Please help... Engine decision?

[Nick.V70]

I am building a cruiser 70' Chevelle, need help getting some direction on what to start looking for as a power plant for my car. One thing I am pretty sure I want to see under the hood is a big block but nothing is set in stone and looking for help setting a direction.

How do people go about figuring out what to use and how to set there buying budgets for it?

Is there a popular engine combo I should be really taking a look at?

And I know it all comes down to money....I don't even know yet where I need to be on this and that is why I am lost. I would be OK with spending money but of course i just want the most for my money.

Thanks in advanced guys!!

[Flash68]

Are you building the motor yourself? You lookin for a crate motor with a warranty?

I'd say a 496 is a nice budget friendly big block that can easily put out a streetable 600-650hp on pump gas.

For some extra thunder (and $) just go for a 540 or 572 and really make that thing scoot.

And budgets are key as you probably know, but you probably also know they are usually blown up about half way thru the build! :lol:

Do you have a power goal in mind?

[awr68]

You looking for a carbed or EFI motor? All iron or aluminum top end? Pretty set on a BBC? Any chance you would want a supercharger in the future? Not interested in a 500ish hp LS motor? Wanting to keep it more origional looking?

These questions/answers will help narrow it down.

[Nick.V70]

I have built a few small blocks back in my younger days but nothing to talk about than normal stocker set ups. Never even found out what hp we kicked out from them. All when I was around 16-19yo and little budgets. I will either find someone to build this motor or buy a crate set up.

I would like a healthy 500-600+ area (not even sure what would get me there), maybe a power plant I can start off with and add to later if I want more and have the money to support it. Yes budgets are key to everything, you can set it and try to stick to it and most of the time you will go over it but when you don't set it you end up in trouble and lots of money out for a guy like me that has no idea what I want and doesn't know alot.

They guys that have many engines under there belt are the ones that build off no budget because they know where to not waste there money:lol:

I have been thinking of the GM 502ci ? Maybe start carb and later I can add to it?

[Flash68]

I would only do a 502 is you can find a good deal on one. You can basically get the same thing only cheaper with better internals if you take a good 454 block and add a forged 496 stroker rotating assembly.

600hp is no prob for this size and would be a very nice torque monster as well.

[Nick.V70]

You looking for a carbed or EFI motor? All iron or aluminum top end? Pretty set on a BBC? Any chance you would want a supercharger in the future? Not interested in a 500ish hp LS motor? Wanting to keep it more origional looking?

These questions/answers will help narrow it down.


Carb/EFI -
Not sure what I should do yet, all my back ground was SBC with carbs but all my more recent toys are EFI but Diesel.

Iron/Aluminum-
Have no idea?

SBC/BBC-
It's just me and want to set my goal for a BBC. I feel if I do a SBC I will always want to re-do it and drop a BBC in the car. I have just always wanted a BBC.

Chance of a supercharger in the future?-
Anything is possible. But not a idea as of right now. I am starting to see that a charger is what more people are doing than I thought at first.

Not interested in a 500ish hp LS motor?-
A LS motor could be if that's what I should really be looking at.

Wanting to keep it more original looking?-
I am looking to build a car that has many original looking areas with new school up grades that make you look twice (I guess that is called Pro-Turing look now). so I don't need the engine to look like it 100% belongs as it did off the show room floor.



awr68, I know all my answers are not perfect for suggestions but the truth of why I need help:_paranoid

[Nick.V70]

I would only do a 502 is you can find a good deal on one. You can basically get the same thing only cheaper with better internals if you take a good 454 block and add a forged 496 stroker rotating assembly.

600hp is no prob for this size and would be a very nice torque monster as well.



So the 502's are a pricy GM built crate motor? I can do better with my money?

[Flash68]

I think the 502s are pricey for what you get yes, unless you can score a used one or a good deal on a new one with warranty. And if you have experience building basic small blocks yourself, you could easily build a 496 if you find a good 454 4 bolt block core. I can't do it, but sounds like you can :lol:

I like the idea of a simple carbed big block and sometimes wish I had just done a simple carbed 540 vs the EFI procharged 406 small block I have now.

[Nick.V70]

So a procharged efi engine has alot of misc set up to get her dialed in, that is what I am not looking for right now. Later after I know more maybe.

Why you are liking the 540 better? What's the pros?

[Flash68]

So a procharged efi engine has alot of misc set up to get her dialed in, that is what I am not looking for right now. Later after I know more maybe.

Why you are liking the 540 better? What's the pros?

Well I love the setup, but it is more costly and has a lot more working parts (and therefore things can go wrong :lol:).

I orig planned a carbed 540 but when this turnkey motor came up for sale during the start of my build at a very good price (built by a reputable enthusiast) I jumped on it. It's just been an interesting road getting it dialed in.

I would have been happy with either motor I am quite sure. :)

For simplicity, I would go with a simple carbed big block as you are talking about.

[Vegas69]

I'm a big block guy myself. I always wanted a 69 Camaro and big block growing up. All my cars had small blocks. I considered an LS7 but the old school convinced me otherwise. That's only a decision you can make. The LS motors are clearly the cheapest way to make good reliable power. EVERYBODY is doing it for a good reason. I'm just not everybody. Used big blocks go pretty damn cheap. You may want to consider buying one from a stalled project at a discount. Building a big block from scratch isn't cheap. Then I'd throw an EZ EFI on it for a mix of old school and new. A 489,496,502,509 will all make 550-600 ft lbs easily with a wimpy cam and keep you in that sweet spot for the EZ EFI. If you want to push the envelope and I wish I would've a little more. You can go mechanical cam and a little higher compression and make 650-700hp with a wilder combo. You just need to keep in mind that takes you into a more expenisive injection system and rules out power brakes completely. You will need to be super careful even with a hydaulic cam for power brakes.

[wedged]

dare to be different. All aluminum 540 cid crate Hemi (http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f/10434013+w750+st0/0810phr_04_z+ford_gm_chrysler_all_aluminum_engines +mopar_540_hemi.jpg) :cheers: :woot:

[70rs]

I'm a big block guy myself. I always wanted a 69 Camaro and big block growing up. All my cars had small blocks. I considered an LS7 but the old school convinced me otherwise. That's only a decision you can make. The LS motors are clearly the cheapest way to make good reliable power. EVERYBODY is doing it for a good reason. I'm just not everybody. Used big blocks go pretty damn cheap. You may want to consider buying one from a stalled project at a discount. Building a big block from scratch isn't cheap. Then I'd throw an EZ EFI on it for a mix of old school and new. A 489,496,502,509 will all make 550-600 ft lbs easily with a wimpy cam and keep you in that sweet spot for the EZ EFI. If you want to push the envelope and I wish I would've a little more. You can go mechanical cam and a little higher compression and make 650-700hp with a wilder combo. You just need to keep in mind that takes you into a more expenisive injection system and rules out power brakes completely. You will need to be super careful even with a hydaulic cam for power brakes.


Nick,

Todd was a huge help in my big block design. As was a guy named Mike Lewis. He is also in Nor Cal. Look up Lewis Racing Engines. Between Mike and Todd I landed on a killer 489 build that should hit well over 600hp and run on pump gas without any troubles. Mike is a very good builder, can work up a good plan with your budget and goals in mind and has GREAT customer service too. He builds big blocks for a living and knows what he is doing. There are several guys on the Teamchevele.com forum running his engines. You can contact him at [email protected] or on the phone at 707-984-6103. He goes by the screen name "wolfplace" on Team Chevelle.com
Good luck with your project. Please let us know what you decide on.:cheers:

[camcojb]

Nick,

Todd was a huge help in my big block design. As was a guy named Mike Lewis. He is also in Nor Cal. Look up Lewis Racing Engines. Between Mike and Todd I landed on a killer 489 build that should hit well over 600hp and run on pump gas without any troubles. Mike is a very good builder, can work up a good plan with your budget and goals in mind and has GREAT customer service too. He builds big blocks for a living and knows what he is doing. There are several guys on the Teamchevele.com forum running his engines. You can contact him at [email protected] or on the phone at 707-984-6103. He goes by the screen name "wolfplace" on Team Chevelle.com
Good luck with your project. Please let us know what you decide on.:cheers:
I second the Mike Lewis recommendation, great guy to work with.

Jody

[70rs]

I second the Mike Lewis recommendation, great guy to work with.

Jody

I apologize Jody. You were the first to send me searching for Mike and I neglegted to mention that. Mike is a really good guy to work with.
:cheers:

[camcojb]

I apologize Jody. You were the first to send me searching for Mike and I neglegted to mention that. Mike is a really good guy to work with.
:cheers:
no reason to apologize, you were correct, Mike is one of the good guys............. :)

Jody

[awr68]

Yep, Jody sent me to Mike for my LT1 build and I can't thank him enough! Mike was a real pleasure to work with!! :thumbsup:

[Nick.V70]

Ok so now we are talking about a carbed 540 BBC range. For something good and streetable but power on tap, what might be looking at spending for a set up from oil pan up before all the other needed upgrades to go with a swap like this. Just he complete motor, also are we talking getting a block and building it or just getting a crate motor from gm. What's the pros vs cons I should conseder?

By the way you guys are a great help, saving money in the end will be doing it once and not finding out I should have purchased something better for my personal use of what I want out of the motor.

[Nick.V70]

Also I will hheck this Mike guy out. I want to get a better direction before I start calling people so I have more feed back for them to help me.

[Vegas69]

A 540 will take you into aftermarket block territory. There was a recent article in one of the magazines on a 502 build up. Just a set of Dart Pro 1 heads like I run, around 10-1 compression, and not an overly radical cam. It made like 670hp and around 640 ftlbs. I looked for the article and couldn't find it. I'm sure Mike will point you in the right direction.

[70rs]

Also I will hheck this Mike guy out. I want to get a better direction before I start calling people so I have more feed back for them to help me.

If you call Mike and tell him what you want out of the car and how you intend to use it he can help you design what is best for you. There are a million different ways to build an engine and just as many opinions about what to use. I would be happy to give you mine if you want it. But I really think that someone with the experience of a pro builder like Mike will be the best help you can get. Just tell him how you would like to use the car and what your budget is and go from there. :cheers:

[Flash68]

Ok so now we are talking about a carbed 540 BBC range. For something good and streetable but power on tap, what might be looking at spending for a set up from oil pan up before all the other needed upgrades to go with a swap like this. Just he complete motor, also are we talking getting a block and building it or just getting a crate motor from gm. What's the pros vs cons I should conseder?

By the way you guys are a great help, saving money in the end will be doing it once and not finding out I should have purchased something better for my personal use of what I want out of the motor.

Well, I don't know if you are talking about a 540, but that's what I was talking about. :lol:

Here is a good start.

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/540_ultrastreet.asp

Crate motor from builder comes with warranty. (pro)

You build it yourself you save money (pro) but no warranty (con).

You could also do a short block 502 or a long block and finish it yourself since you have skills and tools it sounds like.

http://sdparts.com/catalog/crate-engines/gm-performance-parts-502ci/-502hp-zz502-engine

[Flash68]

A 540 will take you into aftermarket block territory. There was a recent article in one of the magazines on a 502 build up. Just a set of Dart Pro 1 heads like I run, around 10-1 compression, and not an overly radical cam. It made like 670hp and around 640 ftlbs. I looked for the article and couldn't find it. I'm sure Mike will point you in the right direction.

There was an article probably 10+ years ago where the late John Lingenfelter put ported oval port heads on a stock 502 with a decent size cam and made 660-670 hp, so it is pretty easily done and remains very street friendly.

Again, you could duplicate very easily with a 496 as well. Lotsa options here!

EDIT: here is the simple Lingenfelter 502 article.... wow, from 1993!

http://www.derekspratt.com/PDFs/Automotive/Other/Hot%20Rod%20-%20GM%20502%20Rat%20Motor%20Buildup%20-%20January%201993.pdf

[Nick.V70]

Ok so looks like I have to take momma a letter for my motor that says about 8k-10k for between a 502 or 540 to be making between 550-high600 hp range and streetable. Bang for the buck he 502 is better if I am reading what you guys are saying and then later I can add ram injection if I want more?

[Vegas69]

That's a good read but it can be done with a dual plane intake and 4150 carb nowadays with more power. The key is to design the engine for your intended application.

[70rs]

I really don't see the need to go with so much displacement that you have to use an aftermarket block. Why do that and have the extra expense when the goal is 550-600 hp in a streetable package? A 489-496 CID based on a production 454 block with good internals (same quality as inside a 502 or 540) will cover all of your needs and still offer room for more power down the road. (try getting all of that torque to stick to the road, not easy. More power will just be wasted)
If you use 489 inches as a starting point, add a good hyd roller cam, decent heads, good induction and exhaust and keep the comp ratio at a reasonable level you will have a 600+hp motor that runs on pump gas and will last you forever. More cubic inches is great at the show when the other guy asks but it will serve no purpose in THIS application. All it will do is make the overall cost of the build higher. Unless someone has a line on cheap 502/540 size blocks?
Of course, I could have my head way up my a** here. I still say go talk to Mike and tell him your goals.
Just my .02 :cheers:

[Nick.V70]

All great info guys that is starting to make alot of sence. Keep it up and I am a sponge right now taking it all in!!!

Thanks

keep I all coming.

[Flash68]

I really don't see the need to go with so much displacement that you have to use an aftermarket block. Why do that and have the extra expense when the goal is 550-600 hp in a streetable package? A 489-496 CID based on a production 454 block with good internals (same quality as inside a 502 or 540) will cover all of your needs and still offer room for more power down the road. (try getting all of that torque to stick to the road, not easy. More power will just be wasted)
If you use 489 inches as a starting point, add a good hyd roller cam, decent heads, good induction and exhaust and keep the comp ratio at a reasonable level you will have a 600+hp motor that runs on pump gas and will last you forever. More cubic inches is great at the show when the other guy asks but it will serve no purpose in THIS application. All it will do is make the overall cost of the build higher. Unless someone has a line on cheap 502/540 size blocks?
Of course, I could have my head way up my a** here. I still say go talk to Mike and tell him your goals.
Just my .02 :cheers:

Word. :lateral:

[Nick.V70]

Word. :lateral:

Was your car in one of the building this past good guys right by the glass doors?

[Flash68]

Was your car in one of the building this past good guys right by the glass doors?

affirmative. did you and I chat?

[Nick.V70]

affirmative. did you and I chat?

So I take it you where the guy standing by it talking to people. Sat. I was the guy standing there for about 10 mins looking at it and trying to take pics with my little guy in my arms. Very nice car man!! I love the style of the over all look with the dark grey and black wheels. Bad ass!! :hail:

[Flash68]

So I take it you where the guy standing by it talking to people. Sat. I was the guy standing there for about 10 mins looking at it and trying to take pics with my little guy in my arms. Very nice car man!! I love the style of the over all look with the dark grey and black wheels. Bad ass!! :hail:

That was most likely me. Jason (the builder) was there quite a bit too with all the cars there in our group. Being my first car show with a car I wasn't expecting to talk so much with spectators but I really enjoyed that aspect of it. Thanks man for the good words. Really appreciate it.

Enough about me, back to your stuff! :cheers:

Oh, and the gray 69 Chevelle right in front of mine is my buddy's who lives in Livermore also and built that sucker all himself in his driveway (no garage!).

[camcojb]

Being my first car show with a car I wasn't expecting to talk so much with spectators but I really enjoyed that aspect of it.
that's my favorite part of a car show, talking with other gearheads.

Jody

[Flash68]

that's my favorite part of a car show, talking with other gearheads.

Jody

yeah I just wasn't used to standing in the same place for a whole weekend at a GG show.... I didn't even get to see all the cars at the show and that was weird. But it was a great weekend and I got a little taste of everything and had a lot of great conversations and met some Lateral-G friends, and I even sounded like I knew what I was talking about most of the time I think :lol:

Jody, did you end up coming?

[Nick.V70]

yeah I just wasn't used to standing in the same place for a whole weekend at a GG show.... I didn't even get to see all the cars at the show and that was weird.


I know what you mean :lol:

I wish I had the chance to chat with you. Next time.

[camcojb]

yeah I just wasn't used to standing in the same place for a whole weekend at a GG show.... I didn't even get to see all the cars at the show and that was weird. But it was a great weekend and I got a little taste of everything and had a lot of great conversations and met some Lateral-G friends, and I even sounded like I knew what I was talking about most of the time I think :lol:

Jody, did you end up coming?
no, I was busy and couldn't make it. I would have definitely found you if I was there.

Jody

[Flash68]

I know what you mean :lol:

I wish I had the chance to chat with you. Next time.

Likewise... until next time..... :thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

For what it's worth, I've heard good things about Mike at Lewis racing engines as well. Have you considered this as well? - http://sdparts.com/details/gm-performance-parts/12498792
Has just about everything you need, but it does not include water pump, carburetor, distributor, intake manifold, or spark plug wires. That way, you can chose your own and make a bit more power. I'm sure there's a warranty behind it as well.
GOOD LUCK!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Nick.V70]

Before you start thinking I am way off my rockers....I'm not, but my line of work brings me to ask what do all the muscle car owners fell about a diesel swap. There is the 70' that had a twin turbo duramax in it. Do most feel that is not what these cars should even think about having in it or is that something way cool? Looking for opinion. I know it's way more work than many other swaps but like I said my line of work has me thinking. I am not really sold on it just looking for opinion.

I'm pretty sold on a big block crate 502 or having a a Big block built.

[camcojb]

Before you start thinking I am way off my rockers....I'm not, but my line of work brings me to ask what do all the muscle car owners fell about a diesel swap. There is the 70' that had a twin turbo duramax in it. Do most feel that is not what these cars should even think about having in it or is that something way cool? Looking for opinion. I know it's way more work than many other swaps but like I said my line of work has me thinking. I am not really sold on it just looking for opinion.

I'm pretty sold on a big block crate 502 or having a a Big block built.
well, you have kind of an inside track on it, but as far as popularity or opinions I'd guess there's way more that don't get it than do.

I've seen the car in person and it's cool, but I would think most would not approve. Then again, I usually do what I want to do, but you asked opinions............... :unibrow:

Jody

[70rs]

Before you start thinking I am way off my rockers....I'm not, but my line of work brings me to ask what do all the muscle car owners fell about a diesel swap. There is the 70' that had a twin turbo duramax in it. Do most feel that is not what these cars should even think about having in it or is that something way cool? Looking for opinion. I know it's way more work than many other swaps but like I said my line of work has me thinking. I am not really sold on it just looking for opinion.

I'm pretty sold on a big block crate 502 or having a a Big block built.

I say it's your car and do what you want. There are pros and cons to any engine set up. If you have a way to make it happen and want something more unique, go for it. My personal opinion would be to go with the big block idea and add fuel injection to it. Great power, street manners (tuned right) and maybe some decent mpg.
But to each his own. Do what makes you happy with your car.:cheers:

[Flash68]

Nick I would LOVE to see you swap a diesel motor into that thing. I love the Duramax Chevelle. Saw it at SEMA 2 years ago. Amazing machine.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0906phr_1970_chevy_chevelle_turbo_diesel/index.html

Do it! :thumbsup:

[70rs]

Ok, I changed my vote after seeing that article again. Killer power and even better MPG. Do the swap!!:thumbsup:

[Nick.V70]

well, you have kind of an inside track on it, but as far as popularity or opinions I'd guess there's way more that don't get it than do.

I've seen the car in person and it's cool, but I would think most would not approve. Then again, I usually do what I want to do, but you asked opinions............... :unibrow:

Jody

Well after driving that twin turbo Dmax I had here I want twins on my Dmax Dually. Know what truck I am talking about:bow:

Started think WOW what they would be like in a Chevelle like the car from down south PPE had done some work on. I saw a vid on the car and it looks like it handled like crap....pushed way to hard, but over all that car is bad ass. Maybe later down the road I can think of something like this. Right now I need to stay on track and get a BBC.


I say it's your car and do what you want. There are pros and cons to any engine set up. If you have a way to make it happen and want something more unique, go for it. My personal opinion would be to go with the big block idea and add fuel injection to it. Great power, street manners (tuned right) and maybe some decent mpg.
But to each his own. Do what makes you happy with your car.:cheers:

Man that is a really nice way to say...Nick you are off your rockers...:lol: ...No really thanks and it would be cool but not something this car needs to be. I told my wife and she said thatwe bought this car to get out of the truck world alittle and then here I go putting it right back into it with thinking about a Dmax engine.

Really thanks for the nice words and your post is a reason I felt I could get some real feed back and not just a hatter remark:thumbsup: .

Nick I would LOVE to see you swap a diesel motor into that thing. I love the Duramax Chevelle. Saw it at SEMA 2 years ago. Amazing machine.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0906phr_1970_chevy_chevelle_turbo_diesel/index.html

Do it! :thumbsup:

Yea I saw it there also and feel in love with it. Maybeone day I can do something like that.

[214Chevy]

Nick, have you had time to think about the PM I sent you?

[Nick.V70]

Nick, have you had time to think about the PM I sent you?

Just did:thumbsup:

Nice car BTW!!

[70rs]

[

Man that is a really nice way to say...Nick you are off your rockers...:lol: ...No really thanks and it would be cool but not something this car needs to be. I told my wife and she said thatwe bought this car to get out of the truck world alittle and then here I go putting it right back into it with thinking about a Dmax engine.

Really thanks for the nice words and your post is a reason I felt I could get some real feed back and not just a hatter remark:thumbsup: .


Nah, if I thought you were off your rocker I would just say so.:rofl:

I think the big block with EFI is a great way to go. But with any budget concerns the EFI could wait. The D Max on the other hand would be cool. Great power and MPGs. BUT...the expense of the swap, upgrades to the motor and trans, fuel system, chassis, brakes and all the other little stuff to really make the car :right: with that drivetrain will cost a small fortune. So I guess it comes down to your budget and desires. If you can swing it and still keep the wife happy then do the Dmax. If you want something more traditional and I am guessing A LOT cheaper to finish then do the big block.
Either way, you can only get so much power to the ground(to hook anyway). So to me the big block makes more sense. Still lots of fun, cheaper in the long run and maybe a little better for resale if you ever decide to move on to another project. But the Dmax is all over the "dare to bo different" theme.

Confused yet?:rofl:

[Nick.V70]

I completely hear you. I think it would be different adn cost a crap more $$ to do. For being that I am just a born again Chevelle owner I need to stay focused on more traditional direction and be happy. Maybe I will just need to put twins on my dually dmax to feed that hunger of wanting some big dmax power:willy:.

I will be dreaming of a 502 gift card in my sock from my wife this xmas:thumbsup:

[70rs]

I completely hear you. I think it would be different adn cost a crap more $$ to do. For being that I am just a born again Chevelle owner I need to stay focused on more traditional direction and be happy. Maybe I will just need to put twins on my dually dmax to feed that hunger of wanting some big dmax power:willy:.

I will be dreaming of a 502 gift card in my sock from my wife this xmas:thumbsup:

Have you ever had a chance to drive something with a 600hp big block? It's hard to describe. But with all the magazines and builds spouting off about these huge numbers (700hp LS builds, 500hp small blocks) it can get a little out of perspective as to how much power and torque there really is on tap. When you have a chance to drive something with a well built big block you will forget the Dmax idea. 600hp in a street car with good suspension and brakes is a real eye opener.
If you want something to compare to, go test drive a new Corvette. Those are rated at 430hp (I believe) at the crank. Get on it a bit on the freeway and feel the torque. Then imagine a 150hp and about the same in torque increase. You will see that 600hp is MORE than enough in a street car. And it is a total riot to play with. I have driven several Chevelles up here (local Teamchevelle.com members) with 400-500hp big blocks, TKO600 and automatic trans, some set up for corners and some for drag racing only. Only way to describe 500hp at full throttle is AWESOME!!:cheers:

[Nick.V70]

Have you ever had a chance to drive something with a 600hp big block? It's hard to describe. But with all the magazines and builds spouting off about these huge numbers (700hp LS builds, 500hp small blocks) it can get a little out of perspective as to how much power and torque there really is on tap. When you have a chance to drive something with a well built big block you will forget the Dmax idea. 600hp in a street car with good suspension and brakes is a real eye opener.
If you want something to compare to, go test drive a new Corvette. Those are rated at 430hp (I believe) at the crank. Get on it a bit on the freeway and feel the torque. Then imagine a 150hp and about the same in torque increase. You will see that 600hp is MORE than enough in a street car. And it is a total riot to play with. I have driven several Chevelles up here (local Teamchevelle.com members) with 400-500hp big blocks, TKO600 and automatic trans, some set up for corners and some for drag racing only. Only way to describe 500hp at full throttle is AWESOME!!:cheers:


It's been a long time sense being in a BBC classic car. I will have to find one to ride in local. Ill be the first to say I don't need any of this power but it's more like a good looking wheel, it's the "look" of what you want to see on your car. This car is not for anytype of racing so the true aspect of power is not the main focus.

All the help on this has been great to open my eye to options not thought about and also get me in line of what I need to know or look at before I waste my money on the wrong things.

:cheers: :lateral:

[Flash68]

Have you ever had a chance to drive something with a 600hp big block? It's hard to describe. But with all the magazines and builds spouting off about these huge numbers (700hp LS builds, 500hp small blocks) it can get a little out of perspective as to how much power and torque there really is on tap. When you have a chance to drive something with a well built big block you will forget the Dmax idea. 600hp in a street car with good suspension and brakes is a real eye opener.
If you want something to compare to, go test drive a new Corvette. Those are rated at 430hp (I believe) at the crank. Get on it a bit on the freeway and feel the torque. Then imagine a 150hp and about the same in torque increase. You will see that 600hp is MORE than enough in a street car. And it is a total riot to play with. I have driven several Chevelles up here (local Teamchevelle.com members) with 400-500hp big blocks, TKO600 and automatic trans, some set up for corners and some for drag racing only. Only way to describe 500hp at full throttle is AWESOME!!:cheers:

It's not so much how much power is a lot to the masses. It's all about what you as an individual is used to. Some people think 400hp is powerful and scary. And in certain hands, yes it can be. And then others ar bored if they do not have 1000hp on tap. I know some people like that. 2 years ago I thought 400-500 hp was quite a bit and got me excited. Now it bores the hell out of me. I need 700+ to be even stimulated. Yes it's quite sad I know. :lol:

But the sound of a stout big block is quite pleasing and hard to beat. :woot:

[70rs]

It's not so much how much power is a lot to the masses. It's all about what you as an individual is used to. Some people think 400hp is powerful and scary. And in certain hands, yes it can be. And then others ar bored if they do not have 1000hp on tap. I know some people like that. 2 years ago I thought 400-500 hp was quite a bit and got me excited. Now it bores the hell out of me. I need 700+ to be even stimulated. Yes it's quite sad I know. :lol:

But the sound of a stout big block is quite pleasing and hard to beat. :woot:

You're right and make a very good point. If Nick is used to some serious Dmax power then a 500hp street motor might seem kind of tame.
The point I was making about the magazines and all of the numbers thrown around (and I did a poor job of making the point) was that it gets us "numb" to what good horsepower is. That number is different for everyone.
:cheers:

[Nick.V70]

You guys are right and hp #'s all can sound great but it's the seat of your pants feeling that will be the end decision and I feel the BBC 502 should make me plenty happy.

Now I need to start tranny option thread:willy: :lol:

[70rs]

You guys are right and hp #'s all can sound great but it's the seat of your pants feeling that will be the end decision and I feel the BBC 502 should make me plenty happy.

Now I need to start tranny option thread:willy: :lol:

The trans is the easy part. T56 Magnum. Done. Next? Oh yeah the rear. 9 inch. Call Justin at Driverzinc. He will get you set up. What else you need?
:lol: :cheers: Brakes? Suspension?

[Nick.V70]

:rofl:

T56 Magnum ...

How much? ....And what makes it better than something else?

Be nice, I really don't know what I am even asking, back in my car days and my age vs. $$ we had 350, 400r & 700r was all we talked about.

[70rs]

:rofl:

T56 Magnum ...

How much? ....And what makes it better than something else?

Be nice, I really don't know what I am even asking, back in my car days and my age vs. $$ we had 350, 400r & 700r was all we talked about.

I'm nice. What's that mean?? :rofl: You talk like you have met me on a job site somewhere.... Have we met?:rofl: Just kidding.

The T56 Magnum is a 6 speed manual. It is an improved version of the T56 used in many production cars.(think 4th gen Z28, Viper, ) The improvements are really an understatement, it's pretty much a new design. It has stronger gears, shafts, better syncro design. Much more than I can remember. It is rated to 700-750hp if I recall. For just a bit less $$ there is the TKO600 which is a 5 speed manual rated at 600hp. Both have a couple options for final gear ratio so you can kind of tune it to your needs. For pricing check out Classic Chevy 5 speed or Kiesler.
I think 3-4k would get you a complete kit including crossmember to swap it in your car. That is only a ballpark guess. Don't quote me on it.
There are kits available to do these transmission swaps. They will include EVERYTHING needed to get the trans in the car up and running. Shifter, clutch, driveshaft, bellhousing, pedals, linkages...all of it.

[Nick.V70]

I'm nice. What's that mean?? :rofl: You talk like you have met me on a job site somewhere.... Have we met?:rofl: Just kidding.

The T56 Magnum is a 6 speed manual. It is an improved version of the T56 used in many production cars.(think 4th gen Z28, Viper, ) The improvements are really an understatement, it's pretty much a new design. It has stronger gears, shafts, better syncro design. Much more than I can remember. It is rated to 700-750hp if I recall. For just a bit less $$ there is the TKO600 which is a 5 speed manual rated at 600hp. Both have a couple options for final gear ratio so you can kind of tune it to your needs. For pricing check out Classic Chevy 5 speed or Kiesler.
I think 3-4k would get you a complete kit including crossmember to swap it in your car. That is only a ballpark guess. Don't quote me on it.
There are kits available to do these transmission swaps. They will include EVERYTHING needed to get the trans in the car up and running. Shifter, clutch, driveshaft, bellhousing, pedals, linkages...all of it.



You are good...:cheers:
Just thought it was funny you answered that easy...I had no idea what the T56 Magnum was. So a manual...OK what about a auto? I kinda like to have my right hand on other things when I am driving around, thats if my wife is with me.....other wise my right hand is free and not doing anything before anyone takes that and makes there own judgment:rofl:

[70rs]

My free hand is usually making obscene gestures at other drivers. Seattle traffic sucks as bad as So Cal. I need a manual shifter to keep my hand busy and keep me out of trouble.:rofl:

As for an auto there are a lot of choices. A 700R4 would be a good one for no computer stuff. Or if you don't mind getting involved with computer controlls any of the current 4 speed or even the 6 speed auto would work. TCI has a retro fit 6 speed with paddle shift option available (no idea on cost though).

Twist Machine has a paddle shift system for many of the current autos. And I think they can also provide the entire trany and control system. Look there first.

[Nick.V70]

Ok, so I am close to pullng a trigger on a BBC. Have a 468 and a 502 I am looking at. I can get the 468 cheaper but my gut is saying just go after the 502 so I have more to work with later if I wan more, yes?

[andrew5]

i have a 70,just a fun street car.i built a 454,solid lifter with a mild lift(520),iron heads,steel crank,air gap intake with a 750 holley.it's a litle over 500 hp.backed by a 700r4 and 3:73 12 bolt.it's plenty for the street,and i can drive it every were. it's budget minded (well relitivly speaking compared to all the bad ass builds here on :lateral: and loads of fun.plenty for a street car in my humble opinion . drew

[70rs]

Ok, so I am close to pullng a trigger on a BBC. Have a 468 and a 502 I am looking at. I can get the 468 cheaper but my gut is saying just go after the 502 so I have more to work with later if I wan more, yes?

Hello Nick,
If you have the option and the money is not an issue then the 502 makes more sense. You will have a lot of room to grow with that. The 468 can be punched out more too(not much though), but the 502 is a better bang for the buck IMO.

[Flash68]

Hello Nick,
If you have the option and the money is not an issue then the 502 makes more sense. You will have a lot of room to grow with that. The 468 can be punched out more too(not much though), but the 502 is a better bang for the buck IMO.

Can't the 454/468 be easily stroked to 496? A forged stroker kit for that block, assuming it's good, is pretty cheap I believe. Not sure I would pay a premium for the 502 unless it already has a forged bottom end. ?

[Vegas69]

Are these run ready engines or do they need work?

[70rs]

Can't the 454/468 be easily stroked to 496? A forged stroker kit for that block, assuming it's good, is pretty cheap I believe. Not sure I would pay a premium for the 502 unless it already has a forged bottom end. ?

I THINK the 502 has a forged bottom end Dave. And yes, the 454 can be punched out and taken to 496 inches but that about does it. The 502 is a different block and can be taken out beyond that (not sure how far though, I think at least 540). My only point was that if money is not a consideration then the 502 would give him more room to grow down the road.:cheers:

[Nick.V70]

Hello Nick,
If you have the option and the money is not an issue then the 502 makes more sense. You will have a lot of room to grow with that. The 468 can be punched out more too(not much though), but the 502 is a better bang for the buck IMO.

I THINK the 502 has a forged bottom end Dave. And yes, the 454 can be punched out and taken to 496 inches but that about does it. The 502 is a different block and can be taken out beyond that (not sure how far though, I think at least 540). My only point was that if money is not a consideration then the 502 would give him more room to grow down the road.:cheers:


Yes that is kinda what I was thinking also or wanting to confirm. I understand going the 502 route will take up more money out of the hole but I have no idea if I will want more later and I want to be wise early than say "crap, I should have....:( "

Are these run ready engines or do they need work?

Both are fresh builds never in a car but dyno'd with build sheets. They are stated to be between the 550-600hp range. I am waiting on the specs of the 502 build.



Again I do want to say thanks to everyone that has helped on input good or bad about my personal questions on my engine decision. It's been along time for me from my young SBC 383 stroker days and man alot has changed. Tons more options and of course when I was younger money was alot tighter so I never was looking at BBC's.....so pretty much I am a newbie on what I want and just want to feel good about what I pick and spend my money on. To save money it's best to know what you are trying to buy so you make sure it's the right purchase the first time....not the 3rd time after and wasting money:willy:

Thanks guys!!:cheers:

[dezl]

how much do you want to spend nick?

Ive got a solid 427 for sale out of my 69. The thing is brand new, it does need to be tuned a bit but it should make a solid 600+ hp. Ive also got a 383 Stroker motor for sale with a turbo 400 behind it. Again solidly built.

[Nick.V70]

So here is a few month update....did a ton of thinking and I know the engine is going to be a good chunk of money for what I want so I have pushed it off till the later part of my car build so I don't budget the engine money based on getting overwhelmed with everything else I am spending money on at this point.

A little more help on the motor as I have been opened up to seeing that a 454in the larger or stroked state should make me plenty happy. A 502 bottom end is still on my mind and after I have a couple other big purchases out of the way I wanted to start either stacking engine parts to the side and starting with a block or bottom end is the first piece of the puzzle, but I am lost on where to start. I am setting my budget @ $10-12k for now as a budget to handle carb to pan. Too much or not enough? Do I start by purchasing a 502 short block and then build off that or find myself a 454 and stroke it to a larger C.I. , I believe you can stroke the 454 to somewhere between 486-515CI ? (Help Please)

Oh and the big question who is building it, I really don't know yet. I have been fighting myself to do most all the work on the car because the point of my car is to 1 get me out of my normal routine and put myself back in the shop working on something different than I have found myself wrapped up in and 2 basically finally personally build the car of my dreams that means so much to me to replace again from my younger years. So I may do some of the assembly myself and recruit some help from friends or I may take the easy route and send everything to a engine builder. How many guys are still building there own engines of this caliber? Or is this something someone with past small block engine building should be trying to tackle? I have all the general tools other than specialty tools such as to drop the pistons in the block and cam degree tools. We build trucks as in suspension and other modifications so other than engine building tools we have it and what I know I will need I can either barrow or purchase.

I have talked to a few friends but most all would have someone build it because non of us really have the time with kids and family + work but I am forcing myself to do as much as I can on this, am I crazy?


OH AND to the guys that said I should go 5 speed well I am looking at purchasing a 5 speed right now, any direction I should be looking for my purchase?

Also I have alot already going on with the car and will be posting a full thread of it very soon....

Thanks guys!!!:cheers: :lateral:

[1HTBRRD]

Nick,
Just my 2 cents.... I have a 468BB with merlin heads, a big solid roller cam, 10.5 to 1 compression, 850 carb, and free flowing exhaust. It is a fairly mild build, but extremely fun and tons of torque.

I am actually considering a more mild hydraulic cam and fast EZ EFI for better gas mileage because I make a 70 mile round trip to work every once in awhile. I put a six speed behind it after trying to drive it on the freeway for more than 2 minutes.

Sounds like you have a good budget to start with, just need to figure out how much you will be driving the car. I sometimes wish I had gone the LS route, but that quickly goes away when I hit the gas and break traction at 45mph :yes:

One thing is for sure, whichever engine you decide on make sure to back it with a six speed:lateral:

[Nick.V70]

Nick,
Just my 2 cents.... I have a 468BB with merlin heads, a big solid roller cam, 10.5 to 1 compression, 850 carb, and free flowing exhaust. It is a fairly mild build, but extremely fun and tons of torque.

I am actually considering a more mild hydraulic cam and fast EZ EFI for better gas mileage because I make a 70 mile round trip to work every once in awhile. I put a six speed behind it after trying to drive it on the freeway for more than 2 minutes.

Sounds like you have a good budget to start with, just need to figure out how much you will be driving the car. I sometimes wish I had gone the LS route, but that quickly goes away when I hit the gas and break traction at 45mph :yes:

One thing is for sure, whichever engine you decide on make sure to back it with a six speed:lateral:


Thank you for the post.

I am researching if I can plug a Tremec 5 or 6 speed in my car right now because I am at that point with the inside pulled apart.

I do plan on enjoying the car as much as I can. I live close to work so it would be driven daily pending on what I have going on. I am having a 9" built as soon as my new wheels show up because I went with a small back space for a deep dish so I have to cut a axle shorter before I can run them. So swapping out the final gear ratio to match the tranny/engine combo will not be that bad when that gets completely matched together.

I have to say the engine tranny combo has been the hardest part to come to a decision on this car, everything else has been pretty simple for the most part because I already knew the look I was after but the engine/tranny combo is killing me, now that it is tranny time I am happy that I changed my mind to go manual.

[Flash68]

Make a decision yet? :D

[Nick.V70]

Make a decision yet? :D

Well, axle that I have being built is said to handle atleast 800hp so I guess I have no excuses:lol: . Really I have put the engine to the side and handling everything else so I am ready for what I decide on. Still flip flopping between a stroked 454 to a Merlin 540, or something with lower compresion and a charger:unibrow: The current plan is to drop a simple BBC that one of my buddies have so I can plug a TKO600 in that I will be purchasing next and then get all the other parts worked out around the BB engine swap and then start building a final BB and just have to do a long block and few parts swap over.

So did you catch that fact that I have come to terms and ditched the 700r for a TKO600:D

[Flash68]

Well, axle that I have being built is said to handle atleast 800hp so I guess I have no excuses:lol: . Really I have put the engine to the side and handling everything else so I am ready for what I decide on. Still flip flopping between a stroked 454 to a Merlin 540, or something with lower compresion and a charger:unibrow: The current plan is to drop a simple BBC that one of my buddies have so I can plug a TKO600 in that I will be purchasing next and then get all the other parts worked out around the BB engine swap and then start building a final BB and just have to do a long block and few parts swap over.

So did you catch that fact that I have come to terms and ditched the 700r for a TKO600:D

A 496 or 540 will both be sweet. Guess it all depends on the better deal I would say.

Great call on the TKO - that will make it extra fun and unmanageable! :D :woot:

[camcojb]

A 496 or 540 will both be sweet. Guess it all depends on the better deal I would say.

Great call on the TKO - that will make it extra fun and unmanageable! :D :woot:
Vortecpro just made over 700 hp/torque with an oval port iron headed 496 that will run on pump gas..................... :wow: :thumbsup:

Jody

[214Chevy]

So did you catch that fact that I have come to terms and ditched the 700r for a TKO600:D

No matter what engine you decide on, I think you definately made the right choice on the tranny with the TKO600. There's nothing more fun than hitting gears shaking and moving down the highway.:thumbsup: But, since we are on the engine...I'd say 540. The torque on that thing will be insane. HP is fine to factor in, but when are you going to use or need 600 or 700 horsepower speeding down the freeway. But, the pull of the torque from it you will feel at every single light and shift of every single gear. Monster torque will pin you to your seat at every mash of the gas pedal. Think about it....:wow:

[Vegas69]

A 454 stroker will give him all the torque and hp he'll ever need it it's built right. I'm not a big fan of my tko600. I'd rather have a t56 magnum.

[Flash68]

Vortecpro just made over 700 hp/torque with an oval port iron headed 496 that will run on pump gas..................... :wow: :thumbsup:

Jody

Never heard of those guys. Now these engines seem like a great bang for the buck.

http://www.vortecproperformance.com/engine_combinations.html

Monster torque will pin you to your seat at every mash of the gas pedal. Think about it....:wow:

Think about this.... zero traction with either motor. :lol:

[Nick.V70]

Vortecpro just made over 700 hp/torque with an oval port iron headed 496 that will run on pump gas..................... :wow: :thumbsup:

Jody

Never heard of those guys. Now these engines seem like a great bang for the buck.

http://www.vortecproperformance.com/engine_combinations.html



Think about this.... zero traction with either motor. :lol:

Wow I just checked out that site. Is that guy building out of his garage? Man some pretty nice prices on a complete.

I am still holding on to possible pro-charger, I am still waiting for my ride in Brandon's Camaro that lives in town here. Brandon ...hello? :unibrow:

I don't need a 200mph car....I just need the WOW factor to be a big bang when I am in the drivers seat:thumbsup: Other wise I should just leave the 307 in the car and get a chrome dress up kit for it and maybe a 4 barrel carb with one of those nice looking air cleaners:lol:

[PSV]

Mark Jones builds a great engine. He did a 468 for me in July and made 628 hp 612 ft lbs on pump gas 10:1 mild cam. I spent the day at his shop for the dyno day with Mr Harold Bettes and Mark and learned a lot. Great guy and makes big power without breaking the bank. We will be building a 555 to 582 next year and hope to make 800+ street friendly power and torque for the 67 camaro I got from David at Road Killer.

[PSV]

Here is a very nice article on Mark and his engines by Harold Bettes.

http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep11/EP07-2010_20-28.pdf

[Nick.V70]

Well I finally made a decision and purchased a 454 with low hours and I am going to start with that to get my feet wet and go from there. It's nothing crazy but just enough to make me happy for the time being.

I will post some pics in a couple weeks once I get it.

Now i can purchase my TKO600 and finish up my floor inside the car.

[Nick.V70]

Mark Jones builds a great engine. He did a 468 for me in July and made 628 hp 612 ft lbs on pump gas 10:1 mild cam. I spent the day at his shop for the dyno day with Mr Harold Bettes and Mark and learned a lot. Great guy and makes big power without breaking the bank. We will be building a 555 to 582 next year and hope to make 800+ street friendly power and torque for the 67 camaro I got from David at Road Killer.

Here is a very nice article on Mark and his engines by Harold Bettes.

http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep11/EP07-2010_20-28.pdf

Thank you for the link, looks like some great packages and prices.

I will still be building a final engine for the car so I still want feed back and info.:lateral:

[Flash68]

Nice work. How much power is the big block putting out?

[Nick.V70]

Nice work. How much power is the big block putting out?

I don't have any sheets or est. for it but I would guess it should be good for 400-450ish at most. Enough to have fun, It was a great deal so I could not pass it up. I pick it up in 2 weeks and I should have all the paper work on it so I will post all the goodies when I get it home.

[6D9]

Congrats Nick! A decent BBC with a stick is gonna be a blast no matter what! After the trip to the strip we should try and hook up in March to go to the Run thru the Hills in Socal!

[Flash68]

I don't have any sheets or est. for it but I would guess it should be good for 400-450ish at most. Enough to have fun, It was a great deal so I could not pass it up. I pick it up in 2 weeks and I should have all the paper work on it so I will post all the goodies when I get it home.

Nice. And 496 stoker kits are cheap when you're ready for 600+ hp/ft lbs. :D

Congrats Nick! A decent BBC with a stick is gonna be a blast no matter what! After the trip to the strip we should try and hook up in March to go to the Run thru the Hills in Socal!

Yeah dude. I have my eye on March to try to make that trip with ya'all.

[Nick.V70]

OK here it is....my starter engine!!!!!

http://www.norcaltruck.com/01_misc_pic/70'%20Chevelle/Engine/BBC1.JPG



Fresh rebuilt 454
4 bolt main
bored 030
forged dome pistons 10:1 comp.
ls6 crank
Isky cam 590 lift solid lifter
990 rec port heads just had valve job
Holley intake manifold
Holley Carb 750 double pumper
roller rockers
HEI Dizzy
new GM starter

Picked it up in SoCal from a member on here, great deal :cheers:

My idea is to plug this into the car, get my TKO600 installed and purchase a pulley system, headers, rad. and any other little odds and ends. Get the feel for what I can expect out of a 454 and then make a judgement on where I will start and build a bigger engine.

I am strongly leaning on something like this....feel in love with this car over the weekend....


http://www.norcaltruck.com/01_misc_pic/shows/Livermore%20Car%20Show%209-26-10/70'%20Chevelle%20ProCharged%2001.JPG


http://www.norcaltruck.com/01_misc_pic/shows/Livermore%20Car%20Show%209-26-10/70'%20Chevelle%20ProCharged%2003.JPG

http://www.norcaltruck.com/01_misc_pic/shows/Livermore%20Car%20Show%209-26-10/70'%20Chevelle%20ProCharged%2004.JPG

ProCharged BBC :wow: :drool:


Maybe do a stroked 454, low comp and a ProCharger. Still waiting to take a ride in a local guys Camaro that is pretty similar, think his is a 468ci with ProCharger.


Am I smokin crack here or you guys think this ProCharger stroked 454 is the wrong direction?

[Flash68]

i just bought a shafiroff racing saturday night special 540 800 hp on pump gas...wasn't cheap but what a brute. i will sell you the 502/502 that im pulling out of the car, complete turn key engine with less than 12k miles, starter, headers, ign., carb to pan. port the heads install a little bigger cam and your good to go...

You should read the whole thread (specifically, the post right above yours). He already bought a 454.