Chemical Dip and E-coat

[projectsomeday]

I recently had my '69 Camaro media blasted on a rotisserie. After blowing out and vacuuming all of the leftover media, we d.a.'d all of the exterior surfaces and picked up some DuPont 5717s metal conditioner (blue liquid) and red scotch brite pads. We followed the instructions, which called for diluting the blue liquid with water, working it into the metal with the scotch brite pads, and then 'rinsing thoroughly'.

Well, before we even got to the rinsing stage, the metal was turning a rusty, brown color. We tried scrubbing and immediately wiping it down with a damp towel, but it didn't help. Eventually, the whole car inside and out was scrubbed with the blue liquid and then hosed down. We used the air compressor to blow out all the seams we could see/reach. Looking back, we probably shouldn't have broken out the hose, as I'm sure the water got to places it shouldn't have.

With the whole car in a rusty, brown mess, we went at it again a week later with the 5717s, but we didn't dilute it the second time, and we didn't use a hose to rinse it off....just a damp towel. Everything came out better...no rusty color, just shiny metal with an iridescent look to it.

Now I'm afraid about the pinch welds, nooks and crannies, and overlapped segments on the fenders, doors, etc. What if the water got in there and starts to cause rust? I guess the next step would be to get some etch primer, but I want to make sure the foundation is good first and not trap the rust in under the etch primer.

I've read about acid dipping and chemical/alkaline dipping, but it only seems like a good idea if you are able to immediately have everything e-coated to cover any areas you can't reach with a spray gun.

I've talked to Musclecar Restorations in Wisconsin. They seem to have a complete process, but the total cost would be $7300 for strip and e-coat, and right now it's a 4-month wait.

I've also talked to Metal Finishing Services in Mississippi (former Redi-Strip). They've done over 230 cars over the past 4 years. They have an alkaline stripping process, and they are able to outsource the e-coating to a nearby Nissan subcontractor that does truck frames. Since the truck frames are dipped on their sides, a normal car body won't fit in the bath, so they bolt the car to a fixture, and dunk it sideways. Their cost is around $3500 total with a 2-month wait.

Has anyone ever found a strip/e-coat process on the West Coast that can handle an entire car?
Any thoughts/suggestions on what I should do about the water that got in the pinch welds, overlapped areas, etc?
I'm new to the site...thanks the helpful info.

[pragmatist]

May want to give these guys a call.

http://autorestorationdepot.com/

[dhutton]

[QUOTE

Now I'm afraid about the pinch welds, nooks and crannies, and overlapped segments on the fenders, doors, etc. What if the water got in there and starts to cause rust? I guess the next step would be to get some etch primer, but I want to make sure the foundation is good first and not trap the rust in under the etch primer.

QUOTE]

I doubt a little bit of water in the pinch welds just one time is going to cause major rust issues. I would just shoot it with a good quality epoxy primer and move on.

Don

[67rstbkt]

Eastwood sells a product for neutralizing rust inside frames. The can comes with a hose and nozzle to get into tight places. Might be worth a look. I'm probably going to order some for my project soon. I've also swapped nozzles on a can of rust neutralizer and used one of those straw type nozzles to get into tight spots.

[dhutton]

Don, bare metal will start to rust with the humidity. So yes, water will too. Best way to do is strip to bare metal and prime, then paint. My 67 Camaro was stripped and e-coated, but we found areas that didn't get coated. So we cleaned the metal and re-shot with primer and eventually painted it. We just used a single stage paint, because it was used to protect the metal. I used a variety of different methods to get into the pinch welds. My bodyman's son used to repair air tools, so we had several ways to customize an air tool to get into spots. The little mini die grinder is actually a $400 tool, but it has been modified with adjustable air flow regulator from a paint gun. I used that tool the most with the wire wheels, but it is dangerous so you have to be well protected with safety protection. Although, if you cut corners then it will come back to haunt you later.

Jeff

Jeff, I assumed that the metal prep he used prevents rust. If not, then scuff it and shoot it with something like z-chrome rust defender. I'm guessing this car will never see rain let alone snow and salt. I think it's safe to say that there a lot of builds out there that were not dipped and e-coated. I've read some stories about dipped cars oozing all kinds of junk out of the pinch welds etc long after they were done so it's not without risk either.

Just my two cents,
Don

[GregWeld]

No matter what route you take -- you'd better look into what paint and process you plan to do - and make darn sure that all the 'stuff' people are telling you to put on etc is COMPATIBLE... because paint companies are very adamant about what you can and can't do as a base to their systems.

This whole - walnut shell - acid dip - soda blast - e coat or not to e coat debate has been going on for as long as I can remember... and as far as I know - nobody has come up with a perfect solution yet. Each has its pluses and minuses.

Remember too - that you're going to want to stick with ONE BRAND/SYSTEM of paint all the way through... from etching primers to sealers to filling primers to paint... There are rules about what goes on when etc and you need to pay a little attention to that.

:cheers:

[DRJDVM's '69]

I'm pretty sure all of the metal prep sprays leave a yellow/light brown residue that can be mistaken for rust....but its really the solution doing its job. They usually leave a phosphate residue whihc is kinda yellow....

Check with the company that makes the metal prep spray you used.