TKO 600 Modifications

[Vegas69]

I'm not happy with my 1-2 shift. It's notchy as hell and killing my 0-60. Has anyone had there tko modified by Liberty gear or similar and been happy with the results? How about a different shifter? I'm sure the trans is set up correct.

[ProdigyCustoms]

A shifter helps a bit, you get ride of the plastic bushings in the original shift and get steel ones snugs it up a bit.

[GregWeld]

Todd.....

I have heard - (have no personal experience with this) - that shift quality will be really degraded if your tranny fluid is TOO SLIPPERY.... sounds crazy -- but some of these trannys have a syncro issue that causes shifting problems if you're using synthetics or the wrong fluid type etc.

I had quite the long talk with the Detroit locker people at a show they had a booth in -- about using synthetics with posi units... and they're saying DO NOT USE THEM IN THEIR REARENDS... just use 90wt.

So just thinking the old "keep it simple" when looking for an issue and start out with the little things first.

[Vegas69]

I'm running synchromesh as designed. I haven't heard many complaining about the 1-2 shift. The new engine redlines at 6800 and I found 2-3 shift to grind a few times at El Toro as well in the 0-100-0 They are known for high rpm shifting problems as well. Maybe I can just get the new guts and swap them out. A t56 magnum would be optimal but I'd have to slice up the tunnel and it just wouldn't be economical.

[GregWeld]

Shift lower - problem solved...:rofl:

[GregWeld]

Seems you're suffering from "mid plate" tolerance issues....

Call Wally --- he'll 'splain it to ya!

http://www.promotionpowertrain.com/

[Flash68]

I'm running synchromesh as designed. I haven't heard many complaining about the 1-2 shift. The new engine redlines at 6800 and I found 2-3 shift to grind a few times at El Toro as well in the 0-100-0 They are known for high rpm shifting problems as well. Maybe I can just get the new guts and swap them out. A t56 magnum would be optimal but I'd have to slice up the tunnel and it just wouldn't be economical.

Todd, you might be a good candidate for that new RS600 trans coming out this fall... assuming the 1-2 shift isn't still an issue. They say similarities to the TKO but zero cutting required for install. I think you saw that thread on team camaro.

[deuce_454]

ive had this issue in a fwd car with big power.. and it was solved by running AFT fluid in the manual tranny .. quick, crisp shifts.... and if a t5 can run on ATF then so can your tko

[67ragtp]

Maybe these guys can give you some info , there's a guy by the name of Grey, the company is the Driven Man. Ive talked to him a few times, nice guy. They have an option for the TKO-600 its called the extreme 600. Perhaps they adress some of the issues your having.

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/pop-600Extreme.html

Rich

[Vegas69]

I had a conversation with Brad at Liberty gear today. They will tear it apart and do all their magic to it for about $500. It's about half price if I buy the parts and do it myself. Different synchros, forks, polished shafts, etc. The real problem is it's a 6 week wait right now. I want to run at Buttonwillow on September 25th and don't want to be out of commission that long in the fall. More than likely a winter mod unless I decide to tackle the project. That or I'll just have Rodger at Ironworks cut up my baby to fit a 56 magnum. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Cut to cure!


:rofl: :rofl: :woot:

[strtlegal]

Thanks for the name. I'm having the same issues. I know the TKO is not supposed to be spun past 6,500 but man my motor loves that area. I've never been real happy with any of my shifting so I'm hoping these guys could fix me up. I wish I would have known a year back I would have gotten a T56. $500.00 is not bad at all though...Thanks again. if i get it pulled out and shipped to them i will give you a full report

[Vegas69]

I'd appreciate that. I haven't decided what I'm doing. I'll just keep driving until I do.

[strtlegal]

If we agree on Monday to some terms Ill try and start tearing into it again. It's been hot out so Im not in desperate need to have my car every weekend..Stay tuned..

Kind of sucks because I just put in a Mcleod twin disk thinking my OE clutch wasnt up to snuff. All in the name of hot rodding I guess..

Stay tuned

[mfain]

Todd,

When I ordered the TKO600 Extreme from Grey at American Powertrain, I called the Tremec Tech who does the modifications. Apparently there is a lot to do to make the 600 shift well above 6500 RPM -- polished syncros, hardened shift forks with brass pads, hand fitting of components, etc. Wish I could tell you how it works, but its still in the box. I do, however, have a new billet shifter from American Powertrain that you are welcome to try. I should be back in Vegas next week.

Pappy

[strtlegal]

Doesn't that shifter help with the 2-3 shift? People use that and a Twist Machine shifter and seam to like it but still not sure if really helps with banging gears..There is times when I shift near redline which is about 7100 and I forget that tran's is not meant for it and I will feal the teeth grab..

Jim at Hurst driveline said that Tremec might come out with Magnum style TKO if there is enough demand.

Does a std T56 have these issues?

[mfain]

The shifter might smooth things out a little by eliminatiing some slop (notice the adjustable throw stops), but I doubt it would do much to overcome the basic issues that are internal -- sycronizers and shift fork flex. I suspect that some (most) of the modifications to the TKO 600 Extreme are just "blueprinting" and polishing, much like you do to the internals of a good rear end. I bought the transmission for the hardened shafts and upgraded input shaft for the extra torque capacity. I opted for the 600 vice a T-56 to get the .82 fifth gear for road racing. I didn't want or need the deep ratio drops of the T56's 5th and 6th gears.

Pappy

[Vegas69]

Thanks for the offer Pappy. The 1-2 shift is my biggest gripe. It's impossible to shift it quick. The 2-3 grind above 6500 ain't to much fun either but I don't really give a **** until it breaks. :rofl: As long as it goes in... To be honest I only shift above 6500 when I'm racing and have no idea what rpm I'm running. Normal shifts are in the 6200-6500 range. $500 seems reasonable if the results are worth the trouble and funds.

[The WidowMaker]

$250 sounds damn reasonable for just the parts since mine is still out, but does it sound like a complicated job that they should be doing?

[Vegas69]

I haven't even looked into the complexity of the change. I don't know if any press work or special tools are needed.

[Payton King]

Hope you are doing well. If I am not mistaken DSE is running a TKO and they put a cooler on it to help the shifts. I asked Kyle about it and he said when the fluid got hot it would not shift well. I believe it cured his problem. May be worth a phone call.

[DOOM]

I had a conversation with Brad at Liberty gear today. They will tear it apart and do all their magic to it for about $500. It's about half price if I buy the parts and do it myself. Different synchros, forks, polished shafts, etc. The real problem is it's a 6 week wait right now. I want to run at Buttonwillow on September 25th and don't want to be out of commission that long in the fall. More than likely a winter mod unless I decide to tackle the project. That or I'll just have Rodger at Ironworks cut up my baby to fit a 56 magnum. :lol:

Todd... I talked to Richard Johnson from American Powertrain at GOODGUYS this weekend.. The new version of the T-56 does not need any tunnel mods .But you have the lower sub bushing mounts correct????

[Vegas69]

Hey Payton, I'm doing great. How are you man? It shifts the same cold and hot.

Mario, I do have the 1/2 height body bushings. The tunnel would need surgery. It'll have to work for now, I just want to enjoy the car as much as possible. Versus working on it. I'm a twice baked potato.:unibrow:

[GregWeld]

If you want a good laugh -- try driving my new 32 Ford -- T56 --- and I think the rear gears are 3:08s.... with tall tires.... LOL

6th is about 90 @ 1800 rpm

Dropped it at Steves Auto Restoration today -- we'll be doing a few "mods"....:unibrow:

[strtlegal]

A little update Todd, I put in a Pro5.0 shifter a month ago and while I really liked it I still wasnt happy, so I'm dealing with AMP performance which is dealing with Liberty gear..Im having it D-ringed and blocked...No more synchro's. He said they sound a little more noisy durings shifts but you can beat the living crap out of them..Since AMP stocks most of the parts my down time will be less then 4 weeks..Still sucks but Im tired of dealing with it and dont want a whole new trans and loose my behind on selling this one...

I am having issues with my RAM hydro bearing, the last one I put lasted me a week..so that will be another issue to address..I guess I should ask what bearing are you running?

[Vegas69]

Cool Chuck, let me know how it works out. I'm running a mechanical clutch with some type of standard throwout bearing. I think it's the original bearing that came with the Classic Chevy kit. Even with my McLeod twin disc RXT, the pedal pressure is reasonable.

[strtlegal]

Hmm...Jim at Hurst think's I might have better luck with a Mcloed bearing, but Im determined to use this one since its so simple...

Anyways, Ill keep you posted!

[The WidowMaker]

are you guys with issues running an aluminum or steel flywheel? my understanding is that the syncros may not being doing enough during the 1-2 shift. since an aluminum fly slows down much quicker, im wondering if it would help.

i tried calling liberty last week and didnt get a call back. i figure i'll wait a few more months to decide what i want to do. its hard to spend the money without ever driving it, but i dont want to pull the tranny once its together. plus, libertys prices have gone up a bunch in the past couple years and will only go up from here.

[Vegas69]

I don't want anything to do with an aluminum flywheel. I'm picky but the more I talk to people the more I hear the same complaint.

[The WidowMaker]

anybody tried the newer tremec shifter? i picked one up from kiesler, and gene said he had pretty positive results so far. $43 shipped to my door. i'll either wait for the magnum tko or see what results you guys get from the liberty fix before i make my final decision.

also todd, without going through your frigging 10,001 pages, what flywheel did you end up with. and are you running the rst or the rxt?

Tim

[The WidowMaker]

for those that find this thread with a search, i called liberty today and here is what i found out;

first, you can buy their upgraded tko600 for 2375+ shipping, or you can pay $500 to have yours upgraded plus shipping both ways. he said they obviously make money on the tko purchase, so the profit offsets the cost of the upgrades if you buy from them. you can also pull yours apart and ship the pieces back, and have everything done in their 2375 package (minus the front bearing) for $68. thats right, $68. you have to ship your case to have the front bearing done, and thats around $125 by itself.

so, now the problems and what youre paying to have fixed. first, he said that the linkage has a detent that keeps the 2nd gear in place and keeps it from moving too far with the 2-3 shift. the speed of the shift, plus the direction the gear is moving in relation to the cars movement builds up some momentum that the stock (weak) spring and the shallow detent cant overcome. the fix is $13. 10 for the rail mod and 3 for the new spring.

second, the shift forks ends are tapered too much and need to be built up. they weld to the end and profile it correctly. fix is $25 but you wont get your shift fork back. they have a box of premodded forks and you get one out of the box whether yours was new or old.

third, gear cones. there isnt enough friction to enable the syncros to do their job fast enough. they "scuff" up the surface which in turn creates more friction. fix, 10 for ea, 2,3,4. they also have another option which places cf on the friction surface and costs $50 per gear, but the benefits arent much improved over the scuff.

you can also have your gears polished. i didnt get a price, but its a $250 option on their 2375 trans. doesnt help with the shift, but will get you a free 5-10 hp, cooler running temp and a little more mpg.

i asked about doing it myself, and was told that if you feel comfortable around engines, you can diy. there are some bearings that need to be packed, but otherwise its just torque specs and a reassembly diagram.

i suggest you guys call and listen to what they have to say. my explanations may be off since im new to all this and it was a lot to absorb. but for the money i think its a no brainer.

[JustinB]

Good info Tim. I am giving these guys a call tomorrow.

[Flash68]

So Todd.... what are you thinking of doing with your TKO now?

I totally meant to ask you in Pahrump.. how did it shift at high rpm there?

[Vegas69]

I'm going to have mine modified eventually. I just haven't talked my lazy ass into pulling it out. I have less problems with high rpm shifts than a do with a notchy 1-2 shift or 3-2.

[The WidowMaker]

flash, i sent you a pm back but i figured i would post part of it. liberty changed the price on their site to 2499 for the mods. this includes the upgraded 2-3-4 carbon fiber facing which was a 50ea upgrade over the 2375 price. i havent called them, but i dont see why they wouldnt have the old pricing for the original package.

and todd, just get it done so we have a reliable guinea pig.:thumbsup:

Tim

[Vegas69]

I'm ready for someone else to be the guinea pig around here..:unibrow:

[Flash68]

Hang in there boys... I just might be the guinea pig on this one. I'll know for sure very soon.

[strtlegal]

Im still waiting..lol Lets just say if your going to send it to Liberty plan on having your car down for awhile...I think I sent the gears back to them the second week of October...

We did however forgot to send out second gear. That was flown out last week so hopefully I will have a fully non synchro'd noisy shifting trans in my car very soon...

[Flash68]

flash, i sent you a pm back but i figured i would post part of it. liberty changed the price on their site to 2499 for the mods. this includes the upgraded 2-3-4 carbon fiber facing which was a 50ea upgrade over the 2375 price. i havent called them, but i dont see why they wouldnt have the old pricing for the original package.

and todd, just get it done so we have a reliable guinea pig.:thumbsup:

Tim

Tim--

Actually, on the front page of their site they do list the following:

--------------------------------
UPGRADED-SYNCHRONIZED TREMEC TKO600 $2375.00
INCLUDES
Bronze Shift Fork Pads
Surface Enhancement* Processed Hubs & Sliders
Internal Shift Linkage Upgrade
Liberty's Exclusive Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support **
Carbon Fiber Blocking Rings 2nd, 3rd & 4th Gear

**Liberty's Exclusive Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support eliminates oil leakage from the front cap and more importantly it supports the front cluster bearing preventing the cluster shaft from improper movement. Since the stock cap is only held in place by the o-ring, it can allow the cluster shaft to move and alter shimming. This movement decreases the overall integrity of the transmission. Liberty's Exclusive Threaded Front Cluster Bearing Support corrects all of the problems associated with the stock cap.

------------------------------

This is what I am thinking of trying out.

[Flash68]

Im still waiting..lol Lets just say if your going to send it to Liberty plan on having your car down for awhile...I think I sent the gears back to them the second week of October...

We did however forgot to send out second gear. That was flown out last week so hopefully I will have a fully non synchro'd noisy shifting trans in my car very soon...

Chuck -- good to know -- what upgrades did you get?

[strtlegal]

I paid for face plating and carbon fiber blockers.


I know they also replace a first gear cluster set since its prone to failure...

I was going to just do the pro shifting but my trans guy said just do the face plated gear, its a little more money but they tend to last longer...He upgrades about two a year but highly recommends just doing it this way the first time..he also said its a little noisy much like an old Muncie during shifting. The trans is supposed to grab like a raped ape in the higher rpms but it will still be quiet while in gear.

I guess removing the stock synchros allows all of this to happen...

I did have the guys at AMP performance do this work for me..They had a gear set that they sent to Liberty so when it comes in they can drop it in my trans and send off my stock ones. This can help you guys that dont want to wait like me, if you guys chose this route.

They are a Tremec dealer that works hand in hand with Liberty..I really can not complain about the price...

[Vegas69]

I called Amp and they said you are pro shifting your trans so you better give them a call Chuck. :unibrow: They don't have any gear sets to swap out with me. Looks like a long wait with Liberty or just buying parts or a whole tranny.

[Vegas69]

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Face plated, not meant for street.

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^ EPIC FAIL!! :rofl:

[Vegas69]

Not as epic as putting a stock turd TKO600 in a 32. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Not as epic as putting a stock turd TKO600 in a 32. :lol:

Ya got me there!
:cheers: :woot:

[strtlegal]

You know more about my trans then I do...will call tomorrow. I guess either way it will run mo beta..

[Vegas69]

Faceplating is for the track only.

[The WidowMaker]

Actually, on the front page of their site they do list the following:



id call and get in on that. i think thats an error. it should say surfance enhanced, not cf. i think the price on the second page is correct for the cf. if not, that is a really good deal since its only 200 more than stock and WAY more upgraded.

[Flash68]

Faceplating is for the track only.

I've thought this as well and have never seen or heard of it being recommended for a street car.

id call and get in on that. i think thats an error. it should say surfance enhanced, not cf. i think the price on the second page is correct for the cf. if not, that is a really good deal since its only 200 more than stock and WAY more upgraded.

I'll get clarification on this tmrw!

Standard TKO = $2200
new RS 600 = $2200 (but doesn't ship til Feb or later)
Liberty upgraded/synchro'd TKO = $2375

Hmmm.....

[67ragtp]

After some long discussions with Paul at Liberty, I sent my 600 to them. It was a brand new unit never run, so magnifluxing was not necessary. For you guys who have thrashed the box, you may want to consider the small cost of magging as insurance. Any way face plating was not an option for street use and just want the box to shift smoother and better at higher rpm since the ls7 can rev a bit. Heres what you can expect to spend if you send them your box, got mine back mid October.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/ragtp/Picture056.jpg

[strtlegal]

Okay so I just got off the phone with them. He was still calling it face plating, even though its technically pro shifting. He say's their site can be confusing..

In a nut shell though they take .20 thousands off the face of the gears to shift smoother. All of the synchros are removed except 1st gear and the rest are dog ringed.

They also heat treated the gears which takes two weeks alone, in addition to chyron'g them.

I think Libert's site reffering to "Face Plating" not recommended for the street is a clutchless setup.

So thanks guys for asking now I think I'm unserstanding the process more and more. I kind of need to see these things before giving first hand knowledge..

[NvrDun71]

How is Liberty selling upgraded units for $2375? When a new TKO 600 is $2195? Are they doing the same $500 worth of upgrades they would to a trans you would send them direct for $175? Something doesnt add up......

[The WidowMaker]

How is Liberty selling upgraded units for $2375? When a new TKO 600 is $2195? Are they doing the same $500 worth of upgrades they would to a trans you would send them direct for $175? Something doesnt add up......

reference my post above. they are doing everything because there is a lot of profit in these things, and they use that profit to help offset the cost of the upgrades if you buy from them. i talked to a dealer and i was told they used to get the 600 for about 1100. that was a few price increases back though.

[The WidowMaker]

the $68 price included the first 4 line items, although i was told that the 4th line would be an "ea" price for 2-3-4th making that line $30.

the fifth line cannot be done without sending your case to them.

id like to hear what lines 6-8 do.

still only $218 ($68 that i posted (1-4) plus lines 6-8) if you do it all yourself and you dont include the front bearing revision.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/ragtp/Picture056.jpg

[NvrDun71]

Yreference my post above. they are doing everything because there is a lot of profit in these things, and they use that profit to help offset the cost of the upgrades if you buy from them. i talked to a dealer and i was told they used to get the 600 for about 1100. that was a few price increases back though.

Interesting........ I know nobody will sell one for less than retail unless you are a dealer or have an inside connection of sorts. Seems like this would be frowned upon by other Tremec dealers? Maybe not...

[The WidowMaker]

Seems like this would be frowned upon by other Tremec dealers? Maybe not..

i dont see why it would. they arent selling for less than the min price, they are just giving you an incentive to buy from them. no different than guys throwing in free shipping.

[Flash68]

No one is selling a "stock" TKO 600 for less than the 2195 that I can find.

If they want to "discount" their upgrades, as Tim is saying, seems like a great way to move some product and they still make money. Don't know why that would ruffle any feathers...


Anyway.... I talked to Paul @ Liberty twice today. Very nice guy.

I inquired specifically about the $2375 upgraded/synchronized TKO 600.

Paul says the shifting is good up to around 6800 rpm they have found.

He also concurred that face-plating is not for street cars.

The surface enhancement procedure involves a shot-peening process which makes it slide easier and it reduces/minimizes wear for increased longevity.

He also talked at length about the carbon fiber blocking rings but I can't really regurgitate much from all that ... I got overwhelmed and stopped taking some notes. :lol:

Bottom line is it seems to be a very nice upgrade over a stock TKO 600 for not much more money.

I am gonna think on it a bit more and inspect my Muncie this week when we pull it out and make a final decision. But if I order one before Xmas, this should arrive by 1st/2nd week of January.

[Vegas69]

I'm leaning towards ordering the parts and installing them meeeself.

[The WidowMaker]

what was the deal with the two prices. both list the same parts, one for ~150 more than the other. was it a typo as suspected?

I'm leaning towards ordering the parts and installing them meeeself.

guinea pig.... cough.... guinea pig. just do it!

[Flash68]

I'm leaning towards ordering the parts and installing them meeeself.

Can you get that all done by Jan 15? :cool:

what was the deal with the two prices. both list the same parts, one for ~150 more than the other. was it a typo as suspected?



Not sure on that -- I just references the price and upgrades listed on the homepage and he said "oh ok." :_paranoid

[NvrDun71]

i dont see why it would. they arent selling for less than the min price, they are just giving you an incentive to buy from them. no different than guys throwing in free shipping.

I hear ya, sounds like a pretty damn good deal. Wish I would have known that they offered this before I bought my trans, lol. Or at worst I may send them my trans for some tweaks if it doesn't sell..... looking forward to more feedback on this

[Vegas69]

Ha Ha guys... I'll be lucky to have my car back on all fours by Jan 15. I need a mechanic on staff.:rofl:

[The WidowMaker]

Wish I would have known that they offered this before I bought my trans, lol. Or at worst I may send them my trans for some tweaks if it doesn't sell.....

me too. the price is too cheap not to do it from the start. i wish i would have known. i also thought about the rs600 like you as well since im at a point to make a change, but id like a few years of testing before i dropped it in.

when i made my decision the magnum didnt exist and the 56 didnt make sense with my gear and tire. i would have changed the gear and gone with a magnum if i was starting from scratch.

[Flash68]

Well Todd looks like you and Pappy and Chuck will have to be the guinea pigs here for the rest of us... I'm out! Looks like we're gonna throw the Muncie back in mine for RTTC. We've got bigger things to address with my car it appears.

I guess that will give me time to assess this option as well as give more time for the RS600 to hit the streets this coming year.

[Ron in SoCal]

^ Dave - I'd agree w waiting to see how the RS600 perfroms before plunking down that kinda coin. What issue came up with the car?

[GregWeld]

Ha Ha guys...I need a mechanic on staff.:rofl:

Ask Kelli if you can borrow hers! :unibrow:

[NAPA 68]

Has anyone noticed an inprovement with a change in fluids such as ATF? Futhermore, have any of you tried or know of experience with the Kiesler Road and Track T56? Sorry if I misdirected the thread.

Tim

[strtlegal]

I've messed with a few, Redline fluid made it worse. The GM Synchro mesh is hard to beat. I've heard the DSE guys have run an oil cooler on there trans and it helped but my shifting issue is all the time. Well hopefully not for long

[Vegas69]

My fingers are itching to make that call to order a brand new unit....:unibrow: He said 4-6 weeks to upgrade mine plug shipping time. The way I see it, I'll miss RTTC if I go this route. He said it's really not a job I should do.

[Flash68]

Todd - do it for yourself. Do it for the rest of us. Do it for all of mankind. :D

[strtlegal]

and do it all with in a week...:lol:

[67ragtp]

My fingers are itching to make that call to order a brand new unit....:unibrow: He said 4-6 weeks to upgrade mine plug shipping time. The way I see it, I'll miss RTTC if I go this route. He said it's really not a job I should do.

With regards to not doing it yourself, he is right. Not doubting Todds mechanical abilities at all. They just have all the proper tooling, Bearing presses, fixtures etc., and they know the design faults, plus there ability to masage slider hubs and syncro sliders/gear cones from a custom fit standpoint. I used to build manual gear boxes and sell them for extra cash amazing how many tools we machined just to press in slip yoke bearings and seals, yes you could get the BFH out but do you really want to do it that way.

Beat it up at RTTC then send it out.

Rich

[Vegas69]

I'm on the fence between the 56 mag and the Liberty 600. I really don't like the low first gear of the 600 either. I will have to chop up my tunnel, shorten the driveshaft, and replace the bellhousing to go magnum however. The 600 is more economical but I want to do this once.:rolleyes:

[Flash68]

Todd - what are your thoughts on the RS600? I see it is now shipping in January per a Keisler email I received today.

What rear gear you running again... 3.73?

[Vegas69]

I really don't know much about it. I don't like to be the guinea pig for a manufacturer, I can guarantee you that.:unibrow:

[The WidowMaker]

With regards to not doing it yourself, he is right. Not doubting Todds mechanical abilities at all. They just have all the proper tooling, Bearing presses, fixtures etc., and they know the design faults, plus there ability to masage slider hubs and syncro sliders/gear cones from a custom fit standpoint. I used to build manual gear boxes and sell them for extra cash amazing how many tools we machined just to press in slip yoke bearings and seals, yes you could get the BFH out but do you really want to do it that way.



thats what i find odd. when i talked with them he told me all i needed was a set of tools (nothing special required) and that it was as easy as putting a bottom end of a motor together. he said that the assembly diagrams are easy to get and that if i hit a snag i could call and they would walk me through it. nothing was said of pressing on or off any parts. rather it was a bolt in deal???? ive never opened one up though.

as far as the cones, i dont think they are doing anything but scuffing or adding the CF. i would hope that the tolerances are such that you could swap parts without too much regard for the "custom fit" you spoke of. again, im no expert.

[Vegas69]

Brad mentioned needing to shim some gears and shift forks I assume. I can see needing the proper tools and shims to get the job done right. I'm sure there are tricks to the trade that I certainly don't kinow. I have enough going on as it is, I'll let someone else that has the experience mess with it. If it was as simple as swapping parts I'd tackle it.

I did hear some noise about Tremec updating the 600 with more modern synchros,etc as we speak. I'm not going to say who but it was a reliable source.

[The WidowMaker]

paul was my contact there, and i never spoke with brad. i liked paul because he seemed really honest, took the time to explain everything and acutally tried to somewhat talk me out of spending the extra money on the CF cones. you dont find many people trying to downsell. i guess i need to give them another call and figure it out.

i see a few options for me; try to sell for as much as possible since its BRAND NEW and get one from liberty, send this one to liberty, get the parts from liberty and attempt to assemble myself or just drive it and see how good or bad it really is. the first two options are pretty dang close in price to each other, and thats if i get what i think i can for the tranny. as soon as i drive it one mile its going to lose a lot of value.

btw, the front page was a typo and has been changed back to 2499 instead of 2375. see what happens when i open my mouth on these forums. :_paranoid

[Flash68]

I really don't know much about it. I don't like to be the guinea pig for a manufacturer, I can guarantee you that.:unibrow:

I hear that brother... nor a builder/installer for that matter! :thumbsup:

paul was my contact there, and i never spoke with brad. i liked paul because he seemed really honest, took the time to explain everything and acutally tried to somewhat talk me out of spending the extra money on the CF cones. you dont find many people trying to downsell. i guess i need to give them another call and figure it out.

i see a few options for me; try to sell for as much as possible since its BRAND NEW and get one from liberty, send this one to liberty, get the parts from liberty and attempt to assemble myself or just drive it and see how good or bad it really is. the first two options are pretty dang close in price to each other, and thats if i get what i think i can for the tranny. as soon as i drive it one mile its going to lose a lot of value.

btw, the front page was a typo and has been changed back to 2499 instead of 2375. see what happens when i open my mouth on these forums. :_paranoid

My same assessment of Paul after speaking with him. I think I might have also helped get that homepage price "increased". :_paranoid

[preston]

I've been thinking about upgrading my TKO600 as well, not so much for shift quality as strength. Both American Powertrain and Modular Mustang Racing sell a box they call good for ~900 hp, but from what I can tell besides some similar mods to what liberty is doing they are mostly just cryo and rem finishing the gears and claiming that strength upgrade. I also recently called LIberty, and the guy there said that cryo/rem is good for maybe an extra 100 hp ? but that there is no standard for "rating" a transmission by hp or lb/ft level (obviously you would need to know the weight and gearing and tire of the car to even begin to make this claim). So anyway I've been considering that since I have broken the 3rd gear cluster before.

But one thing I don't hear anyone mention about the TKO is the damn noise. My box sounds like a coffe can full of rocks anytime you "lug" it below 2500 rpms, which if you think about it, is like 50% of your street driving. Its very annoying. And every tremec I've had has done this behind multiple engines, some worse than others. Even though I could have LIberty or someone else upgrade this tko, I've been thinking very seriuosly about dropping the big bucks on a T56 magnum even though I have no use for the extra weight or gear. But I just feel like the T56 is a much more OEM style transmission with bigger and better designed internals.

Just curious if anyone else complains about the noise their tko makes ?

[strtlegal]

I put in a new set of gears at the same time I put in my 4 link, it howled like crazy. changed out the gears several times, then realized my driveshaft was to long. I shortened it up a tad and it got super quiet. I still have the 4th gear noise you talk about but was still figuring I needed to play with the rear end a little bit..But if this is a common noise then yes mine has it.

[strtlegal]

Update. Got my trans back today. I need to add some undercoating to the car so if I can get that done I will stab in the trans this weekend..

Then I will let you know how it shifts around 7k...Let see if my RAM bearing can stop leaking...Wish me luck!

[BTTBSS]

I have a TKO-600 behind a 383 LT1. The internal rail type shifter is spring loaded and I have found that if you simply pull straight back with your finger tips on the 1-2 shift it goes fine. Same on the 2-3 shift, if you try to grip the ball and guide the shift it will miss. If you just palm it forward it never misses third gear. This method was suggested by Grant R. at Kiesler.

[NAPA 68]

Just curious if anyone else complains about the noise their tko makes ?

Oh yeah! My 67 Nova has quite a cam in it and thus.......same thing.

[NvrDun71]

Update. Got my trans back today. I need to add some undercoating to the car so if I can get that done I will stab in the trans this weekend..

Then I will let you know how it shifts around 7k...Let see if my RAM bearing can stop leaking...Wish me luck!

How's it goin Chuck? You Prowlin the streets again with the new trans yet?

[Vegas69]

Ya Chuck, lets do this man. I'm sick of being the whipping post around this joint. :unibrow:

[KEISLER]

I've been thinking about upgrading my TKO600 as well, not so much for shift quality as strength. Both American Powertrain and Modular Mustang Racing sell a box they call good for ~900 hp, but from what I can tell besides some similar mods to what liberty is doing they are mostly just cryo and rem finishing the gears and claiming that strength upgrade. I also recently called LIberty, and the guy there said that cryo/rem is good for maybe an extra 100 hp ? but that there is no standard for "rating" a transmission by hp or lb/ft level (obviously you would need to know the weight and gearing and tire of the car to even begin to make this claim). So anyway I've been considering that since I have broken the 3rd gear cluster before.

But one thing I don't hear anyone mention about the TKO is the damn noise. My box sounds like a coffe can full of rocks anytime you "lug" it below 2500 rpms, which if you think about it, is like 50% of your street driving. Its very annoying. And every tremec I've had has done this behind multiple engines, some worse than others. Even though I could have LIberty or someone else upgrade this tko, I've been thinking very seriuosly about dropping the big bucks on a T56 magnum even though I have no use for the extra weight or gear. But I just feel like the T56 is a much more OEM style transmission with bigger and better designed internals.

Just curious if anyone else complains about the noise their tko makes ?

Liberty's number are going to be realistic because they've been doing racing gear boxes for a lot of years. AP has only been in business since around 2005 when I got them started by providing them a distributorship along with my Jag V12 performance line of product to sell. They are not racing people. They are sales people - nothing wrong with that if you get the truth!

The noise you are talking about is common with TKO. There are typically two types of gravelly noise - low rpm lugging where the TKO sounds like a school bus taking off, and a noise that is especially apparent in neutral with the clutch pedal not depressed. The latter is usually due to an incorrect preload of the taper roller bearings on the mainshaft and/or countershaft. There are other causes for noise, but these are the most common in the TKO.

Preston, if you are looking for the shift quality of the T56 Magnum, you should check out our KEISLER Rallye Sport RS 5-speed here (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=29330).

[KEISLER]

We don't advertise this, but we do offer the following upgrade services for TKO:

Modifications of Synchro for factory brass blocker ring - $200, and FREE to purchasers of our Tremec PF kits if you mention Lateral-G

Aftermarket blocker rings for 1-4 - brass with friction liner

Brass Fork Pads for 1-4

Proshifter with internal stops, tunable spring return bias (preset) - included with purchase of our Tremec PF kits

All of these things help the TKO, but are far from making the TKO a truly great shifting transmission for motorsports applications. The TKO was designed from the tremec mexico light truck/van transmissions, just for aftermarket. Trucks and vans have a very different requirement.

[strtlegal]

If I could stop screwing around with other things then yes...Now that i have the trans out I rewiered the car, now I've been reading your guys posts about what to do for a radio..hahaha

So no I have not tossed it back in there...I guess i should just to get it over with.

[FETorino]

This was a good thread on addressing the shifting issues of the TKO600. Problem is the two members who had their TKOs modded never posted driving impressions.

Everyone says the T56 is a better shifting transmission. It is also much heavier and I'm not convince I need 6 gear behind a big torque big block.

I have a quicktime bell and dual Mcleod clutch set up for a TKO. I'm either buying a Liberty modified TKO600RR or selling the parts I ahve and just doing a T56.

Did the Liberty mods fix the shifting issues?
Does it shift as well as the T56?
Is the T56 shifting worth the extra weight, money and tunnel mods?

[preston]

I went from an unmodified TKO600 to a Rockland blueprinted T56. Now, I never had any problems shifting my TKO600 up to 6300 rpms behind 700rwhp, so maybe I"m not hte best to comment.

HOwever, I actually feel like my TKO shifted better overall than my T56 which I realize is backwards from everyone else, but the T56 just feels heavier and notchier, and its breaking in now but 2nd gear took a good tug to make sure you got it in.

I'm not talking some huge difference here, just one datapoint that the shift quality between the two is mostly hype. Probably has more to do with how good your clutch release is than the trans.

Adding a T56 was a good 20 lbs plus I went from an alum bellhousing (unsafe) to a qucktime, which I had trimmed and cleaned up but still added 10 lbs.

I would be more worried about s trength behind your big block than shift quality. I broke a TKO600 3rd gear one time so it can happen. Haven't ran the T56 in the same conditions yet but I doubt it wil break. The TKO broke road racing on a hot day before I had a cooler, so that may have been a factor as well. 3rd gear is known as the weak spot on these.

[hulsund]

I went from an unmodified TKO600 to a Rockland blueprinted T56. Now, I never had any problems shifting my TKO600 up to 6300 rpms behind 700rwhp, so maybe I"m not hte best to comment.

HOwever, I actually feel like my TKO shifted better overall than my T56 which I realize is backwards from everyone else, but the T56 just feels heavier and notchier, and its breaking in now but 2nd gear took a good tug to make sure you got it in.

I'm not talking some huge difference here, just one datapoint that the shift quality between the two is mostly hype. Probably has more to do with how good your clutch release is than the trans.

Adding a T56 was a good 20 lbs plus I went from an alum bellhousing (unsafe) to a qucktime, which I had trimmed and cleaned up but still added 10 lbs.

I would be more worried about s trength behind your big block than shift quality. I broke a TKO600 3rd gear one time so it can happen. Haven't ran the T56 in the same conditions yet but I doubt it wil break. The TKO broke road racing on a hot day before I had a cooler, so that may have been a factor as well. 3rd gear is known as the weak spot on these.

Hey i have just mounted an tko 600 extreme from american powertrain in my 69 camaro and that i can recomended . this manuel gears is very good :) :) :)

[Vegas69]

How many miles do you have on it and have you shifted it North of 6500 rpm?

[hulsund]

How many miles do you have on it and have you shifted it North of 6500 rpm?

Hello i havent so many miles on it yet ,becouse i just install it but the trans works very nice no scratching or noise from the trans .i havent go higer or 5000 rpm on it ,but i think there no problems with high rpm shift.:yes: :yes:

[Flash68]

Hello i havent so many miles on it yet ,becouse i just install it but the trans works very nice no scratching or noise from the trans .i havent go higer or 5000 rpm on it ,but i think there no problems with high rpm shift.:yes: :yes:

Rev it to 7000 a few times and get back to us.

[hulsund]

Rev it to 7000 a few times and get back to us.

He he yes but most wait, break inn first:D :D :D