2011 Mustang GT - The 5.0 Returns!!!

[JohnnyGMachine]

Leave it up to one of the 5.0 Mustang guys here (me) to post this. Ford finally put a great engine/trans package together for the new Mustang and it should be VERY competitive to the new Camaro SS. 5.0 V8, all aluminum, 4 cams, 6 speed shifting - whats not to love? For Mustang guys, this is what we've been waiting for for awhile!:thumbsup:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmfp_1004_2011_ford_mustang_5_liter_engine/index.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlR8hbpkHkw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwvLEx10KgE&feature=related

[GregWeld]

Johnny -- Good post!

Only one problem with it.... LOL.... it still LOOKS like a Mustang. IMHO (owning an '06 Mustang) is that when they changed body style - they killed it. No way would I buy one now... I'd be CAMARO all the way... :D

[Moose]

I disagree, I love the new mustang. the 2010 are my favorite since the fox body coupe. The interior on 10's are much better then 06's IMO

[GregWeld]

I agree with the interior statement. I rented a convertible last month when in Hawaii and liked it MUCH more than the '06... but I HATE the new design... and the sales of the Mustang show I'm not alone. :thumbsup:

[Moose]

is it the slope greg? not sure how to describe the front and rear. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Hard to describe why you do or don't like something... but I would say it this way:

To me - the '06 (as an example) looks exactly like the "old" Mustang but drawn with a fresh pen.... the new Mustang looks like they just HAD to change something but didn't know why.. When I look at it - it doesn't invoke that classic Mustang "bad to the bone" look.

[Neil B]

Cool. Sounds like a nice little motor. I'm interested to learn more about the variable cam timing with the adjustable overlap. Hopefully we'll be able to make it sound like a pro-stocker at idle via a simple tuning change.:)

[Teetoe_Jones]

A modded LSX engine will still beat the living crap out of that 5.0 engine everyday of the week. I'm glad they are at least trying to out do GM.

Tyler

[ProdigyCustoms]

I also rented a 2010 convertible in Vegas. And I loved the interior. The neon on the floor, sill plates and cup holder was very well done and subtle. The dash was cool and in general I thought the materials were better then GM materials. It was only a 6cyl, but I enjoyed the little car and found myself wondering what one would be like with 600 horse! This from a dyed in wool GM guy.

[JohnnyGMachine]

As far as the looks go - being an automotive stylist I'm always going to find things I don't like, things I do like and occassionally a "Why the hell did they do THAT!"

My take on the GT styling...
The upper 50% of both the front and rear fascias are OK, but from the center bumper support and down - basically the lower bottom of the front fascia looks weak. Why didn't Ford just style in a CLEAN front lower chin spoiler on the fascias from 2005 until now?!! The rear fascia of the 2010 looks like it has a black diaper on the bottom of it that needs to be changed. I know what the designer was doing and thinking but when translated from cool exotic looking concept sketches to production it lost something somwhere and basically the new Mustang rear bumper "GOT BACK!" Bottom half of rear fascia at the least needs to be cleaner and not so heavy.

New GT500 styling...
The 2007 GT500s - I think is one of the cleanest most aggressive if not the most aggressive front end styling for a Mustang EVER! The front fascia of the new 2010 GT500 - looks to Dodge Ram-like...don't like the upper fascia on the GT500 and how the headlight shapes blend into the top of the upper grill.
The rear wing on the new GT500 with the Gurney flap is killer and helps balance out the rear fat looking bumper.

What I do like about the 2010+ Mustangs...
I do like the improved quality of the interior materials. I also like the kick up in the upper rear quarter panels - more retro and muscular character to the rear.

As far as comparing the powerplants between the Mustang and Camaro-that's fine I agree with the capabilities of the LS motor...BUT at the end of the day Mustang is still king of the Pony car heap with the GT500 and I'd be willing to lay my chips on the table that the Mustang GT will edge the Camaro in the quarter mile. Remember the Mustang weighs a couple hundred pounds lighter than the Camaro and it's only down about 14 ponies. Then you add the track pack from Ford onto that. The Camaro MSRP is also about $2750 more than the Mustang GT!!!

As far as Camaro styling goes, it has it's positives and negatives. First thing that needs to go is the silly SS mail slot in the front fascia - not even functional. I'm probably one of the few that actually likes the rear styling. And what the heck is with the steel wheels offered on the Camaro??? C'mon GM this is the 21st century!

[GregWeld]

Okay - you tossed down the sharp stick...

Here's what I see just wrong with the Mustang argument.... In order do get something that will "compete" -- you're in the GT500 or GT500KR --- not the GT model... and those cars are TWICE the cost of a Camaro.... and 50% more than a stock base Corvette that will kick their ass.... :thumbsup:

In the end - it DOES come down to $$ and what you like to look at...

[Moose]

Well I'm going to wait until the camaro comes with the z28 model and see what offered. Either way I cant buy until 2011.. Damn pre school is a fortune

[GregWeld]

Well I'm going to wait until the camaro comes with the z28 model and see what offered. Either way I cant buy until 2011.. Damn pre school is a fortune

Preschool! Hells bells - that ain't nuttin buddy! Wait till you have TWO in college and one is out of state...

Besides -- I'd wait for the Camaro CONVERTIBLE... and see how that looks...

[Moose]

Preschool! Hells bells - that ain't nuttin buddy! Wait till you have TWO in college and one is out of state...

Besides -- I'd wait for the Camaro CONVERTIBLE... and see how that looks...

lol.. I've putting away for college for them for 10 years. I started way before they were born.

But thanks for kicking me when I was already down LOL:wow: :thumbsup:

[JohnnyGMachine]

Okay - you tossed down the sharp stick...

Here's what I see just wrong with the Mustang argument.... In order do get something that will "compete" -- you're in the GT500 or GT500KR --- not the GT model... and those cars are TWICE the cost of a Camaro.... and 50% more than a stock base Corvette that will kick their ass.... :thumbsup:

In the end - it DOES come down to $$ and what you like to look at...

I knew I'd get you to bite on that! I agree the Shelby is expensive and for the same money I could get a really sweet used C6 Z06. I will admit, being a car guy first and a Mustang guy second, the C6 Z06 is BAD-A...most definately the baddest all around American Muscle you can by for the money hands down. My opinion on all the GT500 versions...you're just paying for the name. The engine is too big and heavy, and geez how hard would it be to get a GT to hang with a GT500 in every aspect for another $7-$10k??? Easy! Supercharger, a couple bolt ons and you're there for much less. But you don't have "Shelby" on it??!!!
Trust me when I say this, Ford guys have been screaming for Ford to stop screwing around and make a truly competitive Mustang when comparing performance numbers to the Camaro. Quit letting the bean counters make it more well-rounded than more performance for the $$$. Finally they have.
As far as the LS engine being a "better" engine - for this topic I will just be comparing stock vs. stock from the factory. money vs. mods vs. motors can be a whole other topic. Besides most consumers today are happy with stock or a couple bolt-ons such as exhaust and CAI. Wheels, tires, and a hood to round it off - maybe some tape stripes done. Then there are the few that just bolt on a supercharger, tune and done. There's the even smaller group of guys that can even afford, let alone work on themselves, pulling out the stock stuff building a whole new engine, high end power adders, etc. At that point it - how fast do you wanna go? How much money and time do you have...more so of the first one. At that point it really just comes down to preference - what do you like? Chevy? Ford? Mopar? They can all go just as fast as the other...just a $$$ factor.
Personally for me...if I wanted to blow $32k on a Bad-A Ford? I'd plop down around $20-$22k for a super clean low mileage 03-04 cobra, do a KB blower swap, a few bolt ons and put a smack down on a GT500 and be able to have a solid 10-second daily driver with leather, CD player, and A/C. all for the cost of a high 12 low 13 second GT. All preference I guess.

[GregWeld]

All good points....

It always does come down to the almighty dollar... and then personal preference.

A buddy totalled his M5 the other day... so is "shopping" for new cars. I told him that I was thinking about ordering a new E63 for Euro delivery... and his response was "nah... I'm just not a Mercedes kinda guy".... OKAY! I get it... won't even argue it... Nothing wrong with that statement. Some guys like red wine - some like beer... I don't care as long as they're happy!
:thumbsup:

[JohnnyGMachine]

I like the beer and wine line, if you don't mind I'd like to use that!

[Ricochet]

The article is post dated April 1, 2010! Maybe it a April's Fool's joke? :question: :lol:

[Josh69]

I'm not really a ford guy, but I've owned a few Mustangs so I'll be the first to step in here and say, if you think the new SS is a match for the 2011 Mustang, you're delusional. The numbers don't lie, this car will bury the new Camaro in sales, and in performance on most tracks, straight line or corners. I'm talking stock for stock. 412hp/390ft lbs, 7K rpm's, DOHC, 3600lbs. That's a tall order, no matter how we slice it for the new Camaro. We all know how a properly prepped live axle can work and that is about the last remaining advantage...if it was one.

FYI, the Mustang outsold the Camaro in 2009and that's with the outgoing 4.6L under the hood. That's not encouraging news for the new Camaro in it's much hyped return. 66K units to 62K units.

I'm a first gen guy through and through, having owned several since high school, in fact, I've owned 6. I'm dissapointed in the 2010 Camaro's interior design, and weight. Two things that will prevent me from buying one.

I'm of the (apparently dissenting) opinion that the 2010 Stang is better looking than the 2005's, mostly for the creases in the bodywork, some real flair compared to the previous version. The nose and tail leave a little to be desired, but the hips and the lines make up for it. :lateral:

[GregWeld]

Josh --

The reason I posted that Camaro outsold the Mustang -- is because those numbers where just published for the November sales I think - and the sales ratio was HUGE Camaro by about 2 to 1...

Remember -- the Camaro was S L O W to fill the pipeline... can't have sales if you don't have cars.

I totally agree with you on the Camaro interior.... I was looking at it and thinking - without a TOTAL RE-DO you couldn't get a decent NAV screen in there - let alone put in an aftermarket head unit... and I absolutely HATE the gauges (not the console ones - they got that right)... They just tried to hard to combine the 67/8 - with the 69 there.

A person on Lat G already got rid of their 2010 Camaro - because it was too hard to drive -- TERRIBLE rear vision and he said it was an accident waiting to happen.

[GregWeld]

Chevrolet managed to sell 9,320 examples of the Camaro last month, compared to 7,362 June sales for the 2010 Ford Mustang. The last time the Camaro outsold the Mustang in a single month was October 1993, according to Automotive News. The Camaro was all-new for 1993 while the Mustang was awaiting its 1994 redesign.
More of the same could be in store for July and beyond as Chevrolet is struggling to keep up with Camaro demand. Chevrolet initially received 14,000 pre-orders for the Camaro and has since been bombarded with another 25,000 dealer orders. Camaro demand is so high right now that there is only about a 6-9 day supply on the market with most dealers getting at least $500 over sticker.

[Josh69]

I agree, you can't sell cars without cars to sell. I am squarely on the fence here and it sucks, honestly. I want a new Camaro for the sake of it being a new Camaro. But I don't think I can live with the visibility, the interior, or the weight. I've always had 'neat' Mustangs if the mood struck me, but was never emotionally attached. I fear I find myself desiring a new Mustang now which by all logic, should be improbable with the new Camaro available.

Well, lucky for me, I got a raise this year, so the '69 isn't for sale anymore...call me lucky, as I don't have to make that decision anytime soon. :cheers:

[GregWeld]

Josh ---

Had to poke around a bit to find this -----

Sales numbers are in for the month of December and the Chevrolet Camaro has extended it's sales dominance over the Ford Mustang for the seventh straight month along with increasing sales by double digit percentage points from the previous month. Camaro sales seem to be holding strong although they will be tested in the coming months as Ford rolls out their new V-6 and V-8 engine lineup for the 2011 model year. Check below for all the sales figures even the competition.
Sales of the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro for December of 2009 were 7,548 compared to 6,687 from the previous month showing a 13% increase in month-to-month sales. Year to date Camaro sales are 61,648.

[JohnnyGMachine]

BTW, don't forget - when the Mustang was all new for 2005 - you couldn't get one, they were on back order, etc. etc. It's the same thing for the new Camaro.

In all fairness, I'll speculate why I think the Camaro is outselling the Mustang a bit...

1 - The Camaro is a 100% all new car (compared to the last year produced in 2002)
2 - The Mustang is only a refresh, if you put a 2005 and a 2010 next to each other and squint they look the same. Performance is also the same.
3 - Mustang down on power compared to the Camaro - although I still think all around the Mustang is a better, more rounded Pony car.

When the new 412hp 390 lb. ft torque 5.0 6-speed Mustang GT hits, Mustang sales will pick up a lot of steam, and the Mustang 50th Anny. is just around the corner. It's still a lightweight compared to the competition, and the interior and quality seem to shine with the Mustang. There's rumors of a Boss 302 variation for the street and it will be interesting to see if an all alloy block makes it's way into the GT500 to help it's weight out. I'm already hearing rumors that the Challenger will be done in about 2 more production years.
One of the contributing factors for the Mustang outselling the Camaro and Firebird combined 2 to 1 a few years ago was that 50% of overall Mustang sales were female buyers. The Camaro was too difficult to get in and out of, heavy doors, hard to see out of etc...sounds like some similar reviews on the new Camaro. One of the big negatives for Camaro back on the late 90s and early 2000 was the large heavy doors and, bad ergonomics, and hard to see out of? The new Camaro is Heavy, down on handling from the Mustang even with IRS and the V6 Camaro isn't looking too strong either.
2011 will be an interesting year for the Pony Car wars.

[JohnnyGMachine]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/05/ford-mustang-takes-the-2009-pony-car-sales-crown-from-the-chevro/

[Roger M]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/05/ford-mustang-takes-the-2009-pony-car-sales-crown-from-the-chevro/

The only issue I have with this, is that the Mustang was available for sale for a couple months that the Camaro wasn't. I am pretty sure the Camaro would have easily surpassed the Mustang if it were available the whole year.

Another thing to consider though... The novelty of the 'first year' thing. I would bet that the new Camaros appeal will wear off some in the coming years.