Harness bar without rollcage

[DRJDVM's '69]

Wasnt sure if the Interior Forum was best place to post but....

I really want to put a full 4/5 point belt system in the Cuda, but dont want a full cage.....it wil be a street car, so I'm worried about the whole "smack your head" deal etc......but thats a whole 'nother discussion :)

Right now my plan is to do a "road race" style cage......main hoop, removeable crossbar, downbars to the trunk etc, but was trying to come up with an idea to have a crossbar for the belts but no main hoop etc etc....

I remember one car on here quite awhile ago that had the crossbar integrated into the structure near the quarter window.....

My Camaro has the "road race" cage and my head isnt very far from the upper part of the main hoop and now that my kids are getting bigger, the downbars in tha back are making me more nervous too......

[Musclerodz]

Wasnt sure if the Interior Forum was best place to post but....

I really want to put a full 4/5 point belt system in the Cuda, but dont want a full cage.....it wil be a street car, so I'm worried about the whole "smack your head" deal etc......but thats a whole 'nother discussion :)

Right now my plan is to do a "road race" style cage......main hoop, removeable crossbar, downbars to the trunk etc, but was trying to come up with an idea to have a crossbar for the belts but no main hoop etc etc....

I remember one car on here quite awhile ago that had the crossbar integrated into the structure near the quarter window.....

My Camaro has the "road race" cage and my head isnt very far from the upper part of the main hoop and now that my kids are getting bigger, the downbars in tha back are making me more nervous too......

Look at Kyle Busch's car on DSE site. I think they did a harness bar by reinforcing the B pillar

[fletcherscustoms]

Billys charger has a harness bar thats connected at roof and b-pillar. I'm also looking into doing one for our new 67 Chevelle project

[DRJDVM's '69]

Yeah I saw Bills Charger at SEMA last year and was interested in maybe doing it like that too..... it at least removes the top of the main hoop and the rear down bars.....

[The WidowMaker]

i checked out the busch car, any pics of the charger?

[67ragtp]

Ned,

We integrated one in to my chassis/body on my 69 camaro. I drew up some rough pics and sent it over to Mike Riggs he ran with it while preparing my sheet metal body . He had so many pics up on his website but took them all down. Im looking at this one pic of the car with no rear quarter on it and said to myself, how cool would it be to add a solid 1 inch bar from the b pillar to the end of the quarter where the striker is bolted in all reinforces with 1/8" plate and a 1/4" tab welded to the bar to protrude out a slot in the top beauty reveal. A couple of cletes in the trunk and the bar has storage as well. Its not for everyone but my logic is, Im not going through the windshield in the event of a front end collision and dont want a 3 point harness. Should hold you in the seat firmly during vigorous driving excursions. I wish I had the pics when Mike had the quarter open, here's one that gives you an idea. If you look closely at the right corner of the pic you can see the bar going to the b pillar, clears all the quarter window hardware nicely.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/ragtp/Picture193-1.jpg
Rich

[The WidowMaker]

obviously some reinforcement is needed where the mount is welded, but do you guys think we (the ones with quarters on) could do without the extra reinforcing bars that we've seen. my thought would be yes since the stock belts mount through sheet metal and the piece we are talking about isnt a flimsy piece and it is welded to tons of stuff around its perimeter.

thoughts?

[DRJDVM's '69]

Rich
That's simiar to what they did on the Kyle bush car. I'm leaning towards doing that.... I looked at that area yesterday and it looks like it wouldn't be too hard to reinforce that area even with the quarter panel on. In my car there's quite a bit of space in there and the access to get in there isn't too bad

I've been thinking about how much force it would need to support and if you look at the way the stock upper belt attaches to the c pillar area, it ain't too beefy up there :) and neither is the floor for that matter

When it comes to safety it's always better to over engineer something but in my mind alot of extra bars etc wouldn't really be necessary. A big flat plat the distributes all that force over a large area and the way the b pillar and inner structure all connects it's pretty stout to begin with

I think something pretty stout could be done with the quarters on. With the DSE car the took the top part of the b pillar off to get better access but did it with the quarter on

[The WidowMaker]

ned, not to derail, but i think your thoughts are in line with mine; kids equal no roll bar but i still want the harnesses for the autocross and any other spirited driving. but what do you do about shoulder belts when the kids are in the car? i drove the chevelle for 5 years with lap belts only, but i wouldnt ever do it again. whats the solution? a removable bar makes the kids safe, but how do you quickly get yourself a 3 pt?

[DRJDVM's '69]

I was planning on doing some stuff to reinforce the package tray with either a bar under it/inside the trunk and/or adding a big flat plate under the tray and then bolt through it. Then a 4 point harness for each passenger

The principle is the same..... Take the force placed on that one attachment and spread it out over a large surface area. No different than the way the stock belts work

Look at the stock belt hole in the floor..... It usually just has a big flat washer or plate to reinforce the floor

[The WidowMaker]

so your plan is 4pt per passenger all the time? that would work if thats the case. still not sure if i would want a bar back there even with the 4pts though.

i had thought about doing 3 pts in the rear for the kids, but they will be in booster seats for a long time to come. still looking for ideas. looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Tim

[Fluid Power]

I am at this point with my convertible as well. I don't want to run just lap belts only, but running a roll bar with kids in the back seat is out as well. This is the one item that I have not been able to move beyond and finish the interior and the car.....

Darren

[DRJDVM's '69]

If there is one bar going from B pillar to B pillar and its essentially right up against the back of the seat, and the rear passengers are in 4 point belts, there is no way anything critical (like you face/head) is going to hit that bar.

Yes, in the event of a huge rollover etc, arms or legs could come into contact with it, but they may also hit the roof, window, seat and a million other places too that could do just as much damage. I think the risk is pretty small.

Now if there are big down bars, main hoop and a halo..... thats where "head vs bar" starts to come into play......

[96z28ss]

If there is one bar going from B pillar to B pillar and its essentially right up against the back of the seat, and the rear passengers are in 4 point belts, there is no way anything critical (like you face/head) is going to hit that bar.

Yes, in the event of a huge rollover etc, arms or legs could come into contact with it, but they may also hit the roof, window, seat and a million other places too that could do just as much damage. I think the risk is pretty small.

Now if there are big down bars, main hoop and a halo..... thats where "head vs bar" starts to come into play......

Thats why I had my rear down bars follow the roof a bit before they turned down. But i also wanted to use a factory headliner but if I was doing a totally custom unit they it would tuck up against the roof and sides, the headliner would cover it.

[jonkiwi]

a simple harness bar for 4 point belts is exactly what i'm after for my 67 camaro. i have an otherwise finished car and am simply retro-fitting for schroth's 4-point profi II asm harnesses (awesome belts by the way). i figure that after 10 years of driving around with lap belts only, i've already spent 8 of my 9 lives, and i'm not interested in having shoulder belts dangling from the roof liner.

couple questions to those on this thread that appear to best informed:

- does the b-pillar need to be heavily reinforced like it would appear was done on the DSE/kyle busch car? really want to avoid having to remove quarters

- can anyone in southern california recommend a fabricator to fab a bent harness bar with drop pin ends so its removable? as opposed to a straight bar like on rich's (69ragtp) convertible, i want one that kinks back a little

- any ideas for drop pin mounts with polyurethane bushings to minimize the squeaking from the connections

thanks in advance for any comments, jonathan

[The WidowMaker]

here are the clamps im thinking of using and i dont think these will squeak.

also, im not one of the experts, but looking at the significant structure we would be welding to, along with how the factory has it done, i cant see needing all of what dse did. look at the upper belt holes in a chevelle, or the holes in the floor backed by a plate and youll see what i mean.

my plan is to solid weld one of these ends to a 3/16 plate and then insert it from inside the quarter and poke it out into the interior. i will then slide another piece of 3/16 over the exposed piece and plug weld it through the sheetmetal into the 3/16 piece now inside the quarter. i dont think it will need much more.


http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/assets/images/IDtubeclamp1.jpg
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/assets/images/IDtubeclamp2.jpg
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/assets/images/IDtubeclamp3.jpg
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/assets/images/IDtubeclamp4.jpg

[jonkiwi]

you're right, those connectors look nice and beefy, would definitely not squeak when screwed tight. much better than a simple drop pin.

only concern would be one side of the connector is going to be permanently mounted to b-pillar and would be kinda knarly to catch yourself on getting in and out of the back when the harness bar is not in place.

one alternative connector i thought might work is the sort ridetech uses for their tigercage as below.

going to have a fabricator that i found in anaheim give me a few ideas and price it out.

thanks tim for your input on the b-pillar strength.

[The WidowMaker]

let me know if your guy in anaheim works out. my neighbor went back to work and quit making rhino cages out of his garage. he also sold his bender, so i may need a bar bent as well.

Tim