Optima Batteries wants your input

[David Pozzi]

I've been chosen by Optima Batteries to attend SEMA this year as their guest! While there I will attend an educational seminar on their products, plus participate in an advisory conference of internet forum members from a wide range of automotive interests. They want to know what problems you are having with their products or service, and how they can do better.

After a brief review of our Electrical section archives, I've seen many posts about how to recharge a dead Optima battery, and some reports of battery life too short, also charging system or battery drain issues.

My task will be to report these issues to Optima so they can improve their products, and also to bring back to you more tech on how to properly maintain and charge them.

The Optima guys are our kind of people and are investing a lot this year to hear feedback from us, plus if there is anything special you want me to report on or photograph from SEMA (not just batteries) please include it in this thread. I have to say, their heart is in the right place on this, and they just want to get input and do better.
Thanks, David

[camcojb]

I love their products and use them in all my toys.:thumbsup: However, I've never had much luck with the red top batteries, so I'm wondering if they've come up with any ideas on those. I know I'm on many car boards, and that one battery is a common theme as far as short life. I just replaced one in the Chevelle, went with a yellow top. I have the charger for those batteries, but it never seems to bring the red ones back.

Jody

[Vegas69]

I've been running the red top for about a year and a half. I find that it must be on a battery tender or it goes flat pretty fast compared to other toys. It seems to have plenty of juice when I go to start it after a drive.

[Rybar]

I have a red top as well that needs to be on a trickle charger if I don't use the car for a week or so, so it's on the charger steady when It's at home not being driven.

[GregWeld]

I've got Optima YELLOW tops in 3 cars... and run the CTEK (7000) chargers / maintainers - which have a specific setting for these type (AGM) batteries.

I love 'em!

Even the YELLOW top version "drain" quickly if not on the maintainers. At least at my house they do anyway.

[camaro2nv]

Ive just never had any luck with them. I had the yellow one in a show car and truck and it was always dead within a week.

[MtotheIKEo]

I've had great luck with Yellows, the one in my DD has been going strong for 5+ years. I've completely drained it multiple times and it always comes back to life. The Reds have been hit or miss me.

[Vegas69]

Seems to me that it may be the lack of use that kills them. I would be interested to see how many of the folks that have had bad luck kept them on a trickle charger. Optima may need to advise their customers to do just that......

[rwhite692]

I too had an early life failure on the one and only Optima (red top) I have ever owned. (2004 time frame). It only lasted about 8 months. Place I bought it from wouldn't replace it and that was that...When the car was sitting, It was always on a battery maintainer that was designed for AGM batteries.

My message / feedback to Optima would be that they really should acknowledge the abnormally high failure rate on the red top and publish a tech bulletin that outlines the various reasons why early life failures were so rampant (surely they have done some failure analysis and production analysis, and know very well what the main deficiencies were (or are)).

They need to get the word out on what they have done (or are doing) to work on the problems and improve the product since then.

I will be using another optima (probably the yellow top) in my current project, since I am set up with a trunk mount setup w/optima battery hold-down.

But I'd really like to have good reason (data) to have more confidence in the product. I certainly don't go out of my way to recommend Optima batteries to people, for general-use applications.

I think it's fair to say that most of us use them in our (hobby) cars because of the fact that they don't discharge fluids...and some folks take advantage of the mounting flexibility....that's about it.

[Speedster]

I have a Red Top and if it sits for any length of time without a pretty continuous "maintenance" charge it discharges quite a bit.

[elitecustombody]

I've had my blue top for nearly 6 years,still cranks like new,no trickle or any kind of chargers,I simply disconnect the positive terminal if I'm not planning on driving for a week

they need to come out with few different styles of battery holders

[Stuart Adams]

First I want to thank optima for all they do in this arena. I have had all colors and they are crappy at holding a charge. EVERY color I've used from my cars to my motorhome has the same issues. Every other vehicle I own without an optima battery has no issues.

I hope they can address these issues as they seem common no matter what the climate is we live in. Thanks.

[lil427z]

First I want to thank optima for all they do in this arena. I have had all colors and they are crappy at holding a charge. EVERY color I've used from my cars to my motorhome has the same issues. Every other vehicle I own without an optima battery has no issues.

I hope they can address these issues as they seem common no matter what the climate is we live in. Thanks.

x2 .
rick k

[ccracin]

First I want to thank optima for all they do in this arena. I have had all colors and they are crappy at holding a charge. EVERY color I've used from my cars to my motorhome has the same issues. Every other vehicle I own without an optima battery has no issues.

I hope they can address these issues as they seem common no matter what the climate is we live in. Thanks.

x3 In my opinion it is ridiculous to have to continuously charge or disconnect a battery if you aren't going to drive for as little as a week. I have no first hand experience. And after reading this I don't think I ever will until I hear more about problem resolution. I commend Optima for the support they give to events and such, but the product has to be good as well. I hope they will take what you learn David and put the wheels in motion. I'm sure you will do a good job for them.

:lateral:

[camcojb]

they're a great company with great management and marketing companies. If they can teach us how to take care of these batteries, or develop something to eliminate these issues that would be the best thing all around. I definitely want them to succeed.

Jody

[Vegas69]

My guess would it has to do with the chemicals involved to make it a sealed battery. Always a compromise in life fellas.:D I'd like to hear what they have to say.

[Musclerodz]

Disconnecting did not resolve our issues. Unless your driving one every day or keep it on a trickle charge, they die. Red top seem to be the worst. I went through 3 in 18 months before we finally gave up. Worst part is when they went completely dead, they would not take a charge and had to warranty them, and it is getting to the point no one wants to carry them due to the high warranty claims. I am glad they are finally stepping up to try and resolve some issues. :thumbsup:

[elitecustombody]

I forgot to add,I have used yellow top in couple other cars over the years and really never had any issues,a few times slow drain killed the battery,simple jump off and let the car run for 20-30 minutes and it's like new

[ccracin]

they're a great company with great management and marketing companies. If they can teach us how to take care of these batteries, or develop something to eliminate these issues that would be the best thing all around. I definitely want them to succeed.

Jody

I absolutely hope they succeed as well. I would like t support people that support our hobby. We have time on our project until we need a battery, hopefully this new effort will pay off by that time.

My guess would it has to do with the chemicals involved to make it a sealed battery. Always a compromise in life fellas.:D I'd like to hear what they have to say.

Agreed, but there are products out there that do not require such efforts to use. I think with David on the team, they are on the right track.

[Vegas69]

I was just on their website and they claim slower discharge than other batteries. :_paranoid

[GregWeld]

I'm with Jody on this one -- I'd like to see them build a better mouse trap - because they do "support us" -- and apparently do care about trying to make it better... otherwise they wouldn't ask for the input.

I will say -- the other day I was having the car serviced (BMW) at the dealership -- I noticed (apparently for the first time) that many models on the floor had "discreetly" been hooked up to tenders. I asked why -- and the salesman told me that if they don't do this the batteries die in about 3 days - BUT he added - it's only because people are getting in and out of them all day... without starting them etc. I would have to agree somewhat - since NONE of the cars on the lot had tenders... so it made sense.

[DFRESH]

David, I tried 3 red tops on the race car within a year, (sometimes it sits for up to 2 months without use.) Even with the charger going on them, I couldn't keep them alive. After the 3rd attempt, I changed to a 16 volt system and have had that battery for 3 years now--it's a pretty common thing to hear this from the guys at the track (drag), especially about the red tops, from my experience. Funny, when I think of performance batteries, I still think Optima, however I won't put one in my PT car now since it was a real issue for me and others within my circle of racing. Would be glad to go back to using their product since they are so supportive of this hobby/sport, however this paticular product needs to meet the expectations.

They can pick talent though, given your position--LOL. Shameless plug for a ride at the shootout a week from this Sat---.

Doug

[rogue]

cure for your battery problems = drive your cars :lol:

[David Pozzi]

they're a great company with great management and marketing companies. If they can teach us how to take care of these batteries, or develop something to eliminate these issues that would be the best thing all around. I definitely want them to succeed.

Jody

Jody,
Same here, first of all they are great people, and they do a lot for the Pro-Touring/corner carving sector. I like the product too, we have a yellow top purchased from our local Costco in Mary's 73 Camaro and it's at least 5 years old!
Thanks, David

[T-Type]

seems like all the problems are fairly consistent. i used to swear by optimas back in the day. however starting a few years ago had problems consistent with everyone here. when not driving my vehicles regularly they were properly maintained.

i've tried both red and yellow tops. and i've had both crap out on me. even went through a couple of warranty claims. after the last yellow top left me stranded i refused to get warranty on it and switched to another brand altogether. no problems since.

[BritishGreen68]

Ive just never had any luck with them. I had the yellow one in a show car and truck and it was always dead within a week.
Ive had same problems. Ive had or seen at least 5 dead optimas and it seems like once they go dead the first time they never come back. I had one in my camaro and it lasted about a year with limited driving (yellow) and I bought an interstate and its been with me through three different cars and never had a problem.. I really like the fact you can put them inside the car or upside down and all that but I just don't trust em..

[CptKlutz]

My message / feedback to Optima would be that they really should acknowledge the abnormally high failure rate on the red top and publish a tech bulletin that outlines the various reasons why early life failures were so rampant (surely they have done some failure analysis and production analysis, and know very well what the main deficiencies were (or are)).

What he said! :unibrow:

Also let us know how to maximize Optima battery life please.
I have no problems with the 2 Red Tops I have, they stand around for weeks and start right up. They only seem to last for around 2-3 seasons though?

[tyoneal]

Hello:

I have had two Red Tops in my Camaro, "Lateral-1", since I bought it from Mark. I got about 8 months out of the first one, and replaced it under warrantee. The second one I have to continually keep on a charger or it will be dead within a week.

It's great they are sealed, but the Performance vs. an Interstate Battery is a slam dunk for Interstate. (Sorry, but it really ticks me off to continually have to screw around with it.

Please, Please, make a better product even if it cost more.

I keep and Red Top AND a Yellow Top in my Truck, because I cannot take a chance of being stranded out in the middle of nowhere in 105*. They are both charged continually.

I'm not trying to dog your product at all, just trying to be honest. The place I have my cars serviced when I need a new battery try to talk me out of a Red Top for another brand, because evidently they get a lot of returns and it is a headache for them as a dealer.

I ALWAYS will support the sponsors of this Hobby, but I would like to meet you half way. I will pay more for one that will last, and not leave me stranded, if you will build it.

Dollars for fixing up our car are FINITE, please keep this in mind.

Thanks for your continued sponsorship of this hobby, I truly appreciate it, but We DO need a better product for our cars.

Thanks, and I look forward to doing business with you in the future.

Ty O'Neal

[XcYZ]

they're a great company with great management and marketing companies.

Fortunately OPTIMA kicked Stir to the curb, they were horrible. I got so fed up, I called Cam directly to let him know what BS they were pulling. lol

DOE-ANDERSON is doing a MUCH better job and the people are quite pleasant to deal with. They are the company spear heading this grass roots, direct user feedback. For a large corporation, it's refreshing. :thumbsup:

[BBC71Nova]

I have always thought highly of Optima as they came on the seen as an innovator to some extent. I have an Optima in my FFR and have had no problems even with extended periods of boring garage life :rolleyes: .

However, I read on another forum back a few months that Optima had decided to move their manufacturing to Mexico. Is that true? Hearing about the move of manufacturing was sort of a ding against them from my perspective. I just hope they don't do like many seem to and become marketing powerhouses primarily, lose focus on being innovative and just build stuff as cheaply as possible. I guess that works out in the short term ...:( .

John

[tellyv]

They do alot for this industry and sponser some very cool events so I will keep buying them.

[Bow Tie 67]

I have a red top and have had no problems, its going on 3 years. The car will go for periods, several weeks, without being driven and it fires right up. I hope this post doesn't jinx it.

My car has no radio and very little current drain.

[wayne70]

i have a red top in the chevelle and my son has one in his nova. The chevelle's is 3 years old and the nova's is 5year's . We are real happy with them.

[Serpa69]

cure for your battery problems = drive your cars :lol:

That is a kick a$$ response no kidding X2:thumbsup:

[David Pozzi]

Thanks for your comments. I'll do my best to relay them to Optima. It should result in better products, customer care, & sales methods.
David

[johnny rockett]

Why do you support this company who kicked Americans to the curb? I dont get it......Where are the patriots?




Thanks for your comments. I'll do my best to relay them to Optima. It should result in better products, customer care, & sales methods.
David

[camcojb]

opinions were requested and appreciated, but you've got to stop short of bashing. We had already edited Johnny's comments, but he doesn't listen :)

Johnny is going to take a little break from the site.........

Jody

[Fluid Power]

David,

What are their concerns? Are sales off? People bashing them on websites? Is there quality issues?

Better products, customer care and sales methods are pretty general ideas that would work for any business. I am not picking, just trying to nail down more specifics.

I bought a red top for my current car, the first Optima I have ever owned. I have not had a single problem. (8 months) I am keeping my fingers crossed. It sounds like I might be in the minority however.

I look forward to your post! Have fun at SEMA.

Darren

[Dave Flanders]

I've had a red top in my race car for about 5 yrs. now and while it has worked well I will never buy another battery from Optima again. The word is spreading about them laying off U.S. workers and sending the work to Mexico all in the name of higher profits. Hopefully this will bite them in the ass.

[Scubasteve]

I've had a red top for about 6 months, twice now the battery has let me down in my race car, in the staging lane and the battery is dead. They have no current capacity. I was looking into another Optima, but now hearing that they have moved to Mexico, well I have nothing for them now. Maybe the people down in Mexico can use the Optima's to power there burro's...

[steakss10]

i have two reds and so far they seem to hold up. but had one a few years back and it died and never came back. had a blue top and it lived forever and still does. but.... Mexico come onmakes me want to spend my hard earned American dollar elsewhere

[mobydidit]

I work at a Peterbilt dealer & we have had nothing but problems with the yellow tops. We have had so many problems & replaced so many we talk customers out of buying them even though we keep them in stock. There are definitely much better choices out there.

[awr68]

This has to be a record here! I don't remember ever seeing so many brand new members 1st posts be in the same thread one right after the other! It's like you all know eachother or something? Maybe the next guy should win a free Optima battery or something? :lol:

[Charming]

This has to be a record here! I don't remember ever seeing so many brand new members 1st posts be in the same thread one right after the other! It's like you all know eachother or something? Maybe the next guy should win a free Optima battery or something? :lol:


Laugh it up. It's no coincidence that this thread is no longer stickied either. Word travels quick in the automotive community, and when people hear that a little car forum is not only supporting a company that lied to it's American employees before sending there jobs to Mexico, but banning members who speak up about it.... Well it tends to ruffle feathers. You probably did more to spread the word about Optima's antics by trying to silence your members than you realize. Thank you.

**Edit** This post will be followed by an email to Optima stating how they lost my business as a customer, and also how I found out about there Mexican sellout move. I would encourage the rest of you guys that are ticked off to contact Optima also and voice your displeasure. Who knows, maybe they will offer us tickets to SEMA? Cheers.

[Flash68]

This has to be a record here! I don't remember ever seeing so many brand new members 1st posts be in the same thread one right after the other! It's like you all know eachother or something? Maybe the next guy should win a free Optima battery or something? :lol:

:lol:

[mobydidit]

Just spreading the truth to try & help people from wasting their hard earned dollars.

[Charming]

:lol:

I doubt the unemployed families in Colorado share your sense of humor.

[Charming]

In case the rest of you are wondering.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183500

[Charming]

A copy of my email to Optima.

"Hello.
I felt the need to drop you a line and inform you of some bad publicity/conduct going on that has steered myself and assuredly numerous other past,present, and future clients away from your products. It was brought to my attention the concerns that people were having making peace with the idea that a portion of your manufacturing labor force was outsourced internationally. This in and of itself would likely be enough for myself to end a business relationship with a company to be honest. The mitigating factors that really seemed to push this over the "edge" in my eyes was the way that a sponsored website of yours was going about handling the situation.
The website (Lateral-G.net) was evidently "censoring" any posts on there public forum that brought into question the ethics of this decision. As members of the public, and auto enthusiasts we feel as though we do have the right to discuss these issues. It would seem as though the conduct of the aforementioned website served to propel the negative connotations exponentially, now that they were coupled with questionable conduct on the part of your sponsored website and its administrators.
I would suggest you reevaluate the criteria by which you gauge your working partners. These issues can spread like wildfire, and in the end do nothing for a company's image. It likely wouldn't matter so much on your end if your product was of a proprietorially exclusive nature, but in this instance that just isn't the case. "

[camcojb]

Laugh it up. It's no coincidence that this thread is no longer stickied either. Word travels quick in the automotive community, and when people hear that a little car forum is not only supporting a company that lied to it's American employees before sending there jobs to Mexico, but banning members who speak up about it.... Well it tends to ruffle feathers. You probably did more to spread the word about Optima's antics by trying to silence your members than you realize. Thank you.

**Edit** This post will be followed by an email to Optima stating how they lost my business as a customer, and also how I found out about there Mexican sellout move. I would encourage the rest of you guys that are ticked off to contact Optima also and voice your displeasure. Who knows, maybe they will offer us tickets to SEMA? Cheers.

A copy of my email to Optima.

"Hello.
I felt the need to drop you a line and inform you of some bad publicity/conduct going on that has steered myself and assuredly numerous other past,present, and future clients away from your products. It was brought to my attention the concerns that people were having making peace with the idea that a portion of your manufacturing labor force was outsourced internationally. This in and of itself would likely be enough for myself to end a business relationship with a company to be honest. The mitigating factors that really seemed to push this over the "edge" in my eyes was the way that a sponsored website of yours was going about handling the situation.
The website (Lateral-G.net) was evidently "censoring" any posts on there public forum that brought into question the ethics of this decision. As members of the public, and auto enthusiasts we feel as though we do have the right to discuss these issues. It would seem as though the conduct of the aforementioned website served to propel the negative connotations exponentially, now that they were coupled with questionable conduct on the part of your sponsored website and its administrators.
I would suggest you reevaluate the criteria by which you gauge your working partners. These issues can spread like wildfire, and in the end do nothing for a company's image. It likely wouldn't matter so much on your end if your product was of a proprietorially exclusive nature, but in this instance that just isn't the case. "
the original post that was removed by John Cunningham (Johnny Rockett) was for vendor bashing, which this site and every other one I'm on does not allow. Apparently yellow bullet allows it and that's fine for them. He went back and re-posted it so he got a temporary ban and the post was removed again, along with an explanation. I'm pretty sure any message board would do the same. His personal e--mails to me escalated to the point that I changed it to a permanent ban.

It's a legal issue, and at some point the sites that allow members to bash vendors will find out why all the very large car sites I'm a member of (not including Lateral-G in this list) do not allow it on their site. We're leaving the comments up as that's what Optima requested, so good or bad is fine as long as it doesn't turn in to a bash session.

By the way, the thread was un-stickied because it's SEMA week, and if David hasn't left already he will be soon so we don't need to leave it up top................. ;)

Jody

[GregWeld]

Well said Jody.

This is a fantastic automotive website - and sharing information and encouraging one another is what it should be about. Slogging through posts
from disgruntled employees on a bash fest serves no purpose whatsoever. They can start their own blog or website.

While I agree - that if the batteries will now be made in Mexico - they will no longer be installed in anything I drive (I own 9 cars)... I'm not going to bash them. Nor do we need pages of "hate mail".

:thumbsup:

[XcYZ]

Just an FYI, you should also send that e-mail to Johnson Controls as well as they own Optima (JCI bought Optima from a company in Sweden in '00 and moved it here). Ultimately, it was JCI that moved Optima manufacturing to Mexico.

On a related note, Johnson Controls manufactures Duralast, Diehard, Kirkland (Costco), Motorcraft, EverStart, Interstate, Optima, DieHard, TrueStart, Autocraft, Mazda, Blains Farm & Fleet, and probably some others...

[Charming]

I don't think anyones intention is to clutter up your website with bashing. My issue is this.

Companies have the right to outsource their workforce wherever they choose. They don't need to do it in the underhanded, deceitful way which Optima allegedly did, but they can. These companies go into a situation like this fully aware that there is an accountability to there customers that they will have to acknowledge. Hopefully it is something which is carefully weighed prior to making the decision.

My issue is that a number of people commented on this particular website regarding these issues, and the moderator, administrator, owner, or whomever took it upon themselves to remove these posts, and ban the usernames and IP's from which they were posted. Don't tell me it didn't happen, or that they were "bashing" because I am one of those people and would gladly repost the mysterious disappearing comments.

You have the right to solicit sponsorship money from whatever company you choose, and judging by the lengthy list on the left, you do a fine job at it. You do owe it to your members to at least be aware of the nature of companies sending you money so they can decide for themselves if they also support these companies and there actions.

I'm sure you had great intentions to your sponsors when you deleted/banned this information. Unfortunately the act of attempted censorship will usually, and in this case did, only escalate the situation.

[rwhite692]

The original poster (David) asked on behalf of the manufacturer for feedback, technical feedback, on the performance of the product.

Myself and many others have provided technical usage experiences, many of which are very critical of the product. Did you read any of those?

They did not ask for feedback regarding whether or not any of us feel good or bad about Johnson Controls / Optima as a company, nor for an ethics / civics lesson from you, about how we as hobbyists should feel about companies that outsource manufacturing, or whether employees were wronged.

It's not relevant to the discussion.

Coming on here and spewing that stuff, IS vendor bashing, pure and simple.

If you don't like the company, you have a moral objection with how they do business, treat their employees, etc, then fine, then simply make your personal choice and go buy something else. Take your crusade elsewhere.

[camcojb]

I don't think anyones intention is to clutter up your website with bashing. My issue is this.

Companies have the right to outsource their workforce wherever they choose. They don't need to do it in the underhanded, deceitful way which Optima allegedly did, but they can. These companies go into a situation like this fully aware that there is an accountability to there customers that they will have to acknowledge. Hopefully it is something which is carefully weighed prior to making the decision.

My issue is that a number of people commented on this particular website regarding these issues, and the moderator, administrator, owner, or whomever took it upon themselves to remove these posts, and ban the usernames and IP's from which they were posted. Don't tell me it didn't happen, or that they were "bashing" because I am one of those people and would gladly repost the mysterious disappearing comments.

You have the right to solicit sponsorship money from whatever company you choose, and judging by the lengthy list on the left, you do a fine job at it. You do owe it to your members to at least be aware of the nature of companies sending you money so they can decide for themselves if they also support these companies and there actions.

I'm sure you had great intentions to your sponsors when you deleted/banned this information. Unfortunately the act of attempted censorship will usually, and in this case did, only escalate the situation.One guy was banned (johnny rockett) because he re-posted the same thing after we edited it. And that was not permanent until he lost control.........

You have not been banned under any of your four or more names (evilsports, evilersports, evilestsports) plus your current name. Show me where you cannot sign in under those names..............

Nobody else was banned in this thread, just the one for not listening. I mentioned that he could re-word it in a way that it could stay up, but he wanted to make it personal. I'm pretty sure yellowbullet.com would not allow a member to do the same. I am sorry it escalated but you've got to put some blame on the guy who cannot keep things civil.

None of us like companies leaving the US, but there are different ways of getting your point across; one way would remain on the board, and then there's Johns way. We do only allow sponsors that take care of our members, and have removed some in the past that did not. It's not about the money. Optima supports our hobby more than most manufacturers.

Jody

[Charming]

The original poster (David) asked on behalf of the manufacturer for feedback, technical feedback, on the performance of the product.

Myself and many others have provided technical usage experiences, many of which are very critical of the product. Did you read any of those?

They did not ask for feedback regarding whether or not any of us feel good or bad about Johnson Controls / Optima as a company, nor for an ethics / civics lesson from you, about how we as hobbyists should feel about companies that outsource manufacturing, or whether employees were wronged.

It's not relevant to the discussion.

Coming on here and spewing that stuff, IS vendor bashing, pure and simple.

If you don't like the company, you have a moral objection with how they do business, treat their employees, etc, then fine, then simply make your personal choice and go buy something else. Take your crusade elsewhere.

Stances like these are what make it an easy decision for a company to pick up roots, lay off a work force, and move to Mexico. People are more concerned nowadays with keeping the personal status quo then they are with standing up next to there countrymen.

[Charming]

One guy was banned (johnny rockett) because he re-posted the same thing after we edited it. And that was not permanent until he lost control.........

You have not been banned under any of your four or more names (evilsports, evilersports, evilestsports) plus your current name. Show me where you cannot sign in under those names..............

Nobody else was banned in this thread, just the one for not listening. I mentioned that he could re-word it in a way that it could stay up, but he wanted to make it personal. I'm pretty sure yellowbullet.com would not allow a member to do the same. I am sorry it escalated but you've got to put some blame on the guy who cannot keep things civil.

None of us like companies leaving the US, but there are different ways of getting your point across; one way would remain on the board, and then there's Johns way. We do only allow sponsors that take care of our members, and have removed some in the past that did not. It's not about the money. Optima supports our hobby more than most manufacturers.

Jody

I was banned. Then I was "apparently" unbanned, however my posts were only visible to me when I was signed in. To everyone else they were not. Now I appear to be unbanned. Regardless, I have a hard time putting the blame on the fellow that was standing up for something that I also believe in. Maybe more people standing up for what they believe in isn't a bad thing in the grand scheme.

I agree though, topics like this have a tendency to heat up in a hurry.

[chr2002ca]

On a related note, Johnson Controls manufactures Duralast, Diehard, Kirkland (Costco), Motorcraft, EverStart, Interstate, Optima, DieHard, TrueStart, Autocraft, Mazda, Blains Farm & Fleet, and probably some others...

Yep, you'll be hard pressed to find an automotive battery manufactured in the USA anymore. My friend's recently purchased Interstate battery had a 'made in Mexico' sticker on it. There have been an enormous number of companies that have outsourced labor to 'survive'(mine included) and it's exceptionally disturbing(I may be next), but if I was a new buyer reading this thread, I wouldn't have needed the labor practices argument to convince me to not buy an Optima. I think people's experiences with the product itself that were described in the thread would be enough to deter me from an Optima.

I've owned a red top for about 3 years now. It hasn't ever left me for dead away from home, but I do need to keep it on a trickle charger and it won't hold as much charge as it did when it was new(about .5 volts less). I most likely would not purchase another unless they improve the durability and quality of the product. If it does improve, well, then I'll surely consider them.

[XcYZ]

Here's what's ironic, I totally agree with your sentiment that it sucks royally that yet more manufacturing jobs have left this country. I hate it, I hate where this country is going, and I hate who's at the helm. I, like you I'm sure, have zero confidence in our government. Where I disagree is how you went about this. By calling people names, telling their car sucks, belittling in general, is counterproductive. The posts that were removed was because of personal attacks. No IP's were banned, we simply put the offending username on mute becuase the person using that account couldn't be rational. No posts that complained about Optima's performance as a product were ever removed. They're still in this thread.

I've never solicited a company to advertise here. They call came here on their own accord, just like you did.

Personally, I believe the problem with Optima moving manufacturing out of this country is a symptom of a government that hates business. I'm not defending Optima, I'm merely trying to understand it. For instance:


For the 10th-consecutive year, the global average corporate tax rate fell, and it is now down to 25.5 percent (just 23.2 percent in the European Union!).

In the United States, unfortunately, the corporate tax rates remains stuck at about 40 percent. Only one developed nation, Japan, has a more punitive regime.

Something to keep in mind the next time a politician complains that jobs are going to China (corporate tax rate of 25 percent) or Mexico.

http://www.kpmg.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/KPMG_Corporate_Indirect_Tax_Rate_Survey_2009.pdf


On top of out of control tax rates on businesses, I also have to wonder if Colorado's EPA was forcing the manufactuing of batteries out? I know that California would never let chemicals like that in their state.


I don't know what the solution is, but I'm voting in the '10 elections. There's going to be an incumbant blood bath.

[nvr2fst]

Here's what's ironic, I totally agree with your sentiment that it sucks royally that yet more manufacturing jobs have left this country. I hate it, I hate where this country is going, and I hate who's at the helm. I, like you I'm sure, have zero confidence in our government. Where I disagree is how you went about this. By calling people names, telling their car sucks, belittling in general, is counterproductive. The posts that were removed was because of personal attacks. No IP's were banned, we simply put the offending username on mute because the person using that account couldn't be rational. No posts that complained about Optima's performance as a product were ever removed. They're still in this thread.

I've never solicited a company to advertise here. They call came here on their own accord, just like you did.

Personally, I believe the problem with Optima moving manufacturing out of this country is a symptom of a government that hates business. I'm not defending Optima, I'm merely trying to understand it. For instance:





On top of out of control tax rates on businesses, I also have to wonder if Colorado's EPA was forcing the manufacturing of batteries out? I know that California would never let chemicals like that in their state.


I don't know what the solution is, but I'm voting in the '10 elections. There's going to be an incumbent blood bath.

Im right there with you on that remark Scott.

Some companies have had to outsource labor tactics beyond the US to survive in this economic downfall. Although Johnson's IMO is not one of those companies (there holdings in most areas are doing just fine) it is surprising that they opt to move Optima to Mexico merely on the fact of a better profit margin. Now since the consumer is frustrated on the product being made in Mexico which will result in lost sales, I dont foresee this being a win for Johnson's by utilizing lower labor operations.

As far as David's OP-
(1) 2 marine batteries (cant think of the color) bought new in 05 with boat
purchase. Never an issue during the season yet. Trickle charge off
season.
(2) 1 red top in the H2 since 06. No issues ever.
(3) 1 red top in the Z06. Bought last year. Battery usually goes dead after
2 weeks of no use. Usually I jump start it when that happens because I
haven't taken the patience to trickle it during driving months.
(4) Went through 2 yellow tops (both warranty returns) and 1 red top on
the 34 I sold last year. Not to mention buying another one for the sale.
(5) Plan to purchase Braille on the 69's when we get that far unless Optima
resolves some of there issues with the batteries and not necessarily
territory.
(6) Need Jimi Day to keep his job, got to love that wealth of AMC karaoke!

[tellyv]

I've had a couple go bad kinda early I guess I need to see how to charge them correctly.

[awr68]

I'm not being a smart ass...I really want to know what our options are for US built batteries. Can someone please make a list? Thanks!!

[70rs]

I'm not being a smart ass...I really want to know what our options are for US built batteries. Can someone please make a list? Thanks!!



X2 ^^^:thumbsup:

[fabwhitey]

I have had a red top for 7 years swapped it from one car to another just keep it charged up starts every time

[awr68]

I have had a red top for 7 years swapped it from one car to another just keep it charged up starts every time

Good to hear....and welcome!!

[nvr2fst]

I'm not being a smart ass...I really want to know what our options are for US built batteries. Can someone please make a list? Thanks!!

Here is my next choice Braille Battery USA. They have several options and pricing for your needs.
http://www.braillebattery.com/

[Bow Tie 67]

Just checked my red top, the sticker has an Aurora Co address on it. I have not had problems and its 3 years old I'm assuming this one was made in the u.s.a.

[ccracin]

................ just keep it charged up starts every time

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here either, but this is just obvious. Keep any battery charged up and it should start EVERY TIME! How long can it sit in the car before it won't start?

[fabwhitey]

It would stayed charged about 2 weeks.

[ccracin]

It would stayed charged about 2 weeks.

Thanks for an honest answer. I appreciate it. Not that Batteries are by any means the most expensive part of a build, but it all adds up. I've got time before we need one, maybe they will get straightened around.

Maybe Dave will have some info from SEMA.

[camaro2nv]

Here is my next choice Braille Battery USA. They have several options and pricing for your needs.
http://www.braillebattery.com/

My next battery. We need to support made in America!

[NOT A TA]

I don't have an Optima and never have. Why? Because everyone I ever knew who had one complained about short life, consistant charging required, and no warning when they die. I have 9 vehicles requiring 10 batteries total.

1. I disconnect the batteries on infrequently started vehicles to reduce the risk of electrical shorts starting a fire. Why would I then want to increase the risk of fire by running 110 volts to a charger that will eventually have some kind of problem? (presuming the chargers do not last forever)

2. Several of the vehicles are not near outlets (storage facilities) and would require removal of the batteries to bring home to to an outlet to keep on a trickle charger. It's a pain to take the battery out of some of the cars and I just don't want to do it every time I use the car. I leave regular batteries for months at a time and the cars will start.

3.The batteries in most of my vehicles are mounted in the stock location in an upright position so there is no need for a sealed battery.

4. I have a lot of other things I'd rather spend money on than batteries that require me to spend more money on to buy chargers to maintain them and then feed electricty to.

5. With 10 batteries total I end up replacing 1 - 3 a year already, why would I want to spend even more time replacing batteries by using ones with half the life that I would have no confidence in once they were over 6 months old?

Since the door has already been opened concerning other brands: I will be buying a lightweight battery soon for The 14 Car when I switch to a trunk mount. It will most likely be a Braille because I haven't heard any complaints and I'm only buying products made in America as long as there is no sacrifice in quality.

[T-Type]

did anything come from the gathering of all this information?