TIG welding sheetmetal

[out2kayak]

Just curious how folks setup your TIG machines for welding sheet metal.

Do you still follow the 1 amp / .001" rule of thumb?

I've been playing in the 80 amp range for 16 gauge with 15 CFH and a 3/32 2% lanthanated tungsten.

I've been reading at http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6292 a "no hammer method" of welding sheet metal that I'm going to try, but wanted to hear what others are doing.

Thoughts?

:cheers:

[The WidowMaker]

im interested as well.

for the 16ga 304 exhaust that i just did, i was running 65-70a with the pulse set to 2ppm 75/25 and i was getting good penetration with a back purge. used an 1/8th 2% lan and 18cfh.

im still new and suck at keeping my hands moving and adding filler for other style joints. i have a dynasty 200dx and bought the hand controls. it only sucks because my hand is positioned so far down the torch. it makes it really hard to keep it stable. foot controls would make it easier in some aspects, but i really liked being able to tack under the car without the lift arc.

[ccracin]

I'll make it a third for this discussion. Bring on the info people!

[Fluid Power]

I wish I knew as well. I read a lot of stuff on here:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

Darren

[ironworks]

I say BS on the no hammer method. I takes very little heat to warp a panel. 48" at 2.5 minutes is 3 seconds. If you have ever TIG welded that is a pretty fast feed rate. The most important part of welding sheetmetal is cooling your panel. The more heat you put in the panel the more you have to fix. Plus how many sheetmetal panels on a car are 16 gauge? Most are 18-20 gauge. 18 gauge is .045 and 16 Gauge is .065. I doubt you could fully penetrate and .065 panel with a fusion weld that was not thin.

I got it maybe this weld was done under water. There we go, under water TIG welding will help control distortion.

[ccracin]

I got it maybe this weld was done under water. There we go, under water TIG welding will help control distortion.

I'm sorry I asked! :( Job security ha Rog! :lol:

[ironworks]

Man I wish it was that easy and I'm down to be proven wrong. But I know too many talented sheetmetal guys that do it differently and it takes alot longer then what he says. I would want to see it in person. Before I would even waste my time to try what he is saying.

[GregWeld]

I see several things wrong with this guys story.... especially the speed part. Not to mention not wearing gloves... that's not even smart. And I'd catch the paper towel on fire in the first tack. Why expose your hands to the UV...

I've TIG'd a fair amount of sheet metal.... and I find that if I tack - skip - tack - skip - tack - hammer the gap/warp flat around each tack before I continue - and COOL the metal as I go... The key for me is minimal heat - tack quickly - patience - cooling - tapping the gap gets the job done.

Warpage - in all welding materials and types - is all about heat control... and that is FAR harder to learn than "melting metal and adding filler"...

Doing stainless sheet -- with PERFECT fit up -- you can tack with a quick stab of the foot control - no filler... just a very quick "zap" and you're done... and even that will pull the gap off... so you have to tap that gap back before you move on.

I only use a foot control -- I put the finger control away and have never gotten it out since. I have to steady/rest my torch hand and filler hand --- or fugedidaboudit.


See any warpage in this tank I made?

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0955.jpg

[Teetoe_Jones]

See any warpage in this tank I made?

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0955.jpg

Is the tank behind those two mirrors?

Nice work man!

Tyler

[GregWeld]

Is the tank behind those two mirrors?

Nice work man!

Tyler



Yes it is!! You're good man!! :rofl:

I'm the short fat one with the camera... I made this MIRROR POLISHED SS fuel tank for my buddy. The one with the big smile.


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0949.jpg

[out2kayak]

Agreed, welding without proper protection is just dumb.

Yep, I'm a tack - skip - tack - skip - tack - hammer the gap/warp flat around each tack before I continue kind of guy.

But then again, I never claimed to know everything and am always willing to listen and learn.

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Joe --

I know just enough to make a mess out of most of it... :D

Everybody develops their own technique - based on instruction - and tips from others etc - and in the end - they do what works for them. I might feed the fill slightly different than someone else - and when we get done - the beads look about the same.

I - like most of us on here probably - weld all kinds of different stuff and different gauges - and jump around -- so it's always harder to be real proficient like a factory guy that welds the same stuff all day long. And I might not weld anything at all for days at a time, so there's always the rust that sets in. One day I might weld up a neighbors garbage can lid - then days later be making an aluminum bracket. It's all fun.

[GregWeld]

Just curious how folks setup your TIG machines for welding sheet metal.

Do you still follow the 1 amp / .001" rule of thumb?

I've been playing in the 80 amp range for 16 gauge with 15 CFH and a 3/32 2% lanthanated tungsten.

I've been reading at http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6292 a "no hammer method" of welding sheet metal that I'm going to try, but wanted to hear what others are doing.

Thoughts?

:cheers:

I typically run more amperage than I want to use... and because I use a foot pedal - I can back off or add heat as needed. I like to set the machine up just a little higher -- and then just use the bare minimum needed to make the weld.

I will always use the smallest tungsten I have to weld with especially on sheet metal. I like the keep the arc tight - the arc distance tight - and again - the minimum amount of heat to do the job. 3/32" on sheet metal -- is way large by huge. For sheet metal like we're talking about - car patches etc -- I'm in the 1/16th or .040 range again - depending on the heat... too small and you're going to blow tungsten into your weld... to large - and it takes too much heat to even get the tungsten working and by then - you're going to have a big HAZ and or a big ol' hole to fix. :lol:

[kennyd]

.


See any warpage in this tank I made?




no i dont BUT welding stainless #1 and welding stainless on a edge#2 is alot easier than regular steel .

but yes good job on the tank anyway

[GregWeld]

Totally agree Kenny ---

Thanks for the compliment -- I was trying to show what a half azzed home welder can do... if they're careful with the heat etc.

[out2kayak]

Yep, a foot petal is a must. Most of mine is by touch, looking at the puddle and adjusting the foot and fill rod accordingly. Thus the "80 amp range", as it depends on where my foot is at any one time.

Will have to try going smaller that 1/16th. Have not, but what I've worked on is a bit thicker.

:cheers:

-- Joe

[ccracin]

Yes it is!! You're good man!! :rofl:

I'm the short fat one with the camera... I made this MIRROR POLISHED SS fuel tank for my buddy. The one with the big smile.


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0949.jpg

You know, I thought you'd be taller! :rofl:

[GregWeld]

You know, I thought you'd be taller!
__________________
Chad



Wait til you see me standing by Charley or Rodger.... :willy:


You shrink as you get older. :D

[ccracin]

You know, I thought you'd be taller!
__________________
Chad



Wait til you see me standing by Charley or Rodger.... :willy:


You shrink as you get older. :D

That was my quote from the movie Roadhouse! I'm about the same height as Rodger! :lol: Wish I could get to SEMA to meet up with you guys. If you do a good Don Corleone voice, Rodger Charley and I could follow you around looking mean! :rofl:

[GregWeld]

Rodger said we'd be like "Twins".

:rofl:


Sorry to hear you're too cheap to buy a plane ticket.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I see several things wrong with this guys story.... especially the speed part. Not to mention not wearing gloves... that's not even smart. And I'd catch the paper towel on fire in the first tack. Why expose your hands to the UV...

I've TIG'd a fair amount of sheet metal.... and I find that if I tack - skip - tack - skip - tack - hammer the gap/warp flat around each tack before I continue - and COOL the metal as I go... The key for me is minimal heat - tack quickly - patience - cooling - tapping the gap gets the job done.

Warpage - in all welding materials and types - is all about heat control... and that is FAR harder to learn than "melting metal and adding filler"...

Doing stainless sheet -- with PERFECT fit up -- you can tack with a quick stab of the foot control - no filler... just a very quick "zap" and you're done... and even that will pull the gap off... so you have to tap that gap back before you move on.

I only use a foot control -- I put the finger control away and have never gotten it out since. I have to steady/rest my torch hand and filler hand --- or fugedidaboudit.


See any warpage in this tank I made?

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Floyds%20SS%20fuel%20tank/IMG_0955.jpg

wow, when I grow up I wanna weld like you.

So thats no filler?


vince

[GregWeld]

Vince -- Trust me -- I suck.

You're right - hardly any filler --- only dipped as I had to and then ran it as far as I could. The fit up was really good and I tacked it tight and used light taps to keep the gap closed.

A corner weld like this is probably the easiest weld to make... and SS welds really nicely.

I was really trying to show that with just "enough" heat -- you can really control the warping. On this tank -- I wanted NO warping if at all possible. :cheers:

[TimeWarpF100]

Just curious how folks setup your TIG machines for welding sheet metal.

Do you still follow the 1 amp / .001" rule of thumb?

I've been playing in the 80 amp range for 16 gauge with 15 CFH and a 3/32 2% lanthanated tungsten.

I've been reading at http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6292 a "no hammer method" of welding sheet metal that I'm going to try, but wanted to hear what others are doing.

Thoughts?

:cheers:

Good Question! Getting too old to remember settings...I will have to get back with you on that one! LOL I use 1/16 or .040 depending on what sheet metal I am welding. 3/32 maybe on 16 gauge or more. I have also found how I grind the tungsten makes a HUGE difference.

If a critical area I use heat sink to keep the heat where I am welding and it works well.

Not mild steel but this is a tank Ijust built for my old pickup

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/CalypsoCoralBoss302/1965%20Deluxe%20Camper%20Special/Refurbish%202010/e8bec69a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/CalypsoCoralBoss302/1965%20Deluxe%20Camper%20Special/Refurbish%202010/d05d8e39.jpg

[Sandbagger]

I could use a little advice here ....ok allot of advice
Im trying to tig 18 & 20 guage sheet metal . I do alot of patch panels .
Not having much success with this Miller Econotig . I have a foot pedal .
I have tried 3/32 tungsten .Today I tried a 1/16 tungsten and filler rod .
I was told today it would be very difficult to do 20 guage with this welder .
True ?
3/32 I burned through . 1/16 not enough .
I have been grinding to a point allot like a #2 pencil . Tried all kinds of stick out with the tungsten .
frustrated ...

When I turned the amps down , I got an arc through the cup , or diffuser . Not the tungsten .a couple times .

[GregWeld]

I could use a little advice here ....ok allot of advice
Im trying to tig 18 & 20 guage sheet metal . I do alot of patch panels .
Not having much success with this Miller Econotig . I have a foot pedal .
I have tried 3/32 tungsten .Today I tried a 1/16 tungsten and filler rod .
I was told today it would be very difficult to do 20 guage with this welder .
True ?
3/32 I burned through . 1/16 not enough .
I have been grinding to a point allot like a #2 pencil . Tried all kinds of stick out with the tungsten .
frustrated ...

When I turned the amps down , I got an arc through the cup , or diffuser . Not the tungsten .a couple times .


Nobody can teach you how to TIG weld via a forum.... YOU are probably doing something wrong - but it'd be pretty dang hard to say what that would be by reading and replying to a post. Not being a smart ass here -- or being down on you. Just trying to be factual. TIG is an acquired art/skill. The settings are "guidelines" - to be adjusted by the welder depending on the materials being used... the job... the skill... the speeds at which the individual welder welds... it's all "sorta"...

It could be the way you're grinding your tungsten - could be the gas flow - could be the material - could be the fit up - could be the who knows what.

Check your GROUND.... Check that your material is as clean as a newborns butt... or cleaner. DO NOT USE CHLORINATED CLEANERS -- that will kill you... I clean all my edges with a scotchbrite or 3M scuff pad on a die grinder... get the scale etc off the edges. Get 'em down to brite clean metal... FIT UP IS SO IMPORTANT - CLOSE MAN - GET EM CLOSE. You should be able to tack the piece in without filler on a corner weld... probably have to use some filler on a butt weld (like a fill panel)...

20 gauge is weldable with a book of matches... any welder can handle that gauge... so that isn't the problem. The thinner the material the more skill required would be my only caveat.

What gas are you using -- should be ARGON only -- 100%. Flow around 10 or 12 CFH @ 20 psi

You should use a 1/16" 2% Ceriated/ or 2% Thoriated tungsten with a sharp point - and 1/16" filler - ER70S6.

How are you sharpening your points? Do you use a dedicated wheel? If not - you should...

Look up - YOUTUBE - and search videos on sharpening your tungsten if you haven't already. And also search and watch any videos you can on beginning TIG welding. You might pick up some info that will help you.

I'm sorry that you are frustrated with this style of welding -- but once you get the hang of it - you won't want to weld any other way!

[Sandbagger]

After some reading last night ...
I have been grinding the tungsten incorrectly .
Right on the machine it says 20g -difficult ,and a guy at the welding supply says an Econotig only goes down to 20 amps and I would have a tough time .
I have welded 1/8 inch plate with this machine ,just having a tough time on 18-20 -22 guage
I am useing the rod & tungsten you suggested .Metal is clean and no gap .
Check the gas flow And try again today . It has to be something simple Im doing wrong ...
Thanks ...

[parsonsj]

Regarding the OP and fellow using high heat and welding fast to minimize heat, I think that's usually a better way to weld. I don't know about 140A on 16g sheetmetal, but I use about 60A+ when I'm welding SS tube on headers and exhaust.

I've found that I get a better weld, with more penetration when I used torch movement to control heat along with amperage. I think that's true in general, and I've been making a real effort to increase my travel speed along with higher amperage.

Like others have said, there are probably lots of "correct" ways to weld. :)

[68protouring454]

on anything 20 ga and thinner i use .040 tungsten, with .035 filler.
20 ga to 16 ga i can use 1/16th and .045 er70 filler. generally 40-60 amps on a miller 250 syncrowave

[GregWeld]

BTW -- Proper "fit up" means -- You should not be able to fit your filler in the gaps -- and tighter fit up than that would be even better.

[Sandbagger]

Had some success today , Thanks .
Gringing the Tungsten was most of the problem , new regulator too .
When they say you dont want to go back ti the Mig they aint kidding .
Working on some 32Y body Ford fenders . Most of my parts have zero gap .
1/10 the clean up time compared to Mig
:woot:

[GregWeld]

GOOD TO HEAR!!

It's fun when it's going "right".