NEW RideTech Modular Front Sway Bar

[darren@ridetech]

Rodney just finished development on the new MuscleBar sway bar for the front of the 78-88 GM "G" Bodies (Monte Carlo, Cutlass, Malibu, Regal, GN). This bar uses a modular design similar to out Imapla, Chevelle, and Camaro Musclebar. It also utilizes the PosiLink enlinks to eliminate freeplay associated with conventional poly bushing endlinks.

http://www.ridetech.com/shop/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=6477

[JRouche]

Rodney just finished development on the new MuscleBar sway bar for the front of the 78-88 GM "G" Bodies (Monte Carlo, Cutlass, Malibu, Regal, GN). This bar uses a modular design similar to out Imapla, Chevelle, and Camaro Musclebar. It also utilizes the PosiLink enlinks to eliminate freeplay associated with conventional poly bushing endlinks.

http://www.ridetech.com/shop/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=6477

Nice looking bar.. Is it a splined bar? Cant tell how the arms clamp the bar. Arms look pretty beefy. Should fit the need. And the price looks good too. I like to see you guys always looking for new ideas. JR

[G/A-body]

I was just at the RideTech website last week wishing they made a sway bar for the G-body. I realize there is probably a lot more R&D into it. Are there many advantages over the "traditional" designs? If so I think it might make a great addition to my project.

Robert
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/garage.php?do=user_garage_view&id=3628

[darren@ridetech]

Similar design to a splined bar, but the arms are bolting to a flange that is welded to the tube.

R&D is perpetual on all of our products. But at this point we are going to use the same 1.5" .188 wall tubing that we are using on the A Bodies. Should have some production stuff within a few weeks.

[JRouche]

Similar design to a splined bar, but the arms are bolting to a flange that is welded to the tube.

Ahhh, got it now. I cant see the welded flange from the outside pics. I gotta ask.. Why not go with splined bars and arms? Is it to keep any difficulties out of the picture for the customers mounting it up? Makes sense, its a purpose built unit for a certain car. No need for splined bars.

Welded flanges? Hmmm. Spring steel bar, alloy flanges too right? Not second guessing the designers, just curious... JR

[skatinjay27]

Ahhh, got it now. I cant see the welded flange from the outside pics. I gotta ask.. Why not go with splined bars and arms? Is it to keep any difficulties out of the picture for the customers mounting it up? Makes sense, its a purpose built unit for a certain car. No need for splined bars.

Welded flanges? Hmmm. Spring steel bar, alloy flanges too right? Not second guessing the designers, just curious... JRheres what brett said when tyler asked about the flange design.
The arms bolt to the flanges that are welded to the mild steel DOM main bar. The reason there are 3 bolts instead of 4 is simply tire clearance. I am running a 245/40-18 tire on a 18 x 8 rim. The tire just kisses the subframe at full lock under severe cornering...just enough to wear off the paint. Sitting still there is no contact at all.
I was concerned a bit about the strength of the flange connection but after running this setup in Velocity since May for over 6000 miles I am comfortable with the flange design. The splined connection is great, except I have a plasma cutter and I don't have a broach, hence the flanged connection!
The hollow bar has a wall thickness is .134". The bar is not rate adjustable, although that is not a bad idea. It is also not heat treated. While common wisdom says you gotta have a heat treated bar, I've been running a mild steeel DOM bar on my C10 truckfor over 2 years. I take it off every 4-5 months to see if it has taken a set or twisted in some way, but its still good. So is the one on Velocity.
The main bar is contoured like the original and will clear an LS1 in a stock subframe. I am confident that it will clear normal SBC and BBC applications as well, but I have not personally tried them.

[JRouche]

Oh wow!!! Ok.. Never heard of using mild steel for a sway bar. New to me. My opinion? Not a good idea.

A sway bar is a spring. A torsion bar. It sees alot of loading and unloading. And a properly designed sway bar ( I dont like to call them that, I like to call them roll bars but it can get confused) will be loose and get very tight. Spring steel can handle that.

Mild steel doesnt have the flex thats needed for a roll bar. Mild steel will resist the twisting but at a different rate. And the rate will change over time, it will get softer.

We use alloy steel for springs for a few reasons. One is the ability to hold its shape through constant motions. And the other is durability.

Anyone can take a piece of mild steel wire and see the diff. Bend a piece of mild steel wire. It will succumb to the bending and stay in the as bent shape. You can bend it back and forth a few times. Then it breaks.

But thats one of the high qualities of mild steel. It is malleable. More so than alloy (spring) steel.

So you can get away with making a part from mild steel when it should be made from alloy. But it wont live up to the needs of the alloy, and will fail IF the conditions are correct.

You would NEVER make a suspension spring with mild steel, for that matter, any spring. Why start with a roll bar..

And a roll bar, sway bar or whatever you want to call it is a spring.

I would never buy a sway bar that is made from mild steel. And anyone trying to sell one should go back to the engineering department to find out why they are trying to sell it. Stinks of money issues.. JR

heres what brett said when tyler asked about the flange design.
The arms bolt to the flanges that are welded to the mild steel DOM main bar. The reason there are 3 bolts instead of 4 is simply tire clearance. I am running a 245/40-18 tire on a 18 x 8 rim. The tire just kisses the subframe at full lock under severe cornering...just enough to wear off the paint. Sitting still there is no contact at all.
I was concerned a bit about the strength of the flange connection but after running this setup in Velocity since May for over 6000 miles I am comfortable with the flange design. The splined connection is great, except I have a plasma cutter and I don't have a broach, hence the flanged connection!
The hollow bar has a wall thickness is .134". The bar is not rate adjustable, although that is not a bad idea. It is also not heat treated. While common wisdom says you gotta have a heat treated bar, I've been running a mild steeel DOM bar on my C10 truckfor over 2 years. I take it off every 4-5 months to see if it has taken a set or twisted in some way, but its still good. So is the one on Velocity.
The main bar is contoured like the original and will clear an LS1 in a stock subframe. I am confident that it will clear normal SBC and BBC applications as well, but I have not personally tried them.

[pro-tour79]

JR, sway bars, anti roll bars, stay bars, most are made from high carbon steel that is an industry standard, as long as the bar is not subjected to more than 30* of deflection, auto manufacturers are even using it on trucks but this is where the trouble can start, high amounts of suspension travel causes the steel to be bent past it's yield strength causing work hardened spots and eventual failure, this is where alloys are superior, hollow sway bars should always be made of alloy materials because without the support in the center the hollow tube is deformed past it's yield strength more quickly (the tube collapses on itself) even with less suspension travel.

[JRouche]

JR, sway bars, anti roll bars, stay bars, most are made from high carbon steel that is an industry standard, as long as the bar is not subjected to more than 30* of deflection, auto manufacturers are even using it on trucks but this is where the trouble can start, high amounts of suspension travel causes the steel to be bent past it's yield strength causing work hardened spots and eventual failure, this is where alloys are superior, hollow sway bars should always be made of alloy materials because without the support in the center the hollow tube is deformed past it's yield strength more quickly (the tube collapses on itself) even with less suspension travel.

I get the use of high carbon steel for roll bars, its heat treatable. You can make a spring from it. But mild steel which has a carbon content of between .16-.25 % of the total mix should not be used for a roll bar.. There is not enough carbon in mild steel to do any heat treating so you cant make a spring out of it.

So when I saw this (below) I was having some issues. Might be a mis-speak, I do it all the time. But you cant make a roll bar (sway bar, anti-roll bar) from mild steel. I dont think anyone does. And if they do they arent making a roll bar. They are just putting a common steel bar in an application that it doesnt belong. I just think it should be clarified so a guy doesnt think he can get some mild steel bar or tube and make up a roll bar. It will bend and break. JR

Originally Posted by skatinjay27 View Post
heres what brett said when tyler asked about the flange design.
The arms bolt to the flanges that are welded to the mild steel DOM main bar.

[pro-tour79]

As I mentioned yes high carbon steel is widly used for sway bars as long as it is not flexed past it flex limit about 30*, all sway bar manufacturers use it for cost reasons it does not need to be heat treated, alloy bars are hot formed or forged but need to be heat treated this is why the cost is often double or more.

[JRouche]

As I mentioned yes high carbon steel is widly used for sway bars as long as it is not flexed past it flex limit about 30*, all sway bar manufacturers use it for cost reasons it does not need to be heat treated, alloy bars are hot formed or forged but need to be heat treated this is why the cost is often double or more.

Not trying to sound nit-picky :) But high carbon steel doesnt get much benefit of its "spring" qualities unless its heat treated. In its annealed state it does not make a very good roll bar. Might as well use mild steel or low carbon steel. JR

[pro-tour79]

Sorry JR but your not taking into acount anything I've said, I understand the class room/lab part, no low carbon steel would not be as well as high carbon steel, 1018 has a yield strength of 54,000, 1045 has 77,000 thats over 40% greater, 4140 starts at about 55,000 in it's annealed workable form, only after it has bean heat treated can it be made better than 1045 and this can vary ALOT!
So the point is here don't jump to conclutions based on what material is used and process, even a heat treated alloy sway bar can be weaker than a high carbon steel one, follow the money!

High carbon steel bars are most often manufactured in cold process as to avoid having to anneal and heat treat I keep saying it's a cost vs application issue.
If you actually want a sway bar that is better than a high carbon steel you need to buy an American made sway bar such as Hellwig not some off shore with no or false data specs.

Merry Christmas :)

[JRouche]

Sorry JR but your not taking into acount anything I've said, I understand the class room/lab part, no low carbon steel would not be as well as high carbon steel, 1018 has a yield strength of 54,000, 1045 has 77,000 thats over 40% greater, 4140 starts at about 55,000 in it's annealed workable form, only after it has bean heat treated can it be made better than 1045 and this can vary ALOT!
So the point is here don't jump to conclutions based on what material is used and process, even a heat treated alloy sway bar can be weaker than a high carbon steel one, follow the money!

High carbon steel bars are most often manufactured in cold process as to avoid having to anneal and heat treat I keep saying it's a cost vs application issue.
If you actually want a sway bar that is better than a high carbon steel you need to buy an American made sway bar such as Hellwig not some off shore with no or false data specs.

Merry Christmas :)

No, no, no :) I am agreeing with you. Prolly doesnt sound like it but I am in agreement with all that you have said for the most part. I didnt mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you. Just trying to add to the discussion.

My only issue with the entire topic was the use of low carbon steel (1018) for a roll bar. All the rest is up for interesting discussion. Im happy to read the hows and whys of just about anything. You have some great points there..

And yes!! Merry Christmas!! I got some new socks.. Wife didnt know they were attached to some wilwood brakes but hey!!! Its all good.. JR

[pro-tour79]

No problem JR, I'm just a bit puzzled because the type of steel used was not mentioned

[nowukno]

Thats also what I was looking for..Im really interested in this bar..