Camaro vs. Camaro - Which Generation Would You Build?

[HotRodKush]

Looks aside, given your choice of a second or third gen Camaro, which would you choose as the best platform to build a pro-touring car? Which generation is more capable, given the current selection of aftermarket suspension upgrades available for each?

I'm looking to build a nice well-rounded AutoX and road racing car that will also be street legal. I would rather use a second gen but I'm not sure how they compare to the third gens regarding the availability of aftermarket suspension components.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

2nd gen all day...

if you got heart, then a 3rd gen... no love for that one so it takes heart to do one.

[Stuart Adams]

First gen. DSE's camaros perform pretty equal. Better looks. Better resale. I really like 2nd gen's too.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i think the choices were either 2nd or 3rd gen.

[69496]

2nd gen for me. All you need is some good springs, shocks and swaybars and a 2nd gen is ready to compete

[GregWeld]

If you asked this a couple years ago - you'd have been told FIRST GEN but now there are several manufacturers doing killer SECOND GEN stuff.... Having never built a 2nd gen car - personally - I can't speak from experience - but I can tell you that right out of the box from the factory the 2nd gen stuff was far superior to the 1st. Now - with all the dev work and sub frames etc for 1st gen - that difference has probably been erased.

A 2nd gen donor should be less than the equivalent 69 first gen... and might have less rust issues. But given that you're in Westchester, NY (I lived in Scarsdale for a few years) RUST is an east coast issue no matter what...

If I was on a budget - I might try to find a 2nd gen donor... but If I wanted resale value and looks - then I'd ONLY build a 69....

So nobody is going to answer your question to your satisfaction... only you can do that. It's a tough call because the body style is so personal.

[camcojb]

Looks aside, given your choice of a second or third gen Camaro, which would you choose as the best platform to build a pro-touring car? Which generation is more capable, given the current selection of aftermarket suspension upgrades available for each?

I'm looking to build a nice well-rounded AutoX and road racing car that will also be street legal. I would rather use a second gen but I'm not sure how they compare to the third gens regarding the availability of aftermarket suspension components.
plenty of suspension and brake upgrades for both. And the third gen handles better stock. But if resale value and recouping as much as possible of your investment matters, then it's second gen hands down. They are absolutely worth quite a bit more with equivalent parts lists and mods. You may spend $25K upgrading both, but the second gen will be worth a lot more given equal quality and parts selection.

Jody

[camaro2nv]

I think the number of first gen builds answer this question perfect:thumbsup:

[70rs]

Second gen, :thumbsup: (early second gen, with STEEL BUMPERS)

[Roger M]

Second gen, :thumbsup: (early second gen, with STEEL BUMPERS)

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/chevrolet-camaro-1975-1.jpg

Yup.. I see what you mean Eric.

J/K:cheers:

[rwhite692]

Since the question was 2nd gen vs. 3rd gen, between those two:2nd gen all the way, with my personal preference being the 70-72 with RS nose.

[GregWeld]

I reserve the right to drop a grenade in the middle of any conversation - or thread... :rofl: :rofl:

I just couldn't make any argument for a 3rd gen so had to include the 1st gen as a reference point....

[70rs]

That is because there is no arguement for a third gen......:D


When they stuffed a 4cyl in a Camaro I was done with that entire generation with the exception of the IROC/Z28 there was not much offered by that series.

[tones2SS]

I would say 2nd gen over the 3rd all day long. They are making some killer stuff for the 2nd gen right now.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[HotRodKush]

Thanks guys! Looks like the consensus is the second gens, which was my preference - I just wanted to make sure that significant upgrades were available, which it looks like there are. I did some research today and there's actually alot of options for second gen suspensions that won't break the bank. I'd love to source a 70-73 split bumper, but the '80-81's are cheaper and don't look half bad either. The search begins :willy:

[70rs]

Thanks guys! Looks like the consensus is the second gens, which was my preference - I just wanted to make sure that significant upgrades were available, which it looks like there are. I did some research today and there's actually alot of options for second gen suspensions that won't break the bank. I'd love to source a 70-73 split bumper, but the '80-81's are cheaper and don't look half bad either. The search begins :willy:

I have a '70 RS splitbumper and have done a TON of research. If there is something you are looking for or different suspension options, drivetrain swap info or anything else(brake upgrades, steering....) please feel free to send me a PM. I will get you my email addy and overload you with info and sources. I also have a few parts (extra new side glass and more) if you end up needing some stuff. :cheers:

[lil427z]

the 70-73 rs is the only way to go.:thumbsup:

[HotRodKush]

I have a '70 RS splitbumper and have done a TON of research. If there is something you are looking for or different suspension options, drivetrain swap info or anything else(brake upgrades, steering....) please feel free to send me a PM. I will get you my email addy and overload you with info and sources. I also have a few parts (extra new side glass and more) if you end up needing some stuff. :cheers:

Thank you! That would be great, I'll keep you posted.

I've been driving a TBSS for the last year or so, which is a break from the norm because I've always had classic cars as daily drivers. I think it's time to sell it and go back to my roots - use the money to get a 50's - 70's "beater" to get to work, and use the rest to build pro-touring second gen for the weekends and the occasional track event.

[Scorpner]

Guess I'm late to the party. Thirdgens do have their good points especially if they're modified. But there's not many that are going to turn heads like a split bumper, or late 70's Camaro. I had thought about doing something similar with an early 70's Firebird but wasn't sure if it could be made to handle as well.

[Stuart Adams]

i think the choices were either 2nd or 3rd gen.

My bad. Sorry to sidetrack the thread.

2nd gen.

[coolwelder62]

The bad thing w/ the 3rd.gens is no goodguys except CA. the rest of us have to have 72 and older.If we want to autox at goodguys. I have a 2nd. gen w/ C-6 corvette stub,DSE mini tubed, all new sheet metal,grill,split bumper non rs frt.DSE style 4 link rear w /9in housing,moser 31 spline axles (project car w/ lots of parts).PM for photos.Scott

[tazzz2_ca]

Guess I'm late to the party. Thirdgens do have their good points especially if they're modified. But there's not many that are going to turn heads like a split bumper, or late 70's Camaro. I had thought about doing something similar with an early 70's Firebird but wasn't sure if it could be made to handle as well.

Speaking from experience, the Bird is a lot more expensive to build, but very very cool...

I own 2 early second gens and 5 early second gen birds.... The birds were the "Gentleman's" car and handled better from the factory than the Camaro, however, the whole issue becomes mute when you start with the after market offerings as they are both f-body platforms.. Clearly a LS style conversion is the more common mod approach, however I choose to do things the hard way on my builds:

70 RS Z clone ---- 383 & 700R4
72RS -----556 All Aluminum pump Gas & 600TKO
70 Formula 400 --463 & 600 TKO
73 TA --440 injected pump gas & a Keisler t56 Dog Box (Project WarPath under construction currently)

If you're doing a budget mined car, then the suspension on the Bird with minor mods will do pretty darn good.... They had some pretty darn beefy factory sway bars and with some updated adjustable shocks, better brakes and new body bushings people can get pretty surprised how well these cars handle...Given an ability to keep the weight out of the nose, and nicer deluxe interiors, I'll take the TA's and Formula's over the Camaro's just because you don't see so many,,,, guess it's all choices (and before anyone takes offense,,, I love my Camaro's too)...

[elitecustombody]

2nd gen all day...

if you got heart, then a 3rd gen... no love for that one so it takes heart to do one.


Amen to that:lateral:

[HOLOHAN'S HOT ROD SHOP]

2nd Gen Camaro of Firebird. Not many Firebirds done right now and still affordable. Even if you picked up an Esprit.
I have been told that the 2nd Gen handles better with the DSE Quarda-Link rear compared to the 1st Gen. It's been guesstimated that it's the location of the upper link above the rear end that makes the difference.

[HotRodKush]

Thanks again for the posts guys. After some deliberation on and off the forum, I decided to follow the general opinion and go with a second gen. I took a look at two cars today, and after driving them I'm sold on them rather than another third gen.

The first car was a '79 Z28 - had a strong 383 and TH-350 trans, but had some decent rust. More importantly, it had no title or current registration, and I'm not willing to go through the hassle with the DMV again to get a title in my name (I did it once already, never again).

The second car was an '80 Z28, a numbers matching car with a muncie 4 speed. Had some minor rust but the subframes and floors were solid. The motor was the stock 350, in fact it looked like the entire car is 100% original and stock. The clutch was replaced recently and was VERY heavy and engaged almost at the top of the pedal travel, leading me to believe that it was either installed incorrectly or with the wrong parts. The suspension is shot all around, the front A-arms are sitting on the bump stops and the rear is riding on the springs only (a non-issue since I'll be replacing everything anyway). The windshield is cracked and will need to be replaced. I'm less concerned with all of that than with rust, and overall it's a very solid car - the asking price is very fair given that this is a numbers matching, complete Z28. It needs some work but it's a car that I can almost immediately start building up, rather than dealing with structural damage or major rust in the beginning - and it's a car I can drive as I'm working on it if I choose to.

I'm going to call the guy tomorrow and if it's still there I'll likely be going back to complete the sale. If that happens, I'll probably start a build thread here to keep everything documented.

[tones2SS]

Keep us posted on your build.
GOOD LUCK!!:thumbsup:

[HotRodKush]

Got the car :thumbsup:

Took it home today, I'll start a new build thread when I start working on it and cross-link here.

[70rs]

Off and runnin'! Cool, keep us posted please.:thumbsup:

[Neil B]

Congrats on the new project. The 2nd Gen is the right choice and better platform when you consider resale.

However, after putting preferences for looks and potential resale value aside (admittedly important factors), how can you guys say the 2nd gen is a better starting platform? The 3rd Gen has a strut type front suspension that is still used on modern 911's and BMWs and a torque arm/panhard bar rear suspension that is vastly superior to the 2nd Gen's leaf springs. As another point of reference, a showroom stock-prepped 3rd Gen with a stock TPI 305 will wax the floor with a full-on vintage T/A car with a 450hp 302.

Now it might be a different story once you start replacing front clips and re-fabbing the rear suspension, but throw the same basic parts (springs, shocks, bars, bushings, and brakes) at a 3rd Gen and 2nd Gen and it's hard to argue the merits of a more modern suspension design.

[70rs]

Congrats on the new project. The 2nd Gen is the right choice and better platform when you consider resale.

However, after putting preferences for looks and potential resale value aside (admittedly important factors), how can you guys say the 2nd gen is a better starting platform? The 3rd Gen has a strut type front suspension that is still used on modern 911's and BMWs and a torque arm/panhard bar rear suspension that is vastly superior to the 2nd Gen's leaf springs. As another point of reference, a showroom stock-prepped 3rd Gen with a stock TPI 305 will wax the floor with a full-on vintage T/A car with a 450hp 302.

Now it might be a different story once you start replacing front clips and re-fabbing the rear suspension, but throw the same basic parts (springs, shocks, bars, bushings, and brakes) at a 3rd Gen and 2nd Gen and it's hard to argue the merits of a more modern suspension design.


I agree with you entirely.

I based my response on looks and "feeling" about the car. But my reply was geared more to the early second gens only because I really like how they look. Also knowing he was going to replace the suspension and modify the drivetrain it made the choice(for me at least) an easy one. A second gen prepared correctly VS a third gen prepared the same way will be a close call. It would come down to driver talent.
But for resale, style, or any reason EXCEPT the original suspension design a second gen wins every time in my book.
Either way it is all just a matter of what you like. To each his own.:cheers:

[HotRodKush]

I agree, and that's why it was such a hard decision for me to make. I had to weigh my personal taste in the cars vs. the performance potential of each generation. Looks won out, but I'm sure that with the right upgrades the car will handle to my liking. It'll be used for joyrides, autoX and some track use, so it won't be a full-blown race car but rather a fun all-around performer. When it comes down to it I'm willing to trade race-car handling for a car that I can't stop staring at :bow:

[70rs]

I agree, and that's why it was such a hard decision for me to make. I had to weigh my personal taste in the cars vs. the performance potential of each generation. Looks won out, but I'm sure that with the right upgrades the car will handle to my liking. It'll be used for joyrides, autoX and some track use, so it won't be a full-blown race car but rather a fun all-around performer. When it comes down to it I'm willing to trade race-car handling for a car that I can't stop staring at :bow:

But...but....but...you CAN have race car handling in a car you can't stop staring at.......:D


You can make that Z handle VERY well. And without too much effort either.

[rwhite692]

Congrats on your new project...That would make a great project for an LS conversion.

Being that it will not be emissions-exempt, you will have a bit of a challenge to stay legal.

NY is getting to be almost as bad as CA.

[HotRodKush]

Being that it will not be emissions-exempt, you will have a bit of a challenge to stay legal.


As far as I know, NY only requires emissions testing for cars less than 25 years old:
http://www.nysdmv.com/vehsafe.htm#einspect

[Scorpner]

I really like the body style and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it. :thumbsup:

[HotRodKush]

Thanks! Just started a build thread here:
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?p=258977

[rwhite692]

As far as I know, NY only requires emissions testing for cars less than 25 years old:
http://www.nysdmv.com/vehsafe.htm#einspect


Wow...you are right. In my brain, I couldn't equate that car as being that old yet.


Boy, do I suddenly feel ....OLD!

[HotRodKush]

I hear ya, believe me.

[COYBILT]

second gen, but there is a calling from knight rider on this one.