Bought a 2010 Vette Grand Sport LS3 - E85 upgrades?

[byndbad914]

I believe converting the car to run on E85 voids the warranty, but here in CO it is pretty plentiful and I have to think the car could be tuned with some more timing, etc to run E85 with the high compression the car has and make more power with a simple fuel swap.

that said I have a hard time after looking around the net determining if I would actually need to upgrade the injectors, etc etc. I don't want to swap the cam yet or anything and would really like to do a minimal change that can be easily changed back should I have an issue I want fixed under warranty.

It is hard to say if a fuel swap will make any real difference since the high altitude here tends to accept higher compression ratios better, but with 91 octane premium I am thinking that the computer may have to pull timing, etc when I am really on it to not ping, etc.

So anybody know if an E85 switch is simple, if the injectors will handle it assuming no other changes beyond a tune for E85, and what tuning software items are out there to use with the swap?

I know that when I lived in SoCal and built the engine in my race car in my avatar I dyno'd it on a near perfect sea level day and made just under 500HP before the 93 octane pump gas began to detonate at 34deg timing on a 10.5:1 combo with a big cam that would have bled cylinder pressure. It made 525HP after swapping over to race gas and bumping timing just two more degrees, so I certainly can see that there may be some free HP to get from better fuel with the high compression of the the LS3.

[AM.MSCL]

Check out Corvette forum and do a search over there for E85.
Also Katech Engineering has done several E85 conversion on Z06's that you might be interested in reading about.
Ray

[XcYZ]

I'm not sure which ECM the LS3 is using, but EFI Live has a new custom OS for the E38 that allows you to run secondary tables (for E85 or NOS or whatever). You install a simple switch to toggle between the tables - it's based on flex fuel cals except you manually control the switch between tables (tunes).

I don't think you're going to see a big difference in performance. I think you need to be at 12:1 compression before you'd see the benefits of 85% alcohol. Plus, being at 5,000 elevation, I don't think detonation is going to be a big concern.

Out of curiousity, how much timing does the factory tune give the LS3?

If you're going to open up the ECM, you're going to void the warranty. With that being the case, I'd just have the car tuned locally. A friend just put headers, full exhaust (no cats), and a mail order tune in his LS3 C6 and it ran 119mph in the quarter. I thought that was great for so little work to the car.

[Jay Hilliard]

They are nice cars..The grand sports are a good buy for the money. Did you get the dry sump upgrade on the LS3?

[byndbad914]

thanks for the inputs guys!

Ray - I will check out the Katech stuff.

Scott - I dunno diddly-squat about the LS3 ECM... I basically saw the car and decided I needed it more than a tow vehicle :lol: I planned to call my old boss/still friend this weekend that owns a performance shop in SoCal and see if he knows much about the ECM yet. Issue is he is in CA and I am still getting attuned to everything here in CO so not totally sure where to look for local tuning.

As for timing, my concern is that if the engine senses detonation it will just pull timing and I have no idea if that is the case. The altitude does help with reducing the detonation, but the fuel is also lower octane here to balance that out, so that is why I am questioning if there may be an advantage to E85... but I tend to agree, I may see nothing significant.

I have been getting similar feedback too regarding simple exh changes and tunes making big differences, especially if the cam is swapped for a bit larger but still streetable one.

Jay - yes it is the dry sump that comes with the 6spds - that was a must have. I have always ran dry sumps on any race car so finding out the GS came with that was quite a nice surprise.

[byndbad914]

pics of the car - bit of a proud papa mentality I know but I haven't been this happy with a factory built anything, my 04 Lightning maybe, it was definitely fun, but this thing is too damn fun to drive. I have no idea how I will keep the mileage down on it like I intended to (want to keep it as a collector car too). I drive a Volvo wagon to work that I paid $800 for, but the AC isn't working and any excuse to drive the Vette will do...

[rwhite692]

Beautiful car, best of luck with it.

Must be hard to jump in that $800 Volvo and leave the vette home each day!

[BBC71Nova]

Wow! That's the best looking factory Vette I've seen in a long time! That thing looks really nice.

Congrats!

[jmac]

WOW! Nice looking car! Good luck with it!

[byndbad914]

thanks for the compliments! Needless to say, I stepped foot on the local dealer's showroom floor just to see what a GS looks like in person, saw it, and basically couldn't leave without it :unibrow:

Called Katech BTW - Jason gave me some pointers on how to get access to see if the timing is being retarded or not, if so, then the E85 makes sense. Otherwise, there are enough questions (injector sizing may not be big enough, fuel pump volume, etc) and the fact I would have to enter the computer and void the warranty, I may just sit tight for awhile.

It ran 103mph Wed night at Bandimere at 14.24 best time (traction control didn't help, horrible 2.4-2.6 60' times, should be 13.70s) so I should be happy with it, but a guy had an LS3 Camaro with a Lingenfelter Maggie build running 12:70s, so the yearning for more power creeps in :thumbsup: He was on pump gas which I thought was a waste given the ease of E85 here - damn near every kid with a Suby in town runs E85.

[waynieZ]

Congratulaton's Beautiful car. I hope you get warm eather and dry roads untill late in the year to enjoy it.Those seats look really comfortable.
Sweet!

[jski67]

Congrats! My '09 is cyber gray too...awesome color.

[coolwelder62]

Awesome,that's one sweet!!! vette.And the color is smokin cool also.Some day if I sell my 69 camaro I want to buy a vette.Nice chioce.:thumbsup:

[byndbad914]

thanks again for all of the compliments! I have to admit, word has traveled fast even at my place of work and tons of people love the color combo and we had a company picnic and it was a line of people asking about it (!), so sounds like I made a good choice :thumbsup: My uncle (my biggest influence from a young age with hot rodding) called me up back in IA (word is traveling!) and he is planning on coming out this August to stay a couple days, hit Pinks All Out at Bandimere and tear around town in the car.

Having been a blue blood Ford guy most of my life, I have to admit GM hit the grand slam with this car. The Ford mod motor stuff sorta turned me off, and when I actually had an LS engine apart for the first time years ago, I realized that they dropped the bad designs of the SBC and took the fundamentals of the 90deg SBF and took it to the next level with the LS design, so my loyalty was changing with that insight. The C6 nailed the coffin shut on that loyalty :cool: That and a ride with a great driver at Buttonwillow track in his C5 Z06 back in 2005 :yes:

[Karl Buchka]

Unless there's a plug-and-play solution, I'm not sure it's worth the effort. E85 brings some other issues to the table, like hard starting in cold weather and oil contamination.

Have you talked to Ken about it? He's been running E85 in his 745 for at least a couple of years now.

[GregWeld]

Hate to be the negative nellie here - but I can't imagine - for the life of me - why you'd want to buy a brand new 'Vette - that is awesome right from the factory - and start messing with it.

For me - I want the new cars to be simple and hassle free... function like they should (and do) - have the factory taking care of any issues that arrise etc.

When I want to play with a car - that's what the hot rods are for... For those - I want the opposite of the factory stuff... I want loud and rowdy... and if they mess up - "oh well".

Killer color combo on the Vette...:cheers:

[byndbad914]

Have you talked to Ken about it? He's been running E85 in his 745 for at least a couple of years now.
Funny you mention Ken, he has been my friend since 1990 in SoCal when he had a V8 SBC Volvo and I had a 70 Mustang - we met each other thru friends and started going to the street races, etc in Compton CA back in the day. So needless to say that is sorta how I ended up in the same city here in CO as well. ;) Also who I got the $800 wagon from :unibrow: and finally where the thoughts of running E85 stem from.

Considering I have no intentions of driving in the winter here I am not too concerned. CO also goes down to around a 70% blend in the winter, so it isn't true E85.

Greg - I here ya and that was my intent from the beginning, leave it alone and enjoy it. And I have the race car already and that is what gets tracked, so I am likely not going to mess with the Vette given I too like the warranty idea of driving and letting others fix any issue for free, and sounds like any gains are minimal to none.

Off to pop the top and get some lunch! What I really bought it for anyway :woot:

[srh3trinity]

Nothing to add on the E85 convo, but I love the car. I think the new GS is a great looking Corvette and a nice option to the Z06 for the money. Love that gray color, is it cyber gray metallic?

[Karl Buchka]

Funny you mention Ken, he has been my friend since 1990 in SoCal when he had a V8 SBC Volvo and I had a 70 Mustang - we met each other thru friends and started going to the street races, etc in Compton CA back in the day. So needless to say that is sorta how I ended up in the same city here in CO as well. ;) Also who I got the $800 wagon from :unibrow: and finally where the thoughts of running E85 stem from.

Considering I have no intentions of driving in the winter here I am not too concerned. CO also goes down to around a 70% blend in the winter, so it isn't true E85.

He actually showed me pics of your Porsche a couple of years ago when we were hanging out at his place in Broomfield. Very cool build.

My brother and I machined the torque converter adapter he has in his wagon. :thumbsup:

[byndbad914]

Stephen - yes, cyber gray metallic and the wheels are match painted.

Karl - after my post I ended up running over to Ken's to work on the beater's AC later that day and mentioned your post and found out you had been out to his house and he mentioned the adapter plate. We then were talking about your car as I had seen your thread awhile back on this site. Funny... small world sometimes.

On the race car I am finishing up a complete conversion to dual A front and rear suspension from scratch and new wheels just showed up this AM, so when that is all done I planned to post some update pix in the race car forum here.

[89 RS]

That is one sweet 'Vette!

[LS1NOVA]

From what Ive read and seen, E85 isnt worth it on a NA car. The benifits show on forced induction cars where you can just crank up the boost. Id put the money elsewhere, like a cam and a tune.

[byndbad914]

Thanks Corey!

Nate - that is pretty much the consensus and I have driven it a few more times now and am pretty happy with the power and frankly, more power will just lead to a ticket sooner :unibrow: I haven't bothered to hook up to the computer and look for aggressive timing retard and am going to just leave it alone. Will only matter at WOT and considering it is my street fun car, WOT should be unnecessary 'cept a blast on a freeway on ramp here and there.

I have my 525HP road race car in my avatar and that is going to be my outlet when I have a need for speed and just keep this stock like I intended when I bought it :thumbsup:

down the road, after the warranty and so forth I will swap the cam, exhaust and intake stuff and bump it up to an easy 500+HP so I think I will go that route. It should be pretty straight forward to get 1.4HP/cube from a modern street combo which at 376 cubes = 526HP.

[Headlines]

Normaly i am not always a fan of dark wheels but holy crap that is the best looking set up i have ever seen

Congrats on the IMPRESIVE toy

[byndbad914]

thanks - I am not a big dark nor solid wheel color fan either and typically only like black centers with polished lips at best, or regular old silver, etc. I saw the dark wheels on GMs site and thought no way, but when I saw this car in person and the fact the wheels are paint code matched to the body (not just dark gray, but actual body color) I thought the car looked great too.

Also the car reminded me of a story when I walked into the dealership - my dad ordered a new diesel Ford Escort back in 1984. When they asked him what paint color, he thought a bit, looked at the options and said, "They say you should pick a color that matches your personality... so I guess I'll take dark gray" :lol: Funniest look I have ever seen on a salesman's face. Gotta love that Midwest sarcastic sense of humor :thumbsup: