Wow, was this car really worth this??

[The T-man]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200417839796&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

man was this car worth more than $124K?:_paranoid
"reserve not met"

[Vegas69]

Nope...shill bidders. Nice car, but not 124k nice.

[Musclerodz]

Being a Scott Widby car, it is definitely a nice car. He has built a few head turners over the years. Is it worth more than $124K? For a 5 year old build, probably not.

[customcam]

Definately a nice car

[nvr2fst]

Agreed on nice car. Never seen Scott put out any crap in the past. The Hugger orange one he did a couple of years ago was pretty nice. As far as price? Not sure, It would definitely be a contender of sale at the 85-100 range. Heck there asking 500 for the Razor which I think is high. Seems pricing keeps going up and up.

[GregWeld]

I've been telling anyone that has asked me "what's this "X" worth"... it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay - and right now - I have ZERO idea what ANYTHING is worth.

I look at cars like this more in a "what would it cost me to build a car like that" -- and I couldn't build that car for 125K.... but I wouldn't pay 125K for a 5 year old build either... it's "dated" already. Still - it's probably nicer than any hot rod I own. :thumbsup:

$500K for Ring Brothers Camaro.... Ummmmmmmm nope.... 'Cause here's my thinking on that kind of a sale. It will NEVER be "MY" car - it will always be someones else's build... Personally.... I would have to paint it... and for 500K I want it MY WAY!! :rofl:

[ccracin]

I've been telling anyone that has asked me "what's this "X" worth"... it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay - and right now - I have ZERO idea what ANYTHING is worth.

I look at cars like this more in a "what would it cost me to build a car like that" -- and I couldn't build that car for 125K.... but I wouldn't pay 125K for a 5 year old build either... it's "dated" already. Still - it's probably nicer than any hot rod I own. :thumbsup:

$500K for Ring Brothers Camaro.... Ummmmmmmm nope.... 'Cause here's my thinking on that kind of a sale. It will NEVER be "MY" car - it will always be someones else's build... Personally.... I would have to paint it... and for 500K I want it MY WAY!! :rofl:

I agree completely Greg. The other thing I don't get is it is a 500K "Ring Brothers Camaro". These cars have owners, I want to know how these people spend this kind of money with Ring, Troy, Foose, etc. and rarely get credit for it being THEIR car. Sure die hard guys will know the owners names, but 95% don't. These cars are sometimes 1-2 years old before the owners even take possession. I don't get it, maybe someone can educate me. :( Man, you pay me 500K to build a car the way I want it, then I get to show it, drive the crap out of it, and get all kinds of publicity for my shop! How do I get one of these gigs?:(

[michael6372]

I've been telling anyone that has asked me "what's this "X" worth"... it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay - and right now - I have ZERO idea what ANYTHING is worth.

I look at cars like this more in a "what would it cost me to build a car like that" -- and I couldn't build that car for 125K.... but I wouldn't pay 125K for a 5 year old build either... it's "dated" already. Still - it's probably nicer than any hot rod I own. :thumbsup:

$500K for Ring Brothers Camaro.... Ummmmmmmm nope.... 'Cause here's my thinking on that kind of a sale. It will NEVER be "MY" car - it will always be someones else's build... Personally.... I would have to paint it... and for 500K I want it MY WAY!! :rofl:

I agree completely Greg. The other thing I don't get is it is a 500K "Ring Brothers Camaro". These cars have owners, I want to know how these people spend this kind of money with Ring, Troy, Foose, etc. and rarely get credit for it being THEIR car. Sure die hard guys will know the owners names, but 95% don't. These cars are sometimes 1-2 years old before the owners even take possession. I don't get it, maybe someone can educate me. :( Man, you pay me 500K to build a car the way I want it, then I get to show it, drive the crap out of it, and get all kinds of publicity for my shop! How do I get one of these gigs?:(


For me, you guys hit the nail on the head. First of all, I can't see paying 300-500k for a build, and then try to sell it before you even get a chance to enjoy it(and usually take a big loss). What's the sense in doing that?? Razor is a great car but like you said it's 500k for a car that's 2 years old and (if you're into showing a car) has won and got all the publicity it's going to get already. I like the cars that Whidby has built, I don't know if this one is worth the asking price(just don't know that much about the car). I just wonder how many people do builds that take 3-5 years and have to change the project during the build so it will stay with the current trends.

[pokey64]

The guy that owns the "Ring Brothers Reactor" lives about 15 mins away. He took it to our small town car show. There were maybe 50 cars. His wife has a pretty sweet 62 Impala as well. I would have to guess that those two cars alone cost more than the other 48 cars and 12 tractors at the show combined... I thought it was cool that they drove them to the show. I only know of the owners because they're local, otherwise I'd just refer to the cars by their builders.

[ironworks]

Nope...shill bidders. Nice car, but not 124k nice.

But with 66 bids somebody had to be bidding. Like was already said, it is only worth what 2 people are willing to pay. The stance, color, and interior color are pretty popular. I would not say this car is very dated for a 5 year old build. It is typical street rod styled Camaro. The muscle machine winner this year for Goodguys was a very similar Firebird, just not these colors but alot if similar parts.

I stopped at Scott's house 2 years ago on my way home from PRI, I stood in that exact garage in the pictures during our short cut through the backwoods of Georgia enroute to Alabama.

[Vegas69]

To be honest, I browsed the ad and didn't realize Scott built that car. It's a really nice car and I agree it's not that dated. It definitely fits that baby boomer mentality. Big block, street rod interior, etc. It could easily go 125k at barret jackson. Still a little pessimistic about ebay and big money.

[MarkM66]

I've been telling anyone that has asked me "what's this "X" worth"... it's only worth what someone else is willing to pay - and right now - I have ZERO idea what ANYTHING is worth.

I look at cars like this more in a "what would it cost me to build a car like that" -- and I couldn't build that car for 125K.... but I wouldn't pay 125K for a 5 year old build either... it's "dated" already. Still - it's probably nicer than any hot rod I own. :thumbsup:

$500K for Ring Brothers Camaro.... Ummmmmmmm nope.... 'Cause here's my thinking on that kind of a sale. It will NEVER be "MY" car - it will always be someones else's build... Personally.... I would have to paint it... and for 500K I want it MY WAY!! :rofl:

I don't believe this car is a 5 year old build. He's referencing another car.

It's a nice car, and the more it brings the better IMO. These damn things take alot of money to build.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I was with Scott a few weeks ago at Turkey Run, car is fresh and nice. Interior is awesome. I think the car is easily worth the money but think he just hurt it bad putting it on E bay and not hitting the mark. It needs to do closer to $150 for him, and if he sent it to Barrett, he would get it. Cars that were not half this car brought almost as much as this bid.

While is this not as car that will impress the Lateral G Crowd in component choices stock subframe, carb big block, huge tires wheel package, the car has serious eyes to a broader range of the market. This one is perfect for the Barrett crowd, A Camaro, popular color combo, not overly personalized or themed, I think he missed a huge chance (and most likely his only chance) of breaking the bank. My buddy Anthony offered up a killer prime time number. I would have sent it in a second. If I built something for Barrett, this would be pretty damn close to what I would build.

As for shill bidding, I would not be surprised if the bidding was real, this is a car that would cost $250 to build in many shops. Maybe he gets lucky and his $125K is real, I bet if they split it they would both be smiling.

[RECOVERY ROOM]

I was with Scott a few weeks ago at Turkey Run, car is fresh and nice. Interior is awesome. I think the car is easily worth the money but think he just hurt it bad putting it on E bay and not hitting the mark. It needs to do closer to $150 for him, and if he sent it to Barrett, he would get it. Cars that were not half this car brought almost as much as this bid.

While is this not as car that will impress the Lateral G Crowd in component choices stock subframe, carb big block, huge tires wheel package, the car has serious eyes to a broader range of the market. This one is perfect for the Barrett crowd, A Camaro, popular color combo, not overly personalized or themed, I think he missed a huge chance (and most likely his only chance) of breaking the bank. My buddy Anthony offered up a killer prime time number. I would have sent it in a second. If I built something for Barrett, this would be pretty damn close to what I would build.

As for shill bidding, I would not be surprised if the bidding was real, this is a car that would cost $250 to build in many shops. Maybe he gets lucky and his $125K is real, I bet if they split it they would both be smiling.

X2..You are right Frank,Alot of the cars we work on are like this car.You could not build it for 125,000

[chr2002ca]

What the car is worth and what it fetches on Ebay are 2 different things because there's just too much bid rigging and collusion on big ticket items. Like Todd mentioned, I just don't have a positive attitude about what I see on Ebay anymore. Just because there are 66 bids doesn't mean much. That could just mean that someone or a group was smarter with their collusion efforts. These high-end builds haven't been fetching much at all recently on Ebay(80K range), so to see this one go all the way to 125K is rare nowadays. Not saying it's not possible or 'dishonest', it's just rare. Maybe 2 or more folks truly did get in a bidding war and really wanted the car. If so, that's nice to see and hopefully starts a new trend for all the great builders out there.

The car is stunning. I hope he gets a solid price for such a great build.

[ProdigyCustoms]

E bay is the wrong place for high end cars. I am 100% convinced the market is Barrett Jackson or private. I think if it does not sell on E bay, it is dead right where it ended. That is why I only run no reserve if I use ebay. If I am worried about what it will bring, I do not list it.

[Flash68]

Agreed on ebay and BJ. This looks like the ideal BJ car for that crowd.

And 66 bids means nothing... look at the bid history (private identities, of course)... it could very well and most likely was 2 or 3 "friends" bidding it up... so easy to do they just ask for it.

[Vegas69]

I still think Ebay is good advertising. You just need to put up a high number and say a 30 day listing.

[70rs]

I am a total newb with ebay. In fact I have NEVER bought or sold anything on ebay. I don't understand the private identity and shill bidding or how any of it works. I was under the impression if there was 66 bids then there was 66 real bids. And real people making those bids. Can anyone help me get a clue here?

I do like the car mentioned. Not what I would build for myself, but still a very nice and well done car. I hope they get a decent number out of it somehow.
:cheers:

[MarkM66]

E bay is the wrong place for high end cars. I am 100% convinced the market is Barrett Jackson or private. I think if it does not sell on E bay, it is dead right where it ended. That is why I only run no reserve if I use ebay. If I am worried about what it will bring, I do not list it.

But "private" where? You've got to get it out there somehow.

I don't think a final ebay bid has anything to do with what a car can bring.

[chr2002ca]

In the past, on Ebay, you could at least see the actual Ebay account names of the people bidding on public auctions by clicking on the 'Current Bids' link for that auction. You could then click on the bidders' account names and see their bidding history, feedback, etc, and that helped a lot in determining the validity of the other bids in the auction. You could even send a private message to another bidder in the auction. A seller could only hide bidder names in their auction if they specifically set the auction to 'private', and when they did that, it was a possible sign something fishy might be going on. However, now, all auctions are private. I believe they did this for privacy reasons which is understandable, but it really makes it easier for a seller to use other accounts or have his friends bid up an auction and nobody could ever tell. There have been times when I have wanted to tell a bidder on an auction that the car they just bid $8K for is actually listed on CraigsList by the same seller for $6K, just as a way to possibly save that poor sap some money, but you can't do that anymore. So there's been some functionality and important information lost due to privacy. You just have to be honest with yourself and what you're willing to pay and not care what other people are bidding because you don't know where those other bids are coming from. Bid what you think is an accurate price and if you don't win then it just wasn't meant to be. You never know, the auction might be relisted, or the seller may come back to you with a 'second chance' opportunity or something.

[70rs]

In the past, on Ebay, you could at least see the actual Ebay account names of the people bidding on public auctions by clicking on the 'Current Bids' link for that auction. You could then click on the bidders' account names and see their bidding history, feedback, etc, and that helped a lot in determining the validity of the other bids in the auction. You could even send a private message to another bidder in the auction. A seller could only hide bidder names in their auction if they specifically set the auction to 'private', and when they did that, it was a possible sign something fishy might be going on. However, now, all auctions are private. I believe they did this for privacy reasons which is understandable, but it really makes it easier for a seller to use other accounts or have his friends bid up an auction and nobody could ever tell. There have been times when I have wanted to tell a bidder on an auction that the car they just bid $8K for is actually listed on CraigsList by the same seller for $6K, just as a way to possibly save that poor sap some money, but you can't do that anymore. So there's been some functionality and important information lost due to privacy. You just have to be honest with yourself and what you're willing to pay and not care what other people are bidding because you don't know where those other bids are coming from. Bid what you think is an accurate price and if you don't win then it just wasn't meant to be. You never know, the auction might be relisted, or the seller may come back to you with a 'second chance' opportunity or something.


Thanks for the insight Chris. I had no idea it worked like that. I think your advice is good. Bid what you are willing to pay, or what you think is fair. If you get it great, if not then maybe next time.
Thanks again Chris!:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Remember the number one PROBLEM with an AUCTION -- it takes TWO or more people wanting what you have to sell - and they both/all are willing to bid to at least what you're wanting to sell for...So even at an auction like BJ... it takes two people minimum to raise the price. Without people bidding against each other - the price won't rise.

So here's the deal - you want 100K for your car - I'm willing to pay 100K maybe even 105K... I bid 50K and nobody bids against me - I get to buy the car (in a no reserve auction) even though I was quite willing to pay more...

So... since many sellers at auctions KNOW this... they'll have their buddies bid against you, bumping the bid up... Or perhaps the auctioneer knows what you "need" for the car - and they'll call out "phantom" bids - so essentially the auction house is acting as the "other bidder" against you.

Not knowing how this works - is why "newbs" get killed at auctions... and end up selling their pride and joy for way less than they wanted. A very expensive learning experience! LOL

eBay used to be a great way to gauge the value of something... lots of people - lots of exposure to the "market"... but I think so many people have been burned buying POS cars - and there are now so many "dealers" selling - that this no longer sets the market price... Of course, like anything - that is not 100% always the case.. there are millions of items bought and sold on eBay daily.. BJ used to be a "feeding frenzy" orgy on cars... I think that has cooled significantly and we will see more "normalized" prices this year - but then again - that's only my gut feeling.

[70rs]

It will be really interesting to see what happens at BJ this year. I really think the numbers matching restored cars are going to be outdone by the "resto mod" type of car. Including PT cars. It seems to me that people are wanting cars they can use rather than just look at. And having classic looks with modern performance where I see it going in favor of the untouchable restored cars. Just a guess, I really don't know Jack sh**. But I do know his brother.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, I have sold cars on E Bay for years, and NEVER have I had one die, come up short, and then have someone call and buy because they saw it there. I do not know of one single car that has been on E bay that brought more later, or sold because someone saw it. What i have had happen many times is someone sees that it died on E bay and then they remind me I must be off on my value because it didn't sell. I have even had people that seen the car other places then E bay, watched it die on E bay, and want to know if I sobered up yet!

As for advertising, I get more stupid fricken phone call from guys with $50K wanting to build a $150K car from my E bay adds.

E bay sucks for high end cars. Now $35K to $60K cars, perfect place!

[HRBS]

I get more stupid fricken phone call from guys with $50K wanting to build a $150K car

I am glad I am not the only one. :lol:
I agree with Franks earlier comment.
The car is very nicely built by a reputable builder and can not be duplicated for the $125k stalled bid. Scott puts out very nice pieces.
With that said, all of you need to re-read the desciption.
This is NOT a 5 year old build. It states "This car is built and presented by Scott Whidby the Year One Cup Winner of 2005 and Top Five for Good Guy’s Street Machine of the year of 2005, with previous Camaro’s he has built."
This car is FRESHLY built. Maybe thats worth something, maybe not.
IMO its a great car for that price.

[MarkM66]

With that said, all of you need to re-read the desciption.
This is NOT a 5 year old build. It states "This car is built and presented by Scott Whidby the Year One Cup Winner of 2005 and Top Five for Good Guy’s Street Machine of the year of 2005, with previous Camaro’s he has built."
This car is FRESHLY built. Maybe thats worth something, maybe not.
IMO its a great car for that price.

I don't. I already pointed that out. ;) :D

[HRBS]

shoot... i was speed reading thru the thread.... LOL. Sorry.
Anyway... there is a great link to build pics that show the attention to detail in the Ebay ad.
I always tell people who call me wanting (to quote frank) a $150k car for $50k that a turnkey build yields $50k to $60k+ in parts alone. And with that I havent even turned a wrench yet. :willy:

[Novelli]

This is a topic that always gets interesting. I used to see cars for big money like that and think the people were crazy.........that was when I built cars out of my garage on the side. Now that I own a shop that I pay a lease on, insurance, EPA regs, and have tons of money tied up in tools, spray booths, metal fab equipment that is needed to do the type of work we do I realize how the price of a legit shop built car from the ground up can add up. My shop rate is $75 dollars an hour, 1000-2000 hours into a ground up build is nothing. So do the math on just the labor cost. Now add parts and 15k interior to that and the bill gets up there. Can it be done for less.......yes, It just depends on what you want in the finished product. There is no magic way to do it, you get what you pay for.

[MarkM66]

This is a topic that always gets interesting. I used to see cars for big money like that and think the people were crazy.........that was when I built cars out of my garage on the side. Now that I own a shop that I pay a lease on, insurance, EPA regs, and have tons of money tied up in tools, spray booths, metal fab equipment that is needed to do the type of work we do I realize how the price of a legit shop built car from the ground up can add up. My shop rate is $75 dollars an hour, 1000-2000 hours into a ground up build is nothing. So do the math on just the labor cost. Now add parts and 15k interior to that and the bill gets up there. Can it be done for less.......yes, It just depends on what you want in the finished product. There is no magic way to do it, you get what you pay for.

I saw the '67 on ebay a few weeks back. Did it sell?

[96z28ss]

Well, I have sold cars on E Bay for years, and NEVER have I had one die, come up short, and then have someone call and buy because they saw it there. I do not know of one single car that has been on E bay that brought more later, or sold because someone saw it. What i have had happen many times is someone sees that it died on E bay and then they remind me I must be off on my value because it didn't sell. I have even had people that seen the car other places then E bay, watched it die on E bay, and want to know if I sobered up yet!

As for advertising, I get more stupid fricken phone call from guys with $50K wanting to build a $150K car from my E bay adds.

E bay sucks for high end cars. Now $35K to $60K cars, perfect place!

Didn't IImuch fail on ebay and sold for more at BJ. Even sold for more at BJ then what it was advertised for on mulitple web sites.

I think Greg said it best. You need 2 people that want it at an auction, Ebay or BJ.

[Vegas69]

Busted Frank....:D

[Novelli]

I saw the '67 on ebay a few weeks back. Did it sell?

Nope....He was asking a pretty penny for it!

[GregWeld]

The other thing I think we all kind of "forget about" when selling - or buying.

If the prices are lower "in general" for cars... and you're seeing lots of pretty damn nice cars that have asking prices FAR lower than they might have asked 2 years ago... but if you can sell your 150K car for "only" 100K now - but you can BUY the car you wanted to upgrade to for a lot less... then everything is good! Like houses - yeah - you can't get what the thing was worth at the peak - but you know what - you're not buying your new place at the peak either - so it's a wash in my opinion.

THANKS FOR POINTING OUT THE CAMARO ISN'T FIVE YEARS OLD -- I didn't see that detail either - my bad!

The point I was trying to make on the PRO BUILT uber high dollar cars -- Ring - Trepanier - et al - is that when I spend half a million bucks on a car - I want it to be MY CAR - not someone else's car - and I want the glory and the trophies that come with a build like that... I was not saying that they shouldn't cost that much - or that they should be built cheaper... In fact if we didn't have cars like that - we'd have nothing to shoot for and nothing to dream about. I was just sayin' that if I spent that kind of dough on a car - or anything else for that matter - I want it to be MY WAY... I want it the color I want - the interior I want - the wheels I want - and I want the FUN that goes with dreamin' and schemin' with the builder etc.

[ccracin]

The point I was trying to make on the PRO BUILT uber high dollar cars -- Ring - Trepanier - et al - is that when I spend half a million bucks on a car - I want it to be MY CAR - not someone else's car - and I want the glory and the trophies that come with a build like that... I was not saying that they shouldn't cost that much - or that they should be built cheaper... In fact if we didn't have cars like that - we'd have nothing to shoot for and nothing to dream about. I was just sayin' that if I spent that kind of dough on a car - or anything else for that matter - I want it to be MY WAY... I want it the color I want - the interior I want - the wheels I want - and I want the FUN that goes with dreamin' and schemin' with the builder etc.

Here Here! :thumbsup: