Battery cables...solder or crimp?

[DRJDVM's '69]

I'm planning on making some battery cables this weekend....never done it before.

I was planning on soldering the ends........ so do I use plain "regular" solder that you use for typical electrical stuff or is there something else I should use?

I was planning on doing the "place the end in the vise..... put some solder in....heat it up with a torch until it melts...shove the wire in" technique...... any tips?

I've also read on some boards that its better to crimp them than solder....heat etc melting the solder etc..... any opinions?

[SLO_Z28]

Its better to solder. Use 60/40 on stuff like that, and there is a noticeable quality difference between the cheap stuff and decent stuff, so stay away from Harbor Freight for the solder and wire. I personally like the insulator on the painless wiring kit for battery cables.

You have a lot more to worry about than the connection coming loose if the cable gets hot enough to melt solder, I couldn't give you an exact temperature, but it would be more than hot enough to burn even a good insulator.

[XcYZ]

I crimped mine. I borrowed a set of massive crimpers from work that has interchangeable jaw inserts. I figured if the crimps work with high power/ampacity cabling at work, it would be good enough for a car battery. :thumbsup:

[DRJDVM's '69]

The other issue I have with crimping them.... I dont have access to the proper type of crimper :)... I dont want to buy a single application tool for a probable one time deal....

[96z28ss]

is it for the camaro?
then it would be a 2 use tool cause you got a cuda also.
Just trying to help

[DRJDVM's '69]

No its for the Cuda.....
I'm hooking up the battery, so I can do some basic stuff, like run the air ride compressor..... I'm really only making the ground cable and a short positive lead hooked to a cut off switch.

I could do some very basic "temporary" stuff , but I figured I would at least make the final ground cable.

[garickman]

Do you have a NAPA parts store close by. I bought my 1 GA battery cable and lugs from napa and they crimped them for me.

[JRouche]

I have done both. Why?? No reason, just what happened. I think both are legit and secure, as long as they are done properly. And I dont know what properly is so take that with what its worth, nadda :)

For the cables I use welding cable. 4/0. What I like about it beside the very inexpensive cost is the fine strands. It winds through the turns in the body like laying hot butter. And with my battery in the trunk it made routing the cable easier. And 4/0 welding cable has a large amount of current handling. Which is more of a concern for voltage drop than heating with the long run. No voltage drop during engine cranking.

But.... My cable is routed inside the car from front to back, and I was very careful to NOT subject the wire to any sharp metal. I dont recommend using it outside the car unless you add additional armor to the cable for extreme areas, like in the engine bay and under the car. The rubber shield is not meant to be subjected to the harsh environments of the working sides of a car.

For a primary wire I really like the stuff that Napa sells. When you compare it to all the others you see the diff, some high quality cables. And the cost is not bad at all. I highly recommend their primary wire.

Ok... Ummm. Yeah!!! I got off track.. It was cable ends. Durr...

I didnt have the dies for the ends I wanted to crimp on the cables I had. So I made the dies. Basically a simple block of metal with a hole drilled in the center of it and then I cut the block in half. I didnt use a dimple on the inside of one half like I have seen on some dies. Mainly because I didnt want to put that much work into the die. But what I had going for me was alot of pressure. I have a 50 ton press. So I stripped the shield off the wire, it was standard primary wire not welding cable. And pressed the lug around the wire with alot of pressure. Not the full 50 tons, but pretty close. And the key is to use a lug that is matched for the wire. It will be a tight fit getting all the strands into the cup. But it should be tight. So I pressed the hell out of the joint, major force. It wasnt going anywhere.. Nice solid joint, I imagine it was so much force that the copper strands prolly deformed inside the cup of the lug to make an almost solid unit, not much air gap left.

But to be honest. I was just playing with tools, I wanted to squish something in the press. Not getting much work done.

These days Ill break out the propane torch and solder and solder the lugs on. I make sure to strip a large section of the insulation off. About 1.5 inches beyond the edge of the terminal when the wire is fully seated in the cup. And fully set the wire into the cup, push it as far as you can, (give a lil twist back and forth so the strands get deep into the crevice of the lug). That way Im not melting the insulation and drawing it into the solder joint. That will ruin the solder joint. Oh, and I let gravity help some. I cant get my setup so the wire and lug is vertical, but it is at about 45* from horizontal.

I play the flame at the base of the cup ( the side closest to the bolt hole on the lug) till it changes color from the nice copper to a dull orange and just starts to get some blueish purple color. Then its time to push the solder. Helps to have at least a foot or more of straight solder ready to go off the spool, dont want to be un-wrapping solder off the spool cause it was too short of a piece in the middle of filling the cup.. Fill the cup, stay off the heat till you start to feel a lil resistance. The idea is before you feel the resistance on the filler, wash the body of the lug with the flame, keep it hot so you get a nice melt but dont burn the solder, flux or lug. Keep filling the cup till its full and the wires that are exposed are starting the capillary action. Then stop, its done. You dont want to move the wire at this point. I use a double type of clamp. The vice holds the wire and the other clamp holds the lug. So Im not holding any of the pieces. Moving soldered pieces when they are chilling can cause a broken joint. Not so much in this case but thats a good rule to hold by anytime you are soldering any joint.

I like to triple coat the end made in heat shrink tubing. I use one piece that covers the entire exposed copper (the longish exposed wire) and all of the lug that isnt in contact with the post that its used on. Then a second piece just slightly longer to overlap the ends of the first piece. Then my final heat shrink tubing is the color of the cable to make it look nice and uniform.

Solly to go off on a tangent. Just the way things go with me :) JR

[Vegas69]

I put the cable lug in my vice and heated it with a mini torch and filled the cavity with solder. While it was still liquid I pushed the batter cable into the lug. Then I used shrink wrap. Crimping would be much easier and I'm sure just as effective. I just didn't have a clean way to do it.

[70rs]

I have done both. Why?? No reason, just what happened. I think both are legit and secure, as long as they are done properly. And I dont know what properly is so take that with what its worth, nadda :)

For the cables I use welding cable. 4/0. What I like about it beside the very inexpensive cost is the fine strands. It winds through the turns in the body like laying hot butter. And with my battery in the trunk it made routing the cable easier. And 4/0 welding cable has a large amount of current handling. Which is more of a concern for voltage drop than heating with the long run. No voltage drop during engine cranking.

But.... My cable is routed inside the car from front to back, and I was very careful to NOT subject the wire to any sharp metal. I dont recommend using it outside the car unless you add additional armor to the cable for extreme areas, like in the engine bay and under the car. The rubber shield is not meant to be subjected to the harsh environments of the working sides of a car.

For a primary wire I really like the stuff that Napa sells. When you compare it to all the others you see the diff, some high quality cables. And the cost is not bad at all. I highly recommend their primary wire.

Ok... Ummm. Yeah!!! I got off track.. It was cable ends. Durr...

I didnt have the dies for the ends I wanted to crimp on the cables I had. So I made the dies. Basically a simple block of metal with a hole drilled in the center of it and then I cut the block in half. I didnt use a dimple on the inside of one half like I have seen on some dies. Mainly because I didnt want to put that much work into the die. But what I had going for me was alot of pressure. I have a 50 ton press. So I stripped the shield off the wire, it was standard primary wire not welding cable. And pressed the lug around the wire with alot of pressure. Not the full 50 tons, but pretty close. And the key is to use a lug that is matched for the wire. It will be a tight fit getting all the strands into the cup. But it should be tight. So I pressed the hell out of the joint, major force. It wasnt going anywhere.. Nice solid joint, I imagine it was so much force that the copper strands prolly deformed inside the cup of the lug to make an almost solid unit, not much air gap left.

But to be honest. I was just playing with tools, I wanted to squish something in the press. Not getting much work done.

These days Ill break out the propane torch and solder and solder the lugs on. I make sure to strip a large section of the insulation off. About 1.5 inches beyond the edge of the terminal when the wire is fully seated in the cup. And fully set the wire into the cup, push it as far as you can, (give a lil twist back and forth so the strands get deep into the crevice of the lug). That way Im not melting the insulation and drawing it into the solder joint. That will ruin the solder joint. Oh, and I let gravity help some. I cant get my setup so the wire and lug is vertical, but it is at about 45* from horizontal.

I play the flame at the base of the cup ( the side closest to the bolt hole on the lug) till it changes color from the nice copper to a dull orange and just starts to get some blueish purple color. Then its time to push the solder. Helps to have at least a foot or more of straight solder ready to go off the spool, dont want to be un-wrapping solder off the spool cause it was too short of a piece in the middle of filling the cup.. Fill the cup, stay off the heat till you start to feel a lil resistance. The idea is before you feel the resistance on the filler, wash the body of the lug with the flame, keep it hot so you get a nice melt but dont burn the solder, flux or lug. Keep filling the cup till its full and the wires that are exposed are starting the capillary action. Then stop, its done. You dont want to move the wire at this point. I use a double type of clamp. The vice holds the wire and the other clamp holds the lug. So Im not holding any of the pieces. Moving soldered pieces when they are chilling can cause a broken joint. Not so much in this case but thats a good rule to hold by anytime you are soldering any joint.

I like to triple coat the end made in heat shrink tubing. I use one piece that covers the entire exposed copper (the longish exposed wire) and all of the lug that isnt in contact with the post that its used on. Then a second piece just slightly longer to overlap the ends of the first piece. Then my final heat shrink tubing is the color of the cable to make it look nice and uniform.

Solly to go off on a tangent. Just the way things go with me :) JR

^^Long version:D
I put the cable lug in my vice and heated it with a mini torch and filled the cavity with solder. While it was still liquid I pushed the batter cable into the lug. Then I used shrink wrap. Crimping would be much easier and I'm sure just as effective. I just didn't have a clean way to do it.

^^Short version:D

[elitecustombody]

I wouldn't do either, I would buy a distribution block,there are countless versions and alot of them are very nice pieces

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=distribution+block&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[MarkM66]

I beat flat with a hammer. :thumbsup:

[JRouche]

I put the cable lug in my vice and heated it with a mini torch and filled the cavity with solder. While it was still liquid I pushed the batter cable into the lug.


That is done and works. But the issue is you dont get any capillary action with the solder. You quickly cool the solder when you put the copper in and it is no longer liquid. It can be looked at as a cold solder joint. It might have the physical holding but the electrical qualities are reduced. Its a good idea to make a solid connector. One where the solder has completely filled the voids and creates a unit. Im not saying one method is correct. Just what I like to do. JR

[JRouche]

I wouldn't do either, I would buy a distribution block

But you still have to make or by a line with the lug on it. Say if your attaching to the battery. Or a stud on the frame for a ground. I love distribution blocks. But the type I use have a main stud that needs to have a lug on the wire to attach it. Some have slip in receivers for the wire end. Those are handy. No soldering or crimping. The clamp on the block makes the joint. But the majority of them have a stud that uses a ring terminal. JR

[JRouche]

I beat flat with a hammer. :thumbsup:

YEAH!!! Now thats a home grown terminal end. I like!! Some extra heat shrink is needed to keep the sharp edges of the terminal from cutting through. But heck. Why use heat shrink. A roll of electrical tape would do the same thing. I love yer idea. Any pics?? I love pics too :) I gotta see yer car dude.. Ill bet its pretty sharp :unibrow: JR

[elitecustombody]

But you still have to make or by a line with the lug on it. Say if your attaching to the battery. Or a stud on the frame for a ground. I love distribution blocks. But the type I use have a main stud that needs to have a lug on the wire to attach it. Some have slip in receivers for the wire end. Those are handy. No soldering or crimping. The clamp on the block makes the joint. But the majority of them have a stud that uses a ring terminal. JR

there is a big variety of nice aftermarket battery terminals,connectors that eliminate any crimping or soldering,but I guess cheap terminals ,hammer or a wise do the job too

[GregWeld]

I've found the best battery "terminals" in the CAR STEREO stores... They have them in a variety of styles - and some with additional capacity to add wires etc. They also have a variety of terminal blocks etc.

The pro wiring guys say DO NOT SOLDER... the reason for that is it can make the wire brittle when done improperly.

If you are going to solder (and I solder my battery cables only) I place the cable in the lug (if you don't have a crimper then just use a center punch or similar and tap the lug just enough to pinch it to hold it onto the wire) and hold the WIRE in the vise not the terminal - holding the terminal causes too much heat as the vise acts as a heat sink... Just hold the wire so the terminal is draped down so you can add heat to the lug - and then just add the solder. The minute the solder melts and is drawn (flows) into the cable - withdraw the heat. Too much heat is the cable killer.

Wish I'd have known you were going to do this - I'd have brought down my crimpers! :woot:

[GregWeld]

The other good source for one or two battery type parts - dist blocks etc - is your local West Marine. They have stuff for a variety of applications = such as cable bulk head fittings etc - for the boat world - which uses a ton of 12V big cable stuff... They also carry lots of STAINLESS STEEL dist blocks etc..

They're too expensive (M A R I N E) if you're going to buy more than one of something... then you can source the same or similar stuff elsewhere.

[MarkM66]

YEAH!!! Now thats a home grown terminal end. I like!! Some extra heat shrink is needed to keep the sharp edges of the terminal from cutting through. But heck. Why use heat shrink. A roll of electrical tape would do the same thing. I love yer idea. Any pics?? I love pics too :) I gotta see yer car dude.. Ill bet its pretty sharp :unibrow: JR

Hmmm... not sure if you're just kidding, or being an a-hole. :cool:

[GregWeld]

Hmmm... not sure if you're just kidding, or being an a-hole. :cool:

I'm thinking "both" of the above - Lat G just really isn't the website for "beating flat with a hammer" kind of work... ya think? :wow:

[MarkM66]

I'm thinking "both" of the above - Lat G just really isn't the website for "beating flat with a hammer" kind of work... ya think? :wow:

If 'ya think' it's really that much different then using a specific crimper.

Some things really don't need to be over complicated. That's how some get stuck in perpetual project mode. Ya know? ;)

My 'junk' seems to be starting just fine with my so rigged terminal end.

If you want to compare finished builds, I guess we can go there... But we should take that to PM's. Okay? :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Mark -- lighten up...

I have some finished builds -- But I don't think we need to compare. :cheers:

[JRouche]

Hmmm... not sure if you're just kidding, or being an a-hole. :cool:

Well I am an (*), but I was tongue-in-cheek with my comment :) Just kidding.....

I think a guy should do whatever he can on his car to get the job done. There are so many "right and wrong" ways of doing things that its not for me to tell a guy if he is right or wrong. Just not my place. I think its good to get alot of opinions here. That way the guy doing the work can decide what is within his capabilities. And my BFH gets used often around here :thumbsup: JR

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/HSM/hammer1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/HSM/hammer3.jpg

[JRouche]

The other good source for one or two battery type parts - dist blocks etc - is your local West Marine.

YUP!! West Marine has alot of goodies to get. I doooo like the marine grade items. Oh, and they have some good prices too. I bought a huge lot of 3M wire terminals from them. The type with the heat shrink cover. I think they have glue in them too cause it kinda squishes out the end a lil after heating. I like them for GP type crimp terminals. JR

[98ssnova]

YUP!! West Marine has alot of goodies to get. I doooo like the marine grade items. Oh, and they have some good prices too. I bought a huge lot of 3M wire terminals from them. The type with the heat shrink cover. I think they have glue in them too cause it kinda squishes out the end a lil after heating. I like them for GP type crimp terminals. JR

Can you send me a link to what you are talking about with the heat shrink attached to it i have been looking and cannot find them thanks. sorry to thread jack

[JRouche]

Can you send me a link to what you are talking about with the heat shrink attached to it i have been looking and cannot find them thanks. sorry to thread jack

Not from west marine but the same 3M terminals and a decent price. JR Oh, and they take ALOT of heat to start shrinking. At first I thought I got ripped, regular terminals. But kept the heat from my really hot heat gun on the terminal and sure enough it started to shrink. And you can tell when they are done because the wire shield under the heat shrink becomes more visible as the glue melts and gets liquid. Oh, and on a side note. I wanted to test the strength of the glue and its holding strength to the wire. So I did one on a scrap piece of wire. Let it cool completely (actually over night, had other things to do) and gripped the terminal in the vice, just the metal section and plastic, not the wire. Gripped the wire end in some vice grips. And started to tug. Holy cow!!! I couldnt pull the wire out of the crimped terminal with my body leaning away from the vice. I actually couldnt pull the wire out. Testament to some hot melt glue for helping to hold it all together. Dont do that with crimp only terminals. The wire will slip the terminal and you will end up on the floor. And it prolly helps a lil on the sealing part too. But not as well as a Weather Pack. If I could afford to do Weather Pack terminals everywhere then I would. But for GP type terminals the 3M are the best of those type of crimp terminals IMO.. JR
http://cgi.ebay.com/3M-Heat-Shrink-Wire-Terminals-Kit-ALL-TYPES-480-pcs_W0QQitemZ260342817725QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item3c9da423bd

[GregWeld]

Those are the only butt connectors I use... heat shrink and glued. I get them at my local electronics store in packs of 50 or 100 for about 1/3 what West Marine charges...

3M are the best - avoid the chinese versions.

[rwhite692]

The other issue I have with crimping them.... I dont have access to the proper type of crimper :)... I dont want to buy a single application tool for a probable one time deal....

Ned- yes you do...I have the large battery cable terminal crimping tool. The one that looks like a large pair of bolt cutters.

[AAW]

The attached link has an inexpensive battery crimping tool that you can use in a bench vice. It also lists complete cable kits and a side post build-a-battery kit. I do recommend solder in addition to a good crimp.

http://www.americanautowire.com/catalogs/AAW_sections/AAW09_BatteryCable&Access.pdf

Tim

[GregWeld]

The attached link has an inexpensive battery crimping tool that you can use in a bench vice. It also lists complete cable kits and a side post build-a-battery kit. I do recommend solder in addition to a good crimp.

http://www.americanautowire.com/catalogs/AAW_sections/AAW09_BatteryCable&Access.pdf

Tim

TIM --

I'll bet you get that soldering question a lot huh? I know I do. It's always a 'debate'. I solder my big lug battery stuff - but nothing else. The problem comes with soldering - IMHO - is the person doing the work.... if they overheat the copper it gets brittle. So far.. I've seen very few people that can solder correctly. It's like welding - yeah they can weld. Which means they can get two pieces of metal to stick together... but they really can't WELD... as in - get it to stay square - flat - have penetration - and pass a bend test.... :rofl: