New DSE suspension on Buick G-Body

[boosted6]

I would like to start this off with a little information on what we’re doing to our GNS Test Car and our goals then move into the build process with some install pictures. Our goal with this car is to frequent Autocross & Road courses while keeping a Track Ready Street Friendly handling car whether it be on the street, at the drag strip or on a closed course. Our motto here is "Function is Everything"!

We chose Detroit Speed & Engineering’s full G-Body suspension package as the suspension for our GNS Test car. We will be at DSE Tomorrow documenting and doing the install. One thing about DSE, They are pounding their cars every weekend, customers are pounding their cars every weekend, and most of the time a DSE equipped car is winning and that alone made it an easy choice for us.



We will start off with some basic measurements to give us a base to start with.

Here are a few basic numbers on our GNS test car:

Wheel base: 2746mm - 108.1in

Track: Front: 1486mm - 58.5in / Rear: 1466mm - 57.7in

Length: 5095mm - 200.6in

Width: 1819mm - 71.6in

Height: 1387mm - 54.6in


Drag Coefficient: 0.410 (Tested by GM)


Current Tire / Wheel sizes: Wheel make- CCW / 3-Piece

FRONT WHEEL: 18" X 9.5" - 4.75 Back Spacing
REAR WHEEL: 18" X 10.0" - 4.75 Back Spacing

FRONT TIRE: 255-35/18
REAR TIRE: 285-40/18

NOTE: No rubbing issues at all with stock suspension!! Went to Hotchkis lowering springs in the rear only and it dropped it perfectly 1". Got minor rubbing so I rolled the lips with the moldings.


Stock ride height from floor to wheel well lip w/CCW wheels:

FRONT: 25.5"
REAR: 27.75"

REAR ride height After installing the Hotchkis lowering springs = 26.75"



4-Corner Scaling: Done on (8/30/10)

Next we SCALED the car on all 4 corners to give us a weight on all 4 corners before installing the DSE suspension. After the installation we will re-scale the car to see how much weight was shaved and where.

When trying to even up cross weight you want to get as close to 50% as possible.

Here is what we had in the car had at Scaling..

* Full tank of gas just topped off!
* Nothing left inside the cars counsel /glove box, no floor mats.
* Nothing in the trunk.
* Tires at recommended pressure.

First we started with leveling the scales on the surface to make sure they were level before we started. This was done using a 6ft level across the scales, and then we jacked the car up in the center and lowered it onto the scales front & rear. With the whole car resting on all four individual scales we took measurements.


FRONT "CAR ONLY":

* Left = 997 lbs
............................Total front "car only" = 1,953 lbs
* Right= 956 lbs


REAR "CAR ONLY":

* Left = 695 lbs
............................ Total Rear "car only" = 1,436 lbs

* Right = 741 lbs


Completed Percentages & Formula:

Front Bias: 1953 / 3389 = .57627 = 57.6%
Rear Bias: 1436 / 3389 = .42372 = 42.4%


The left front and right rear are heavier than they should be. The left side usually is heavier than the right, - "without driver". Next time we scale the car we will disconnect one end link on the front and rear anti roll bars when scaling, then connect them on the scales and shim them so they don't jack weight from one corner to the other. Doing this removes any unwanted bind the sway bars could be causing. Raising a spring perch on the LF corner will increase weight on the LF and RR corners.

Our left and right side weights add up to almost even, so by adjusting the heavy corners we should be able to balance them pretty close without driver.


Next post will be install pictures and more measurements.


SW.



Picture below is how the car sits now... Stay Tuned! More to Come!!!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/GN%20X%20Ray/misc008.jpg

[Blake Foster]

those cars just look good White!

[boosted6]

It is 12:30 am here and I just walked in the door from DSE in Mooresville,NC. What a facility that is! We had to push Dale Earnhardt Jr's 1967 Camaro off the lift to make room for our TR Regal!!! I missed Kyle Bush by one day picking up his camaro....bummer. That would have been nice to see his too and meet him.

I can't even begin to say how nice everyone is at DSE, Kyle Tucker (owner) Made me feel right at home, He then changed clothes and jumped right in with his employee's and got filty tearing my car apart!! With everyone there being so nice, it was a bummer to leave... That place is "Top Notch" and the craftsmanship and fabrication those guys do just blows me away, These guys know what there doing!!

The complete DSE suspension is now on the car and "WOW" what a Big difference!!! It's Crazy!!



The following parts were installed:

FRONT:
* DSE Upper & Lower tubular A-arms w/Delrin bushings
* DSE Hollow Tubular sway bar
* DSE Front frame braces
* DSE 2" Drop Springs
* DSE Shocks

REAR:
* DSE Upper & Lower Adjustable control arms
* DSE Rear 1 1/8" Chassis mounted Tubular Sway Bar
* DSE 2" Drop Springs
* DSE Shocks
* DSE Drive shaft loop


Tomorrow we will be thrashing on the GNS car to get it ready for the start of Fridays RTTH event but as soon as I get an chance to go through the 200+ pic's I took and the (2) 90min videos I took I will post them here with a small detailed write up with measurements, Alignment info, Ride height info ETC...

We were ALL very supprised on how easy these parts went on the first G-Body Turbo Regal.. They literally just fell into place without hassle! I was amazing to even see the front springs go in so easy with a floor jack!! It's on video!

Okay, it's time to crash..Thanks for looking, Stay tuned for the interesting stuff!


Scot W.

[boosted6]

Okay, I have some time so I thought I would post up some pic's from my trip to DSE.

DSE Facility..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE001.jpg

Kyle (owner) & Ryan (designer of the G-Body products) taking it for a spin on the proving ground course Before the install.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE003.jpg

The car in the shop.....That's Dale Earnhardt Jr's Camaro beside it to the left..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE006-1.jpg

The DSE staff doing some evaluating/documenting before the tear down..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE013.jpg

A look at the Front parts ready to install..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE004.jpg

A look at the Rear parts ready to be installed..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE005.jpg

Kyle Tuckers 1970 Camaro..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE012.jpg

Customers Car being built... My dream car!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE008-1.jpg

Dale Earnhardt Jr's 1967 Camaro..(One of many)
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE010.jpg


Next, I will arrange the whole process into steps. I will also provide some good info to go along with each step that was made. A Bunch of stuff was measured/compared against the old & new products before installed. I will be adding every bit of info that was collected and the end results of the car now at the very end of this install.


Scot W.

[boosted6]

Okay guy's, The RTTH event is over and now I had time to put together some more pic's and info on the DSE build.


I guess I will start off with the front install. Overall all of these parts practically fell into place! None of it was a hassle to install nor did any of these parts give us a fit while installing. Everything has been Pre-measured to "Stock Specs" before they even go out the door so the fit is perfect.



Front Lower A-Arm installed
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE028.jpg


Front Upper A-Arm & 1/4" Camber shim prior to install. The 1/4" shim from the DSE "Track Shim Kit" is used as a baseline for allignment.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE026.jpg


Front Upper A-Arm installed showing the shim installed as well..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE031.jpg


Here are the A-Arms installed and completed..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE050.jpg


Here we will install the front DSE sway bar.

In these pictures you see the DSE relocation bracket for the sway bar. This bracket is there to move the bar forward a bit from the stock location. (Not to worry it actually has MORE clrearance now over the stock one!) Must be due to the design of the DSE sway bar it's self.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE060.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE059.jpg



Here is a few pictures of the DSE patented sway bar "Swivel Links"tm installed. These were designed to elliminate "Bind" and allow for the front sway bar to articulate better with the front suspension to keep all 4 tires planted to the ground. In these pictures you can also see the shocks installed.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE068.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE067.jpg



Here is the Sway bar mounted..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE070.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE071.jpg

[boosted6]

Here is a few pictures of the DSE front Frame Braces installed. There is still Plenty of room for front mount I/C pipes!
Note: These Braces come with the purchase of the front sway bar!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE074.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE075.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE076.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE077.jpg



The DSE "Drive Shaft Loop" installed..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE072.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE073.jpg

[boosted6]

Here I did a few measurements with the Front old springs compared to the new DSE springs.

Here are the results:


"Stock 24 yr old spring Height" = 14-1/8" Tall
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE017.jpg



DSE Front 2" drop spring Height = 12-1/16" Tall
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE018.jpg




NOTE: Although the DSE springs are considerably lower prior to going in the car. The ride height only dropped 7/8" inch!

OLD "Front" Ride Height = 25.5" (measuring from ground to fender lip).

New DSE "Front" Ride Height = 24 5/8" (Measuring from the exact same place as we did for the Old ride height)..




SW.

[boosted6]

Okay here we will touch on the REAR portion of the DSE suspension install.

First I would like to touch base on the info gathered on the REAR springs of the old set up and the new DSE set up. On our old set up we used the Hotchkis 1" drop springs in the car.

Hotchkis 1" drop spring Height = 13.25" Tall
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE022.jpg


DSE Rear 2" drop spring height = 12.25" Tall
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE021.jpg



Rear Ride height comparisons:

"Old" Rear ride height = 26.75" (with Hotchkis 1" drop springs)

New DSE Rear ride height = 26-1/8" ( measured after the drive around) and in the same spot as measured before.




Now we will move onto the Rear suspension install.


Here is a picture of an Adjustable Rear Lower control arm installed and an Adjustable Upper control arm installed. These DSE rear control arms are exceptionally different over the rest of them out there today and the reason for that is DSE's patented "Swivel Link" tm System. These control arms actually swivel on one end allowing your 4-link rear end to articulate fully and keep all 4 tires planted on the ground. This was a speacial interest to me when I seen the demostration done on my own car. Once the whole rear suspension was complete one of the guys took his hands and placed them on one of the rear brake drums and moved the whole axle Up & Down with ease, Then he had me do it and look at the swivel links to see them move. AMAZING.. and Not one bit of bind at all!!! DSE told me that when people box-in the stock lowers that it actually takes "Flex" away that was actually designed to be there in order for this 4-link suspension to work. It worked out fine in a drag application but not when you want to keep all tires planted to the ground.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE043.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE037.jpg



DSE Rear sway bar install pictures:


Here is a picture showing the "One" hole needed to be drilled to mount the bracket for the rear sway bar end links.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE035.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE036.jpg


Here is the end link bracket installed.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE046.jpg


This picture shows the rear sway bar axle mount bracket installed..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE045.jpg


Here is a picture of the rear sway bar end links that also incorportate the pattented "Swivel Link"tm System. These end links are "Beefy" to say the least and they elliminate Bind!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE056.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE053.jpg

[boosted6]

Here is a picture showing the adjustability holes in the sway bar it's self! These holes are for moving the end link forward or backwards to change the ride of the car. Front is more for street and the rear is for a more aggressive ride.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE047.jpg


Here is the bar completed/installed..
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSE044.jpg

[boosted6]

Just one day later we were testing the car at our anual RTTH (Run Through The Hills) event. This event consisted of a Drive through the Dragon (318 curves in 11 miles), Autocross, Dragrace and a Speed/Stop Challenge. We put this car to the test too, we didn't baby it and the car worked Flawless! It Hugged the pavement!!

Below are some pic's from the events.


In Burnout box with my wife as passenger.. This image shows the new "Stance" with the DSE suspension.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSC_0274.jpg


Speed/Stop Challenge.. This was done using the "Stock" brakes to get a baseline to start from.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/speedstopresults.jpg


Here are a few from the Autocross.. The GNS test car placed 30th out of 79 cars overall. Not too bad considering it was only my second time at a Autocross!!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/2010-09-19413.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSC_0239-1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/DSC_0240.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/DSE/2010-09-19414.jpg

[tones2SS]

Awesome thread. Great looking car.I like the white as well.:thumbsup:
Those dudes over at DSE are top-notch. They make some killer products that have been proven time and time again.:thumbsup:

[coolwelder62]

Great build tread thank's for sharing.Man DSE's stuff is so good. God I wish I could build parts that nice.

[Cuttykid442]

Gzzzzzz what can anybody say except great job on the write up Scot! The car is just awsome. 2 questions, 1st. How much does the complete front and or rear suspension cost from DSE? 2nd. Do you plan to sale the DSE suspension parts yourself?

[boosted6]

Gzzzzzz what can anybody say except great job on the write up Scot! The car is just awsome. 2 questions, 1st. How much does the complete front and or rear suspension cost from DSE? 2nd. Do you plan to sale the DSE suspension parts yourself? Kin,

We already carry the DSE suspension products. All the suspension products can be bought right from our site from this link or from DSE.

http://www.gnsperformance.com/products/suspen.html


Thanks for the compliment!

Scot W.

[instro84]

Scott, do you have the 1 1/8 rear sway bar in stock?

[boosted6]

Scott, do you have the 1 1/8 rear sway bar in stock? We don't have them in quite yet but we are accepting orders and untill everything arrives here our orders will be drop shipped straight from DSE and their shelves are stocked with them. Depending on the time of order usually your order will go out the same day if not the next.


Scot W.

[GHOSTDANCER]

Great write up :thumbsup: Thanks for sharing :thumbsup: Looking forward to the video :cheers:

[boosted6]

Great write up :thumbsup: Thanks for sharing :thumbsup: Looking forward to the video :cheers: Your welcome and here is the video!

This was at the RTTH6 event last weekend. We were supposed to get 6 passes on the Auto-x but due to time constraints we were cut back to only 3 passes. My first pass ended in a DNF because I went off route. This video is from my second pass where I ended up with a time of 1:17.. I wis somone would have gotten my last pass because I got a bit more aggressive on that pass and shaved the time down to a 1:15.2 ... I sure wish I would have got the last three passes in because I was getting more used to the course and I was shooting for a 1:12 - 1:13 time. Ohh well...

I was very happy how the car reacted and stayed planted to the ground. The parking lot it was in was actually on a downward grade and a pretty good one at that so it made some of those turns more hairy than others.

Click on video to play!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/th_AutoXCar8.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/xxxturbo6/?action=view&current=AutoXCar8.mp4)


Scot W.

[soundqdoug]

Sounds awesome! Like a snow blower!

[andrew5]

i love it!!:willy: