What kind of heim joints for 4-Link

[DutchSS]

Hi guys, I am planning on bilding a home made 4 link on my 69 camaro.
What kind of heim joints do you recommend ? I see a lot of junk on the web, what is the minimal load capacity I should use ?
I am bilding a 600+ HP street, strip / track car.
Thanks

[GregWeld]

Dutch --

Contact ART MORRISON ENTERPRISES - Fife, Washington. 1-800-929-7188

They sell these types of ends - and could tell you what ends you'll need for which parts of your suspension.

[Bryce]

I plan on using AFCO chromoly rod ends. What loads are in you links? Are the links design to be in only compression tension, no bending? If so you can look up the specs on the rod ends. Look to see if the radial loading is within your requirements.

Aurora makes the best in my opinion.

Good deals can be found here. I have not checked their quality.
http://www.midwestcontrol.com/

[The WidowMaker]

currie and spohn make some good ones. if you want a traditional heim with no urethane, then nothing beats the qa1 xm series. moly constuction, teflon lined. its what the rock crawler guys use. id look into the currie johnny joint though.

[JRouche]

Pretty much the best ones are gonna be the QA1 X series. They are XM for the males and XF for the females.

The 5x8"x5/8" are the standard. Many companies sell QA1 ends unlabeled, for more money, but they are the same parts. I have 16 of them on my car right now.

I just put a set of 8 of them on my 4-link car this weekend. I also used some seals-it caps.

The ends are 20 bucks a piece. Caps are a buck or two each and you need 16.

But there isnt a stronger rod end than the QA1. JR

[mfain]

I use Aurora High Perfromance PRM/PRB series rod ends. They have a 4340 steel body, Stainless Steel race, 52100 heat treated ball, and a bonded PTFE lining. They are very tight and operate smoothly, and I think they are among the strongest available on the market -- just a little pricy ($60-$70 each), but you get what you pay for.

[Fluid Power]

Aurora or FK are top notch. Aurora is mil spec'd, vs. FK is built to mil spec but not tested/certified for military. A huge majority of the NASCAR/IRL/Off Road guys run FK.

Darren

[Bryce]

I may be wrong, but did QA1 used to be made offshore or still are?

[JRouche]

The QA1 rod ends are exactly like the Aurora. Same material, same specs, everything. Cept they are 20 bucks each. Even crazier, they are called the same thing. The XM series. Almost like they were made by the same company. Oh, the QA1 end is rated at 17,955 Lbs and the Aurora end is 16,565 Lbs. But Im sure that is just marketing issues LOL JR

And I didnt even notice till now. They both use Thomasnet for their online catalog. Looking more and more like they are connected somehow...

Aurora rod end

http://tinyurl.com/yjwekt9

QA1 rod end

http://tinyurl.com/ycy4ojv

[The WidowMaker]

id still run a jj or spohn joint. no reason to add even more nvh.

[Marcus SC&C]

QA1 (and many others) are ChiCom manufacture,for those who care. YMMV but in my book heims = open header race car. If you want long term durability and quiet trouble free operation you want Currie Johnny Joints or equivalent. They`re rediculously strong, have great NVH isolation with minimum deflection and are grease able. I`ve been running some of them in hard core offroad use for years and they`re still 100%. Heims we had to change every couple years. Same on clients street cars, some of them come in every few years for heim replacement because the owner can`t stand the buzzing anymore. The ones we`ve converted to Johnny Joints are still perfect. Spohn Delspheres are another option, the thinner delrin races transfer quite a bit more NVH than the Curries and they`re only available in one size currently but they`re inexpensive and they should last a good long time. Mark SC&C

[parsonsj]

What Marcus said. My QA1s wore out, and I replaced them with Spohn Delspheres. Nice parts, and I have a couple of extras (never used) if somebody wants them. Left hand thread versions.

jp

[mfain]

Just to get things back to an apples-to-apples comparison: An earlier post pointed out the similarity between QA1 and Aurora XM bearings. The QA1 XM is a 2-piece bearing with an injection molded Kevlar reinforced nylon race (5/8 inch size is 17,955 lb-rated). The Aurora XM, one of their cheapest, lightest duty rod ends, is a plain, carbon steel-bodied unit with an alloy steel race (16,565 lb rated). The Aurora XAM (next step up with an alloy steel body) is rated at 40,572 lbs. If you have ever broken a rod end on a suspension link under load, then you know how important quality parts can be. There are several good bearing manufacturers out there and most of them sell various grades of their product. You get what you pay for, and suspension parts are not good areas to try to save a few bucks, especially if you are going to really "use" the car. My 2 cents worth.

[The WidowMaker]

what safety factor are they using in their advertisement? that alone makes a huge difference.

i'll say it again, jj or spohn unless its a phb, watts or sway bar link.


edit------

acutally i found it. here it is from aurora's site;

"Is there a safety factor included in the ultimate radial static load capacity?
You should assume that there is no safety factor. The bearing will fail at the advertised load."

and from qa1;

"Note that QA1's cataloged radial load ratings include a safety factor"

both then go on to say that adding a zerk will lower that rating. so, even if the qa1 is a 2:1 which isnt that conservative, then they are about the same.

[JRouche]

Just to get things back to an apples-to-apples comparison: An earlier post pointed out the similarity between QA1 and Aurora XM bearings. The QA1 XM is a 2-piece bearing with an injection molded Kevlar reinforced nylon race (5/8 inch size is 17,955 lb-rated). The Aurora XM, one of their cheapest, lightest duty rod ends, is a plain, carbon steel-bodied unit with an alloy steel race (16,565 lb rated). The Aurora XAM (next step up with an alloy steel body) is rated at 40,572 lbs.

Well Ill be damm, you are correct. I stand corrected. I was wrong. I was making an assumption and overlooked the body material. Kinda funny how the aurora steel body end is just about as strong as the QA1 alloy body end.

And YES, a johnny joint would be the route to go if funds are there. I completely agree with that.

Thanks for the schoolin. Im always happy to learn from you guys!!!!! JR

[The WidowMaker]

JR, you missed my edit. look at the post above yours. there is more to the story than just the posted numbers!

[DutchSS]

Thanks to all you guys :thumbsup: I got a lot info and I googled my ash off the last days.
I am thinking of using the Midwest 3/4-16 Chrome moly with teflon. They are rated at 27000 lbs static. I can buy them in the UK that saves me a lot on shipping and import tax. What do you guys think ?
http://www.midwestcontrol.com/catdisplay_short.php?pg=214

[MtotheIKEo]

For what it's worth I've heard mixed things about Midwest Controls rod ends. This is an item that really follows the "you get what you pay for" saying.

[DutchSS]

Okay that is something to reconsider than thanks.

[JRouche]

JR, you missed my edit. look at the post above yours. there is more to the story than just the posted numbers!

Ahh, yer right, I did miss your edit.. Good point.

So Im I correct in interpreting it to mean QA1 actually designed in a safety factor and adjusted the Ult. Radial Static Load Capacity rating to a lower number for the sake of a safety margin where Aurora basically says their Ultimate Radial Static Load Capacity rating is the final line. They anticipate a breakage after that point?

That makes sense. Why the mild steel housing of the aurora end compares very closely to the alloy housing of the qa1 end in ratings in their catalog.

You miss that info if you just go by their online catalog specs. So the qa1 X series would prolly be a better comparison to the aurora XA series.

Good eye buddy!!! JR

[WSSix]

How timely this post is. I was wondering around dreaming about what I want to do with my TA when I have time. I'm poor right now and the cost of the DSE Qlink is hard for me to envision I would accept. So I was thinking I'd just build my own 4 link when the time comes. Only problem I was having was is the swivel link rods found in the Qlink that good? If not what rod ends would I use, rod or JJ? Now I know. I still wonder if the Qlink is really that good or can you still do great without the swivel links?

Thanks for the education guys

[The WidowMaker]

ballistic fab just replaced their lower qa1 line with the midwest control stuff. if it was for sway bar end links its one thing, but for critical suspension points i wouldnt want to be the guinea pig.

i used jj's for mine after listening to mark explain why they were so much better. if you saw one you would understand why they are so damn strong.

[mfain]

Here is some technical information from the QA1 site that you might find useful. The first link describes how a rod end's ultimate static load is computed -- it is the lowest of three areas: race material compression strength, rod end head strength, or shank strength. The second link provides a cross-reference of various QA1 rod ends to other manufacturers (Aurora, Spherco, etc) which might be useful when comparing prices.

http://www.qa1.net/qa1_industrial/radial_load_ratings.pdf
http://www.qa1.net/qa1_industrial/part_interchange.html

I have attached a shot of my garage-built 4-link for an independant suspension. It uses a C-4 Corvette upright with Woodward swedged tubes and Aurora rod ends (3/4 in.).

[Teetoe_Jones]

I have attached a shot of my garage-built 4-link for an independant suspension. It uses a C-4 Corvette upright with Woodward swedged tubes and Aurora rod ends (3/4 in.).

Pappy-

You need to start a build thread of the 'Vette. People here would flip out on it. Hope all is well in Lost Wages!

Tyler

[JRouche]

Here is some technical information from the QA1 site that you might find useful.

I have attached a shot of my garage-built 4-link for an independant suspension. It uses a C-4 Corvette upright with Woodward swedged tubes and Aurora rod ends (3/4 in.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/Jrouche/Steves%20Nova/RearSuspension.jpg


Nice info, thanks!! And very clean, SOLID suspension. Thats a very professional job you did. Id love to see a build thread also.. You have some very nice work.. JR

[T_Raven]

Thanks for the good info guys. I've always heard heim joints need to be replaced every couple years and were bad for nvh but I never knew the jj had better longevity and less nvh. Can any one explain the differences between them or point me to a good website?

Edit: Never mind, I found them on Currie's website lol. I never knew there was urethane in a johnny joint, pretty cool design. There's a video on Currie's site http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/johnnyjoints.aspx