Help me choose for "The 14 CAR" Rushforths and Baers

[NOT A TA]

As some of you know I won the Performance Therapy Online Photo Contest which was set up by Hotchkis Performance. I saw a post on this forum announcing it, submitted a pic and was lucky enough to be the winner! Some of the prizes are, a set of Rushforth wheels, a Baer brake system, and a set of Yokohama tires. Sweet deal eh!!! See this thread for more info http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=23519&highlight=WON

I need help determining what will work well and look cool on my 70 Firebird "The 14 Car". Most important to me is what will work well and be dead reliable on road race tracks. Performance is my main goal because the car has become more of a track car that can still be driven on the street rather than a street car that might go to a track.

For responses in this thread please keep to the companies mentioned for recommendations of brakes, wheels, and tires. They were nice enough to donate the prizes and discussing other companies offerings here is just a waste of time because their products are the ones that will be used.

The car is currently used for NASA HPDEs, Land Speed Racing, Drag Strips, and some street driving. I am planning on trying out some open road racing.

TIRES: Not a whole lot of decisions to be made here. I ran very similar Yokohamas in 17" sizes ( AO 32s) but they have been discontinued. Because of the limited sizes available in 17" from Yokohama now I think I should move up to 18's. The tires would probably be Advan AO 48's with 315 30 18 rears and 285 30 18 fronts or possibly a 295 30 18 / 265 35 18 combination. I run the MH compound. http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/advan_a048_specs.aspx

There is some possibility I might go with full race tires but they do not have the sizes and specs available on their website right now. More than likely I will go with these DOT R tires anyway because I do drive the car on the street.

BRAKES: I admit I'm clueless about good brake systems. I couldn't afford to upgrade the brakes because of all the circumstances involved. So I never really researched anything other than maximizing the performance of my stock style disc/drum setup. I've worked my way up through pads and have recently been running full race pads/shoes and crystalize a set of rotors each track weekend from the heat. This is my opportunity to get a system that can handle the rigors of regular track usage. I do not care about the "bling" factor, performance on track is the priority. More info on brake requirements here http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=21609&highlight=big+brakes+track

The car weighs about 3800 lbs but will be on a slow diet over the next few years. I have a 8.5 10 bolt rear with 2.41's for high speed stuff that has Moser axles with the tapered bearings and the axle tube ends have been modified with the Moser housing ends for those axles. I also use a different 8.2 10 bolt rear with 3.73's which has stock style ends for drag strips and some street driving. I will still need to be able to swap rears. I'll have to buy whatever parts I need to make the second rear useable I guess. The front end has stock spindles. It would be nice to retain a parking brake. What would be the best setup for this application?

WHEELS: Help me pick a style of Rushforth wheels and finishes that compliments my car. I don't know if anyone knows the weights but the lighter the better! As any of you that go to the track know, cleaning track wheels is a real pain, so the easier to clean the better. Brake dust covers the wheels and chunks of rubber "marbles" get stuck to them. It usually takes a couple hours to remove all the wheels and clean them after a track day. Here's the Rushforth link although I don't think the Night Trains and possibly another one have been posted yet. http://www.rushforthwheels.com/wheels

I know there's a lot of options presented here but I'd like some suggestions as I need to tell them what I'd like soon.

Thanks for reading this!

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/pt_winnerswhats_hot9image.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/Sebring%2009/Sebring10309030.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Safety%20upgrades/The14Carinterior512-1.jpg

[radrambler]

John

i would ask Jason about the mini-lite style he has coming out .Being used on the 68 Chris is building.(trans-am style z28).those would kick ass in 18s..on that car :thumbsup: other than that i like LIVEWIRES for your car...
CONGRATS ON THE CONTEST WIN!! must be nice


Tom

[srh3trinity]

I like the Night Train. The Minilite redo might fit well with your car too. I didn't know he was working on something in that realm. It seems it would fit with the race theme, especially since you drive your car hard.

[NOT A TA]

I agree a mini lite style in 18's might look good! Sort of a period correct feel but with a modern approach like the rest of my car is. I'll have to talk to Jay

[Payton King]

new mini lite style in an 18..more of a period correct look for your car Probably would want to do a step lip for strength. I would put the biggest, baddest set of baer's that they will give you. since you are running a stock front clip you should have plenty of room to run their 6 piston Monoblocks like what is on Rupps and DSE's car. Good thing about those is they run a C5/C6 style pad. Meaning there are plenty of compounds for your to try and they will be cheap compared to most.

[98ssnova]

new mini lite style in an 18..more of a period correct look for your car Probably would want to do a step lip for strength. I would put the biggest, baddest set of baer's that they will give you. since you are running a stock front clip you should have plenty of room to run their 6 piston Monoblocks like what is on Rupps and DSE's car. Good thing about those is they run a C5/C6 style pad. Meaning there are plenty of compounds for your to try and they will be cheap compared to most.

AGREED take the best that they will give you that is what i did when i won a set of wheels and tire back in the day. Gotta love good ole hotrod

[srh3trinity]

I can't imagine having "too much" in the way of braking. You can definitely push power levels past the point of what makes sense for a track car and your driving skills, but I can't see that happening with brakes. I am excited to watch your car go through this metamorphosis. It has always been a favorite of mine.

[NOT A TA]

I can't imagine having "too much" in the way of braking. You can definitely push power levels past the point of what makes sense for a track car and your driving skills, but I can't see that happening with brakes. I am excited to watch your car go through this metamorphosis. It has always been a favorite of mine.

Thanks! I spoke with the folks at Baer and need to double check to be positive which Moser housing ends I used. (there's 3 styles) They said I'm limited on rear brakes because the car isn't mini tubbed. They suggested the sport system which comes with new spindles and single piston rears. According to them I'd probably still have to massage the rear wheelwells to get them in there. Anyone run into this?

[zbugger]

Limited on rear brakes because the car isn't minitubbed? Huh?well, they're keeping you with a simple system out back, which should I guess be ok for you. For the front I'd probably ask about the 6S calipers. I believe that's what Mary Pozzi is running on her car and as far as I know she's pretty happy with them. I think it's also an available as an upgrade to the Track system.

As for wheels, I'm a fan of the "Rated X" wheel. If you can do a gunmetal or other gray type of center, I'd recommend it. Unless of course you like the polished deal.

[70rs]

6S up front, and the biggest ones you can fit in the rear. (not sure what they mean with mini tubs and brakes having anything to do with each other??)

Night Trains all around with a dark center. The mini lites would also look good with a dark center!:thumbsup:

[Chicken Louie]

If your running the 18" wheels. The hidden valve stem (back of the wheel) and going to make the 14" rotor and baer 6 piston proplus calipers very tight and maybe not work? With that combo I am considering to get a flush mount valve stem or 90 degree valve stem to make it work or even 13" rotors should work? I am spinning the template as we speak.

[DFRESH]

Whatever you put on that car will look awesome---very cool ride--

Doug

[JKnight]

Sounds like there's some communication breakdown with the guys at Baer. You should be able to fit whatever size brakes your wheel diameter will allow. Not sure how mini-tubbing comes into play at all.

The point about the valve stems is valid. I'm running the Baer GT (C6 PBR) system and it works quite well, but the valve stems were an issue with my cheapo 18" coys wheels. I had to run flush valve stems up front and even though they work, they're not a great solution. I wonder if Rushforth can alter where the valve stem hole goes to fit your needs.

[Chicken Louie]

I can not speak for anyone from baer, but I think the reference to tubbing was in reference to tire width, The tire sizes inquired about were 295 and up which require a 10" rim and the 315's an 11" or 12" rim. It is my guess that was what the reference to tubbing.

As for the valve stem position, I am sure they cam move it before you order your wheels and they may have to put it on the outside, and if your not worried about looking at the valve stem that's ok, but it sucks if you already have them and your tires are mounted.

[zbugger]

I can not speak for anyone from baer, but I think the reference to tubbing was in reference to tire width, The tire sizes inquired about were 295 and up which require a 10" rim and the 315's an 11" or 12" rim. It is my guess that was what the reference to tubbing...

Ummm..

Thanks! I spoke with the folks at Baer... They said I'm limited on rear brakes because the car isn't mini tubbed...


That said, the 295 in the rear should fit fine on his car. 315's are a little tight, but being a Firebird it's not as tight as in a Camaro. Different fender lip.

[NOT A TA]

I've been running Yokohama AO32's in a 315 35 17 on 11" rims on the rear for years. So I'm good on tire width. It was my understanding that I'd have to provide clearance on the inner fender for the caliper.

The valve stem consideration is a very good point. I'm kinda old school so I hadn't even considered that the stem might not be on the front. I would probably want it there for the ease of changing pressures at the track no? As track conditions and tire temps change the pressure needs to be checked and adjusted throughout the day. I've never had a helper at the track but ideally you pull in the hot pits occasionally and have someone check the tire temps and pressure mid session and keep track of performance at different settings.

315 pic below: Yes, thats a tow hook and yes I smoothed the bumper but it's not tucked. It's not registered in CT anymore and no I didn't get a NOT A TA plate in FL. I just got a normal plate. They didn't say a word at motor vehicle about the cage/seats/stickers or anything and I still had track rubber all over the car! I got it registered on Monday after a track weekend, went home and put the plate on and went for a couple hundred mile cruise around SO FL! Ya gotta see the looks I get in traffic with the numbers on the car and the seats etc. Might have to point the Go Pro out the passenger window some day.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Safety%20upgrades/The14Carinterior476.jpg

[OLDFLM]

Wanna get rid of that smoothed chrome bumper my friend? :unibrow:

[NOT A TA]

Ty, Your car would look sweet with a smoothed bumper! Maybe you should consider it?

[JayR]

Good talking to you yesterday, John. The right guy definitely won the contest!

Baer doesn't make a 6 piston kit for GM rearends so that might be where the mini-tub comment came about?

As for valvestems, yes they can interfere with 14" rotors on an 18 depending on your backspace which is why we have clients get a brake template and give them the final say as to where they want it located and some clients even have us omit it on the order so they can locate them exactly where they want it. Lots of options, you just have to ask!

[NOT A TA]

Good talking to you yesterday, John. The right guy definitely won the contest!

Thanks Jay! Nice chatting with you also. And thanks for sponsoring the contest! Your wheels will be the most valuable part of my car!

Baer doesn't make a 6 piston kit for GM rearends so that might be where the mini-tub comment came about?

The rear axle I've been running for high speed events is a 2.41 10 bolt I built with Moser Ford style ends and Moser tapered bearing axles so I need to figure out the correct brackets with Baer. the tapered bearing axles were recommended due to a different flange area which provides more support for the wheel flanges to allow higher lateral loads.

As for valvestems, yes they can interfere with 14" rotors on an 18 depending on your backspace which is why we have clients get a brake template and give them the final say as to where they want it located and some clients even have us omit it on the order so they can locate them exactly where they want it. Lots of options, you just have to ask!

WOW! Ask for what you'd like? Options? What a unique concept! LOL I'm used to "take it or leave it, this is the way we make it" for the products I've used in the past. Other than custom backspacing on my old wheels everything else on my whole car car is "the way we make it".

I have to do some learning about valvestems also. The Land Speed Racing speed classes I will be moving up to require certain types of valve stems. My old wheels just have ordinary rubber valve stems. Did you guys know there's valvestems that will automaticly adjust air pressure by letting air out of your tires as they heat up on track ? What will they think of next Martha? http://www.longacreracing.com/catalog/item.asp?id=580&catid=9

Another item on the "gotta learn me" list I thought of while writing this is wheel studs. The speed classes I plan on moving up to require 1/2" studs with open ended lugs for tech. Can a wheel be used for both 7/16" and 1/2" or must they be made for one or they other? Grades and length of studs? Lug nuts? I've got some more learning to do about wheel studs.

[syborg tt]

Hi John,

A couple pointers i can give you on Brake dust and rubber on he back of your wheels.

SO far ever wheel i've put on a car has had the back of the wheel powdercoated or painted black ( except the little mini-truck )

First of it sure does make cleaning brake dust a breeze, not sure about your rubber problem.

But it will help.

Valve stem - stick them on the outside - stay old school

Brakes - here is my suggestion.
Bear used to make a very simple 12" front & rear set up with PBR Calipers. Why would i suggest these. Reason why is simple you can get parts at your local autoparts store. Since you frquently use or should i say Abuse your car and sure would suck to have to wait to call Bear for special parts .

Keep it simple and don't get caught up in the bigger is better.

What you have on the car has been working so any upgrade is going to be a huge improvement.

Heck I had a 12" front & rear Bear kit on one of my Syclone projects and it was a blast to drive. When the pads went bad I went over to D&M corvette and just picked up new pads. When i Broke a cailper bolt - back to D&M I went.

Sure was nice knowing i could get parts with ease.

As for wheels - Concept 1 with Polished hoops, black centers & backside

[zbugger]

...
Bear used to make a very simple 12" front & rear set up with PBR Calipers. Why would i suggest these. Reason why is simple you can get parts at your local autoparts store. Since you frquently use or should i say Abuse your car and sure would suck to have to wait to call Bear for special parts ....

For what he does, I'm not sure those will hold up all that well. The reason I suggested the 6S calipers is because the are also an upgrade to the Track Plus kit with a 13" rotor. They supposedly also use C5/C6 Corvette pads, so replacements are readily available. That last part is only what I remember from the article in Camaro Performers though, so ask Steve to really make sure on that. In the article Mary upgraded from the Track setup in front to the 6S and really liked the improvement.

[syborg tt]

Okay you've peaked my interest. -I am going to look on there site and see what i can find.


http://www.baer.com/gallery/index.php?g2_itemId=1008



For what he does, I'm not sure those will hold up all that well. The reason I suggested the 6S calipers is because the are also an upgrade to the Track Plus kit with a 13" rotor. They supposedly also use C5/C6 Corvette pads, so replacements are readily available. That last part is only what I remember from the article in Camaro Performers though, so ask Steve to really make sure on that. In the article Mary upgraded from the Track setup in front to the 6S and really liked the improvement.

[LowchevyII]

man the night train wheels would look sick on the car. i would go with those for sure

[NOT A TA]

Marty: I hadn't thought about making the backside of the wheels black. I removed washed and buffed out the polished TT IIs after every track day and that gets to be a pain. When I first started going to tracks I wondered why the "regulars" wheels were all filthy with brake dust and a lot of them ran black wheels. Now I know!

I guess I'm going to have to talk to Baer some more about the rear brakes.

[tazzz2_ca]

Hi John, I just got these wheels on my car in LA from Jason,,,, thought you mite like seeing them as a option....
http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af93/projectwarpath/White%2073%20TA/73tadraft2.jpg

[NOT A TA]

Thanks for posting the pic Albert. Nice looking car! What size are the wheels?

[JayR]

Thanks for posting the pic Albert. Nice looking car! What size are the wheels?

They're 18x8 and 18x10" Livewires with Smoked Titanium centers.

Thanks for posting that pic, Albert but just that one is plain teasing! I'm going to need some good ones for the website!

[tazzz2_ca]

They're 18x8 and 18x10" Livewires with Smoked Titanium centers.

Thanks for posting that pic, Albert but just that one is plain teasing! I'm going to need some good ones for the website!

No Problem Jay, give me till the spring and I make it worth your while buddy with an updated version of that car alla Mary & Dave Pozzi waving their majic wand over my pocket book hopefully LOL...