What do I do with this 73 Mach 1 Q code project car?

[CadVetteStang]

It looks like my bartering deal is going through after a full year of trying to get this car. I wanted a 71 or 72 with disc brakes or a 73 wit a 71or72 front cap. This is a 73 with disc and a combo 71, 72 front cap….. Just what the doctor ordered, right? I’m no sure now…. I mean it is just what I wanted, a car that does not need floor boards…. A non-original car made from a few wrecked cars… Something that I could turn into a Cadillac 500 powered pro-touring/autocross and daily driver (eventually with C 4 corvette suspension) without feeling guilty about modifying a hard to find to classic….. But, I’ve been thinking…. According to the title, it’s a Q code Mach 1….. Now, inspecting it, it looks to me like maybe the Q code Mach was one of the donors and the unibody may have originally been a 72 or 73 plane Jane fastback – but I’m not sure. So, am I getting a car that is worth something or not?

I had planned to let a vo tech school de-rust and prep – possibly even paint the body while I gathered the parts for the Caddy 500 build up and saved for the TH200-4R tranny. I had planned to the Cad-Stang phase as a bolt in with brackets so that if someone wanted to buy the restored car, I could sell it undamaged without the engine and tranny. However, I sub frame connectors and a cage is a must or the engine would twist the body hard enough to break the front and back glass – so it would have to have weld in mods….. Also, for this thing to handle the way I want it to in the budget I can afford, I would eventually turn it into another Cad-Vette-Stang project. The C4 Vette front suspension swap would require cutting and welding to get the Corvette front K frame/crossmember under the car. From there it would be at the point of no return as far as a Ford enthusiast would be concerned because the unibody would be permanently altered in a non-Ford compatible way.

So if – as I suspect- the Q code car was just a donor, do I have a low value toy on my hands that I can build into a dirt cheap super car, or do I have a junk yard gem that will bring good money if I leave this 460 powered Ford alone and sell it. What value am I talking here – as is, and/or with good paint?

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach13quarterft.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1side.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1back.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1leftfront.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1frontfstbkgrille.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1rightftenginebay460.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1460toradiatorclearance.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1460enginebayft.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1460tofirewallclearance.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1rightside460tofirewallcleara.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1leftsideoilfilter.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1frontsumppanandswaybar.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1driverssideint2.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1intdriversside.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm22/CandlelightPictures/73%20Mach%201%20Q%20code/73Mach1intdriversside2.jpg

Would you race it or restore it? If it is worth enough, I can trade it for a C4 Vette project car and get 3 times the cornering ability, but the Mach 1 is soooooo much better looking…… What to do….. What to do……

Your opinion?

Cody

[70rs]

If it is a combo of years and not original right now just build it the way you want. The value is only what someone else is willing to pay for it. How much would it sell for right now? How much would it cost you to restore to a point where it was a collector quality car? You will never get out of it what you sink in it. Build what you want and be happy.

Personally I would rebuild what is there, stick a manual trans in it and drive it. Keep the Ford drivetrain in it. (that will help the value down the road no matter what.) The Caddy motor and GM trans will not do you any favors in the value department. And you can get a HUGE amount of torque out of that Ford motor that's already in it.

It's your car, build it your way and have fun.:cheers:


EDIT: I had more thoughts. I am wondering why you want to put the 500 motor in it? Is it the "dare to be different" factor or is there some performance you hope to get out of it that a big block ford will not produce? And the C4 suspension. It was designed for the corvette. The balance, weight, dimensions (and needed modifications to fit it) are way different than that Mustang could ever use. My point is that yes, the suspension is a decent one. But only in the right application. That Mustang is not the right application. Then add a 500cid Caddy motor on top of it and you make all the problems even worse.
My thoughts are just that, thoughts. I may be wrong and maybe you are onto something i am unaware of. But it would seem to me that using the Cad motor and vette suspension is a very expensive and time consuming operation with a worse handling car that has an even lower market value in the end. In other words you are wasting your time and money and not getting any performance or financial gain by doing it.
That car will handle better, stop better and just perform better with modifications to the stock drivetrain and suspension. It will be worth more in the end too just in case you ever hope to sell it.

Just my opinion.:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Funny question really...

In boating - we always tell a guy - to find out if you're a "boater" -- put on a slicker and boots - stand in your shower with the water running cold - every 30 minutes flush $100 down the toilet - if you can do that for 24 hours... THEN you're a boater.

Like Eric (70rs) said -- build it any way you want! It's your 100 grand.


:hail: :hail: :faint:

[CadVetteStang]

If it is a combo of years and not original right now just build it the way you want. The value is only what someone else is willing to pay for it. How much would it sell for right now? How much would it cost you to restore to a point where it was a collector quality car? You will never get out of it what you sink in it. Build what you want and be happy.

Personally I would rebuild what is there, stick a manual trans in it and drive it. Keep the Ford drivetrain in it. (that will help the value down the road no matter what.) The Caddy motor and GM trans will not do you any favors in the value department. And you can get a HUGE amount of torque out of that Ford motor that's already in it.

It's your car, build it your way and have fun.:cheers:


EDIT: I had more thoughts. I am wondering why you want to put the 500 motor in it? Is it the "dare to be different" factor or is there some performance you hope to get out of it that a big block ford will not produce? And the C4 suspension. It was designed for the corvette. The balance, weight, dimensions (and needed modifications to fit it) are way different than that Mustang could ever use. My point is that yes, the suspension is a decent one. But only in the right application. That Mustang is not the right application. Then add a 500cid Caddy motor on top of it and you make all the problems even worse.
My thoughts are just that, thoughts. I may be wrong and maybe you are onto something i am unaware of. But it would seem to me that using the Cad motor and vette suspension is a very expensive and time consuming operation with a worse handling car that has an even lower market value in the end. In other words you are wasting your time and money and not getting any performance or financial gain by doing it.
That car will handle better, stop better and just perform better with modifications to the stock drivetrain and suspension. It will be worth more in the end too just in case you ever hope to sell it.

Just my opinion.:cheers:

The Caddy 500 would only add 25 pounds to the weight of a 351C car (or 30 pounds to a 350 Chevy car) The loss of the AC compressor would make up for that difference. The Caddy 500 gives you the acceleration of the big block with the cornering, stopping, and MPGs of the small block. A bone stock Caddy 500 makes the torque of a 460 or Chevy 454 that has $1,000 or more of added parts. Don’t feel bad about having all of that miss information about the Caddy 500 engine. Even though it was designed by the man who designed the 460, pulling this 460 out and putting the Cadyy 500 in would reduce the weight by 120 lbs.

This would not be the only Caddy 500 powered 71-73 Mustang that has ever been built. I had a 72 Fastback that was stolen before the project was completed. It only had a 302 in it originally, and even though the 302 was a little lighter than the 500, we were able to move the 500 back in the engine compartment enough that the 500 powered Mustang sat 1.5” higher in front than it did with the 302. We had to cut the springs to get it to come back down.

Setting the 500 back all the way to the firewall places the front of the engine in almost exactly the same place relative to the ball joints as where the 350 sits in the C4 Vette relative to the ball joints. So the engine weight (being equaled by the removal of the AC compressor) would be balanced the same as in the Vette.

Before it had a 302, my 72 was originally a 351C powered car with Power steering and AC. It weighed 2980 lbs. (approximately 200 lbs. lighter than the C4).

The torque of the 500 Caddy requires a cage and sub frame connectors to prevent breakage of the front and back glass. The weight of the cage should add about 100 to 125 lbs close to the rear wheels. Also, the battery will be moved to the trunk like it was in my last Cad-Stang project. That would move 45 lbs. from the front to the back. All in all, the weight of the car should be equal to or slightly less than that of a C4 Vette and the weight distribution should very close.

The Mustang does have a longer wheel base, however, and if the steering circle is effected by the geometry of where the tie rod ends attach, then I can swap to C5 spindles because of the very similar wheel base between the two.

In the end, the racing weigh difference and balance between this Mustang powered by a Caddy 500 with C4 suspension Vs. a stock C4 vette should be no more than the difference between two C4 Vettes – one being driven by a skinny man and the other being driven by a slightly over weight driver. The design of the car has come from over 2 years of careful research and planning (also cost cutting alternatives).

Cody

[CadVetteStang]

Like Eric (70rs) said -- build it any way you want! It's your 100 grand.


100 grand??? I’m getting the car as a finder’s fee for negotiating deals on other cars, so it is free. A welding school instructor will instal the $125 cage for free.
A vo-tech school will strip and paint the car for free labor plus cost of paint.
I have the $99 Caddy motor in my garage and it will get a $1,000 overhaul.
I found a rebuild shop that sells a TH200-4R capable of handling 700 HP for $940 (and I get a 1 year warranty with it).
I have the $550 wheels picked out
Tires will run another $500
C4 Vette suspension will cost $650 if I hold out for HD 13” brakes and Z51 pkg.
Labor for install of suspension will be less than $1,000

This is a $5000 car project minus interior work. It has good door panels, but needs seats, carpet, a headliner and belts, so we are talking 6 grand, not 100 grand.

Even if it takes 50% more money, I still finish it for 10 grand.

[67rstbkt]

100 grand??? I’m getting the car as a finder’s fee for negotiating deals on other cars, so it is free. A welding school instructor will instal the $125 cage for free.
A vo-tech school will strip and paint the car for free labor plus cost of paint.
I have the $99 Caddy motor in my garage and it will get a $1,000 overhaul.
I found a rebuild shop that sells a TH200-4R capable of handling 700 HP for $940 (and I get a 1 year warranty with it).
I have the $550 wheels picked out
Tires will run another $500
C4 Vette suspension will cost $650 if I hold out for HD 13” brakes and Z51 pkg.
Labor for install of suspension will be less than $1,000

This is a $5000 car project minus interior work. It has good door panels, but needs seats, carpet, a headliner and belts, so we are talking 6 grand, not 100 grand.

Even if it takes 50% more money, I still finish it for 10 grand.

Yea, that' what I told myself when I started my project :lol: I hope your budget works out :thumbsup:

[70rs]

Thanks for all the info on the Cad motor and the wieght issue/questions.

I have to say, if you can get this operational and still stay anywhere near the 10k mark then go for it. Why not? A low dollar, unique and decent performing vehicle. Sounds like a good plan.
So get to work and post lot's of pics!!:thumbsup:

[Modmach1]

Build it just the way you want it, i say :)

The 71-73s has lots of potensial

Thats what i did, and this is what i ended up with:

http://www.moldestuket.com/shownshine09off169.JPG

[GregWeld]

Well -- all I have to say is -- go for it.

If you can build a car for 5 grand.... you my friend - are the master Jedi of car builds!!


:lateral: :cheers: :woot:

[BallnRods]

Go for it!
It's good to see more people building these BIG Mustangs.

Keep us informed on the build, I'll be following your progress.

[redfire69]

I'd look for another better or donor car (maybe a coupe). It looks like you'll be into every panel on that car. Go for it!

[Blue70]

Build it, or give it to me and I will damn it :thumbsup:

[BLACKJACK]

go for it...:yes:this is a little older but!!!

[65 347]

Build it. These are not my favorite mustangs, but there is a ton of room for a 4.6 mod motor and you can use larger wheels with out it looking out of place. I have a '65 and can only fit 17'' wheels.
Good Luck!