best electric garage htr [Archive]

GregWeld

11-25-2009, 10:06 AM

I have a 1500 sq ft shop with 21 foot ceiling peak... and use my fluorescent lights for heating... but if it really drops in temp like down to 30 degrees or so I will add a rather smallish 220V electric heater I bought at Grainger.

It wasn't "cheap" as in Taiwan built stuff they sell at Home Depot etc - so is more "industrial" - but I didn't want to risk burning my shed down either...

Here's a link to the one I bought.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3VU36?Pid=search

GregWeld

11-25-2009, 10:07 AM

Of course after I posted this I went back to Grainger to read the specs on the heater I have -- and where is it made?? CHINA

Damn I hate that!! But it is a well built heater and has worked for 5 years now!

:rofl:

youthpastor

11-25-2009, 10:16 AM

i use a cadet made for the garage, works great- called the Hot One

69MyWay

11-25-2009, 12:12 PM

Hey...going through this now. Moved to Illinois in March from Florida and this will be my first full winter here. I have a detached workshop (24x30) that is now insulated and drywalled with insulated doors. We added a half bath and I want to make sure an protect the plumbing - as well as keep the edge off when I'm working out there.

I have R13 in the walls and R19 in the ceiling.

Anyway - my electric panel is FULL - and no room to add another 220. Yes...I can, but I would have to be very careful to make sure the lift and compressor isn't going when the heat is on...etc.

I also do NOT have LP or natural gas...so that leaves me looking electric.

I just bought a Iheater - Quartz Infrared. It plugs into 110 and has a digital T-stat. I read good and bad about these things - this one has a 30 day money back (less shipping) return policy if not satisfied. I am hoping I can set it a the low setting to keep it above freezing. I have a portable propane daisy bud heater that I can light up and bring it up to temp fast - but this will keep it regulated. Per my UPS tracking - it should be here today - so I'll know soon. Also - they do this for $350 including shipping if you call them for a discount code.

http://www.discounthomefurnishings.com/product_info.php?cPath=363&products_id=1112

http://www.discounthomefurnishings.com/images/IH-1500Black.jpg

rwhite692

11-26-2009, 11:44 AM

Unless you will only be heating occasionally, I would seriously look into getting an LP tank outside your shop and going with a gas heater. The operating cost for electric heater could be outrageously high, depending on the $/KWh where you live.

69MyWay

11-26-2009, 01:54 PM

I am running the first full overnight test tonight.

Had it out in the shop today and supplemented it with the propane portable to boost it up.

It is running alone now, and the temp is falling a bit from where it was with the supplemental heat - but the temp outside is falling too.

Will be about 29 tonight - will take measurements tonight and in the morning.

The claim to fame of these things is they don't draw the kind of current other electric heaters do - but running the lamp heating the coils...then blowing air over them, it is a steady gentle heat - not good for heating a room up quick.

My goal is to avoid frozen pipes - so we'll see.

GregWeld

11-26-2009, 02:59 PM

Hope it works out for you... but it is a law of "something" - like physics - that it simply takes "X" amount of BTU's to heat "X" space to "X" temp and hold it there... and electric heaters are generally rated in WATTS -- and Electricity is all about voltage and amperage which can only create so many watts - regardless of the style of "heater". Most of the 115V electrics are only about 1500 watts... and that's just not very much "heat".

The reason I said to leave the lights on 24/7 - is in order to get the surrounding equipment - tool boxes - cars etc warmed up - then they act like heat sinks. If all that stuff is cold - then it will take a huge amount of heat/wattage etc to get them to not be like ice in a drink.

If you're all electric - it will cost you "X" amount to heat your shop - regardless of whether it's one heater - or a heater and lights - or your heater and your welder running... WHAT runs up the bill - is heating it to a certain temperature and not being able to keep that heat "in".

I have a couple of "infrared" heaters outside under the covered patio... infrared works by heating OBJECTS rather than blowing warm air etc... They work well on people because we're objects and therefore "FEEL" the heat they put out. The ones I have are 10 amp 120V - but then are rated at 1200 watts (amps times voltage ='s wattage). This would work really well in a shop situation because the infrared heat could then be directed at larger metal objects which would then try to hold the heat... but even that won't "work" if you have too much heat loss in the building. It might, however, keep your pipes from freezing if you aimed the light/heater at them?

The fluorescent lights I use in the shed are High Output T12 versions rated at 110W per bulb - and use two bulbs per fixture. So each fixture is 220 watts - but I'm running 16 of these in the shed... so have 3520 WATTS OF HEAT running 24/7 in the winter. I also leave a big stereo amp running - and that's a little more heat even if it's a 100W's... every little bit helps.

My walls are 6" thick - and have high density R19 bats - and then I covered that with 5/8" plywood... so more "r" value... and the whole thing never has gotten cold - so the tool boxes and all that are nice and toasty (mid 60's at least)... and the doors are insulated as well.
:cheers: :woot:

GregWeld

11-26-2009, 03:23 PM

I just went out to the shed and thought I'd measure the toolbox temps with my handy dandy little infrared - they're all 71 degrees! I was shocked... I figured they'd be low to mid 60's. The big 1/2" metal table from hell was higher at 74 degrees - but that is because it's closer to the overhead lights in that lowered ceiling area (the boys room is above it so that machine area has an 8' ceiling whereas the rest of the shop is 20+).

What I've found out about having everything "warm" in the winter - and not having any heat source except the lights - is that when I open the big doors - the air temp drops - but once I close 'em back up everything is toasty again in a hurry. The doors get opened if I'm moving a car in or out - or something else that needs to come in through the big doors... but I don't leave them open any more than required!

69MyWay

11-27-2009, 07:27 AM

I believe I am satisfied.

It was in the mid 20s here last night - ice on the ground this morning. I put a thermometer on the sink counter top next to the largest window in the shop. It is reading 55.9 degrees right now. The heater is over 20' from this location.

Of course, we'll have to see the electric bill. It is a 1500 watt appliance.

The cord, plug, and housing are all cool to the touch, so I am also satisfied it isn't pulling very much current through either.

When we get into the super cold stuff, I'll move it closer to the sink and toilet area and let it radiate off them.

Right now it is facing the car on the lift - and like Greg was stating - the surface temp on the facing side of the car is noticeable to the touch warmer - so it then acts as a radiant too. Pretty cool.

69MyWay

11-27-2009, 07:31 AM

Here is what it looks like sitting out there - it is on wheels so it it easy to move.

vstol

11-27-2009, 07:52 AM

scherp69

11-27-2009, 10:51 AM

I have the same 220 heater that Greg has as well as a second heavy duty 220 construction heater (a Home Depot one). My shop is a little bigger than a two car garage. I ran two 220 plugs in the shop, one at either end. I only use them when I want to take the edge off in the shop. One of the days I was out there, it was 0 Celsius so about 32 F. I have a thermometer in the shop and I got it up to about 17 C so 63 F using both heaters. I was wearing a t-shirt in the shop in the winter...it was nice. I usually don't head out when it get past -10C or 14F. I found this was the cheapest route and I can put the heaters close to where I'm working and it warms it up quite nicely. Being in Canada it gets a little too cold to head out to the shop, but this set up works for me.

69MyWay

11-27-2009, 02:09 PM

Thanks for the inputs, I will use it only when I am out in the garage and like many of you I have the torpedo htr that heats the place up quickly except its so damn loud and does not have a thermo stat other than me to shut it off. Either way the htr that I go with needs to have a pretty good blower so it can heat the garage up quickly

If all you want is quick heating, then the daisy bud heads you can pick up for a 25 lb propane tank would do the trick. They don't make a whole lot of noise (hiss sound mostly) and put out plenty of heat - cheap - when you want it.

You don't want to leave them unattended, or overnight - but for taking the edge off and running the temp up, you can't beat them.

Nothing to plug in, nothing to maintain - just a full bottle of LP and you are good to go.

BRIAN

11-27-2009, 02:23 PM

I run electric heaters in my garage which is 30 x20 something. They do not waste that much as everybody claims. Propane is not that cheap.

I have a cheap 220 barrel one like from Grainger at it gets the place warm to the point where no jacket is needed and within 1/2 hour.

I couldn't leave good enough alone and bought a $500 Dayton larger unit. IT SUCKS!! The biggest problem is it has a thermostat that won't allow the unit to stay on until the room reaches a certain temp. It takes forever to create heat. I have no idea why they use such a system as you are sitting there freezing and hearing that thing shutting down every two minutes. After about 2hrs it does heat very well. I use the cheapo to get it going than switch over.

I am all into buying USA but those Chinese sure know something about heat. Sometimes I warm up some hot dogs on top of it to feel more patriotic.

69MyWay

11-27-2009, 02:38 PM

Brian,

Do you have any links or pictures of these heaters????

wedged

11-28-2009, 03:38 PM

This place has a nice selection of all sorts of things good to use in a shop :
Tek Supply (http://www.teksupply.com/farm/supplies/home)

GregWeld

11-28-2009, 03:41 PM

GregWeld

11-28-2009, 04:00 PM

I was going to suggest to some here that have 220V 50 amp or so circuit in their shops - that they can get an electric hot water tank - a circulation pump - and a couple of "radiators" and build a simple closed loop hot water heat system in the shop. The tank doesn't take up much floor space - and some simple PEX or copper tubing and you could have some nice radiant heat.

When looking up some heat specs -- I found this INTERESTING table of BTU's required BY AREA... this is for heating a HOUSE - and calculates heat loss etc - but what I thought was interesting was the DIFFERENCE between areas of the country - and explains why I can keep my shop toasty warm just using my lighting (I live in the Pacific Northwest).

Rules of Thumb for Regions of the Country

New England, Upper Midwest, or Southern Ontario: 40 BTUH per square foot of floor area

New York City to Philadelphia: 40 BTUH

Philadelphia to Washington, DC: 35 BTUH

Seattle to Portland: 25 BTUH

69MyWay

12-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Update...

last night we were around 7 degrees F...and were up to 10 below with the windchill.

Ran the Iheater (just keep the stat on 60).

This morning it was 44 in the garage. Not bad considering the swing - it will be in the teens all day and below zero with the wind getting into the 20s on Friday.

Now we will wait for the electric bill to see what happens there.

I'm also putting a 75 watt bulb under the sink cabinet and in the toilet room to add some extra insurance from freezing.

GregWeld

12-10-2009, 12:08 PM

I won't be home until tomorrow night - in Hawaii now - but it's been down in the teens for temps at home. As soon as I land - I'm going to take the digital infrared temps of the tool boxes... will be interesting to see how that temp has held up with the big drop for over a week. Nobody has been there so the doors have all been closed etc. I did leave all the lights on so will be an interesting "test". The tool boxes measured 71 degrees a couple weeks ago - but the outside temps then were in the low 50's at night and mid 50's during the day.

GregWeld

12-11-2009, 09:21 PM

OKAY - it's been 20's for more than a week... just got home and measured the tool box temps - 60 degrees right on the nose... Not a bad drop in temps for a week of 20 degree temps outside... and only lights for heat. If it stays cold - I'll kick in the 220v heater.

waynieZ

12-11-2009, 09:35 PM

Greg I don't know if you posted it but what insulation do you have in your shed?

GregWeld

12-11-2009, 09:40 PM

Wayne -- Don't have a name for it - but it was called High Density Bats... and the walls are 6" thick -- and the walls are packed full! Let me post a pic here - back in a couple - have to transfer the pic to the Photobucket and then post up here...

GregWeld

12-11-2009, 09:49 PM

This was when they were putting it in... I don't think there is "paper" on any of it.. it's just big soft bats of this fiber stuff...

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/Insulation007.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/Insulation012.jpg

When they finished the ceiling - they stapled white plastic on the "inside" of the purlins... to keep the moisture from rising up and condensing on the inside of the metal roofing. I covered the interior walls with 5/8" plywood to the 14' mark...

GregWeld

12-11-2009, 09:59 PM

TWO important parts of the insulation ----- it's WAY warmer in the winter -- and WAY WAY cooler in the summer (leave the doors shut!)... Can't imagine what it would be like out there in the summer without the insulation... and no way would I be out there ENJOYING MYSELF in the winter without it! So as thing go - IMHO - the insulation "made" the shop.

deuce_454

12-12-2009, 08:02 AM

insulation insulation.... i have (im sorry to admit) a used engine oil powered stove... it gives off a nice dry heat as all the smoke goes thru the chimny...

ill take measurements and send post pics if anyone is interested in building one... it is very low tech.. but works great, and its cheap to run...and it could be made in a day by anyone with a welder and a powerdrill...

waynieZ

12-12-2009, 12:29 PM

The 6" give you a nice continous run of insulation.
When I finnally get started on my garage, I'm going to use 2x6 for the walls like I did in the house. I would like to get spray foam insulation but its expensive.

OOCustoms

12-13-2009, 02:31 AM

heres what i bought. I went electric because i hate breathing in fumes while my shop is closed up. Just for example on its ability. My shop is 2600 sq. ft with 20 foot ceilings and no insulation. At about 40-50 degrees here in the bay area it will take the nip out of the air in about 30 min. Im positive it would make a shop 1000 sq ft or so really toasty in not time and its not very loud which is nice too. they are pricey new but i got mine on craigslist for a couple hundred bucks used and it works great!

http://www.everyspaceheater.com/Fostoria-FES-1024-1CA-FRO1005.html

GregWeld

12-13-2009, 09:32 AM

crazycarl

12-17-2009, 03:59 PM

insulation insulation.... i have (im sorry to admit) a used engine oil powered stove... it gives off a nice dry heat as all the smoke goes thru the chimny...

I take it the American EPA doesn't visit Denmark very often. You could never get away with that in California. Maybe Montana or North Dakota.

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 06:10 PM

I take it the American EPA doesn't visit Denmark very often. You could never get away with that in California. Maybe Montana or North Dakota.

:rofl: I laughed to myself when I read that as well... you'd have the FBI - the CIA - the EPA - the DEA and every other "A" the government could muster beating down your door and hauling you straight off to prison! Meanwhile "we" (the Navy etc) are still painting our fleet with lead based bottom paint -- cause they're "exempt" (well... that, and it's a far better product!)... :rofl: :woot:

BRIAN

12-17-2009, 08:54 PM

Ok My Dayton is killing me with the on/off deal every few seconds until it gets to temp. My small barrel style actually started smoking and for nothing but good luck I was there to pull the plug. Somehow one of the wires shorted internally right after the wires go into the case. It worked great. It does not have a name brand on it? Then again I would have looked a little harder if my place burnt down.

Greg I reread your post, are you saying you are heating your shop with just the lights??? I have about 12-14 going all day and do not see that kind of heat?? They are a mix of 90 and 100watt I believe. I forget which models. They are straight from the depot. Maybe I should leave them on 24hrs?? It is about 30-40 here and I haven't seen my balls in a couple days.

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 10:10 PM

Brian -- :rofl: Sorry to hear about your lost balls... you'll find 'em again come spring...

Yes -- I heat the shop with just the fluorescent lights... they are High Output T12's - 120w per bulb - two per fixture - 16 fixtures... on 24/7 once the weather gets cold enough to need it.

Now -- it was down to 20 degrees here all last week - so the shop (I was gone) dropped 10 degrees, down from 71 as measured with infrared on the tool boxes to 60. So I "added" some heat from my Grainger 220V 5000W heater - but have since turned that off now that it's climbed back to normal outside temps (like low 40's).

I have - what I would describe as MAJOR - insulation... and have been continually amazed at how cool it stays in summer - and how toasty in the winter. :cheers:

GregWeld

12-17-2009, 10:22 PM

Brian --

Just a thought --- for anyone reading the thread. Here's my "thoughts" on heating with my lights -- or any other source that is ELECTRIC.... It takes "X" amount of "wattage" to heat "X" amount of space... so whether it's all electric lights - or lights and electric heater - or an oven for that matter... it's going to cost the same to keep the "temp" you want the shop. SO I just leave the lights on 24/7. An electrician explained to me how to use - or not use - my thermostat when we installed the A/C in the house. He told me - "the thermostat is not a gas pedal"! Set it and forget it... it takes a lot of energy to pull the house down to the set temperature - because it has to pull heat out of the walls/floors/furniture etc... once that gets to the temp you've set - it takes less to pull the ambient air down... OKAY == that made sense to me. It's also why I just leave the lights on - because that way all the metal stuff in the shop is nice and "warm"... once it's all warm - it helps keep the shop warm... and the lights can heat the "air" instead of all the cold metal (think about A LOT of metal - car bodies - frames - tools - tool boxes - work table etc)....

deuce_454

12-18-2009, 05:48 AM

I take it the American EPA doesn't visit Denmark very often. You could never get away with that in California. Maybe Montana or North Dakota.

Denmark is worse!.... they will suspend by my eyelids and pull off my fingernails with red hot pliars if they find out....

in the meantime i have nice dry free heat... i have a neighboring shop actually delivering used engineoil in drums once or twice a year since hey can get rid of it without paying enviromental disposal fees.....

and its virtually smoke free once it gets up to temp.... the slagg left over is propably toxic though,

crazycarl

12-18-2009, 12:13 PM

Denmark is worse!.... they will suspend by my eyelids and pull off my fingernails with red hot pliars if they find out....
:faint:
and its virtually smoke free once it gets up to temp.... the slagg left over is propably toxic though,
:rofl: :rofl:

jjarky

12-20-2009, 06:42 PM

I recently purchased a Fostoria electric Salamander, wall mount. It was 52000btu with an 800 cfm blower and 220 hardwire. Cost $720. Already sent it back, it sucked! Probably would have taken over an hour to heat my 20x30 when outside temps were in lower 30's. I was using a forced air kerosene 70000 btu that cost $200, it kicked butt, but was stinky and K1 kerosene cost $8 a gallon. Plus safety hazard for little ones. I'm going to natural gas. Anyone running a hanging natural gas forced air heater?

GregWeld

12-20-2009, 06:51 PM

JJ -- My shed is plumbed for Nat Gas but I haven't had to buy a heater - you know why if you've read the thread...

I was going to hang a Reznor and since my cousin is pres of a local heating oil company - I could get one reasonably. She advised me to go with the high efficiency version because then I could run the exhaust really easily. The new high efficiency versions basically just exhaust water vapors...

OOCustoms

12-22-2009, 04:47 PM

You don't need no stinkin' heat in Kaleephorneea........

LOL

Again - it's all about the BTU's -- and that one is rated at 34,000 of them... and draws 42 AMPS... it ought to heat something!!

EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAA
:cheers:

I dont need heat in cali?? hahahaha well Im in the bay area and like 2 weeks ago we were getting snow practically at 500 feet above see level. I'd take a midwest dry cold any day over our wet cold that we have being so close to the ocean. Two totally different types of cold. I really just wish my landlord would install insulation so my shop wouldnt follow the outside temps so easily!