Help with wiring new lights in my garage

[scherp69]

A few weeks ago, I decided to change my lights in my garage from single bulbs 100 watt bulbs to commercial fluorescent lights. Once they were hooked up, the lights worked fine. I then decided that I wanted to listen to some music and that is when all my issues started to happen. I had a new Sony ghetto blaster with an antenna and as soon as I turned it on, it was all static. In the end, I found out it was the fluorescent lights that was causing the problems. If I turned the lights off, my stereo got great reception, but as soon as I turned them on, static. I posted that issue on in another thread and got several suggestions. Get an inline RFI filter and plug it into the outlet that the stereo's plugged into, plug the stereo into a completely different circuit, make sure everything is grounded properly. Unfortunately none of these worked. This brought me to my newest issue....lights blow breaker.

My garage has never had the greatest lighting so I decided I was going to put in all new lighting. I went and got 6 fluorescent lights to add to the two commercial ones that I already have. I did the math and found that with a 20 amp breaker I would be able to handle 1920 watts, which is 80% load. The lights I am running are 32 watts a bulb and there are 16 bulbs giving me 512 watts....well under the 80% load and not a whole lot higher than the 400 watts I was running with the 4 single bulbs. I should be fine there.

Since the garage was built in the early 70's, I decided to replace all the wiring for the lights. I went into the attic and cut out all the old stuff. I then ran new 14/2 wire. I'm going to say that I ran "a wire" and by that I do mean the full 14/2 wire, not just 1 wire. Here's how I hooked it up. I ran 2 wires from the junction box with the incoming power. 1 wire went to a series of 4 lights and the other went to the other series of 4 lights. I put 4 lights on 1 switch and the other 4 on another switch. The power wire went from the junction box to the first light in one series, connected to the lights wiring, and then a new wire ran from the first light to the second light, a new wire from the second light to the third, and then a new wire from the third to the forth. So at the second and third lights I have 3 black wires (the wire to the light and the two new wires I ran) connected, 3 white wires and two ground wires. On the fourth light I only have 2 black and 2 white and 1 ground as that's where the series ends. Back to the first light (this is the exact same for both sides) I have the power wire, the wire to the switch, the wire connecting to light 2 and the light wiring. All the wires are connected using wire nuts and all blacks are connected to each other and all whites are connected to each other. I do not have any of the plugs in the garage hooked up to the outlets so it is all new wiring and just the lights.

When I went to turn the breaker on, the lights came on. As soon as I flicked the switch...the breaker blew. I went into turn it back on and it trips right away and I can hear a quick bzzz and it blows. The one thing that I can see that I may have hooked up wrong, but am not sure as this was how the original lights were hooked up, is the power wire. Can I run the power wires straight to the first light and then have a separate wire from the light to the switch or should I run the power wire to the switch and then go from there? Hopefully this all made sense. Basically I am trying to run 2 series of 4 lights off separates switches. Oh and back to my original issue, when the lights were on for that brief moment...my stereo lost its reception so I'm likely going to run a cable coax out to the garage and hook up an old amp.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I really want lights in my garage again. Thanks in advance.

[eville]

What's going on at the switch? Is your white and black hooked to the switch? If so, that's your problem. Is it hot to the switch or hot to the light?

for a 20A circuit, you should use 12/2. for a 15A you can use 14/3.

However, in this case, this is not your problem of the circuit blowing.

[scherp69]

Thanks Steve. Yeah I do have both black and white to the switch and realize now that the white shouldn't be hooked up. Will try that in the am and see what happens. Thanks for the help.

[awesometool]

That is correct you must us 12 not 14 for 20 amp. For lights you would use a switch leg. Run two separate wires to the fixture one from power and one from switch. The wire at the switch will be white and black attach both to switch. At the fixture attach the black power supply to the white wire going to the switch then attach the black wire coming from the switch to the black fixture wire. Attach the white wire from power supply to the white wire at fixture. When the switch is off the power to the fixture is completely off so if someone changes light if the future it is safer.

[nvr2fst]

Wow Mike, I see originally everything was grounded as I mentioned and still same BS. Now that you started over I drew your explanation in my head and ended up with a brain freeze which is probably way less of a headache than you have right now. I would definitely try rewiring per "awesometool's" post.
If that doesn't work you could buy some matches

[awesometool]

I like pictures better.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5205/switchleg.png

[scherp69]

Thanks guys...that will be an easy fix as I already have the wires running that way, I'll just need to switch the one white over and connect it to the black. From there, am I okay to run the next three lights in series?

With the 14 vs 12, my lights are the only thing that are on 14, I think all my outlets are on 12 (I will double check to make sure). If my outlets are still on 12, am I okay running the 14 to the lights??

[eville]

Technically, if you have 12ga wire, you should swap the breaker to a 15A.

[awesometool]

If you pull 20amps thru the 14 wire it will heat up and it is a great way to start fires. A 15amp outlet will not accept a 12 gauge wire in the back stab holes for this reason. The other fixtures can attach to the same wire as the first fixture. I have seen melted oulets with 20amp breaker-14/2 wire-15 amp outlets.

[GregWeld]

I like pictures better.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5205/switchleg.png



THIS DIAGRAM IS COMPLETELY INCORRECT!!! DO NOT WIRE YOUR SWITCH LIKE THIS!!!

The WHITE wire - should come from the panel to the switch BOX only and be junctioned there with the WHITE wire going to the LIGHT --- the SWITCH should have a BLACK wire from the panel to one screw (or push in) on the SWITCH with ANOTHER BLACK from the screw (or push in) to the LIGHT....

REMEMBER - You ONLY SWITCH ONE LEG OF ELECTRICITY!!

This diagram shows a WHITE CONNECTED TO A BLACK -- NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!

[awesometool]

THIS DIAGRAM IS COMPLETELY INCORRECT!!! DO NOT WIRE YOUR SWITCH LIKE THIS!!!

The WHITE wire - should come from the panel to the switch BOX only and be junctioned there with the WHITE wire going to the LIGHT --- the SWITCH should have a BLACK wire from the panel to one screw (or push in) on the SWITCH with ANOTHER BLACK from the screw (or push in) to the LIGHT....

REMEMBER - You ONLY SWITCH ONE LEG OF ELECTRICITY!!

This diagram shows a WHITE CONNECTED TO A BLACK -- NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!

Your switching the hot wire just like the diagram. Your way would use much more liner foot of 12/2. I have on average of two electrical inspections per week at my companies work sites and if we pull full power to the switch box it would not pass. Just do a search for "diagram of a switch leg" it never has a netrual wire at a switch. If you look at any new construction or remodel project it has one wire to the switch box.

[scherp69]

I finally got to go back in the shop to work on the lights. I ended up running the power wire straight to the switch, pigtailed the black power to the my two switches and connected the whites together. From there everything else was black to black and white to white connection. I then changed out the 20 amp breaker and put in a 15 amp and it was go time. I flicked the switches on and I have lights again!!! :D:clap: :D And it's way brighter in there now too!

It's strange though...I know now that 14 wire goes with a 15 amp breaker. I looked at all the wire I yanked out...it's all 14 wire and has been running on the 20 amp breaker for the entire time. Oh well...it's all good now.

Oh and as for the stereo...it was plugged into a separate circuit and playing away. As soon as I turned the lights on...static. Guess I'll be running cable into the shop :devil:

Thanks again for everyone input and advice. I really appreciate it.:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Wiring 101..... :>) Not hard when it's done "right" you got light!

http://www.electrical-online.com/images/power%20in%20to%20switch,%20out%20to%20light.gif


While there are "variations" of this basic switch wiring... this is what most home guys should stick with IMHO.... easy to figure it out when something doesn't go right... and anyone looking at it can see what's up.

GOOD JOB!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Garage Dog 65]

Never wire the hot line directly to the florescent fixture first. Hot should only run to the switch - and then the fixture - then to return. I've seen ballasts catch fire due to partial shorts that don't pop the breaker. Power should be off the fixture(s) when the switch is in the Off posn.

(I've seen people tap into an existing hot plug line in the ceiling {Ex: GD opener} - then drop a switch leg down the wall to the switch. That leaves the circuit hot all the time. Easy - but dangerous IMO)

Jim

[GregWeld]

Electricity makes a CIRCUIT -- when you switch one leg of that circuit OFF - there in no more circuit... whether it was hot or not.... one line of electricity doesn't make electricity...

[Garage Dog 65]

Talking about chassis shorts or partial shorts to neutral. If it happened when the circuit was energized - at least you'd be in the room when it smoked.

[GregWeld]

RIGHT!!

Tell you what --- I wired my shop myself... with the "over look" from my buddy who's an electrician. At the time - I would have had to wait 6 weeks to get him here - so he said -- "just do it yourself" and I'll stop on my way home to make sure you're doing it right...

Well --- I had to tear some of it out. He said that the BEGINNING of each outlet run - had to be started with a GFCI - because with a CONCRETE FLOOR - it could transport ground through moisture in the concrete... and I could be working with a tool and place my hand down on the floor and complete the circuit... SO THAT WAS GOOD ADVICE. A GFCI would immediately sense the short and trip... but a circuit breaker would just fry me first.... :>)

The other funny thing I did - when pulling the 220 circuits - I was pulling THREE wires - black / white / green... he started laughing at me - cause I was moaning about how much work it was to pull those three big wires through the conduit... I was pulling a GROUND and of course I didn't need to since the conduit is the ground. As long as I didn't go more than 6 feet with any "flex"... over 6 feet with flexible (like the jump between the wall and the lift) I didn't need a separate ground wire. DOH!

I was tempted to run GFCI circuit breakers - but he told me just to do the GFCI outlets at the beginning of any run - or if I ran a single outlet circuit to just use the GFCI type. That was easy.

The best part was he let me use his account at the big electrical supply house so I could get all the stuff I wanted - and I could get really heavy duty outlets etc. I didn't want to use the 99 cent versions from Home Depot...

[Garage Dog 65]

[QUOTE=GregWeld;250331]The best part was he let me use his account at the big electrical supply house[QUOTE]

That's just not fair !

:lol:

[GregWeld]

[QUOTE=GregWeld;250331]The best part was he let me use his account at the big electrical supply houseQUOTE]

That's just not fair !

:lol:

I know Jim!! Trust me - I was like a kid in a candy store... Got nice commercial 8' fixtures instead of the Home Depot versions - they were A LOT more - but it's unbelievable how much better they are. The ballast must be three times the size - and the sheet metal alone is twice the gauge....

Then they had all these way kool little metal "hammer on" beam clamps! I could get a beam clamp (never heard of one before I started on this project) for just about anything I wanted to do! Since I wanted my electrical "exposed" - I could just get a beam clamp that would hold the conduit... no holes to drill - just pound 'em on and done! Got beam clamps that had holes to hang the fluorescent fixtures from ... just snake an S hook in there and some chain - done. Got chain on a spool... that was pretty easy... Plus - since the guys at the shop eventually found out I was building a "hot rod shop" -- they all became very helpful!


Don't know if you can see it in this picture - but the flex stuff I used for the garage door openers etc - is all just run along the metal roof joists using these way cool little beam clamps!

Just ignore the Wayne Due clip hanging there....


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Shop%20Pix/DSC_4102.jpg

[rwhite692]

Greg what are your plans for that WD clip?

I have another 69 sitting in my side yard that needs one, heck I should be ready for that car in around 8 years.

if you ever decide to part with it, you better let me know!!

Also, +1 on the "real" (ie, Commercial) flourescent fixtures with the good (meaning, long lasting, low EMI, fast-starting) ballasts. 8ft 4lamp T8, with 1 ballast per fixture, <10% THD.

I bought a total of sixteen Lithonia fixtures (not cheap!) for my 24x36 detached garage.

There will be four rows of fixtures running the shop lengthwise continuous end-to-end.

I just spent the last three days texturing/priming/painting the ceiling (vaulted) and hopefully will get the fixtures put up this weekend.

[GregWeld]

Rob -- that's an old photo.... I was trying to find one that would show the "beam clamps" but that was about the best one I had so used it. The WD clip is long gone! Sold it to some guy in California - even delivered it FREE to him! LOL

I was going to use it in my 69 Camaro Convertbile -- but decided that EVERYONE has one of these belly button cars... :lol: and since I already had the Nomad - I decided that I wanted a "hot rod" -- so switched plans to the '37 Ford. I already have the new chassis for that build.

BTW -- Buying good quality "infrastructure" is what I was discussing in another thread -- LIGHTS are something you're not likely to want to take down to replace with "better ones" sometime down the road -- so might as well invest in the ones that will do the job for many years "NOW" rather than later. Good wiring - good commercial quality outlets - insulation so you can work in "the shed" summer or winter.... those things are important to build in when you're building - so that you can just have fun out their doing car stuff when you're done "building". :thumbsup: