bars you see will control the pinion angle. We believe this should work well for us.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150707_132937_zpsrveneufn.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150707_132937_zpsrveneufn.jpg.html)

As part of this, Eric built new crossmembers for both the transmission and the torque arm mount. I don't have pictures, but I'll get some next week once we are back on it again.

[carbuff]

Here are a couple of pictures which you can mock me for. :)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_201904_zpsmoutoihv.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_201904_zpsmoutoihv.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_201924_zpsmv9l9kpq.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_201924_zpsmv9l9kpq.jpg.html)

[carbuff]

A few more shots of the reassembly:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_131214_zpsuy00ya59.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_131214_zpsuy00ya59.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_191152_zpspozvrzpj.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150827_191152_zpspozvrzpj.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_133010_zpslft9g9il.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_133010_zpslft9g9il.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_133021_zpspyyipyky.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_133021_zpspyyipyky.jpg.html)

A good bit of elbow grease required to clean up those pistons:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_133035_zpsyk49ynom.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_133035_zpsyk49ynom.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_134005_zpsqlcktfyn.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_134005_zpsqlcktfyn.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_151837_zpsevvi0m1m.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_151837_zpsevvi0m1m.jpg.html)

Working to get the wipe pattern correct. It was too high here, but came out about perfect after the addition of some shims.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_170550_zpsy6qcwhyf.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150829_170550_zpsy6qcwhyf.jpg.html)

[Panteracer]

Byan,
you guys are doing some fabbing here
Cool stuff

Bob

[WSSix]

Awesome work by Eric! Sounds like it's going to be a fun ride with the changes. Good luck, Bryan.

[carbuff]

Thanx guys! I'm really looking forward to the next step in the evolution. I'll definitely get some more pics when we have her back up on the lift. Hopefully next week when we are both back from traveling.

[chichirone]

Looking great Bryan. I am really intrigued with the rear sway bar. Will you enclose it through the trunk or is it my imagination it is still under the trunk floor out of sight. :hairpullout:

Also, will any of these changes with the sway bar and revised torque arm setup effect spring rate?


When will the Frankenstein be back to life? I am curious if the cam and head change effect the sweet exhaust sound of TOW. Still one of my favorites from the USCA videos I have from this past March.

[glassman]

Man dude, your short block is in waaaay clean shape!! Is it new? Mine looks nothing like that ( a lil used and abused)

Fun stuff!! But funner driving...

[carbuff]

Looking great Bryan. I am really intrigued with the rear sway bar. Will you enclose it through the trunk or is it my imagination it is still under the trunk floor out of sight. :hairpullout:

Also, will any of these changes with the sway bar and revised torque arm setup effect spring rate?


When will the Frankenstein be back to life? I am curious if the cam and head change effect the sweet exhaust sound of TOW. Still one of my favorites from the USCA videos I have from this past March.

Thanx Jay. I will try to get a picture of the sway bar mount this week, but I may not get there until Friday. To give you an idea, Eric ran a 40+" piece of 1 3/4" chrome moly tube all the way through the trunk. So yes, it does go through the trunk, but the trunk will not be exposed to the outside. Eric will weld the tube to the trunk floor and new brackets once everything is finalized.

And yes, we are definitely changing the rear springs. We are softening things up significantly, which will help both the ride quality as well as the loose-on-exit problem I was having during the USCA event (leading to one of my offs).

The engine should be back together this week. We are not sure yet if we are going to have to cut and re-route any of the exhaust or not though. We are going to try and keep the over-the-axle pipes we have now, even if we have to clearance them a bit. To me, the engine note changed very little with the engine changes earlier this year, and like you, I'm curious as to what this round will do. I would expect that the higher cam overlap will be the biggest change, but I expect that when on the throttle it will sound pretty similar.

Man dude, your short block is in waaaay clean shape!! Is it new? Mine looks nothing like that ( a lil used and abused)

Fun stuff!! But funner driving...

This is the engine which went into the car back in March, build by TSP. When I pulled the heads, it wasn't so clean:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150815_165327_zpsgrtielvx.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150815_165327_zpsgrtielvx.jpg.html)

It took a lot of careful scrubbing to clean that all off...

[carbuff]

Not the best photo, but the engine is back together. I have some plumbing and electrical work to do, which I hope to finish tomorrow. We won't be able to fire it up for a few days though as Eric is still working on the suspension.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150915_203847_zps5uw56ozc.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150915_203847_zps5uw56ozc.jpg.html)

New fuel rails. Holley rails on the Edelbrock intake. :) The Holley rails are 5/8" inside and use -8 fittings, which supposedly allows for better balance across the 2 sides. I like the nicer black finish. :)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150915_183811_zpsapmfufwl.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150915_183811_zpsapmfufwl.jpg.html)

Back at it tomorrow...

[chichirone]

Good progress Bryan. I could stare at the engine pic for hours. (Good pic or not...:) )

The Holley EFI rails look great. I would love to paint the MSD rails on KLRBRD just like yours. What TBI are you using...I have an assumption of the Holley part but...you know what happens when you assume. I would rather make it clear to you I'm an a$$ by asking a dumb question! :knokwood:

[andrewb70]

Looks like an Accel throttle body.

Andrew

[waynieZ]

It looks good, you have a lot of nice parts going in there. I like how you did the rear sway bar. Nice work.

[carbuff]

I have a Frankenstein intake setup. The manifold is from Edelbrock, the fuel rails are now from Holley, and the TB is from Accel. :) As best I can tell, Accel does make/sell the same one anymore for some reason. I've been really happy with it. I chose it because it was shortest one I could find (someone here or at PT.com recommended it to me), and hood clearance was at a premium.

Eric and I are going to replace the factory seal with something shorter, which is giving me more clearance. I'm taking advantage of that to add yet another piece to the Frankenstein intake setup: a Moroso carb spacer. ;) I put a 1/2" one on this week (after a little grinding to open it up).

[carbuff]

Eric has everything ready to go to powder coating. He ground down the welds on the axle housing as we had a few small leaks and rewelded them. We also had to remake the Watt's link bars and the LCAs. Hopefully the PC process will go quickly, as we're under 2 weeks now to departure! :\

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150919_105435_zpsussi8rln.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/download_20150919_105435_zpsussi8rln.jpg.html)

[glassman]

Nice work!! photos showed up the other day on my desktop, but i cant view them now from my ipad (of the latest).

I'm rewireing and heads n cam and new accessorie drive on mine as we type.

Fun to play with legos in the garage huh? or is your car still at Erics?

Whens your new test run? (didnt see your last sentence)

[rat_rod_russell]

If you want to bring them down to Luling I can turn them around in 48 hours if you just want them black.

-Russell

[carbuff]

Russell,

Thanx for the offer, I do appreciate it, but Eric has dropped them off at the local guy. And we are doing 2 different colors on the different pieces also. :\ You aren't that far from me though, so I'll keep this in mind for the future for sure!

So this is where the car sits as of last night:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150922_204956_zpsgn91itdx.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150922_204956_zpsgn91itdx.jpg.html)

7 days to departure. Yikes!

Here is a shot of the brackets Eric made all welded into place...

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150922_204928_zpsxxtn7iyc.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150922_204928_zpsxxtn7iyc.jpg.html)

Cleanup, seam seal, and paint coming shortly.

Here is a shot of the adjustable Watt's bellcrank mount which Ron Sutton sells. Eric had some fun cutting the crossmember and wedging this into place yesterday. :)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150922_204052_zpsrdskbnrn.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150922_204052_zpsrdskbnrn.jpg.html)

Part are scheduled to be ready from PC on Thursday (fingers crossed), so we have a long weekend ahead. I reassembled the GA3's last night after having the centers recoated, it takes a long time to install and torque 30 bolts per wheel! I have a little bit of electrical work to do on the engine, then install all of the suspension components, hope that we're not missing anything, and also hope that the engine fires up ok! Fun weekend ahead. :)

[rat_rod_russell]

Russell,

Thanx for the offer, I do appreciate it, but Eric has dropped them off at the local guy. And we are doing 2 different colors on the different pieces also. :\ You aren't that far from me though, so I'll keep this in mind for the future for sure!


No worries, The PT crowd in the central Texas area is small so I like to help where I can and I'm sure the drive to Luling wouldn't make it worth the price for future powder coating. I've just worked under the gun before on a project like this and you still have to do some shake down and tweaking to be competitive before you can leave on top the rest of the work you need to do. So I figured I'd offer to speed things up a little, my appartment is in the shop so I can do stuff like that. But I don't stock a lot of colors so that would have blow the time line right out of the water anyways.

I stock various press in AN fittings and hoses as well as rod ends and a few other things I don't normally offer to the general public. If you get in a pinch in the middle of the weekend or even late at night just google the Nerd Rods number and call or text me on it, I'll help if I can.

Good luck!
-Russell

[carbuff]

That is good to know. No telling how many times I've paid the overnight fee to Summit for parts like that. And this weekend will be a thrash! Hopefully I've gotten through all of the plumbing, but we will have to remake the brake lines. Little things that take a lot of time!

As for the time shake down, that will likely happen on I-35N on Wednesday unfortunately! There is a Spokes event on Saturday, but I won't make that... Heck, I probably won't even get on a dyno before Wednesday. Thankfully the Holley HP EFI is good at self-tuning and my map shouldn't need to change much. I'll be able to do some idle tuning myself before I go.

[rat_rod_russell]

That is good to know. No telling how many times I've paid the overnight fee to Summit for parts like that. And this weekend will be a thrash! Hopefully I've gotten through all of the plumbing, but we will have to remake the brake lines. Little things that take a lot of time!

As for the time shake down, that will likely happen on I-35N on Wednesday unfortunately! There is a Spokes event on Saturday, but I won't make that... Heck, I probably won't even get on a dyno before Wednesday. Thankfully the Holley HP EFI is good at self-tuning and my map shouldn't need to change much. I'll be able to do some idle tuning myself before I go.

We did the same thing before the 09 Optima event in Vegas. Pushed the truck into the SEMA show and drove it out. Tuned on the dyno at 2AM then went to the race a few hours later. I wish you better luck than we had. But you're manly doing a refresh we did a fresh build with the added complication of twin turbos and a critical differential component I built and hadn't really tested yet. You'll be good.

You might take the back way up 183, 281, 220 and 67 into fort worth. There are a few hills and the stop and go of small highway over interstates will give the computer more data to crunch. Plus you can run more various RMP's and not have to avoid traffic at the same time. I'm normally in Denton at least once a month and I've actually gone faster that way depending on the 35 constructions. Worst case it added 45 minutes to the trip.

And I have AN-3, -4 stuff out the butt, all black aluminum or cadmium plated steel. Brake lines and fuel lines on the frames we build is a big part of what I call "the parts that will kill you" and a lot of guys want us to do them for their piece of mind.

Good luck!

[carbuff]

Grr, this powder coater is killing me! Looks like late tomorrow for the parts now. They better be ready or my head may explode...

Only got a little bit of work done today. The one picture-worthy item was coilover reassembly. Ron Sutton supplied a new pair of springs and some bump stops for the rear set, so I put those together tonight. I purchased a pair of 0-rate springs due to the amount of droop the rear sees when raised. It causes the springs to unload from the coilover, and did some damage to the shock bodies (I had Ridetech replace / rebuild them, through Ron). Don't want to repeat that problem.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150924_193148_zpsadd89vrs.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150924_193148_zpsadd89vrs.jpg.html)

Hopefully I'll have some more interesting pictures to show of the reassembly this weekend.

[GregWeld]

Oh yeah -- ya got the PURPLE springs! They're fast! LOL

[SSLance]

Man, I need a set of those 0-rate springs too. Did you get those through Ron and if so, how much were they?

Good luck on getting the parts, sure hope I get to see TOW in person next week.


Grr, this powder coater is killing me! Looks like late tomorrow for the parts now. They better be ready or my head may explode...

Only got a little bit of work done today. The one picture-worthy item was coilover reassembly. Ron Sutton supplied a new pair of springs and some bump stops for the rear set, so I put those together tonight. I purchased a pair of 0-rate springs due to the amount of droop the rear sees when raised. It causes the springs to unload from the coilover, and did some damage to the shock bodies (I had Ridetech replace / rebuild them, through Ron). Don't want to repeat that problem.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150924_193148_zpsadd89vrs.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150924_193148_zpsadd89vrs.jpg.html)

Hopefully I'll have some more interesting pictures to show of the reassembly this weekend.

[carbuff]

Oh yeah -- ya got the PURPLE springs! They're fast! LOL

And my secret weapon is the set of purple bump stops that match, courtesy of Mr. Sutton. :)

[carbuff]

Man, I need a set of those 0-rate springs too. Did you get those through Ron and if so, how much were they?

Good luck on getting the parts, sure hope I get to see TOW in person next week.

Lance,

I actually got those through Pegasus Racing. Bloody expensive too for what looks like such simple pieces. (I actually ended up with an extra of the spring... if you are seriously thinking of getting a set, I'll throw it in the car and bring it with me next week for you)

First I bought two of these (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=1876)...

Then I needed two of these (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=1877)...

And finally I needed 2 sets of these (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hal-7888-109)...

But that still comes out cheaper than having to replace a shock body, and really is a nice solution to the spring falling loose when you raise the car.

I'll be at Ron's seminar no matter what next week, but I sure hope that TOW is with me. Look forward to meeting you!

Bryan

[SSLance]

I haven't really noticed any damage to my shock bodies yet, but I hate the BANG every time I set the car back down and the spring slips onto the top spring collar and sets itself in place. Thanks for the parts link, that sounds like a good plan.

I toyed with the idea of bringing Barney down with me next week but it just isn't in the cards. I hope to get to see everyone's cars that are there though including TOW.

[carbuff]

Sorry to hear Barney won't make it. I was hoping to get to check it out!

I was surprised how much my springs were rubbing on the shock bodies. But they were unloading by at least 2" if not more, which may have affected that...

[Gscherer78ta]

Lance,



I'll be at Ron's seminar no matter what next week, but I sure hope that TOW is with me. Look forward to meeting you!

Bryan

Hey Bryan,

I too hope to see TOW again but, I will see you at the workshop! If the weather is good, I'll bring my TA. Are you sticking around thru the weekend to autocross at GG's? I wish they would allow my '78 in and I could run with you guys!

Greg

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Oh yeah -- ya got the PURPLE springs! They're fast! LOL

if not fast just plain Fabulous :flashie:

what spring rate are you using B?

[GrabberGT]

Hey Bryan,

I too hope to see TOW again but, I will see you at the workshop! If the weather is good, I'll bring my TA. Are you sticking around thru the weekend to autocross at GG's? I wish they would allow my '78 in and I could run with you guys!

Greg

I've been informed that Goodguys has arranged to have a band playing at the host hotel Thursday night. So bring your lawn chairs and coolers. We'll sit outside and watch the cruisers pull in for registration and packet pick-up. Im sure there will be plenty of discussion on how our cars have been set up allllll wrong all this time.

[carbuff]

Hey Bryan,

I too hope to see TOW again but, I will see you at the workshop! If the weather is good, I'll bring my TA. Are you sticking around thru the weekend to autocross at GG's? I wish they would allow my '78 in and I could run with you guys!

Greg

My plan is to be there until Sunday, although I will only run Friday and Saturday. I agree on the year limits, but you can run on Sunday, right?

if not fast just plain Fabulous :flashie:

what spring rate are you using B?

450# now. Dropping from a 700#. Should make for a little more comfortable ride up the highway. :)

[carbuff]

First time in a while I've seen this!

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_190914_zpszg2ygkyg.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_190914_zpszg2ygkyg.jpg.html)

We have had a long weekend, but we have made a lot of progress. I would have preferred things to have gone quicker, but I know that we've done them right by taking our time.

I managed to start the engine today with no problems at all after the cam swap. That was HUGE sigh of relief for me. It's the first time I've been inside of an LS engine, and while most of the work was familiar, it's still a bit worrisome doing it the first time. The Holley ECU made things pretty easy: set up the new fuel injectors, made a couple of tweaks, and spun her up. She fired right up, just didn't want to idle well at first. An adjustment to the throttle body adjuster for the primary blades and everything was good. I had to pull a good bit of fuel out of the tables, and I have a lot less vacuum than before, so I have some tuning to do before I hit the highway.

Eric recreated the carpet pieces for the trunk to clear the sway bar tube. He did a great job as always! I did a lot of little things today to wrap up the project: rewired the Accusump, cleaned the air filters, cleaned up my mess from all the fluids under the car, filled in a few rock chips, attached the axle and gas tank vent lines. Just stuff I had to knock out.

At this point, Eric will bleed the brakes and wrap up a relatively short list of remaining items. He expects to get those done tomorrow, and I'll go up after work and drive for a while. If we find any problems, we'll address them tomorrow night. Then a bolt check, and a serious bath, and my tuning, and I should be ready to hit the road Wednesday.

It's been a crazy stretch to get this together, and I can't thank Eric enough for sticking in there to get it done. He is planning to take a few well-deserved days off later this week. :)

Here are a couple of pictures of the completed work:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_162027_zpshp5hcpzd.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_162027_zpshp5hcpzd.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_162035_zpskvommd39.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_162035_zpskvommd39.jpg.html)

Trunk mounted panel with amp, cross overs, and VaporWerks controller:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_150733_zpsb1du4mdx.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150927_150733_zpsb1du4mdx.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194452_zpskkbcpmtb.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194452_zpskkbcpmtb.jpg.html)

Perfectly tucked (although we're going to adjust the spacers a bit):

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194444_zpssrcfunwj.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194444_zpssrcfunwj.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194434_zpsxj7dnd4h.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194434_zpsxj7dnd4h.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194421_zpsanrthfye.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194421_zpsanrthfye.jpg.html)

New Watt's link housing mount:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194127_zpstwmn4q14.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194127_zpstwmn4q14.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194052_zpsvpm648rx.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150926_194052_zpsvpm648rx.jpg.html)

[Flash68]

450# now. Dropping from a 700#. Should make for a little more comfortable ride up the highway. :)

Originally at 700/500 I think?

[GregWeld]

Glad you and Eric are getting it done Bryan!!


Wish you all the luck!

[carbuff]

Originally at 700/500 I think?

Correct. Then Ron flipped it to be 500 (front) / 700 (rear). When I received the shocks, I remember calling him to confirm that I didn't have them backwards. Never expected that high of a rear rate, but without the rear bar, it worked. I can't wait to try this new setup out!

[carbuff]

Glad you and Eric are getting it done Bryan!!


Wish you all the luck!

Thanx! Wish you were making it back to FW again. I'm looking forward to this coming week, but admittedly will enjoy taking the next week off myself...

[waynieZ]

That's a sweet setup.

[gerno]

Where's the video of the engine running with the new cam????

[SSLance]

I've been informed that Goodguys has arranged to have a band playing at the host hotel Thursday night. So bring your lawn chairs and coolers. We'll sit outside and watch the cruisers pull in for registration and packet pick-up. Im sure there will be plenty of discussion on how our cars have been set up allllll wrong all this time.

The Marriott is the host hotel, right? If so, cool...we are in!!

[silver63c10]

Glad to see it back together again, Bryan. That swaybar setup is SAH-WEET. Some amazing packaging going on back there.

Good luck and safe travels to Goodguys! Wish I could make it out to see everyone but I'll be out of town.

[GrabberGT]

The Marriott is the host hotel, right? If so, cool...we are in!!

Yes it is. We can do GG registration packet pick up and the class at the same location
:idea:

[carbuff]

She's home! First drive this afternoon went perfectly. We fixed the vibration problem that was the initial goal for this work as best I can tell. The new rear gear brings the RPM down at highway speeds which felt great. The new rear springs make for a more comfortable ride. In the 2 or 3 turns I could do at all aggressively, the rear felt a touch more compliant. The engine is running great, given the limited tuning so far. All in all, things have come out great!

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_224535_zpshdnjw2ta.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_224535_zpshdnjw2ta.jpg.html)

Here are some final shots of the assembled sway bar arms. Not sure I've taken/posted these yet...

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171953_zpsqn95qjie.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171953_zpsqn95qjie.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171948_zpsapc4i1wy.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171948_zpsapc4i1wy.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171936_zpswbrd0wr9.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171936_zpswbrd0wr9.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171931_zpst9xllvi5.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171931_zpst9xllvi5.jpg.html)

[SSLance]

I love it when a plan comes together...

[cpd004]

Awesome! Definitely looking forward to continued driving impressions.

[RussMurco]

I knew you'd pull it off! Car looks great and sounds like it will be more fun to drive!

[chichirone]

Bryan, TOW looks great. Stoked for you.

Totally bummed Amy and I will miss seeing you (and everyone else) at the GG's event this weekend since we moved north.

The sway bar is a beauty! The watts link looks terrific with the new set up. Really interested in your driving impressions. I (and Steve too) better get a a video of TOW on the auto-x. :snapout:

Hope you had a safe drive north. Have a great time at the Sutton workshop. Make sure you get to Babe's in Roanoke. Chicken fried steak and fried chicken all around!

[carbuff]

A quick update for everyone... TOW and I made the drive up to Fort Worth ok on Wednesday. Other than not having time to do much tuning, the new engine setup worked great. The suspension was the same. A nice ride up, definitely a bit softer, and cruised the highway great.

I'll write more later, but here is the result of the GG autocross. I finished second by about 3-tenths. I actually led after day 1, and after the first 3 rounds of the second day. One of Mike Dusold's customers with a first gen made a great run and took the lead over me by a half second. He improved again next run to get to a 0.9 second lead.

Late in the day I discovered that my rear shock settings were not set where I expected them to be. I'd been driving with them several clicks off all day. Not sure how that happened, but it certainly wasn't helping. After fixing those, and at the suggestion of Ron Sutton, I also dropped the rear Watt's mount a bit. The next run I picked up almost 3-tenths. I was getting more confident with the car, driving it harder, so the next run I pushed more. That got me another 3 tenths, but it just wasn't enough to take over the lead. I was certainly gaining on the leader and on the car setup, but just ran out of time.

I had a lot of challenges to overcome this weekend (power steering not working, oil fire in the engine compartment, engine tuning not right) to even finish the event, so I am really pleased with the result. That said, I'm human, and competitive, and I really wanted to get that first GG win! But with all that changed recently, I have to hang my head high and be proud of where I ended up. I'm ready for some rest now, but I wish the Spring event were happening next weekend already. :)

Before I end this, a big thanx to Steve Gernon, Chris Moore, Kyle Tucker (yes, that Kyle Tucker), Ron Sutton, as well as Gary Lockmore (not certain if he's on LatG) for the help and moral support this weekend!!! You hear this all the time, but it really proved true for me this weekend: the people involved in this hobby are for the most part really awesome people! There were several others as well who I don't think are here that lent a hand and helped get me through a long weekend...

Time to rest up for the road trip home tomorrow. More soon...

[chichirone]

Bryan, great job this weekend. Tracking your progress all weekend, you and TOW were deep in the thick of things competing for your 1st GG's win. 2nd position is no slouch considering the high caliber of cars in your class. You overcame a thrash to even get the car ready and a number of hurdles at the event. You should be VERY proud of what you and TOW accomplished.

Safe travels back to Austin tomorrow. Cheers!

[SSLance]

Wish I could have stuck around to watch the racing, sounds like it was a blast all weekend. Was great to finally meet all of you in person, can't wait until we get to line them up on the track together some day. How was it having your own personal setup consultant right there at the track with you on race day? :D What a bonus right?!?!

Congrats on the successful weekend Bryon. I'd be pretty damn proud of your results for sure.

[GregWeld]

Fantastic Bryan!!!



We're all proud of you!! The thrash and a dash for the cash... Just awesome!

[glassman]

Oil fire in the engine compartment? that sh!t is scarry!!! Hope it was minor and your drive home is "boring".....Cheers to your sucess on one step closer!!!

[carbuff]

Unfortunately yes, oil fire. But let me back up a second...

Friday morning I started the day with some power steering troubles. Specifically I was having low-speed problems with low-assist. As everyone was setting up, I saw Kyle Tucker over near his car, so I walked over to see if he had any suggestions (I have one of their pumps on my car). He suggested we look over the car and see if he could see any issues. We did and didn't find anything. He said to drive it one run and see how it felt, and he would check in with me.

So I ran my first run, and the assist felt "notchy". By that I mean, it would kick in and out mid-turn. Quite disconcerting! True to his word, Kyle checked in with me after the run, and I told him what I experienced. He asked if he could drive it to see what it was doing, so he did. He agreed something was wrong. He recommended I drive it one more run and then replace the flow control valve if it was still happening. It was, so he went and got one for me, pulled out his tools and helped me replace it. The one we pulled out was smaller than the one we replaced it with, meaning we increased the flow. Sure enough, it was much better! It's awesome how someone like Kyle would jump in and help me as he did, otherwise it would have been a much different weekend.

So next up, my third run. With a functional PS again, I made a much better pass, clocking a 56.218 second run. That left me with a full second buffer over the rest of the SM class. But when I returned to my pit, I had smoke billowing out from under the hood. When we opened it, I had oil on the frame and smoking off the headers. Not good... Once things cooled down, I could see the problem:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150912_170953_zpsrot3q6ic.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150912_170953_zpsrot3q6ic.jpg.html)

If you look under the valve covers, you can see I have 1" spacers. Those spacers have a stock style o-ring on the bottom which is in a groove. It seems that the driver's side spacer wasn't positioned well. What you can't see is that there is a lip of metal behind the o-ring which determines how much 'crush' you get on the gasket. I worked with it to try and reposition the spacer as well as I could, tightened everything back up and ran the motor. I didn't see any more leaks. Apparently I didn't try hard enough to make one.

On the next run, Chris rode with me. When we finished the run (not a good one), the GG tech guy told me I was smoking badly and he didn't want me using the course as a testbed. I totall don't blame him and told him I wouldn't run again if I couldn't fix it. When I got back to my pit, someone walked up and said he saw flames under the hood. I jumped out and grabbed my extinguisher, popped the hood, and sure enough: flames! I hit it once with the extinguisher, gave it a minute, they popped back up and I hit it again and put them out...

When I built TOW, I installed a clamp and a Halon extinguisher right behind my driver's seat. I'm really, REALLY glad I did! If you don't carry one in your car, go spend the $150. Now! (I'm thinking about installing a second one on the other side of the roll bar as a secondary if I ever needed it)

With the fire out, I waited for things to cool off while I tried to collect myself as well. I had quite the crowd at this point around the car. A lot of thoughts went through my head, and I realized I was pretty lucky that I didn't have a much bigger problem on my hands. I had rushed my fix in an effort to get back on course. Really bad call...

I pulled the valve cover and spacer back off. Steve and I looked it over, and he convinced me to walk over to the vendor area of the show and see if someone had anything we could grind the lip down with. I was skeptical, but I didn't have any better ideas. We found a Makita dealer who happened to have a grinder stand setup. We asked the guy if we could use it, and he begrudgingly agreed. I held it, Steve ground it. We took a good bit off to allow it to compress the gasket better. We also picked up a fine file from another vendor to clean up the grind.

After lunch, we reinstalled the spacer and cover. We spent a lot of time making sure it was centered as well as it could be and the gasket was crushing correctly. After a few tries, we were satisfied it was as good as it was going to get. I ran it for a while, and all looked ok. I drove out of the track and found a parking lot to drive in for a while. Some high speed turns, left and right, high engine speed, and everything still looked ok. I decided it was good.

I went back in and found the tech guy and discussed it with him, He came over and I walked him through what we did, and the testing I did, and he was satisfied. He did comment that he would have his own extinguisher on hand, just in case.

I only missed 1 round while doing all of this, and I managed to get 4 more runs during the rest of the day. Honestly, my head wasn't really focused on getting good runs, I just wanted to make sure the car was ok. It did fine for the rest of the day, although I never improved my time. But my 56.2 managed to keep my at the top, if only by 0.014 second at the end of the day (56.218 vs 56.232).

Thankfully, Saturday was much less eventful, at least mechanically. I had a total of 8 runs I think, maybe 9. On the 4th run, I was in line and the second place car managed to run a 56.1 second run. I was 2 cars behind him, so I was pretty amped up to beat it. I did, with a 56.086. I really wanted that first 55 second run, but just missed it.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to keep up the pace in the next run though. The other car ran a 55.5 while I didn't improve. Then he hit a 55.2, and again, I didn't improve. Then Mr. Sutton arrived on the scene. After discussing what was going on, we decided I needed some more rear grip, so we settled on a small shock change and a roll center change. When I crawled under the car to adjust the shocks, I discovered that they were not set where I thought that they were. Hmm, that wasn't helping me any for sure! I'm still scratching my head how that happened, but it didn't matter. I set them to where they should be, and off I went.

Next run, I got my 55. It was only a 55.9, but it was an improvement and the car felt better. Ron and I discussed it some more, and we decided to put my adjustable Watt's Pivot to work. I crawled under the car again and dropped the pivot about 1/4". We were almost at the end of the day, so we weren't sure if we were going to get another run or not. Turns out we did, but it was getting hot and a bit slick. Yet I managed to set my best time of the weekend: 55.56. It wasn't quite enough to get me into 1st, but I could tell a difference in how the car felt.

Ron's recommendations really helped me out! In addition to the suspension suggestions, he gave some great advice to several of us on adjusting our lines through the course. There is a lot going on during a run as I'm sure most of you know, so it's hard to apply it all at once, but some of his tips really helped. I have work to do to improve myself as a driver, but I have a car that felt really good under me at the end of the day. Specifically, I need to be more aggressive getting onto the throttle coming off the turns. I'm losing time there...

As I drove home today and processed a lot of what happened this weekend, I realize that I'm going to have to 'relearn' the car to some extent. When we had the high-rate rear springs in the car, it would get really loose on exit sometimes. That definitely has me a little gun shy when it comes to corner exit. I need to get over that. I also need to get better at modulating my brakes. When I go over the limit, I don't generally recover very well and it usually causes me to end up off course. Threshold braking is on my list to focus on...

My drive home went perfectly today. It was a gorgeous day, cool, sunny, and low traffic. I have a lot of work to do to better tune the engine after the changes. I'll work on that in the coming weeks.

I'm on the hunt for a better solution to get rid of the valve cover spacers. I don't want to relocate the coils, so I'm trying to decide which of the covers that allow coils to be mounted I'll go with. Between the brake booster and the shaker base, there's not a lot of room on the driver's side. I'll find something though...

Quite an experience, the thrash and trip and runs and trip home. I was so close to that win, I could smell it and wanted it pretty badly. In my head I know it was an awesome performance with a car that had so many changes. And being 'in the hunt' was a lot of fun at the end! It just makes me look forward to the next event even more...

Phew, sorry for the ramble post, but a lot happened in the last few days! :)

[Che70velle]

Bryan, way to stay focused and hang in there during the oil experience. Most folks would throw in the towel right about there. Sounds like the car works well, and runs out nice. I'm looking forward to running my car in the spring. Great job!

[Sieg]

Great post Bryan :thumbsup:

Sound like you're closing in on the car's sweet spot.

Regarding another extinguisher.......this is what you can end up with when your only extinguisher is depleted:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4jPV45M/1/L/i-4jPV45M-L.jpg
Rural road, late in the day......without the incredible luck of a couple passer byes, one with extra towels willing to jump in and assist smothering flames, and another with a flat of bottled water who was saturating out towels......I was literally within seconds of have to sit and watch the car burn out.

Get the other extinguisher.

[carbuff]

Sieg,

I remember that happening, and trust me, when I saw flames, I had fears. Thankfully I was at the track where I had facilities that could have helped if needed.

When I installed that extinguisher, it was something I never expected to use. But wow am I glad it was there.

BTW, does anyone know if you can have the small Halon units refilled? I need to do some research into that, but I need to have this one done now.

[GregWeld]

Sieg,

I remember that happening, and trust me, when I saw flames, I had fears. Thankfully I was at the track where I had facilities that could have helped if needed.

When I installed that extinguisher, it was something I never expected to use. But wow am I glad it was there.

BTW, does anyone know if you can have the small Halon units refilled? I need to do some research into that, but I need to have this one done now.



Yes - they are rechargable.

[carbuff]

Yes - they are rechargable.

Thanx Greg. I need to find somewhere local that does it then. Any suggestions of types of place that do it?

[GregWeld]

Thanx Greg. I need to find somewhere local that does it then. Any suggestions of types of place that do it?



http://longhornfireandsafety.com

[GrabberGT]

On the next run, Chris rode with me. When we finished the run (not a good one), the GG tech guy told me I was smoking badly and he didn't want me using the course as a testbed. I totall don't blame him and told him I wouldn't run again if I couldn't fix it. When I got back to my pit, someone walked up and said he saw flames under the hood. I jumped out and grabbed my extinguisher, popped the hood, and sure enough: flames! I hit it once with the extinguisher, gave it a minute, they popped back up and I hit it again and put them out...

When I built TOW, I installed a clamp and a Halon extinguisher right behind my driver's seat. I'm really, REALLY glad I did! If you don't carry one in your car, go spend the $150. Now! (I'm thinking about installing a second one on the other side of the roll bar as a secondary if I ever needed it)



I have a fire extinguisher in my car but after this experience, have decided that due to how I have it mounted, its all but useless. After seeing how easily accessible your is, I'll be making some changes. I looked all over for it not knowing you had grabbed it already. Therefore... I'll also be adding a second F-E in my car so that the passenger can join in on the fun if needed.

Congrats on your second place. TOW performed very well both on and off the track and looked awesome doing it.

[randy]

On your exhaust v band clamps what brand did you use? are they interlocking?

She's home! First drive this afternoon went perfectly. We fixed the vibration problem that was the initial goal for this work as best I can tell. The new rear gear brings the RPM down at highway speeds which felt great. The new rear springs make for a more comfortable ride. In the 2 or 3 turns I could do at all aggressively, the rear felt a touch more compliant. The engine is running great, given the limited tuning so far. All in all, things have come out great!

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_224535_zpshdnjw2ta.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_224535_zpshdnjw2ta.jpg.html)

Here are some final shots of the assembled sway bar arms. Not sure I've taken/posted these yet...

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171953_zpsqn95qjie.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171953_zpsqn95qjie.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171948_zpsapc4i1wy.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171948_zpsapc4i1wy.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171936_zpswbrd0wr9.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171936_zpswbrd0wr9.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171931_zpst9xllvi5.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20150928_171931_zpst9xllvi5.jpg.html)

[carbuff]

I have a fire extinguisher in my car but after this experience, have decided that due to how I have it mounted, its all but useless. After seeing how easily accessible your is, I'll be making some changes. I looked all over for it not knowing you had grabbed it already. Therefore... I'll also be adding a second F-E in my car so that the passenger can join in on the fun if needed.

Congrats on your second place. TOW performed very well both on and off the track and looked awesome doing it.

I debated installing it there originally, as it wasn't the most aesthetically pleasing solution. Looking back, that was a dumb thought on my part. Second one in my cart from Summit along with another mount and clamps... :)

Thanx again, and I'm glad you got to ride with me. I'm also glad you were able to repair and make it back out Saturday! Have a good road trip this week...

[carbuff]

On your exhaust v band clamps what brand did you use? are they interlocking?

As I recall, they are Summit brand pieces:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-694300/overview/

Define interlocking? When these are assembled, but not completely tightened, we can rotate the 2 pipes to get the angles just right. So there isn't anything to 'lock' them in rotation if that is what you were wondering. We have often needed the ability to rotate them just a little to help with clearances as things go back together.

Hope that helps...

[carbuff]

Here is the fastest run which I captured on my Garmin Virb. It was my 56.086 run, which I bested later in the day, but I was pretty excited to get this one as you can tell at the end... :)

9bSEkorc8dE

It's interesting as I watch this, listening to the engine, thinking "man I could have accelerated harder here or there". In the car you think you are pushing as hard as you can, but then after it's easy to be an armchair quarterback. :headspin:

[GrabberGT]

It's interesting as I watch this, listening to the engine, thinking "man I could have accelerated harder here or there". In the car you think you are pushing as hard as you can, but then after it's easy to be an armchair quarterback. :headspin:

The same thoughts went through my mind while watching sideline video of my runs. Add to that, "I could have turned in a lot earlier there... I thought I was closer to those cones"

We should hire a cameraman and setup a replay viewing station NFL style. I think seeing what you are really doing vs what you think you are doing will really help.

[gerno]

From what I recall talking with you and Eric while it was being built, Eric did slide the clamp so one side has a tube sticking out while the other has it recessed so they do interlock in that way. This may be what is being asked. Correct me if I am wrong here since it is your car.

Overall your car looked really really good out there. You need to ride with Robby Unser to figure out what aggressive really is even though you were obviously more aggressive than me this weekend. I rode with Robby and have concluded I'm a complete pansy with a ton to learn. I do have to say we had a good conversation with Robby about car setup while waiting in line, he's a really nice guy as well as a crazy driver.

As I recall, they are Summit brand pieces:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-694300/overview/

Define interlocking? When these are assembled, but not completely tightened, we can rotate the 2 pipes to get the angles just right. So there isn't anything to 'lock' them in rotation if that is what you were wondering. We have often needed the ability to rotate them just a little to help with clearances as things go back together.

Hope that helps...

[Gscherer78ta]

While not in the same league as you guys I've felt the same way- I have always felt like I was on the very limit of grip only to watch the video from the safety of my chair and think "why didn't I brake later and harder, or turn in earlier or get closer to that cone"....

I had Dusold ride with me once and his suggestion afterwards was that I drive deeper before braking and then brake harder for a shorter period of time. He also told me that I could carry more speed through the hairpin by the start line. He was right.

I had a lot of fun talking with all you guys and look forward to doing it again!

Bryan- I loved seeing TOW back out there and I thought it sounded great!

[gerno]

Mike basically told me the same thing after he rode with me. I was not charging the corner hard enough and pretty much waiting for it. Also said I need to trust the car more. Using the brakes I should be on the verge of sliding every corner so I'm getting the most out of it. Sounds easy enough in discussion but I have a lot of practice needed

[carbuff]

From what I recall talking with you and Eric while it was being built, Eric did slide the clamp so one side has a tube sticking out while the other has it recessed so they do interlock in that way. This may be what is being asked. Correct me if I am wrong here since it is your car.

As I recall, you are correct, although I'm not certain he did that on all of them. When we were reassembling the over-the-axle pipes last week, I don't remember those having that. But I think the main pipes do.

Overall your car looked really really good out there. You need to ride with Robby Unser to figure out what aggressive really is even though you were obviously more aggressive than me this weekend. I rode with Robby and have concluded I'm a complete pansy with a ton to learn. I do have to say we had a good conversation with Robby about car setup while waiting in line, he's a really nice guy as well as a crazy driver.

Watching him is unreal. That car looks like it's out of control all the time. I think for the first time, I got just a little taste of that in my last couple of runs on Sunday as I started to push myself more. That's hard to do when you've already had 3 runs in which you've slid off the course. As evidenced by:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151003_075209_zps8zmki9kp.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151003_075209_zps8zmki9kp.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151003_075021_zpslj0iszu5.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151003_075021_zpslj0iszu5.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151003_075052_zpsaxpdiito.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151003_075052_zpsaxpdiito.jpg.html)

I have to admit, that fence was coming towards my windshield awfully fast!

More throttle; Longer throttle; More brake; Later brake; More faith in steering. :G-Dub:

[Flash68]

Nice to see you really getting to enjoy this thing Bryan.

[carbuff]

Nice to see you really getting to enjoy this thing Bryan.

:thumbsup:

[Panteracer]

Bryan,
In the Team Pantera world you earned an Iron Man award
for all your efforts last weekend... great job staying after it
and doing as well as you did... I understand the effect all the
problems have on your driving and you did great

A little history:
Madawg our Team Pantera fearless leader was running one
of his first Silverstates (he has been running them for years)
and at over 160 plus was near the finish line and the car caught
on fire... he really wanted to finish and kept going blowing thru
the finish line but also had no brakes so could not stop for the
fire truck etc.... The car burned to the ground..(many utube videos
if you want to look) Car was towed to his house and then all
the donations from fellow Pantera owners and vendors started pouring
in.... the car was rebuilt and he still runs it today.. Will be at Willow
Springs in a couple of weeks...

PS he now has a fire suppression system in the car and it has
been on fire two times since... they call the car the Phoenix

Bob

[waynieZ]

Bryan nice job! I got a kick out of you at the end of the video. It sounds like you had a good time.
Interesting story Bob. That had to be a rush!!

[OLDFLM]

A little history:
Madawg our Team Pantera fearless leader was running one
of his first Silverstates (he has been running them for years)
and at over 160 plus was near the finish line and the car caught
on fire... he really wanted to finish and kept going blowing thru
the finish line but also had no brakes so could not stop for the
fire truck etc.... The car burned to the ground..(many utube videos
if you want to look) Car was towed to his house and then all
the donations from fellow Pantera owners and vendors started pouring
in.... the car was rebuilt and he still runs it today.. Will be at Willow
Springs in a couple of weeks...

PS he now has a fire suppression system in the car and it has
been on fire two times since... they call the car the Phoenix

Bob

Holy Fireballs! Phoenix is right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fyqDIh2KIw

"This is one of the hottest Panteras around."

[carbuff]

Bryan,
In the Team Pantera world you earned an Iron Man award
for all your efforts last weekend... great job staying after it
and doing as well as you did... I understand the effect all the
problems have on your driving and you did great

A little history:
Madawg our Team Pantera fearless leader was running one
of his first Silverstates (he has been running them for years)
and at over 160 plus was near the finish line and the car caught
on fire... he really wanted to finish and kept going blowing thru
the finish line but also had no brakes so could not stop for the
fire truck etc.... The car burned to the ground..(many utube videos
if you want to look) Car was towed to his house and then all
the donations from fellow Pantera owners and vendors started pouring
in.... the car was rebuilt and he still runs it today.. Will be at Willow
Springs in a couple of weeks...

PS he now has a fire suppression system in the car and it has
been on fire two times since... they call the car the Phoenix

Bob

Wow... Thankfully my problems weren't nearly that bad! Even though it was a small issue, it's really got me thinking about what I'm doing with the car and, more importantly, what I plan to continue to do with the car. My goal has never been to turn this into a full-on racecar, but at the same time, I want to enjoy the various events which I do, AND feel safe doing them. It's easy to be blissfully ignorant until you've had an actual problem...

[carbuff]

Bryan nice job! I got a kick out of you at the end of the video. It sounds like you had a good time.

Absolutely! And yes, I was a little excited at the end of that run. My first 55.x second run was about the same. ;)

[carbuff]

Holy Fireballs! Phoenix is right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fyqDIh2KIw

"This is one of the hottest Panteras around."

Painful to watch... :\

[chichirone]

Great video of your run Bryan. Your enthusiasm and excitement is contagious. Makes me want to go out and run an auto-x right NOW!

Th course set up was much different than previous years as well. Looked and sounded like a good time.

[waynieZ]

That video was painful to watch. I'm glad you had nothing like that happen.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Great post Bryan :thumbsup:

Sound like you're closing in on the car's sweet spot.

Regarding another extinguisher.......this is what you can end up with when your only extinguisher is depleted:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4jPV45M/1/L/i-4jPV45M-L.jpg
Rural road, late in the day......without the incredible luck of a couple passer byes, one with extra towels willing to jump in and assist smothering flames, and another with a flat of bottled water who was saturating out towels......I was literally within seconds of have to sit and watch the car burn out.

Get the other extinguisher.

Sorry for bringing this back but an extinguisher is there to be use to give you enough time to get out of the car, not to put a car fire out. If you want to save the car you will need a 2 fire bottle system with 6 nozzles, as much steel fuel lines as you can stand, kevlar hose if you need flex, fuel and power shut off. Sure, you may get lucky with the extingisher but when it comes to fire lucky isn't a factor.

Relying on track fire support you don't always burn close to the fire crew. they have to see the problem, load up and get to you. When Dale Jr burnt up at Sonoma it took fire trucks 4 mins to get to him. Thankfully the corner workers were there to pull him to safety. Always plan for the worst.

[glassman]

So far at least two of us on here have caught fire, i think its something we HAVE to prepare for

Lots of good advice, speciallly your comment Vince

How the eff do you fix up the Pantera after that burn? wow....

Anyways, cheers Bryan.

[carbuff]

Great video of your run Bryan. Your enthusiasm and excitement is contagious. Makes me want to go out and run an auto-x right NOW!

Th course set up was much different than previous years as well. Looked and sounded like a good time.

They took some of the "technicality" out of the course: opened up some of the turns, removed a couple of turns, shortened the course overall. I really liked it. :)

I had just lost the lead for the first time right before that run, and I managed to take it right back which was pretty awesome for me. Thus my enthusiasm. ;)

Sorry you two couldn't be there! Hopefully we'll end up at an event together again...

[carbuff]

That video was painful to watch. I'm glad you had nothing like that happen.

Oof, me too!

[carbuff]

Even with such a 'small' fire, it definitely has me thinking about my use of the car and what I want/need to go doing forward. I love driving this car, but I have no interest in watching it burn to the ground... :\

It's similar to the discussions that have taken place here about the USCA events. Thankfully, there haven't been any bad accidents (that I'm aware of), but the possibility of one happening always exists.

[Panteracer]

Vince is right an on board system
Is the best. I had my Pantera on fire last
Year and was lucky I was going slow and able
to get out and use a hand held extinguisher

Bird has been on fire several times due to no
air filter and backfires. Most of the time you could
suck it back into the motor. Now I have a filter and
no backfires

Need to look at the on board systems. Seems like
making them run fast always is the priority

Bob

[carbuff]

Here are a couple of videos from this weekend's autocross. We had FIVE cars in the CAM-T class! Pretty exciting to have more similar cars... There were issues that crept up with a couple of them, but it was still fun to have them there.

Unfortunately we ran in the first group of the day, and the course was DIRTY to say the least. I think we were still throwing up dust after our 5th and final runs...

The first video was my best run of the day (according to the Garmin), but there was a timing issue so I had to rerun it. The second video is of the rerun, and you can see I was a lot more squirrelly in that run, to the point I spun. Oh well, it was fun!

9JzfXj-EGC0

NVOMnVaAU4s

[carbuff]

Some recent updates on TOW...

After my little incident at the Fort Worth Good Guys autocross, I decided I was replacing the factory valve covers with an aftermarket piece which wouldn't require the spacers. There were 2 problems with this plan. First, I needed something which would clear the rockers for certain. And second, I needed a coil mounting arrangement which would clear the shaker. I didn't want to deal with remote mounting them elsewhere in the engine compartment...

I've always liked the Katech valve covers, but I was concerned about both issues above. I didn't find anyone who used them with the Crower shaft rockers, and they looked like they would be tight over the valve springs. Additionally, with the coil relo kit they have, the coils were going to be right up against my shaker base, meaning it was going to be a tight fit as well.

I decided to bite the bullet anyway and purchased a set of them as-cast since they didn't have any which were already powder coated in stock. Eric got them coated for me, then it took me a couple of weeks to have time to install them. I figured I could resell them if I had to as they are a popular option in the C6 world.

So off with the old, on with the new. Everything went smoothly until I installed the coils. I knew this was going to be tight, and sure enough 7 out of 8 fit great. Just that one last one........

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151115_112753_zpsyjpezgz4.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151115_112753_zpsyjpezgz4.jpg.html)

It's hard to see, but the plug socket on the coil is under the shaker, and it was just hitting (like 1/8" hitting). Here is the same location on the passenger side:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151115_120444_zpsba6css6u.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151115_120444_zpsba6css6u.jpg.html)

That one clears since the coils are reversed, and the mounting bolt has more space.

I debated a few options, and went turned to Google. I was running a 1/2" aluminum carb spacer to raise up the shaker when I changed the seal a few weeks ago. After looking it over, I convinced myself that I could add another 1/4" to the spacer and everything would still work while giving me clearance. The trick was finding a 3/4" spacer. There aren't a lot of those around. I did find one though, and it's a wooden one which is a benefit for me (my throttle body tends to heat soak, and just enough to cause movement of the very sensitive blade set screw affecting idle). So I ordered it up, and waited for its arrival to finish up the install....

A few days later, spacer in hand, I finished putting it all together. And as if it was meant to be this way all along, it fit perfectly. :) So here are some shots of the final assembly:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151201_172227_zpsqz7h1coq.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151201_172227_zpsqz7h1coq.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151201_172238_zpsjz05i8sx.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151201_172238_zpsjz05i8sx.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151201_172249_zpskm8sacgk.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20151201_172249_zpskm8sacgk.jpg.html)

The aesthetics are an added benefit (really cleaned up the engine), but I have a well sealed top-end of the engine again. No more oil worries for me!

With that out of the way, the next thing I've been wanting to do was to re-dyno the car after the summer cam swap. I expected to be making more power, but I was really curious how the curves may have changed, and I also needed to do some tuning work as my vacuum levels changed a lot.

Yesterday I drove to (coincidentally) Bryan, Tx to the same dyno I was at after the engine rebuild earlier this year. We has almost identical weather conditions, so it was a good comparison opportunity. The drive there was easy, no problems, but getting on the dyno was another story. It seems that my reason suspension balancing must have ended up with lowering the rear suspension, just enough that one of the exhaust flanges was touching the dyno roller. Hmm...

Thanx to some creative engineering work (ie: block of wood), we were able to prop up the exhaust enough after strapping the car down to be able to make runs. Disaster averted! :)

We did about 8 or 9 runs in total, and here are the results:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/Dyno_LLSR_JediTekk_cropped_zpsjmsyqydv.gif (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/Dyno_LLSR_JediTekk_cropped_zpsjmsyqydv.gif.html)

We actually hit 578.9 / 505.6 on one run, but somehow didn't include that one in the printout. For comparison, here is my run from earlier this year:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/TOW427DynoPlotCropped_zpsmgyeknvp.gif (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/TOW427DynoPlotCropped_zpsmgyeknvp.gif.html)

+39 rwhp from a cam/lifter/rocker/spring swap isn't too shaby. :) It's strange to me that the torque peak was almost identical, but as expected, I did lose some down low. This setup carries the power nicely in the upper RPM though, and that will help on those 1st gear GG autocross runs (as it did this past October).

After the dyno session, we went for a drive to make sure everything was good in the typical driving ranges. The car felt great, and it was again a smooth drive home.

So she's all buttoned up just in time for the winter. :\ That gives me time to think about more projects though. :lostmarbles: I'm trying to determine if it would be possible for me to fit a 315 tire on the front without any major work. I've added a 1/4" spacer to my front wheels and have been driving with no issues. I have a set of 1/2" spacers arriving this week that I will try next. If I can run with those, the next step is to find a way to either modify or rebuild the LCA's on my front suspension to add clearance, as that is the first point of contact. I could easily raise the car 1/4" or so and realign to gain a little clearance if needed. I think this would be worthwhile, but of course I need to consult Guru Sutton to confirm.

I have a few other small ideas in the works as well, and one or two not so small ones. :stirthepot:

[glassman]

WTF you talkin about willis? a wood carb spacer? i've only had half a glass of wine, did i read that right or should i stop drinking lol?

Well, if true, first i've ever heard/read about that....please tell me it was for mock up?

Anyways, nice to see some progress pics, i've got some coming up soon as well....see ya in Texas next year. Better yet, you should do this frickin tour with us in 2016!!

[carbuff]

Yep, wood carb spacer. :) One of the advantages is that it doesn't translate the heat from the intake manifold into the throttle body or carb like a metal spacer would. And while I didn't open it up to match the plenum opening (yet), it should be easier to do with wood than with aluminum. :)

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/edl-8719_ml.jpg

[Che70velle]

I've ran carb spacers made from phenolic, which looks and feel like wood, but is actually a material made from layers of glass sheet, or paper sheet, mixed with synthetic resin. I actually have one hanging on the wall in the shop. More than likely, this is what Bryan is using, although it could be actual wood I guess. Phenolic does not have soak properties, meaning liquids can't penetrate the material, to an extant. Wood on the other hand, would tend to allow fuel to soak somewhat, and mixing that with heat, and God forbid, a backfire...well you get the point.

Love the new valve covers! Those look killer!

[carbuff]

I see lots of them available in phenolic as well, but this one is listed as wood. Wasn't my first choice, but finding a 3/4" tall spacer is hard... Here is how it's described:

Carb Spacer , wood
Square-bore, 3/4" thick
Open
Single Bolt Pattern

I'll likely pull it back apart and open up the corner radii sometime soon, so I'll see if it has soaked up any fluid. I would hope not with the injectors down in the ports, but I do get some reversion into the intake...

[Flash68]

My carb spacer is boring plastic. :action-smiley-027: Pretty rare discussion around here in the land of LS EFI engines I guess. :)

Engine bay looks great man. That shaker really does look killer. Glad you found the work around.

And those new dyno numbers are impressive. You've really brought this car a long way and continue to improve it. Helps immensely to team up with the right shop/builder eh?

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Nice additions Bryan!!! See ya in January when we come down for Adrienne's graduation.

[SSLance]

Watched the Texas episode of USCA again last night, was nice seeing TOW get some TV time along with others on here as well.

Nice job on the upgrades, love the new dyno numbers.

[glassman]

Me too, great seeing you out there run it. IIRC, i saw four Lat-g cars out there, yours, Jay and Amy's 2nd gen bird, Steves?, the 77 or 78, cant remember his name (sorry) but its the one who ran 1/4 mile and now doing this type of competition.....

Sorry for the jack Bryan. Also, please make sure what ever that wood spacer is coated with DOES NOT break down (the coating, over time, remember wood is an organic material) umm, wood saturated with fuels would be ummm, lets just not say it!!!!!

Mike

[carbuff]

Thanx guys. Perhaps I'll go on the hunt again for a different spacer, but when I looked for a 3/4" option, this is what I found. I could mill down a 1" spacer I imagine, but I didn't really want to go that path.

With a few hundred miles and dyno sessions on it, I'll be able to tell if it's soaking up fluids by pulling the TB off. I need to adjust on the idle set screw anyway, so once I have the shaker off, pulled the TB is easy.

I'm really happy with how the valve covers cleaned up under the hood too! It's a lot of work at times to get those final details, and this was one that took me time to get to. I'm glad I did!

As for having the right shop, this car would be nothing compared to what it is if it weren't for Eric. He's done some amazing work for me!

Weld, let me know when you will be in town. I'm traveling the first 2 weekends of January, but I should be in town the rest of the month... Too bad you won't be here in February or you could join me for this:

MVP Track Time (http://www.mvptracktime.com/index.html)

I just signed up for the 3-day weekend. I hope TOW and I both survive it, that will be my first time on COTA. I can't wait!

[GregWeld]

I didn't want to call Glassman out on his Fuel saturation issue -- but now I have to..... Your system is a dry system with injectors that shoot fuel directly at the intact valve -- which is FAR below the spacer and throttle body which remain high and dry.

A wet injection system would act like a carb - with the injectors in the throttle body mixing with air up top - which might wet down the spacer - but even then - doubtful. Fuel evaporates - and there's also a ton of air flowing...


Anyway - good fix.

[carbuff]

Greg,

In theory I completely agree with you. But I think there may be some factors at play here that muddy that theory a bit.

When I pulled the throttle body to change the plenum, the edges of the gaskets which are exposed to the plenum were damp. The plenum itself was also damp. I can't completely explain it, but one theory is that the fuel injectors are spraying on the back of the closed valve during at least a portion of the spray (depending on the particular duty cycle). That fuel hits the valve and generally atomizes. But I think that also may allow some of the vapor back into the plenum when other cylinder intake valves are open.

I've been reading threads as I can find them about one of the Holley HP EFI options which allows you to adjust the timing point when the injectors is turned off. There are theories about when to do this for either best emissions or best performance. We actually played with it a little on the dyno to see it is made any HP differences, and in reality, it didn't seem to. So I want to try and time it to finish right before the valve is opening to allow the vapor to be pulled into the cylinder right after being sprayed. My thinking being that it would reduce the ability for it to get back into the intake.

Anyway, that's a long winded reply to say that in theory, I agree with you. But I did see some 'wet' in my plenum, so I will pull it back down and keep an eye on it to make sure I don't have any problems........

On a different topic, what's up with all of the toys being up for sale? Just noticed that in the sig...

[GregWeld]

Greg,

In theory I completely agree with you. But I think there may be some factors at play here that muddy that theory a bit.

When I pulled the throttle body to change the plenum, the edges of the gaskets which are exposed to the plenum were damp. The plenum itself was also damp. I can't completely explain it, but one theory is that the fuel injectors are spraying on the back of the closed valve during at least a portion of the spray (depending on the particular duty cycle). That fuel hits the valve and generally atomizes. But I think that also may allow some of the vapor back into the plenum when other cylinder intake valves are open.

I've been reading threads as I can find them about one of the Holley HP EFI options which allows you to adjust the timing point when the injectors is turned off. There are theories about when to do this for either best emissions or best performance. We actually played with it a little on the dyno to see it is made any HP differences, and in reality, it didn't seem to. So I want to try and time it to finish right before the valve is opening to allow the vapor to be pulled into the cylinder right after being sprayed. My thinking being that it would reduce the ability for it to get back into the intake.

Anyway, that's a long winded reply to say that in theory, I agree with you. But I did see some 'wet' in my plenum, so I will pull it back down and keep an eye on it to make sure I don't have any problems........

On a different topic, what's up with all of the toys being up for sale? Just noticed that in the sig...



I hate cars and am getting completely out of them.




LOL



You'd have to read the last few posts in my '40 Ford projects thread.



This "thread" might help shed some light on fuel injector and valve timing:




http://www.motec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=769

[Gscherer78ta]

Me too, great seeing you out there run it. IIRC, i saw four Lat-g cars out there, yours, Jay and Amy's 2nd gen bird, Steves?, the 77 or 78, cant remember his name (sorry) but its the one who ran 1/4 mile and now doing this type of competition.....

Sorry for the jack Bryan. Also, please make sure what ever that wood spacer is coated with DOES NOT break down (the coating, over time, remember wood is an organic material) umm, wood saturated with fuels would be ummm, lets just not say it!!!!!

Mike

There were several of us on the Texas Show in addition to Amy and Bryan! GarbberGT- with the Blue Maverick, SilverC10 - with the Burgandy 79 Camaro, myself in the Gold 78 TA, I also see Terry Fair on here every once in a while.

[carbuff]

I've been really lax about posting updates here, I'm way behind on the car. But I thought I would share this picture from my weekend at COTA in early March. That weekend caused some carnage for TOW, but it sure was a fun track to drive! Doing lots of this:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/ZMB_8338_zpso9l9hgni.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/ZMB_8338_zpso9l9hgni.jpg.html)

Eventually led to this after 2 days:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/IMG_20160227_183524_zpsyayknqga.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/IMG_20160227_183524_zpsyayknqga.jpg.html)

Kinda scary, but thankfully it all turned out ok. I've replaced the drilled rotors with these for the future:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/IMG_20160304_202013_zps22h2hycm.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-03/IMG_20160304_202013_zps22h2hycm.jpg.html)

[carbuff]

Before COTA, and in prep for the upcoming GG event in Fort Worth, I also installed this to help cure my power steering woes (thanx Mr. Sutton!):

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160224_200043_zpsfqutz2ds.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160224_200043_zpsfqutz2ds.jpg.html)

I also did some of this:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160220_145535_zpsa87qwf5c.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160220_145535_zpsa87qwf5c.jpg.html)

and this:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/IMG_20160220_1306402_zpsqnyj54yy.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/IMG_20160220_1306402_zpsqnyj54yy.jpg.html)

and this:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160305_121246_zpsnybxgqyx.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160305_121246_zpsnybxgqyx.jpg.html)

after installing these:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/IMG_20160224_151229_zpsx4dckbjl.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/IMG_20160224_151229_zpsx4dckbjl.jpg.html)

In case it's not obvious, that's 4x 315x30x18 Rival S's. Unfortunately, I did not roll the very edge of the inner fender lip on the passenger side (I had no actual clearance issues, so I thought), and when I hit a bad bump in the street while turning, I did this:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160308_202447_zpszdnbwk45.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160308_202447_zpszdnbwk45.jpg.html)

One 3 mile old BFG Rival S 315 down the drain... I had already purchased a pair of 275's, so I put those back on instead, and that's what I'm running now.

[carbuff]

The bad news in all of this is that not only did I break a brake rotor at COTA, it seems I also hurt the engine. I spent a ton of time, brain power, and money trying to diagnose what has gone wrong, but at this point, it must be something internal. I'm at a point where my hot oil pressure is much lower than it used to be (before COTA), and the engine simply won't run right (my Holley O2 readings are all over the place, not quite as stable at idle, and some stumbling). So next weekend, the engine is coming back out for a teardown. While deciding what to do, I stumbled on this:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/img_3680_db3438a7e630207de79658bc3c4b758486f9644d_ zpsbs7otkbc.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/img_3680_db3438a7e630207de79658bc3c4b758486f9644d_ zpsbs7otkbc.jpg.html)

So TOW is getting a small upgrade. It's a sleeved LS block, which will have a 4.155" bore giving me a CID of 434". I'm moving most of my internals over (need pistons), heads, intake, etc. The biggest struggle I'm having is what to do about my oiling system. I added the Accusump last year, and while everything seemed ok, of all damned things, the pressure switch that actually enables the unit has died. Discovered that during the COTA weekend. Doesn't do me a lot of good if the unit can't actuate! :bigun2:

I've done a ton of research about adding a dry sump to the car. I've managed to solve almost all of the hard hurdles, but at this point, it just doesn't seem feasible. So, instead, I'm going to bump the oil pump, get rid of the pressure switch and use the Holley to actuate the Accusump, and look at a few other things per the engine builder's suggestions. I discovered this weekend that my pushrods were not restricted, meaning I was pumping more oil to the valve covers than I needed (so new pushrods will be ordered). I'm also changing oil per a conversation with Ron Sutton from RedLine to Lucas products.

[waynieZ]

When it rains it pours! I'm glad you found the rotor and the problem with the tire before you were back on the track.

[cpd004]

Is the reservoir adapted to the pump you already had or was it complete with pump?

[Panteracer]

Bryan,
Sorry to hear about the Motor... I have had many problems
with Pontiac motors in the past and hope mine is resolved now
was thinking the Ls motors were bullet proof but I guess not

Car does look great on the track
Wondering why brakes actually cracked.. I have had checking
on the Pantera when they have had a lot of time on them.. maybe crossdrilling....14" rotors??? I am still deciding on my new brakes maybe
the Aero Wilwoods... time will tell

Finally looking at your car's weight 3942... I was at 3710 and
taking a bunch off the front and hoping to be in the 3350 range
Hopefully I can weigh mine this weekend
I have a 5 point roll bar, no ac or heat.. glass front end and hood now

Bob

[carbuff]

Is the reservoir adapted to the pump you already had or was it complete with pump?

I replaced the pump and reservoir, purchased as a unit through Sutton. Higher pressure unit, which would help with the bigger tires I was trying to run. I REALLY want to replace the rack, but Ron tells me that no one makes a really strong replacement rack for the Thunderbird / Mustang II fitment. I will probably get an extra one to keep on hand once I do get those big tires mounted...

[carbuff]

Bryan,
Sorry to hear about the Motor... I have had many problems
with Pontiac motors in the past and hope mine is resolved now
was thinking the Ls motors were bullet proof but I guess not

The LS motors don't like long sweeping turns (what motor does I guess). It's easy to suck the pan dry. I confirmed today that I don't have restricted diameter pushrods, which I thought I did, so that didn't help either. I'm told you can have up to 2 quarts of oil in the valve covers (hard to believe it's that much, but I've been told that from 2 sources). So I need to do all I can to limit that.

Car does look great on the track
Wondering why brakes actually cracked..

Heat, I'm sure. COTA is a fast track, and TOW is heavy. 3900# plus slowing from 120-130 down to 45 at 2 points on the track is a lot of heat. And I'm not exactly nice to brakes. There is also limited cooling to them currently (I'm thinking about ways to improve that). But the drilled rotors were probably a bad idea for a big track. I had them all apart the week before COTA, and I didn't see a single stress crack at the holes. Now, every hole has one! Front and rear...

Finally looking at your car's weight 3942... I was at 3710 and taking a bunch off the front and hoping to be in the 3350 range Hopefully I can weigh mine this weekend I have a 5 point roll bar, no ac or heat.. glass front end and hood now

You are definitely getting some weight off the front. I'm a big guy (260-ish), so that doesn't help. I only have the fiberglass hood, I'd like to replace the nose as well like you did. That's 60-70 pounds right there, plus those heavy mounts. I didn't build this car with weight in mind though, it was built as a driver / Pro-Tourer. I need to build another one that's more racecar. :drive:

[carbuff]

When it rains it pours! I'm glad you found the rotor and the problem with the tire before you were back on the track.

Me too! I had gone to a parking lot and done some skid pad type testing, and everything was fine. But hitting something like a pothole did it in.

The Rivals are wider at the tread edge than the Falkens were. I had used the rear 315 Falkens for testing before making the jump, and all seemed fine. If I had just rolled the inner edge a bit, I would have been ok. It was a sick feeling when it happened... :(

[Panteracer]

Bryan,
I wasn't thinking when I saw your car weight
Now I know you have your weight included for corner weighing
I was not counting my weight and I am no little guy either
at 240lbs so our car weights are closer

Bob

[carbuff]

Ah, that makes a lot more sense. I thought that was a big difference, especially since I have the aluminum LS and aftermarket subframe up front. ;)

[glassman]

Nice update Bryan!!

Just got finished with my heads and cam from TSP on mine, cant' wait to see what breaks next lol.

We're only as strong as our weakest link....

I'm (or was before the DSE rear) at 3501 on mine, any reason the 'bird's are more?

[gerno]

Nice update Bryan!!

Just got finished with my heads and cam from TSP on mine, cant' wait to see what breaks next lol.

We're only as strong as our weakest link....

I'm (or was before the DSE rear) at 3501 on mine, any reason the 'bird's are more?

Mike - Is your car's weight with you in it? I'm pretty sure Bryan's is with his weight mocked pretty close. My car's at 3425 without me and I'm near 170 which puts it at 3595. I don't have near the creature comforts Bryan does - AC, Dynamat, full stereo, back seat..etc

[glassman]

Not with me in it. but it has a/c, dynamat (two boxes, 45lbs ish) and rear seats (most likely getting deleted with the new interior in a year or two)....

179lbs, me, plus clothing....helmet and shoulder pads...and cleats...

so, tank, full, or 1/2?

[GregWeld]

Mike - Is your car's weight with you in it? I'm pretty sure Bryan's is with his weight mocked pretty close. My car's at 3425 without me and I'm near 170 which puts it at 3595. I don't have near the creature comforts Bryan does - AC, Dynamat, full stereo, back seat..etc

Bryan,
I wasn't thinking when I saw your car weight
Now I know you have your weight included for corner weighing
I was not counting my weight and I am no little guy either
at 240lbs so our car weights are closer

Bob

Not with me in it. but it has a/c, dynamat (two boxes, 45lbs ish) and rear seats (most likely getting deleted with the new interior in a year or two)....

179lbs, me, plus clothing....helmet and shoulder pads...and cleats...

so, tank, full, or 1/2?




PRETTY DANG HARD TO RUN A CAR WITHOUT A DRIVER..... SO what's the point of saying my car weighs "X" if you don't include the driver and fuel and, and.....


'NUFF SAID

[GregWeld]

Bryan ---


Without coming off like a jerk - because that's not my intention AT ALL..... I'd be looking for a different engine builder/tuner..... et al. I know a ton of people that are running track events over and over and over - with their LS motors and aren't having issues at all.

I'm pretty sure you have an Accusump -- and that SHOULD take care of the occasional pick up / cornering issue... I would assume you have a baffled "race" pan...

After having motor issues myself 3 or 4 times in a row.... It was the best thing I ever did just going to a new builder and problems solved. The very same motor has been flawless since. Go figure.

[carbuff]

Mike - Is your car's weight with you in it? I'm pretty sure Bryan's is with his weight mocked pretty close. My car's at 3425 without me and I'm near 170 which puts it at 3595. I don't have near the creature comforts Bryan does - AC, Dynamat, full stereo, back seat..etc

Yes, the car's weight included my weight (weight plates).

When I first put TOW on the scales, it was 3810 or so with me in it. Since then I've added the Accusump, rear sway bar, remote oil filter, the change from the LS2 to the LS7 block, and I've put on a few pounds. Not that many though. ;)

A firebird has a very heavy front bumper (75 pounds or so). The Camaro RS urethane bumper is about 30 or so? Also the brackets for the Firebird are heavy.

I have no actual data to prove it, but I think the JRS subframe is pretty heavy too. When I was moving it around, it certainly wasn't light.

[GregWeld]

My Mustang has lost almost 15 #'s since I drove it last. LOL


Didn't cost me a thing. Balsamic on my salad instead of Bleu Cheese... Apple and Raw Almonds for snacks... Breakfast is 3 tablespoons of Granola - a package of non fat yogurt - and a 1/3 cup of blueberries instead of bacon and eggs and potatoes and sourdough toast with butter and jam...

[WSSix]

Sorry to hear of the woes, Bryan. I'm glad you're out having fun with the car though. That action shot at COTA is nice! Good luck getting it sorted and back together.

[carbuff]

Bryan ---


Without coming off like a jerk - because that's not my intention AT ALL..... I'd be looking for a different engine builder/tuner..... et al. I know a ton of people that are running track events over and over and over - with their LS motors and aren't having issues at all.

I'm pretty sure you have an Accusump -- and that SHOULD take care of the occasional pick up / cornering issue... I would assume you have a baffled "race" pan...

After having motor issues myself 3 or 4 times in a row.... It was the best thing I ever did just going to a new builder and problems solved. The very same motor has been flawless since. Go figure.

Greg,

No offense taken. I completely agree with you...

I had Texas Speed rebuild the motor last year when I dropped the valve. I don't blame the dropped valve on the original engine builder, I think it was moreso due to having sat for 5 years. But I don't want to go back to Texas Speed for another rebuild.

So I went on a hunt for another builder. I didn't find anyone in Austin that has much of a reputation for LS engines, but there are several shops in Houston that have good reps. After speaking with a few of them, I've decided to have H-Squared Racing do the rebuild. We've had multiple discussions about what I'm doing with the car, what I want in the engine, and the level of details that should be discussed during a build. Today we talked about piston options and deck height options and compression ratio options, as an example.

To make things even better, he has offered to help me pull and reinstall the engine, as Eric's shop is full so he doesn't have space to do it right now. I didn't ask, he offered. So I'm towing TOW down to Houston on Friday to start the process.

Regarding the Accusump, I'm definitely not happy that it didn't help (assuming that it didn't). I figured out during my second day at COTA that my Accusump wasn't working. It didn't prime when I flipped the switch on at some point during the day. I used my multimeter to determine that the pressure switch in the block wasn't working. WTF, how did that die? Anyway, I bypassed it and had the Holley controlling the Accusump valve. But it's likely that any damage was done before I figured that out.

Once I get the engine out, I'll pull the sensor and contact Canton about it. I may leave the sensor out and just use the Holley for the control.

[carbuff]

My Mustang has lost almost 15 #'s since I drove it last. LOL


Didn't cost me a thing. Balsamic on my salad instead of Bleu Cheese... Apple and Raw Almonds for snacks... Breakfast is 3 tablespoons of Granola - a package of non fat yogurt - and a 1/3 cup of blueberries instead of bacon and eggs and potatoes and sourdough toast with butter and jam...

Yeah, well, I'm working on that too... I have about 50 to go. :grouphug:

Unfortunately I'm sidelined with a knee problem at the moment. I'm having it scoped later this month to remove a piece of floating bone. Fun stuff...

[Flash68]

PRETTY DANG HARD TO RUN A CAR WITHOUT A DRIVER..... SO what's the point of saying my car weighs "X" if you don't include the driver and fuel and, and.....


'NUFF SAID

It runs 10.90's Greg.... therefore it runs 10's! :sieg:

My Mustang has lost almost 15 #'s since I drove it last. LOL


Didn't cost me a thing. Balsamic on my salad instead of Bleu Cheese... Apple and Raw Almonds for snacks... Breakfast is 3 tablespoons of Granola - a package of non fat yogurt - and a 1/3 cup of blueberries instead of bacon and eggs and potatoes and sourdough toast with butter and jam...

You are getting less fun by the day.

Greg,

No offense taken. I completely agree with you...

I had Texas Speed rebuild the motor last year when I dropped the valve. I don't blame the dropped valve on the original engine builder, I think it was moreso due to having sat for 5 years. But I don't want to go back to Texas Speed for another rebuild.

So I went on a hunt for another builder. I didn't find anyone in Austin that has much of a reputation for LS engines, but there are several shops in Houston that have good reps. After speaking with a few of them, I've decided to have H-Squared Racing do the rebuild. We've had multiple discussions about what I'm doing with the car, what I want in the engine, and the level of details that should be discussed during a build. Today we talked about piston options and deck height options and compression ratio options, as an example.

To make things even better, he has offered to help me pull and reinstall the engine, as Eric's shop is full so he doesn't have space to do it right now. I didn't ask, he offered. So I'm towing TOW down to Houston on Friday to start the process.

Regarding the Accusump, I'm definitely not happy that it didn't help (assuming that it didn't). I figured out during my second day at COTA that my Accusump wasn't working. It didn't prime when I flipped the switch on at some point during the day. I used my multimeter to determine that the pressure switch in the block wasn't working. WTF, how did that die? Anyway, I bypassed it and had the Holley controlling the Accusump valve. But it's likely that any damage was done before I figured that out.

Once I get the engine out, I'll pull the sensor and contact Canton about it. I may leave the sensor out and just use the Holley for the control.

All I have to say is with as much money as you have in your car and motor(s) I just don't understand why you wouldn't make the necessary changes to go dry sump. You are continuously going faster and adding grip and that means more G's...

Did you already buy this sleeved block? Why not LS7 block and go aftermarket dry sump? I get it... already have the heads... bla bla bla. Just sayin....

But hey, at least you're out there busting up parts and stuff. :)

[GregWeld]

Glad you're working on a different builder. I'd have recommended Don Hardy race engines. But hopefully this all works out for you.

[Gscherer78ta]

Yes, the car's weight included my weight (weight plates).

When I first put TOW on the scales, it was 3810 or so with me in it. Since then I've added the Accusump, rear sway bar, remote oil filter, the change from the LS2 to the LS7 block, and I've put on a few pounds. Not that many though. ;)

A firebird has a very heavy front bumper (75 pounds or so). The Camaro RS urethane bumper is about 30 or so? Also the brackets for the Firebird are heavy.

I have no actual data to prove it, but I think the JRS subframe is pretty heavy too. When I was moving it around, it certainly wasn't light.

Just for comparison sake... My '78 TA weighs in at 3828 - Full tank of gas, no driver, full interior, amp and sub. I'm 100# more on each front wheel and 100# less on each back wheel. I also have the Pontiac motor with cast iron heads.

[carbuff]

Just for comparison sake... My '78 TA weighs in at 3828 - Full tank of gas, no driver, full interior, amp and sub. I'm 100# more on each front wheel and 100# less on each back wheel. I also have the Pontiac motor with cast iron heads.

Thanx for that data point. Is your battery in the front or back, I can't remember at the moment. Mine is rear, which helps a little. Mine was almost full tank of fuel as well.

[carbuff]

Glad you're working on a different builder. I'd have recommended Don Hardy race engines. But hopefully this all works out for you.

I've seen you mention his name before. I've never seen his name in the LS forums I read (LS1tech, Corvette Forums), but I get the impression from his Instagram page that he does more builds for cars like ours or show cars. Am I wrong on that? I'll do some Googling on him...

[carbuff]

All I have to say is with as much money as you have in your car and motor(s) I just don't understand why you wouldn't make the necessary changes to go dry sump. You are continuously going faster and adding grip and that means more G's...

Did you already buy this sleeved block? Why not LS7 block and go aftermarket dry sump? I get it... already have the heads... bla bla bla. Just sayin....

But hey, at least you're out there busting up parts and stuff. :)

It's a fair question. And a decision that I'm not taking lightly, I promise...

There are a few factors at play here. Yes, cost is one of them, but I'm not letting it be the driving decision for me (all in, including my assumed Eric fab time, I'm looking at around $6.5 - 7k for the switch). The bigger issue is fitment of the tank.

Last night I spent an hour under the hood with my 'mockup' oil tank:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160411_194337_zpsrrrwtrp0.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160411_194337_zpsrrrwtrp0.jpg.html)

Some cardboard and posterboard built in the shape and size of the smallest tank recommended for me to use (6" diameter, 19.5" tall, ~2 gallon capacity). I'm trying to find a space to mount this.

Eric mounted a tank in SW's Camaro behind the passenger side headlight. That is the preferred spot for convenience / accessibility / hose routing. On my car though, I'd swear the inner fender is different in that area, and it would be a lot harder to cut / route the tank into that space. Not to mention I already have stuff in that area.

So then I am looking at a firewall mount. Because of the downbars we have as well as the AC hoses going into the car and the location of the header, I'm not comfortable that this location will work. Will my mock up fit? Yes, but only barely. By the time I add the clamps for mounting, I have less than 1/2" from the header tube to the side of the tank. That's not enough for me to be comfortable that it will actually fit, or not boil the oil in the tank due to heat.

Oh, not to mention that I'm not completely comfortable that the firewall would support the weight of a tank and 2G of oil right there without some significant reinforcement.

I also looked at the driver's side behind the headlight. That's where my radiator catch can is, and I still have the inner fender problem.

Any of these could be solved with more significant work to sheetmetal or header reshaping, etc. The problem becomes time. As I said, Eric is busy, and I'm not equipped to do it myself. But even if I were, I'm not 100% certain I have a spot available that would really work. I even looked at hanging it behind the radiator, but again there isn't enough clearance between the fans and the accessories.

Note that I do currently have an LS7 block. But I have a wet sump crank. I could convert to the LS7 dry sump, but if I'm going dry sump, I'm going Dailey external. I'll be using my current LS3-based heads on the new block. They make plenty of power, although stepping to an LS7 architecture would have more potential. That's for the next project. ;)

I believe that I'm going to solve my problem with a better build, a fixed Accusump circuit, restricted flow pushrods, and a better oil pump (and possibly pan change, I'm going to look into that also). As Greg said, plenty of people run the LS engines without having oil supply problems. I will solve this!

[carbuff]

In a continued effort to find a possible solution to adding an oil tank, I Googled tank companies today. I found one that will build a custom tank in any shape I want: Stef's. I gave them a call, and it seems like they can really build just about any shape, so it's up to me to determine the best shape...

I posted a picture of my cylinder that I made yesterday. Here are some shots of me trying to fit it. You can see, it's really tight, especially to the header:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180351_zpsckvc4nvz.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180351_zpsckvc4nvz.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180400_zpsvsgjilgp.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180400_zpsvsgjilgp.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180406_zps8afcgaqj.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180406_zps8afcgaqj.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180414_zpshbw2qqpl.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180414_zpshbw2qqpl.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180436_zpsyabwcpkf.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_180436_zpsyabwcpkf.jpg.html)

I just don't think that's going to work, and this is a 2-gallon tank. I'm getting conflicting opinions as to whether that's big enough, which means I should probably target something larger.

So I pulled out the tape measure and came up with some dimensions. Then the box cutter and cardboard. :)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191039_zpsnauof8ib.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191039_zpsnauof8ib.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191049_zpsjuhvdffa.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191049_zpsjuhvdffa.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191101_zpscsvuoved.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191101_zpscsvuoved.jpg.html)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/carbuff69/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191321_zps2whjfth0.jpg (http://s100.photobucket.com/user/carbuff69/media/1971%20Firebird%20Formula%20-%20Project%20TOW/IMG_20160412_191321_zps2whjfth0.jpg.html)

This was a 12x12x5 box. It needs to be angled at the inner fender which cuts down on the available volume, but I also can go a little deeper at the firewall/back side. Doing a lot of math, I've determined that I can get a total volume of between 2.75 and 3.25 gallons. The effective volume would be less, as there has to be some air space at the top where the oil return comes back in.

Tomorrow I'm going to build some more models after doing my calcs. Making a box like this will restrict access to some things (#8 plug, although I can still get to it), the rear-most UCA screw (which I can get to from the bottom). But it may be a viable option...

More to come...

[Flash68]

Slowly.... Step away from the cardboard.... :lol:

Peterson 2.5 gallon on a LS in that location.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/IMG_2344_zpsr7h9a0yq.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/IMG_2344_zpsr7h9a0yq.jpg.html)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/IMG_2345_zps6648f432.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/IMG_2345_zps6648f432.jpg.html)

[grendel]

Why not run multiple tanks?

[Che70velle]

Bryan, if your gonna run a GOOD pump, like a Dailey you mentioned, then I'd personally put the tank in the rear of the car. It absolutely does not have to go in the front, as long as you have a nice oil pump involved. And it will move weight to the rear of the car at the same time. Doesn't have to be in the trunk either...there's room under the car. Far more room than what you have under your hood, ESPECIALLY if your going to go custom built through Stefs.
I'm also not sure that restricted push rods is your answer to this, along with a dry sump. Are you running a high volume oil pump? If so, that could be the issue. I'd bet you didn't drill holes in the lifter trays, for oil return either. The holes help keep the oil out of the area under the valve covers.
The dry sump will solve your oiling problems, if the entire oil distribution AND oil return process is done correctly.

[GregWeld]

Bryan, if your gonna run a GOOD pump, like a Dailey you mentioned, then I'd personally put the tank in the rear of the car. It absolutely does not have to go in the front, as long as you have a nice oil pump involved. And it will move weight to the rear of the car at the same time. Doesn't have to be in the trunk either...there's room under the car. Far more room than what you have under your hood, ESPECIALLY if your going to go custom built through Stefs.
I'm also not sure that restricted push rods is your answer to this, along with a dry sump. Are you running a high volume oil pump? If so, that could be the issue. I'd bet you didn't drill holes in the lifter trays, for oil return either. The holes help keep the oil out of the area under the valve covers.
The dry sump will solve your oiling problems, if the entire oil distribution AND oil return process is done correctly.




This is the reason I suggested a different engine builder.... There are so many great LS motors out running HARD on the track and not having the issues Bryan is/has had.

[ZMAN1969]

Bryan, sweet build, long read! Pg 19 had me drooling over the BBQ pics.
I used to have a Lucerne blue 72 T/A and this thread made me miss that car IIRC it ended up in Austin. I'll look for you at the next Goodguys I like the auto-X events what fun are the cars if we cant drive them hard? There is a builder up in Dallas are named Watt, I haven't used him but a buddy has if you haven't found anyone yet, carry on!

[carbuff]

Slowly.... Step away from the cardboard.... :lol:

Peterson 2.5 gallon on a LS in that location.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/IMG_2344_zpsr7h9a0yq.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/IMG_2344_zpsr7h9a0yq.jpg.html)



I'd love to see a picture of the firewall without the tank in place. That 2.5G tank is 24" tall. The mockup I made was the 2G tank, and it's 19.5" tall. There's no way I could put that height in that spot. As I type this, it's possible that may be a 7" diameter tank instead of the 6" I'm considering, but that wouldn't work either for me... :(

Their downbar is also further out than mine, giving more room between the bar and the engine/header.

Sure looks nice though. ;)

[carbuff]

Why not run multiple tanks?

You're not the first person to ask me this... ;)

From the people I have spoken to, this doesn't work. You want the oil to have time in the tank to remove the air (via the baffling in the tanks), and a smaller tank allows less time to do that. I also can only run a single pressure stage, I'm not sure how / if I could even plumb 2 tanks.

[carbuff]

Bryan, if your gonna run a GOOD pump, like a Dailey you mentioned, then I'd personally put the tank in the rear of the car. It absolutely does not have to go in the front, as long as you have a nice oil pump involved. And it will move weight to the rear of the car at the same time. Doesn't have to be in the trunk either...there's room under the car. Far more room than what you have under your hood, ESPECIALLY if your going to go custom built through Stefs.
I'm also not sure that restricted push rods is your answer to this, along with a dry sump. Are you running a high volume oil pump? If so, that could be the issue. I'd bet you didn't drill holes in the lifter trays, for oil return either. The holes help keep the oil out of the area under the valve covers.
The dry sump will solve your oiling problems, if the entire oil distribution AND oil return process is done correctly.

Hi Scott,

I considered the rear mounted tank. That would be a LONG run for hoses, and it would have to be in the trunk on my car. There just isn't any room under the car for anything else. I don't want to give up my trunk space for a 3-4G tank! This isn't a full-on racecar like Flash's BMF. ;)

This engine is a solid roller, and I use a set of link-bar lifters, so there are no trays to catch the oil. The original engine did have them (they were drilled). Pushrods definitely aren't the total solution, but not having restrictions does push more oil to the valve covers. :\

I'm going to talk with the builder to see if there is anything we could do to improve the drainback from the heads. I don't really want to run external lines for that, but maybe we can open up some passages, or at least smooth them a little if they are rough. I need to look through some of the old pictures of these heads before I installed them...

Oh, and I'm running a Melling 10295, the standard volume / high pressure pump.

[carbuff]

This is the reason I suggested a different engine builder.... There are so many great LS motors out running HARD on the track and not having the issues Bryan is/has had.

I'm more and more convinced that I should have been just fine with my current combination. As you say, there are plenty of C5 and C6 Vettes on the track which don't run a fancy oiling system, pull more G's than I do, and don't have these problems. Granted, COTA is a hard track on a car, a lot of high RPM 3rd gear time when I was there. Still, my combination shouldn't have had a problem...

I'm VERY curious what we're going to find when it is pulled apart...

[carbuff]

Bryan, sweet build, long read! Pg 19 had me drooling over the BBQ pics.
I used to have a Lucerne blue 72 T/A and this thread made me miss that car IIRC it ended up in Austin. I'll look for you at the next Goodguys I like the auto-X events what fun are the cars if we cant drive them hard? There is a builder up in Dallas are named Watt, I haven't used him but a buddy has if you haven't found anyone yet, carry on!

:thumbsup: I'm usually there (this past one being the exception) as are several others of us from the forum. Definitely stop by and say Hello in the Fall!

[Che70velle]

Bryan, carefully examine that oil pump, when you do the tear down. Those have been known to have the relief valve/plunger stick open. Not trying to start an oil pump war, just saying that it's happened before. I'm doing a 5.3 build right now for my nephew, and went with the Melling 295, and I checked it inside and out before installation. Hopefully you'll get your engine woes straightened out on the next one...that has to be getting VERY expensive.

[carbuff]

Bryan, carefully examine that oil pump, when you do the tear down. Those have been known to have the relief valve/plunger stick open. Not trying to start an oil pump war, just saying that it's happened before. I'm doing a 5.3 build right now for my nephew, and went with the Melling 295, and I checked it inside and out before installation. Hopefully you'll get your engine woes straightened out on the next one...that has to be getting VERY expensive.

Good suggestion. I'll have the builder pull it apart and take a look. I'm looking at one of the Schumann pumps as a possible wet-sump alternative. The plunger is replaced with a stainless steel ball to help prevent exactly what you describe.

Doing a full rebuild again this year after the full rebuild last year, then the cam upgrade, definitely wasn't planned for in the budget. :\ But it will get fixed, and I'll be back on the track soon!

[Panteracer]

I was always told you want a high volume
Pump not high pressure. Maybe dry sump Ls type
is different. I had a high pressure in one of my Poncho
motors and it washed the bearings.

Pantera has a high volume pump that the engine builder
prepped before installing with an Aviad pan With a mech
gauge shows 60 psi almost all the time. Motor is 10 years old
and sees track and autocross turns at 7500 rpm with steady pressure

Best motor I have ever had and I have lunched over a dozen
in my lifetime. But it is a dart Ford:). Flame suit on

Bob

[GriffithMetal]

This is where I mounted the LS7 tank in SWs Camaro
http://i64.tinypic.com/154a8w6.jpg

[GriffithMetal]

Slowly.... Step away from the cardboard.... :lol:

Peterson 2.5 gallon on a LS in that location.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/IMG_2344_zpsr7h9a0yq.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/IMG_2344_zpsr7h9a0yq.jpg.html)


Isn't that a 1st Gen F-body?

[Flash68]

This is where I mounted the LS7 tank in SWs Camaro
http://i64.tinypic.com/154a8w6.jpg

What's up Eric! That's another proven location for a tank. Stielow and others have placed it there AND thrashed on the cars successfully.

Isn't that a 1st Gen F-body?

Yes it is - it was just for context. Here is Finch's 2nd gen (he built that green 69 pictured as well) with the tank in the same location.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/1971-chevy-camaro-z28-engine_zpsrh5h8afo.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/1971-chevy-camaro-z28-engine_zpsrh5h8afo.jpg.html)

[grendel]

You're not the first person to ask me this... ;)

From the people I have spoken to, this doesn't work. You want the oil to have time in the tank to remove the air (via the baffling in the tanks), and a smaller tank allows less time to do that. I also can only run a single pressure stage, I'm not sure how / if I could even plumb 2 tanks.

It's really easy. Larger line (double the size) below the fill and suction line between two equal sized, baffled tanks. You're talking with Stefs. Ask them. They did it for my truck.

I think you're over thinking this.

[carbuff]

It's really easy. Larger line (double the size) below the fill and suction line between two equal sized, baffled tanks. You're talking with Stefs. Ask them. They did it for my truck.

I think you're over thinking this.

But how do you deal with the return? What type of pump did you have? Separate suction/return stages dedicated to each tank?

[carbuff]

I think you're over thinking this.

Oh, and wouldn't be the first time!

[carbuff]

I was always told you want a high volume
Pump not high pressure. Maybe dry sump Ls type
is different. I had a high pressure in one of my Poncho
motors and it washed the bearings.

Pantera has a high volume pump that the engine builder
prepped before installing with an Aviad pan With a mech
gauge shows 60 psi almost all the time. Motor is 10 years old
and sees track and autocross turns at 7500 rpm with steady pressure

Best motor I have ever had and I have lunched over a dozen
in my lifetime. But it is a dart Ford:). Flame suit on

Bob

Bob,

Maybe I have this all wrong... I have been avoiding the High Volume pumps as I assume those would make the problem even worse. Am I wrong on that? When I read high volume, I'm thinking that pump will suck the pan dry faster and push the oil up into the top of the motor. Is that wrong?

I have a phone call in to Schumann's who sells a ported and modified LS wet sump pump. I've read good things about them on various LS forums. I want to see what they have to say. They only do HV pumps, so maybe I'll learn more there too. :)

[carbuff]

This is where I mounted the LS7 tank in SWs Camaro
http://i64.tinypic.com/154a8w6.jpg

You know that I know you can make it work. ;) But the inner fender and core support in that area are very different on the Camaro and Firebird. I was starring at it last night. I considered having Stef's build a rectangular tank to fit in that space also. We'd have to move the AC components, but that wouldn't be a huge deal. Just new lines...

[Flash68]

There. You convinced yourself. Go dry sump. See, that wasn't so bad. :lol:

[gerno]

There. You convinced yourself. Go dry sump. See, that wasn't so bad. :lol:

Pretty sure you are trying to justify your build.......:snapout:

[Flash68]

Pretty sure you are trying to justify your build.......:snapout:

That ship sailed a long time ago.

Even his own builder is posting dry sump tank locations... :idea:

[DB Z28]

I,m in the same boat also looking where to place the dry sump tank. Looked at the firewall area and it it seem to close to headers in fear of heating the oil up too much. Might putting put it in the front where the battery was it will hang down slightly in the front wheel well area but than weight on the front end, And thought about putting it in the trunk but don,t know if its too long of a run for stock LS-7 pump?

[GregWeld]

I think you're over thinking this.



That would be a first!!! LOL



I'm hungry for some Salt Lick..... :popcorn2:

[Flash68]

Bryan -- talked to Sutton today -- he told me to tell you to go dry sump.


:theresa:

[carbuff]

Sigh...

I had written up a long description of how I made my decision and all of the work I was planning to do, and then I get an email reply from the engine builder regarding my oil pump selection. I had talked myself into a wet-sump solution, likely using a worked-over pump from Schumann. I read good reviews and talked with them on the phone about their pumps. But my builder (Halston) tells me his experience with the pump wasn't so positive. Great...

TOW is heading his way tomorrow. It will help to have another set of eyes looking at the car with me and discussing what I should do. I'll have more info soon.

In the meantime, I did make one purchase today targeted at helping with this problem. I decided to replace my PRC radiator with a unit from C&R Racing with integrated PS and oil coolers. I am going to have to replace my current radiator anyway as it is leaking (getting worse), so I decided to step up to a better unit. I will remove a good bit of plumbing and the current 2 coolers mounted in front of the AC condenser. That removes several additional AN fittings and lengths of hose. I will also remove the oil thermostat regardless of the wet vs dry sump solution. That cleans up yet another restriction in the system. Finally, I'm going to remove the second small oil filter which I am currently using from the system. I had decided on all of those if I were staying with the wet-sump, as they would remove a lot of plumbing and restrictions to the oil flow in the current setup... They just naturally go away with the dry sump solution...

More to come...

[carbuff]

Bryan -- talked to Sutton today -- he told me to tell you to go dry sump.


:theresa:

I love you guys...

:hairpullout:

[carbuff]

That would be a first!!! LOL



I'm hungry for some Salt Lick..... :popcorn2:

My current favorite. It's about 1 mile from where I live. An offshoot of one of the Lockhart places. ;)

http://terryblacksbbq.com/site/assets/files/1032/terryblacks-legendary-slide.jpg

[68LS1]

My current favorite. It's about 1 mile from where I live. An offshoot of one of the Lockhart places. ;)

http://terryblacksbbq.com/site/assets/files/1032/terryblacks-legendary-slide.jpg

That reminds me a need another visit to Austin :)

Would have been keen for Formula 1 this year but is son's 21st that week