Introducing Project Unfair, The fastest All Around Pro Touring Car On The Planet!

[ProdigyCustoms]

John Parsons and I have been holding my breath on this Since SEMA on this! And it has been killing us both to hold it in.

We had to wait for the June issue of Super Chevy Magazine to hit the streets.

Project Unfair!

II Much Fabrication and Prodigy Customs have partnered up to build in the pages of Super Chevy Magazine the fastest All Around Pro Touring Car On the Planet!

John Parsons and Frank Serafine are going to where no one else has gone. We are re writing the Rule books! We are building a car to run with the best on the road coarse, autocross, Run 8s in the quarter mile and 200MPH + at the Maxton mile, all in a package capable of doing Power Tour and grab groceries.

Huh?

Pretty Strong Statement?

You Betcha!

So we are not screwing and around and going for the throat!

Introducing

Project Unfair!

Let's talk about the name.

Project Unfair.

It was John who came up with the name. We were talking one day about all things we are doing with this project and one of us said, it is almost Unfair! Then we start talking about Mark Donahue and the Unfair Advantage cars of Trans Am Legend, and the name was born.

So what is Unfair?

Revolutionary NO COMPROMISE Dual mode suspension will allow us to tune for handling or straight line activities. A true no compromise G machine set up and a true no compromise drag race set up. Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

Supercharged LSX engine with a BIG blower and 2 pulleys, 750HP street pump gas set up, 1100 HP race gas set up. Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

Traction control (Yes, traction control) Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

Anti lock brakes (Yes anti lock brakes) Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

Super lightweight using Chrome Moly, aluminum body panels, we are looking for 3000LB curb Weight. Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

We are raising the factory floor 1 1/2" to channel the body, lower the ride height and COG. Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

And there is more.

The entire build will be covered in 12 (6) page article issues of Super Chevy over the next year including Dyno and performance reports.

There is so much to the car, John and I are going to be fielding questions and telling more as we go.

Below are some renderings showing the 3 personalities and also the hulk we started with.

Enjoy

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0804-1.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/UnfairNoGrillEmblem.jpg

[tobenk]

Frank thats just wicked lookin man.:hail:

[Steve1968LS2]

You will lose to Penny on the autocross. Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

lol

Sorry.. couldn't resist.. :D

Bad Ass project.. Can't wait to see her all done up and killing apexes.. Even though you jilted me for another magazine I still get a free ride, right?

[DOOM]

Well Frank now I don't feel so bad. I thought my body was a disaster:faint:

[ArisESQ]

awesome rendering! i look forward to watching the build!

why did you guys decide to go with a blower over a turbo or turbos though? it would be a lot easier and faster to adjust the power level than a blower with 2 pulleys.
just a thought!

[Blake Foster]

from the looks of that body you must have found it DEEP in the evergaldes,

that looks like a very ambitious project, John ...... just couldn't resist could you??

[War]

I think it's unfair to start with that!

[ProdigyCustoms]

I hate Turbos. All the plumbing, heat, they are PIA.

[monza]

Sounds amazing! II Much and Prodigy can't wait to see this come together.
:thumbsup: The perfect car. :thumbsup:

UNFAIR that you had to start with that hunk.

[ArisESQ]

I hate Turbos. All the plumbing, heat, they are PIA.

understandable! a ysi ought to do the trick juuust fine!

[redfire69]

I just love that hulk you're starting with.... get your tetanus shots now!

[cdushane]

Rendering looks really good, can't wait to follow this one and see how it progresses :thumbsup: Who are you going to have build the motor?

[NsaneHotrodz]

Congrats! Although you could show a little more excitement about the build lol.:D

[Payton King]

but you know I am a yellow car guy.

I know there will be updates, but I assume you have gotten a jump on the body. Really looking forward to this build. Did I understand you are doing all of this in a year?

[monza]

but you know I am a yellow car guy.

I know there will be updates, but I assume you have gotten a jump on the body. Really looking forward to this build. Did I understand you are doing all of this in a year?

SEMA thrash!!! Get busy! LOL

[Spiffav8]

About time someone built a car that would give Todd a run for his money. :lol:

:thumbsup:

Looks like I'll be asking the wife to send Super Chevy in the goodies box from now on.

[ProdigyCustoms]

The magazine stories will run 12 to 14 issues. The car will be at RTTH's and will be testing in primer. Then to Sebring for testing first week of October. Then back to the shop, blown apart, painted and off to SEMA and Optima Challenge.

Oh the stress!

[fesler]

I think its a great idea for this and its cool for you guys, good luck man this is going to be a huge project for you guys.

[camcojb]

definitely be watching this. What type of blower, centrifugal or roots style?

Jody

[RECOVERY ROOM]

And i thought we had rust problems up here!...I hope you guys pull it off, should be badd a$$. Get your sleeping bags ready at the shop:lol:

[ironworks]

That body looks pretty light weight as it is now.

[130fe]

Frank, is that the green body you got from Scott in Pensacola? Nothing like starting with a good foundation :lol: Looking forward to following the build. I will call you later this week.

[ProdigyCustoms]

[QUOTE=130fe;283347]Frank, is that the green body you got from Scott in Pensacola? QUOTE]


No, that body turned out to be too nice. I wanted a car that needed full floors, so i put Scott body in my private collection. It is getting tubbed and sheetmetal soon, probably my new driver.

[Vegas69]

Way to take it to the next level. This is a seriously tough project to pull off successfully. Between Johns engineering back ground and your reall world smarts, I bet it turns out bitchin. I'm with Steve, you won't have any excuses when I lay an ass whoopin on you at the Optima Challenge. :lol:

[ProdigyCustoms]

definitely be watching this. What type of blower, centrifugal or roots style?

Jody

Went to California and met with Kenne Bell and looked over their new 3.6L blower. Fricken sick! They are all over it. that 3.6 is a monster. Were setting it up for a conservitive 12LBS on pump gas, will make 700HPish and a full boggie race gas 22LBs tune should make 1100HPish. Since were on race gas, nothing will stop us from turning it up a bit if we need to.

[65 347]

You will lose to Penny on the autocross. Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

lol

Sorry.. couldn't resist.. :D

:wow: WOW!!

[camcojb]

Went to California and met with Kenne Bell and looked over their new 3.6L blower. Fricken sick! They are all over it. that 3.6 is a monster. Were setting it up for a conservitive 12LBS on pump gas, will make 700HPish and a full boggie race gas 22LBs tune should make 1100HPish. Since were on race gas, nothing will stop us from turning it up a bit if we need to.
and instant boost too, that will be very trick! :bow:

Jody

[DOOM]

Way to take it to the next level. This is a seriously tough project to pull off successfully. Between Johns engineering back ground and your reall world smarts, I bet it turns out bitchin. I'm with Steve, you won't have any excuses when I lay an ass whoopin on you at the Optima Challenge. :lol:

WOW this is getting good!! And its all documented...

[tones2SS]

VERY COOL!!!
A "multi-purpose" car! I'm digging it. Keep us posted please!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[MarkM66]

Went to California and met with Kenne Bell and looked over their new 3.6L blower. Fricken sick! They are all over it. that 3.6 is a monster. Were setting it up for a conservitive 12LBS on pump gas, will make 700HPish and a full boggie race gas 22LBs tune should make 1100HPish. Since were on race gas, nothing will stop us from turning it up a bit if we need to.

It looks like they have a 4.2L also. Was that considered?

[Steve1968LS2]

That body looks pretty light weight as it is now.

Mother Nature weight reduction... :rofl:

[ProdigyCustoms]

It looks like they have a 4.2L also. Was that considered?

There is such a thing as TOO BIG. the Big BIG one would get lazy down low. but if you have a offshore race boat running at 6000RPMs all the time..............

Kenne Bell made close to 1500HP on a 5.4 Ford with the 3.6!

One thing I love about Kenne bell is the ice cold inlet air temps. We have one on Patricks 68 Camaro with a bone stock LS1, cam and 2.6 blower. It makes 535HP at the tires. And Patrick is my buddy but the man does not need a throttle, he needs a idle / wide open switch! It is all or nothing for Patrick!

And that thing has been running a few years, raced hard and put up wet, and is still running strong. And I attribute that to cool IATs

And the torque is AWESOME!

[Payton King]

your are building something for a rematch on the parkway? You may have me covered this time. LOL But you know I am going to try anyway.

Rupp threw down the gauntlet on the autocross, Todd stuck his chest out for Optima, figured I would go for the street race with all my 346 cubic inches. Lets see, my motor is 5.7 and your blower alone is 3.6...yea I am feeling confident.

Can't wait to see you at RTTH.

[BBC71Nova]

You will lose to Penny on the autocross. Kinda UNFAIR isn't it?

lol

Sorry.. couldn't resist.. :D

Bad Ass project.. Can't wait to see her all done up and killing apexes.. Even though you jilted me for another magazine I still get a free ride, right?

I don't care who you are. That right there ^ is funny stuff.

Can't wait to see this build progress Frank. Should be awesome build up.

John

[96z28ss]

Just to get this straight for a certain person on this forum.
Are you shooting for 8's or 8.99's?

[Bowtieracing]

Finally there is a reason to subscribe super chevy.... But 8´s in the quarter mile??? Cant wait to see the abs and traction control build :hail:

[takid455]

Interested to see budgets along with the build including labor and R&D time. who is supporting this build?

[98ssnova]

:eek: Cant wait to see some progress on this one Frank the body looks Great LOL. We need a popcorn motocon I have subscribed to this thread.

[ProdigyCustoms]

John and I are equal owners and are funding it. No budget, we are simply getting the best of the best materials to build the best all around car one can build. This is not a budget build. No cheap parts will work on this one. We are building a Supercar, and Supercars are not cheap.

If you value R and D time. R and D time will be HEAVY. We had 100s of hours in it before we touched the real car. Labor hours will be very high. Writing 72 pages of tech in the next 12 months is a lot of hours.

We have a goal, we are only worried about the goal.

We will add up the cost at the end.

[g356gear]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0804-1.jpg


I am sure with your vast network, you might have been able to find a more solid candidate. ;) This one looks like a 95% new sheetmetal project.

[novanutcase]

Hope your friends with the BFG sales manager!!!:wow:

John

[GregWeld]

Just to get this straight for a certain person on this forum.
Are you shooting for 8's or 8.99's?


THANK YOU! :rofl:

There's "EIGHTS" and then there is "IN TO THE EIGHTS"... :thumbsup: :D

Frank.... killer build!

It would have saved you some time to start with one of those offshore bodies... ya think? Man - you just don't see cars like that around here... I guess the grass grows too tall.

[GregWeld]

I was kind of afraid that body might fall off the cart! :rofl:

[HRBS]

Are you shooting for 8's or 8.99's?

When its a multi-purpose car whats the difference? LOL.
Our "all race" car weighs 3000lbs with driver and runs low 9.30's at 144mph. (1/4). This by no means is a streetable car. Its a purpose built drag car.
I think to do all they (John and Frank) plan to do with the car and manage to dip into the 8's even if it is "only" 8.99 is way more than impressive !
Nice build guys !

[GregWeld]

When its a multi-purpose car whats the difference? LOL.
Our "all race" car weighs 3000lbs with driver and runs low 9.30's at 144mph. (1/4). This by no means is a streetable car. Its a purpose built drag car.
I think to do all they (John and Frank) plan to do with the car and manage to dip into the 8's even if it is "only" 8.99 is way more than impressive !
Nice build guys !

I think he was making an inside joke -- we've all had that argument already - about calling a car that did 8.99 an "eight second car"... I lost that argument - but only to those against me (everyone -- LOL).

[nvr2fst]

John/Frank, One heck of a supercar project. At 22lbs on race gas you should be able to get the wheelie bars to "click". Looks like you boys will be extremely busy thrashing

[HRBS]

I hear you greg..... i kind of thought that. thats why i put the "LOL".
As for the inside joke... i think its a sense of pride than anything.
You can bet you A$$ when our car dips to a 8.99 I'll be braggin that its an "eight second car" also... :lol:
But to autocross etc then make a suspension tune and be able to run 8.99 is gonna be a fun car to watch evolve.

[skatinjay27]

LMFAO at the 8.99 comment!!!

[waynieZ]

This will be a fun build to watch.

[Greg from Aus]

Glad to see you finally came out of the closet Frank, Its been killing me too.

[Van B]

Thanks guys. This will be a fun one to follow.

[Vegas69]

Frank, that's a pretty bold claim in comparison to that first picture. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Flash68]

Wow. That's all I got for now. :D

[Jr]

There is such a thing as TOO BIG. the Big BIG one would get lazy down low. but if you have a offshore race boat running at 6000RPMs all the time..............

Kenne Bell made close to 1500HP on a 5.4 Ford with the 3.6!

One thing I love about Kenne bell is the ice cold inlet air temps. We have one on Patricks 68 Camaro with a bone stock LS1, cam and 2.6 blower. It makes 535HP at the tires. And Patrick is my buddy but the man does not need a throttle, he needs a idle / wide open switch! It is all or nothing for Patrick!

And that thing has been running a few years, raced hard and put up wet, and is still running strong. And I attribute that to cool IATs

And the torque is AWESOME!

Frank,
Did the people at Kenne bell share the IAT numbers of that 5.4L making 1500HP?

[ProdigyCustoms]

No, but the cooler lines run though the blower.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank, that's a pretty bold claim in comparison to that first picture. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It looks a little different now!

[evilzee28]

Hi Frank, will you be posting up a build thread on here as well in "real time" or maybe a video like the one you did before?? Or is it just going to be in the magazines??

cheers...Nige

[d touring]

I think this is just to cool! Really like the ideas.:thumbsup:

Will a suspension like the one in this car be for sale at some point?:unibrow:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Hi Frank, will you be posting up a build thread on here as well in "real time" or maybe a video like the one you did before?? Or is it just going to be in the magazines??

cheers...Nige


I have to be careful what I put out here and when I put it out here. The magazine believes in the project and gave us a lot of valuable pages, and while their circulation is 10 times the members here. We would all like for you to subscribe to the magazine.

So I can show some things here and there, you guys will know about things before they print. But I cannot post the entire install feature.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I think this is just to cool! Really like the ideas.:thumbsup:

Will a suspension like the one in this car be for sale at some point?:unibrow:


Yes sir, Right now we are doing the test fit into the body, working out the ahh ****s, and working on pricing.

We should be posting some pics by the weekend.

[parsonsj]

Hey all, yes, this looks to be a bit of a wild ride. To say the least. :)

I need to mention my consulting group, a set of engineers that have been and will continue to advise Frank and me as the build continues.

They are:

John Ulaszek, an ME, and an expert in lightweight materials and bolted joints,
Don Elliott, an ME, and the forced induction engineer for the Ford GT,
Glenn Estelle, an ME, and an expert in FEA analysis
Pete Visser, an ME, and an expert in electronic fuel injection.

And finally, Mike Norris. There is no truth to the rumor that Mike moved to Indiana to avoid having to help on this project. :cheers:

jp

[Romulus]

do you have any pictures of the passenger side of the body? I could almost - but not quite - see it via the driver's side. :willy: /sarcasm

This might be just enough of an excuse to run up the turnpike and ask some questions in person for a change. Wicked.

-R

[ProdigyCustoms]

The story about buying the car was great. Straight from Joe Dirt's Uncles collection at a trailer on a dirt road! You can see his collection of cars. In his area you wealth is determined by the amount of junk muscle cars in your yard. Sad part is I think is neihbor was even more rich!

Under a tarp, out of a picture, I could tell was a Elcamino with a wing, and BIG wing of the back. So I had to ask.

Me: So what's under the cover?

Dirt's Uncle: Thats my Pro Mod!

Me: Can we see it?

Off comes the tarp and under the cover is the most hideous piece of **** you have ever seen. 3 colors of primer, and the wing was made of 1/4" and 1/8" steel, still raw and rusting through! Monster 15" MT tire on some welded up widen 15" Rallies. Junk yard 350, smog heads, tunnel ram and a couple 850s!

So I had to ask.

Me: Ever run it?

Dirt's Uncle: Only once! When I got to half track I was going so fast they was waving me to slow down and I coasted through at 8 seconds flat!

The race track must have been 50 feet long, LOL!

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0769.jpg
Here is your passenger side shot.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0757.jpg
Remember we wanted a car that needed floors.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/ProudOwner.jpg
And Michael giving the thumbs up in Dirt's backyard!

[96z28ss]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0769.jpg
Here is your passenger side shot.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0757.jpg
Remember we wanted a car that needed floors.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/ProudOwner.jpg
And Michael giving the thumbs up in Dirt's backyard!

So your not planing on taking that to the media blaster right, cause I don't think there would be much left.
Seems like an awful lot of work to get to the point where it will look like a 69 camaro. Why not start with something better

[Reckley]

So you pretty much just bought yourself a 69 camaro VIN....LOL

[Romulus]

So your not planing on taking that to the media blaster right, cause I don't think there would be much left.
Seems like an awful lot of work to get to the point where it will look like a 69 camaro. Why not start with something better

It's the principal of the thing..... and makes for great advertising and bragging rights.... and it's one more Camaro saved from that rust pit. :thumbsup:

[NOT A TA]

AWESOME POST Frank! Made my day!

[XLexusTech]

Glad to see you finally came out of the closet Frank, Its been killing me too.

What are you trying to say :thumbsup: LOL

Cant wait to see this build and write ups

[awr68]

Cool project and outline!
And nice work Carter!! :thumbsup:

[BuiltByBrooks]

^x2, like the color choice also

[bigtyme1]

I completely missed this one frank, been so busy running around in circles with nothing to do. Keep us posted.

[98ssnova]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonner
Glad to see you finally came out of the closet Frank, Its been killing me too.

What are you trying to say LOL

Cant wait to see this build and write ups


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Nice

[ProdigyCustoms]

So your not planing on taking that to the media blaster right, cause I don't think there would be much left.
Seems like an awful lot of work to get to the point where it will look like a 69 camaro. Why not start with something better


Well, here is the deal.

(1) Just about every 69 Camaro needs quarters and rear filler.

(2) We are running a full wheel tub so the outer and inner wheelhouses will all be replaced

(3) We are building a notched firewall for engine set back so firewal was un important

(4) Very important, we planned to put a full front and rear floor in raised 1 1/2", this is a very important part of the plan, so why ruin a good floor car. .

(5) We want to extend the rockers 1" to give it a even lower look.

(6), We have a body jig, so this is easy.

(7) and most important, we are showing anything can be fixed

Now if you look closely, the rockers are not horrible however we did do inner rocker and will extend the outers. So we did not want to pay for good rockers.

The floor was horrible, easier to remove, all new raised floor is in.

Almost every car we do gets quarters, and these were less to trim.

The inner struture needed some patches after sandblasting but Michael and I did all the inner structure patch work in a hard weekend.

See, the sheetmetal is routine for us, we have a jig, so it goes pretty fast. No sense buying a car with good floors (did that) when they are getting cut out anyway. Might as well limit our up front cost.

[Blake Foster]

Remember we wanted a car that needed floors.

First objective acheived!!! :lol:

[elitecustombody]

Great save,Frank, :thumbsup: when are we gonna see the build pics?

[ProdigyCustoms]

This won't be out first miracle. We love saving these things. Love the rags to Riches story on these cars. And it is a great way to show what we can do. makes a great conversation piece!

This...............

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/begin7.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/begin5-1.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/begin6-1.jpg

Became this............

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0269.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0250.jpg

And this...............

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/momfirebird027.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0912.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0001.jpg

Became this...............

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_1048.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_1073.jpg

[tyoneal]

Frank:

I'm very proud for you. It take a big set of Balls for setting the bar that high. My hat is off for you two.

A couple of questions I have:

Will you be running the Wheelie Bars while your blowing people off the Auto Cross, and Road tracks?

Will what we see in the picture look exactly like your car when you:

A) Finish?

B) Run each of the events? (Auto X, Road Race, Drag Race)

So what we see is what you will be running?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I am very curious, and I think your rendering is Terrific!

I look forward to watching and hearing how it comes together.

I'd wish you luck, but I don't think you will need it. You have always put out fine cars.

Thanks for sharing this build, and yes, I will be taking another magazine in the near future.

Ty O'Neal

BTW: When will the ABS Kit be available?

1) This is something you should make available to all of us as soon as possible to help finance your build.

2) It's for the Children ;-)

Seriously, I would be interested, and if I would need certain products, I don't want to have to buy anything twice to put you system on my car.

Take care,

Ty

[DOOM]

Love bringing them back from the dead Frank! Why take the easy way out...:D

[CraigMorrison]

It looks like the only thing that wasn't rusty was the title. Looking forward to seeing how our idea works out on the rear......

[mild2wild]

I saw this soon to be monster first hand in January and had to keep it under wraps til now. If anyone can pull this thing off, it's Frank and company. Let me know Frank when you're coming up to Wegner for dyno time.

[Bowtieracing]

Frank let us know when the story starts in super chevy..so i know when to press "subscribe" button:_paranoid

[nvmyss]

I saw the first blurb and pictures of the rusted shell in the latest issue.

Frank let us know when the story starts in super chevy..so i know when to press "subscribe" button:_paranoid

[g356gear]

Frank...have you guys ever used a Dynacorn body for a project?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Yes, our Going for the Gold Blue 69 Camaro was a Dynacorn build.

[g356gear]

Yes, our Going for the Gold Blue 69 Camaro was a Dynacorn build.

Do you find it easier to start with a good steel body or from scratch with an original but very rusty body...regardless of the steel mods that you may want to do. I realize there are pro's and con's to each....just wondering if the cost of new steel parts and all the repair time outweigh modifying a solid body.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We certainly talked about a Dynacorn body.

For the sheetmetal we needed to repair the body is about $4000 (not including our aluminum front sheemetal) that the Dynacorn body does not come with.

With a new body we would have to remove the floors front to rear , remove inner and outer wheelhouses, then cut out the firewall, then remove and replace the outer rockers (extending) by the time we were done we would have the Dynacorn trimed down to a skeleton anyway.

[tuff57]

Frank looks like a sickkk idea, I'm likeing the idea of this:thumbsup:. What kind of supercharger are you guys planning on?
Joe

[parsonsj]

The supercharger is Kenne Bell's 3.6L monster.

http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/BigBore/BigBore.html

[tgvettes]

This is what they call rust free Florida cars Frank LOL

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK guys, so here it is. The Art Morrison 5 link!

What? Too many bars?

That right there is a true no compromise road race 3 link set up when the upper outer bars are removed. That is also a true no compromise Drag Race 4 link (just like a Pro Stocker) when the upper center car is removed! Quite honestly this is one of those things that is right in front of you no one saw it!

We approached Art and Craig Morrison at SEMA with this idea of building the fastest ALL AROUND Pro Touring car ever including 8 second quarters. Art told me I really should not party so much when I am in Vegas, LOL! So we told the Morrison's of our idea of making the car a "Pro Touring transformer" of sorts. A car with the ability to quickly (few hours) transform from a great autocross / road race car to a great drag car by moving some stuff around and swapping some easy to change Components (Read more later). The idea was for a suspension system with massive adjust ability. Those Morrison's are so damn smart. Craig made my day one morning when he called, GOT IT! A 3 / 4 link! Of coarse I thought immediatly! I could not call Parson's fast enough.

I am sure all the suspension scientist here will agree a properly tuned 3 link is as good as G machine suspension gets. Personally I think it is the best, but that could be argued all day.

And no one can even argue a proper (drag race) parallel 4 link is the absolute best on the drag strip!

So yes guys, it Will work on the road coarse, it WILL hook at the drag strip.

You guys are welcome to ask any questions, I will answer the big ones now.

(1) Will this set up be available to buy? YES! We will have these available SOON! But DO NOT call Prodigy or AME to buy YET! Please give us sometime to get it in the car, look at packaging and minor fabrication.

(2) When will we be ready to take orders? SOON! While we DO NOT need to have this in a running in the car to KNOW it works, We simply have to work out the final fitment and cost. So I can take reservations immediatly and I suspect we can start taking orders in 30 days, but again, PLEASE do not inundate AME or me with phone calls quite yet. Remember you are getting a preview before we should give you a preview.

(3) How much will it cost? AME is still working on that. Keep in mind, Project unfair is a car with a goal, so cost analysis comes AFTER you have the real thing in front of you. The suspension system was done the same way, build it and get it done, look at cost later. Craig and I did discuss some general cost ideas and tragets, and basing it on the current AME rear clip in a Tri 4 bar or 3 link is right around $3600 to $4000 for clip and housing (DEAL), Hopes are to keep this multi link clip and housing set up in the $5000 to $5500 range. But again, all the cost still have to be examined.

(4) Does the car have to be back halfed? NO! the frame rails are molded to fit the original rear floor like AME's other 3 Link and Tri 4 Bar clips. You just drill out your old frame rails and weld these new stronger molded 2 X 3 rails in place. HOWEVER, there is some penetration through the floor where the upper links connect, and there will be some reliefs and closeouts that will have to be fabricated, but this should be very mild fabrication.

(5) How big a tire can this handle? More then a notched factory frame as long as you do not use pre packaged tubs. The outer frame rails are 1" more narrow then the narrowest possible frame width with thinnest factory frame rail notch one can do. And what is so cool is you not only keep a full rail where you normally notch, but you have a stronger rail also. Our drag tires will be 345 / 35 / 18 Drag Radials with a section around 14.5"! So we will be making bigger mini tubs for Unfair.

I will leave it at that for now. So ask any questions

Enjoy

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0179-1.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0182-2.jpg

[GregWeld]

That is bad ass!

Love it Frank!

[GregWeld]

One big question --

I was always under the impression that 4 link was horrible for cornering -- so what do you "remove" or change on this set up to go right and left.

I'm a little surprised there is no "swivel link" type bars used in order to gain some tilt for cornering given the tall order for Unfair. But then again - you know (and JP) WAY WAY WAY more about this stuff than most here. So just trying to learn something with my question.

:thumbsup:

[parsonsj]

Greg,

For cornering applications, you run a 3 link, with the upper/outer bars removed. For drag racing, you run a 4 link, with the upper/center bar removed.

You never run the car with all 5 bars connected.

The rod ends are Spohn's Del-Sphere Pivot Joints, and they are very cool. They pivot just fine with a steel on Delrin interface, and are adjustable (for stiction), rebuildable, and greaseable.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/Del-Sphere-Pivot-Joints/

Hope that helps.

jp

[realcoray]

One big question --

I was always under the impression that 4 link was horrible for cornering -- so what do you "remove" or change on this set up to go right and left.

I'm a little surprised there is no "swivel link" type bars used in order to gain some tilt for cornering given the tall order for Unfair. But then again - you know (and JP) WAY WAY WAY more about this stuff than most here. So just trying to learn something with my question.

:thumbsup:

If you remove the upper 4 link bars it becomes a 3 link. It's an interesting idea that works well here but how many people adjust their existing single type of suspension? Also, it sure seems like the drag race crowd is a completely different group from autocross/road course. but perhaps this project will help with that.

[ProdigyCustoms]

If you remove the upper 4 link bars it becomes a 3 link. It's an interesting idea that works well here but how many people adjust their existing single type of suspension?

this sytem IS NOT for the guy that does not like to tinker with his car. If your just a drag racer or just a G machiner, there are lots of choices available. this supnesion for guys like me that want to autocross on Saturday and drag race on Sunday, literly


Also, it sure seems like the drag race crowd is a completely different group from autocross/road course. but perhaps this project will help with that.

It is kinda funny, my partner shared your feelings. John thought someone insterested in handling did not care much about drag racing. UNTIL..............we went to Barret Jackson with II Much.

We sat with II Much (and EmptyNest) every minute the auction was open. To field questions before the sale. Do you care to guess what the most common question about II Much was at Barret Jackson?

What's in run in the quarter? John would answer he had never drag raced it, that is was a road race / G machine.

Know what the next question was?

So what do you THINK it would run in the quarter?

The quarter mile is something that is a number, something one can relate to, bragging rights! Drag racing is also readily available and not as scary to most as actually road racing their car.

So this made John and I talk about what ET II Much might have run in the quarter, and how cool it would be to have a car that did both excellent and...........................................

[awr68]

Yep....certainly going to watch this one!! Great start on the suspension!! :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Greg,

For cornering applications, you run a 3 link, with the upper/outer bars removed. For drag racing, you run a 4 link, with the upper/center bar removed.

You never run the car with all 5 bars connected.

The rod ends are Spohn's Del-Sphere Pivot Joints, and they are very cool. They pivot just fine with a steel on Delrin interface, and are adjustable (for stiction), rebuildable, and greaseable.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/Del-Sphere-Pivot-Joints/

Hope that helps.

jp

That does! Thanks John! That was what I "thought" but wasn't certain. Makes perfect sense... but sometimes I have none! LOL

[nvr2fst]

[QUOTE=ProdigyCustoms;284148]OK guys, so here it is. The Art Morrison 5 link!

What? Too many bars?

That right there is a true no compromise road race 3 link set up when the upper outer bars are removed. That is also a true no compromise Drag Race 4 link (just like a Pro Stocker) when the upper center car is removed! Quite honestly this is one of those things that is right in front of you no one saw it!

We approached Art and Craig Morrison at SEMA with this idea of building the fastest ALL AROUND Pro Touring car ever including 8 second quarters. Art told me I really should not party so much when I am in Vegas, LOL! So we told the Morrison's of our idea of making the car a "Pro Touring transformer" of sorts. A car with the ability to quickly (few hours) transform from a great autocross / road race car to a great drag car by moving some stuff around and swapping some easy to change Components (Read more later). The idea was for a suspension system with massive adjust ability. Those Morrison's are so damn smart. Craig made my day one morning when he called, GOT IT! A 3 / 4 link! Of coarse I thought immediatly! I could not call Parson's fast enough.

I am sure all the suspension scientist here will agree a properly tuned 3 link is as good as G machine suspension gets. Personally I think it is the best, but that could be argued all day.

And no one can even argue a proper (drag race) parallel 4 link is the absolute best on the drag strip!

So yes guys, it Will work on the road coarse, it WILL hook at the drag strip.

That is sweet idea and set up guys, who would have thought. Love it :thumbsup:

[gearheads78]

This may be the coolest car ever built. I am a dragracer at heart just starting to learn about this turning stuff. I love it!!

[legend]

sounds like a great project, but surely for a road course or laguna seca a full IRS would be preferable?

would that setup be a limiting factor in a drag race?

[E.rodz]

wow those are some big goals. well it looks like you chose a light weight car to begin with.lol. I cant wait to see this progress. good luck on the build it looks like you guys have the capability to make it happen keep the inspirations coming.:thumbsup:

[Tuske427]

this is great inspiration- thank you for sharing this build with the rest of us!

[CraigMorrison]

Cant wait to see more pics Frank!

[MarkM66]

Cant wait to see more pics Frank!

Yeah,

Pictures vs. text ... UNFAIR!

;)

[monza]

The five link...:hail:

[sacarguy]

There is such a thing as TOO BIG. the Big BIG one would get lazy down low. but if you have a offshore race boat running at 6000RPMs all the time..............

Kenne Bell made close to 1500HP on a 5.4 Ford with the 3.6!

One thing I love about Kenne bell is the ice cold inlet air temps. We have one on Patricks 68 Camaro with a bone stock LS1, cam and 2.6 blower. It makes 535HP at the tires. And Patrick is my buddy but the man does not need a throttle, he needs a idle / wide open switch! It is all or nothing for Patrick!

And that thing has been running a few years, raced hard and put up wet, and is still running strong. And I attribute that to cool IATs

And the torque is AWESOME!

what do you consider ice cool because the average iat at 15 psi on the kb kits is around 135 to 140 ish degrees

Far as i am aware have the highest rwhp horsepower 05 up mustang in the country running a kb 2.6 blower 996 rwhp with a 2.6 H unit the 2.9 can make 1000 + rwhp the unit you are looking at 1300 + rwhp my car ran nines all day and drove like a stock car < albeit i ran race fuel in it :) >

When its a multi-purpose car whats the difference? LOL.
Our "all race" car weighs 3000lbs with driver and runs low 9.30's at 144mph. (1/4). This by no means is a streetable car. Its a purpose built drag car.
I think to do all they (John and Frank) plan to do with the car and manage to dip into the 8's even if it is "only" 8.99 is way more than impressive !
Nice build guys !

there are many late model efi street cars that run int he low nines high eights with street aminities .. they just arent classic pro trouring cars search some of the late model mustang camaro and corvette forums..

there goal is very plausible with the right setup ive been 203 mph and 7's quarter in my full race drag radial mustang also on a 295-60-15 and thats with stock controll arm replacement UPR mustang factory angled four link and a anti roll bar wich is not as effective as a true four link so the et they are looking for is cake with proper seuspension and the tire they plan to run

[HRBS]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0182-2.jpg

Frank,
you mentioned or I saw somewhere you were going to run wheelie bars for the track. These I would assume would be a "bolt on as needed part" similar to the way the 3/4 link works. But looking at this pic, it looks like you're running out of real estate. LOL. Have you guys designed a way to run them yet ?

[ProdigyCustoms]

what do you consider ice cool because the average iat at 15 psi on the kb kits is around 135 to 140 ish degrees

130s are damn low for a blower car.

Far as i am aware have the highest rwhp horsepower 05 up mustang in the country running a kb 2.6 blower 996 rwhp with a 2.6 H unit the 2.9 can make 1000 + rwhp the unit you are looking at 1300 + rwhp my car ran nines all day and drove like a stock car < albeit i ran race fuel in it :) >

Sounds like a badd beotch

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank,
you mentioned or I saw somewhere you were going to run wheelie bars for the track. These I would assume would be a "bolt on as needed part" similar to the way the 3/4 link works. But looking at this pic, it looks like you're running out of real estate. LOL. Have you guys designed a way to run them yet ?

We won't need wheelie bars. 4 links can be tuned to hook and keep the front wheels down. but they do look cool!

[GregWeld]

I was at the dyno last week -- they were running a WHIPPLE (Whipplecharger) on a 632 ci "boat motor".... it had a water intercooler under the blower. The observed cooler temps (air) was 105* and this pig was making 1300 hp.

We figured the air temps were "far cooler" than "normal" because it was a WET blower application (the injectors were at the intake) and the fuel was really helping to keep things cool.

[J2SpeedandCustom]

Frank and John did you guys ever consider an IRS for the rear?


A simple methanol/E85 injector pre-throttle body can knock those IAT's way down! If you want to run straight E85 / meth you don't even need an intercooler. I've seen charger motors with IAT's in 30 - 40 C range.

[HRBS]

We won't need wheelie bars. 4 links can be tuned to hook and keep the front wheels down. but they do look cool!

I've been involved in drag racing my whole life from when i was in diapers.
A properly "tuned" 4 link will plant the tires and center of gravity along with front limiters etc will "help" calm a cars launch. However all it takes is one good launch and that back bumper will get some road rash. LOL. I've seen some properly tuned, high dollar, beautifull cars with no wheelie bars kiss the sky only to come crashing down HARD. I know you guys know what you're doing so I'll leave it at that. That rear suspension looks killer ! :thumbsup:

[ProdigyCustoms]

I've been involved in drag racing my whole life from when i was in diapers.
A properly "tuned" 4 link will plant the tires and center of gravity along with front limiters etc will "help" calm a cars launch. However all it takes is one good launch and that back bumper will get some road rash. LOL. I've seen some properly tuned, high dollar, beautifull cars with no wheelie bars kiss the sky only to come crashing down HARD. I know you guys know what you're doing so I'll leave it at that. That rear suspension looks killer ! :thumbsup:

No you gotta admit, Autocross on Saturday and wheelies on Sunday is pretty damn cool! I will put caster wheels on the bumper if I have to, LOL!

[69c4x11]

I hope this does'nt fall in line with G-Force Cuda ??It was to be the Ultimate ! All the money and did not do what it was built for !! Ask Alan Johnson ??

[ironworks]

I've been involved in drag racing my whole life from when i was in diapers.
A properly "tuned" 4 link will plant the tires and center of gravity along with front limiters etc will "help" calm a cars launch. However all it takes is one good launch and that back bumper will get some road rash. LOL. I've seen some properly tuned, high dollar, beautifull cars with no wheelie bars kiss the sky only to come crashing down HARD. I know you guys know what you're doing so I'll leave it at that. That rear suspension looks killer ! :thumbsup:

We have kissed the sky quite a few times, But we have also carried a few 1/2 track wheelies out to some 7.80's. But my buddy Roger just ran some 7.30's without wheelie bars in his new car, and lifted. It is very tricky. We would move just a few pounds of weight front to back depending on track conditions and the power we were putting to the ground. You typically set the instant center a tick longer and drive into the power, He is running 726 Fulton with 5 stages.

Without much adjustment, You guys better have alot of moveable weight on the car.

[legend]

Frank and John did you guys ever consider an IRS for the rear?


interested in this, I've no experience with drag racing so I'm interested in the limitations of IRS.

I know that solid axles are technically inferior when corners are involved, but there's a fair number of solid axle cars doing well on road courses, but no one would "start" a theoretical ultimate car design build with a solid axle unless there were other reasons, such as drag races

[Chicken Louie]

Frank,

I am glad to see you got this project posted. I got the chance to see the starting point, when I visited the shop back in January, and the picture doesn't come close in showing what little you guys have to start with. My hats are off you and your crew :hail:

Dave

[HRBS]

No you gotta admit, Autocross on Saturday and wheelies on Sunday is pretty damn cool! I will put caster wheels on the bumper if I have to, LOL!

No doubt my friend.... the word "cool" is an understatement !

[Jr]

Frank and John did you guys ever consider an IRS for the rear?


A simple methanol/E85 injector pre-throttle body can knock those IAT's way down! If you want to run straight E85 / meth you don't even need an intercooler. I've seen charger motors with IAT's in 30 - 40 C range.

Jeff,
Do you have a link to some of this info? I would love to read more about the IAT's in 30-40 C range. Where the cars setup for drag racing? Was the car running a 1 or 2 gallon tank of E85 or meth?

[J2SpeedandCustom]

Jeff,
Do you have a link to some of this info? I would love to read more about the IAT's in 30-40 C range. Where the cars setup for drag racing? Was the car running a 1 or 2 gallon tank of E85 or meth?

I dig up some sites and PM them to you. I don't want to de-rail Frank's thread.

[68RS350]

That rear end looks awesome it is a great idea. I thought I would share my 2 cents on packaging for that. I think it would be a great idea to sell that as a 4 link package, and 3 link package, and the "5" link or both set ups. Then offer the the links for the 4 link set up and the 3 link set up seperately as an add on later. It may help sell a few to begin with so people can get their cars finished and running and then purchased the links for the other set up when the funds permit or the car is done.

[JKnight]

I hope this does'nt fall in line with G-Force Cuda ??It was to be the Ultimate ! All the money and did not do what it was built for !! Ask Alan Johnson ??

It didn't? hmmmm....not sure about that.

[sacarguy]

130s are damn low for a blower car.



Sounds like a badd beotch

ya thats post intercooler on 03 cobra gt-500 setups

[Sinco]

subscribed!

[extralight]

Frank, such a cool project. I have no doubt John and you will meet your goals. Thanks for sharing with us.

p.s....how do you get any work done in the summer....I'm in Ft Myers right now for a golf weekend and it's already so hot the first day of May.

[WinMan]

Any info on how you plan to get ABS to work?

[ProdigyCustoms]

p.s....how do you get any work done in the summer....I'm in Ft Myers right now for a golf weekend and it's already so hot the first day of May.

Air conditioned shop! Only way to do it.

And yes, it was very hot already today.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Any info on how you plan to get ABS to work?


Not yet, have to wait a bit to talk about it.

[WinMan]

Not yet, have to wait a bit to talk about it.

HAHA, I will keep following the post then. I know lots dont like ABS but I think it is a wonderful thing to have on a car.

[Steve1968LS2]

It didn't? hmmmm....not sure about that.

Curious.. what did it do?

Not saying it wasn't capable, but I never saw it on an autocross.. or road course.. I can't remember if it ever tried the Maxton mile type deal.

I saw it at the drags once (RTTH) where it broke the rearend.. The guy that owned it after Bob and before Doug put 35 miles on it.

I'm sure Doug will get around to beating it, but I don't think it's really done much performance driving yet.

Then agian, maybe I missed something.

[MarkM66]

Curious.. what did it do?

Not saying it wasn't capable, but I never saw it on an autocross.. or road course.. I can't remember if it ever tried the Maxton mile type deal.

I saw it at the drags once (RTTH) where it broke the rearend.. The guy that owned it after Bob and before Doug put 35 miles on it.

I'm sure Doug will get around to beating it, but I don't think it's really done much performance driving yet.

Then agian, maybe I missed something.

Autocross.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCeIvMPjUMg&feature=related

Current owner states it's been clocked at over 185mph. Confident it'd do 200mph.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=269855&postcount=129

http://g-forcecuda.com/albums/airport/P3246146.jpg

160 mph at Road Course.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showpost.php4?p=269855&postcount=129

http://g-forcecuda.com/albums/2006Putnam/airride1_021.jpg

http://g-forcecuda.com/gallery/2006Putnam

http://g-forcecuda.com/albums/2006Putnam/D83K5866.jpg

[pokey64]

Latest Super Chevy just landed in my mailbox today :unibrow:

[mcfadyen72]

If everything is supposed to be unfair. Then why don't you do something with the design of the car that is ground-breaking instead of a stock looking yellow camaro with a black hood?
just a suggestion, i appreciate all that this car is to date, keep going!

[ProdigyCustoms]

We decided from a styling persepctive to keep the car and proportions very stock. That is what we like and also what the majority likes. Once you start cutting, choping, frenching, wedging, flushing, for every one you excite you probably push away 10 others. And like I said, we love the look of a 69 Camaro.

[d touring]

We decided from a styling persepctive to keep the car and proportions very stock. That is what we like and also what the majority likes. Once you start cutting, choping, frenching, wedging, flushing, for every one you excite you probably push away 10 others. And like I said, we love the look of a 69 Camaro.


I would have to agree completely. I love to push the envelope as much as the next guy but in the end the car we remember from that era still looks good in our head.

PS but the cutting chopping an stuff is still cool too!

Thanks for sharing

[parsonsj]

why don't you do something with the design of the car that is ground-breaking instead of a stock looking yellow camaro with a black hood?Well... there's design, and then there's design. The car needs to be recognizable as a 69 Camaro, and it has to be something that other enthusiasts can claim as their own. Keeping the outer sheet metal as GM originally intended will help with that, and so is one of our base requirements. We are showcasing the Auto Metal Direct replacement parts (both in aluminum and steel), and it's hard to show off replacement parts that get tweaked.

The car has enough new technology in it; plenty enough to keep Frank and I up at night wondering if we can get all of it done. :)

I'm sure there will be other projects that tweak the sheet metal for a different look.

jp

[elitecustombody]

John ,it's Auto Metal Direct.

I still think you should look into V160 Getrag 6 speed transmission, FWIW there was an update between some years, can't recall what year, and they have different gears,plus SW managed to get his 6 speed Supra to break 240+mph,setting records so I know it's worth looking into

[Vegas69]

If everything is supposed to be unfair. Then why don't you do something with the design of the car that is ground-breaking instead of a stock looking yellow camaro with a black hood?
just a suggestion, i appreciate all that this car is to date, keep going!

A 69 Camaro is a damn good looking car with stock sheet metal. Chopping up a great foundation it like sending a super model to a plastic surgeon. It turns out great once in a while. :unibrow: There are clearly some examples around here that turned out great and tasteful. The Kalis Camaro comes to mind. I like it but it could hurt it's marketability when it is sold.

[ProdigyCustoms]

A 69 Camaro is a damn good looking car with stock sheet metal. Chopping up a great foundation it like sending a super model to a plastic surgeon. It turns out great once in a while. :unibrow: There are clearly some examples around here that turned out great and tasteful. The Kalis Camaro comes to mind. I like it but it could hurt it's marketability when
it is sold.\

Spoken from the man with one of the simplest exterior cars we have done and the most requested car to duplicate!

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK, so time to update. We have been crushed at Prodigy Customs finishing (4) projects, (3) 69 Camaro's all of which are headed to RTTHs for their debut. We also have been readying the Bull Run Racer for Bull Run 2010 with a new Magnum 6 speed and lots of tinkering, and Lucy is ready to kick much ass this year!

John has been working on the Isis System and plumbing of a absolutely gorgeous black 69 Camaro we are finishing for a member. This is one of the cars coming to Pigeon Forge. While we have all been slamming on the other cars we have been working out the final details and sources for Project Unfair preparing for the eminent thrash.

Tomorrow is a big day for the project. I am flying to New Jersey to meet with Pat Musi to finalize the details of our engine build. Our RHS Block is already at Musi's shop. Our Mast Motorsports 6 bolt heads are shipping this week. The national sales manager and my close friend Tom Razzanno (who's SB2 headed SBC 427 68 Camaro convertible we are finishing right now) will be at the meeting as Manley will be supplying their killer rotating assembly. With the bulletproof list of parts and Musi building the motor, John and I are very comfortable of our power goals will met and the durability of the monster. I still cannot believe we are building a car and Pat Musi is building the engine...pinch me!

John has our traction control system in hand and is working through that. Our Holley fuel injection is on the way to John (exciting stuff for sure).

Last week Michael got the rear clip / suspension in the car. The installation went really well. The frame rails fit the floor perfectly. This week Michael will be doing the tubs and outer body sheetmetal. Then Unfair goes to John who has boxes and boxes of header and exhaust material from Cone Engineering. We are familiar with the quality of Cone Engineering products as we used them on Larry's MotiV8tr. At John's he will be doing pre wiring and plumbing while we wait for our drivetrain to arrive. Unfair will head back to Prodigy in a few weeks for body / Paint and get ready for final assembly. Things are gong to move very quickly now so the update will come faster.

Here is some automotive jewelry for you

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0029.jpg
The Art Morrison sports a slightly relocated Woodward rack. Our front pulley sits BEHIND the rack the way we have it set up. Michael should put in the rack this week.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0050.jpg
I just love calling it our 5 link! I think I am unnaturally attracted to the rear suspension!

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0102.jpg
The boys are Xing out the rear clip in preparation for welding.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0109.jpg
I was extremely impressed with how well the Morrison frame rails fit the floor. Just awesome quality stuff!

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0060.jpg
We have a little closeout work to do around the multi link brackets.

[BanditDave]

It's been a while since I went through this whole thread, but I imagine you don't intend to keep the backseat?

And btw, Frank, there is nothing wrong with being attracted to rear suspension, I have professed my love for many an automotive component in my life...no one can understand! ;) :rofl:

Looking great and man that AME frame REALLY fits well!

[tones2SS]

Very nice.:thumbsup:

[deuce_454]

looks great... but i dont see how swapping from 3 to 4 links would differ from relocating the front link attachment point in the 3 link... it will be kinematically the same if the attatchment point of the 3.rd link is sufficiently sturdy and located corectly.... ...

[ProdigyCustoms]

We have made some big headway on Project Unfair. The rear suspension is in. We made wheel tubs using a Art Morrison wheel tub kit. We wanted a tub that did not curve at the top of the tub and wanted full travel to the top of the tub. We raised the tubs 1 1/2" also. We made the outer tub fit the quarter as tight as it could and gained some space where the factory outer wheelhouse bulges in a bit. We also welded a 1/4 rod all around the wheel opening moulding and when welded to the outer heel house will be very a very smooth edge SHOULD a tire ever get close to it.

All this is to clear our taller / wider 345 / 35 / 18 drag radials which are almost 28" tall! We pulled the wheels off Michael's Monte and mocked them up at ride height, pretty fricken sick height with complete suspension travel. What a difference 1 1/2" makes.

The sheetmetal is all screwed into place and fits excellent now. The door gap looks wide in this pic but it is a camera angle, the door gaps are actually very good. Trunk gaps need a little massage, but all in all I am very happy with the AMD stuff.

FYI, we weighed the AMD panels and a pair of Golden Legion panels. The AMD are 28 LBS, the Golden Legion are 18LBS! BIG difference and you can feel it to. When we welded the bead on the quarters we go little to no warpage!

We are getting a set of those 345 / 35 / 18 drag radials mounted on Michaels Monte wheels, so I will mock them up on Unfair before putting back on Michael's car and post pics later.

It is starting to look like a car and I am getting really excited now.

John will now get it for a couple months and start pre wiring, pre pumbing, Making headers / exhaust.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0310.jpg


http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0366.jpg
Cruise and race height!

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0370.jpg
Lots a room!

[DOOM]

Frank did you put new rockers on this car....

[jy211]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0366.jpg
Cruise and race height!



Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! :willy: :cheers:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank did you put new rockers on this car....

Funny you should ask. Michael will extend the rockers to the bottom of the pinch weld next week. So there is no more ugly pinch weld.

[mild2wild]

Lookin good Frank. Any update on my engine?

[ProdigyCustoms]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0378.jpg
Drag Radials, Yummy! I wish there was a good 345 / 35 / 18 road race tire. I sure do like the way this looks!

[waynieZ]

It looks great.

[waynieZ]

It looks great. I wish they made 19" street tires that tall.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Lookin good Frank. Any update on my engine?

This little 418 Cubic Inch 600HP montser here? What you see is your custom ported throttle body I got yesterday in fact. We will put the road race pan, itake and T body on tomorrow and ship it to Wisconsin

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/DSC_0376-1.jpg

[73CPCAMARO]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0378.jpg
Drag Radials, Yummy! I wish there was a good 345 / 35 / 18 road race tire. I sure do like the way this looks!

Hoosier and Kuhmo make a 345/35/18 autocross and road race compound tire. They are 26.8" tall. This is the size I am using on my Camaro.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=23997


http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/bdjhob/IMG_2722.jpg

[G-Body]

Are things that bad that you guys have to start with such wrecks to begin with damn thats some dedication and alot of will for a 69 camaro.

Gonna be an amazing build look forward to following it but seems that there should be some better paltforms to start with!
Good luck and keep the pics comming.

[parsonsj]

Any update on my engine?We have one major announcement on that: we're using Holley's new Dominator EFI for the car. Holley's new system has every feature you can think of: dual wideband, drive-by-wire, mega data recording, all kinds of boost reference tuning, 32x32 tables, and on and on and on.

jp

[ProdigyCustoms]

We have one major announcement on that: we're using Holley's new Dominator EFI for the car. Holley's new system has every feature you can think of: dual wideband, drive-by-wire, mega data recording, all kinds of boost reference tuning, 32x32 tables, and on and on and on.

jp

He is actually talking about his engine, we just built him a Prodigy Power 418

[ProdigyCustoms]

It looks great. I wish they made 19" street tires that tall.

They do, 345 / 30 / 19s are the same height. Check out on my site in Project EmptyNEst and Payback.

[cdushane]

Looks like the boys at Prodigy are setting the bar that much higher on this one :hail:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Are things that bad that you guys have to start with such wrecks to begin with damn thats some dedication and alot of will for a 69 camaro.

Gonna be an amazing build look forward to following it but seems that there should be some better paltforms to start with!
Good luck and keep the pics comming.

If your going to replace everything anyway, why pay for good panels! Raising the floor pushed us into needing a everything needed project. But seeing it at ride height with full suspension travel reminds me why we chenneled it 1 1/2". About 2 weeks ago though I was questioning myself, LOL! Damn a lot of work!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Hoosier and Kuhmo make a 345/35/18 autocross and road race compound tire. They are 26.8" tall. This is the size I am using on my Camaro.



But we are going to run 200 treadwear to compete in the Pro Touring events. Now if they made a PS2 in a 333 or 345 / 35 / 18.........

[carbuff]

Curious about the suspension / frame choice. Since you are going with AME components that are customized anyway, why didn't you start with one of their MAX-G Full Frame Chassis? Seems that would add strength to the frame of the car, and you've basically had to do most of the work anyway that it would take regarding the flooring...

[tones2SS]

Very nice. Looking nasty already!:thumbsup:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Curious about the suspension / frame choice. Since you are going with AME components that are customized anyway, why didn't you start with one of their MAX-G Full Frame Chassis? Seems that would add strength to the frame of the car, and you've basically had to do most of the work anyway that it would take regarding the flooring...

The idea is to use stuff that fits orignal cars. Not many will raise the floor, but many may use the front and rear clips. Many may raise the floor, but not use the clips. Were doing this fo educate as well as kick ass.

But agreed, we are getting very close to a full fab floor here.

[jski67]

Looks awesome Frank, I hope I get a ride someday!

I really like the sidewall height on that 345...would that tire be a good fit on a 67/68 like mine?

Jason

PS: I have lights and the starter cranks! Getting close...

[ProdigyCustoms]

I really like the sidewall height on that 345...would that tire be a good fit on a 67/68 like mine..


Your car is so begging for those tires! A brushed center wheel, those tires! Oh Yeah!

[DOOM]

Funny you should ask. Michael will extend the rockers to the bottom of the pinch weld next week. So there is no more ugly pinch weld.

Frank..... I would love to see how this is done! PLEASE post pics!!

[ProdigyCustoms]

I have not updated in a while. So here is where we are now.

We were busy this weekend, moving along pretty well. We got the rear firewall done and 4 link closeout in. We will build block off plates for the rear inner quarters to seal the passenger compartment from the trunk as tight as we can. We want to be sure if we back it into wall we have time to get out!

If you read the Firewall story in Super Chevy, you saw we are moving the seat back 4" which with the driver in the car makes a 1% front to rear weight balance difference which is a lot when your easing down to a 50 / 50 balance. One negative about moving the seat back 4" is a pet peeve John and I share which is a LONG steering column sticking out of a dash. We really want car to recognizable as a Camaro, hence the limited body mods and a stock dash is required, but since we are moving the seat back 4 inches, we would end up with that dreaded Funny Car steering column. So Michael spiced 4 inches into the dash top to move the dash back with the seat. Then IDidIt will make us a column with extra length under the dash, and the column will sit flush against the dash as it should. Michael was tacking in dash when I left today, but you really have to look at it to notice it has been done. I love it. I will get some pics of the dash installed in the car tomorrow.

So now if we can finish the tunnel, it can go to Johns for pre wire and plumb!

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0625.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0627.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

So we made some real progress. I just proofed the sheetmetal story (article 4). The AMD panels went on really well and are easily worth the extra pennies.

After Michael welded up the body we had Bob work on the roof to quarter seems, wheel lips (We beaded the wheel lips) and smooth the drip rails. The drip rails are only roughed in, but for roughed in drip rails they look pretty damn good.

So this weekend I will do some sheetmetal closeout work on the rear suspension, finish the driveshaft tunnel, get it off the jig, install the subframe and throw some rollers on it. And then send it to John for the pre wire and pre plumb. John is excited to get to work on it and I am excited he gets to work on it, LOL!

Enjoy

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0581.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0582.jpg

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0584.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

After sheetmetal we could not help but mock up the ride height with the drag radials off Michaels Monte Carlo.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/Unfair/DSC_0378.jpg
These are 345 / 35 / 18 Drag Radials

Viper and Vette guys are in the 8s on these so I think we will be OK

Forgeline is making us some one off 17 X 4 front skinny's.

[waynieZ]

It looks sweet Frank!

[tones2SS]

Looking good Frank!:thumbsup:

[70TWO NOVA]

any updates?

[jr2226]

any updates?

i know the camaro is down a friend of mine shop. Coast Chassis Desing in south Dayton Fla. getting a cage as of now

[ProdigyCustoms]

Chrome Moly Cage is done, and I have not seen it yet. John is hiding it from me, LOL! Seriously. I have been doing the thrash with multiple cars going to this auction next week and I have not had time to even check it out yet. John spent most of the week with the amazing tube benders at Coast Chassis shooting pics for the magazine article and stealing tricks.

A dozen people have asked why we did not build the cage? Yes, we absolutely could build the cage. But a man has to be one with his pipe bender to get things right the first attempt. Chrome Moly costing what it cost, John and I would have destroyed 5 pipes per pipe. And at the end of the day no matter what we did, it would only be half as good as the guys at coast have done, whom I truly think could do this blindfolded. Add to that the fact these guys know the rule books and know what is REALLY safe and what is fluff, and the decision was simple.

Big thanks to my old friend Ed Nash (jr2226) for introducing us to the great guys at Coast.

This WILL NOT be our last project with Coast. We have quickly developed quite a friendship and appreciation for one another talents.

[jr2226]

well a day late and a dollar short [thanks to this gen 2 ]lol. stopped down the chassis shop sat morning to see the cage and it was gone. well i will have to get up your way to see it .

[70TWO NOVA]

pics?....if they arent too top secret lol

[millertime179]

the fastest all around pro touring car on the planet? wait this has already been done hasn't it....red devil?:lol: just kidding guys project looks great looking forward to seeing it come together. keep the updates coming. :thumbsup:

[parsonsj]

I've re-done the area behind the gas pedal and am working on the next story about seats, steering column, and pedals. Here's a shot from tonight:

[parsonsj]

Here's the mockup of the steering column. New Borgeson aluminum U-joints and steering shaft will be here soon.

http://www.iimuchfabrication.com/uploads/IMG_1785.jpeg

[dave96dcm]

Where are the updates?

[ProdigyCustoms]

A few things slowed the process. We bought a new facility and moved in April so project took a back seat to the move and regular business. Instead of working on the car weekends and nights I have spent all my weekends and nights working on the new building getting it just the way I want it. Also writing and photographing a story for Super Chevy for every breath you take slows things WAY down. So far 9 stories are printed and 2 more are turned in and ready to publish, with 4 to 6 more stories after that. So when it is finished we will be somewhere between 14 and 17 stories? That will be somewhere close to 100 pages on Project Unfair!

Also made a major change to the engine and had to bring the engine build in house after Pat Musi had a nasty wreck which broke his vertebrate! He is going to be all good but has some recovery time and could not give the engine the personal attention it needed. That actually works out OK for us as our in house engine program is growing rapidly so we should be building the engine anyway. Now instead of 12 pages on our Pat Musi engine it will be 12 pages on the Prodigy Power engine.

A interesting side benefit of the delays is that some of the issues we were facing early on, now solutions have come with time. A big one was the oiling system for the RHS block. Having got one of the first production RHS blocks, there was no dry sump option that did not include a external pump which was causing major packaging and front drive issues. So for a while we had aborted the dry sump. But now we have found a solution and can run a internal dry sump system similar to the factory LS7 stuff which is WAY easier to package. So back to dry sump it is which is a real good thing with all the wet sump engine failures other builders have been facing.

So machine work on the engine is done and we are doing the engine article as we speak. I hope to have dyno numbers in the next couple weeks but have a dozen customer engines in the works right now so our toy will get done when we can.

We we started the project there was no commitment to be done at a specific time or event. None of our sponsor obligations have anything to do with being at any specific event or deadline. All goals and deadlines have been self imposed. With that said, while there is no self imposed deadline for completion, we do kinda want to be testing in the good weather before it gets to hot here in Florida. And while the weather is so nice now (brutal hot summer this year) it makes it a lot easier to get excited about working in the evenings on toys.

In the meantime my Unfair partner John has been using the extra time to dial in his driving skills. John moved up drastically in his HPDE classes and is now soloing and setting some of the fastest laps of the sessions with his ZO6 Corvette. All prepping himself to race this weapon we are building.

[Blake Foster]

WOW that is a lot to say at 3:06 in the morning!!!
bring it here with the weather that we get you will have PLENTY of time to finish it

:thumbsup:

[Trackman]

What ever happened to this project?

[parsonsj]

The project is dead, and Frank and I have reached an amicable divorce. I have no resources or investment in the car any more.

The car and its components still exist and are in Frank's possession. Any information about it at this time needs to come from him.

[waynieZ]

Sorry to hear that John.

[DOOM]

I wonder if Frank got his affairs in order? Was looking forward to see this car done..

[70TWO NOVA]

what happened to Frank?? Is Prodigy still around??

[GregWeld]

what happened to Frank?? Is Prodigy still around??



I could answer that....



WHO CARES!



:lol: :lol:

[Al Moreno]

I could answer that....



WHO CARES!



:lol: :lol:

:lmao:

I think he's working on getting his "UNFAIR" business practice in order :peepwall:

[Firebirdsteve]

^^^^^ :yes: :yes:

[GregWeld]

Personally I love Frank.... but you have to separate the person from what happened with the business.



And Al --- you hit the nail on the head!



I'm sure Parson's could tell us all some stories - that are better left untold.

[DOOM]

Personally I love Frank.... but you have to separate the person from what happened with the business.



And Al --- you hit the nail on the head!



I'm sure Parson's could tell us all some stories - that are better left untold.

Same here I love the guy. He never screwed me. But I agree Greg!

[tmadden]

I'm not sure you guys wanna rehash this but What happened to Prodigy? most of my parts came from him and never had a issue. referred a few guys and they had nothing but problems.

[parsonsj]

If I might suggest something... if folks want to have another Prodigy discussion, can we please start another thread?

:thankyou: