The Cormaro......

[Jim Nilsen]

I have been struggling with an ACCEL DFI system for a long long time and have finally made it over the hump, and it will rev up like it is supposed to.

ACCEL finally stepped up to the plate last December and delivered on the promise to make it right. I can finally say good things about them after today.

I almost gave up more than once and looking back I still wonder how I did it.

I am going to start posting more here and if I get off my butt with my camera I hope to get things together to get a feature going.

For those who know everything from Pro-Touring that has gone on it's been a long time, but for those who keep themselves here I hope you enjoy what is to come.

[GregWeld]

Jim --

I was an "early" adopter of the Accel system.... and had NOTHING BUT trouble with their stuff --- failed dual sync distributors -- the WORST tech help in the entire world... and a whole bunch of IDIOTS recommended as "trained" Accel tuners...

They have upgraded their system (I own two of their Gen 7 ECMS - ONE as a back up for when the other POS fails)... I've rewired the DUAL SYNC to get rid of their too stiff / too thin connections... and found a great tuner in Bob Ream (I had to tow to Phoenix to get 'er done right!)... at Imagine Injection.

I wil say - once it's right - it works like a champ. In fact - just today - I fired off the Nomad without touching the gas pedal - and it's been sitting for 3 months or so (on a battery tender)... and just purred. So would I do it all again -- OH HELL YEAH... but next time -- I'll give FAST my business.

[waynieZ]

Jim glad to hear its finnally straightened out. Now all you need is some 70 degree weather to drive it in. lol

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim glad to hear its finnally straightened out. Now all you need is some 70 degree weather to drive it in. lol


I'll take 45 degrees and clear roads as soon as it gets here. I was driving up until Dec. 2nd and 38 degrees when I went for the tune at Schwartz Performance. The car creates enough heat and is air tight enough to be comfortable in a good coat. All with no heater and the vent windows can keep the frost off with no problem as I learned 30 years ago when the heater went out in the middle of winter in my other 67.

I'm still working on a defroster setup that will solve my clear windshield problem. I just don't want it to weigh anything which is the problem.

70 degrees would be a day to skip off work and go looking for everyone I can to go for a ride. I don't know too many friends that like the colder ride,lol.

Thanks for the encouragement, it just snowed another 8" and is drifting everywhere.

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim --

I was an "early" adopter of the Accel system.... and had NOTHING BUT trouble with their stuff --- failed dual sync distributors -- the WORST tech help in the entire world... and a whole bunch of IDIOTS recommended as "trained" Accel tuners...

They have upgraded their system (I own two of their Gen 7 ECMS - ONE as a back up for when the other POS fails)... I've rewired the DUAL SYNC to get rid of their too stiff / too thin connections... and found a great tuner in Bob Ream (I had to tow to Phoenix to get 'er done right!)... at Imagine Injection.

I wil say - once it's right - it works like a champ. In fact - just today - I fired off the Nomad without touching the gas pedal - and it's been sitting for 3 months or so (on a battery tender)... and just purred. So would I do it all again -- OH HELL YEAH... but next time -- I'll give FAST my business.

I am looking to get a wide band o2 setup to put on and was wondering if what you think is the best one that will work for the $$$$ from your experience or research?

[Bow Tie 67]

Jim,

The NGK / AFX is the most accurate when used with the upgraded NTK sensor.

Here is a link to one: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/582

[waynieZ]

Jim that snow is headed my way now, but I don't have the car so its not too bad. I'll just stay in the house nice and warm.

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim,

The NGK / AFX is the most accurate when used with the upgraded NTK sensor.

Here is a link to one: http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/products_id/582


Thanks Matt, I like the accuracy of that unit and almost bought it. I called Jeff Jasiek and asked about it and he too likes the NTK for what it can do but he told me that the accel won't interface with it and I could only use it as a tuning tool and the accel unti I found for the same price today ( other prices were from 500 to 700)and it will interface and control the DFI unit.

I am finding that I will be able to get the DFI to do what I want if I have the wideband. Learning to tune is something that I had envisioned to do from the start.

You have a package coming and it should be there by sat.


Thanks for the research. Look forward to getting together soon!

[Jim Nilsen]

I got my wideband today, it got here in 2 days instead of the 4-7 they said.

Now I have to get it in this weekend. I was playing around with the tune last night before I went to bed and couldn't fire it up until this afternoon. It is a bit better once it gets warmed up. I basically was playing around with the 3d ve table to get it more blended.

I am looking forward to being able to see the actual A/F ratio instead of the hego voltage.

I hope the install goes well.

[GregWeld]

Hope it does too Jim!!

Remember that you have toggle settings for the O2 sensors...

There is also a "range" of fuel add and subtract that you can set...

[Efi69Cam]

Jim --

I was an "early" adopter of the Accel system.... and had NOTHING BUT trouble with their stuff --- failed dual sync distributors -- the WORST tech help in the entire world... and a whole bunch of IDIOTS recommended as "trained" Accel tuners...

They have upgraded their system (I own two of their Gen 7 ECMS - ONE as a back up for when the other POS fails)... I've rewired the DUAL SYNC to get rid of their too stiff / too thin connections... and found a great tuner in Bob Ream (I had to tow to Phoenix to get 'er done right!)... at Imagine Injection.

I wil say - once it's right - it works like a champ. In fact - just today - I fired off the Nomad without touching the gas pedal - and it's been sitting for 3 months or so (on a battery tender)... and just purred. So would I do it all again -- OH HELL YEAH... but next time -- I'll give FAST my business.



Those stiff wires coming out the dual sync have caused me concern as well. What did you use to replace them? Was desoldering on the PCB in the dist a problem?

I want to get rid of those wires and the rube goldberg adapter harness.

Thanks.

[GregWeld]

Jim --

You need a "desoldering" sucker... Seriously -- it is a small manual spring loaded tool with a sucking action... you "load" the slide lock - heat the solder and flip the slide lock with gives a quick "slurp" of vacuum... and out the solder comes.

You could also take this to a high tech automotive (efi) place and they would probably replace those poopie stiff wires...

The Rube Goldberg "ends" are GM WEATHERPACK and are purposely "flipped" so you can't accidently plug the CAM signal into the wrong input to the EFI...

I made my leads about 4" longer -- so I could actually plug them in BEFORE stabbing the distributor... made life much easier.

[Efi69Cam]

Jim --

You need a "desoldering" sucker... Seriously -- it is a small manual spring loaded tool with a sucking action... you "load" the slide lock - heat the solder and flip the slide lock with gives a quick "slurp" of vacuum... and out the solder comes.

You could also take this to a high tech automotive (efi) place and they would probably replace those poopie stiff wires...

The Rube Goldberg "ends" are GM WEATHERPACK and are purposely "flipped" so you can't accidently plug the CAM signal into the wrong input to the EFI...

I made my leads about 4" longer -- so I could actually plug them in BEFORE stabbing the distributor... made life much easier.


Thanks for the info!

Looks like I need one of those solder suckers.

Seems to me that if the distributor had the 8 pin connector to match the MWH ignition connector there would be no chance of swapping them and that would be 2 less connectors floating around.

Did you use a shielded cable?

[GregWeld]

Yes --- and since the signal is "weak" you should used shielded -- just of a higher quality than these units were born with!

I agree -- an 8 pin single connection would be handy. Not sure why they did it this way. I never researched it... I just fixed the poor wiring.

Solder sucker (desoldering tools) are available almost anywhere they sell electronic supplies - soldering irons etc.... but not at Home Depot etc... you've got to get a little more upscale than that!!

A quick search for "desoldering tool" on Amazon had a couple of pages of 'em - from $5 versions to a couple hundred dollar "desoldering STATION" -- now that is fancy! You could go into the business!! :rofl:

[Jim Nilsen]

I think the main reason for the 2 plugs was to keep the possiblity of any interferance bewteen the 2 signals. Putting the shielded wires in the same connector places them closer than might be wanted,considering the distance of most connectors at the terminal ends is not very far and there is no shielding at the very end where it connects to the terminal. All you would have to do is put them next to each other and you have trouble brewing. Plus if the guy putting the harness together has 2 plugs he has less of a chance to get them in the wrong holes. I know they had problems with that with 2 plugs !!!!

The way the harness was built to begin with had a lot to be desired. i actually pulled the loom apart and pulled back all of the nitrous and other stuff that went to the engine bay and came back in for no other reason than to make it easy if you put the ecu in thengine bay or had a front mount battery. I have half the amount of wires going thru my fire wall and only one hole instead of the two grommets they provided. I pulled all of the connectors thru and connected up what was needed and then pulled the excess back into the car. This made it really tidy under the hood.

Now I have to find room for more with the new wideband but it to is going inside the car to keep most of the wires out of the engine bay.

I just wish they would stop putting the connectors on the ends so you wouldn't have to frill as big of a hole and a small grommet would suffice. I will probably pull them out of the connector and do it that way anyway. The other thing that was messed up on my gen7 harness was that the wires for the cam and crank + - wires were in backwards to start with.

When I am done it looks nice but it is a lot of work. The tuner that cam to help me the first time couldn't believe how much better it looked and was confused when I was disconnecting the the EST wire from inside and that it never went thru the firewall. It goes right straight to the 6A box to the ecu inside and I have a bullet connector right at the fuse panel labeled and easy to get to.

[Jim Nilsen]

Do I have to hook up the wires for the speed control to get the wideband to work correctly or can I just leave them alone and I just won't have the speedometer part of the screen work? What the heck does speed have to do with the A/F ratios anyway? Seemed kind of wierd to me to all of a sudden have as many gauges in the accel programs as I have on my dash?

[GregWeld]

Do I have to hook up the wires for the speed control to get the wideband to work correctly or can I just leave them alone and I just won't have the speedometer part of the screen work? What the heck does speed have to do with the A/F ratios anyway? Seemed kind of wierd to me to all of a sudden have as many gauges in the accel programs as I have on my dash?


Jim --- Going from pure memory here -- you only need the speed signal (from the trans) if you were going to OPERATE the torque convertor lock up from the ECM. There is a "program" that is throttle and percentage based etc. Again - just going from memory - too lazy to go out to the shed and get that laptop that has all the info on it for Gen 7 (Windows laptop AKA DOOR STOP --- I use Apple for my daily fun).

I agree TOTALLY on the "why terminate the ends" -- but they try to make this stuff idiot proof - and in so doing - just make more work for those that are perfectly happy "hot rodding" their system. I understand it - but I don't have to like it.

I have a "set" of "pushy tools" (my name for them) that are used in the various new style connections - in order to "release" the pins from the connections - maintaining the pin on the wire.... I also have a wide variety of "stock" to re-terminate this stuff (I LOVE GM Weatherpack stuff!)... the problem with these guys - is they don't LABEL their looms.... you'd think it would be so easy for them to actually label each run with what it is... but NO..... so it's easy to get them a "pin out" or mixed up.... then you have a REAL MESS on your hands going over every single wire and it's location etc.... That makes my head spin just thinking of that nightmare!

SPEARTECH makes a nice wire harness for the LS computers (I have one for the '55 I'm doing)... very nice stuff - super simple - nothing extra if you don't want it.... Not sure they make - or would make up - a harness for "the other guys" stuff such as FAST or ACCEL.

[Jim Nilsen]

Now I understand their reasoning with the speedometer. When you have a stick who cares ,right!!! Lock up in every gear !!!!

I am still trying to find the best place to put another box. I have 3 places to put it it and each one has its advantages and its drawbacks but that's packaging for ya.

The rest of the install seems fairly straight forward. The instructions as usual suck the big one. That's what friends and tuners are for,lol.

I fortunately have waited to do some things in the interior that will have to be removed agian to do the install so I can do both at the same time fortunately. I'll be glad when the carpet goes down because that is the last step before it is really show time for the people who care about carpet. I can bet Ron Schwarz would never care,:rofl:

I am looking forward to going to Road America on the 17th and 18th and will be there with the Cormaro even if it is in limp mode,lol. Snow excepted. Please no SNOW.

:cheers:

[David Pozzi]

Jim,
I'm so glad to see you posting about tuning instead of about welding! :thumbsup:

Just an FYI. The One Lap Camaro has the MEFI4B system, Wideband was added, but even though the ECM can use the signal you have to add another MFR's add on box same as you are doing to run the heater and produce a signal the ECM can read.

Anyway, we were having terrible trouble with the TPS signal when trying to dyno tune the system, even with engine stopped, key on, the TPS voltage was jumping around and the dyno operator said he couldn't tune it that way.

What we found was the Wideband controller was grounded to the same point as the ECM and it was causing the ECM ground voltage to be biased up and down like crazy.

I would try and ground your wideband somewhere else just in case.
David

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim,
I'm so glad to see you posting about tuning instead of about welding! :thumbsup:

Just an FYI. The One Lap Camaro has the MEFI4B system, Wideband was added, but even though the ECM can use the signal you have to add another MFR's add on box same as you are doing to run the heater and produce a signal the ECM can read.

Anyway, we were having terrible trouble with the TPS signal when trying to dyno tune the system, even with engine stopped, key on, the TPS voltage was jumping around and the dyno operator said he couldn't tune it that way.

What we found was the Wideband controller was grounded to the same point as the ECM and it was causing the ECM ground voltage to be biased up and down like crazy.

I would try and ground your wideband somewhere else just in case.
David


Thanks for the tip. I have already had enough troubles with the system and just when I get it going I surely don't need to go right back into more problems.

It's more fun to tune than to weld too. The sound of a running car has been a long time coming. I have to weld in the new O2 bung though ,so there we go back to welding,lol Fortunately I am replacing my collector reducers for better flow and gasket seal so I can do both jobs at once.

Are you coming to the Motorstate Challenge again this year? The ride in Penny was GREAT FUN and it is always nice to talk about everything with you.

[Efi69Cam]

Thanks for the tip. I have already had enough troubles with the system and just when I get it going I surely don't need to go right back into more problems.

It's more fun to tune than to weld too. The sound of a running car has been a long time coming. I have to weld in the new O2 bung though ,so there we go back to welding,lol Fortunately I am replacing my collector reducers for better flow and gasket seal so I can do both jobs at once.

Are you coming to the Motorstate Challenge again this year? The ride in Penny was GREAT FUN and it is always nice to talk about everything with you.

On the DFI wideband controller, if you have the new one that uses the NGK sensors (looks like a mini-me of the Gen 7) the only reason to use the speed sensor input is if you want a speed dependent control or for the data-logging functions.

[Jim Nilsen]

On the DFI wideband controller, if you have the new one that uses the NGK sensors (looks like a mini-me of the Gen 7) the only reason to use the speed sensor input is if you want a speed dependent control or for the data-logging functions.


Thanks for that info.I just have the single Bosch sensor to start with.

I have my racepak for data logging and would probably never use the data logging from the Accel, maybe when I get down the road I might change my mind but after it gets tuned I don't see me hooking a laptop to it unless I hit the drag strip and mess with a tune for that.

I am feeling like I am back at school with all of the programming I am learning.
It makes my head spin when I go too fast trying to learn it all. Setting stuff up gets confusing enough, especially when things are going wrong. I have learned a lot from things going wrong but man it gets old quick.

I was tuning a bit today and it was the first time I put the pedal to the floor quickly and it reved up to 6 k so fast I couldn't get my foot back up before it hit the rev limiter from what I could tell. It sounded good and strong. I am ready to get out and put the load on it ASAP.:drive:

:cheers:

[waynieZ]

I think the only one against you now is Mother Nature. I'm so sick of snow already! I know you feel the same.

[David Pozzi]

I'm planning on going to Motor State, but this year is going to be pretty busy, hope I can keep up! :thumbsup:

[Jim Nilsen]

I kept looking at the harness from Accel and looking at the firewall and seeing where and what I want to go thru for wiring and finally decided to call O'Reily's and see if they had some weatherpac terminal removing tools available. Low and behold they told me they could have them for me tomorrow
morning for just $16 and it is the complete set needed to to all of the types of connectors. I just couldn't see fighting with them to do the job since I am messing with an important part of the system and want to save putting another hole in the firewall.

If it all works out I will be able to pull the old hego wire back in the cabin and at the same time pull the new eugo wire in with them making all of the connectors inside the car. It will be a bit harder to change out the O2 sensor later if needed but I will have the tool to do it with or I can push the uego wires back out where the hego wires went thru and put the connector back outside. Decisions decisions.

Why Accel didn't just make it so there was a plug for the wideband on the main harness to begin with is still a mystery to me, they had a plug for damn near everything else I would never use.

With the way the engine wants to run I think I am going to be glad I spent the money for the widebands ability to have better control. It seems to really like 12.5 to 13 a/f to get going really crisp according to the tables.

I keep saving my tunes everytime I mess with it so when I get out on the road I can pull over and put one in and see how it runs compared to the other and hopefully I can mix the best areas together and move along faster with it once we put it under load.

The one thing that gets me is that the idle will be spot on to the idle settings in idle program one minute and then without doing anything and the temp staying the same rpm will go down? I keep thinking it could be injector decay because of voltage but it happens above 13 volts which I thought injector decay didn't start until it got below 12.5 volts. I may need to change my alternator crank pulley to increase my voltage at 900 to 1000 rpm idle to the 14.1 I get at 1200 rpm. It is around 13 volts at 1000 rpm. anyone else ever have this happen? Or will it more than likely just be I need to get a better idle tune to get it to stabilize?

I can only hope it is easier to know with the wideband installed?

I have my old 9 pin serial port/XP Pro laptop up and working again and it likes the serial port and it also works with the usb. The wideband will have to go into one and the ecu in the other to tune it so I hope it can keep up.
:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

I'm planning on going to Motor State, but this year is going to be pretty busy, hope I can keep up! :thumbsup:

If you are going to be driving Penny I think you will have no trouble keeping up:lol:

See you there :cheers:

[GregWeld]

Jim --


It's not the A/F ratio that needs the tuning on the Accel Gen 7 --- you set the AF for what you want (or think) the motor needs (to get started tunning) and then you set the VE to get the ACTUAL A/F to match the desired A/F you set at that particular cell....

Now -- I can tell you that there are guys on here that REALLY know this stuff - so I'm just trying to throw you a bone here... "food for thought" really...

So lets say it's idling - at 750 rpms - and you want the AF to be 14.1 at idle...

You find the cell where it's idling - (or maybe it's hunting in 4 cells) - select those 4 cells - put in your 14.1 AF -- then go to the VE table and select those same 4 cells and start tunning those VE's until the actual and desired MATCH.

Now -- if the motor is too lean at 14.1 - just change the AF number to 13.5 or whatever - until the motor "Likes" the AF -- but the VE's won't change much regardless of the AF number selected. Of course you can find the AF the motor likes - get that going right - and then come back and 'tweak' the VE's - bringing them in so she'll idle (Watch your Map for best "vacuum" - no different than a carb!) and your Wide Band O2 has hardly any "work" to do... You really do not want the O2 to do much --- it's there for when it's needed -- but adding or subtracting 5% or LESS would be correct... At idle -- it shouldn't be adding or subtracting ANYTHING if the VE's are right.

Now -- I may be telling you stuff you already know... and if that's the case - then just skip over my posts... :rofl:

[GregWeld]

When I say the motor "likes" the AF -- and the VE's are right or very close - The RPMS and the Vacuum should both "INCREASE" (at idle) just like tuning a carb - you set your idle mixture using your tach and vacuum gauge - you know you have 'em right when you achieve the highest RPMs and highest vacuum reading...

So watch those two when you're "tuning" the AF...

No load idle - should be able to get fairly 'lean' on the AF... but I don't know what motor you're running or cam etc... so the numbers I'm throwing out are just that - numbers.

[Jim Nilsen]

When I say the motor "likes" the AF -- and the VE's are right or very close - The RPMS and the Vacuum should both "INCREASE" (at idle) just like tuning a carb - you set your idle mixture using your tach and vacuum gauge - you know you have 'em right when you achieve the highest RPMs and highest vacuum reading...

So watch those two when you're "tuning" the AF...

No load idle - should be able to get fairly 'lean' on the AF... but I don't know what motor you're running or cam etc... so the numbers I'm throwing out are just that - numbers.


Thanks Greg, all explantions are helpful right now. The instructions don't really help much from accel and when I do things I know are supposed to be right and when they don't do what I think they would I get to guessing what is wrong with what I am doing. Everyone has given me just a bit more understanding with different info. The engine has a very hot cam in it and the vacuum is never going to be real high. Without the Rhoads X lifters it would be a disaster for the street. It has seemed to really accept a lot of lash with them and I may go to .040 from the .035 they are at now and see if it helps more? It really got a lot better when I went from .030 to .035 so maybe the extra .005 will do better yet. The instruction do say I could push .050 but that seems like a lot to go.

Thanks again I hope to get the wiring done on the wideband this weekend.I am certain that with the instructions they give it will be the usual fun.

[Jim Nilsen]

Step 1 of the wideband install is finally done. The wires are thru the firewall and the main plug is all together. It wasn't too bad to do, the pins came right out and the hole only had to be 1/2" so it is nice and clean looking.

Step2 is to take apart the center gauge panel and hook up all the wires inside.

I am hoping the voltage output from the wideband will work with my USM module without any adapter to my racepak. It would really be nice to be able to read a/f ratios with it.I will be talking to Donny at racepak on monday or tuesday.

So far so good and if it all goes good it will be working by wed or thurs.

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

The wideband is in and the car is back up and running.

It all went rather well and the amount of data recording and other controls in the Accel wideband will compliment the Racepak.

I have the program from Rob in and have run it long enough to run out of gas :rofl:

The engine really seems to want a lot of timing and 13.5 a/f seems to be as lean as it can go at throttle of any kind.

It's like starting over almost with the wideband. I can at least get some control over how rich it will be running at all times.

The snow is melting fast and it is going to rain soon they say instead of snow. Some front inner fenders and I will drive it anywhere.

The amount of things on the list to be done before it is ready for a track is getting smaller.

I got my helmet the other day and my fire extinguisher too. I have to get roll bar padding and think of what else is needed for safety.

It won't be long and the call to the insurance will be happening:thumbsup:

[MtotheIKEo]

The wideband is in and the car is back up and running.

It all went rather well and the amount of data recording and other controls in the Accel wideband will compliment the Racepak.

I have the program from Rob in and have run it long enough to run out of gas :rofl:

The engine really seems to want a lot of timing and 13.5 a/f seems to be as lean as it can go at throttle of any kind.

It's like starting over almost with the wideband. I can at least get some control over how rich it will be running at all times.

The snow is melting fast and it is going to rain soon they say instead of snow. Some front inner fenders and I will drive it anywhere.

The amount of things on the list to be done before it is ready for a track is getting smaller.

I got my helmet the other day and my fire extinguisher too. I have to get roll bar padding and think of what else is needed for safety.

It won't be long and the call to the insurance will be happening:thumbsup:

Why would you want it that lean?

[GregWeld]

I think he's talking about IDLE...

And that's not a lean idle... But the trick is to find what the motor wants...

[Jim Nilsen]

I think he's talking about IDLE...

And that's not a lean idle... But the trick is to find what the motor wants...

Yes it is at idle and it seems the VE table likes it a bit on the rich side to keep it going.

Finding what this motor wants is going to take a bit with the variable duration lifters.

It would be good to have it idle at around 14.2 a/f if it will like it from a standstill. I am getting better at finding what is working best.

I have to fill up the tank and try a few more programs and get some notes to give to Rob and then getting something that is even closer will come sooner.

I will be itching to drive it by the end of the week, I can feel it it.

[Jim Nilsen]

The car started to run like crap while trying to tune it friday and I realized that the plugs were doing the same thing they did another time it started to run that way. 10:1 a/f ratio was hit several times and they were fouled black.

I also took the time to finally replace the rocker studs with longer ones that were needed to be on the safe side. I set the lash up to .040 from .035 to see if I can pickup a bit more vacuum and a better idle. The Rhoads X lifters can go as much as .050 with the cam I have so we will see if it helps.

I am calling it a day and will try to start it tommorow sometime.

With the weather being as nice as it has been it will be tough not to be tempted to get it out and drive. I still need inner fenders to keep all the road crap from getting everywhere so I keep telling myself to not get carried away.

Tuning it without putting it under a load is not doing me any good results with the timing and the VE table definately is greatly effected by it. I have to get my other stuff done and save the gas for the street.

The snow slid off the hood of the truck today and that is a good sign, it was there from the first snow and I am glad to see it go. winter has been way too long for me this year with the car so close to being a good runner.

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Jim -- Watch out for those big fat A/F's -- You can destroy the oil rings in a heartbeat - and one you've managed to wash down the cylinders and those oil rings go dry - they're never coming back.... and you'll end up with an "oil eater".

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim -- Watch out for those big fat A/F's -- You can destroy the oil rings in a heartbeat - and one you've managed to wash down the cylinders and those oil rings go dry - they're never coming back.... and you'll end up with an "oil eater".


When I saw it go there it wasn't for long, it was during a correction from the computer to make up for a VE table change. I am learning to make much smaller changes in the tables now that I have a better idea of what it wants. To start out with, the table I was working from was not very close. the new program from Rob at FFI is much closer and has the top and bottom better suited I think. Not having the engine under a load and tuning is not helping any at all. I need to get it out and drive it to do it right.

I am going to stay away from richer settings to compensate for the wrong timing. With the Rhoads lifters and it being variable ,the timing and VE table is going to be different going thru changes. The engine would actually wake right up and go when the lifters pumped up and it was rich.

Thanks for the input. I can use all the help I can get learning how to program but once I get used to what changes do what I will be able to manipulate it with confidence and hopefully the correct results.

[Jim Nilsen]

Back up and running again and the extra .010 on the lash made an even bigger gain in vaccum. The KPA is now down around 60 kpa at idle without being highly timed and lean at least from what I can tell so far. I may go even more on the lash until I reach the .050 limit. I think I might call Rhoads and hear what they think and have experienced. It sure likes it the more I add and you can't hear them tick yet, they have never ticked at all so far. my other engine with the normal Rhoads lifters ticked a bit. This new design seems to work well.

The weather is as warm now as it was when I last drove it so as soon as the rain gets the salt off the roads I am going to take it out and drive it.

I am on a mission to find the material to make my inner front fender wells so I keep it all clean. Something temporary may turn into permanent, who knows? I have a few ideas, we'll see what the tape measure says about them?

I can hardly wait to feel the tires moving faster than the road with some hard acceleration. It was fun in damn near limp mode last fall it will have to be a blast with some power and rpm.

Road America here we come !!!!

[Jim Nilsen]

I have been trying to get the tune to get some acceleration without popping and have run the acceleration tables all the way up to try and get it to work, the ve table keeps wanting to like things one way on the way up from idle and another way on the way down. The Rhoads lifters are playing havoc with the timing to adjust the idle speed thru the ecu and the list goes on. I get one thing to work better and and others get worse.

I am learning more and more everyday about tuning and find I am practicing on the worst case scenario of an engine. The cam is just too radical and has no low end to work with even with the rhoads lifters to help.The good side of all this is I am learning a lot about tuning.

I have ordered up a cam from Comp Cams, I went with one the XFI flat tappet cams that has good midrange and excellent top end. These are made for fuel injection and should eliminate the problem caused by the stock car cam.

Any other problem I might still have should show up when taking it all apart. A couple of the guys at the Hotrod Shop think I may have a cam lobe or 2 going flat. When doing the lash tuesday again to check I couldn't see any signs of it and the oil when I changed it didn't have particals in it but that doesn't mean it isn't starting to happen.

I am getting thoughts of putting on my 2.02 heads that are polished ,ported and cc'd but they could use a little freshening up and time and $$ is still the evil demon here like always. So much to do and I just want to get it running good before I finish up other things.

What's a guy to do sometimes?

[GregWeld]

When you have the intake manifold off - make sure you do a forensic tear down -- look at the gasket area for any signs of a leak... pulling oil or oil vapors into the intake can reek havoc on the O2 sensor...

Also - make sure you're valve spring rates match your cam... overlook this at your own peril (or the cams peril...)

I assume you're using a dual sync distributor? Ingition timing controlled by the ECM...

If you're using Accel Gen 7 ECM - have you tried using the VE table estimator function? Also - if your motor is "similar" to many motors built these days - there are tables / tunes - already loaded with the software - have you looked at any of them - and tried any? They're a good way to get a "base" tune - as far as AF ratio and timing etc and then just tweak the VE's where they may be needed.

[Jim Nilsen]

When you have the intake manifold off - make sure you do a forensic tear down -- look at the gasket area for any signs of a leak... pulling oil or oil vapors into the intake can reek havoc on the O2 sensor...

Also - make sure you're valve spring rates match your cam... overlook this at your own peril (or the cams peril...)

I assume you're using a dual sync distributor? Ingition timing controlled by the ECM...

If you're using Accel Gen 7 ECM - have you tried using the VE table estimator function? Also - if your motor is "similar" to many motors built these days - there are tables / tunes - already loaded with the software - have you looked at any of them - and tried any? They're a good way to get a "base" tune - as far as AF ratio and timing etc and then just tweak the VE's where they may be needed.

I am checking my spring pressures to be sure but believe I should be ok, the cam lift is within .020.

yes I am using a dual sync and am still not 100% sure it is working like it should but it is reving to 6k vs 3k the first time out of the box. Do your cam and crank sensor lights come on and stay on in you diagnostics page when you rev it up or do they go white? Mine flash but not in any kind of firing sequence.

The VE estimator was so far off it was a joke. I am using the autocal button and it seems to want to change its mind like a woman in a shoe store. It likes one setting on the way up from idle and another on the way down each done right after the timing stabilizes. The cam and lifters are varying that much.

I am really hoping the swap will go straight forward like it should and if I need to get new springs I will.

Thanks

[Jim Nilsen]

WOW what a difference.

Everything is up and running and it is responding to the heart surgery really well. It idles now and it has twice as much vacuum. I modified the program I got from Rob at FFI to go with the cam specs I have and it started up and ran quickly and seemes to be pretty good to start. I had to fatten up the bottom end but it was easy enough to do after all I have learned. The changes are subtle and make a difference so I will be able to work with it now.

Tommorow I will change the oil and put the hood back on and go for a drive.

I am suspecting there will be some black marks on the pavement somewhere:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

What was the heart surgery all about??

Glad to hear you're happier!

[waynieZ]

Glad to hear it Jim.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Alright JIM!.. way to go!

[Jim Nilsen]

What was the heart surgery all about??

Glad to hear you're happier!


The cam is the heart of the engine from where I come from, it even drives the oil pump for it's blood.

The new cam is AWESOME:D

I am having no issues with the ECU or the dual sync so far. I even hit the rev limiter because it was set too low for the shift light setting to be able to see it in time for me to react ,but it did.

I have been using my program learning from the other cam and it is really responding well to everything . I just got done cleaning up the VE table and added some timing. I also had to really fatten up the accelerator program but it is liking it and getting better as I tune.

It can run with the pack now with no problem. 35mph in 1st comes up really quick and 2nd is to 65mph in no time. I am going to have to look into the racepak and log it, something to learn still. I could put in the G Tech Pro and see what it says.


Tommorow will be another good day to tune a bit more and drive if the weather goes as planned.

The tires are not up to the challenge but do hook ok. Some wider and stickier tires would really help acceleration but I can live with the stress relief they give everything else.

I will put up a youtube video next week.

Happy Easter

[Jim Nilsen]

The car has been up and running for over a week now and it is awesome. The new cam is everything it is supposed to be and the EFI is working like it should, I can actually tune it and get results. Each time I do more tuning it gets better so I know I am on the right track of how to tune.

I learned a whole lot trying to tune bad parts but it did pay off in education.

I am actually having fun with it and everyone who goes for a ride now thinks it is really good. There are a few little qwirky things to get sorted but nothing most anyone would notice but me and those who know cars.

I am ready for the track now and finishing up the interior and the engine bay.

Finally I can say it runs good :D

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

I am back from Road America licking my wounds. I wasn't totally prepared like I hoped to be. The weak link was the fuel pickup, I would run out of fuel pressure in or after the hard rights and it wouldn't really let you know by stumbling it would hust keep going. The gauge would let you know with no problem. I kept pulling my foot out of it when it went down and it was surviving all day saturday. On sunday I let the instructor drive to show me his lines and how much more speed the car could handle.
The more aggresive driving and the fuel problem led to going lean and cracking a piston. It didn't seem bad and the thought that I could limp home seemed feasable. It didn't make it, 1/2 way was no problem but it didn't make it past that. I have pulled it apart and the cam and lifters look good and the heads are coming off today to seee how they look.

Greg, you were right about the washing of the cylinders when I was tuning it seems as it was letting some blowby of oil. The back of the car was wearing Shaeffer oil but it was livable.

I learned a lot and got to experince my first blown engine. I wasn't taking it too well at first, kind of like losing your first girlfriend you thought you loved,lol. I am getting over it as I get the parts off and see what is still good.

I have an L82 short block that I can put in to replace it to get going but I am also getting some quotes for a new beefy lower end. I am not sure about the heads and may use the ones from the stockcar engine if they are good still. It will save time and money if I can use them.

The pan needs some welding repair but I did get lucky and the damage is not in the area of the baffles and doors, it is up front on the 1 and 2 cylinders.

I think I can get it back together in time to go back up the 1st and see how it goes. I have to fix the fuel problem at the pickup and have some ideas that I can try and see how it goes. If I can't get it to work I will not go out and push it again unti it is ready.

The car handled like a dream and hooked up very well. The power was more than I thought and when the instructor was driving it was keeping up with the C5's with no problem in both areas. The predictability of the handling was better than expected with no rear bar. The car pushes and the rear sticks right behind. Everyone was impressed with it and the crowd of people that it attracted was more than I could have ever believed. The comments were all positive and some were amazed at the fab work and a few finally got to see what they had been dreaming about doing to their cars and weren't sure how to do it.

The most repeated thing was: "The Corvette wheels look really good" and then I would tell them it has the Corvette factory wheel adapters and then they would look a bit further and see the suspension, it was fun to see the look on their faces when they saw the polished Vette suspension pieces.

All in all it was a good weekend and a tough learning experience but that is what happens, right.

So much to do now and I was going to use this time to finish the interior and the engine bay along with the fuel issue but now it is the engine and fuel system as priorities.

I am trying to kick butt and get it back together.

Wish me luck because I am needing it !!

[Bow Tie 67]

Good news on the cam Jim. Dont rush, I'm still addressing issues after 3 seasons, and still no real interior. Shoot for Motorstate its a more forgiving track, better time of year, and you can make sure everything is up to snuff.

[GregWeld]

Sorry to hear Jim!

Most of 'us' have been there - done that... at some point.

Love to remind my brother in law (blown small block) "Lean for a day... rich for life".

That statement, of course, is not totally accurate is it. Rich can kill a motor just as fast as a lean one. The difference might be lean breaks parts - rich just kills the cylinder walls and rings... either way - not good! :rofl:

I've killed a couple of motors tuning them.... and I've had a couple of motors killed by tuners. Either way - not good! :willy:

[Jim Nilsen]

Here is the carnage.

The number one plug had a bent electrode but no cylinder or head damage.

The number 3 had a couple of onces of water but no damage. I can't for the life of me figure out how it got here.

Number 2 piston took out the cylinder wall and the pan. You can see that the pan needs a bit more than the hammer and weld moment you would like. It will take a patch but I have fixed worse in my life.

So post up your opinions.

I think the L82 short block will be good enough. It was considered bullet proof 30 years ago to 7 grand and now they call it weak,lol. The rods have all been deburred and polished and the whole assembly was balanced and blueprinted and it still spins as good as the day it was taken out of the car in 1990. It's hard to believe it is that long ago. It has 8:1 pistons and will cut the power a bit but probably not that much. I can probably pull more out of the program to make up for it and it ran good enough to keep up with my driving skills.

There are bigger pics at PT.com

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Water gets in the cylinder a couple of ways --- Head gasket -- or cylinder wall...

I'd be magna-fluxing that block.

8:1 Compression.... Jim -- ya just can't tune that "up".... any cam at all and it's not going to make any cylinder pressure... Are you sure that's the static compression? I've seen blower motors with more compression than that! LOL

Forget the pan... it's a leaker now... hang it on the wall and get good laughs from it. Better yet - hang it in front of a window so the sunlight shines thru!

:cheers: :woot:

[Jim Nilsen]

Water gets in the cylinder a couple of ways --- Head gasket -- or cylinder wall...

I'd be magna-fluxing that block.

8:1 Compression.... Jim -- ya just can't tune that "up".... any cam at all and it's not going to make any cylinder pressure... Are you sure that's the static compression? I've seen blower motors with more compression than that! LOL

Forget the pan... it's a leaker now... hang it on the wall and get good laughs from it. Better yet - hang it in front of a window so the sunlight shines thru!

:cheers: :woot:

I have another pan that I can use for a patch to fix this one, I can't afford to spend the $280 for a new one when I am a more than competent welder to do the job right and I will have an old blown up engine to weld it up on so it fits :rofl:

After gathering my mind back from the, use what you have , mentallity that hits when you just want to drive your car. The short block is not going to work without dished pistons and is worth more as it is with the original heads on it. It is out of a 74 Corvette and should be worth something? To someone looking for a date coded block for a vette it might actually be worth more than I think? It could be worth a grand easily? What do you think? have you seen any prices lately?

I have a couple quotes coming for a good durability block and heads with out the parts I have to use with the cam I have. It isn't going to be cheap stuff but it would make the car a better car for what it is intended and should hold up.

I know I really like driving on the road coarses fast and an engine with better internals is required. I wish I had more time to redo the car to an LS but there is so much more to it than just swapping a long block it would take 2 months for me to do it all by myself and the way things with parts go something would really hold me up or go wrong.

It has been a long day and tommorow should be one more day to recovery.

[Jim Nilsen]

Well Greg, I think you will feel better knowing I just ordered a new pan. I just don't have the time to fix this one and be ready to go to the Optima Faceoff. i will have to fix it up later and have a spare or as you call it Wall Art.

I have a new engine on the way and it should be here by next wed. It only leaves me 2 days to get it all back in but I think I can do that. The on thing that has to get done is the fuel pickup for sure and I am hoping to get some help with that. I am moving it to the middle so I can keep the tank full and even if the fuel walls up inside it will still cover the pickup. I am also going to put the return in the same place inside a cylinder so it will help keep the fuel level up. I really should have done a better job to start with knowing how much trouble everyone else has had with fuel supply.

I should have the engine out today or tommorow and will start to do the tank over the weekend. I also am going to have my hood stiffened up a bit so it doesn't bow up in the middle at 125mph as much. It is a site to see and even though it opens from the back it just makes you a bit nervous. I have seen fiberglass hoods bow a lot more but I just don't like it.

As long as the engine gets here on time? I think I can make it.:thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

:rofl:

Jim -

Sounds like you have a plan! Like my daddy always told me: Plan your work and work your plan.

Glad you decided on a nice new piece of art. You don't want to go out there on the track and leak slippery stuff all over your rear tires on a hard corner!

[Vegas69]

Road racing is the ultimate test for any engine. It's needs more oil volume, better oil control, and you need and oil cooler. An engine that will last a lifetime on the street can grenade in no time. It's really a brutal enviroment with no room for error.

[Bow Tie 67]

Road racing is the ultimate test for any engine. It's needs more oil volume, better oil control, and you need and oil cooler. An engine that will last a lifetime on the street can grenade in no time. It's really a brutal enviroment with no room for error.

Amen brother mines getting a cooler and accusump.

Jim sounds like a good plan just don't rush it.

[Jim Nilsen]

Road racing is the ultimate test for any engine. It's needs more oil volume, better oil control, and you need and oil cooler. An engine that will last a lifetime on the street can grenade in no time. It's really a brutal enviroment with no room for error.


I am looking for the spot for the accusump to go. the damn thing is so big and heavy that it is hard to package. I have a lot of room in the rear of the car and may put it there, a longe line is required but it would put some weight in the rear where it is still needed to get 50/50 balance. I have room for a cooler but the car didn't go over 260 oil temp even when pushed to the limit we took it. The instructor was really surprised that the oil pressure and temp were always good and so was I. The Canton road race pan for a vette really do there job.

The new engine may run completely different in temp so we will have to see.

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

Amen brother mines getting a cooler and accusump.

Jim sounds like a good plan just don't rush it.


If I have to pass on the weekend with the car I will, I may just drive up in the car and not be in the event. who knows? with all of the cameras around I might get in some pics?

I already miss getting in and starting it to put a smile on my face. The feel of that much power was spoiling me. I think I should have a few more hp and hopefully a bit more torque too, I love torque.

So much to do so little time.

:cheers:

[waynieZ]

Jim I'm not sure who's car it was, but I saw one put down low in between front of the motor and the radiator. Since your motor is set back maybe it will fit there.

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim I'm not sure who's car it was, but I saw one put down low in between front of the motor and the radiator. Since your motor is set back maybe it will fit there.


I have eyed that spot many times and always wonder if it would block the air flow around the engine? It is actually the radiator that cools the most instead of the air that goes over the engine so it might work there?

Along the downtube in the engine bay seems like a good spot too.

I do know it is the right thing to put in because it will be needed in those real long hard turns.

The cooler may not be needed but would be a good thing to have.

I keep hoping I get the engine done in time.

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

I will be picking up the new engine tommorow and am ready to start reassembling everything. The bellhousing is always the most fun and hope it goes easy this time. I already have offset dowels and hope they are the right amount of offset.

I have to get my pilot bearing out of the old engine or get a new one. It went in tight so it might not cooperate,we'll see?


The brakes are flushed with new fluid and feel better than before. If they can survive Road America they should be good for a few more laps and some more setup time.

I have a better program to start up with than the last time and know where to fix it if needed. The computer should keep it out of trouble with the wideband and I will know exactly what the ratio is this time.

I am not sure if I can get it all done right by the weekend but I have a good chance if it all goes back together easy enough.

Hoping for the best

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

You might try data logging the O2 and the VE -- so you can take a look at how much correction the O2 is having to do. This will also tell you where you have work to do on the VE's.

The amount of correction available can be set to a max of about 25%.

Hope this all goes perfectly for you! :thumbsup:

[69MyWay]

FYI - if you go to:

http://www.accel-dfi.com/

Look down to the right you will see a streaming video.

Mark Remell prepared this video as a primer to get people in the right direction.

You'll see the 76 Trans Am in the intro with me introducing it - we put the Thruster Gen 7 on that car. WOW! I had Mark do the tune. He spent an afternoon doing the set up, then we road tested it for a couple of hours.

AMAZING. Having a pro-tuner available made life simple. Mark is a good guy and knows these systems inside out - It takes some trial an error to dial them in...but when they are in they are awesome.

When they are off - they are a nightmare.

[waynieZ]

Good luck Jim I hope it all goes well for you.

[Jim Nilsen]

You might try data logging the O2 and the VE -- so you can take a look at how much correction the O2 is having to do. This will also tell you where you have work to do on the VE's.

The amount of correction available can be set to a max of about 25%.

Hope this all goes perfectly for you! :thumbsup:


That is the beauty of the wideband, datalogging. I think I have a good grasp of the program now to begin to use it the way it can be, there is so much it can do that to be smart enough to use it all would take me a long time to learn.

The bell housing alignment kicked my ass again to get it within .003. The last time it took 3 days too, the bellhousing must have been drilled wrong and I had to actually file the holes a bit to get it to go high enough and have clearance. The holes kept me from going where it had to go.

The new engine is 9.4:1 compression and are 2.02 /1.94 angle plug with 40 more cc more runner size. It should wake it up some more and give it more top end.

I hope to have it up and running tommorow some time if it all goes well.

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

The new engine is in and it is doing well in its own right but the ignition system is kicking my butt now. I am getting a code 66 which is an overcurrent in the igniton system.

There has been a lot posted at pro touring.com about it and it is a mystery as to how just changing the long block would make it change and give it a code that shuts the ecu down.

The engine now has angle plug heads and the plug wires are in a bit differnent positions. They are Taylor thundervolt wires and are as goos new. The rotor for some reason has gotten as loose as a goose and can move back and forth the distance of the terminal in the cap and it can also rock up and down on the axis of the post of the distributor.

I am getting a new rotor tomorrow and hope to see it be the problem with it dying . The next step is to reroute the wires and get a couple of new ones to make them all the right length they need to be again. The thought is it may be the plug wires causing the over amperage going back to the ecu.

Accel says that the code 66 is caused by a bad coil or 6A box and to replace them both. I did replace them and it did not stop the code 66 from happening. The engine would sometimes run for 20 minutes and sometimes only for a few seconds but it always tries to start up and run.

This has been kicking my butt for a week now.

Any thoughts are welcome and if you have had any experience with the code or similar problem with an Accel system let me know.

It has to be something simple and what it is has to show up sooner or later.

With all the problem you have had Greg do you have any thoughts?

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Bow Tie 67]

The new engine is in and it is doing well in its own right but the ignition system is kicking my butt now. I am getting a code 66 which is an overcurrent in the igniton system.

There has been a lot posted at pro touring.com about it and it is a mystery as to how just changing the long block would make it change and give it a code that shuts the ecu down.

The engine now has angle plug heads and the plug wires are in a bit differnent positions. They are Taylor thundervolt wires and are as goos new. The rotor for some reason has gotten as loose as a goose and can move back and forth the distance of the terminal in the cap and it can also rock up and down on the axis of the post of the distributor.

I am getting a new rotor tomorrow and hope to see it be the problem with it dying . The next step is to reroute the wires and get a couple of new ones to make them all the right length they need to be again. The thought is it may be the plug wires causing the over amperage going back to the ecu.

Accel says that the code 66 is caused by a bad coil or 6A box and to replace them both. I did replace them and it did not stop the code 66 from happening. The engine would sometimes run for 20 minutes and sometimes only for a few seconds but it always tries to start up and run.

This has been kicking my butt for a week now.

Any thoughts are welcome and if you have had any experience with the code or similar problem with an Accel system let me know.

It has to be something simple and what it is has to show up sooner or later.

With all the problem you have had Greg do you have any thoughts?

Thanks for any help you can give.


Jim the only thing I can think of that would have changed would be disturbing a ground. Go double check all your grounds for good connections. ie: remove paint at attach point, some gold anti-seize will help the electrical connection at the threads. I did not read other posts hope this is not repeated information.

Make sure your battery is still up to snuff also, again check its ground and positive connections, not to mention the charging circuit. More resistance should lower current draw, but who knows exactly what the ignition system is seeing.

[GregWeld]

Jim --

Never have had that code.

A couple things come to mind just to toss out there.... make sure your ECM is not near the ignition box... they don't play nice.

Did you ground the block to the chassis etc.

Resistor plugs must be used (as I understand it).

I have that same set of plug wires...

[Jim Nilsen]

Jim --

Never have had that code.

A couple things come to mind just to toss out there.... make sure your ECM is not near the ignition box... they don't play nice.

Did you ground the block to the chassis etc.

Resistor plugs must be used (as I understand it).

I have that same set of plug wires...

All is good with the grounds and the distance between parts is good.

It all worked before the engine change without having this code come up. it is a simple problem doing it or I have an ecu problem now. But when it runs it seems good so the ignition box and coil along with the sparkplug wires and the whole dizzy setup is causing it somehow.

I should have the new rotor by noon and will know if it is the cause, it had to be replaced anyway to make sure it is not the problem and I have learned to do 1 thing at a time to find the culprit.

Thanks

[Jim Nilsen]

The new rotor didn't do the trick to get it to run. It started for about 20 seconds and then code 66'd again. I almost hought it would be good to go and I would be lucky and smiling again.

I am going to redo the plug wires to make them right and eliminate any possiblity for them to be the culprit.

The engine builder talked to Accel again today and the concensus is that the ecu was taken out by trying to keep starting it with a possible bad coil and 6a box. One good answer from ASSHELL would have kept it from happening.

I think I just might call it ASSHELL DFI from now on !!!! They have earned it don't ya think?

I will be pulling it out for the 2nd time to go back and be tested. How much do you want to bet they say it is good. If they admit it is bad and by their fault for not giving the right info when I called about the code 66 the moment it happened and couldn't find any info on their site or directions as to what that code is caused by.

I hate feeling like I am whining about this but I have to get it out or it is going to make me sick inside trying to keep my anger and frustration in.

I want to thank all of you who are helping, I would really go crazy without some kind of support group.

Now I just have get past the depressing part of ripping the car apart again to get it out.:(

[supremeefi]

Hi Guys,

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm the guy on the Accel website that does their "How-To" DVD. I've also done 2 mag articles with one of your other members, 1 in Corvette Enthusiast, the other in Pontiac Enthusiast.

Read all the posts, sorry for your troubles. But I have to say some of your problems are not the fault of Accel, but of your tuner.

Unfortunately it is an industry problem, but I've heard many people say the same support claims with FAST, Big Stuff and others. Too few good tuners out there that aren't in it for a quick buck.

If in the future any of you have a problem I'll be happy to help. If you call Accel and mention me, the rest will speak for itself. I don't know everything but I've done about 30 different applications, blown unblown and just about everything in between.

Good luck!!

P.S. If you want to drive your vehicle, IMO there isn't a better system out there for the money, period.

[Jim Nilsen]

Hi Guys,

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm the guy on the Accel website that does their "How-To" DVD. I've also done 2 mag articles with one of your other members, 1 in Corvette Enthusiast, the other in Pontiac Enthusiast.

Read all the posts, sorry for your troubles. But I have to say some of your problems are not the fault of Accel, but of your tuner.

Unfortunately it is an industry problem, but I've heard many people say the same support claims with FAST, Big Stuff and others. Too few good tuners out there that aren't in it for a quick buck.

If in the future any of you have a problem I'll be happy to help. If you call Accel and mention me, the rest will speak for itself. I don't know everything but I've done about 30 different applications, blown unblown and just about everything in between.

Good luck!!

P.S. If you want to drive your vehicle, IMO there isn't a better system out there for the money, period.

It's good to hear from someone at Accel who seems to care, there needs to be more interaction on the forums from all of the efi manufactures so that more of us guys who can't or don't want to spend a lot of money can get in the game.

Please pm me your name and number so I can call you. I am intersted to know what part of the tune could do such a thing? I would have considered this a parts problem or an installation problem. How it could go bad just from going to a different long block and no other real changes is a mystery to all of us.

I look forward to some actual real help from an Accel representative, afterall it is the company you work for and who else should know or care more than you !!!!

[Jim Nilsen]

Hopefully things are going in the right direction and Supremeefi is going to get me further in my quest.

The ecu will be the key to what happened, if it is still good then the protective circuit will have done it's job, if it is bad then it will still need to be addressed as to why the ignition did what it did and finding the problem will still have to be done.He has never experienced a code 66 so it is a learning experience for him too.

He now has all the specs of my engine and a history of my programs so the direction things go will hopefully work out for the best. I keep hoping that he has already tuned an engine with the same cam and engine configuration and he has a program that will be a better base to go from.

It is nice to have an Accel EMIC stepping up to help. He has a lot to live up to when it comes to this unit, the way it has seemed to be possesed may prove to be a challenge for him since it is not the programming that is the problem rather it is the unit functioning well that that poses the problems. Let's all wish him luck with it since it has kicked ass on everyone it has come in contact with,LOL.

[69MyWay]

Jim,

You are in good hands now. Mark is passionate about tuning. I would have been lost without him. While the system performed well out of the box, Mark brought the full potential out. He has taken the time to go deep inside the tuning software and has a natural feel for how these things should run.

I was fortunate enough to have him do an in-car tune using the full system including the wide band unit. He made that Pontiac 400 run smooth as a LS3.

I'm sure he'll help get this figured out.

[Jim Nilsen]

Just got of the phone with Mark and I am already looking forward to the future with my setup.

He has sent me a program to show me the difference in what I have to what I need and it is night and day in some areas.

I also found that I had a good handle on things and was moving in the right direction but was in the wrong boat so to speak. Now I have a bigger boat, maybe even a speed boat,lol.

I still have to get the parts working but the programming is going to be a lot better when I start it back up.

I will keep you all up to date as things progress.

I am going to concentrate on the engine bay and interior for the next week or so until the ecu gets back and then get back on the engine.

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

It has been a good week for making some progress, one step back 2 steps forward .

Went to fix the horn and turn signal problem and pulled the column out and tried to put in the other wiring harness and turn signal horn assembly and once it was out I would have had to tear apart the whole damn thing to replace it. The splines were a bit worn and the whole thing was just to much time to mess with only to have an old column. I found a place to rebuild it but that was about $200 and more than 1/2 way to a new one. Ididit wanted $640 for a new custom one and Flaming River wanted $440. I called my local HotRod Shop and asked what he could do on a Flaming River column since he is a dealer and I lucked out. He had a 30" column in stock and I went and looked at it compared to my modified column. The one he had was a double d just like I needed and he said I could take it home and see how it fit. I was delighted to find it was just what I needed and only $330. It moved the wheel toward the dash just like I wanted to do and still have room to tilt it. In a matter of an hour I had it mocked up and had my turn signals and horn working. the only thing I didn't like was the same thing the guy that returned it back into his stock didn't like, the mount let it hang down 1/2" too low. The mount was $80 and I was not going to pay that for it and be like it was. So I bought a piece of aluminum from Metal Express and made my own and raised it too. I will post a pic later of it.

I also finally bought some new inner fenders to make the front end a bit nicer. Now I have to modify them to work and am pondering how I want to tackle the job.

The best news of the week was when Accel called and told me that the ecu had a problem in the board with the est and other places. The Accel 6a box was still good and they also told me that it wasn't anything I did to cause it all. They replaced the board at no charge for the board and said they were sending it back out friday. So if I am lucky it will be here Monday and more than likely tuesday.

I am looking forward to getting it back in and getting it running again. It sure will be nice to drive it and finish breaking the engine in.

I should have a good running car by the weekend and be able to enjoy going to see friends and cruise a bit. I don't think I will be going to the Midwest Challenge since it is 5 plus hrs away but I might get brave and go see everyone?

So the mystery as to what caused it all was just the board going bad on it's own and I guess that is the way it goes.

The new tilt wheel is looking good and I don't know whether to paint it or not but it looks good 2 tone. I'll post up some pics of it too a bit later.

Things are looking up for now and we will see how the new board works when it gets back in.

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

The new board works good so far ,it didn't cost me anything but shipping so they treated me right and the new tune from Mark is doing good for starters and is forming up with a few touches in the lower end and the drivability is pretty good. I can drive at 30 mph/1000 rpm in 6th and give it gas with no problem. has good midrange so far and haven't really wound it up under torque real far yet.

Good weather for the weekend and who knows? I might head down to the MMCC if the car feels up to it. 5.5 hrs away is a long way for a maiden voyage.

It feels good to be back on the road and there is a lot to do yet but I think we will just take it easy and get the rest of the things done and enjoy. I pushed it to the limit to see how it would go and found plenty of stuff that is good and other things need improvement and then the stuff that just has to be worked around.

I need to get back into my Racepak and get it upgraded to the latest and the greatest they have now and get the screens reconfigured to more of an information center than a warning/monitoring gauge on each screen . Learning to move the information around and view it is the next step. Setting up track configurations and just getting lap times would be nice so I could record it all and use it to its full capability, lots to learn coming up.

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Good to hear Jim... glad it's working out. Accel is a good manufacturer and I'm happy they found the issue with your system.

:thumbsup:

[waynieZ]

Thats good to hear Jim.

[Jim Nilsen]

The car is getting better by the day and I keep working at the tune and making gains each time.
I am happy with the new engine for the most part and I know there is more power to be found still. There have been several moments that it hit a sweet spot and really pulled hard, with the right tune it should do it everytime.

I told myself I wasn't going to put the factory front spoiler I have on the car but I caved in yesterday and put it on for now until I get the splitter made. I just had to see how it looked and find the clearance it has. There is a lot of room between the ground and it still.

Still a bunch of little things to get done before Gingerman but I am not going to do anything that will keep me from making it. If it aint broke I'm not fixing it now, it will have to wait.

Less than 2 weeks to go !!!!

[waynieZ]

Hey Jim glad to hear its all working out. I hope it only gets better from here on.

[Jim Nilsen]

It's been awhile and the EFI is still working like it should now.

The new engine had more power than the clutch could handle from what it seems or it was just not the right setup to begin with. the instructions from Howe have been updated for good reason on the throwout bearing install. the Centerforce weights were causing a big vibration and it has been replaced with a Zoom.

I'm getting some of the interior and engine closeout stuff done and have a bit to go with each .

I have been driving the car a lot and have a bunch of car shows that I have attended. The response to the car is very good and those who know what it is can't believe the amount of fab work that has been done.

I had a great time at Gingerman meeting a lot of new people and seeing those who have been waiting for years to see my car.

I will post up some pics if I can make them small enough to fit the format.

Summer is almost half gone and I keep wondering if I can keep the car going with no problems the rest of it.

I want to thankyou Greg for checking up on me at PT.com and giving your thoughts about the clutch problem. All is good now with it.

Talk to ya all later !!!!

[awr68]

Jim, it puts a BIG smile on my face to see you at this point of the build! It's been a long time coming! Enjoy!! :cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

It's been a long time since I posted an update. i have been driving the car all the time and going to car shows and trackday/autox events as much as I can afford. 12,000 miles of it all since I got on the road 2 years ago.

If you go to youtube and put Cormaro in the search you can see my video's

[Jim Nilsen]

It has been a long time coming and the Cormaro is ready to go to the Midwest Musclecar Challenge this weekend at Putnam Park. After several months of searching for the cause of my high end miss I have chased it down and it has finally reared it's ugly head and is now fixed. The dual sync distributor was the culprit but there were other things that were sneeking up on me that made the problem hard to pin down. Now with a fuel system that has been gone thru and the ignition system that is working like it should, new brake pads front and rear and the new steering rack I am keeping my fingers crossed for it to be a good weekend of fun and really see what the car can do.

It has been like living a dream come true all summer going to all the events,getting 5th place at the Goodguy's Joliet was awesome to me and with the close of Labor Day and the car sorted out and my driving skills able to keep up with the car now I am finally happy to say it is one heck of a car.

I wish I could link the youtube videos here but I haven't figured out how to do that yet. if you put in Cormaro in the search at YT there are some new video's up .

:cheers:

[Jim Nilsen]

I was at Putnam Park this last weekend and had a blast. The Cormaro had all of its rpm and the difference was awesome. I need better brakes so I can pick up more speed in between corners. I hit 116mph in the straight which is pretty damn good for 300 rwhp. The handling of the stock suspension parts still has me amazed, tire temps were flat across the whole set and the wear was right where it should be. I keep finding ways to get better lap times every time I go out and the Kumho's have proven to be sticky but not any stickier than Karl Dunn's Nitto's.We both have 285's all the way around and the 180 vs 200 tw doesn't seem to make any difference in grip from what I see, we are both using all the tire we have correctly and it is as much fun as we can both have.

I did well in the autox in Lawrenceville and found I have a lot more to learn about driving in 2nd gear without putting too much foot in it, I think Brian Finch has the foot like a feather to be able to do what he does.

I need to get some new mufflers since I was told the car is getting really loud at full throttle, 12,000 miles plus has taken the toll on the insides I bet.

I am ready to make a fuel cell so I stop having fuel starvation issues in the long corners. I have made it up to full g forces in the corners and it reall reflects all the fuel going to one side or the other when I get down on fuel.

I am also going to have to put the accusump in too, the start stop challenge is the only place I have a problem when the car gets to the last few feet. the track and autox don't effect it but he oil going all the way to the front for all its worth is just too much. Good thing is that I am off the gas and the r's are down at that point.

I will be posting up videos soon at youtube so check them out, there a re plenty there already so have fun looking. Just put Cormaro in your search box and you go right ot them.

I'm still smiling

[dunnjun]

Hey Jim, I had a blast running with You and Matt at the MMCC! What a great event! Our cars are so close, that it makes for some really good racing! I counted 27 time slips for autox. Getting ready to go through the car, and see how it's doing. Looking for your vids. You ought to have some killer footage.
Later:thumbsup:

[waynieZ]

Glad to hear it Jim. You deserve a brake after all your hard work.

[Jim Nilsen]

Hey Jim, I had a blast running with You and Matt at the MMCC! What a great event! Our cars are so close, that it makes for some really good racing! I counted 27 time slips for autox. Getting ready to go through the car, and see how it's doing. Looking for your vids. You ought to have some killer footage.
Later:thumbsup:

It is always fun seeing you Karl, the Mustang is such a fine car too! Thanks for the ride along to show me a 44 sec time. I did a 45.88 after the ride with you. I think I could have made it to 44 if I had done as many turns as you did,man thats a lot of turns. Now I know practice makes you better. I had a round 14 runs at it, i have to count my slips and add 1 they lost. It was a fast autox and your car rides like a silk slipper thru those cones.

We had to be real close in time at the track because I never was on your bumper or you on mine, it was probaly close somwhere on the the track.

I don't think my mufflers are all there anymore, they seem to have those strange noises only blown out mufflers get and Jimmy Spears told me my car was really loud so I would guess I better start shopping for my next exhaust setup. I was just one name away from the Magnaflow setup that Matt won, darn!!!!

It was an awesome time !!!!!

YT has videos