Recommendations needed for 2nd gen f-body

[Doug1]

I am looking to build a serious g machine that will be worth of magazine coverage. It will be different than most in that it will be a Pontiac powered Trans Am. I already have the engine being built and polished. That alone is $20K. I wanted to keep a somewhat original look by retaining the shaker which is why I had the aftermarket block based Pontiac motor built. It has already been dyno'd at 700+HP and 750 ft. lbs. of torque on pump gas. I am not going to go with forced induction at this point since I already have a good bit of horsepower and want to keep the shaker functional. The engine can be coverted easily with some dished pistons and a different cam if I decide to loose the shaker dow the road.

So I have spoken with DSE to look at buying a complete assembled front subframe and rear in with their ford 9 inch rear and quadra links setup. Vintage Air system with all braided lines and polished compressor. Another $20K+ for that. I understand that it is one of the best out there if not the best out there. I want it to look great as well as perform. I want to be able to use a 10 inch tire up front and 12 inch wide out back and the DSE setup will allow that. (I'm also installing their mini-tubs)

The car is a T-Top car so I need a nice roll bar setup that will still look nice with the tops out and to go with the interior which will be custom. I am considering the Tiger Cage from RideTech but it is not certified by any of the sanctioning bodies so that is a big concern.

I am ready to pull the trigger on the suspension parts now. I need to source a complete stainless steel oval exhausts because I want to keep this thing low.

Any recommendations on improving this project will be appreciated.

[radrambler]

Doug

you have a PM

Tom

[tazzz2_ca]

Sounds like a killer ride..... I'd be happy to talk TA's with you as I'm also building a TA for this season (did the Green 70 Formula in the Optima and The Dirty Fun Run Across to America to Sema this year)....
You'll most likely want to speak to "Spin Tech" in California for the Oval exhaust at the 3.5" level or "Ram Air Restorations" (Paul) for the 2.5" low Oval exhaust,,,, If Carbon Fiber Panels sound interesting
just let us know as we'd be happy to help...

As a side note, if you have 700hp for real you may really want to speak to a local chassis guy as that much power with T-tops will twist the car most likely..... Especially if you plan to run a DSE sub-frame
and a complimentary rear end..... With a set of pretty nice tires to transfer all that good suspension stuff it's almost guaranteed to twist if not tied together properly and caged....

Albert

[NOT A TA]

Welcome Doug! Sounds like a nice project. What year is the car? Are you building the car yourself or is a shop building it? Who built the engine? As Albert mentioned, a T top car with that much power and sticky tires is probably going to need some stiffening to avoid problems if you expect to push the car anywhere near its limits on tracks etc.

[6spdcamaro]

I haven't seen it on their website but detroit speed has a "test car kit" in their catalog. It has everything on their 70 camaro for 12k and change :faint: . THe subframe,Q-link, subframe connectors, remote canister shocks all around, mini-tubs, and some other stuff i think. You would save some money buying them as a kit and it seems like you were planning on getting most of that any way.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Before you pull the trigger on anything call me. We have plenty of big cube Pontiac experiance and can save you real money on all your parts you mentioned and everything else you will need..

Check out our website

[TreySmith]

Make sure it's black with 17 inch snow flakes. :thumbsup:

[Doug1]

Sounds like a killer ride..... I'd be happy to talk TA's with you as I'm also building a TA for this season (did the Green 70 Formula in the Optima and The Dirty Fun Run Across to America to Sema this year)....
You'll most likely want to speak to "Spin Tech" in California for the Oval exhaust at the 3.5" level or "Ram Air Restorations" (Paul) for the 2.5" low Oval exhaust,,,, If Carbon Fiber Panels sound interesting
just let us know as we'd be happy to help...

As a side note, if you have 700hp for real you may really want to speak to a local chassis guy as that much power with T-tops will twist the car most likely..... Especially if you plan to run a DSE sub-frame
and a complimentary rear end..... With a set of pretty nice tires to transfer all that good suspension stuff it's almost guaranteed to twist if not tied together properly and caged....

Albert

Thanks, I'll definitely be in contact. This is a build I am attempting but can always change my mind if the right offer is out there. I have built several TAs. 3 were restorations and I got tired of that. Last one had all mechanicals upgraded to support a mid 500hp motor I built. This one is to be the topper of all of those! I normally build my own motors but Dave at SD Performance, where I buy most of my Pontiac motor parts, offered me a very good deal on a motor he had built and it could support going forced induction down the road if I decide to do so.

Here is the motor I bought....
http://www.sdperformance.com/viewProduct.php?productID=1797
It will be here in February. I had Dave at SD Performance take the heads and intake off to have them polished and powdercoated in clear. It dyno'd at 716hp on pump gas. It is the real deal.
They wrote an article about the results of the testing on the motor.. That is here...
http://www.sdperformance.com/newsStory.php?newsID=53

The rear is is also from Detroit speed. Basically I will most likely be buying their entire front and rear setup for the car along with their subframe connectors. Other than a partial cage, I don't think there is much else to do to stiffen the chassis without going all out race car chassis. I want to keep the T-Tops functional since it is a street car.

Make sure it's black with 17 inch snow flakes. :thumbsup:

Been there done that! This one will be Nocturne Blue like my other favorite TA and will have all the graphics airbrushed before the clear coat. Here is my current "favorite". I am going to sell the other TA's I have and just keep these two.
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/dcamburn/1979%20Trans%20Am%20-%20Blue/DSC01024.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/dcamburn/1979%20Trans%20Am%20-%20Blue/Current%20motor%20-%20HO%20455%20with%20e-heads/DSC02094.jpg

Before you pull the trigger on anything call me. We have plenty of big cube Pontiac experiance and can save you real money on all your parts you mentioned and everything else you will need..

Check out our website

PM sent.

I haven't seen it on their website but detroit speed has a "test car kit" in their catalog. It has everything on their 70 camaro for 12k and change :faint: . THe subframe,Q-link, subframe connectors, remote canister shocks all around, mini-tubs, and some other stuff i think. You would save some money buying them as a kit and it seems like you were planning on getting most of that any way.

I'd love to find that! Just over $21K at list if I include AC and braided lines. That is not with the remote canister shocks but the mid level shock they offer. My brother in law has an account with them and gets a small discount but that is still a bunch of money.

[Doug1]

Before you pull the trigger on anything call me. We have plenty of big cube Pontiac experiance and can save you real money on all your parts you mentioned and everything else you will need..

Check out our website

Couldn't get a PM through so check your email.

Doug

[Doug1]

Still looking for some cool ideas for this 2nd gen build. All ideas are welcome. I want it to have the serious WOW factor.


Think I am going to lose the rear seat like the Dale Jr. camrao at DSE. You can see it in the project links...
http://www.detroitspeed.com/projectpages/dalejr/dalejr_main.htm

[NOT A TA]

The rear seat area in Dales car looks good but you don't necessarily "have" to loose the seat. I decided I wanted to keep it in my car and just designed everything to make it work. Of course no one can use it, (no one could even get back there) but it's a "look" I wanted for my car and it doesn't weigh much. The rear seat bottoms don't even have frames, they're just foam covered with the upholstery and I them out before track days.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Safety%20upgrades/The14Carinterior484.jpg

[WSSix]

Dang Doug! You're beating me to my dream car, lol. I really should post mine the projects section. I have a 79 TA that's nocturne blue as well and it also has ttops. Mine has the tan interior though. I want to build it one day to sit very low and haul ass. I can't add much to your ideas because I think they are great and headed in the right direction. Only thing I can add is my agreement to get the car to a chassis guy who can build the frame/braces correctly so that the car doesn't twist. You may need to use swing out door bars to get this right. Keep us posted. I want to see this come together as mine will be a long way away from its completed design.

[syborg tt]

Welcome to the BB. I look forward to seeing your project.

Couple Questions.

1. Are you building the car or is a shop building it.

2. What is your budget ?

I have plenty idea's that i can pass your way and plenty of things that I've learned on my last project that may help you out. As you said it' all about impact and what is it going to take for people to walk over to your car and take a look.

Color being the biggest draw. Let's face it "Red" will get your attention. Soft colors are nice but the project needs to step up so there is some other draw.

Here is something i posted in another thread years ago

okay this is if i'm looking at a modified car not a Friday night cruise car. Which I think is smarter in the end then a modified car that ends up in your garage as a piece of art because your afraid to drive it.

1. Stance ( possibly a rendering )
a. Gives you a visual tool to see the end results

2. Wheels & Tires
a. does the style fit with the body design
b. Size does matter

3. Suspension - Front
a. what type ( air ride, leaf or coil over type )
b. my prefernce is air suspension they are so much more enjoyable to drive on long road trips ( re: power tour )

4. Suspension - Rear
a. what type ( air ride, leaf or coil over type )
b. once again my prefernce is air suspension they are so much more enjoyable to drive on long road trips ( re: power tour )

5. Chassis (stock, modified or custom )
a. i really love custom chassis
b. perfect example are the AWD Chassis the Troy is buildin
c. frame connectors are they well executed

6. Body modifications
a. stuff so simple you didn't even know they did it.
b. panel modifications that help the overall feel of the car

7. Engine compartment
a. how well was it thought out (packaging)
b. is the plumbing hidden or exposed
c. inner fender / firewall design

8. Exhaust
a. does it hang below the rockers ( is it visible )
b. they should be heard not seen


9. Fuel System
a. is it upgraded to something safe
b. fuel line are they in dangerous locations
c. will it meet the demand of a street car

10. Tranny - who built it and what did they do.

11. Cooling
a. what type of radiator
b. take a look at the snazzy Aluminum Core Support with integrated radiator

12. Engine management
a. who's sytem and what do you think of it (efi )
b. is it hidden or in plain site.

13. Electrical
a. is it stock or aftermarket ( AAW make a very nice setup )
b. Headlight, taillight, driving lights ... stick with one manufacture

14. Paint & Bodywork
a. is the car straight
b. panel gaps
c. did the body shop fix the penels or shim the heck out the car
d. rain gutter - were they stripped of old paint before they were painted
e. really i could go on here but i'll stop now

15. Interior
a. what's the theme (stock, custom or all out crazy)
b. how well was it executed
c. quality of the work that was done

16. Stereo
a. is a nice stereo or a boom boom system
b. how well was it executed
c. they should be heard not seen


Okay side note.

Pick manufactures that you like.
Here is an example

Your buying the DSE Stuff.
You should also buy there Roll Cage Set Up

Everything is designed to work together. What makes a project fail is when people try to coble things together from other manufactures to save a few bucks.

Pick a Manucatures Theme
Ex: Billet Specialtes
Wheels
Serpentine Set Up
Dash Vent
Door Locks

Ex: Flaming Rivers
Steeriing Column
Firewall Adapter Plate
Universal Joints
D-Shaft
Steering Box ( not needed in your case if you buy the DSE Chassis )


Guages / Dash Panel
Autometer
Anvil Dash Pod in Carbon Fiber
Factory Center Consule Trim Plate ( Send it to HydroIllusions to get the CF Treatment )
Marquez Design Door Panels
a. Send it to HydroIllusions to get the CF Treatment

Here is another Example of something little that is trick but you better empty your pocket book because it gets Expensive
Chassis Hardware
12 Point ARP Bolts, Washers and 12 Point Nuts
These look trick as hell and cost an arm and a leg to do.

Have you build plan in place before you start the project so you know where your going. The shot gun approach is sure to fail and or cost you a lot of money in the end from "Do - Overs"

And the most important thing I can tell you is:

"Project Creep"
Ex. If I do this then I should do this

I could go on and On

[syborg tt]

BTW - John still one of my favorite Pontiac to date.

The rear seat area in Dales car looks good but you don't necessarily "have" to loose the seat. I decided I wanted to keep it in my car and just designed everything to make it work. Of course no one can use it, (no one could even get back there) but it's a "look" I wanted for my car and it doesn't weigh much. The rear seat bottoms don't even have frames, they're just foam covered with the upholstery and I them out before track days.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/The%2014%20Car%20Safety%20upgrades/The14Carinterior484.jpg

[Doug1]

Great tips, I will admit. Some I have covered but others made be think about nailing the project down as tightly as possible before hand. I thought mine was pretty well thought out but now I realize it is not as much as it needs to be. Nothing major, just more details.

Keep the ideas coming guys! I have been planning on doing the majority of the work myself but can't do the custom metal work that I now want. So I will be farming that part out and maybe some more depending on the total costs.

[6spdcamaro]

Okay im looking at the catalog. DSE 1970 Test car kit, comes with powdercoated subframe, quadraLink, deep tubs, subframe connectors, body mounts with bolts, remote canister monotube double adjustable shocks front and rear, shock mounts. This kit goes for 12,800. I don't know what the list price on all of that stuff is but i would assume that you would save some money

[Doug1]

Okay im looking at the catalog. DSE 1970 Test car kit, comes with powdercoated subframe, quadraLink, deep tubs, subframe connectors, body mounts with bolts, remote canister monotube double adjustable shocks front and rear, shock mounts. This kit goes for 12,800. I don't know what the list price on all of that stuff is but i would assume that you would save some money

I will call first thing Monday and double check. The only thing I can think of is the 6 piston Willwood brake system and Vintage Air system would make up a good bit of the difference between the 12,800 and 21K.

[6spdcamaro]

worth a shot, i can't imagine brakes and the ac unit costing $8000, plus the 21k was with mid-grade adjustable shocks, i think thats a savings of 1200 over the remote canister shocks.

[jeff s]

This TA will be for sale. As soon as the Divorce Court Judge rules on it.
We also have a bolt in full frame chassis available for 2nd gens and 15 other cars. Which this car already has in it.
It's also been minitubbed and painted.
Call if interested 815-206-2230 as I haven't had much time for boards lately.

[Doug1]

This TA will be for sale. As soon as the Divorce Court Judge rules on it.


Never a happy ending there...

[Tuske427]

If it helps I'd recommend picking a theme for your car based on your intentions of it. Do you plan to only show it (magazine car), or do you plan to drive it? Race it? Build it to resell it? advertise a business, etc..

I would pick a theme and work on a plan of attack. Maybe make a list of goals you have for the car and make some drawings (or hire someone/ trade for services) so you can see what you will end up with. With computer technology it's really easy to photoshop a car, color, modification, graphic, etc.

I'd also consider doing something that nobody has done before. If you just buy everything from a catalog- it'll be just that- a catalog car. It'll only be as good as what they sell to everyone. Great for their advertising but not really original.

Many times, the difference is in the details. Attention to fine detail will make your car stand out from the crowd. It was previously mentioned about the ARP bolts. But, if you use them for example, make sure you use them everywhere. Be consistent throughout the car. If you use a phillips head screw and tighten it so the shape is level- make all the remaining phillips head screws in the same orientation. Though tedious, the little things like that go a long way when you are finished.

You mentioned you have t-tops and you want them to work. How about a custom rollcage that follows the shape of your t-tops but is grafted into the inner body structure. Then make a custom headliner to hide it. I've seen some RUF Porsches with a rollcage integrated in, and with the interior in place you'd never know it had one. I plan on doing something like this with my car. No, it won't be NHRA legal, but I'm not building a purpose built drag car.

I hope this helps.

-Brendon