Anyone using Waterborne Paints on their cars?

[g356gear]

Many of the local body shops have now switched over to water based instead of solvent based paints. I am curious how many guys have used or are using water based paints on their cars.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I am old enough and have painting long enough to have gone through many paint systems and ideas.

When I started in the late 70s lacquer was it. Lacquer is a evaporation dry system. 40 coats of hand rubbed lacquer was the snaz! Looked fantastic, held up not so good. But that was OK because you could always blend repair it when it had a issue because it never really dried!

Then came Imron and Acrylic Enamels with hardeners in the early 80s. The hardener made the system a cross linking chemical dry. It was pretty cool to be able to cover a car in 3 coats. Pretty hard to sand and buff though, and if you cleared a metallic the mils got stupid thick with 3 coats of color and 3 coats of clear. If you kept the mills down with these materials they were maintenance free and held up OK

Then came Urethane clears to use over lacquer bases in the mid 80s. This was the paint companies first solution to repairing the first factory base clears. Talk about a explosion waiting for a place to happen. Put a cross link curing clear over a never drying lacquer that fumes come out of for ever, and the lacquers fumes continue to pull through the urethane reaching for the sky until they lifted the cross linked urethane clear off the car. Remember all those cars with the clear peeling? NOT a bright idea!

Then came the first base clears with basemakers. Basemaker base coats were thinner then acrylic enamel base colors and dried with a combination of evaporation and cross linking and were designed to be cleared. Lots of workability issues with those first base coats. Also lots of adhesion problems even for the factories, just find a 1986 Oldsmobile 98 that the paint did not come off in sheets! i was repairing late models then and was fixing peeling paint on one year old cars. And using stuff that would peel to repair it!

Through the 90s and into the new millennium the paint companies perfected the urethane base clears. It was early in the 90s I got a hold of the first product I really thought did not suck. And now they are pretty much perfect.

So what do they do..........take it all away and push everyone into latex! The paint company wants to GIVE me waterbase paint for my cars if I will become a "spokes shop" for their waterborne ****!

I have seen some gorgeous jobs done with it. Scott's Hot Rods has won the Grand National Roadster Show a couple years in a row with it. It sprays out and looks nice. Call me jaded, but my experience tells me just like you don't want the first year of any Corvette model change, you do not want to use new paint products until they have been around and have a track record.

No one can really say how these waterbourne materials will hold up 10 years from now, they have not been in the field long enough. And answer me this...........I am in Florida in 80% humidity. How does it ever dry 100% if the air is wet!

The tree huggers will take away our oil base materials sooner or later, and when I have to start using it we will change. But I will let the other test dummies use it for now and report back with durability reports.

[elitecustombody]

I totally agree with Frank, the tree huggers just won't stop.

Knowing my products and know what to expect from them,and most important, loving the results, I will be using solvent-based materials for as long as my distributor is able to get them,

This waterborne crap doesn't give me any assurance knowing how badly it has failed on most 90's Ford ,GM & Chrysler


Frank, from what my rep was telling me, it dries fairly quick, but you have to use special fans , I'm sure small shops in Florida that are not set up for waterborne mess will have to wait days for that junk to dry on rainy days .

OP, from what I heard from few different sources ,it supposed to cover alot faster,you need less materials,as far as durability, we'll just have to wait and see,cause it's only been pushed for little over a year, at least on the East Coast. If it were me, I'd stick with well proven solvent-based system and not have to worry about it.

[The WidowMaker]

im struggling with the decision myself since im supposed to paint the frame and suspension in the next couple weeks. my county and surrounding counties only sells water based and its a couple hour drive to get the old stuff. i did shoot some samples of some greys in my backyard and i acutally really liked spraying it. the color covered very well, and i couldnt get striping with my metallics no matter how hard i tried. it also flashed just as fast as the solvent based stuff although i was in direct sunlight. i didnt use any of the fans that are talked about for booth spraying.

also, theyve been shooting it worldwide for a while and im told all oems use it as well. i was also told dupont bought standox to get ahold of their technology and this was the product i sprayed.

and yes, there are a lot of "tolds" in my reply. id like to hear from some that have shot it and like it. if not, i may make a drive to get the stuff im most familiar with.

Tim

[Bad94]

I just finished up with a DuPont waterborne paint class, before i went i thought i would never spray it. Well after a few colors that i sprayed, I will be using it on my own project and few others.

My DuPont rep and i are going to be doing a custom two tone on my truck with waterborne this fall.


Alot of custom shops have been going to water, cause it lays out so much smoother then solvent, which gives a smooth look at the end.


I also know that some of the paint companys are have alot of problems with there water paint.

If you dont have the proper air flow to dry the base you will do nothing but hate it.


Here are a few notes i have from the class.

-Waterborne base has been out for 15 plus years
-About 50% of GM cars made today have waterborne
-Differnent degree controller for humidity conditions.
-Must have a gun dedicated for waterborne
-When dry the film thickness is less then solvent base, so you CANT hide bad bodywork like you can with solvent.(which means the bodymen have to step up there game too)
-Most colors cover in 2 coats

I have talked to my boss about switching to waterborne, and he left it up to me.

[Sartren]

Our shop has been using PPG Envirobase for little over a year now and I love it. There's no real learning curve, Flashes quick, and doesn't stink. You use the same clears that you were using over solvent base paint so the hold out should be the same.

[The WidowMaker]

i talked with a reputable paint manufacturer this morning, and his feeling is to stay away from the waterborne for backyard painters for a little while until there are more results. he said that although it may appear dry, you really dont ever know for sure since. plus, something like 1400 delams from one shop in san francisco in the last year. its a good product and has a lot of testing, but it may need the controlled atmosphere that we cant provide.

although it laid down and covered MUCH better for me, i think im going to shoot the ppg dbc.

Tim

[kennyd]

most dont understand that the only part of a waterborn paint system is the base coat ! everything else in the system is still solvent based !

primer = solvent and hardner , no water
sealer = solvent or hardner , no water

base coat is water based

clearcoat = solvent and hardner , no water


it is a nice system and has many advantages .

[elitecustombody]

most dont understand that the only part of a waterborn paint system is the base coat ! everything else in the system is still solvent based !

primer = solvent and hardner , no water
sealer = solvent or hardner , no water

base coat is water based

clearcoat = solvent and hardner , no water


it is a nice system and has many advantages .


I agree,I don't even know why tree huggers are trying to push this ,because most shops are still using solvent based clear, but I don't see many advantages with it other than better coverage, atleast with solvent based system if you have trapped solvents, you'll get a little die-back that can be buffed out, but if this waterborne mess did not release all the water, be prepared to strip everything down and start from scratch.

[Sartren]

I'd agree that it's too difficult to get good results in a home garage with waterborne, But in a production shop it's way way faster, and some of the new PPG clears don't require any flash time so you can cut your paint time greatly. After a year anna half we haven't had cars coming back cause the paint is falling off (not yet anyways).

[kennyd]

I'd agree that it's too difficult to get good results in a home garage with waterborne, But in a production shop it's way way faster, and some of the new PPG clears don't require any flash time so you can cut your paint time greatly. After a year anna half we haven't had cars coming back cause the paint is falling off (not yet anyways).

i have a " production shop " 11 man body shop , i have tried water and its not faster here . again the only part thats is any different is the base coat . our clear " standox brand " is a no fash time clear for a production shop .

[Sartren]

Well the big jobs may not be faster but a small 1 or 2 panel job is. It only takes a few mins to spray and dry those small jobs, as opposed to spraying a coat and waiting 5 min flash, and repeating till you have coverage.