1972 Procharged 581 Camaro

[speedjohnston]

I have been a member here for some time, usually just reading threads for my own knowledge and trying to help out with a little input where I can. A few people asked for a build thread of my project so I will start one today. The project has been slow going, but I am patient and determined to make it the way I want it. I have no sponsors, but I have been in contact and got great advice from some of who I think were the best people to help me on this project.
There will be a kind of evolution of the build as I have plans to do some racing in different events, it is however built as a street car. The cage is installed for my safety (and the passengers) to do the events that I want to do. Although for some a street car has different meanings, it will have all functional mandatory equipment and will be driven on the street. Its not meant to appear stock, its not meant to be stealth, its just meant to be what I want and drive like I want. :)
So, I will start where I started, with the motor.

581 cubic inch big block chevy.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/IMG_0018.jpg

One giant set of air flow research heads.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/IMG_0038.jpg

Edelbrock intake.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/IMG_0031.jpg

The F2 procharger.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/may2006008.jpg

[speedjohnston]

Then when we were all done it went on the dyno. At the time, to be safe it ran on 80% pump gas and 20% 110... maybe 116 octane fuel. It was only run to 5500rpm because at the time I had no intercooler and the inlet temp was getting warm. We used the pullies I had at the time wich made 17lbs of boost. I will probably not spin it too high unless I need to, but the cam is suppose to make peak power at 7400 rpm. It, along with the carb and the procharger, were purchased through Steve morris who is the procharger Guru.
Here it is making a little noise. Its not a very good video but its all I had at the time.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/th_dynovid.jpg (http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/?action=view&current=dynovid.flv)

[speedjohnston]

Next the car was stripped of its old cage and the new one was started. A perimeter frame was slid inside the rockers, and almost all but a small section of front frame was removed. Here are a few pics of the work while it was being done.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0531.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0569-1.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0520.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0568.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0567.jpg

[pokey64]

That is one serious looking cage system. Nice build!

[speedjohnston]

I love the cage, but did not enjoy painting it in my garage. :P

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01015.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01018.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01053.jpg

[70rs]

:cheers: Very, very cool! Thank you for starting this thread.:cheers:

[LSXZ28]

Lookin great! Some serious tubing going on there!

[speedjohnston]

While it was still in the chassis shop I had them build me a set of 2 1/2" x 5" headers. The 5" collector is made flat to keep as much ground clearance as I can.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0579.jpg

After I got it home I had them coated.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0655.jpg

A couple shots of them in the car

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01174.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01236.jpg

[californiacuda]

Thanks for sharing, what procharger are you running and did you think about turbos?

[66LS7]

That video of the engine on the dyno sounded great, can't wait to see more pics. I see you've set that motor back quite a bit, looking good.:thumbsup:



Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

[speedjohnston]

Thanks for sharing, what procharger are you running and did you think about turbos?

The procharger is a F2 and it makes fairly decent power. I did consider turbos as well, but decided to go with the blower. Both have there pros and cons, but for me the blower was the best all around choice at the time. The biggest draw back is the noise to some people for a street car and I had a 6/71 blower on my last engine with 3 1/2 inch straight through exhaust (mufflers but barely) and it doesn't bother me at all. If I ran turbos I would have had to run them up high to because of all the coolers I'll have in the front.

[deuce_454]

ive been a passenger in a procharged 540 bigblock car once, and he was running about 4000 stall, so at low rpm it was not making boost really a dog... not even impressive acceleration-wise.. 4wd volkswagens would get the jump on him.. and when he mashed the throttle, it would flash to 4000 rpm, make 12-14 psi boost and simply roast the tires, at almost any speed below 100 mph... the acceleration was equal to no boost, the volkswagen would continue to gain and i felt like i was having a near death experience.... im curious how yours will run, you do seem to have lots of tire.. but that has to be close a 900+ Hp engine, thats an awfull lot to put domn on the street...

[speedjohnston]

ive been a passenger in a procharged 540 bigblock car once, and he was running about 4000 stall, so at low rpm it was not making boost really a dog... not even impressive acceleration-wise.. 4wd volkswagens would get the jump on him.. and when he mashed the throttle, it would flash to 4000 rpm, make 12-14 psi boost and simply roast the tires, at almost any speed below 100 mph... the acceleration was equal to no boost, the volkswagen would continue to gain and i felt like i was having a near death experience.... im curious how yours will run, you do seem to have lots of tire.. but that has to be close a 900+ Hp engine, thats an awfull lot to put domn on the street...

This one will work a little different. It will not have a 4000 stall for one, and it probably makes a little more low end torque then the one you were in (maybe not).
I don't have a scanner but the dyno numbers were kinda like this...
3400rpm 795lb-ft 514hp
4000rpm 898lb-ft 684hp
4500rpm 1009lb-ft 864hp
5000rpm 1120lb-ft 1067hp
5500rpm 1178lb-ft 1234hp and the torque was still climbing at this point.
This is where we left it. The intention was to dyno it again to 6000 or 6500 with the intercooler on. I had a custom one from bell made but the engine hasn't been back on the dyno yet.

I had the intercooler mounts made at the chassis shop so when it came home it was in the car. After this pic was taken I had the intake shortened 2 inches to lower the over all height of the motor in the car. The carb hat was also changed from the one on the dyno to the extreme velocity one. It is said to make 25-30 more horsepower then the stock procharger hat.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0600.jpg

[deuce_454]

holy crap.. that thing is going to be an absolute monster.. it looks to come on smooth judging by the numbers, and i totally agree on the choice of power adder, it will not surprise you in any way when boost comes on like a turbo car can.. im sure most of the problem with the car i was in down to poor suspension, bad tirechoice and that converter..

[DFRESH]

Dude--insane! I love it. What are your plans for the car then? Is this PT, drag, street---all three or what? Freaking awesome---

Doug

[speedjohnston]

Dude--insane! I love it. What are your plans for the car then? Is this PT, drag, street---all three or what? Freaking awesome---

Doug

The first thing is to get it running so I can drive it on the street. Then some testing at the local drag track to get everything sorted out at speed. If all goes well, a trip to maxton and hopefully the silver state classic. I don't think it will do so hot in an autocross. lol
Thats all part of the progression I was talking about, but as I post more pics you'll see its built to go around corners and stop to. ;)

[70rs]

Great numbers on the motor. This should be a beast on the track once you get the suspension all sorted out.:cheers:

[JimM]

Very nice, love those headers!

[speedjohnston]

The rear suspension was made to articulate to avoid binding but I may adjust it if needed when I get to the cornering part. There is a large center brace to keep it from shifting side to side.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01146.jpg

Pardon the surface rust, I haven't stripped and painted this portion yet.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01147.jpg

[tones2SS]

VERY, VERY NICE!!! Glad you started a thread for the build. Should be one heck of a beast with those numbers and the suspension/minitubs.
Keep us posted please!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[speedjohnston]

I'm trying to post pics up to its present state with a bit of the build pics in while I have time but it takes time to load all this stuff. :rolleyes:
I'll post one more for now of the start of the front suspension. sorry about jumping all over the place. When i do get to the present day it will be easier to follow.

This is a pic with the SPC a-arms and c5/c6 style spindles. For the front suspension and brakes is where I got Mark from SC&C involved. I'm doing it from home but I bug him as often as i think I can get away with. :)
Thanks Mark!

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC00850.jpg

and the brakes 14" Baer 6S extreme plus

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC00843.jpg

[70rs]

This is great, don't worry about the order. It is still easy to follow along. Thankks again for posting all of this.:thumbsup:

[thedude327]

Steve,

After seeing those dyno numbers you posted, I think that 200mph is not out of the question............;) I saw that you were looking into the silver state challenge, are you also considering Bonneville? Any plans for a Nascar style splitter to keep the front end planted on the pavement? Glad you started this build thread !!!

Paul
:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Steve,

After seeing those dyno numbers you posted, I think that 200mph is not out of the question............;) I saw that you were looking into the silver state challenge, are you also considering Bonneville? Any plans for a Nascar style splitter to keep the front end planted on the pavement? Glad you started this build thread !!!

Paul
:thumbsup:

Probably no bonneville. At leat for a while. I'll keep it on pavement for at least a couple years after its done. And yes I have considered a splitter among other aero mods to keep my baby on the ground. I have plans for a unique hood to, but that won't be for a while. That will probably come just before paint, and for me paint will be last.

[ItDoRun]

Great looking project. Keep the updates coming.

[waynieZ]

Wow those are some big numbers, They are like a big turbo Diesel torque numbers. Sweet project.

[speedjohnston]

I had a custom steering box made to slow down the steering for high speed driving. I think it was 17.5:1. Then some Howe adjustable tie rod ends etc. and some custom steering arms. First I had them made out of steel but they were too heavy so I had them made from 7075 aluminum. I still have a little work to do in this area but its almost sorted out.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01101.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01276.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01196.jpg

[70rs]

Very nice! The steering arm is a really nice piece too. Have you had a chance to drive with that steering box yet? That is a pretty slow ratio but I understand why you did it. Just wondering how it feels on the road.

[speedjohnston]

Very nice! The steering arm is a really nice piece too. Have you had a chance to drive with that steering box yet? That is a pretty slow ratio but I understand why you did it. Just wondering how it feels on the road.

No, I haven't driven with it yet. Its not much farther along then that last set of pics. I'm still missing all the electrical, fuel system, exhaust (other then the headers) and the transmission. So much money to be spent still and so little time. :(
I did answer a lot of questions when I bought it and the power steering pump. The pump was built to match the box and the box is valved to have the 'feel' I wanted.

[Cris@JCG]

Good to see a thread on this build! :thumbsup: I think I am going to have to start working on my 70 Z this year.. 2nd gen's are becoming popular :D Good thing I have 3 of them!!

[californiacuda]

I have a project where I need new fabricated lower control arms for front c5 spindles. I thought I saw some in your pics, anybody I can call?

[White.Lightning]

Sick buildup. Nothing beats a BBC and a blower! :)

[speedjohnston]

I have a project where I need new fabricated lower control arms for front c5 spindles. I thought I saw some in your pics, anybody I can call?

Those are an AFX spindles made to bolt on a camaro. The lower A-arms are SPC ones that I bought from Mark Savitske at SC&C. You can just click on his banner on the side of this page and see if he can help you.

[tones2SS]

Sick buildup. Nothing beats a BBC and a blower! :)

I agree with the sick build remark.
BBC & ProCharged = BIG POWER!!!:wow: :thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Thanks guys. :cheers:

[nvr2fst]

While it was still in the chassis shop I had them build me a set of 2 1/2" x 5" headers. The 5" collector is made flat to keep as much ground clearance as I can.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0579.jpg

After I got it home I had them coated.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0655.jpg

A couple shots of them in the car

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01174.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01236.jpg

Nice project. Smart move on the flattened collector for ground clearance plus I never cared for an exhaust system "exposed" when viewing from a short distance.
Question- Dia. and length of your headers (huge) Do you feel any velocity may be lost when its controlling the speed of the exhaust pulse. Now assuming the tube length is timing the pulse to match with the cams certain RPM range, is there any down play with the flattened collector to the pulses scavenging versus a full or more rounded collector. I dont think there is but for my own knowledge Im curious.

[WSSix]

sick! I am so jealous of the perimeter frame. I'm seriously considering that for my 79 eventually. I'm finding rust I want to take care of and a perimeter frame can do so much more to stiffen the chassis than sub frame connectors and a cage. I wouldn't even need a serious one to be effective. Keep posting pictures. This thing is going to be wild.

[speedjohnston]

Nice project. Smart move on the flattened collector for ground clearance plus I never cared for an exhaust system "exposed" when viewing from a short distance.
Question- Dia. and length of your headers (huge) Do you feel any velocity may be lost when its controlling the speed of the exhaust pulse. Now assuming the tube length is timing the pulse to match with the cams certain RPM range, is there any down play with the flattened collector to the pulses scavenging versus a full or more rounded collector. I dont think there is but for my own knowledge Im curious.

This answer is of course only my opinion, but I did do a lot of research before I had them built. First the diameter of the primaries is 2 1/2" and the collector is equivelant to a 5" round pipe. The primary tube length is about 32". The length is just a fairly safe normal tube length. Steve Morris being the guru of procharged big blocks is the one who told me to use this size. There is probably not a single person who knows more about them (again in my opinion). He used to have a business by his own name but now works with someone else at New Era Racecraft. Anyhow, he has never tried the flat collector but couldn't see how it would hurt in a supercharged car. I then talked to my engine builder that assembled it got the same answer. I talked to procharger, the guy who built the collectors (Dan Lemons of Lemons Headers) and the guy who built the headers all with the same answer. The flat collector will hurt power on an N/A car because the header scavenging effect won't be as strong so if its not supercharged I would not go this route. The blower motor doesn't care so much as its being forced through from the other end. Also, a blower motor just likes to get rid of the exhaust as fast as possible, and probably would work fine with no collector at all. There are of course other factors sometimes but in my case I had to do something anyway because they would be dragging on the ground with 2 round 5" pipes under the car on the street. :lol:

[nvr2fst]

Thanks for your reply. Like I said just curious on your selection. I haven't seen the flat collectors used alot outside of transverse mounted inline 4 bangers. I also should have asked as you mentioned if the procharger played a part in exiting. I guess in theory (2 sizes larger than primary) as you described in your sizing there probably is no hinder. However I did notice that they are a decent length, (collectors) will this help in pulling torque to midrange or does the procharger's benefits weigh that difference null. I guess if you had no attention brought up by the individuals you mentioned its not a big deal. I spent some time researching header design on a blown 34 ford I had with just frustrating results, mainly due to the fab guy I hired. Live and learn, and still learning!

Subscribed to your future results

[speedjohnston]

Thanks for your reply. Like I said just curious on your selection. I haven't seen the flat collectors used alot outside of transverse mounted inline 4 bangers. I also should have asked as you mentioned if the procharger played a part in exiting. I guess in theory (2 sizes larger than primary) as you described in your sizing there probably is no hinder. However I did notice that they are a decent length, (collectors) will this help in pulling torque to midrange or does the procharger's benefits weigh that difference null. I guess if you had no attention brought up by the individuals you mentioned its not a big deal. I spent some time researching header design on a blown 34 ford I had with just frustrating results, mainly due to the fab guy I hired. Live and learn, and still learning!

Subscribed to your future results

Its hard to find good info on a blower type street exhaust. Its allways an experiment and a compromise. All we can do is guess wisely when you want something different. It would be very interesting to try it on the dyno with different headers from zoomies to short tube round collector, flat collector, etc. The nice thing with the blower is if your down on power, just add more boost. :lol:

[speedjohnston]

Here's a couple shots with the front Forgeline ZX3R's, 10 1/2" and titanium fastners with michelin pilot sport cup tires. The front fenders were not on the car when I ordered them so I played it safe knowing I can replace the shells and widen the wheels after.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01140.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01254.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01282.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/CopyofDSC01180.jpg

Too many pictures I know, but I really love the wheels. The pictures don't do them justice. The guys at forgeline are extremely helpfull and I strongly recomend them to anyone.

[70rs]

VERY NICE!!:thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

VERY NICE!!:thumbsup:

Very well said. I agree with Eric.
Keep us posted.

[speedjohnston]

And here's the back. Same thing but 13" wide. The tires are the M/T wich should work well for some initial testing and 1 mile runs. You can see the flares well in these photos, all made in steel.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01145.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01178.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01279.jpg

[COYBILT]

why have a small motor when you can have a big one is what I say.

That 581 is beautiful!!!!

[speedjohnston]

why have a small motor when you can have a big one is what I say.

That 581 is beautiful!!!!

Thank you. I waited a long time for that. My wife wears my first 1000 horse motor on her finger. Took me over 5 years after that before I could think about building it. lol

[nvr2fst]

This is a really nice ride, from the perimeter frame, to the engine and yes the wheels (knowing how much you like them. Keep it up looks great.
BTW- first engine sitting on your wife's finger... keep in mind, she's being supportive letting you continue with the project.

[Al Moreno]

581, pretty cool but when does a Camaro stop being a Camaro, that's what I wantna know? :_paranoid

[Roger M]

Looks Killer!:thumbsup:

581, pretty cool but when does a Camaro stop being a Camaro, that's what I wantna know? :_paranoid

It depends on which UNIVERSE your'e in.:_paranoid

[speedjohnston]

This is a really nice ride, from the perimeter frame, to the engine and yes the wheels (knowing how much you like them. Keep it up looks great.
BTW- first engine sitting on your wife's finger... keep in mind, she's being supportive letting you continue with the project.

The part about my wife is very true. She has been very supportive. We made an agreement to keep all my road terrors to 4 wheels and not 2 and I could make it as fast as I wanted. She probably didn't quite expect this but she never complains and is a bit of a motor head herself. She also gets to drive around in a new corvette convertible and that helps to. :)

[speedjohnston]

581, pretty cool but when does a Camaro stop being a Camaro, that's what I wantna know? :_paranoid

Its a pretty camaro skin... thats about it. ;)

[silver63c10]

Absolutely overkill from front to back, and all on a 2nd gen, I like it a lot. The engine, the chassis work, the wheels, just killer all around. Can't wait to see it tearing up some pavement.

I also like that you're planning on doing different things with it, too, we set that goal with ours, and while it made a lot of things much more difficult I'm extremely glad we did. Went on Drag Week last September, now spending the winter getting ready for some autocross and track days, and hitting the Texas Mile in March. It's a sickness :willy:

[Al Moreno]

Looks Killer!:thumbsup:



It depends on which UNIVERSE your'e in.:_paranoid

To funny, maybe we should look for the Baddest 2nd Gen "to INFINITY AND BEYOND" :willy:

[speedjohnston]

To funny, maybe we should look for the Baddest 2nd Gen "to INFINITY AND BEYOND" :willy:

I have the baddest 2nd gen on my block for sure. Other then that I don't want to be a part of that discussion. :lol:

[deuce_454]

:willy: now i feel like selling everything i own, building a 502 with big heads and an f2... so thanx alot!! :mad:

what kind of transmission are you running??

[MarkM66]

Looks great.

What are you doing for a radiator?

[speedjohnston]

:willy: now i feel like selling everything i own, building a 502 with big heads and an f2... so thanx alot!! :mad:

what kind of transmission are you running??

The transmission isn't purchased yet. I have a few ideas I have been tossing around and I know what my #1 pick is but if something better comes along before I buy it I will get that instead. the tunnels is big enough to fit a turbo 400 and a gear vendor wich would probably be the biggest thing in there. When I do the purchase I will let everyone know but its still up in the air. Its just hard to get a manual tranny that can handle that much torque and be reliable so....

[speedjohnston]

Looks great.

What are you doing for a radiator?

As far as rad or maybe rads in this case, I have talked with Ron Davis about making 3 to get them in the space I need them to fit. I'm going to try to figure another way, but to keep my intercooler where it is and get the cooling I would need for silver state I either change the lower tube on the intercooler or install multiple rads. There isn't a lot of room between the intercooler pipes.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0600.jpg

[MarkM66]

As far as rad or maybe rads in this case, I have talked with Ron Davis about making 3 to get them in the space I need them to fit. I'm going to try to figure another way, but to keep my intercooler where it is and get the cooling I would need for silver state I either change the lower tube on the intercooler or install multiple rads. There isn't a lot of room between the intercooler pipes.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0600.jpg

Maybe you already said, but why didn't you have the inlet and outlet come out the sides of the intercooler?

That way there'd be more room for a radiator.

[speedjohnston]

Maybe you already said, but why didn't you have the inlet and outlet come out the sides of the intercooler?

That way there'd be more room for a radiator.

The bottom one can be moved wich was what I was kinda indicating earlier, the top one has to stay. The top one coming out the side would mean lowering the intercooler to clear the hood and it wouldn't have the air that it will get now. I had some other initial plans trying to think outside the box, but if it doesn't work I will have to move that lower inlet. You can see in this photo how the intercooler is making maximum use of its 'big smile'. This photo was taken before I had the intake lowered so I allready have to have the upper tube changed.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/PDRM0588.jpg

[speedjohnston]

So after all that this is what I have for now just before I closed the garage up for winter.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01278.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01242.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01269-1.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01253.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01226.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01252.jpg

[66LS7]

Very Cool!!!:lateral:




Randy(D&Z Customs LLC.)
[email protected]
1-262-347-9741

[tones2SS]

VERY AWESOME!!
One hell of a build. Keep us posted.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[sixnina]

VERY AWESOME!!
One hell of a build. Keep us posted.:thumbsup: :cheers:

x2 will be watching this one.

[LSXZ28]

Awesome build!! :thumbsup:

[dmc69]

Gonna b awsome!

[speedjohnston]

Thanks guys. I sure hope it works! Hopefully some testing mid summer depending on money and time. (mostly money) :morepower

[dezl]

wow! That thing is awesome!

[thedude327]

Steve,

That thing looks scary fast just standing still !! Nice proj. !!

Paul

[Ricochet]

Cool looking project! Should be handful!! In a good way! Look forward to seeing this one come together!

[tones2SS]

Any updates on this bad boy?:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Unfortunately no... hopefully in feb I can start collecting more parts.

[tgvettes]

Can't wait to see this one done. It is totally my style of 2nd gen. what's missing? looks like you have all the important stuff.

Tonny

[speedjohnston]

Can't wait to see this one done. It is totally my style of 2nd gen. what's missing? looks like you have all the important stuff.

Tonny

The biggest things left are the transmission, electrical, and fuel system with lots of little odds and ends. That will get it rolling but not finished. At least now there is an end in site. :cheers:

[tgvettes]

Tranny, that is a big deal of course. What are you going to use?

Tonny

[tony byram]

I own a 72 Camaro too, WoW! Im glad you started this thread! Im old school and diggin the fender flairs! Not much 72 Camaro left on this one(LOL)! Thats alright though because this thing looks like its gonna be more like a ballistic missle! Aim it in the direction you want to go and FIRE! :thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Tranny, that is a big deal of course. What are you going to use?

Tonny

Its not 100% yet but probably a 400 with a gear vendor. I think thats about the only thing that will handle the torque and be reliable to any degree. Thats not to start any arguements, I'm still open to something else. I also need the overdrive to reach its potential top speed. :_paranoid

[70rs]

Its not 100% yet but probably a 400 with a gear vendor. I think thats about the only thing that will handle the torque and be reliable to any degree. Thats not to start any arguements, I'm still open to something else. I also need the overdrive to reach its potential top speed. :_paranoid

Are you opposed to a manual trans?

[speedjohnston]

Are you opposed to a manual trans?

I am not oppose to it, I just haven't seen one last with that kind of torque. Everyone seems to have issues. You can definately make some passes but to last a season of abuse I'm not too sure. If you know of any feel free to make suggestions. It just has to have an overdrive and handle over 1200ft/lbs of torque (that is actually my starting point if all goes well). Keep in mind also the car may have slicks on it at times, and that will be even more stressfull on it. I will be leaving the transmission to be one of the last things and will purchase the best I can afford at the time.

[70rs]

I knew you were going to push some serious power but was not thinking 1200ft/lbs and slicks! :willy:

I honestly don't know of any manual that would also work on the street, auto x, or drag strip and serve your needs. I have never driven anything with a manual transmissions meant for that kind of abuse so I can not comment on how they would do.

[tones2SS]

Are you opposed to a manual trans?

I am not oppose to it, I just haven't seen one last with that kind of torque. Everyone seems to have issues.

I've heard the same thing about manual trans on another forum. Some of them can't handle the torque.:_paranoid

[hellrace]

Great build man, should be a blast to drive :cheers:

[tgvettes]

1200 ft/lbs of torque is going to hurt any tranny LOL I think your thinking is right tough that a TH400 with gearvendor overdrive is one of the few boxes that can be built to take that much abuse. I would run a manual trans however I think I would probably have a little less power then you. hehehe

Tonny

[speedjohnston]

The nice thing is the 400 can be built with engine breaking and the gear vendor gives you 6 speeds. If the auto (really a manual automatic) robs too much power I can just add more boost. :P I'm pretty sure it won't be an issue. I was also probably going with a bolt together torque converter so I can change the stall speed myself. If I do the 400 i'll let you know how it works out. :cheers:

[tony byram]

Im running a 400TH with gearvendors on my big-block and love it. No issues with it and you can split shift as you said a 6 speed auto. Its a great set-up.:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Im running a 400TH with gearvendors on my big-block and love it. No issues with it and you can split shift as you said a 6 speed auto. Its a great set-up.:thumbsup:

Good to hear! :cheers:

[WSSix]

Are you planning to drag race the car with the slicks or just road race it? I'd be willing to bet that if you're not planning to drag race it that Rockland Standard or Liberty can build you a transmission that will hold up. It's worth a call at least.

I do think the 400 with the GV unit would be a better choice though. You'll have enough on your mind while piloting to worry about. No since in making gear selection anything more complicated than just tapping up or down on a lever or paddle.

[speedjohnston]

Are you planning to drag race the car with the slicks or just road race it? I'd be willing to bet that if you're not planning to drag race it that Rockland Standard or Liberty can build you a transmission that will hold up. It's worth a call at least.

I do think the 400 with the GV unit would be a better choice though. You'll have enough on your mind while piloting to worry about. No since in making gear selection anything more complicated than just tapping up or down on a lever or paddle.

The car will be drag raced as well, mostly to tune it up for a 1 mile event. The problem is usually the same, and I have talked to liberty, jerico, lenco etc. They don't make the strong transmissions or gear sets with over drive. Thats the only way the car can reach its top end. There was one or 2 companies that did but it was barely an overdrive, something in the .9ish range. Thanks for the input though, I will check them all out again before I buy.

[71RS/SS396]

Im running a 400TH with gearvendors on my big-block and love it. No issues with it and you can split shift as you said a 6 speed auto. Its a great set-up.:thumbsup:

Your experience has been better than mine, I'm not happy with mine at all,noisey on down shifts ( clunks ) ,not enough overdrive,and gear vendors tech support has not been much help, kinda feel like they don't no their product very well. Just my.02 . love this project !

[MotleyDrew]

Hey...do I know you? Some guy that lives by me and calls my house at all hours of the day has the exact same car...if you are talking too him kindly tell him to F&*k off :)

all kidding aside..

This car is really fantastic up close as well. Steve's attention to detail has been unsurpased. I remember sitting in his living room and we were talking about this type of thing as a pipe dream and now its really comming together. Like anything this build has caused numerous frustrations, more money than expected, and some time frames didn't go as planned but when all is said and done he really has created a great piece of machinery ! Steve loves to go fast....so do I but I have my limits...not sure Steve has found his yet :)

I will stop writing now as I am getting teary eye'd :)

not bad for my first post eh Johnston :)

[MotleyDrew]

The car will be drag raced as well, mostly to tune it up for a 1 mile event. The problem is usually the same, and I have talked to liberty, jerico, lenco etc. They don't make the strong transmissions or gear sets with over drive. Thats the only way the car can reach its top end. There was one or 2 companies that did but it was barely an overdrive, something in the .9ish range. Thanks for the input though, I will check them all out again before I buy.

You know damn well I have a stock M12 Z06 tranny that we can slap in there...should hold for a good second or so :)

[GregWeld]

Killer --

Interesting rear end - should be hell for stout. I see THREE links - but I don't see anything that would act like a panhard bar... am I missing something??

[speedjohnston]

Killer --

Interesting rear end - should be hell for stout. I see THREE links - but I don't see anything that would act like a panhard bar... am I missing something??

If you look closely you can see its a 4 link with another 5th link at the top, center of the housing that keeps it all centered, but all joints will articulate. After it gets some initial testing I'm sure I will be adjusting/changing something.

[GregWeld]

Okay - will look at the pics again -- I was trying to find the "upper" bars but couldn't see them... but I'm old and don't see well.

[GregWeld]

Now I see 'em - the upper bars - not sure how I missed 'em the first time around... maybe I was too busy trying to find what was handling the side loads... :thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Now I see 'em - the upper bars - not sure how I missed 'em the first time around... maybe I was too busy trying to find what was handling the side loads... :thumbsup:

The pics not that good. I'll post some better ones when i get it all looking pretty. :)

[bmwwksmarc]

Don't know if you guys noticed, but I love the full adjustability of the front suspension so you can get the geometry "just right". Love the adjustable tie rod and idler arm height. No bump steer issues here.:unibrow:

Marc

[speedjohnston]

Don't know if you guys noticed, but I love the full adjustability of the front suspension so you can get the geometry "just right". Love the adjustable tie rod and idler arm height. No bump steer issues here.:unibrow:

Marc

Every piece is adjustable and the coil springs have hidden adjusters up inside the spring pockets to adjust ride height as well. A couple little tweaks and everything should work pretty good. :)

[speedjohnston]

A small update. I managed to get some steering in it this weekend.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01424.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01432.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01433.jpg
The removeable steering wheel really helps getting in and out and I can remove it to make it less appealing to steal when I go to get my groceries. :lol:

[70rs]

'cuz you'l be hauling groceris all the time in that beast right?:D

Awesome car. Glad you are back on it again.:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

The lower shaft. Both will crumple so I don't turn into a kabob.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01429.jpgSome of the lower shaft.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01428.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01427.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01426.jpg

[speedjohnston]

And I was happy to have an NHRA tech at my house today and have the car certified to go as fast as 7.50 in the 1/4 mile. I allready had the silver state classic guys ok the chassis pending a letter from my chassis builder wich I have.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01423.jpg

[speedjohnston]

'cuz you'l be hauling groceris all the time in that beast right?:D

Awesome car. Glad you are back on it again.:thumbsup:

You have to get the groceries at least once, just to say you did. :lol:
I should have afew more updates over the next couple weeks. parts are on the way. :)

[tones2SS]

Good deal. Keep us posted.
Nice to see some updates on this bad boy.:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

I have been working on little tidbits, putting things on the front suspension together and taking them apart. Had a few brackets added and fitted these up today.
After several attempts at trying to fit stock car style spring cups with spc lower control arms and my shocks, it didn't seem to work to well. The shocks would hit the cups, the spring would rub against the side of the frame because it sat on the cup and the cup adjusting nut sat loose.
I had the cup thread cut off and relocated a half inch over to clear the shock and center it in the pocket better.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01464.jpg
Then my neighbour Stu (best neighbour in the world ;) ) made me these spring cup adjusting nuts to make a better fit and a way to adjust them easily without removing all the suspension. A little heavier then stock, but in this case I think they are worth the extra ounces.
This is the old and new side by side.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01446.jpg
Then inside the spring pocket.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01461.jpg
And then with the spring in place.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01463.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01451.jpg

[speedjohnston]

Oh yeah. Thanks Stu!! :morepower

[speedjohnston]

I also had some brackets welded in to hold the sway bar in place, a 'u' chanel for future use, and a cap added to the front of the crossmember where I had to chop it off to clear the new center link.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01453.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01455.jpg
So tomorrow I paint these parts and start the finished assembly instead of fitting and tearing apart again. Crossing my fingers. :lol:

[BanditDave]

This is just too crazy man! I love it. :thumbsup:

Looks like you have a PS box there...where and what set-up were you going to use for the pump?

Thanks,
Dave

[tones2SS]

Very nice. She's moving right along.
Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

This is just too crazy man! I love it. :thumbsup:

Looks like you have a PS box there...where and what set-up were you going to use for the pump?

Thanks,
Dave

I have a Lee box, but the older style bigger one because they could do more with the valving for my application. I got it through Mark Savitske and it uses the type 2 pump that was put on a little steering dyno to get the feel that I want. It also has a slower ratio for the high speed stuff so my twitching won't put me in the weeds.

[ja.stoner63]

Thanks for the detailed pictures...just awesome.

[speedjohnston]

I got a little more work done this week with some paint touch ups to the new welded on parts and started hopefully for the last time final install of the front suspension components. I got some RCD Billstein shocks, and even though they are mounted in the stock location, I had to modify the bottom round bracket of the spc arms to clear the shock under full compression. A few minutes of grinding and a little touch up paint and all was good.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01468.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01469.jpg
and the spindles mounted with my steering arms also by my friend and good neighbour Stu
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01474.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01472.jpg
Sway bar is also mounted, at least the main bar anyway after spending about 2 hours pounding those bushings in place. :omg:
I have to get the arms pressed into shape and install the rod ends. The holes on the bars have to be drilled out after, and I'll have to make brackets to hold the lower rod ends. If anyone has any pics with a link to how they did it let me know. :cheers:

[MarkM66]

I got a little more work done this week with some paint touch ups to the new welded on parts and started hopefully for the last time final install of the front suspension components. I got some RCD Billstein shocks, and even though they are mounted in the stock location, I had to modify the bottom round bracket of the spc arms to clear the shock under full compression. A few minutes of grinding and a little touch up paint and all was good.

Sway bar is also mounted, at least the main bar anyway after spending about 2 hours pounding those bushings in place. :omg:
I have to get the arms pressed into shape and install the rod ends. The holes on the bars have to be drilled out after, and I'll have to make brackets to hold the lower rod ends. If anyone has any pics with a link to how they did it let me know. :cheers:

I did as DSE does on their sway bars, and use Ridetech posi links for sway bar connections.

http://www.detroitspeed.com/images/news_events/a-body-front-lg.jpg

I did straits on the bar end, and the control arm end.

They allow more motion then a rod end. And by going vertical through the arm, they take up less space.

[speedjohnston]

I did as DSE does on their sway bars, and use Ridetech posi links for sway bar connections.

http://www.detroitspeed.com/images/news_events/a-body-front-lg.jpg

I did straits on the bar end, and the control arm end.

They allow more motion then a rod end. And by going vertical through the arm, they take up less space.

Thats a good idea. I like how little space they use. Too bad I allready have the other links, but maybe I'll toss them in favour of this idea. Thanks! :cheers:

[BritishGreen68]

Who makes the steering linkage parts like the crossbar and the piece that bolts to the frame?

[coolwelder62]

wow!!! This is an awesome build.Look out new unfair camaro you might have some one that will shoot you down.Keep up the good work.:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Who makes the steering linkage parts like the crossbar and the piece that bolts to the frame?

The tie rod ends, idler arm, center link and steering box arm are all made by Howe. I purchased them from mark Savitske. The links between the tie rod ends I got from a local stock car place and I think they are made by Coleman. Just be aware they were made for stock cars and other mods may have to be made depending on what you are using them for. :thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

wow!!! This is an awesome build.Look out new unfair camaro you might have some one that will shoot you down.Keep up the good work.:thumbsup:

Thanks! :)

[BritishGreen68]

The tie rod ends, idler arm, center link and steering box arm are all made by Howe. I purchased them from mark Savitske. The links between the tie rod ends I got from a local stock car place and I think they are made by Coleman. Just be aware they were made for stock cars and other mods may have to be made depending on what you are using them for. :thumbsup:
thanks for the info!

[speedjohnston]

Getting a little more work done with the brakes mounted both sides and permanently. A little shimming was needed to center the caliper and a spacer under the radial bolts to keep the pads and retaining clip for the pads from rubbing.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01476.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01477.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01478.jpg

[speedjohnston]

I've also had a set of custom brackets being made by Jones Racing. Its a little tricky on my motor because of its location and the procharger. We discussed where I wanted my alternator and power steering pump mounted, then I gave them all the measurements they needed and they do a mock up on there in house big block. This is one of the pictures they sent of my brackets that should be shipped out this monday. If anyone needs custom brackets, give CJ a call. I also purchased my alternator and ps reservoir from him.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/mockup2.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Man!! this is one bad A&& build.I totally love this ride.And after seeing this and skull crusher,I will need to have a big block.

[speedjohnston]

Man!! this is one bad A&& build.I totally love this ride.And after seeing this and skull crusher,I will the have a big block.:thumbsup:

I don't think I could ever live up to 'skull crusher'. :lol:

[tones2SS]

I don't think I could ever live up to 'skull crusher'. :lol:

lol:lol:
Very nice build. Should be a killer car when complete. Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

[MotleyDrew]

I don't think I could ever live up to 'skull crusher'. :lol:

Agreed.....you'd be lucky if you lived up to a 74 Pinto .:lol: ....just remeber..."Skull Crusher" has to have Mickey Thompson Tires only to hold all the power and it has ...4 point 1...Oh....gears along with the smallest looking 3.5" exhaust I have ever seen. ;)

[speedjohnston]

I got my brackets installed, and the sway bar arms bent to shape.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01488.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01491.jpg
A few more little issues and parts and the front suspension should finally be together.
The Intercooler is out getting a tube inlet change and I'm waiting on the drawings for the radiator from Ron Davis. Hopefully I'll get a bunch more done over the next month. :)

[6D9]

I got my brackets installed, and the sway bar arms bent to shape.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01488.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01491.jpg
A few more little issues and parts and the front suspension should finally be together.
The Intercooler is out getting a tube inlet change and I'm waiting on the drawings for the radiator from Ron Davis. Hopefully I'll get a bunch more done over the next month. :)

That looks SICK!!!!!!

[speedjohnston]

That looks SICK!!!!!!

Thanks for noticing. I feel sick when I think about how much time and money I spent on it. :lol:

[tones2SS]

Thanks for noticing. I feel sick when I think about how much time and money I spent on it. :lol:

Dude, believe me, it looks killer. Show that bad boy off!! lolll....:thumbsup: :cheers:

[coolwelder62]

You know I went back and looked over the thread again, & WOW!!.This is cool.This is going to be one of the coolest 2gen's on the site.I Really like this car.Can't wait to see it in action.:hail: :thumbsup: Scott.

[speedjohnston]

The shop foreman was in as allways today. Ever patient and keeping the riff raff out. :lol:
He keeps me company during my many hours of work.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01493.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Look's like he could use a hair cut.Plus tell he is blocking the view of my favorite 2nd.gen.Man I love your car.Awesome stance.Scott:thumbsup:

[srh3trinity]

That stance is amazing. This will be one of the best 2nd gens around.

[tones2SS]

That's a cool shot! :thumbsup: My dog is the same way. has to be involved with whatever I am doing! lolllll..
That car is NASTY!:cheers:

[Alex396ss]

Beautiful car!

:captain:

Alex

[Nick.V70]

I love the engine set up. Can't wait to see it all together:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Thanks guys!

[byndbad914]

are you going to run the car at that ride height on the front? I ask because it from the shots from the front, it looks like your roll center is below ground. The plane drawn thru the ball joint back to the lower A arm bushings would be pointing upward as you look from center of the car toward the tire.

When I go back a couple pages and look at the front suspension shots with no tires, in nearly full droop, that plane looks roughly parallel to ground - this all may be vantage point issues with the pix, but if that is the case (parallel down around full droop) your roll center requires attention or this car will handle pretty poorly.

Not out to bad mouth, just opening up discussion in case this is something that was overlooked... and out of curiosity, what is the distance from the bottom of the spring pocket to the ground?

[speedjohnston]

are you going to run the car at that ride height on the front? I ask because it from the shots from the front, it looks like your roll center is below ground. The plane drawn thru the ball joint back to the lower A arm bushings would be pointing upward as you look from center of the car toward the tire.

When I go back a couple pages and look at the front suspension shots with no tires, in nearly full droop, that plane looks roughly parallel to ground - this all may be vantage point issues with the pix, but if that is the case (parallel down around full droop) your roll center requires attention or this car will handle pretty poorly.

Not out to bad mouth, just opening up discussion in case this is something that was overlooked... and out of curiosity, what is the distance from the bottom of the spring pocket to the ground?

Must be a vantage point thing. At full droop the outside hangs about 2" below center. The pics were taken when the car was dropped the first time from the jacks with the suspension in the way it is now. Good stance but lower then it will run at (except maybe maxton wich is a straight line). At ride height it is about level.
I haven't played with height a lot yet, just getting everything to clear and sort out all the issues.
The spring pocket is low, only about 2 1/2 inches from the ground the way it sits now.
The springs are 750lb, so it doesn't move around a lot when it is at its ride height.

[byndbad914]

If you have the lower plane thru the ball joints and inner pivots parallel to ground (not talking anti-dive, etc that will tip the plane, only looking in 2 dimensions from the front of the car) you should be okay. Roughly (by eye) your uppers would be only say 10-15 degrees of angle, which would put the roll center (RC) above ground but maybe around 2", but it also shouldn't move up and down a lot thru motion. Also your upper is short enough v. the lower you should still have camber gain for the first couple of inches of compression, so again, should be fine.

You just really want to be sure that the RC doesn't go from above ground to below ground and back - that is bad for handling. For a straight line none of this matters, but I do assume at some point you may want to go left or right at more than 0.4G :D

Also, keep in mind that you have spring rate, then there is wheel rate, or what is referred to as motion rate (R). On a strut style car where the spring is directly attached to wheel (in essence), the R is almost at 1:1 which means that for every 1" of wheel motion upward, the spring is compressed 1". You should measure yours to know for sure (super easy, PM if you want details on how to do it), but by eye I would guesstimate your spring's centerline to be roughly half way between the center of the tire contact patch and the lower A arms inner pivot points. So your ratio is 1/2:1 or 0.5.

BUT

when you do the spring rate math, that R value gets squared, meaning that if your R = 0.5, your wheel rate or "effective" spring rate is 1/4th (0.25) of the rate marked on the spring. So your 750 lb/in springs would really roughly equate to 750/4 = 188 lbs/in. I suspect, again by eye, you are not quite 0.5 and maybe more like 200 lb/in effective rate.

For comparison, my 914 Porsche race car, with no engine in the front and pretty light corner weights on each wheel (~500 lbs on each wheel sitting in the garage) I had struts with 300 lb/in springs and now am converting to my own custom dual A design with an R ~ 0.55, so to get about the same effective spring rate I am going to 1000 lb/in springs on the front! The rear is nearly the same story with 1500 lb/in rear springs v. the old 550 lb/in setup I had (motion ratio was around 0.9 before).

Lots o info there but figured you might like to know that if you didn't already, otherwise, it's here for others edification :cool:

[speedjohnston]

All the suspension build has been done with the advice and input of Mark Savitske. When the final assembly/ride height is done he will have me calling him again for the set up specs etc. For the most part I have it under control. (I think lol)
:cheers:

[speedjohnston]

I got the intercooler back yesterday with the inlet tube moved to create room for the new radiator. Hopefully I'll see that in the next week or so. :)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01500.jpg

[Procharmo]

You have an absolute monster in the making. Do you think you will have traction issues on the street? Or will you cruise on the streets and only go WOT on the track?

I had a lowly Procharged 355 SBC in my street car and so much time was spent at 1/4 throttle 1000 - 2500rpm my calf ached..... I could just about stay out of wheel spin when racing others and that was with 315/35/17 MT DRs on 11" rims.

I figure you will have maybe 600lbs of torque just off idle. It's going to be a handful but definitely fun....

Killer build!!http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/images/smilies/woot.gif

[speedjohnston]

You have an absolute monster in the making. Do you think you will have traction issues on the street? Or will you cruise on the streets and only go WOT on the track?

I had a lowly Procharged 355 SBC in my street car and so much time was spent at 1/4 throttle 1000 - 2500rpm my calf ached..... I could just about stay out of wheel spin when racing others and that was with 315/35/17 MT DRs on 11" rims.

I figure you will have maybe 600lbs of torque just off idle. It's going to be a handful but definitely fun....

Killer build!!http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/images/smilies/woot.gif

I was hoping I could just finesse it :_paranoid
I doubt I will be just stomping on it like I used to be able to, and thats what I wanted. I wanted a motor that had a little more then I could use and I would drive it at the best the car could handle. (or I can handle)

[coolwelder62]

Hey,Bud do you have any update's.:thumbsup: Scott

[speedjohnston]

Not too much done over the last few months, but I'll try to post up what little I did do over the weekend. Having some financial recuperation time. lol Hopefully back at it on a regular basis in march. :cheers:

[White.Lightning]

Wow!!!

[speedjohnston]

So here is one of my few updates. I came up with this gizmo to tie the sway bar to the lower control arm. Its just in loosely right now and the actual bolts and spacers may change, but this gives me quite a bit of adjustment because the link can also go on the other side of the tab. It also keeps a full range of turning for the wheels in that limited space. Hopefully it works ok.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02059.jpg

[tones2SS]

Looks great.
Nice to see you working on the car again. Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

I also got my custom double pass rad from Ron Davis, with dual spal fans.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02060.jpg

[MotleyDrew]

Any new updates ?

[speedjohnston]

Any new updates ?

Yeah, you just got yourself a life ban from my garage. :lol:

[Tom.A]

Wow. I missed this thread. That thing looks wicked.

[speedjohnston]

Weathers getting better so I could open the door and work. Got the suspension back together again minus a couple bump stops and the steering stops.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02075.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02076.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02077.jpg

[waynieZ]

That looks sweet . Nice set up.

[coolwelder62]

Look's great.Man i love this ride.Keep up the awesome progress.:thumbsup: Scott

[speedjohnston]

Look's great.Man i love this ride.Keep up the awesome progress.:thumbsup: Scott

Thanks Scott. I'm going to have you come up to Canada and make me one of those dashes for my car. :cheers:

[coolwelder62]

Thanks Scott. I'm going to have you come up to Canada and make me one of those dashes for my car. :cheers:I bet I could fab you the lower unit and the gauge insert and send it then you cut in the hole's needed for gauges switches,etc.Scott

[speedjohnston]

I bet I could fab you the lower unit and the gauge insert and send it then you cut in the hole's needed for gauges switches,etc.Scott

I will get in touch when I make it to the interior for sure. :thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Well, I lost my cable tv a few minutes ago so here's what I did today. :lol:
I have a feeling this will be one of those put it together take it apart 20 times things. Front end will go on tomorrow and set the intercooler height, then I'll make brackets to hold the rad in place.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02080.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02079.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02078.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Damn this is one bad a$$ ride.Awesome stance.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Look's great,keep the ggod work.

[novaboy7272]

This thing looks sweet! :unibrow: i can't wait to see video of it destroyin cars around it ha. :faint:

[speedjohnston]

Even though I measured everything 100 times the front fenders hadn't been on the car since before the wheels were ordered. I was glad to see everything fit. :lol: The car was sitting an inch lower then ride height to check clearances.
Transmission is finally ordered and should only be a few weeks away. :)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02081.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02095.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02098.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02086.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02087.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Man,I LOVE THIS CAMARO!!.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: This thing is so COOL.:thumbsup: BAD TO THE BONE:thumbsup: Did I say I like this car.:thumbsup: :D :D Scott M.

[scottysimp7]

It just looks fast sittin' still! Good lookin ride.

[56pickup]

man that motor looks killer in there! awesome looking project! :thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Thanks guys! :cheers:

[tones2SS]

Very, very nice. Great job. Car looks amazing.
Keep us posted.:thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

Any updates?

[speedjohnston]

I started to install the remote filter, I still have to purchase the cooler and lines, and hope to have the transmission on its way within a week or two. My allergies were so bad this week I haven't been in the garage for more then 15 min. :lol:

[WSSix]

The rims and wheels look great on there. I really hope you keep the paint job. Yeah, it's not the newest style but I dig it!

[killer67]

I just went through this post again. What an effort to build a monster of a second gen. Great motor, wheels, brakes, suspension detail, jungle gym in the interior, stance, everything..... WOW! :hail:

What ET/trap are you looking for? Shooting for 8's?

[killerjay]

Here's a couple shots with the front Forgeline ZX3R's, 10 1/2" and titanium fastners with michelin pilot sport cup tires. The front fenders were not on the car when I ordered them so I played it safe knowing I can replace the shells and widen the wheels after.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01140.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01254.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC01282.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/CopyofDSC01180.jpg

Too many pictures I know, but I really love the wheels. The pictures don't do them justice. The guys at forgeline are extremely helpfull and I strongly recomend them to anyone.

I just noticed the Idler Arm, Is this a one off piece or is it available somewhere.

Jay

[speedjohnston]

I just went through this post again. What an effort to build a monster of a second gen. Great motor, wheels, brakes, suspension detail, jungle gym in the interior, stance, everything..... WOW! :hail:

What ET/trap are you looking for? Shooting for 8's?

Something in the 8's should be very realistic I think for this car. With a lot of boost it would have a chance at the 7's but I wouldn't count on it. Anything in the 8's is great, and a low 8 for me and I would be very happy. :) Should trap in the 160 range maybe?

[speedjohnston]

I just noticed the Idler Arm, Is this a one off piece or is it available somewhere.

Jay

The idler arm is a Howe piece, made to work with there center link. Adjustability is super easy. I think it may have been slightly different length then stock and I had to adjust the mounting point without changing the angle, but I got it where I'm happy with it. Its really made for stock cars turning left, where it could have been mounted in the stock location with no issues. If you need any measurements shoot me a PM and I can get them for you. :cheers:

[tones2SS]

I started to install the remote filter, I still have to purchase the cooler and lines, and hope to have the transmission on its way within a week or two. My allergies were so bad this week I haven't been in the garage for more then 15 min. :lol:

Very cool. I thought you forgot about us.:_paranoid
Sorry about the allergies. It's a very bad season this year. Even my girlfriend that has never had allergies has them this year. Good luck!:cheers:

[twinturrbo406]

....... this car is what made me want to do my 67' Catalina with a similar stance and wheel package, this Camaro is off the chart !!!! Do you guys know if anyone makes a 345/35-18 in a standard radial ??? I dont wanna think how fast my 67' Cat would wear out the M/T's DR's with a bunch of street driving, :( as for this beast of a Camaro here, all i can say is ..... :hail: :hail: :hail: .....

[speedjohnston]

Hoosier and Kumho make a 345/35/18 but they are competition tires and will wear just as fast. Michelin makes a 345/30/19 that is 27" tall but you would need new back wheels. I'm not sure myself what I'm going to do after the initial testing and destruction of the MT's.

[twinturrbo406]

Hoosier and Kumho make a 345/35/18 but they are competition tires and will wear just as fast. Michelin makes a 345/30/19 that is 27" tall but you would need new back wheels. I'm not sure myself what I'm going to do after the initial testing and destruction of the MT's.

.... man, can you hook me up with some pic's ?? i wanna make your car my wallpaper ??? ...... ([email protected]) i tried to copy your pics, but they just come out as real skinny lines ....

[speedjohnston]

Finally saved up enough for my secret weapon. (its not really a secret) 4l80e full manual with engine braking and built to handle full throttle shifts into overdrive even with a blown big block making over 1200ft/lbs of torque.
Its a Rossler stage 4 with some special mods to handle the road race, drag, and 1 mile top speed needs of this car.
Lock up converter is on the way. :D


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02106.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02105.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02107.jpg

[70rs]

If ya gotta run a automatic....thats the one! Nice!

[coolwelder62]

Finally saved up enough for my secret weapon. (its not really a secret) 4l80e full manual with engine braking and built to handle full throttle shifts into overdrive even with a blown big block making over 1200ft/lbs of torque.
Its a Rossler stage 4 with some special mods to handle the road race, drag, and 1 mile top speed needs of this car.
Lock up converter is on the way. :D


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02106.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02105.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02107.jpg

WOW!! That thing look's super H.D.:thumbsup:

[Nick.V70]

Really diggin this build, keep the momentum up, its looking great and has some really nice product with lots of hard work going into it!:thumbsup:

[Nick.V70]

I'm trying to post pics up to its present state with a bit of the build pics in while I have time but it takes time to load all this stuff. :rolleyes:
I'll post one more for now of the start of the front suspension. sorry about jumping all over the place. When i do get to the present day it will be easier to follow.

This is a pic with the SPC a-arms and c5/c6 style spindles. For the front suspension and brakes is where I got Mark from SC&C involved. I'm doing it from home but I bug him as often as i think I can get away with. :)
Thanks Mark!

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC00850.jpg

and the brakes 14" Baer 6S extreme plus

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC00843.jpg

I got a little more work done this week with some paint touch ups to the new welded on parts and started hopefully for the last time final install of the front suspension components. I got some RCD Billstein shocks, and even though they are mounted in the stock location, I had to modify the bottom round bracket of the spc arms to clear the shock under full compression. A few minutes of grinding and a little touch up paint and all was good.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01468.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01469.jpg
and the spindles mounted with my steering arms also by my friend and good neighbour Stu
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01474.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC01472.jpg
Sway bar is also mounted, at least the main bar anyway after spending about 2 hours pounding those bushings in place. :omg:
I have to get the arms pressed into shape and install the rod ends. The holes on the bars have to be drilled out after, and I'll have to make brackets to hold the lower rod ends. If anyone has any pics with a link to how they did it let me know. :cheers:



Question,

- What made you go with Bilsteins over a adjustable style like Vair or QA1?

[tones2SS]

Very nice.
Keep us posted on your build. Should be a great one!

[waynieZ]

Definitly rugged looking. Nice trans.

[speedjohnston]

Question,

- What made you go with Bilsteins over a adjustable style like Vair or QA1?

I don't know myself first hand about all the different brands, QA1's were considered among others, but after discussing it with Mark Savitske of SC&C and Steve Duck of RCD I decided on the Bilsteins. The nice thing unlike most of the parts is they are not very expensive and changing them at a later date is not an issue. RCD was also able to supply the valving, length and change the ends on the shocks to suit my needs. :cheers:

[srh3trinity]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02106.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02105.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02107.jpg

So, somewhere there is an M1 Abrams tank without a transmission. This is a great build, not sure how I have missed it. Love the wheel choice.

[MattO]

So, somewhere there is an M1 Abrams tank without a transmission. This is a great build, not sure how I have missed it. Love the wheel choice.

No kidding, right? I mean, is that ballistic steel? lol

Looks awesome BTW. Loving this build :thumbsup:

[MotleyDrew]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02107.jpg[/QUOTE]

This thing is a beast...we drove 17 hours just to pick it up and come home. Rossler gave us T-Shirts though :)

[Turbo T/A]

Hopefully Ed can finish it in a "speedy" timeframe :D :D :D

-Carm

[coolwelder62]

Nothing sweeter than a brand new clean shop.Oh camaro looks awesome too.:thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

Finally got another big part today. My fuel safe fuel cell. Almost 45 gallons, with the aluminum can, two A1000 stealth pumps, custom collector etc etc.
I'll post more pics when 'Wicked Garage' gets it installed.
I think I need a bigger trunk!

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02172.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02174.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02173.jpg

[dave96dcm]

45 gallons! That's sweet! What kind of baffling does it have? That's almost 340 lbs of fuel. Can you buy the a1000 stealth pumps separate without one of their systems?

[speedjohnston]

The cell has a custom collector with 4 trap doors and one pick up from each pump inside wich are each -10. The whole cell also has the safety foam baffling in it.
The stealth pumps are an aeromotive unit available through any of there suppliers. Aeromotive makes sumps and whole tanks with these pumps as well. :cheers:

[dave96dcm]

Thanks for the info! I looked on their website and I didn't see it, maybe their site isn't current or I looked in the wrong place.

[coolwelder62]

This is just a real cool car.:thumbsup:

[WSSix]

I still love the paint job on this car. I would love to see it together before having all the paint stripped. Very cool car indeed!

[jjarky]

Sweet! That things gonna be a blast to drive.

[speedjohnston]

I still love the paint job on this car. I would love to see it together before having all the paint stripped. Very cool car indeed!

It will be together for a while with the old paint job first to get the bugs out. I still get lots of compliments on it, but it needs a few touch ups here and there.

[speedjohnston]

X2< no doubt in my mind...this this is just sick dude...you got it bad.lol

I got something bad... whatever it is don't get it. It causes lots of sleepless nights. :lol:

[onelapduster]

Holycrap, first time seeing this build and I am in shock. That cage is amazing!!!! The engine is amazing, the front wheels and awsome, the rear flares are friggin cool!! I too vote for the space heaters and keeping at it!!

[speedjohnston]

I have a few updates to share from the work being performed at Wicked Garage. The intercooler pipes are done. It may seem a little crazy but done this way for a purpose to be disclosed at a later date. ;)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02221.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02216.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02217.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02220.jpg

The tunnel is also modded to go around the 4l80.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02219.jpg

And the rad mounts are almost complete with just the caps to hold the top in place left.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02218.jpg

I should have some more pics over the next few weeks. Wicked Garage will be mounting the fuel cell shortly.

[tones2SS]

Good to see the updates on this car. She's going to be a beast!

[waynieZ]

Its looking good!

[MotleyDrew]

I have a few updates to share from the work being performed at Wicked Garage. The intercooler pipes are done. It may seem a little crazy but done this way for a purpose to be disclosed at a later date. ;).

Oh...me, me ,me ...I know, I know....;)

[speedjohnston]

The fuel cell has made its way into the car. All 45 gallons of it. These pics were taken by the installers, the good folks at Wicked Garage. There was no way to get it in except from the bottom.
If anyone wants a ride, they have to fill the tank. :lol:


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/6879430637_2e7164e367_o1.jpg

http://http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/6879435219_75cb5e60c6_o1.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/6879432677_fa327263b6_o1.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/6988969671_00dfff5ab0_o1.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/6842848758_c4f11b016a_o1.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/6842850390_e35aa91f93_o1.jpg

[speedjohnston]

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/05.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/04.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/02.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/01.jpg

[coolwelder62]

Vey Nice.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 45 gal's @ $4.00 a gal.:willy: :willy:

[speedjohnston]

So thats a yes? Who wants to fill it second? :lol:

[speedjohnston]

To remove all that fuel on the other end is the spintech 5" exhaust squashed into an oval for ground clearance. Then, split into quad 3 1/2" and a few more things to come to make it quiet :rolleyes: on the street, and a no loss system when the hammer comes down.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02236.jpg



http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/Camaro/DSC02237.jpg

[intocarss]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[syborg tt]

Car is looking Awesome

Got a question. How are you going to address the suspension set up? As that 45 gallon tank empty's the rear end of the car is going to get significantly lighter.

[speedjohnston]

The only time I should need to fill the car will be if I run silver state. Otherwise the car can be set up the same as if it had a 22 gallon tank. That being said, I will definately have some hurdles to climb over and some bugs to work out when the car is done.

[speedjohnston]

My rendering by Kris Horton. I liked it so much I gave it its own thread. :)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/SteveJohnston_Poster.jpg

[Track Junky]

Dont know how I missed this one. Always an innovating build from you :thumbsup:

[coolwelder62]

My rendering by Kris Horton. I liked it so much I gave it its own thread. :)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/SteveJohnston_Poster.jpgAWESOME, TOTALLY AWESOME.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Jtomas801]

Holy crap!!!! Bad A$$

Jon

[skatinjay27]

thats gonna look sooo amazing!

[speedjohnston]

Glad you like it guys, I was worried here is where I get battered. lol

[tones2SS]

Looks great Steve. Is there much left on your build?

[speedjohnston]

Its getting down there. I still need gears and brakes for the back, lots of plumbing and electrical, the hood and some paint. I may be able to get it running soon and some testing before the paint and hood part. I'll post some more updates soon. I'm just waiting for a few more things to get finished at Wicked Garage.

[Flash68]

That muffler situation looks sweet. Anxious to hear that thing when it roars.

My rendering by Kris Horton. I liked it so much I gave it its own thread. :)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/SteveJohnston_Poster.jpg

I'm glad you did. It is warranted! :thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Gorgeous! Love the stance, color, and everything.

[FETorino]

Its getting down there. I still need gears and brakes for the back, lots of plumbing and electrical, the hood and some paint. I may be able to get it running soon and some testing before the paint and hood part. I'll post some more updates soon. I'm just waiting for a few more things to get finished at Wicked Garage.

Congratulations on almost being there. 1200hp hmmm that will be a handful.:hail:

The car is awesome with a focus on function without sacrificing style. Very nicely done. :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

[Cris@JCG]

That rendering is wicked! Looking forward to seeing this car done...


My rendering by Kris Horton. I liked it so much I gave it its own thread. :)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/SteveJohnston_Poster.jpg

[GRob]

Love this car and that its relatively local to me (Toronto). Did you ever think about going with fuel injection? EFI BBC's are just awesome.

[Ricochet]

Wicked!! Nice color combo!

[onevoice]

Love the build, but damn that is a big fuel tank, Silver State is only 90 miles.

Back of the envelope calculation, and correct me anyone if I haven't had enough coffee this morning:

call it 800 hp required to go 200mph
estimate low on the BSFC = .3 lb fuel/hp-hr
means approximately 240 lb of fuel for an hour.
6 lbs per gallon = 40 gal for 1 hr @ 800hp
90 miles at 200mph = .375hr = 22.5 min
= approximately 15 gallons required to make 800 hp for 22.5 minutes.

Other way to look at it
NASCAR engines at 900hp get about 4-5 mpg at race speed, call it 190mph
So they would need about 22.5 gallons to go 90 miles at 4mpg.

I know you would rather have too much, than too little, but are my calculations off? Otherwise, I think that huge tank showing in the rear detracts from the look of the car. A 26-28 gallon tank would be much easier to hide.

[speedjohnston]

Love the build, but damn that is a big fuel tank, Silver State is only 90 miles.

Back of the envelope calculation, and correct me anyone if I haven't had enough coffee this morning:

call it 800 hp required to go 200mph
estimate low on the BSFC = .3 lb fuel/hp-hr
means approximately 240 lb of fuel for an hour.
6 lbs per gallon = 40 gal for 1 hr @ 800hp
90 miles at 200mph = .375hr = 22.5 min
= approximately 15 gallons required to make 800 hp for 22.5 minutes.

Other way to look at it
NASCAR engines at 900hp get about 4-5 mpg at race speed, call it 190mph
So they would need about 22.5 gallons to go 90 miles at 4mpg.

I know you would rather have too much, than too little, but are my calculations off? Otherwise, I think that huge tank showing in the rear detracts from the look of the car. A 26-28 gallon tank would be much easier to hide.

Well I would pick out several flaws in your calculations. First, your starting point of 800hp to go 200mph. That would be for a specific car, every car would require a different amount of power to maintain those kinds of speeds. Just as an example a corvette may require 800 but a mack truck because of its frontal area and drag coefficient is going to require a lot more. Also, as you add downforce you add drag (the wing, diffuser, splitter) which will eat more fuel.
A 72 camaro is not a NASCAR. I couldn't possibly slip through the wind like a NASCAR does. They run a small block with a restrictor plate usually limitting hp on faster tracks which would aid in there fuel not to mention they draft off each other. They also run on the edge of what they think the motor can handle for that race as far as fuel mixture goes. My fuel mixture will be a safe air fuel mix that will allow my motor to live a while.
Blowers motors use more fuel than naturally aspirated motors do. Every fuel pump thats rated in HP needs a bigger pump on the same hp blower car.
Big Red and Polly Motorsports cars that have run Big Blocks in silver state etc both have more than 45 gallon fuel tanks.
Thats just the start. I could run more wing angle, add more boost etc etc.
As for the detracting from the look, the car was never meant to be a beauty queen, although it should turn out ok in the end. :cheers:

[onevoice]

A corvette zr1 has 638 hp and will go a little over 200mph

Hot Rod magazine has run a 1980 camaro at land speed events, it has similar aerodynamics to yours with the exception of the wing. It went 246mph with a normally aspirated 572/720 GM big block crate motor, and 260 with a 150 shot of nitrous. It is admittedly a guess, but given the above knowns, even in your high drag configuration, you should reach 200 using only 800hp.

I picked 800hp because that seemed a conservative number for your car to reach 200. Your motor has been on the dyno, so you probably have the actual BSFC numbers for it. Those numbers will tell you how much fuel it uses at a particular HP number in 1 hour, ie BSFC units are lbs of fuel per hp-hr. Those numbers for just about any engine, NA, turbo or supercharged, are typically in the range of .3 to .5 .

It is therefore a relatively simple calculation to see how much fuel the engine will require over a known time period at a known HP output.

Fuel in gallons required = ((hp*BSFC)/(6lbs per gallon))*hours

I used .3 in the calculations by mistake, that would be on the lean side( I said I hadn't had enough coffee). Re-calculated using .5 the number would be approximately 25 gallons, which actually correlates much closer to the NASCAR numbers. There is certainly nothing wrong with carrying 45 gallons of gas in an unlimited class, it eliminates one more thing to worry about on race day. I was just trying to point out that if you needed extra room, you could squeeze some out of the tanks real estate.

The car looks great BTW. I am glad to see it being built with such a capable cage and attention to safety detail.

[speedjohnston]

I am aware of the ZR1's top speed and its HP. My example wasn't specific to it, just as a general comparison.
The camaro in Hot rod magazine that your speaking of has had extensive wind tunnel testing and has a drag coefficient around .21 if memory serves. His camaro was built specificly for land speed racing. It is no way close to my camaro or probably anybody elses of that vintage, and is even well under the drag of a new corvette. I have spoken with the owner on a couple occasions. A stock camaro of my vintage can be up to almost double the drag of keiths Camaro although it may not look it. Although mine is not stock, it is not close to Keiths either. My car is also not as aerodynamic as a NASCAR so neither is a viable comparison.
BSFC's are only taken usually on the dyno under wide open conditions and are often over .5 to the .6 range on High power big block blower and turbo cars.
That being said, I would rather be proven wrong and have fuel left than be right and run out 2/3 of the way. The 45 gallon stays. lol

[onevoice]

The H.R. camaro is more areodynamic than yours, but it has the same frontal area so the comparison is probably closer than you think. It so happens that this turns out to be an interesting comparison in another way. Because HP requirements change as the cube of velocity, and drag changes as the square, your numbers may actually prove something. The HR camaro does 246mph, with a .21Cd (your number). After going through the equations, it takes almost the exact same power to push your car to a slower 200mph with a Cd of double, ie .42, also your number.

Interesting huh? The actual numbers came out as
[email protected] = [email protected], given the same HP numbers

So, it stands to reason that your car will reach 200 with approximately the same HP as a 572GM crate engine. I think I remember tests putting it about 800 at the crank.

BSFC numbers are fuel flow, you can get pretty close using them.

[speedjohnston]

The H.R. camaro is more areodynamic than yours, but it has the same frontal area so the comparison is probably closer than you think. It so happens that this turns out to be an interesting comparison in another way. Because HP requirements change as the cube of velocity, and drag changes as the square, your numbers may actually prove something. The HR camaro does 246mph, with a .21Cd (your number). After going through the equations, it takes almost the exact same power to push your car to a slower 200mph with a Cd of double, ie .42, also your number.

Interesting huh? The actual numbers came out as
[email protected] = [email protected], given the same HP numbers

So, it stands to reason that your car will reach 200 with approximately the same HP as a 572GM crate engine. I think I remember tests putting it about 800 at the crank.

BSFC numbers are fuel flow, you can get pretty close using them.

I wasn't debating the approx HP to get to 200mph, just stating its a random # in your first post. Keiths camaro had 5 miles to get to that speed (going by memory again but I'm sure this was a salt flat #), I plan on hitting over 200 in less than a mile (and yes I know keith has done this as well). The comparison is still flawed because of rate of acceleration is using over 800hp. At every corner the acceleration can be more than 800 hp. I have allready done all these calculations in 100 different ways ages ago. All the formulas you are using have been pinned up in my garage for years I just wasn't going to redo my calculations based on this discussion, not knowing from the beginning I would have to prove myself. You must have a lot of time on your hands. lol
Probably a better discussion elsewhere, this is still a build thread. :cheers:
P.S. I know what BSFC numbers are and I'm still keeping the 45 gallon cell :morepower

[onevoice]

Sorry for the thread hijack, big square tanks hanging below rear pan are just a pet peeve of mine.

Back to the build. :thumbsup:

[speedjohnston]

My latest big part to arrive and keep me bottoms down. Scott Good at GoodAero has been one of the best people to deal with answering all my crazy questions and getting back to me right away even when I told him I wasn't purchasing for a while. I think I've been in touch with him since last year.
This is my first real carbon fibre part. Its almost ubelievable that the whole thing only weighs a little over 5lbs and can handle all that pressure. Keeping the wing level (front and back highest points) it will generate about 6-700lbs down on the back end, and less than 50lbs of drag. More obviously if it gets angled down at the front.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02252.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02256.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02257.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/DSC02260.jpg

[MotleyDrew]

I'm still keeping the 45 gallon cell :morepower

Yes ! 1200hp is not even pushing this motor setup. If the owner so chooses he can turn up the wick which will require a lot more fuel.

[sik68]

Love what you're doing with the aero, especially the hood extraction. (and now the engine plumbing makes sense too :thumbsup:) Looking forward to more!

[speedjohnston]

Another rendering to share. Please move over if you see this in your rear view mirror. :lol:

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/SteveJohnstonCamaroFrontView.jpg

[tones2SS]

Looks awesome Steve!

[Vegas69]

Awesome Steve! Only thing I would say is to shrink that front spoiler a little.

[syborg tt]

Love the rendring

the hood is my favorite part

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/SteveJohnstonCamaroFrontView.jpg

[FETorino]

I just feel like we need another build update.:thumbsup: I hope I get to see the finished product in person some day.

[speedjohnston]

Well its back from the fab shop this weekend and into my cramped little garage. It needs a good dusting and I'll have some new pics with some of the fab work done by the weekend but if anyone wants a peek I snapped a few as is.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/ADSC02275.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/ADSC02274.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/ADSC02279.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/ADSC02278.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w136/speedjohnston/ADSC02271.jpg

[tones2SS]

Very nice Steve. Looks clean and very mean.

[syborg tt]

Looks awesome

[FETorino]

Love it:thumbsup:

[FETorino]

Love it:thumbsup:

Now I miss it :( It's been over a month without an update. I need some more procharged 581 Camaro :cool:

[Vegas69]

Check PT.:unibrow:

[89 RS]

Badazz 2nd Gen. :thumbsup: