School bully issue, opinions wanted

[70rs]

Ok guys, here is the scoop. My son is almost 6 and goes to an all day kidergarten program at the elementary near us. Since shortly after the start of the school year he has been the target of another kid in his class. This kid throws toys, rocks, books, punches him in the face, kicks him and pushes him down on the playground. This kid also calls him names and says mean things to my son.
This has all been documented by me and the teacher. She (teacher) has confronted the parents a few times without any change. I have been assured by the staff at the school that my son is in no way instigating any of this himself. Yesterday he got hit in the head with a book that was thrown like a frisbee. This alone could have done serious damage to his eye (hit right above it).
I have talked to the teacher, principal and today the district office directly to the principals boss. I really feel like this kid should have been pulled out of this class a long time ago and that the principal is not doing anything to fix this problem.
I made it clear today that if they do not remove this other kid from class that I will make it a legal issue for the district on Monday.
the school has a zero tolerance policy about bullies but has not enforced it at all. I feel like they don't take my sons well being seriously. I am NOT going to wait for a more serious injury to react to this. But I feel like they are.

Now before you say my son should defend himself, he knows that responding with voilence is not the right way to handle this. He does go to martial arts class 4 days a week and could wax the floor with this kid but is mature enough to know not to. Trust me, it would take all of 25 seconds for my son to resolve this on his own. But I do not want to teach him to respond like this unless it is a real emergency and he has no other choice.

So I guess my question is besides going to the district and demanding a fix for this, what else can I do? I could go to the kids house and react poorly on his parents, but that only teaches my son that the violence is ok. If he was a lot older I would encourage him to take care of it himself, but he should not be faced with that crap at his age.
I told the district office that the next step will be a legal one. I also told them that this other kid obviously needs help of some sort. 5 year olds don't do this stuff without learning it at home first.

So thoughts on how to handle this? Has anyone else dealt with anything similar in a public school? How did you handle it?

Thanks for any input. I need this resolved NOW for my sons sake.

[Vegas69]

What about having one of the kids moved into a different class.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I raised 3 boys. As much as I hate to say it, if he kicks that kids ass in front of everyone, he will probably get suspended, but won't have to worry about this stuff ANYMORE! If he continues to handle this through "the system". there is another bully waiting where this one left off.

[70rs]

The kid going to another class was my first suggestion to the school. Why it has not happened I don't know. I refuse to have my own kid uprooted and moved away from his teacher and friends because the other kid makes it a hostile environment. The other kid needs to go.
But I will find out on Monday Todd.

Frank,
I would LOVE to have him handle it himself. BUT, not yet at this age. If he were just a few years older then great. I would turn him loose on the kid. Right now I want him to understand that all other resources need to be tried first, then kick the hell out of the kid. He can and he knows it. He is actually afraid of hurting the kid. It's just not the response I want him to learn out of the gate. But I do agree with you, he should. I just can not encourage him to do that ...yet.

[Autokraft]

Somebody just posted about this very subject on yellowbullet the other day:(

[70rs]

Somebody just posted about this very subject on yellowbullet the other day:(

That sucks! It was not me. It makes me sick to think that kids these days are like this. At 5 years old everything should be fun and games, innocent, safe. Not like this.

Someday my son will understand and take matters into his own hands, but not yet. I hope. I am trying to teach him right, and so far so good. I don't want this to get worse though.

I could only hope to meet this kids parents behind closed doors....they are the real issue behind this kids troubles.

[CNDbowtie]

invite the kid to your sons martial arts classes...sounds like the sport might teach him some discipline that school and his family cant :thumbsup:

[Sunkistcamaro]

I haven't had this problem yet. My daughter is 3yr 7 months, son is 7 months.
I understand how you are feeling about your son fighting back, I dont want my kids getting into fights. I was bullied when I was young, a few guys would think it was funny to push me around and charge after me when I was young. My mom did a lot of talking to parents, teachers, principles.... The parents disciplined there kids. I remember it getting worse. One day I lost it and put them both on there azzes. Once the kids realized I wasn't going to be a push over they stopped. Years later, we became friends.
Im not telling you what to do, just sharing personal experience.

[Vegas69]

I have to agree, if the school can't handle it then it's time for him to stand up for himself in one form or another. Back when I was in Kindergarden they would paddle your ass. I still remember the principal taking kids out in the hall. All this political bologna put an end to it and this is what the educators are left with. Princiapals should still have that power IMO. Parents that could care less about there kids and their behavior are not to rare now. I hear about it all the time. Kelli is a 1st grade teacher.

[70rs]

invite the kid to your sons martial arts classes...sounds like the sport might teach him some discipline that school and his family cant :thumbsup:

Good idea. Then my son could teach him some manners.


Someday he will have to fend for himself, I am very aware of that. But not at 5 years old. Like I said, if he were older I would fully encourage he take this kid to the ground with a roundhouse kick to the head. Just not yet.

I am still looking for a solution through the proper channels. If this makes it worse, I will escalate the issue one on one with the father of this kid. My way. I am fully aware of the kind of world we live in. But right now my son depends on me to protect him and I will not let him down.

I am wondering if anyone else has had to deal with a school or district on this issue or level before.
If it comes to kicking some ass, then game on. I am all in. But would rather exhaust all other avenues first. It will keep me out of jail longer.

[70rs]

I have to agree, if the school can't handle it then it's time for him to stand up for himself in one form or another. Back when I was in Kindergarden they would paddle your ass. I still remember the principal taking kids out in the hall. All this political bologna put an end to it and this is what the educators are left with. Princiapals should still have that power IMO. Parents that could care less about there kids and their behavior are not to rare now. I hear about it all the time. Kelli is a 1st grade teacher.

I agree Todd. I wish the schools had more leverage with the kids. I remember getting my ass whacked more than once in school.

I bet Kelli sees it all huh?

The bottom line is that if he NEEDS to he will. And when that happens I will back him up 110% with whatever trouble he gets into.

There are some STELLAR examples of bad parents around here. (where I live that is)

[awr68]

Give Brenden a high-5 for me...he's acting very mature for his age!

It's up to the school and school district to do the right thing here! Hopefully early next week the other kid is moved to a differant class room and the parents get a good talking to! And hopefully they don't share recess time after the kid moves class rooms...at that point if it continues then I guess Brenden needs to 'fix it' himself...just tell him to hold back on the kid!

I stood up to the neighborhood bully when I was around 12 yrs old, he never gave me crap again and we have been real good friends since!

Best of luck with this!!

[Roger M]

I also told them that this other kid obviously needs help of some sort. 5 year olds don't do this stuff without learning it at home first.


I would guess you might be correct here. This other boy probably has some special needs. My wife is a Para-Educator at one of the local schools. She works one-on-one with a few kids that have issues. Some of them are pretty violent towards other kids...and the teachers.
Maybe this kid needs some special attention and the teaching staff hasn't looked into it yet?I agree that a lot of it comes from home and the way his folks raise him.
I hope you find a civil solution, Eric.

[Mkelcy]

File suit against the parents, the principal and the school district on Monday. The complaint doesn't need to be fancy, it doesn't even need to withstand a demurrer. All it needs to do is to get their attention. Have the complaint served on Monday, by a process server, in person, at the school - make sure you sue and serve the principal personally and make sure you allege that he/she has willfully failed to follow district policy. It'll cost you a little to prepare the complaint and to have it personally served, but you want shock and awe.

DO NOT encourage or allow you son to kick the bejeesus out of the other kid. That will only muddy the record, and may expose you and your kid to a world of hurt. The "parents" of the other kid are clearly not suitable to be rearing young, and will only seize on any retaliation to pursue a claim against you.

[BonzoHansen]

School Superintendent is next step, then Board of Ed President. Use the word lawsuit liberally. Keep your notes together.

Too bad, if your boy whacks bully kid with a book or kicks him in the jewels your boy will get in trouble. I bet his parents know the word lawsuit. Funny correlation there.

[70rs]

Thanks Roger and Tony,
He (my son) is handling this deal pretty mature for a 5 year old. He is a tough kid and can take his lumps. You should see him spar at class every night. This kid is in for a WORLD of hurt if Brenden cuts loose on him. But telling my 5 year old to go beat up some other kid at school is a tough pill for me to swallow.

I also hope we find a civil solution and fast. They are having a staff meeting on Monday and I should have some sort of answer.
The other kids parents have been talked to a few times. I have been told it was like talking to a brick wall and that I should be glad I don't know them. Sounds like a great place to raise a kid huh?
You know, if this kid does not get some help in his life he WILL end up in prison and then I get to pay for it. Pretty cool how that works huh?

Maybe Brenden kicking his ass will change him and do him a favor?

[70rs]

File suit against the parents, the principal and the school district on Monday. The complaint doesn't need to be fancy, it doesn't even need to withstand a demurrer. All it needs to do is to get their attention. Have the complaint served on Monday, by a process server, in person, at the school - make sure you sue and serve the principal personally and make sure you allege that he/she has willfully failed to follow district policy. It'll cost you a little to prepare the complaint and to have it personally served, but you want shock and awe.

DO NOT encourage or allow you son to kick the bejeesus out of the other kid. That will only muddy the record, and may expose you and your kid to a world of hurt. The "parents" of the other kid are clearly not suitable to be rearing young, and will only seize on any retaliation to pursue a claim against you.


I spoke to the district head tonight. He is the direct boss of the principal at this school. He was not aware of any of this, but he assured me he will be a surprise guest at the staff meeting on Monday and get to the bottom of it. I made it clear that I want to work this out without going to the next step which is a legal issue for them. I also made it clear I will not compromise when it comes to my son and that they need to take care of this right now.

[Autokraft]

Check out this thread
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205263
Hope you get it all worked out.

[Mkelcy]

He was not aware of any of this, but he assured me he will be a surprise guest at the staff meeting on Monday and get to the bottom of it.

That's bureaucrat for "the check's in the mail." The principal is either incompetent or uncaring. Either way, you won't get instant action. You'll get a lot more attention with a complaint or even just a letter from a lawyer - on Monday.

[70rs]

Check out this thread
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205263
Hope you get it all worked out.

Thanks, I will check it out.

[70rs]

That's bureaucrat for "the check's in the mail." The principal is either incompetent or uncaring. Either way, you won't get instant action. You'll get a lot more attention with a complaint or even just a letter from a lawyer - on Monday.

Monday will tell me a lot about how they are going to handle this. And it will give me the answers I need to make the next step. Next on the list is my lawyer (already spoken to him today), the police and the district.

I thought about the media. How funny would it be to show up with a news crew on a live feed asking why they let this continue.....

Ok, I would not do that. But the thought is fun!

[70rs]

Check out this thread
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205263
Hope you get it all worked out.

I tried getting on this but it would not load. I will try it later, but thanks again for the link.:thumbsup:

[radrambler]

Ok

take a picture of what happened to your sons face if visible ...#1

Your doing a great job handling this ..:cheers:
I have found if i demand certain things from people sometimes they dont respond the way i want but if i pose it in a question in which they have to tell me what they need to do about something ..IT REGISTERS IN THIER HEAD...Once they say what they need to do or will do then OWNERSHIP of the issue is in thier court..
I would not tell the "whomever" to do anything or else anymore.YOUVE DONE IT..
I would question that person as to what they think should be done. Turn THE PROBLEM ON THEM IN QUESTION FORM....if you tell them its happened x # times.which you have ..
Your wanting someone to tell you "WHAT THEY WILL DO OR what THEY THINK SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT IT. dont say a word until they answer your question.Even if they stall or dont say anything for 5 minutes.Make the DAMN GUY THINK .Then when they give you the answer tell them "ok so you will call me and tell me when this has been done correct" ?
If you get one more chicken SHIZZ answer..LAY THE SMACK DOWN
I WOULD SERVE THEM PAPERS..make a STATEMENT..

AND JUST BE CALM AND FIRM..business like...
GOOD LUCK..

TOM

[Mkelcy]

Monday will tell me a lot about how they are going to handle this. And it will give me the answers I need to make the next step. Next on the list is my lawyer (already spoken to him today), the police and the district.

I thought about the media. How funny would it be to show up with a news crew on a live feed asking why they let this continue.....

Ok, I would not do that. But the thought is fun!

Ask, in writing (email, hand delivered letter), if you can attend the portion of the staff meeting dealing with this situation. Whether or not you get to attend, give them a clear written demand - you want the other kid transferred out of your son's class no later than Tuesday. If the kid's not transferred, lawyer up. Do it all in writing, just so there's no dispute about what occurred. It's up to you to escalate this so they can't just shrug it off.

For me, when my kid is at risk, it's not a time to be nice or patient, it's a time to kick ass and take names.

[70rs]

Ask, in writing (email, hand delivered letter), if you can attend the portion of the staff meeting dealing with this situation. Whether or not you get to attend, give them a clear written demand - you want the other kid transferred out of your son's class no later than Tuesday. If the kid's not transferred, lawyer up. Do it all in writing, just so there's no dispute about what occurred. It's up to you to escalate this so they can't just shrug it off.

For me, when my kid is at risk, it's not a time to be nice or patient, it's a time to kick ass and take names.

Agreed. Monday is the deadline for change. I have asked that they remove the kid. And told them if they do not that it will become a legal issue. I told this to the principal, teacher and district head. I will put it in writing and hand it to them on Monday. Thanks for the advice.
I am being "nice" by that I mean acting in a professional manner and not running around like a whack job making threats. They know I am serious. I made that clear. I also made it clear to them all that my sons saftey and well being are not something I will make any kind of compromise on. Ever.

[70rs]

If I do not have the results I want on Monday morning I will go pay the retention fee with the atty. They will be served by Tuesday.

Thanks for all of the advice and input guys. That is why I put it out here, hearing from others always helps.:thumbsup:

[Mkelcy]

I am being "nice" by that I mean acting in a professional manner and not running around like a whack job making threats. They know I am serious. I made that clear. I also made it clear to them all that my sons saftey and well being are not something I will make any kind of compromise on. Ever.

Agreed, you want to be calm, clear and deadly serious.

Sounds like you've got it handled, but remember put everything in writing. If you have a call, confirm what was said in a letter (and, of course, keep a copy).

It's all about the documented record. It's a crappy way to have to be, but hopefully it's only for a short period.

[70rs]

Agreed, you want to be calm, clear and deadly serious.

Sounds like you've got it handled, but remember put everything in writing. If you have a call, confirm what was said in a letter (and, of course, keep a copy).

It's all about the documented record. It's a crappy way to have to be, but hopefully it's only for a short period.

Thanks Mike,
I have everything documented right up to today. Including the conversation with the officials at the district office this evening. Names, dates, events, actions or lack of.....all of it. Ten years ago I would have already beat someone. Amazing what a few years will do to mellow a guy out huh?:lol:
I can take a lot of crap, but someone messing with or even worse hurting my kid is not something I will deal with on any level.

Thanks again guys!

[Mkelcy]

Thanks Mike,
I have everything documented right up to today. Including the conversation with the officials at the district office this evening. Names, dates, events, actions or lack of.....all of it. Ten years ago I would have already beat someone. Amazing what a few years will do to mellow a guy out huh?:lol:
I can take a lot of crap, but someone messing with or even worse hurting my kid is not something I will deal with on any level.

Thanks again guys!

Just to be perfectly clear, a letter setting out your version of an event (e.g., confirming what was said in a telephone call) and sent to the other party is MUCH better than simply taking notes. If the other party disputes your version of events, the letter creates a burden on them to either respond or, implicitly, to accept what you said.

Now that you're getting to the short stokes, send letters (if you haven't been doing so all along).

[garickman]

You and your son are handling this situation the right way. A couple of thoughts on the letter. If you hand deliver the letter on Monday, you might want to follow up with it a certified letter through the mail directly to the principal. That way there is no doubt it was received and it won't turn into a he said/she said situation. You may also want to get in touch with your states child protective services. Many times children acting out like this is a reflection of a poor home inviornment. Even if they can't help at the moment, get the name of the person you speak to with CPS and use that as some leverage when you have your meeting with the school. Make sure you document everything in the order in which it has happened.

[70rs]

Here is the plan.
Take my son to school Monday morning. If the other child is in class I will head directly to the atty and let them write up and serve everything. They can be the point of contact and take care of it. I have everything documented to this point. They have sat on their hands and done nothing. (except blow sun shine up my ass)

For the recoed I did make it very clear I think they need to investigate what is going on with the other child at home. In this state they have a legal obligation to report this to the state and follow up as well. They are also legally obligated to provide counseling and care for this child too. CPS really sucks in this state. But it is better than nothing. And that kid needs help. But my first priority is my own child. The only way to make sure he is safe is to remove the other one.
I will ask the atty about serving a restraining order on the kid through his parents. They would then be required to keep him at least 500 yards away from my son, which just happens to be enough to not let him be on school property.
I will let the atty handle it after Monday morning if need be. I have made it clear how I feel. The abuse is well documented by me and by the teacher and school nurse. Several of the support staff at the school have seen it happen many times. In the library, play ground, class room, lunch room....it is not a new thing for any of them. That is why I am so pissed that they let it go on til now. I am just amazed that adults would just sit by and let it happen and do nothing. And even after I have asked them to work with the other parents to resolve it, nothing. Now it is time to force some action.

I will keep you posted on how it goes on Monday. I am done F****ing around with these people. If they will not do the jobs that we as taxpayers pay them to do then I will make it my mission to replace them with those that will.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Wow Mike
I dread ever having to face this with my kids. My son is 7 and so far no problems with this kinda stuff. My daughter is almost 4 and more shy. I dread the "mean girl" crap with my daughter more than my son. That stuff is so much harder to deal with.

I think you are going through the right channels and doing the right thing.....but I hate to say it but it probably wont change the situation. Short of that kid moving schools, your son will deal with this kid again. They may be in a different class but if this other kid has it out for your son, he will find him again.

There is only one way to deal with a bully and thats straight on....telling him not to do something or saying "leave that kid alone" only fuels their desire. Its a power play and thats exactly what they want. They want to be challenged and show that they can do whatever they want to whomever they want and no one can stop them. If he know he can push everyone buttons he will go out of his way to do it.

If it were me I would do exactly what you have done....try all the "right" channels first. Get it all documented..... then I would give my kid free reigh to lay the smackdown on this kid. He doesnt need to beat the crap out of him...it wont take much for this kid to realize that he needs to find someone else to mess with...one decent punch will usually do it.

I know that may be hard to face at his age. But you teach him that you try to do the right thing first, but sometimes "enough is enough" and you have to do whats necessary to stand up for yourself. That should be the message for your son.

Man I hope I never have to deal with this crap....

Good luck.

[DRJDVM's '69]

One more comment...

I know you feel like the school staff and admin arent doing anything....but try to take into consideration what they CAN do. Just as you have a legal right to file suit, so do the other parents..... "my son is being singled out....you arent providing the supervision or instruction he needs...... you are harming him emotionally by making him change classes....he'll be labelled a bully..... you're harassing us"....blah blah blah....all BS but school districts have been sued for big $$ over that type of stuff too

You would be suprised how "hand tied" they are on what they are legally allowed to do to. They may WANT to do alot.....but unfortunately our legal system has made it the way it is. Similar to the criminal system, alot of the criminals end having more rights than the victims....sucks but thats they way it is....

[70rs]

Thanks Ned. You have met him, he was at Tims when you came up to get the car last summer. Anyway, I am at the "enough is enough" stage right now. I have been stewing over it for weeks, then thought it was taken care of only to find out today the principal did nothing and put it back on the teacher to deal with the parents, again.
When Brenden gets to the point of retaliation it will be over quick, and the other kid will loose I am sure. I just don't want that to happen so young ya know?

I think this kid is crying out for attention. Part of this that I had not mentioned because it would look like I am being biased (which I am because it's my son) is that Brenden is the "popular" kid in the class. All of the other kids look up to him, he helps the teacher by helping the other kids on their work when he gets done with his. He has all of the little girls at his desk non stop. All the boys want to play at recess with him....he gets all of the attention. But it is because he is a good kid and a very nice kid to everyone. This kid that picks on him is on the other end of the spectrum. He is disruptive (to get attention), throws stuff, yells in class, is rude to everyone and just a pain in general. I think it is because he is neglected at home or maybe even abused and the only way he gets any attention is by acting out.
So Brenden being the center of attention makes him a prime target for the kid. He hits my son, the attention shifts to him, he is satisfied. But it is for all the wrong reasons and done in a rotten way.
Either way you slice it the parents are to blame for his issues and they are the ones that need an asskicking I think.

I can honestly say that I have NEVER been this angry about anything in my life. This take it to a whole new level.

[wedgehead]

We have been in this situation with two of my sons. My youngest is in 1st grade at the time was having issues with a 3rd grader. We went to the principle with the situation was told they would look into it. They did nothing said they watched the kid for a few days nothing changed. Luckily this kid walked home also. My older kids (twins really big kids) in the 5th grade at the time saw the kid picking on my little guy. They took care off the kid. His parents called the police they ended up calling it defending an attack. Could've pressed charges against the kid but he had enough probs at home we found out. Never had another prob with the kid. The other time one of my big guys had an issue with a kid when he was in the sixth grade from an older kid. Told my son to tell him he was going to get the wrath of both of them, it still persisted. I went to the principle to get them to deal with it. Told the principle that my son was going to fix the problem if he didn't. The twins were almost 6 ft at the time but the principle took care of it. they are now in high school and are 15 years old and are 6'3" 210# and nobody messes with them now. I wish you great success with this as it can be very frustrating dealing with the school district.

[70rs]

We have been in this situation with two of my sons. My youngest is in 1st grade at the time was having issues with a 3rd grader. We went to the principle with the situation was told they would look into it. They did nothing said they watched the kid for a few days nothing changed. Luckily this kid walked home also. My older kids (twins really big kids) in the 5th grade at the time saw the kid picking on my little guy. They took care off the kid. His parents called the police they ended up calling it defending an attack. Could've pressed charges against the kid but he had enough probs at home we found out. Never had another prob with the kid. The other time one of my big guys had an issue with a kid when he was in the sixth grade from an older kid. Told my son to tell him he was going to get the wrath of both of them, it still persisted. I went to the principle to get them to deal with it. Told the principle that my son was going to fix the problem if he didn't. The twins were almost 6 ft at the time but the principle took care of it. they are now in high school and are 15 years old and are 6'3" 210# and nobody messes with them now. I wish you great success with this as it can be very frustrating dealing with the school district.

Thanks for the insight. Yes, it is very frustrating dealing with the school so far. I seem to have gotten a much better response from the district though. Time will tell.
If I gave my son the freedom to just go beat this kid he could do it in a hurry, but at this age? I just can not do that yet. Maybe in a couple years?

[DFRESH]

Eric, my wife is a 1st grade teacher and has dealt with her fair share of these types of issues. First off, your son's teacher isn't doing enough---this type of behavior in class that you are speaking of (at least her in Cali) gets the kid thrown out for suspension. Further, social services and a counselor are called in for the kid in question when this type of behavior takes place. That's been our experience over the past 12 years here. They (your school and its district) need to be doing more for you and this other boy.

The unfortunate part of this type of story is that the kid being thrown out is usually being abused or mistreated at home (typically a recent divorce, step brother or sister hits them, etc). I think you are approaching the right people in this, but you will have to make it painful for them since they are showing obvious signs of being disengaged. When your son is there, he is "their" responsibility legally--they have to safeguard his well being and provide a safe enviornment. You aren't just fighting for your son, you are setting the example for the school and the district that they must take this seriously, and you may have to force it upon them through the voice of an attorney like Mike has mentioned---it's a good fight since it will ultimately affect all the kids when it is finished. Your son may be able to stand up for himself, however there will be many other kids that this boy will find to pick on who won't be able too---you know the damage that does to such young kids---keep doing what you are doing and get the pain in the right place---the media certainly isn't a bad idea given what you have said, and trust me Eric, they would be interested--you can pretty much be guaranteed that the issue would be resolved when they are brought in. It would be a great idea to alert the other parents about this as well, as you can be assured that it's not just your son this kid is affecting. Some kids just won't say anything to their parents about it all---those are the ones who suffer the most. Get a couple of those serious soccor moms po'd and you've got some powerful allies.

Now, I am with the others however should the kid in question not lay off your son after you've done all you can do. You've turned the other cheek and it is admirable--I applaud your kindness to the other boy through your son. You are setting a great example to him. I've got a 7 year old in 1st grade and a 4 year old daughter---like others and yourself, I dread this type of thing as much as has been mentioned. The thought of someone hurting them or even the threat of it would seriously enrage me, so I understand your restraint and admire it. I will get some advice from my wife as well on this and pass that onto you. Please keep us posted as to the outcomes--this is good info to pass along.

Doug

[skatinjay27]

Eric, my wife is a 1st grade teacher

Dougso thats how you got that janitor job!:lol:

[BonzoHansen]

Thanks for the insight. Yes, it is very frustrating dealing with the school so far. I seem to have gotten a much better response from the district though. Time will tell.
If I gave my son the freedom to just go beat this kid he could do it in a hurry, but at this age? I just can not do that yet. Maybe in a couple years?

Go kick the kid's dad's ass. :lol:

[youthpastor]

sorry Eric, hope all works out tomorrow..you could always "get Jessie" ...he is a local wistle blower news media guy, with the kind of response here, this might be a good one to get the media involved, they hate that worse than the word lawsuit. Jessie is my good friend's brother.

everybody has had to deal with the bully in class and far too many of us didn't do anything about it like in the movie "Christmas Story" me included. on one side I wish your son would teach him a lesson but on the other side this poor kid is another ....slipping through the system child who is being taught this crap at home. Dad's probably not around, boyfriend is still a boy himself who lives for the latest PS3 video game and aspires to be the next Texas Hold-em champ knows or cares little about raising a child that belongs to some chick he met in a karaoke bar....need I go on.

I'm not passing judgment here, just stating years of youth experience and seeing a kid who the system has failed him. The kid deserves the dad that you are, he got the shaft and is acting out...and our school system is shoving him though the pipeline. They can't do anything about it unless he shows signs of abuse himself. and then what he gets passed into the foster system. Sorry to rant, been taking adoption classes for two days hearing about kids who have tough home lives. I will pray for this kid and hope all works out for you.

I just hope the kid doesn't get the the crap beat out of him by karaoke superstar boyfriend for being disciplined at school and switched to another class. I'm sure the mom will play the victim card.

You guys could always join a home-school co-op and you could start buying your wife denim jumpsuits:lol: :lol:

Let us know how it works out, my thoughts and prayers are with you guys- Chris

[Ketzer]

A good friend of mine was in the same situation with his son. A shy quiet kid that didn't cause trouble. Perfect target for bullies. My buddy did turn his son loose on the bully after months of trying to get something done. His son, like yours, has been taking martial arts for years. He didn't hurt the other kid, just very quickly showed him enough was enough. His son was suspended and moved to a different school and now has that on his perm record. Nothing happened to the bully.
What my friend failed to do was document anything. He had visited the school multiple times but had not formally charged the bully or his parents. He also did not seek help past the principal of that school. He had no proof other than his word. No one at the school would get involved even though they all really liked his son.

It is a sad commentary that these things aren't dealt with better. We are having more and more Coloumbine-like incidents every year.

Good luck!


Jeff-

[70rs]

sorry Eric, hope all works out tomorrow..you could always "get Jessie" ...he is a local wistle blower news media guy, with the kind of response here, this might be a good one to get the media involved, they hate that worse than the word lawsuit. Jessie is my good friend's brother.

everybody has had to deal with the bully in class and far too many of us didn't do anything about it like in the movie "Christmas Story" me included. on one side I wish your son would teach him a lesson but on the other side this poor kid is another ....slipping through the system child who is being taught this crap at home. Dad's probably not around, boyfriend is still a boy himself who lives for the latest PS3 video game and aspires to be the next Texas Hold-em champ knows or cares little about raising a child that belongs to some chick he met in a karaoke bar....need I go on.

I'm not passing judgment here, just stating years of youth experience and seeing a kid who the system has failed him. The kid deserves the dad that you are, he got the shaft and is acting out...and our school system is shoving him though the pipeline. They can't do anything about it unless he shows signs of abuse himself. and then what he gets passed into the foster system. Sorry to rant, been taking adoption classes for two days hearing about kids who have tough home lives. I will pray for this kid and hope all works out for you.

I just hope the kid doesn't get the the crap beat out of him by karaoke superstar boyfriend for being disciplined at school and switched to another class. I'm sure the mom will play the victim card.

You guys could always join a home-school co-op and you could start buying your wife denim jumpsuits:lol: :lol:

Let us know how it works out, my thoughts and prayers are with you guys- Chris

Jesse is on the possible list of calls to make. Think the school would enjoy a live news crew out front? LOL!!


At this stage the other kid is "salvageable" and can have a good life. He is being taught some poor behavior at home, but with the right intervention by others he can have a better life.

[tones2SS]

Hey Eric, sorry to hear about this problem.
As much as I would LOVE for your son to kick this kid's ass up and down the street, he'll probably be the only one that gets into trouble. It's sad but true.
If I were you, I would go see the highest person in charge and let them know that you are not going to stand for this to happen any more. Let them be fully aware that you are going to lawyer up and let them know that.
Then, I would speak to an attorney and tell him your side of the story and see what he says and take it from there.
GOOD LUCK with everything buddy.

[70rs]

A good friend of mine was in the same situation with his son. A shy quiet kid that didn't cause trouble. Perfect target for bullies. My buddy did turn his son loose on the bully after months of trying to get something done. His son, like yours, has been taking martial arts for years. He didn't hurt the other kid, just very quickly showed him enough was enough. His son was suspended and moved to a different school and now has that on his perm record. Nothing happened to the bully.
What my friend failed to do was document anything. He had visited the school multiple times but had not formally charged the bully or his parents. He also did not seek help past the principal of that school. He had no proof other than his word. No one at the school would get involved even though they all really liked his son.

It is a sad commentary that these things aren't dealt with better. We are having more and more Coloumbine-like incidents every year.

Good luck!


Jeff-


I went over the principals head yesterday, right to his direct boss. If that fails I have the number for the district supervisor, and the state office that oversees them. If need be I will just keep climbing that ladder. as far as I need to and make it as public as possible. I will not wait for an incident of serious injury (or any injury again) at this point. I am done waiting for them to respond.

[70rs]

Eric, my wife is a 1st grade teacher and has dealt with her fair share of these types of issues. First off, your son's teacher isn't doing enough---this type of behavior in class that you are speaking of (at least her in Cali) gets the kid thrown out for suspension. Further, social services and a counselor are called in for the kid in question when this type of behavior takes place. That's been our experience over the past 12 years here. They (your school and its district) need to be doing more for you and this other boy.

The unfortunate part of this type of story is that the kid being thrown out is usually being abused or mistreated at home (typically a recent divorce, step brother or sister hits them, etc). I think you are approaching the right people in this, but you will have to make it painful for them since they are showing obvious signs of being disengaged. When your son is there, he is "their" responsibility legally--they have to safeguard his well being and provide a safe enviornment. You aren't just fighting for your son, you are setting the example for the school and the district that they must take this seriously, and you may have to force it upon them through the voice of an attorney like Mike has mentioned---it's a good fight since it will ultimately affect all the kids when it is finished. Your son may be able to stand up for himself, however there will be many other kids that this boy will find to pick on who won't be able too---you know the damage that does to such young kids---keep doing what you are doing and get the pain in the right place---the media certainly isn't a bad idea given what you have said, and trust me Eric, they would be interested--you can pretty much be guaranteed that the issue would be resolved when they are brought in. It would be a great idea to alert the other parents about this as well, as you can be assured that it's not just your son this kid is affecting. Some kids just won't say anything to their parents about it all---those are the ones who suffer the most. Get a couple of those serious soccor moms po'd and you've got some powerful allies.

Now, I am with the others however should the kid in question not lay off your son after you've done all you can do. You've turned the other cheek and it is admirable--I applaud your kindness to the other boy through your son. You are setting a great example to him. I've got a 7 year old in 1st grade and a 4 year old daughter---like others and yourself, I dread this type of thing as much as has been mentioned. The thought of someone hurting them or even the threat of it would seriously enrage me, so I understand your restraint and admire it. I will get some advice from my wife as well on this and pass that onto you. Please keep us posted as to the outcomes--this is good info to pass along.

Doug

Thanks for the advice Doug. It helps. And from everyone else too. Everything from "kick his ass" to "get a lawyer" helps.
The first step is the lawyer, and then making it VERY public. My first priority is my son. But I did also make it very clear that I know they have a legal obligation to help the other kid too. I guess I am working on his behalf too. He's 5. He was taught this crap at home and needs something done. That is not something I will do directly but I will sure pressure the school into doing something about it.
When I spoke to the district office and the supervisor over the school principal he was pissed about the whole thing. He did not say anything out of step, but I could hear it in his voice. He is now aware of everything including a possible lawsuit. That is something they just do not want.

I am VERY surprised that they have not at least suspended the other kid yet. I just don't get that. The teacher has made the principal very aware of all of it, I did too. I spoke directly to him. But his lack of action is sickening to me. Now he will have no choice but to act.

[70rs]

Hey Eric, sorry to hear about this problem.
As much as I would LOVE for your son to kick this kid's ass up and down the street, he'll probably be the only one that gets into trouble. It's sad but true.
If I were you, I would go see the highest person in charge and let them know that you are not going to stand for this to happen any more. Let them be fully aware that you are going to lawyer up and let them know that.
Then, I would speak to an attorney and tell him your side of the story and see what he says and take it from there.
GOOD LUCK with everything buddy.

Thanks bud! I have the lawyer ready to go. Mnday will tell me which way I need to go with all of it. I HOPE they remove the kid, get him some help and we can all get on with life. But if not, well I have nothing but time to dedicate to the cause right now.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Man I though alot about this subject last night after I read this whole thing...and what I would do. Tough situation to be in...

Yes, you should feel some sympathy for the other kid...he probably has a crappy home life etc etc, but he's not your problem. You wont be able to change that his parents or his home life. Your priority is your son. Hopefully your actions will start the ball rolling to check on the home life of this kid, but its still not your problem.

Despite everyone wishes and high goals, schools cant solve these problems. Schools cant solve crappy parents and a crappy home life. They have hundreds of kids to deal with and minimal resources. I think alot of crappy parents just use the school as a daycare to babysit the kids and expect them to "raise them" and teach them whats "right and wrong". If you dont have good parents, that rarely happens.

I'm still of the same opinion....go through the right channels...document everything up the ying yang. I'd tell the school and all the admin that if this continues that you have given your son the "green light" to beat the tar out of this kid. Either they take care of it or your son will be forced to defend himself, end of story. If you have everything documented and the whole school system is aware of whats going on, your son should be fine if he has to do whats necessary. They have been warned and its all in writing.

Moving this kid to another class wont change anything if this kid is gunning for your son. You mentioned that some of the incidents have taken place on the playground, in the lunchroom etc etc. At best it will make the kid target some other poor kid in the other class and probably still your son during the "open season" parts of school.

Yes it would suck that you may have to let your son use violence to solve a problem at 5 years old, but if you do the right thing, talk to him in depth about doing things the right way....trying to walk away, let it go, the kid has problems etc etc...... but sometimes you have to stand up for yourself. Its a good lesson to not let other people push you around....both emotionally and physically.

[70rs]

Thanks Ned. I agree that the other kid is not my problem, but it is a legal responsibility of the school to do something including calling in state agencies to help him.
And you are right in that if it's not my son, it will be someone elses down the road. This kids location in the school does not matter, it is his personal issues that are the problem.

When all else fails I will green light my son to do what is needed to put a stop to it. Until then, gotta keep my head on straight.

[Ketzer]

Just a little add-on to my earlier post, the school made a big deal about my buddy's son being "trained to fight". That was the issue that got him black listed. None of the earlier stuff mattered, they zeroed in on the martial arts part and the good kid became the out of control monster. Just FYI.


Jeff-

[ProdigyCustoms]

The problem is if your son does not at least knock him on his ass, he will be the sissy who's daddy handled it for him. We did that one time and it got really bad for my middle son. After we had him moved from the class he was getting screwed with from everyone. Lucky for us we were moving anyway to a better school district.

When all 3 boys went to the new school, of coarse someone wants to try you. They all had their moments and handled things at the bus stop. One even got his ass kicked by the bully, black eye, but even the bully respected him for standing up for his self, they became friends, and no more problems, ever.

All our problems happened in elementary and middle school when the kids are young, small and cannot do much damage. Come High school when these guys can really hurt one another, we had ZERO issues which is good because non of my boys were exactly big tough guys, but none are pussies either. Not one of my kids was in a fight ever after early middle school and moving to the new schools. I attribute that to standing up for themselves early and carrying themselves with confidence.

Now with that said that was at least 12 years ago and things have probably tighten up even more since then as far as punishment for standing up for yourself. But reputation in school is everything.

[70rs]

Just a little add-on to my earlier post, the school made a big deal about my buddy's son being "trained to fight". That was the issue that got him black listed. None of the earlier stuff mattered, they zeroed in on the martial arts part and the good kid became the out of control monster. Just FYI.


Jeff-

That is what I am worried about. But if all else fails then what do we do?

[Mkelcy]

That is what I am worried about. But if all else fails then what do we do?

If your son is forced to act, that likely means that the school system hasn't acted. In which case the school system will likely defend its failure to protect your son by denying that there was ever an issue - leaving you and your son hanging.

Document everything, in writing, to the school system. Take pictures and send them along with your letters. Talk to other parents who have kids in your son's class, call CPS for the kid that's doing the bullying, hire a lawyer and sue the school system and the parents of the kid that's acting out - but in today's PC world, do not let your son retaliate.

[70rs]

If your son is forced to act, that likely means that the school system hasn't acted. In which case the school system will likely defend its failure to protect your son by denying that there was ever an issue - leaving you and your son hanging.

Document everything, in writing, to the school system. Take pictures and send them along with your letters. Talk to other parents who have kids in your son's class, call CPS for the kid that's doing the bullying, hire a lawyer and sue the school system and the parents of the kid that's acting out - but in today's PC world, do not let your son retaliate.

He won't. But I did tell him to not let that kid put his hands on him anymore. He will go with that and stop at blocking him.

[DFRESH]

so thats how you got that janitor job!:lol:


LOL---yeah, her classroom is always the cleanest since I've been there. Sorry for the hijack---

Doug

[70rs]

LOL---yeah, her classroom is always the cleanest since I've been there. Sorry for the hijack---

Doug

It's all good. A little humor is always appreciated!:thumbsup:

[BonzoHansen]

The problem is if your son does not at least knock him on his ass, he will be the sissy who's daddy handled it for him. We did that one time and it got really bad for my middle son. After we had him moved from the class he was getting screwed with from everyone. Lucky for us we were moving anyway to a better school district.I agree with that when they are older. But this little boy is 6.

[70rs]

[QUOTE=ProdigyCustoms;264155]The problem is if your son does not at least knock him on his ass, he will be the sissy who's daddy handled it for him.



I agree Frank, and how I would love to turn my son loose on this kids ass! But, his age, the current state of PC crap and the fact that everyone is lawsuit happy keeps me from doing that. One day this kid will get it, from my kid or someone elses. But at 5 (almost 6) it needs to be handled carefully on my end. My son has training to fight. He is taller, stronger and I think alot smarter than the other kid. It would be an unfair fight to say the least. The legal end of this is not one I want to be on the defending side of. The last thing I need is for this kids parents to come after me because my kid waxed the floor with thiers. And if this kids dad wants to come to me and call me a sissy for handling it, let him. I can handle most situations on my own that way just fine.

Ten years ago, no sweat. Now, it is a problem.
But I do appreciate the advice very much.:cheers:

[RECOVERY ROOM]

File suit against the parents, the principal and the school district on Monday. The complaint doesn't need to be fancy, it doesn't even need to withstand a demurrer. All it needs to do is to get their attention. Have the complaint served on Monday, by a process server, in person, at the school - make sure you sue and serve the principal personally and make sure you allege that he/she has willfully failed to follow district policy. It'll cost you a little to prepare the complaint and to have it personally served, but you want shock and awe.

DO NOT encourage or allow you son to kick the bejeesus out of the other kid. That will only muddy the record, and may expose you and your kid to a world of hurt. The "parents" of the other kid are clearly not suitable to be rearing young, and will only seize on any retaliation to pursue a claim against you.
My wife is a lawyer and I had her read this,This is a good way to expose the problem with out any more issues.The school will not want this getting out in the general public........My thoughts are to confront the parents off school grounds and see what there attitude is

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

I hear what Frank is saying and agree to a point BUT

hell have PLENTY of chances to do that soon enough.. Ive always been a true believer of "choose your battles wisely.

if that needs to be Daddys battle then so be it.. just remember these are the building blocks of life man.. hes gonna have to knuckle up one day..

just maybe this isnt the day.

[70rs]

My wife is a lawyer and I had her read this,This is a good way to expose the problem with out any more issues.The school will not want this getting out in the general public........My thoughts are to confront the parents off school grounds and see what there attitude is

I have been told the other parents were talked to twice about this already and were non responsive. Like it was no big deal and didn't care to hear about it. The exact words from the teacher were "like talking to a brick wall".

If I have to confront them and get that kind of response it will get real ugly real fast. I don't need that kind of excitement in my life right now. But if all else fails.....:_paranoid

My first thought is to make it VERY public if they(the school) does nothing to fix the problem.
Thanks for the input Tracy

[70rs]

I hear what Frank is saying and agree to a point BUT

hell have PLENTY of chances to do that soon enough.. Ive always been a true believer of "choose your battles wisely.

if that needs to be Daddys battle then so be it.. just remember these are the building blocks of life man.. hes gonna have to knuckle up one day..

just maybe this isnt the day.

Yup, not this day. Not his first time at school, in kindergarten of all places. Later? oh yes!! just not yet.

He is a tough kid. He knows he is doing the right thing as of this point. He also knows he can defend himself at any time. He is very patient and will tolerate a lot. But when his line is crossed he will respond. Just like me that way. My line is crossed in a big way.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Do not confront the other parents off campus. If you are looking for things to escalate and get sued, thats the best way to do it!! At best it would piss off the other parents enough that they will encourage their kid to go after your son more.....at worst, you get in a fight with them and the chance of lawsuits is way higher than if the fight is between kids.

I would probably DEMAND a meeting with the teacher, the principal, the superintendant and the other parents. Everyone should be present, so there is plenty of documentation and witnesses. Then hash it out....with the final position of being "everyone is aware of whats going on....everyone has been warned that when push comes to shove, your son will do whats necessary, including using his martial arts training to defend himself"

You wont change this kid or his parents with a meeting...but you will give plenty of warning...whether it be legal plans or physical outcome.

I would probably record the meeting too....either voice or video.

Have you talked to your son martial arts teacher? He might have some good advice for your son. Martial arts are all about "turning the other cheek, but if you have no choice, kick the guys ass" and "violence is the last choice, but sometimes necessary"

[70rs]

Do not confront the other parents off campus. If you are looking for things to escalate and get sued, thats the best way to do it!! At best it would piss off the other parents enough that they will encourage their kid to go after your son more.....at worst, you get in a fight with them and the chance of lawsuits is way higher than if the fight is between kids.

I would probably DEMAND a meeting with the teacher, the principal, the superintendant and the other parents. Everyone should be present, so there is plenty of documentation and witnesses. Then hash it out....with the final position of being "everyone is aware of whats going on....everyone has been warned that when push comes to shove, your son will do whats necessary, including using his martial arts training to defend himself"

You wont change this kid or his parents with a meeting...but you will give plenty of warning...whether it be legal plans or physical outcome.

I would probably record the meeting too....either voice or video.

Have you talked to your son martial arts teacher? He might have some good advice for your son. Martial arts are all about "turning the other cheek, but if you have no choice, kick the guys ass" and "violence is the last choice, but sometimes necessary"

Yes, talked to his teacher (martial arts and at school), also the superintendents office, the principal and support staff at the school. Everyone is aware there will come a time when my kid kicks the hell out of the other one. But that is what I am trying to avoid. And no, I would not confront the other parents outside of a meeting with everyone else involved. I don't need to get sued for beating an idiot.
I get the feeling the only way the school is going to do the job they should is to get the media and my lawyer involved. I can't believe I am having to deal with this at his age. Just stupid all the way around.

I am going to find out in the morning what they have decided to do with this whole mess. If the answer is not what my son and this other kid need then I will demand that meeting but will have my atty present at it.

[parsonsj]

It's a very difficult thing to deal with other children bullying your kids. My 13 yr old is a smaller boy than many of his classmates and has had to deal with it too.

In one instance, he dealt with it himself, and got suspended for 3 days. He was astonished when I told him he was in no further trouble with me. I also lit up the Dean at the school because I thought the no-bullying rule wasn't being enforced. Those three days hurt his grades too. However, that bullying stopped, and the bully ended up being a lonely kid as all his friends became my son's friends. It was all a bit primal, but hey, we're nothing other than really smart apes after all. I did enjoy the phone call from the other boy's dad complaining that his son had a large bruise on his ribs.

In another instance, we dealt with it with an email to the teacher. The teacher responded by moving desks and pulling the other boy to the side with a little "one-on-one" conference and sending a note home to the boy's parents. I'm not sure that issue is fully resolved, but it has been much better later.

jp

[tones2SS]

My wife is a lawyer and I had her read this,This is a good way to expose the problem with out any more issues.The school will not want this getting out in the general public........My thoughts are to confront the parents off school grounds and see what there attitude is

That is a great idea. Although, I suggest you have your lawyer talk to his parents instead of you and your wife. Things could get heated VERY quickly!!
Good luck Eric.:thumbsup:

[70rs]

That is a great idea. Although, I suggest you have your lawyer talk to his parents instead of you and your wife. Things could get heated VERY quickly!!
Good luck Eric.:thumbsup:

Thanks buddy! Once it goes to the lawyer it will be up to them to handle all communications. I don't really want to even meet the other parents. (ok, I'd like to but it's REALLY not a good idea and I know that).
I will find out in the morning what is going to happen. I'll keep you posted.

[tyoneal]

Good idea. Then my son could teach him some manners.


Someday he will have to fend for himself, I am very aware of that. But not at 5 years old. Like I said, if he were older I would fully encourage he take this kid to the ground with a roundhouse kick to the head. Just not yet.

I am still looking for a solution through the proper channels. If this makes it worse, I will escalate the issue one on one with the father of this kid. My way. I am fully aware of the kind of world we live in. But right now my son depends on me to protect him and I will not let him down.

I am wondering if anyone else has had to deal with a school or district on this issue or level before.
If it comes to kicking some ass, then game on. I am all in. But would rather exhaust all other avenues first. It will keep me out of jail longer.
======================================
Sorry to say this, but I had a bully problem growing up also. I learned to fight. Bully problem went away, and I learned to be self sufficient. If I had had my parents do something about him, I would have had two Bully's on my ass the next day.

This is how kids determine their pecking order. It's normal. Let him be a normal kid and deal with it. As the kids mature, this crap goes away. Until then, your kid will be better off, and have much more pride knowing he took care of it himself. He will remember the day he took his first stand. I know I still do. I don't physically fight anymore, but I'm not afraid to kick some ass legally, and people know this.

I don't have grown up Bully's either. :-)

I don't know if this helps, but it is my story.

Good luck.

Ty

[deuce_454]

i think that no matter what happens next, it is a good thing to have some form of written record of what you talked to the school about etc.. so next time you have a meeting with meet somone at the school, hand them a letter from your lawyer explaining your dissatisfaction that the bully-rules set forth by the school itself arent being observed.. and EVERY time you talk to them.. send them letter in a polite tone that for good measure recapitulates what you discussed and agreed upon.. and be sure to write in the letter that a copy will be sent to before said lawyer.. same with letters to the paretns of the bully... dont ever insult them, or theraten them.. just send , or have your lawyer send them a letter explaining what you have observed and that the corespondence will be shared with all parties, the school, your lawyer for future reference...

that way 95% of all trouble usually will be resolved, just give them the opportunity to fix the problem to your sattisfaction without being humiliated or feeling as such... that way you dont have a gunslinging redneck going postal on your family...

[coolwelder62]

:thumbsup: The same thing happened to my son a few years ago.We seem to talk till we were blue in the face but nothing.Then one letter from a attorney and it stopped and my son did not seem to have that problem any more.Something about a letter that has real meaning seems to hit home to the powers that be.Good luck.Tell your son to to keep pushing forward & Mean people are never sucseccful in life.

[tellyv]

Speak softly and carry a big stick!!! I would let my kid go kung foo on them!! And if that didnt work I'd give him some pepper spray, theres no way you should let your kids go through that I dont care if you get sued or your kid gets thrown out of school he needs to defend himself NO MATTER WHAT!!!

[deuce_454]

:thumbsup: The same thing happened to my son a few years ago.We seem to talk till we were blue in the face but nothing.Then one letter from a attorney and it stopped and my son did not seem to have that problem any more.Something about a letter that has real meaning seems to hit home to the powers that be.Good luck.Tell your son to to keep pushing forward & Mean people are never sucseccful in life.

there you go... a real letter from a real attorney will always get things done, any school employee would be out on their ass with little time to clear out their desk if they didnt fix a potential law suit beforehand.. this works for you, and against the bully

[70rs]

Hey guys, little update.
I met with the school this morning to see what they intend to do about this mess. They have come up with a plan and asked me if I thought it was acceptable to try. They will keep this kid in the classroom, but there will be another assistant at all times. They will also have the schools counselor, the special ed teacher and the resource person in the class on a rotating schedule to work one on one with this kid. The other parents have been contacted MANY times it turns out and the school just gets the cold shoulder or ignored alltogether. So they will focus on his needs while at the school, and CPS has been contacted to investigate the home situation.
The rest of the plan is to keep him on a different schedule and very busy in the school. His recess time will be indoors in the special needs program and away from the main population of students. He will sit in a designated area at lunch and be supervised. He will also go into a different PE or gym class with other kids that have similar issues or needs. He will also be separated at library time.
So the bottom line is that he and my son will still be in the same class but with direct supervision over the other kid. He will be separated from the other students anytime they are out of the classroom and will still have direct supervision. They know there are jobs and a very serious lawsuit on the line here and they are taking it very seriously.
My son will be safe and the other kid will get some help.

I made it very clear this will not be tolerated anymore. And that they have dropped the ball in a huge way and are open for a serious lawsuit right now but that I am willing to work with them.

I do REALLY APPRECIATE EVERYONES comments, thoughts, suggestions, sharing of stories and support in this. This is what makes this place so great, the people. Thank you all very much!
I will keep this updated and see where it goes.

:lateral: :hail:

[Mkelcy]

Hey guys, little update.

Sounds like a good result if they follow through.

[Roger M]

Sounds like good news, Eric. I hope the kid gets the help and supervision that he needs. Also, I really think that CPS needs to look hard into what is going on at the home.

[70rs]

I hope he does too. Obviously my son is my priority, but the other kid can not be swept aside and forced through the system. He will end up shooting me in a 7-11 someday or end up in prison and be a tax burden to us all.

He can be saved and have a great life IF the school and state do what is right. He is only 5 for gods sake. He is not at fault here. But I can not spend my time worrying about him, my son is my priority and I have to focus on that.

[camcojb]

you're doing the right thing Eric, sounds like things are going to be fixed. :thumbsup:

Jody

[98ssnova]

Sounds like that kid is going to elemtary school prison. Good for you buddy:cheers:

[70rs]

Sounds like that kid is going to elemtary school prison. Good for you buddy:cheers:

LOL!!! He kind of is. But they are trying to structure it for him in a positive way and not as a "punishment" but rather as a way to give him more direction and guidence. He is obviously lacking any kind of positive environment at home, the school is going to continue to try and help that as well.

[Bow Tie 67]

Eric, great way to handle this, parenting can be very trying at times. I hope they do follow through and the other little guy gets the help he needs and deserves.

[chr2002ca]

Eric, I just read through this thread and want to commend you on how you've handled this so far. You've done much better than I probably would. I constantly had to put up with bullies in the neighborhood I grew up in and I promised myself that when I have kids one day I'll teach them how to fight back like I had to. However, after reading through this thread and seeing how you're handling it, I admire the fact that your trying to create a situation where your son just doesn't have to fight at all(at least not yet), and that maybe the other kid gets some real help instead of just a beatdown. So kudos to you man! :thumbsup: I certainly hope the steps the school is FINALLY taking with this other kid will solve the problem permanently.

Cheers, :cheers:
Chris

[70rs]

Thanks guys. I hope they get it figured out for everyones sake. I will keep you posted on what happens.


I would encourage anyone having any issues with a school to read up on your state laws. You will be amazed at what is considered a crime and how easy it is for the school, parents and students to break them without even knowing it.
Protect your kids but also protect your self and your assets.

[DRJDVM's '69]

I sure hope it all works the way they say it will and its not alot of "blowing smoke up your ass" to get you to "go away".

I sure hope the kid gets what he needs....but the school cant fix him. Without the back up of good parents, everything the school does will likely fail. I hope I'm wrong on that....

Good luck....

[70rs]

I sure hope it all works the way they say it will and its not alot of "blowing smoke up your ass" to get you to "go away".

I sure hope the kid gets what he needs....but the school cant fix him. Without the back up of good parents, everything the school does will likely fail. I hope I'm wrong on that....

Good luck....

Thanks Ned. I hope they follow through too. For my son AND the other kid. It sounds like the other parents are not willing to help in any way and just don't want to be bothered by any of it. The school has their work cut out for them for sure.
The school knows I am watching everything very close and that I am not going away any time soon.

[comp-spec]

Eric,sorry bro... you are doing the right thing. your boy is still young

If it doesn't stop let your kid give him a bully beat down
then I would visit the father and talk to him with my flash light

[GregWeld]

I'm with Pete! LOL

I'm liken' the flash light beat down!

We'll visit you in prison! And they have the Internet!!


:rofl:

[70rs]

I'm with Pete! LOL

I'm liken' the flash light beat down!

We'll visit you in prison! And they have the Internet!!


:rofl:

Great! I can still keep in touch with all of you guys. Sounds like a plan! LOL!!

[BBC69Camaro]

If your son is forced to act, that likely means that the school system hasn't acted. In which case the school system will likely defend its failure to protect your son by denying that there was ever an issue - leaving you and your son hanging.

Document everything, in writing, to the school system. Take pictures and send them along with your letters. Talk to other parents who have kids in your son's class, call CPS for the kid that's doing the bullying, hire a lawyer and sue the school system and the parents of the kid that's acting out - but in today's PC world, do not let your son retaliate.

x2, so if your son does end up having to defend himself you have enough ammo to fight the school's "cover their ass" reaction.

I think as long as you have some pictures and documention of trying to work this out with the school, I'd tell him its okay to stand up for himself. Ultimately I think Frank is right if you fix the problem he will get a rep for not standing up for himself. If he does fight back other bullies will hear of it and stay clear. Unfortunately this is how bullies operate and schools are more afraid of a lawsuit than actually fixing the problems.

[Edit] Just read your last post about the school trying to make some accommodations for you and your son, I hope it works out for the best. Good luck!

[70rs]

x2, so if your son does end up having to defend himself you have enough ammo to fight the school's "cover their ass" reaction.

I think as long as you have some pictures and documention of trying to work this out with the school, I'd tell him its okay to stand up for himself. Ultimately I think Frank is right if you fix the problem he will get a rep for not standing up for himself. If he does fight back other bullies will hear of it and stay clear. Unfortunately this is how bullies operate and schools are more afraid of a lawsuit than actually fixing the problems.

[Edit] Just read your last post about the school trying to make some accommodations for you and your son, I hope it works out for the best. Good luck!



Thanks fro the input Ed.
I do agree about letting him handle it himself and the need for that and how it will stop this in the future. But at 5 years old I am not too worried about the reputation thing taking hold. Next year and beyond yes, right now and it being his first time in school (public school system for full days) I need to coach him through it and take the high road.
I have all of this documented, dates, events, conversations, school nurse reports, phone records, teachers in class reports, playground supervisor reports, and a lot more. I am in a position to sue and win. But that is not the goal and I really do not want to take it there unless I have to. It's not about money and suing will not help anyone in the long run. It's about my son being safe and about the school doing the job they are obligated to do but are not doing at all. I would rather force everyone to buck up and perform. Sometimes it takes a lawsuit and loss of jobs and or money before that happens. I would rather resolve it before it gets to that level. But I am ready if need be.

[syborg tt]

Wow Eric life with kids is fun isn't it.

Okay so I can empathize and sympathize with this situation.

First off as a child I was always the smallest kid in the class but somehow I managed to be friends with everyone. Once and a while I would have a tuff time with a bully but it seems some of my bigger friends would always come to my aid. As time went the problems stopped and what I have learned I am teaching to my children (two girls 7 & 9 ). First off you need to be nice to everyone including your sister. My wife and I stand a very firm ground on this and it's if either one of my daughters or my daughters friends talk poorly to each other in our presence the playing stops till there is an apology.

This may sound strange but trust me I am the Dad that takes all the kids everywhere. Every Wednesday night you will find me at the local McDonalds with all the kids and some of the Moms. I have had as many as 8 kids by myself and I keep them all in check. You should see me on Halloween when I take 10 or 12 of them trick or treating.

So here is where we were in the same situation.

My oldest and one of the girls from school started having problems (no physical violence but trust me girls are brutal). We took the same approach you did but just one step further. We decided to arrange a play date with the little girl and my daughter so we could supervise there playing. This was pretty easy to set up since we try to meet all of the kids parents right from the get go. Trust me this works great and you will be doing this all the way through high school or till your kids leave the nest.

If you can somehow manage to meet with this child's parents and try to work this out where you can get your son and the bully together they might be able to become friends. In the end it will work to everyone's benefit and it may even help this kid become a better person.

It may sound like a lot of work but it's part of being a "Good Parent." Two benefits will come from this your son will not feel like you protecting him & the bully will end up having someone to look up to.

Ps - call me tonight if you want

[70rs]

Wow Eric life with kids is fun isn't it.

Okay so I can empathize and sympathize with this situation.

First off as a child I was always the smallest kid in the class but somehow I managed to be friends with everyone. Once and a while I would have a tuff time with a bully but it seems some of my bigger friends would always come to my aid. As time went the problems stopped and what I have learned I am teaching to my children (two girls 7 & 9 ). First off you need to be nice to everyone including your sister. My wife and I stand a very firm ground on this and it's if either one of my daughters or my daughters friends talk poorly to each other in our presence the playing stops till there is an apology.

This may sound strange but trust me I am the Dad that takes all the kids everywhere. Every Wednesday night you will find me at the local McDonalds with all the kids and some of the Moms. I have had as many as 8 kids by myself and I keep them all in check. You should see me on Halloween when I take 10 or 12 of them trick or treating.

So here is where we were in the same situation.

My oldest and one of the girls from school started having problems (no physical violence but trust me girls are brutal). We took the same approach you did but just one step further. We decided to arrange a play date with the little girl and my daughter so we could supervise there playing. This was pretty easy to set up since we try to meet all of the kids parents right from the get go. Trust me this works great and you will be doing this all the way through high school or till your kids leave the nest.

If you can somehow manage to meet with this child's parents and try to work this out where you can get your son and the bully together they might be able to become friends. In the end it will work to everyone's benefit and it may even help this kid become a better person.

It may sound like a lot of work but it's part of being a "Good Parent." Two benefits will come from this your son will not feel like you protecting him & the bully will end up having someone to look up to.

Ps - call me tonight if you want


Thank you Marty. I can relate to the dad with the kids everywhere. I am him too.
I honestly had not even thought about what you suggested about getting the boys together like that. My focus has been on keeping them apart. But I sure can see where that would solve the issue and make a big difference in how they treat each other. My sons birthday is coming up soon, I will have to think about maybe inviting the other kid over if we do a party here. But then again maybe a meeting like that would be better one on one the first few times to establish a positive relationship first. (no other kids as distractions or influence).
I will give this some very serious consideration and talk it over with my wife as well.
I got your number, thanks again.

[syborg tt]

Since there kids the best place is to start at the park or a common ground that kids like. We have tons of small parks by us and I know which ones are good for this kind of supervision.

ps - Freshman year of High School I bumped a kid in line and he picked my up by my chest and told me he was going to kill me. I laughed at him and ever since that day we have been best friends. He was the best man at both of my wedding and we talk ever morning. He has become a brother to me.

Thank you Marty. I can relate to the dad with the kids everywhere. I am him too.
I honestly had not even thought about what you suggested about getting the boys together like that. My focus has been on keeping them apart. But I sure can see where that would solve the issue and make a big difference in how they treat each other. My sons birthday is coming up soon, I will have to think about maybe inviting the other kid over if we do a party here. But then again maybe a meeting like that would be better one on one the first few times to establish a positive relationship first. (no other kids as distractions or influence).
I will give this some very serious consideration and talk it over with my wife as well.
I got your number, thanks again.

[70rs]

Since there kids the best place is to start at the park or a common ground that kids like. We have tons of small parks by us and I know which ones are good for this kind of supervision.

ps - Freshman year of High School I bumped a kid in line and he picked my up by my chest and told me he was going to kill me. I laughed at him and ever since that day we have been best friends. He was the best man at both of my wedding and we talk ever morning. He has become a brother to me.

Very cool! It worked out great in your instance. In mine, getting beat up everyday in 6th grade didn't. It took until my 20 year reunion for HS and seeing the guy and finding out he has a miserable life alone, no kids, two ex wives, broke, a drunk,......when I found out all of that I felt this huge wieght off my shoulders and figured he got what he deserved. After 6th grade I stood my ground and got into plenty of "discussions" with guys that wanted to pick up where he left off (went to different schools after 6th) but I learned how to fight pretty well and got the rep of being the nice guy who didn't take any crap. I always treated people the way I wanted to be treated. It worked out well in life.
Thanks again for the advice. I do appreciate it and will give it some real consideration.

[mexMan]

I was kind of thinking that you could teach your kid some ''Pulp Fiction'' moves... o hand him a gun. Ok what do I know you say? I'm seventeen, I'm still at the age of the bullies and the crap, and you're right about not letting him fix it by his own, even if he can, he should not, BUT, he can't keep taking anymore **** from the bully, so if the bully comes close to him again and do something dangerous to him, he has to react, really, he has to do something by himself to, hes not made to take **** on anyone, but it's good you teach him not to be violent, but tell him he has to defend himself, and if he does, and it turns against you, legal way is always the best, you have proof and witnesses (at least I think) that you tried to do it the easy cool way, you have everything on your side if there are proof you already tried to do something about it.

You might ask, what experience do I have? I was a target too, my parents tried the same thing you're trying, and, well, talking with them, didn't work, talking with the parents didn't either, going harsh with them didn't either, what happened, is that they god mad and wiped my ass... All of them, together, at the same time, and you know what I still think about them? Pussies... Of course I taught them a lesson, I was young, I was 8, and I wiped their asses, one by one, because I had to... And then I got screwed because the teacher went into the classroom. At the principal's office they were all ''just because they do it you have to do it too?'', I said ''hey Sherlock, take some **** and don't defend yourself, I'm tired of that crap and I'm out of here'' I left the office, no one did anything to me again. Even though that crap is common, we have to take care of it by our ways too, because schools are busy enough to not handle the situations (this meaning they don't give a crap, I know the system), and sometimes and most of the cases, talking with the kids and all that pacific stuff, pisses them off a lot more. So, it's good to see that school tried to took care of it, but, for what I know, it might not work, and if I'm right, your kid will have to take it on his own hands.

[70rs]

I was kind of thinking that you could teach your kid some ''Pulp Fiction'' moves... o hand him a gun. Ok what do I know you say? I'm seventeen, I'm still at the age of the bullies and the crap, and you're right about not letting him fix it by his own, even if he can, he should not, BUT, he can't keep taking anymore **** from the bully, so if the bully comes close to him again and do something dangerous to him, he has to react, really, he has to do something by himself to, hes not made to take **** on anyone, but it's good you teach him not to be violent, but tell him he has to defend himself, and if he does, and it turns against you, legal way is always the best, you have proof and witnesses (at least I think) that you tried to do it the easy cool way, you have everything on your side if there are proof you already tried to do something about it.

You might ask, what experience do I have? I was a target too, my parents tried the same thing you're trying, and, well, talking with them, didn't work, talking with the parents didn't either, going harsh with them didn't either, what happened, is that they god mad and wiped my ass... All of them, together, at the same time, and you know what I still think about them? Pussies... Of course I taught them a lesson, I was young, I was 8, and I wiped their asses, one by one, because I had to... And then I got screwed because the teacher went into the classroom. At the principal's office they were all ''just because they do it you have to do it too?'', I said ''hey Sherlock, take some **** and don't defend yourself, I'm tired of that crap and I'm out of here'' I left the office, no one did anything to me again. Even though that crap is common, we have to take care of it by our ways too, because schools are busy enough to not handle the situations (this meaning they don't give a crap, I know the system), and sometimes and most of the cases, talking with the kids and all that pacific stuff, pisses them off a lot more. So, it's good to see that school tried to took care of it, but, for what I know, it might not work, and if I'm right, your kid will have to take it on his own hands.

I understand what you mean. And I had to take care of it on my own as a kid too. But at his current age, and the way this world is with lawsuits I need to deal with this one. There will come a time when he has to handle it on his own and I will support him in that as well. For now he will defend himself in the way of blocking at this point. If it comes to a point where he needs to knock the crap out of the kid he will. But for now I will deal with it this way first.
Thanks for the advice though.:thumbsup:

[Pdale]

I raised 3 boys. As much as I hate to say it, if he kicks that kids ass in front of everyone, he will probably get suspended, but won't have to worry about this stuff ANYMORE! If he continues to handle this through "the system". there is another bully waiting where this one left off. But sometimes, if not all, that kid needs someone to beat him back so he doesn't continue treating people like that and the sooner the better. I understand not wanting to raise your kid to be violent but he has to know it's okay to defend himself. Maybe not beat the crap out of the kid but if the kid punches him in the face he should swing back. Not beat the crap out of him, just pop him back. Assertive and strong so the bully knows he's not afraid of him and he won't let someone treat him like that. Because the bully is only picking on him because he's not defending himself. And it really can't be good for your kids self-esteem. He may know he can beat the kid but it's got to be imbarrassing to let the bully mess with him. Getting that kid removed from that class just probably just make things worse. Then he'll be picking on him at recess and lunch and/or waiting of him before and after school and he'll blame your son for "getting him in trouble" and then what? One day that bully might push him too far and your kid might really hurt him. Or the bully might do something extreme to try to get him to fight back and hurt your son. He should never start anything though. I was in a few fights between kindergarden, 1st, and 2nd grade. I never started any of them and I put up with a lot of stuff but when I had to fight back I did and I never had a problem with anyone after. I didn't beat up the kid, most of the got broken up pretty quickly, and no one ever got punished. May have just been luck but I honestly don't understand how the school could punish someone of standing up to that kind of behavior, though I know it happenes. I even got in a fight with a kid in the 1st grade because he was messing with someone, not really my friend but it was really bad what he was doing to him and after he never messed with anybody as far as I know. The kid just needed to be shown that what he was doing was wrong and those kind of people don't really respond to being told no matter the age. So I'm not saying he should just start fighting everyone that gives him a hard time but I think he should stand up for himself. And when you do decide it's time for him to stand up for himself, try to go over the kinds of things that should be, not allowable but understandable for fighting back. That part I believe is very important and should be done the sooner the better. Just my opinion but whatever happens I hope everything turns out for the better.

[70rs]

I have talked some more with my son about this. And his martial arts teacher. My son is very aware that he has the right and that he should defend himself at all times. He knows that I will back him up and he will NOT get in any trouble from me for responding to this kid and kicking the hell out of him. My son does not want to. And I like that. He just wants it to stop. We agreed that I would try to take care of it. And I have (more in a minute on that). He knows that if the other kid even so much as touches him in an aggressive way that he has open season on his ass. The school knows he is able to do this. If it comes to the point where my son has had enough he will take care of it. We are on a whole new level with this now.

The school has taken extreme measures with the other child and his parents. The state agencies that should be involved are now. The school district superintendant has now gotten involved too. My son will be safe. The other kid is now getting some professional help and he really needs it. It turns out his home life is much worse than we all thought. Honestly, the LAST thing that kid needs is a beatdown by my son. I want to see him taken care of in a positive way and have a better life.
After talking with the school some more today and having more information all the way around it has only confirmed to me that I went the right direction in holding my son back and insisting the school help the other kid as much as I insisted they keep my son safe.

And I got the news this morning that the principal is "retiring" NOW. They are actively looking for a replacement for the position and the vice principal is filling in.

Had my son beat this kid it would have done a few really bad things.
1 It would have opened me up to being sued.
2 It would have gotten him suspended and a bad mark on his records that will follow him everywhere.
3 It woud NOT have taught the other kid anything he does not already know all too well.
4 It would have taken everyone involved ten steps back in trying to find a solution.

It looks like we have a positive solution for everyone right now. They do know (the school and district office) that if there is even any kind of MINOR incident that I will move forward with some very serious legal action and will include the media.

There is just no room for this in school. If you have any doubt about what bullying can do to a kid look at the recent news in Tx about a 9 year old in 4th grade who just hung himself in the nurses restroom. While she was just outside the door. It is a serious issue, and without getting to the source (bad parents and bullys) it will never get resolved.
36 kids between 5 years old and 13 years old in the last 7 years have commited suicide. Almost all of those were related to a bully issue in some way. My son will not be a statistic. I am just trying to be a good parent, and a good person. My son was not the only one hurting here. He is doing GREAT and loves school. The other kid is not doing so well. He needs outside help and now he is getting it. The state will force the issue with his parents and remove him from the home if they feel he is in need of that.

Thanks again to everyone for the support and advice. All of it has been a great help. I will keep this thread updated if anything happens. No news is good news. :thumbsup:

[mdprovee]

Eric,

I REALLY have to commend you for your level headedness. You didnt react like we all want to when our kids get picked on, including me. You showed great restraint, and pursued the issue as needed. You are a stand up guy, and a GREAT example of a parent.

:cheers:

[70rs]

Eric,

I REALLY have to commend you for your level headedness. You didnt react like we all want to when our kids get picked on, including me. You showed great restraint, and pursued the issue as needed. You are a stand up guy, and a GREAT example of a parent.

:cheers:

THANKS Mike! I really appreciate hearing that. It was not easy at all to keep my head on straight. My first reaction was to want my kid to clean his clock. And for me to do the same to the kids dad. But I have to teach by example and something that has the potential to get as crazy as this could had to be handled the right way.I just want the kids safe. At home, school or anywhere. And it became apparent that the other kid was in a world of hurt and needed as much if not more help than my own son. Gotta do what's right ya know! Thanks again Mike, it means a lot to hear that.:cheers:

[tones2SS]

Sounds like things are going to be ok now. I hope that is the case.
GOOD LUCK BUD!:cheers:

[70rs]

Sounds like things are going to be ok now. I hope that is the case.
GOOD LUCK BUD!:cheers:

So far so good. Thanks Tony!:thumbsup:

[comp-spec]

GREAT example of a good parent.
Best luck with your boy

[70rs]

GREAT example of a good parent.
Best luck with your boy

Thank you Pete, that means a lot to me.

How is your grandbaby and daughter doing? I hope everyone is well. We need a picture of the little one.:thumbsup:

[Beegs]

Eric, you have done the right thing and have exhausted all ways to handle this situation. I hope it all works out...please keep us updated! :thumbsup:

[rwhite692]

Eric I had missed this thread, nothing more to add (my oldest is only 3.5 so my experience is quite limited!) but it sounds like you have handled it very well. Hope the situation stabilizes for you. -Rob

[70rs]

Thanks Bryan and Rob,
So far it seems to be ok. The teacher is really happy I took it to the level I did since she was getting no support from the principal. And that he is retiring now is just icing on the cake. I am VERY happy about that.
The school has really stepped up and helped the other kid too. I hope they keep the pressure on the state and other parents and follow through for him.
My son is doing great. He is happy the other kid is leaving him alone and he seems much more relaxed now.
I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again for all of the good advice and kind words.

[Mkelcy]

Sometimes it's hardest to do the right thing. You did. Congratulations. Your kid and the bully are both lucky they have you.

[tones2SS]

Thanks Bryan and Rob,
So far it seems to be ok. The teacher is really happy I took it to the level I did since she was getting no support from the principal. And that he is retiring now is just icing on the cake. I am VERY happy about that.

I wonder if he is retiring because of what was going on and his handling of the situation?
Either way, it's all good!!!:thumbsup: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[GM Muscle]

i grew up with a martial arts background. my parents gave me a real simpe set of rules

1)there is never a good reason to lie
2)you never throw the first punch
3)you can do what ever you want as long as you are willing to accept the consequences...

These were the rules that were layed out for me. i must admit im a "good" kid.
im 26 and have never done any drugs. never been to jail, never been into any real trouble.

with that being said i think that you are trying to make a passive approach to your sons situation which is very admirable, BUT one day your son will have to take a stand. I think your doing a great job handling the situation but at the same time this new era of kids has no respect or morale.. just keep that in the back of your head when the next bully comes around.. when little girls are capable of hazing another one into a coma its clear that the only reason these kids keep bullying is because they have no consequences for their actions. one day our son will have to be the consequence...

[70rs]

i grew up with a martial arts background. my parents gave me a real simpe set of rules

1)there is never a good reason to lie
2)you never throw the first punch
3)you can do what ever you want as long as you are willing to accept the consequences...

These were the rules that were layed out for me. i must admit im a "good" kid.
im 26 and have never done any drugs. never been to jail, never been into any real trouble.

with that being said i think that you are trying to make a passive approach to your sons situation which is very admirable, BUT one day your son will have to take a stand. I think your doing a great job handling the situation but at the same time this new era of kids has no respect or morale.. just keep that in the back of your head when the next bully comes around.. when little girls are capable of hazing another one into a coma its clear that the only reason these kids keep bullying is because they have no consequences for their actions. one day our son will have to be the consequence...


I totally agree with what you are saying. And I know there will be a time that he has to deal with something like this first hand. My biggest concern about this one is my sons age and it is his first year in school. I had to show him that there is a way to handle it without fighting. BUT.....he DOES know that he may have no choice and need to make some other kid understand where he is coming from too. He is a smart kid. He will do what is right based on the situation. An example of why he DIDN'T fight back on two occasions was that the other kid threw stuff from a distance, the teacher saw, he got busted. Now if my son had run over and kicked his ass in front of all the other 5 year olds he would have been in huge trouble with the school (not me though) and he would have been suspended. When the kid punched him in the eye they were standing in line ready to go to the lunch room, the kid was behind him and pushed my son forward hard. When my son turned to see what the deal was and told him to stop it the kid called him stupid and punched him in the right eye. My son did hit him back (three hard rapid punches in the chest) and knocked him down(made him cry too:D ). But the kid didn't learn and still kept throwing stuff, kicking him then running away....that kind of crap. He is a sneaky little sh**.
So my son did fight back when it was needed and possible while in front of each other. After that most incidents involved something being thrown so my son could not reach him. He knows better than to chase him down and beat him up. He handled it right as far as I am concerned. His school teacher and martial arts teacher also agree he did well. I had to get involved to get it to stop. And it seems to be handled at this point. Brenden (my son) knows that if the kid does ANYTHING to him in the future that he can and should unload on him.

[GM Muscle]

good deal. im glad your kid's on the right track. the kids these days are just flat out weird!! i think no one being held accountable for their actions (parents and kids) is the root of most of the problems everyone faces these days..

[70rs]

good deal. im glad your kid's on the right track. the kids these days are just flat out weird!! i think no one being held accountable for their actions (parents and kids) is the root of most of the problems everyone faces these days..

That is just it. No one is being called out on what they do anymore. It is all about who can come up with the best excuse or who is better at pointing fingers.
But in the end all we can do is keep our own side of the street clean.

I see some STELLAR examples of parents around here. It amazes me that someone thinks a crying 2 year old needs a serious spanking in a public store (or at all for that matter) just because they are crying. Or because the asked for something in the store and the parent beats them instead of explaining to them why they can't have it. Kids are a direct product of the environment they are raised in. But the parents raising these little monsters will not take ANY responsibility for what they have done. Unfortunatley a lot of the time the only way to get someones attention these days is with a trip to jail or court getting sued.
I am shocked at how some people treat their kids. I see it all the time. I saw a lady reach into her back seat and slap her baby in the face just the other day. The baby had to be under two years old and was crying for some reason. Maybe the kid dropped a toy? Maybe it was hungry? Maybe needed a change of diaper? I don't know. But I can not think of ANY good reason to slap a baby for crying. Why not get out of the car, off her fat ass, put the cigarette down and see what the kid needs. Then provide what it needs. Be a parent, not a "keeper". I was so pissed at her I could not see straight. Unfortunatley she was in the turn lane next to me and went in a different direction when the light changed, I didn't get a look at the lic plate.

I think there should be a test of some sort for anyone who wants to have a kid. Make sure they have the common sense and can handle it before running off and having a whole soccer team of future felons. Just my .02 on that.

[70rs]

Hey guys,
I just wanted to update this and let everyone know that the school has really taken this issue seriously. So far everything they said they would do they have done. And there have been ZERO problems so far. I couldn't be happier. And my son is getting back in the groove of things again and seems much more relaxed at home and at school.

I wanted to thank everyone for the advice, opinions and help since I posted the problem. The amount of goodwill here is just amazing. Thanks again guys!

:cheers:

[dezl]

good deal man, glad everything worked out!

[tones2SS]

Very good to hear Eric. That is great news for your entire family.
GOOD DEAL!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[coolwelder62]

Rising a child is the important & hardess job in the world.And any goof ball is aloud to do it.Every child is important and should be risied that way.They need to be taught right & wrong.When they are not loved or taught the right way to treat there fellow man that when these types of problems come up.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[1970camaroRS]

I think there should be a test of some sort for anyone who wants to have a kid. Make sure they have the common sense and can handle it before running off and having a whole soccer team of future felons. Just my .02 on that.

We would all fail.

[novanutcase]

Hey guys,
I just wanted to update this and let everyone know that the school has really taken this issue seriously. So far everything they said they would do they have done. And there have been ZERO problems so far. I couldn't be happier. And my son is getting back in the groove of things again and seems much more relaxed at home and at school.

I wanted to thank everyone for the advice, opinions and help since I posted the problem. The amount of goodwill here is just amazing. Thanks again guys!

:cheers:

Hi Eric,

After reading this thread I really have to commend you on taking the route you did although I don't think I would have been as tolerant or patient as you and would have taken Franks advice at a much earlier point. I agree with Frank that the social structure that exists in grade school almost demands that that type of response be made although I understand your hesitance that he do this at such an early age.

One question I do have is, although the school is doing everything they said they would, how long will they be doing this? To have an assistant standing around in class to keep this kid under control is EXPENSIVE for the school district! Once the staff and the district feel that the problem has been "solved" they'll probably pull the assistant. Once he's gone the problem will still be there. Maybe that's why I lean a little more towards Franks suggestion as the same thing happened to my son. Some kid was bullying him and the school district was doing nothing about it even though I had countless meetings with them. In my last meeting I gave the staff an ultimatum that if they were going to let this persist that my attorney would be contacting the school districts attorney and I would give my son free reign on this kids face. They still did nothing and my son came home with some bruises on his arm. I had had enough. I told him that if ANYONE tried to hurt him that he had every right to defend himself. About a week later I get a call from the principal telling me my son had attacked this kid! Luckily I had documented our past meetings and brought all my paperwork along with my attorney to the meeting.

Boy did they're attitude change once my attorney showed up!

They assured me that they would take care of the matter, blah blah blah!

BS! I told them that it was too late and that I was preparing legal action against the teacher, the principal and the district. I gathered my son and my attorney and I left the meeting. I don't thing we got past the parking lot when my attorneys cell phone rings. Guess who was calling him? The LAUSD attorneys office!

Suffice to say that my sons record was wiped clean and the kid never bothered my son again!

John

[70rs]

Hi Eric,

After reading this thread I really have to commend you on taking the route you did although I don't think I would have been as tolerant or patient as you and would have taken Franks advice at a much earlier point. I agree with Frank that the social structure that exists in grade school almost demands that that type of response be made although I understand your hesitance that he do this at such an early age.

One question I do have is, although the school is doing everything they said they would, how long will they be doing this? To have an assistant standing around in class to keep this kid under control is EXPENSIVE for the school district! Once the staff and the district feel that the problem has been "solved" they'll probably pull the assistant. Once he's gone the problem will still be there. Maybe that's why I lean a little more towards Franks suggestion as the same thing happened to my son. Some kid was bullying him and the school district was doing nothing about it even though I had countless meetings with them. In my last meeting I gave the staff an ultimatum that if they were going to let this persist that my attorney would be contacting the school districts attorney and I would give my son free reign on this kids face. They still did nothing and my son came home with some bruises on his arm. I had had enough. I told him that if ANYONE tried to hurt him that he had every right to defend himself. About a week later I get a call from the principal telling me my son had attacked this kid! Luckily I had documented our past meetings and brought all my paperwork along with my attorney to the meeting.

Boy did they're attitude change once my attorney showed up!

They assured me that they would take care of the matter, blah blah blah!

BS! I told them that it was too late and that I was preparing legal action against the teacher, the principal and the district. I gathered my son and my attorney and I left the meeting. I don't thing we got past the parking lot when my attorneys cell phone rings. Guess who was calling him? The LAUSD attorneys office!

Suffice to say that my sons record was wiped clean and the kid never bothered my son again!

John


John,
Believe me, the next step is my son cleaning his clock and my attorney cleaning the school districts. I know it is a matter of time before they think the problem is "solved" and remove any supervision from the other kid. I HOPE that the counseling and intervention in his home by the state will work to keep any future incidents from happening. But I am also realistic and know that the odds of that are slim. It will come down to my son defending himself with force. And at that time the legal crap gets deep. But I have everything documented and I have done everything a responsible parent should do to fix this mess. If it comes to my son beating the other kid, so be it. At least we tried. But I had to take the high road FIRST. For many reasons.
Thanks for the advice. I do appreciate all of it.

[70rs]

Quick update.

There has been drastic improvements with this issue. My son has been happier at school. The other boy that was the problem has been getting A LOT of attention from the school staff and is headed in the right direction at this point. He needed some serious help and guidance and is getting it.
So overall it has improved by leaps and bounds. It has not been without it's little speed bumps but overall much better for everyone involved.

Thanks again to everyone who offered input. All of it was of great help in getting this handled.
Have a great weekend everyone!:cheers:

[tones2SS]

Good to hear buddy.
Have a good one.:thumbsup:

[Wayne S]

Just read the whole thread. Eric, you handled the situation very maturely. Congratulations. I'm glad the system finally took you seriously and got their ducks in a row and remedied the situation. As a father of 4, 10 yr old girl, almost 8 yr old girl, and 6 yr old twins - boy and girl, I've had to deal with this a couple times myself, but on a lesser level.

We had a boy on the bus be mean to my middle daughter, and after a couple instances when he wouldn't stop, I went on the bus and told the bus driver, and then told her that my daughter wanted to point him out to me, which she said was okay. So as my daughter was pointing to him, he looked up from behind the seat, and I gave him the "look". That's all it really took for him, and then the bullying stopped.

Something similar happened to my oldest daughter, but it was another girl, talking and being mean to her. It turned out that I knew, and was friends with, the parents. I told my daughter to tell the girl that I wanted to know how Dusty and Tina (the parents) were doing and wanted to get together with them sometime. Well, that little bit of info changed the girl's attitude and she has been nice to my daughter ever since.

So kudos to you and your son. Hope it stays good for him.

[70rs]

Thanks Wayne. So far so good. I am glad it has gone the way it has. The other boy was needing some help too. It looks (right now anyway) that it is working well for everyone.:thumbsup:

[2Bad4Ya]

You may not like my suggestion but...

Let the your son handle the situation 1 time. I betcha the other kid will not bother him again. Its cool that your teaching him to not address his issues with violance, but you also need to teach him that unless he puts a stop to it himself then the kid will continue to hassle him.

This pattern will follow your son thru life, as he grows older he will encounter situations where others are testing him and once they see he will not respond they will continue to hassle him.

I still see it every day and I work in an office, women and men push other around and take advantage of each other because they know who they can get by with it on. Teach our son humilty indeed but also teach them to take no crap! Its no place for the meek anymore. Kids are cruel and as he gets older he will get major grief from other kids if he does not stop the bullying himself in manners other than telling an adult. Sadly its the way it is.

I mean no offense, but think about it... you had to threaten legal action before the school stepped up. You had gone to the school and they did nothing until you stood up for your family, which is not violence but it is a form of defense. And I betcha the school will not give you gruff any further, because you showed them you would not be bullied.

The point is dad will not always be able to fight the sons battles and the son does need to know not to let people take advtange of him.

[Pdale]

Whatever your opinion on this situation was I think we can all agree the it's a bad F'ing joke that it took so much for the school to get serious about it

[70rs]

You may not like my suggestion but...

Let the your son handle the situation 1 time. I betcha the other kid will not bother him again. Its cool that your teaching him to not address his issues with violance, but you also need to teach him that unless he puts a stop to it himself then the kid will continue to hassle him.

This pattern will follow your son thru life, as he grows older he will encounter situations where others are testing him and once they see he will not respond they will continue to hassle him.

I still see it every day and I work in an office, women and men push other around and take advantage of each other because they know who they can get by with it on. Teach our son humilty indeed but also teach them to take no crap! Its no place for the meek anymore. Kids are cruel and as he gets older he will get major grief from other kids if he does not stop the bullying himself in manners other than telling an adult. Sadly its the way it is.

I mean no offense, but think about it... you had to threaten legal action before the school stepped up. You had gone to the school and they did nothing until you stood up for your family, which is not violence but it is a form of defense. And I betcha the school will not give you gruff any further, because you showed them you would not be bullied.

The point is dad will not always be able to fight the sons battles and the son does need to know not to let people take advtange of him.

Whatever your opinion on this situation was I think we can all agree the it's a bad F'ing joke that it took so much for the school to get serious about it
2bad
I do agree with you 100% at this point. And have made sure my son knows that he may need to step it up himself. However because it was the very first time he had been in school and because of his age I stepped in to show him what should be done FIRST. His Taekwondo(senior yellow belt now) teacher is showing what will need to be done in the future. He is no pushover. He had just never been in a situation like this before. Now he knows how to deal with it and that if he REALLY NEEDS me to be there I am. But he has a very good grip on the differences. Thanks for your input.:cheers:


Pdale
I also agree with you on this one. They all (except the teacher, she's great) sat on thumbs and looked the other way until I forced the issue. I am happy that they are still doing a good job though. It just took a serious kick in the collective ass to get it done.:cheers:

[69MyWay]

We all hate a bully - and I think the bully even hates himself, or why else act like that.

My son just turned 6 and is very small for his age. He is more of a thinker than a physical activity do-er. I mean...when other kids are running around whacking each other he is usually playing lego, cars, or drawing pictures. So between being small and not being aggressive he seems to be a target for bullies.

I dread this day, but I know it is coming. My wife is a school teacher and knows the system and is able to have great influence on his behavior..etc.

With all that said, it brings back memories. I attracted a bully in middle school that pursued me ruthlessly in the halls and stairways giving me written, verbal, and body language threats for months. Other kids got into it with him.

I took several years of Karate as a kid and knew enough to defend myself, but I didn't want to go there.

One day we were walking out of math class and they were following me. I remember one of them said "Look...he's pulling ahead" trying to make a stupid 6th grade sexual joke.... They followed me into the stair well as my blood was boiling and the one big kid had started walking behind me and pushing/shoving me. He had a good 8" and 40 to 50 lbs on me.

I remember just seeing red. I grabbed him at the top of the strairs and pulled him down them with me. We rolled out of the stairs onto the back lawn and I beat the crap out of him. His buddies just watched. No teacher, no adult around. I beat him until he quit fighting back, then I beat him some more. He went home bloody and swollen - my fists hurt.

I hadn't involved my parents in this before because my dad traveled all the time and I didn't have confidence my mom could do anything - and I daily hoped it would just stop.

Anyway - nobody messed with me after that. Didn't get caught, didn't get reported - and walked away with my dignity. The next day in school he looked like a bus had run over him. I still don't know how I didn't get expelled for that - but it speaks volumes of his homelife that nothing was said or done (that I will ever know of).

Turns out he was one of four over my whole school career that I can remember that I ended up fighting back after much patients and much humiliation from their insults and physical attacks. In every case, after I fought back the issue died.

Crazy memories......

[70rs]

We all hate a bully - and I think the bully even hates himself, or why else act like that.

My son just turned 6 and is very small for his age. He is more of a thinker than a physical activity do-er. I mean...when other kids are running around whacking each other he is usually playing lego, cars, or drawing pictures. So between being small and not being aggressive he seems to be a target for bullies.

I dread this day, but I know it is coming. My wife is a school teacher and knows the system and is able to have great influence on his behavior..etc.

With all that said, it brings back memories. I attracted a bully in middle school that pursued me ruthlessly in the halls and stairways giving me written, verbal, and body language threats for months. Other kids got into it with him.

I took several years of Karate as a kid and knew enough to defend myself, but I didn't want to go there.

One day we were walking out of math class and they were following me. I remember one of them said "Look...he's pulling ahead" trying to make a stupid 6th grade sexual joke.... They followed me into the stair well as my blood was boiling and the one big kid had started walking behind me and pushing/shoving me. He had a good 8" and 40 to 50 lbs on me.

I remember just seeing red. I grabbed him at the top of the strairs and pulled him down them with me. We rolled out of the stairs onto the back lawn and I beat the crap out of him. His buddies just watched. No teacher, no adult around. I beat him until he quit fighting back, then I beat him some more. He went home bloody and swollen - my fists hurt.

I hadn't involved my parents in this before because my dad traveled all the time and I didn't have confidence my mom could do anything - and I daily hoped it would just stop.

Anyway - nobody messed with me after that. Didn't get caught, didn't get reported - and walked away with my dignity. The next day in school he looked like a bus had run over him. I still don't know how I didn't get expelled for that - but it speaks volumes of his homelife that nothing was said or done (that I will ever know of).

Turns out he was one of four over my whole school career that I can remember that I ended up fighting back after much patients and much humiliation from their insults and physical attacks. In every case, after I fought back the issue died.

Crazy memories......

Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate it. I had a similar experience. In 6th grade I was the target. I had braces and a few kids thought it was fun to punch me in the mouth....daily. School did nothing. Mom was at her wits end. Dad was in another part of the state. I put up with it until summer. Then I grew in size and confidence. 7th grade was different. I was bigger than them and fed up and determined to not have it continue. The first time the main bully tried something at lunch I got the upper hand and "curbed" his face on the edge of the lunch table. He lost teeth that day and every bit of desire to pick on me. His buddies laughed at him and left me alone too. I did feel bad and got in A LOT of trouble for it. But I did what needed to be done. I got lucky. I am no prize fighter or some badass by any stretch. He just screwed up and underestimated my anger. Shortly after I moved away and never had another issue with bullies. I think it was a reflection of my confidence or something. I always got along with everyone after that. I still hate that guy though. And recently saw him at a(he was not from the school, just a guest of a fellow student) reunion. But he is a single and miserable drunk with no life. I guess what goes around comes around. I heard he was an ass all through school.

[2Bad4Ya]

" I think it was a reflection of my confidence or something."

How we carry ourselves determines the events around us. A mugger is less likely to jump the person who is alert and observent of their surroundings, and more likely to attack the person lost in thought or not willing to make eye contact.

How you carry yourself does more than many think. When interviewing for a job, the confident eye contact outward appearance can trump a person with great qualifications if they are withdrawn.

A guy will look at a girl who is walking uprite and bouncy before the girl who slouches and skulks along, a girl is going to be more drawn to a guy who is upright and chest out that a hunched over belly leading sloth.

A bully will only target those they think are weak, and how you carry yourself is the initial way to judge someone. The culling of the weak in nature is similar. Have your son walk tall, look at people approaching, even give them a nod or say sup.

Its sad but life is just like prison, gotta take down the biggest mofo around so nobody gives ya crap sometimes!

[skooli]

My hat's off to you for teaching your son a good lesson. I think you'll be surprised at how the way you dealt with this issue will influence his future behavior. I hope I have the same kind of patience if my kid gets in this position. I'm curious, do you know if this kid just focused on your son, or did he pick on other kids as well?

[70rs]

" I think it was a reflection of my confidence or something."

How we carry ourselves determines the events around us. A mugger is less likely to jump the person who is alert and observent of their surroundings, and more likely to attack the person lost in thought or not willing to make eye contact.

How you carry yourself does more than many think. When interviewing for a job, the confident eye contact outward appearance can trump a person with great qualifications if they are withdrawn.

A guy will look at a girl who is walking uprite and bouncy before the girl who slouches and skulks along, a girl is going to be more drawn to a guy who is upright and chest out that a hunched over belly leading sloth.

A bully will only target those they think are weak, and how you carry yourself is the initial way to judge someone. The culling of the weak in nature is similar. Have your son walk tall, look at people approaching, even give them a nod or say sup.

Its sad but life is just like prison, gotta take down the biggest mofo around so nobody gives ya crap sometimes!

I couldn't agree more. And that is where we are now.:thumbsup:

[70rs]

My hat's off to you for teaching your son a good lesson. I think you'll be surprised at how the way you dealt with this issue will influence his future behavior. I hope I have the same kind of patience if my kid gets in this position. I'm curious, do you know if this kid just focused on your son, or did he pick on other kids as well?

I am told my son was about 90% or more of that kids focus. My son is very popular with all of the other kids and always gets a lot of attention from them. The bully kid was on the other end of the spectrum. He was always negative, mean and not open to "playing well" with the other kids. I am told that most of the kids in the class "gravitate to my son". (teachers words). In her opinion the bully targeted my son since he was the focus of positive attention by classmates. I guess the bully was trying to get attention himself and thought by picking on my son it would work. And in a way it did. He got a lot of negative attention. But it is still attention.

[Ron Fox]

I just read your thread for the first time, Eric. You chose the correct avenues to get the problem taken care of. You did good by taking this route and teaching your son an important lesson in life that there are different ways, non violent ways, to solve a problem. It's good to hear things are working out.

Be positive and keep the Faith!

[70rs]

Thanks Ron, I do appreciate it.
I am really happy things are going smooth now. :thumbsup:

[David Pozzi]

The lawyer will probably ask you for dates and specifics, be ready to provide detailed information about each incident. The more documentation the better. A kid that age shouldn't have to worry about a Bully confronting him on a daily basis. :mad:

[70rs]

The lawyer will probably ask you for dates and specifics, be ready to provide detailed information about each incident. The more documentation the better. A kid that age shouldn't have to worry about a Bully confronting him on a daily basis. :mad:

Thanks for the advice David. I do have all of the things you mentioned documented along with the reports the nurse or any other staff have to fill out for any incidents. I think (hope) I have all of my bases pretty well covered right now. And you're right, no kid that age should have a bully issue. At the same time no kid that age should BE the bully either. I can only imagine what he has gone through to get that way. He had to learn it somewhere.