69 Camaro Front Suspension

[firstgencam]

Ok everyone I am looking at the different coilover setups for the front of my 69 and am wondering which one out there is the best as far as performance, quality, and price. I have a friend that has the DSE Speed Kit 3 on his car which requires a lot of modification to the subframe which isnt that big of a deal, but is it that much better than the cheaper kits out there that are just a direct bolt in coilover system? Like Speed Tech front suspension for example? Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Jon

[Blake Foster]

well thanks for the plug. i think we have come up with an excellent compromise.
With the addition of the ATS line how does this sound

If your not worried about some welding we can combine the ATS Chicane upper coil over brackets, with a QA1 coilover (this keeps the cost down) add the upper and lower arms and a sway bar and you can have a great front set up that is a step up from the QA1 GMP coil over conversion kit. but not as far as the complete sub frame. very straight forward install if your a decent welder.
The next upgrade would be the ATS Tall spindles and either a rack and pinion conversion or 12:1 or 14:1 steering box??

[ItDoRun]

I opted out of the DSE kit simply because of the process involved in setting the ride height, so I decided on the Pro-Touring kit from Speedtech. Nothing against DSE, because they have a great product. It also depends on what you're trying to achieve with the car.

[ItDoRun]

well thanks for the plug. i think we have come up with an excellent compromise.
With the addition of the ATS line how does this sound

If your not worried about some welding we can combine the ATS Chicane upper coil over brackets, with a QA1 coilover (this keeps the cost down) add the upper and lower arms and a sway bar and you can have a great front set up that is a step up from the QA1 GMP coil over conversion kit. but not as far as the complete sub frame. very straight forward install if your a decent welder.
The next upgrade would be the ATS Tall spindles and either a rack and pinion conversion or 12:1 or 14:1 steering box??

Blake,
What's involved if I ever wanted add the ATS brackets? What parts would I need besides the brackets. I assume the shocks are different than what is offered with the Pro-Touring kit.

Got any pictures of those brackets welded on a subframe?

[Spiffav8]

well thanks for the plug. i think we have come up with an excellent compromise.
With the addition of the ATS line how does this sound

If your not worried about some welding we can combine the ATS Chicane upper coil over brackets, with a QA1 coilover (this keeps the cost down) add the upper and lower arms and a sway bar and you can have a great front set up that is a step up from the QA1 GMP coil over conversion kit. but not as far as the complete sub frame. very straight forward install if your a decent welder.
The next upgrade would be the ATS Tall spindles and either a rack and pinion conversion or 12:1 or 14:1 steering box??

This is very good advice. You can't go wrong with ATS or Speedtech products. Personally I used ATS on my last car and I was 100% happy with the results. Speedtech will most likely be on my next one.

Enjoy!

:thumbsup:

[67bird]

The ATS Chicane requires you to remove the "flap" that the stock shock bolts into. Them some trimming is necessary for the pass through of the shock. Next, you "fit" the new bracket to the remaining upper control arm bracket. Then, you can temporarily mount the shock, to allow for fully welding in your bracket. Your lower control arms must be for a coil-over, then unless the kit has changed, you weld two tabs to your lower a-arm. The kit used to be avalible with Bilsteins and Penske shocks, but it looks as if Speedtech is now doing them with QA1's. I think you can get a glimpse of the install by looking at the "one lap camaro" (Jim Shipka's Camaro SP?). Also check out the ATS website. I think there are pictures of the parts there.

[ProdigyCustoms]

A lot of it will depend on needs, wants and buget. Also budget and abilities cross paths too. Something like Blakes Chicane kit works great especially if you can install it yourself. If you have to hire it done, pay a pro shop $60 to $100 hour, you will spend some coin in labor, and it your not carefull you could find yourself spenidng enough money modding your subframe you could have just called us and ordered one of Blake Subframes. So I think the Chicane kit is perfectly suited for the do it yourself builder on a budget that has the fabrication skills to install himself.

If the fabrication and welding skills are not there, then I would lean towards one of the 5 other bolt in solutions we have available for you car that you can install, including Speedtech amoung others.

[dhutton]

I have read very little positive about the "coilover conversions" that rely on the existing upper spring pocket to seat the coilover spring. Negatives include stress on the shock leading to leaky shocks and limited ride height adjustment. If you want to go coilover my opinion is that you should be using something like the Chicane mounts. Otherwise consider sticking with conventional springs combined with adjustable shocks.

Just my two cents worth,
Don

[Blake Foster]

I have read very little positive about the "coilover conversions" that rely on the existing upper spring pocket to seat the coilover spring. Negatives include stress on the shock leading to leaky shocks and limited ride height adjustment. If you want to go coilover my opinion is that you should be using something like the Chicane mounts. Otherwise consider sticking with conventional springs combined with adjustable shocks.

Just my two cents worth,
Don

your correct sort of, i agree for what ever reason that preseption is out there. We have sold hundreds of QA1 coil over conversion kits and have YET to have anything come back. take that for what its worth.

[Blake Foster]

A lot of it will depend on needs, wants and buget. Also budget and abilities cross paths too. Something like Blakes Chicane kit works great especially if you can install it yourself. If you have to hire it done, pay a pro shop $60 to $100 hour, you will spend some coin in labor, and it your not carefull you could find yourself spenidng enough money modding your subframe you could have just called us and ordered one of Blake Subframes. So I think the Chicane kit is perfectly suited for the do it yourself builder on a budget that has the fabrication skills to install himself.

If the fabrication and welding skills are not there, then I would lean towards one of the 5 other bolt in solutions we have available for you car that you can install, including Speedtech amoung others.

This i also agree with.

[dhutton]

your correct sort of, i agree for what ever reason that preseption is out there. We have sold hundreds of QA1 coil over conversion kits and have YET to have anything come back. take that for what its worth.

What sort of ride height do you get? What is the resulting available shock travel? I looked pretty hard at these a few years ago and it sounded like you cannot get the low ride height that most here are looking for. Maybe things have improved.

Don

[ProdigyCustoms]

According to QA1 you can go 1 1/2" lower then stock safely with the QA1. Only time I see problems is when people to go to low, which seems to be a lot of people, LOL!

[firstgencam]

Thanks everyone for all the information.... I really appreciate it!

[Blake Foster]

what size wheels and tires? with larger combos the suspension wont go as far, but if you mount the T bar on the bottom side of the control arm there is a free 3/4" we have been able to get them to the correct ride height every time

[DFRESH]

I've got Blake's setup in the front of mine (Upper and Lower Arms, QA1's, swaybar, and the ATS spindles) and am able to get the ride hieght I wanted out of it. I've driven the thing pretty hard, including a 240 mile round trip this past weekend (part of it was through a 10 mile crazy canyon)--and the stuff works awesome. I've got plenty of travel left on the front that I don't need.

I'm running 19 inch wheels in front with DSE half inch high body mounts--that really helped get the cars stance where I wanted it. I have to run a 235 up front to run at this height with a stock subframe, but I was willing to deal with the trade off for the stance. I would highly recommend Speedtech's setup since I am running it, and can tell you it works extremely well---I also took Blakes advice and mounted the T-Bar on the bottom side of the LCA---Blake, Roger and the guys are fantastic to deal with as well.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/random030.jpg

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/090609GreatLaborDayCruise659-vi.jpg

Doug

[70rs]

I've got Blake's setup in the front of mine (Upper and Lower Arms, QA1's, swaybar, and the ATS spindles) and am able to get the ride hieght I wanted out of it. I've driven the thing pretty hard, including a 240 mile round trip this past weekend (part of it was through a 10 mile crazy canyon)--and the stuff works awesome. I've got plenty of travel left on the front that I don't need.

I'm running 19 inch wheels in front with DSE half inch high body mounts--that really helped get the cars stance where I wanted it. I have to run a 235 up front to run at this height with a stock subframe, but I was willing to deal with the trade off for the stance. I would highly recommend Speedtech's setup since I am running it, and can tell you it works extremely well---I also took Blakes advice and mounted the T-Bar on the bottom side of the LCA---Blake, Roger and the guys are fantastic to deal with as well.

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/random030.jpg

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/090609GreatLaborDayCruise659-vi.jpg

Doug

Ya know Doug, that is one very cool car you have!:thumbsup:

[dhutton]

Well there is no arguing that your ride height is not low. It looks great. Just curious how much suspension travel you have left. Any time I have lowered my car to that level it bottoms out regularly and there is only a little travel left in the shocks. Admittedly I do not have half height bushings, a mistake I did not realize until I welded in my DSE subframe connectors and at that point there was no turning back.

Don

[Blake Foster]

Yep that is a Pretty low ride height, cnat wait to see it with the torque arm in it,:unibrow: :unibrow:

[DFRESH]

Yep that is a Pretty low ride height, cnat wait to see it with the torque arm in it,:unibrow: :unibrow:


Me also---Does Speedtech want to sponsor a So Cal West Coast car for marketing reasons? :unibrow:

You guys have great stuff---What a difference it's made on mine--it's fun to drive and as you know did really well at the Auto X---now, if I could just get some bigger tires under the front-------

Doug

[DFRESH]

Well there is no arguing that your ride height is not low. It looks great. Just curious how much suspension travel you have left. Any time I have lowered my car to that level it bottoms out regularly and there is only a little travel left in the shocks. Admittedly I do not have half height bushings, a mistake I did not realize until I welded in my DSE subframe connectors and at that point there was no turning back.

Don


Don, I just measured the amount of travel left (from LCA to point of contact on the stock sub---and it about 3.7--if I shaved the bump stops, I could get another .5 out of it---I run my shocks pretty stiff in front---so I have not bottomed out. The 19's in front on mine really gives the illusion that it sits lower than it does, along with those .5 DSE body mounts---those helped dramatically---and the ATS spindles took about another 3/4 in off the ride height. Lastly, the chrome wheel molding gives the illusion of approx another 1/4 inch. I can't go any lower, but the tires clear in front. Let's face it, if you want to go low stance, without air, you sacrafice something--in this case, tire width. Todd Akes calls my 235's "Pizza Cutters"--LOL. I'll run wider when I put the Speedtech Sub up front. Let me know if I can help with other pics, etc--you can't go wrong with Blake's stuff.

Doug

[Vegas69]

Douglas, he wants to know how much more shock travel you have not control arm to bump stop. As you lower the car you are also losing shock travel compression. You sure those aren't trailer tires up front?

[DFRESH]

Douglas, he wants to know how much more shock travel you have not control arm to bump stop. As you lower the car you are also losing shock travel compression. You sure those aren't trailer tires up front?

LOL man---yes they are---and they are bias ply---

Ahhh, shock travel---well, If i compress the car the full 4 inches, I am not bottoming the shock out---upon extension--it appears to be approx the same-however, this is with the shock mounted to the bottom side of the LCA.

Doug

[Bad94]

well thanks for the plug. i think we have come up with an excellent compromise.
With the addition of the ATS line how does this sound

If your not worried about some welding we can combine the ATS Chicane upper coil over brackets, with a QA1 coilover (this keeps the cost down) add the upper and lower arms and a sway bar and you can have a great front set up that is a step up from the QA1 GMP coil over conversion kit. but not as far as the complete sub frame. very straight forward install if your a decent welder.
The next upgrade would be the ATS Tall spindles and either a rack and pinion conversion or 12:1 or 14:1 steering box??


When will the ATS Chincane brackets be ready?

[67bird]

BAD94,
Not to high jack another guys thread, but the ATS (Speedtech) Chicane brackets are already avalible and have been for some time. You can visit the Speedtech site or the ATS site and find them. If you go to Speedtech first, hit the link for the ATS site. Once there go to products and then suspension. You can find the brackets and the complete Chicane-LM kit. The only differences now are that the kit will most likely be supplied with Speedtech arms, as before they were supplied with GW arms. Also, as mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, they mentioned using QA1 shocks. Before the kits were supplied with either Bilstein or Penske. I would suggest you call Speedtech for more details, but according to the ATS site the brackets were avalible. As far as the kit, I would suppose they could sale you everything in it with exception to the adjustable sway bar (never knew if ATS got it to market) and the spindles, as the are normally on backorder.

[Blake Foster]

we have brackets in stock, we cna set the collars up for QA1 shocks, if your wanting to use any other shock we need to know what ones so we can set up the collars and weld them.
delivery would be a week. depending on what other parts you want.