Would a, "Old School", Type of Pro Touring car be accepted as "Pro Touring"?

[tyoneal]

Hello:

I know the question of what Pro Touring is or is not has been done forever.

When I first was working on a Corner Carving Camaro in the late 70's, the parts that were available were few and far between, but we did as much as we could.

I have an idea for doing a "Retro-Pro Touring" Car like you would see from maybe the late 1970's and 1980's before everything could be easily found to to have all the bells and whistles on it.

For instance, I have a 1965 Buick Riviera that is numbers matching and while it needs a paint job the interior and the body are in great shape.

I really want to have a Pro Touring Car with it, but I do not want to destroy the originality of it.

Here was my Plan:

1965 Buick Riviera Black/Black (Original Colors)
Big Sway bars front and rear.
Gas adjustable shocks all around
12.7:1 Ratio Steering box
Good sticky radial tires
Polyurethane bushings through out car

Engine is a 425 Nailhead with 2X4 intake, headers, a decent cam that is still street-able, Roller Rockers, Matched ports, and ported heads, swirl polished and 3 way valve grind on the valves. Headers with Ceramic Coating. Electronic "Re-Curved" Distributor.

Transmission would be a built ST 400 with a High Stall Variable Pitch Torque Convertor that could be used to launch at 1600 rpm's or 3200 RPM's. (Drivers choice while sitting in the car) In the rear a 3.23 Posi Rear End. The valve body would have a shift kit in it.

Front Disc Brakes would be added with a twin Master cylinder and proportioning valve. Once the car is on the road softer or firmer shocks and or springs could be added.

The Car from the out side would probably look fairly stock, but the handling and the performance should be greatly improved. When these cars came out they could hit 0- 60 mph in between 6 and 7 seconds with a 3.42 rear end.

The '65 was a one year car for the hide a way headlight during the 1st generation, so these Rivieras look really trick.

(For those who might be wondering, Where anything was machined or permanently changed, I bought other parts so the original parts would stay in original condition, lubbed wrapped up, and labeled, so Nothing would get lost, and it could always be 100% original if Need be)

Given what I have told you, could this car come to this Page/Site and be considered a True Pro Touring Car, just from a different Era?

I would really like your thoughts on this, because corner carving should be greatly enhanced after these upgrades have been made, as well as braking, and engine performance, Fast Turning ability etc.

Engine should be in the neighborhood of 400 Horsepower, and close to 500 ft pounds of Torque.

Please think about this and give me your thoughts?

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

Update: "She Devil" aka Betty is still moving forward, just slowly at the moment due to parts taking a while to receive. I still have the Keisler R/T 56 Dogbox Transmission that should be in shortly. They had one, but I wanted the "Road Racing" Gearing in it, and the ability to run a oil cooler if I wanted to at a later date. This held it back a bit. I should have some good pictures to post before long.

[OLDFLM]

I love the idea!! Restomod with performance, brake and handling upgrades! That's what this site is all about and what I believe most hobbyist are doing!
It's what I did with my car for 23 years... working on one aspect/project at at time as time and money allowed. For me, that was the fun of it all... researching, shopping on a budget, trying to get the best bang for the buck in each area... and doing it all yourself. I believe this is where the roots of the hobby are still!! Looking forward to your "Roadhouse Riviera" build thread!! :thumbsup:

[staged67gspwr]

I love 65 Rivies!

[tyoneal]

Here's a few pictures of what I'm starting with. The interior is just about perfect, the body has 45 years of doors dings and thin paint, and the underside requires some surface rust removal and repaint. This should at least give you a bit of a, "Before", thoughts as the project moves forward.

Any thoughts or comments appreciated.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

[tyoneal]

I love the idea!! Restomod with performance, brake and handling upgrades! That's what this site is all about and what I believe most hobbyist are doing!
It's what I did with my car for 23 years... working on one aspect/project at at time as time and money allowed. For me, that was the fun of it all... researching, shopping on a budget, trying to get the best bang for the buck in each area... and doing it all yourself. I believe this is where the roots of the hobby are still!! Looking forward to your "Roadhouse Riviera" build thread!! :thumbsup:

Your suggestion, "Roadhouse Riviera", is catchy. It might just wind up sticking to the Car.

Thanks,

Ty

[Bryce]

Ty what happened to your aero camaro

[vdrivinmike]

One of my favorite all time cars. I still kick myself for not buying my Uncle's 65 Riv GS about 12 years ago.

Of course, I was a broke dick lou at the time. :(

Sounds like a cool build

[Amatouring]

I think what you are planning sounds cool. I did a similar thing with my 70 Cuda, and previously with my 69 GTO. They looked totally stock unless you measure the sway bar diameter, or measure the rotor diameter behind the 15inch rallye wheels. While neither of them are a track day car, they handle and perform much like a modern car, and I think that is the point.
That is a great looking car, and I can see why you don't want to mess with the styling too much.:thumbsup:

[tyoneal]

Ty what happened to your aero camaro

These Aero-Camaro is still waiting for the some essential parts.

I like the person who is supplying the part(s), so I try to be flexible and understanding I know I have added some things in the past, so I would imagine that is some of the issue.

Oh well, the car will have some great parts and handling features before to long one way or the other, so I can get my butt in it and start driving it again.

In the mean time I've been focusing on the Riviera and the '64 Corvette that followed me home. That is going to also be a great project. I have a lot of parts from Mid-America coming so it should make a hell of a PT project in it's own right. I'll see if I can post a bit on it as well.

BTW: Is there a limit on how many pictures we can post? I tried to post a few more on the Riv the other night and they just wouldn't load.(?)

Any Ideas??

Anyway, that is the poop up to now. God I hope I live long enough to finish these cars.

Ty

[tyoneal]

One of my favorite all time cars. I still kick myself for not buying my Uncle's 65 Riv GS about 12 years ago.

Of course, I was a broke dick lou at the time. :(

Sounds like a cool build

Mike:

This is a pretty good time to buy one if you still think you might want one. The market is soft and a lot of people are looking for some quick cash. There have been a number of cars I've been tempted to pic up because 3 years ago they were about 2-3 times more expensive.

Give it some thought,

Ty

[tyoneal]

I think what you are planning sounds cool. I did a similar thing with my 70 Cuda, and previously with my 69 GTO. They looked totally stock unless you measure the sway bar diameter, or measure the rotor diameter behind the 15inch rallye wheels. While neither of them are a track day car, they handle and perform much like a modern car, and I think that is the point.
That is a great looking car, and I can see why you don't want to mess with the styling too much.:thumbsup:

Pt Judge: I appreciate you encouragement. The '65 Riviera's (To ME) looked like a custom car right out of the factory, especially the front end. IT look mean, sits low, and that old Nailhead pours out 465 ft. pounds of Torque at 2800 rpm's from the factory stock with one 4 BBL. Add a few goodies to it and the performance is pretty impressive for 45 y.o. technology. Last year on the Nailhead was 1966. All iron, no EFI, no Boost, just good ole American engineering from the late 50's.

That's what I think will make this car a blast is to see if I can make it a true (Recognized) PT Car given the lack of cutting edge Technology on it, and the Outstanding Competition that runs in the PT Community.

Do you have pictures of your Cuda and GTO? I'd be interested to see what you did with them.

Take care,

Ty

[tyoneal]

To All:

A few demolition pictures:

I'll try to get some better ones, but my little iphone is about all I have right now that is worth half a darn.

The last picture still shows some of the Aluminum Finned Front Brake Drums. All the Bushings are also in bad need of replacement.

In a nut shell it's just a 45 year old car that has had no restoration whatsoever other than yearly maintenance.

Thanks for looking.

More later,

Ty

[rogue]

I wouldn't mess up a 65 riviera trying to make it something its not. Its a gentleman's musclecar, leave it at that. AC and all the bells and whistles.

Eventually I want to build one as a daily driver they're so nice.

No aftermarket support. I'd keep it super clean and drop it on astro supremes with bellflower pipes. Maybe bags.

[tyoneal]

I wouldn't mess up a 65 riviera trying to make it something its not. Its a gentleman's musclecar, leave it at that. AC and all the bells and whistles.

Eventually I want to build one as a daily driver they're so nice.

No aftermarket support. I'd keep it super clean and drop it on astro supremes with bellflower pipes. Maybe bags.
====================
Rogue:

Nice to hear from you.

I'm just adding a few things that will help enhance the handling and performance. Everything that was taken off or changed has been bagged and labeled. The head work I had done, was done on an extra set of heads, same with the distributor. The Disc brakes were put on for sheer safety, yet all original item including the Brakes were saved.

When we were young kids, my Grandma used to take my brother and I out during the day to Drag Race with all the regular muscle cars. For a 4500 pound car it is surprisingly quick.

Believe me I do not want to do anything to wreck the originality of the car. It's been in the family for 45 years so far, and hopefully for many more. As long as the original equipment is in good shape, I think it will really be nice to give it as much umf as possible. It's a blast to drive. The handling will make a huge change in the fun factor.

A mild Pro-Touring 65 Riviera should make a real cool, fun car.

Does this make any sense?

Ty

BTW: Been out on the track lately? How are you getting along?

[tyoneal]

To All:

I'm getting the Engine "Freshened up", re-painted ect. I have the heads in and I'm still waiting on the cam, lifters, pushrods, timing chain and distributor. As I mentioned earlier EVERYTHING ORIGINAL is being kept ORIGINAL and prepped, wrapped up, and saved. Any parts modified for this car are extra parts I bought to use for the "Old PT Styling". I know it bugs people, but this car will never be sold by me, and if one of my decedents someday want all the original stuff they will have every nut screw and bolt it came with from the factory.

It should be a great "Cruiser", and for it's weight and the Build Goals I think it will surprise a few people.

Here's a 65 Riv doing a Burnout behind a VERY stupid girl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iypI7ziwvtM&NR=1

For those who haven't seen the "Clam Shell" lights work, here's a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKTAVWYfSnE&feature=grec_index

Here are a few pictures (Not the greatest) of the Bottom End of a "Nailhead". Also, I through a few pictures in of the interior. It is really nice, and with a good cleaning, should look brand new. I don't know if the pictures will do it justice as they were made with my iphone, but it's all I have at the moment.

I have acquired all new weather stripping, the can has been sent off for paint, ding repair, rust patching, trim polishing, and anything else that might be found.

Anyway, as I get some more information, I'll get it posted.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

[tyoneal]

I wouldn't mess up a 65 riviera trying to make it something its not. Its a gentleman's musclecar, leave it at that. AC and all the bells and whistles.

Eventually I want to build one as a daily driver they're so nice.

No aftermarket support. I'd keep it super clean and drop it on astro supremes with bellflower pipes. Maybe bags.
=====================================
Rogue:

I would like to see you get a 65 Riv. I think you would really enjoy it. It has a Good sporty ride, and will light up the tires if you are so inclined.

Let me know if you find one. There was a 64 Riv here Totally complete and running with just some surface rust on the paint. An older lady had bought it new and the family put it in storage. They were begging me to buy it for $500. I just didn't have the room to store it.

You might look around you never know what you may find.

Take it easy,

Ty

[tyoneal]

Been a while since I posted.

I thought I would make a update to the car.

Car has had all the dents and dings taken out, and has been media blasted to the bare metal. It has been fully painted, is currently curing. The front and rear bumpers, along with the wheels have been re-chromed.

The engine is coming back together, with a few new goodies.

The Rendering From Ben has been finished.
================================
A Good Contact:

Been working with a place in Frisco called, "Frisco Automotive". They have been great in helping get things coordinated and doing some of the specialized refurbishing that is needed on these older cars. Luckily they are close and very easy to work with. If you are in the Dallas, Plano, Frisco area, and have an older car, they have experience working on many different Brands from the 40's to current models. They are located off Main Street in Downtown Frisco.

http://friscoauto.com/

Ask for Charles, Jason or Warren. Here are a few of the other cars they were working on other than my Riviera.
===================================
Hopefully these pictures will turn out. I have some more, but they are so large, I'm having a bit of a time getting them smaller.

I'll get some more posted as I can.

Thanks for looking.

Take care,

Ty
See attached photos.

[Amatouring]

That car is going to look awesome. That Buick Engine is classic Cool.

[tyoneal]

Hello:

Here are the recent updates to the car.

Front Disci Brakes installed
Front Sway Bar Installed
Rear Sway Bar Installed
Rear Drum Break Overhauled
All dents removed from body
Front and Rear Bumpers re-chromed and installed
Engine Complete except for Carboration
Engine Pulley System Installed
Painted the original color of Tuxedo Black
Urethane Bushings have been installed
Bottom was treated for surface rust, primed, then painted "Chassis Black"
Body molding was polished after being straightened where necessary

I hope the pictures turn out well enough for you to see.

Take care and thanks for looking.

Ty O'Neal

[tyoneal]

The Pictures!

[tyoneal]

Paint and Body Pictures:

[tyoneal]

To all:

I hope these turn out well. I took the car out for a drive yesterday, and for 46 year old Technology via a 425 Buick Nailhead, it really Hauls Ass.

With the help, of posi-traction, huge sway bars, KYB Gas Shocks, Urethane Bushings, Disk Brakes, and a 12.7:1 Steering Box, this car handles really well.

I think for a "Vintage Style", Pro-Touring Car this is a pretty respectable car. I hope soon I can come out and play with the rest of the guys in this. I think it will surprise some of the people.

I hope you like it.

Take care,

Ty O'Neal

[staged67gspwr]

i freakin love those riv`s.

[tyoneal]

i freakin love those riv`s.

====================================

staged67gspwr:

I understand. Since I grew up with this car, (I was 3 when it was bought) I think this is where I learned to enjoy the smell of burning rubber, and the sound of squealing tires.

This is going to be a vary fun car to drive. I'm really interested in what the Engines output will be when I have it Dyno'ed.

The big sway bars, urethane bushings, quick steering box, gas shocks, and disc brakes, have made a huge difference in handling. The tires seem to be the big limiting factor at this point.

If it irritates me enough, I'll get some some of these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WVI-104-7734044/?rtype=10

These are 17 inch. Some lower profile, and some extra width should really help pick up the slack.

It will fun to see what a,"Old Technology, Pro Touring", car could do.

I'll try and get a Member Folder made for it.

Take care,

Ty

[tyoneal]

To Everyone:

As things are winding down here is a list of the items that have been replaced, adjusted or modified.

Information about the Engine, Transmission, and Rear End, followed by the Suspension Specifications.

Original Matching Numbers Engine:

425 c.i. Nailhead (LX Code)
Stock Block De-burred and repainted, "Riviera Green"
Original Forged crankshaft
Original Forged Rods
Stock Cast Pistons
Engine Balanced and Blue Printed
New Rings and Bearing throughout
Cam W-30, 233/233 Duration @.050, .474/.474 Lift at a true 1.6:1 Ratio, LSA 112* (Carman Faso)
Heads - intake and exhaust port matched, Bowls, Chambers, and Ports Cleaned up
New guides and seats (Carman Faso)
New Stainless, Swirl Polished Valves with 5 way grind
T/A Performance Roller Rockers
Original Cast Aluminum Buick Valve Covers
High Volume Oil Pump
Original Buick 2X4 intake port matched
Original Carbs rebuilt, and re-jetted
Original Air Intake Re-Chromed
Distributor turned, HEI and Tuned (Carman Faso)
T/A Shorty Ceramic Coated Headers, 2.5 inch minimum ID exhaust all the way back using 26 inch 2.5 ID Power Sticks, and "Classic" Chambered Resonators 2.5 inch ID.

Transmission

Original Matching Numbers TS 400
High Performance Valve Body
Reworked Governor Installed
Rest of Transmission gone through for quality
Re-worked 300 (12 inch?) Switch Pitch Torque Convertor. Stalls at 1600 rpm's at the low stall, and 2800 - 3200 rpm's at the high Stall
Case repainted
Seals, Gaskets, and Drive Shaft Joints replaced or serviced

Rear End

3.23 Posi Serviced and installed, replacing Original Peg leg Carrier, and 3.23 Gears.

Suspension

KYB Gas Adjustable Shocks
Stock Springs
1.25 Front Sway Bar
1.0 Rear sway Bar
Poly Urethane Bushings everywhere (The Black ones not the Red ones)
11.00 Inch Front Disc Brakes
New Master Cylinder and Power Booster
Lee Engineering 12.7:1 Steering Box
New Tires, 225-75-R15 all around
Re-Chromed Stock Buick Rallye Wheels (1965) (I still have the Wire spinner hub caps that came with it)

Body

All dents and dings removed
Repainted the Original Color, "Regal Black"

Interior

Original, "Regal Black" Deluxe Interior with Walnut Veneer and Original "Walnut" Steering Wheel
Detailed and Polished
Remote Toggle Switch, for Variable Pitch Transmission for some light to light action.
Vintage Buick, "Nailhead" Knee Knocker Tach. Mounted on Steering column, (In process of building the mount)

Photo Album with some Selected Pictures.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rivlist/photos/album/944482580/pic/list?order=ordinal

Hope you enjoy seeing my very special 1965 Riviera, and thanks to all the people who advised, helped with the wrench turning, or encouraged along the way.

Any comments or or suggestions are welcome.

Sincerely,

Ty O'Neal

[coolwelder62]

This is a very cool.These are really classy car's.:thumbsup: Scott

[Neil B]

I really like this style of build. I went a similar route with my '69 Z28. Being an original Z with it's original motor, I didn't want to change anything that couldn't easily be changed back. I updated the #'s 302 with aluminum heads, modern cam and valvetrain, headers and exhaust. The suspension got goodies from Hotchkis and Koni. I have not yet upgraded the brakes, mainly because I can currently run either my Forgelines or my 15" Minilites. The best part is, this car could be returned to stock right down to the smog system in a couple of days (but it's a whole lot more fun to drive now).

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/NeilB_photos/Side-1.jpg

[rogue]

trade the rivi for a stupid fast austin mini? :cheers:

[tyoneal]

I really like this style of build. I went a similar route with my '69 Z28. Being an original Z with it's original motor, I didn't want to change anything that couldn't easily be changed back. I updated the #'s 302 with aluminum heads, modern cam and valvetrain, headers and exhaust. The suspension got goodies from Hotchkis and Koni. I have not yet upgraded the brakes, mainly because I can currently run either my Forgelines or my 15" Minilites. The best part is, this car could be returned to stock right down to the smog system in a couple of days (but it's a whole lot more fun to drive now).

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t270/NeilB_photos/Side-1.jpg
===================================
Neil:

I like the way you did your Z/28. It makes a lot of sense to make it fun, yet not burn any "Original Bridges" behind you. For my taste with this Riviera, as you did with your car, originality AND some subtle modern upgrades create a tasteful balance of the old and new.

BTW: Your car looks great. I've always wanted to drive a real Z/28 Camaro with the high revving 302.

I think in the long run when starting with a numbers matching car, this is a reasonable approach for maximum enjoyment, mixed with originality, and preservation.

Is this how you see it?

Anyone else with some opinions one way or the other, please feel free to jump in. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Take care, and thanks for posting,

Ty

[tyoneal]

trade the rivi for a stupid fast austin mini? :cheers:

============================
Rogue:

It's nice to hear from you, how are you getting along these days? How is your new pup doing? Have you posted any more "Golden Coffin" pictures, or video lately?

I know early on in this project you may not have liked the ideas for this car.

"I wouldn't mess up a 65 riviera trying to make it something its not. Its a gentleman's musclecar, leave it at that. AC and all the bells and whistles."

That said, (and I do appreciate your honesty) I've really tried hard to keep the, "Things are only Original Only Once" option intact, while being able to be somewhat creative, and still embrace the Pro-Touring goals of the build.

=======================================
Here were my original Goals:

I have an idea for doing a "Retro-Pro Touring" Car like you would see from maybe the late 1970's and 1980's before everything could be easily found to to have all the bells and whistles on it.

For instance, I have a 1965 Buick Riviera that is numbers matching and while it needs a paint job the interior and the body are in great shape.

I really want to have a Pro Touring Car with it, but I do not want to destroy the originality of it.
========================================

Does this solution come close to meeting these goals? By your or anyone else's answers, (It's ok to "bash my ride", if I fell short of my goals with this project)

I honestly do appreciate everyones opinions of my efforts. Kind of like a peer review from the other people who really enjoy PT cars. (I use the term "Peer" loosely, as I'm positive most people here have a ton more experience than I do)

FWIW: I love the car, and I think my Grandfather would have a blast with it. (Now that that is said)

So being straight with an opinions will not make me feel bad. I really wanted to see if I could pull this idea off, based on the parameters I set, and the opinions of the group.

Has this attempt succeeded, or Failed based on my stated goals?

Whatever is decided, please give a reason for your decision, if you wouldn't mind. This is a learning exercise for me.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

BTW: Here is the Original Rendering against a finished product.

[rogue]

============================
Rogue:

It's nice to hear from you, how are you getting along these days? How is your new pup doing? Have you posted any more "Golden Coffin" pictures, or video lately?

I know early on in this project you may not have liked the ideas for this car.

"I wouldn't mess up a 65 riviera trying to make it something its not. Its a gentleman's musclecar, leave it at that. AC and all the bells and whistles."

That said, (and I do appreciate your honesty) I've really tried hard to keep the, "Things are only Original Only Once" option intact, while being able to be somewhat creative, and still embrace the Pro-Touring goals of the build.

=======================================
Here were my original Goals:

I have an idea for doing a "Retro-Pro Touring" Car like you would see from maybe the late 1970's and 1980's before everything could be easily found to to have all the bells and whistles on it.

For instance, I have a 1965 Buick Riviera that is numbers matching and while it needs a paint job the interior and the body are in great shape.

I really want to have a Pro Touring Car with it, but I do not want to destroy the originality of it.
========================================

Does this solution come close to meeting these goals? By your or anyone else's answers, (It's ok to "bash my ride", if I fell short of my goals with this project)

I honestly do appreciate everyones opinions of my efforts. Kind of like a peer review from the other people who really enjoy PT cars. (I use the term "Peer" loosely, as I'm positive most people here have a ton more experience than I do)

FWIW: I love the car, and I think my Grandfather would have a blast with it. (Now that that is said)

So being straight with an opinions will not make me feel bad. I really wanted to see if I could pull this idea off, based on the parameters I set, and the opinions of the group.

Has this attempt succeeded, or Failed based on my stated goals?

Whatever is decided, please give a reason for your decision, if you wouldn't mind. This is a learning exercise for me.

Thanks,

Ty O'Neal

BTW: Here is the Original Rendering against a finished product.

I've been real good and real sick. Thansk for asking. Ups and downs. Somedays I'm fantastic other weeks I'm down for 5 days in a row. Recently my pump went dry for a weekend and I spent the weekend fighting withdrawals instead of checking into the ER. Bad mistake. Doc said I was playing with my life. Just lots of sweating, swearing and lack of sleep and PAIN, lots of it.

The car looks fantastic.

Years ago I wanted to protour one, but after learning what protouring really means to most people, nope. I'd bag it and run astro supremes and skinny whites with lakepipes traditional 60s style. But thats just my opinion.
Love this one minus the striping:
http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/eventcoverage/0906rc_more_hot_rods_grand_national_roadster_show/photo_03.html
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZqXXq3ROw4k/TVKIA1pOowI/AAAAAAAADGw/gT81UENa66A/s1600/red_riviera5.jpg
Wheels and tires is all a riv need, the bags are neat because rivieras look MEAN low
That said I may buy one after selling the mini. I need to own one before I expire.

[rogue]

another in 60s traditional style...

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/608/3141/26519070020_large.jpg

[rogue]

mmmm sexy

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/seeten/Daytona%2009/100_7991.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/seeten/Daytona%2009/100_7994.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/seeten/Daytona%2009/100_7993.jpg

[rogue]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9193&d=1070493248

[tyoneal]

Rouge:

The car looks fantastic.

Thanks.

"Years ago I wanted to protour one, but after learning what protouring really means to most people, nope. I'd bag it and run astro supremes and skinny whites with lakepipes traditional 60s style. But thats just my opinion."

And I appreciate your input. I now understand where you were/are coming from.

You enjoy a combination of the 50's Lead Sled Styling, mixed with some Low Rider attitude. Right?

Is this pretty close? I love the 49-51 Merc's. Were my pockets a lot deeper, that would be one car I would have in my garage.

I hope someday you can get a riv. I think you would really enjoy it.

I hope your get to feeling better, for longer segments of time. I've mentioned you to my wife, and showed her your Camaro along with the Videos you've made. You have a fan believe me, she likes the cars I'm working on, but she can't wait for me to get the 69 Camaro on the road so we can enjoy that car the way you have yours.

The old Camaro I had was the car she and I started dating in, and like me we share many memories about that car. ;)

I look in the rear and I must of been a really skinny Sh*t back then, or very motivated. Probably both. :unibrow:

Please stay safe, and if you feel like it, shoot me an email with an update.

Also, any tips or suggestions ALWAYS pass those along.

Take care and hang in there,

Sincerely,

Ty

[Neil B]

===================================

I think in the long run when starting with a numbers matching car, this is a reasonable approach for maximum enjoyment, mixed with originality, and preservation.

Is this how you see it?

Anyone else with some opinions one way or the other, please feel free to jump in. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Ty

Hey Ty, this was definitely the right approach for me. Lots of people have said to sell this car and build whatever I want from a base car. But I do not want to sell this one or have the overhead of two separate 1st gens. I wanted to make this one my own without cutting, welding, or permanently altering anything. There is a subset of the car show crowd that really objects to this type of thing, but who cares.

[70rs]

Ty,
The car looks fantastic! And, for whatever its worth I think you did a great job of hitting the mark dead on! Great blend of updated performance, but without taking anything away from the original "feel" of the car. Nice job!

[tyoneal]

Hey Ty, this was definitely the right approach for me. Lots of people have said to sell this car and build whatever I want from a base car. But I do not want to sell this one or have the overhead of two separate 1st gens. I wanted to make this one my own without cutting, welding, or permanently altering anything. There is a subset of the car show crowd that really objects to this type of thing, but who cares.
======================================

Neil:

Thanks for the email and input. Did you keep all the parts so it could always be put back if you or some else decided to and some future date? If so, I could be wrong, but I'm not sure why the purest would even be upset. Most of the cars the purest want to do a "frame Off", rotisserie Restoration to, almost always need to be taken complete apart, cleaned/fixed/replaced, then reassembled.

Doing a build like this one I think isn't much different. You are just waiting to reassemble back to stock at a later time instead of immediately. One thing for sure though, at least on cars that are not well supported, you better keep ALL the nuts and bolts and pieces in a safe place, as they they would be almost impossible to acquire at a date sometime in the future.

Were you able to keep your parts organized and packaged in a easy to find way?

Thanks,

Ty

[tyoneal]

Ty,
The car looks fantastic! And, for whatever its worth I think you did a great job of hitting the mark dead on! Great blend of updated performance, but without taking anything away from the original "feel" of the car. Nice job!
============================

Eric:

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. The next thing I would like to do is get some good performance numbers on the Car now as it is vs. what Road and Track wrote about the car when they were new.

I would hope there would be some improvement, however I'm not sure how diligent the Magazines were back then in doing the testing in such a way that it was reliably repeatable, and that the Testing Parameters haven't changed in the last 45+ years.

I guess I'll see what the car can do.

0-60 mph
0-100 mph
60-0
Lateral acceleration
40-70 mph Passing time
etc., etc.

Then if the result don't pass the sniff test, I'll repeat them and see if at least my numbers are constant with themselves. While I am waiting, I'll research to see if there was a standardized methodology for a particular test.

I know in material science they use Test according to ASTM Standards. (American Society for Testing and Materials)

This reminds me of an article I read recently regarding the accuracy of engine Dyno's with the same car moving though a series of different testing machines. The results were interesting, and as a rule were all within a certain percentage of each other, but I think the consensus was that there were NOT going to agree with each other no matter what. Some additional measurements could have been taken, but maybe what they had already used up all the space they had for the article, or they didn't want to boar the readers?

I wish they had run the standard deviation with all the data, and using statistics, determine if the differences were significant, or basically "Noise".

I know, "Geek Alert", but it is a useful exercise, and occasionally turns out some very interesting information.

Anyway, thanks a again for writing, and the nice comments of my Riv. I appreciate it.

Take care,

Ty

[Neil B]

======================================

Neil:

Thanks for the email and input. Did you keep all the parts so it could always be put back if you or some else decided to and some future date? Were you able to keep your parts organized and packaged in a easy to find way?

Thanks,

Ty

Absolutely. Everything was bagged, tagged, boxed, and labeled. I almost feel like I'm doing a better job of 'preserving' the original cylinder heads by storing them instead of pounding the seats with unleaded gas or re-machining them. Plus, the aluminum heads I put on in their place are more detonation resistant with the 11:1 shortblock.

[osdmike]

Really nice !!!:drool:

[tyoneal]

Update:

Still working on a few kinks, and trying to get the Engine "Broken in" properly.

She pulls really strong. I haven't really gotten down on it yet, but I i know it will spin both tires on clean dry pavement pretty easily.

As soon as a few more miles pass and a few of the kinks get worked out, I'll try and get some video posted. I need to tinker a bit with the switch pitch torque convertor switch, and some further adjustment is needed on the carb linkage, the idle "step up" switch, and getting the carburetors properly in tune.

With the quick steering box, the new shocks, polyurethane bushings, and big sway bars, she handles, and steers like a much newer car. It's very cool how much attention that car gets.

There is a local night at the track in september, I'm going to try and hit it so I can get some real world number on just how well or not it really runs.

More later,

Ty O'Neal