MMM ... 1965 Mustang Bumpsteering Issue ... MMM

[George Manont]

.



Hi,


I'm experiencing something call bumpsteering ( front-end swaying when hits bump )


I've tried to find a true correction practice but seems like I'm hitting the wall.


Any advices / experiences sharing are appreciated.


.

[deuce_454]

relocating the upper arms and moving the steeringarm mount will make a world of difference.. (first link)

http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/product.php?productid=2708&cat=2491&page=1

The cheaper kit doesnt quicken the steering, or fix the suspension geometry.. but it cures bumpsteer (but wears fast)

http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/Bump-Steer-Corrector-Kits-c-3205/

[George Manont]

relocating the upper arms and moving the steeringarm mount will make a world of difference.. (first link)

http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/product.php?productid=2708&cat=2491&page=1

The cheaper kit doesnt quicken the steering, or fix the suspension geometry.. but it cures bumpsteer (but wears fast)

http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/Bump-Steer-Corrector-Kits-c-3205/




Hi Deuce,


Thanks much !


I may try with the cheaper kit.

The Wear-fast is to what part ? The naked ball joint ?


Appreciated it.


Cheers,



GM.



.

[deuce_454]

correct.. the naked balljoint will wear faster than you think... and every time it does you need to get it realligned, so the joy of the lower price may well be eclipsed by the aggravation of having bought an inferior product :unibrow: but it depends on how much you use the car and what your budget is.. i mean there is no point in getting a cool suspension gizmo if it means you cant put gas in the car.. :D

i can really recommend mustangsplus by the way, and their suspension packages allong with the upper arm relocation kit ..(the relocation is THE most impressive mod you can do to a mustang... it changes the cambergain from positive to negative... and totally changes the front suspension characteristics from a mid 60ies so-so handling car, into a cornercarver...!)
.. will change your car into somthing you want to drive every day...

[latamud]

Talk to John at http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/

[George Manont]

Hi Deuce & Latamud,


Thanks again for advice & reco.


The merits are there, it's now in my court to decide.



Will let you know the outcome !


Appreciated it.


Cheers,



GM.




.

[George Manont]

.



Guys,


I appreciated all your recommendations / suggestions. After some deep study I said to myself I will take on the problem on “ Bumpsteering “ , based on knowledge I have gathered from you.


As I understand, in order to get out of the Bumpsteer issue, I must have the tie rod end level to the lower control arm.


Here’s how we’ve done to correct to issue ;


1. Level of the tie rod end in relation to the lower control arm. They are NOT in parallel. ( BEFORE picture )

http://image.ohozaa.com/i5/04rodendolda.jpg (http://image.ohozaa.com/show.php?id=8f111edde837b7018c433a511c2fca44)



2. I bought a new tie rod end that’s a bit longer arm but still have the same strut height. ( Avoid using the wear-fast NAKED ball joint )

http://image.ohozaa.com/im/05connectingrodcomparea.jpg (http://image.ohozaa.com/show.php?id=05c091fb59115bbeaee4135c7a233084)




3. A spacer, made out of high grade steel, was made in the same shape … then fit OVER the standard strut. ( screwed on with locking pin in-placed )

http://image.ohozaa.com/ia/05connectingrodcomparec.jpg (http://image.ohozaa.com/show.php?id=7e2eb5021f319896fad7f9edc45c3cae)




4. Installation needed some adjustment and patients.

http://image.ohozaa.com/i0/06installationa.jpg (http://image.ohozaa.com/show.php?id=c9ccbefa85006645309aa4168a2c8c9c)



5. Level of the tie rod end is now in parallel to the lower control arm. ( AFTER picture )

http://image.ohozaa.com/i3/04rodendoldb.jpg (http://image.ohozaa.com/show.php?id=21b82f14e4f7f031fd1c38d195080181)




Driving is now firm. Almost all swervings, swayings are gone.


Integrity of standard ball joint is still there. ( vs. the NAKED ball joint that prone to be damaged easily / weared fast , as told by Deuce 454, thanks…Mr.D ! )



Thanks to you all !



GM.




.

[JRouche]

I gotta say, very ingenious.. I like thinking outta the box.

I dont usually like to pick apart guys modifications. But when it comes to two systems, braking and steering I like to lean towards safety. You loose any of those two systems and there is some carnage in the future.

Sounds like you got a piece of "high grade steel" for the adapter. What exactly was the high grade steel and what was the heat treatment on it? I ask cause its a hex shape. I dont know why you used that shape. Im assuming you had a machine shop with heat treating capabilities make the adapter? Im hoping they didnt use a piece of stock that was machinable for the socket side and it wasnt heat treated.

It just worries me to see a hex shape in there when I dont see a need for the shape. Scrap stock on hand comes to mind. Not good.

Then more importantly. The original ball joint was NOT designed to take the additional loads that you are putting on it, the stud mainly.

Dont get me wrong. I love great fixes. And hate to hear all the nay-sayers. But with some critical systems I would like to throw out some simple advice.

The spacer? Is it the hex piece with a tapered bore for the original pin? Then how is the new tapered pin attached to the hex?

It just looks a lil scary to me. Im not sure I like that mod. JR

[deuce_454]

nice fix.. there is however a geometry issue with your car that i think is the cause of your handling woes.. and that is that the rack is too wide, if you kook an the oem centerlink it places the inner steering joints so they articulate the outer steering arms in an arch that is close to the lower controll arm..

when you moove that mounting point outwards you will generate bumpsteer prety much what ever you do, unless you limit suspension movement all together..

your fix would be to mount a different rack, like that found on a saab 900/93 from 95-02 and mount the oem ford center link to it (it moves the center part and is fixed in the ends) and adjusting the height of the centerlink to eliminate bumpsteed....

[George Manont]

.



Hi JRouche,


That's a good education there, thanks for the tips.


It's prompted me to go back & have a look at the HEX material. I checked all the way back to the importer and received some assurance that it was meant for truck wheel fasteners, which can handle both torque and pressure. They also guarantee that the steel is as strong , or probably even stronger than the type use in the standard ball joint. ( Grade AISI 1035 - 1037 )


And I also did check the set up , things are as what we have installed. I will contibue checking as a routine .


On the HOW it was made. The " Spacer " is tapered inside with threaded to fit the standard pin , then this spacer was tightly screwed over the standard one , plus with safety pin inserted to prevent the unscrewing movement.



You are right that when we deal with this type of work the main concern is the safety espect, and that is why I didn't use the naked ball joints even they look more exotic but prone to wear fast.



Cheers,



GM.




BTW the certainty in this small world is hard to find, see the below pic of a damaged spline shaft, which passed through the hardening process and yet...has gone south !



http://tinypic.com/2r3fr11.jpg





.

[George Manont]

.



Hi Mr.D.,



Thanks much.


I'll check the availability of the Saab's Rack...we don't have that many here. ( BTW , It has to be a RHD one )



Cheers,



GM.



.