questions about aeromotive a-1000 pump lines

[yamadog]

Fella's- I'm starting to plumb my fuel system in my 67 Camaro. I'm using the A-1000 pump, aeromotive filter, and return style regulator on a carb'ed system. I am also using my stock gas tank with a RobbMc 1/2 inch pickup. I know the a-1000 is supposed to be run with -10 lines on the feed side and -8 on the return. Will there be any real problem running -8 on both sides, as this is the size of the pick up tube in the tank? I can go with -10 once off the pick up, but will it (the pick up tube itself) be a restricion? Thanks for any help. Jason

[Sti_Guy]

That short of a pickup tube should be fine in 8an.

[speedjohnston]

It depends on the volume of fuel you are going to need. It will be a restriction. When in doubt, call the manufacturer. :cheers:

[Blown353]

Going too small on the pump inlet will cause cavitation which will ruin the pump very quickly.

Aeromotive recommends a -10 inlet for a reason... use 5/8" minimum ID (-10) tubing or hose between the pump inlet and the fuel supply.

Reducing to -8 on the outlet is fine.

[GregWeld]

I'm going to "ASSume" you're running an external pump... these pumps usually require a "flooded head" -- meaning that the fuel needs to be flowing to the pump - since they do not "suck" fuel - they only push it...

So you're asking this pump to draw fuel UP the internal pickup in the tank?

If that's the case -- I would really check that installation with Aeromotive.

[GregWeld]

I went to Aeromotive and copied this off their instructions for your A1000 pump.

Two things should jump out at you -- that they really don't recommend the use of a fuel pick up tube - telling you that this will cause problems - and wear out the pump quicker etc.


Mount pump level or lower and as close to the bottom of the tank as possible. If you are using a stock fuel tank, install a reservoir sump in the bottom-rear of your fuel tank. Exercise extreme caution and follow all manufacturers’
recommendations when installing a reservoir sump. (Sump part # 15650)
• Tank/Fuel cell must have at least a 1⁄2” tank vent.
• If you choose not to install a reservoir sump, then you must install a high flow capacity fuel tank pickup (1/2” to 5/8” inner tube diameter). (Installing pickup instead of a reservoir sump may shorten the fuel pump life and cause drivability problems. When using a pickup, you should maintain at least 1⁄2 tank of fuel in the vehicle at all times, to avoid possible engine &/or fuel pump damage.)

[waynieZ]

Weldon pumps can be used with a pickup tube setup. They can be mounted above the tank.

[yamadog]

Well I did mount the pump lower than the bottom of the pickup point so it should gravity feed ok I think. I guess I was more worried about the pump over heating as fuel is used to cool the pump. I am not concerned about fuel volume for the motor as this pump is way overkill for my needs, but if it cant get enough volume to cool pulling through a 1/2 pickup, no bueno..... Jason

[Vegas69]

I have to ask why you went with that monster pump if you only have an 8an feed line? How much horsepower do you have? You may be better off with a Mallory 140 or similar pump.

[GregWeld]

Todd --

Remember the whole fuel pump discussion we had at SEMA.... and the "over worked - over heated" too large of a fuel pump...

I didn't want to throw that out at this thread - because I'm not knowledgeable enough about it. But, I would think this is a pump that is FAR too large for the application (this pump goes for 1000 HP cars!)...

Our discussion there, with Charley, Frank, and Mark was Fuel injected applications -- and Jason is running a carb so I would think that there is less work being performed with FAR lower pressures used in a carb app... So maybe they don't work nearly as hard - to make 6 or 7 lbs of pressure vs the 40 or 50 lbs in high horse EFI motors...

JASON -- you'd actually be surprised at how "little" the EFI pumps in factory applications are. Granted they're "in tank" pumps - flooded head etc - but they're really not very large - and they're making way more pressure than what you're going to need. Are you sure you want to use this pump?

[yamadog]

Guys I appreciate the help here. A little history- When Summit racing first opened in Nevada, I got a job there as I heard they gave employees parts at cost. That was like 11 years ago. I only worked there for a couple of years but in that time I bought alot of parts for a bunch of cars I had. Most of wich I never got aroung to installing. The a-1000 pump came out just before I quit working for summit. My reasoning at the time was that if I put in a too big pump, no mater what direction I went with the car I would never have to upgrade the fuel system again. Well 10 years later, two kids, a wife......I just want to get my Camaro back on the road. It hasn't moved off of the jack stands in about 8 years. Now I am trying to put this together with virtually no money, because I sure don't have extra right now. Just install all the parts I bought so long ago. I actually have a cheap alum. cell (with -10 pickup), but now I don't want to kill the trunk space. Then I saw the RobMc 1/2 pickup and thought it would be perfect. Maybe I should realy consider using the cell.....Thanks again and please keep the conversation and ideas comming. Jason

[GregWeld]

Jason --

All good reasoning. Kids and a wife can kill a perfectly good car build!! :rofl:

Aeromotive makes a fuel pump controller - runs off the tach if I remember correctly - and varies the pump speed to match the motor - so you're not pumping fuel at idle - the same as when you're WOT.

I know you said "no money" but it costs money to be broken down on the hiway somewhere too... so maybe this is something you might want to consider looking into.

The problem that I see with using the pickup tube style tank - with the external mounted pump --- YOU CAN'T GO BELOW HALF A TANK.... that could be pretty inconvenient - and or - going up a long grade depending on the location of the pickup (which I would hope is at the rear of the tank).

You might see what it would run to drop the tank out and have a "sump" installed.. (I'm assuming you don't/can't do this yourself). That would get you the flooded head - the pump wants. And as an added benefit - get you to be able to dip down under that half tank of fuel. I'm assuming also that you're using a RETURN style regulator? If so - this would give you the chance to put in a return line bung - or use the existing pickup tube as the return line connection.


BTW -- My comments are not to "hurt" or make fun of what you are doing - rather = We're discussing your situation and trying to help you so you don't have problems. Talking out loud so to speak...

[Vegas69]

I agree Greg, excess fuel delivery makes heat. Sumping it would work and I do believe those pumps can be submerged a well. You could cut open the tank and use some bungs or bulkheads. The sump is probably the easiest solution however. I imagine you could sell that pump for good coin and use one better suited for your application. A good mechanical pump would work perfect with this tank and sender. Doing something twice ALWAYS costs at least twice as much.

[yamadog]

OK, after putting more thought into it (with prodding from you guys more in the know than me) I think I'm gunna forgo the trunk space and use my aluminum cell. It just solves all the plumbing issues. Thanks for the help..... And Greg- Talk out loud all you want.....not going to hurt my feelings any. Thanks, Jason

[Vegas69]

That solves your sump problem, but not overheating your pump and fuel. You never did tell us how much power you are feeding?

[yamadog]

Well.....motor is a sbc, maybe 450hp if I'm lucky. please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the fuel cool the pump? So regardless of power output shouldn't the correct size lines (both feed and return) keep the pump cool? Or did we just open up another can of worms?.....Jason

[Vegas69]

When you run a bypass regulator, every ounce of fuel you return to the sump creates friction and thus heat. I hate to see you do all this work and have problems. You said you're tight on funds and a quality mechanical pump and your current setup will do the job all day long. Plumbing in a A1000 is going to cost you some bucks in fittings, hose, and regulators. You don't need anthing larger than a 3/8 line to feed that motor. Something as simple as this will work.... http://www.jegs.com/p/Holley/Holley-110-GPH-Fuel-Pumps/745057/10002/-1 Put a filter on the carb side and be done. Of course I'd do my due diligence on pumps and make sure you can run a standard pump push rod vs. bronze tipped. Just thinking you could spend $200-$250 vs easily $750 on pre filter, AN fittings, an hose, hard line, relays, blah blah blah.... You could always have a do over later with this little fundage invested and have more reliability in my opinion.

[Sti_Guy]

My solution to a similar issue, was to do a surge tank, we have a Walbro in tank pumping up to the surge tank an the 1000 feeding from that.

[GregWeld]

I kind of agree with Todd --- it sounds like you're making a "low cost" buy (the A1000) - into an expensive overkill...

A good quality mechanical fuel pump - use the existing tank - feed lines - and you've got more than enough fuel system. Sell the A1000 and buy everything you need and have $$ left over.

[Sti_Guy]

I kind of agree with Todd --- it sounds like you're making a "low cost" buy (the A1000) - into an expensive overkill...

A good quality mechanical fuel pump - use the existing tank - feed lines - and you've got more than enough fuel system. Sell the A1000 and buy everything you need and have $$ left over.

After getting more info and seeing the options I would also go to a mechanical pump. But i do remember the guy at aeromotive saying these pumps would suck a given distance and be fine. Id just call and make sure. The mechanical pump would be a simpler solution for sure.

[Vegas69]

Absolutely beautiful work STI, but that cost you a fortune and we both know it. :unibrow:

[yamadog]

Man this is getting good......Ok, Let me give ALL my info to guys. I'll do my best to leave out no details. Cause so far in this conversation I have listened to reason and changed my mind about ten times! I have; a1000 pump, return style two port regulator, filter (all Aeromotive) all the -8 lines and fittings I need, most of the -10 stuff (minus about 100$ in fittings and thats just a small handful, -10 stuff is spendy!) 1/2 pick up for stock tank, alum. cell with -10 fittings, and a plate style nitrous kit to install (up to 250hp). I am concerned about having enough fuel for the nitrous kit with a mechaical pump. Now you guys are talking me into running a mechanical pump with all 1/2 lines. I COULD sell the big pump and related hradware to fund other parts of the car. Does your guys' educated opinion stay the same? As in mechaincal pump and be done? Thansk guys, Jason

[GregWeld]

Uh =====

You just FAILED to mention the giggle juice in your other posts... :rolleyes:

Now I'll have to bow out, because I've never done the gas thing except at the dentist...

Surely the "kit" you got for the power adder has some "opinion" or guidance?

[Sti_Guy]

Wanted to follow up i asked on my call today with an aeromotive tech, about this situation, he said the pump pulls roughly 20in of vacuum and would work given you have at least a 1/2" but better a 5/8ths pickup. However the kicker will be the fuel temp in the vacuum at the pump inlet possibly causing cavitation sooner then it would normally.

[GregWeld]

Right -- because VACUUM in FUEL is the OPPOSITE of PRESSURE in a radiator -- vacuum in fuel will cause it to "boil" (bubbles)... Which is why they like a flooded (no vacuum required) head. The "simple" solution to this is of course - to draw fuel from the bottom of the tank -- and from the REAR of the tank - so that going up hill on a low tank - will cover the fuel outlet with fuel... you can COAST downhill (LOL). And a hard launch will, of course, push the fuel to the rear.

Funny about the little things that people don't think about - but back in the day when I traveled with a funny car -- I learned about a 2 G launch - and how hard the pump has to work in order just to overcome that force! Something you just wouldn't think about ordinarily... LOL.... which is why the fuel tank was in front of the motor... Not sure how they handle that with todays cars - and I'm certain they launch WAY harder now-days!