Getting cotter pin through ball joint

[scherp69]

So as the title says, I have a question about getting the cotter pin through the ball joint. I'm have Moog 5108 ball joints and I have the nut tight, but it hasn't gone far enough to allow the cotter pin to go through. In the past if I've gone too tight, then the entire shaft starts turning and then I can't tighten it up at all so I ended up replacing them. At $38 each, I don't want to keep replacing them. I can get the cotter pin through one side, but it won't come out the other. Any advice?? Thanks in advance.

[Blake Foster]

if it is really tight, the nut i mean, just back it off one notch, but make sure you are really pulling onthe 3/4 wrench thata how tight they should be then just back it off

[gearheads78]

So as the title says, I have a question about getting the cotter pin through the ball joint. I'm have Moog 5108 ball joints and I have the nut tight, but it hasn't gone far enough to allow the cotter pin to go through. In the past if I've gone too tight, then the entire shaft starts turning and then I can't tighten it up at all so I ended up replacing them. At $38 each, I don't want to keep replacing them. I can get the cotter pin through one side, but it won't come out the other. Any advice?? Thanks in advance.

I had the same issue with my ball joints. The hole was not perfectly centered in my Howe ball joints. I had to sneak up on it to where one side of the hole was opening as the other side was closing my pin would just barley slide in. If I lined up one hole in the center the other side would be closed up too far. It also helped to arc the pin just a little.

[70rs]

I think you guys just need bigger hammers.:D

[JRouche]

Sound like my problem I had with some spindles. The tapered hole was too small. I was lucky enough to have factory stock spindles still and measured the tapered hole. Sure enough, the new ones were small. Back to the company they went. JR

[JRouche]

Sound like my problem I had with some spindles. The tapered hole was too small. I was lucky enough to have factory stock spindles still and measured the tapered hole. Sure enough, the new ones were small. Back to the company they went. JR

Oh, and for the spinning ball joint stud. I have had to resort to an impact air wrench sometimes. Just to get the taper seated quickly so the BJ stud didnt turn. Just a quick tap on the trigger. Prolly not the preferred method. And once the pin was seated and grabbing good I was able to move the nut to the last hole or even cinch it down a lil to the next hole. Just a matter of getting the tapered pin to seat and grip.

[wedged]

massage the slot in the nut a little to make more room for the pin. I've even cut down studs, slotted them with a cut off wheel, then drilled a hole through a ground down nut to still use a cotter pin. This was to gain clearance. Crude but effective.

[ma73z]

I like to hit the face of the nut on the belt sander, go a little at a time usually works like a charm and doesn't hurt a thing.

[JRouche]

I dont know, but the couple of posts on modifying the nut just doesnt sound right to me. Castellated nuts arent the best of nuts to begin with. So deepening the groves or thinning the base just doesnt sound like a good idea.

And I understand they are mainly for a safety issue, if the taper fit lets loose. Well I think the taper does let loose after some miles. After you seat the taper, if you were to back the nut off a 1/8 of a turn, so the nut is loose I wouldnt be surprised after driving the car the pin on the BJ will back out the distance that you gave it, that slack.

They arent tension nuts, but they do keep the pin seated. Im not a fan of castellated nuts, but thats what is used. Making the nut even weaker than it already is IMO is a bad idea.

If the pin is seated all the way in and you still cant see the hole then the bore of the spindle may be off.

Seat the pin as far as you can. I can really lay into my nuts and the ball doesnt loose traction. Thats really odd you had to replace the BJs because of that. They should be a pretty tight fit. And I use Moog joints. Maybe low friction joints are like that though, dunno.

So anyway, seat the pin as far as it will go, use a air wrench if you need to. Just to get the speed of turning to seat the taper, NOT for the additional torque. Then if the hole still cant be seen remove the nut and washer. The pin will stay in place. Then look at the top of the spindle arm (or bottom if its the top BJ), right where the pin comes through. All of the cars I have worked on, (which really isnt that many) will have the top of the taper on the pin just at the top of the edge of the spindle arm, I can always see the end of the taper.

Thats the way its supposed to be. If you have threads below the top of the arm (for the bottom joint), in the bore its wrong. If the pin taper is just slightly, like say an 1/8" above the arm no big deal, just fine. The washer (or two) will give you plenty of threads to grip onto with the nut. You dont want the pin sitting to low in the bore. If it is then either the pin is off (not likely) or the aftermarket spindle balljoint bore is too small. You want the spindle arms bore fully engaged, the entire surface, with the BJ pin.

On critical parts like this dont fix a bad fitment with even worst fixes. Find the problem, no matter how painful it might be, work through it. You will be happy if you do. Peace of mind every time you drive the car and really, you just dont want a failure on that part. You shear a BJ pin or crack a castellated nut and you will be lucky if you happen to be parking it. JR

[ma73z]

Jrouche I wasn't saying throw the nut on a 36 grit belt and take an 1/8 inch off just simply removing a couple thousandths lets the slots move that much more just to let the pin slide in.

[wedged]

ma73z if you're that concearned over taking a few thousands of an inch off of a castle nut to allow it to do the job it was designed to do, then perhaps you'd better find another hobby. Sorry to be harsh, but there are many times when one must modify parts to enable them to work. I can't imagine what you'd think of people cutting , shortening and welding steering arms back together. If no one did stuff like this, then this entire website and this hobby would not exist.

[scherp69]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I plan on getting to them on Monday or Tuesday so this will come in handy.

JR...I'm not sure if I would have had to replace the ball joints or not. If I would have asked this question back then, I wouldn't have. I guess I just didn't know better and thought since they were spinning, something must be wrong. Atleast I didn't throw them out so I have two good replacements.

[ma73z]

Wedged I think if you read my posts again you will see that I was saying I had no problem modifying the nuts in order to make them work, I have done so many times sorry if my advise doesn't work for you it has for me.:yes:

[JRouche]

Wedged I think if you read my posts again you will see that I was saying I had no problem modifying the nuts in order to make them work, I have done so many times sorry if my advise doesn't work for you it has for me.:yes:

Hahaha!! He was on such a rant that he pointed it at the wrong dude. He was talking to me. Guess he got a lil flustered and hit the wrong reply to button. Hmmm, quick to act but not thinking.

Just kidding Wedged, honest mistake. Posting to the wrong person. I get a lil fired up sometimes too. And so with that Ill go ahead and take the reins on your post.

Wedge said: ma73z if you're that concearned over taking a few thousands of an inch off of a castle nut to allow it to do the job it was designed to do, then perhaps you'd better find another hobby. Sorry to be harsh, but there are many times when one must modify parts to enable them to work. I can't imagine what you'd think of people cutting , shortening and welding steering arms back together. If no one did stuff like this, then this entire website and this hobby would not exist.
Yesterday 08:16 PM

So that was for me.. Umm. Well Ill stand by my idea that you shouldnt thin out a castellated nut, that is weak already. And you say a few thou?? Really? You talked about touching it off on the sander. What method did you use to ensure a parallel surface? If I remove any metal from a seating member I use a lathe or mill. So do you hold it with your fingers and take a couple thou off. Where do you determine that the nut still has a flat parallel surface? Not an issue? Ok.

So I guess its about just getting the job done right? I get that. I HAVE been there and done it. Still do.

But the diff is when I do it I dont get online and say F off dude when someone questions my methods. No, I will just ignore it. If they dont like my idea then thats fine. Cause really, my idea was prolly a hack fix anyway. I cant defend a hack fix. But I will still give my hack advise.

But for you to come back and defend your hack fix just makes you look petty.

Keep giving advice, its really good to have ALL the options. JR

[wedged]

ma73z- woops- sorry, wrong person.

JRouche - You might want to try re-reading what I wrote. No where did I use the offensive language that you implied. I did not question your method. I never mentioned a sander. What I did imply is that is that you may be worrying too much about modifying a part to make it work.

Defend my "hack fix" ? No need. The nut and stud I descibed modifying (actually not a ball joint, but a pitman arm stud and I didn't use a castellated nut) has been in service for over 20 years now. I'm not concearned about the nut not having a parallel face since I didn't grind the contact surface.

[xpsled]

Hey guys im an aircraft engineer and new to the forum, we encounter this problem often on aircraft, nut has to be torqued to a specific torque and cotter pin installed but 99% of the time the holes wont line up. Just shim the nut with thin washers until you can achieve this. Standard practice on aircraft and works every time.

[JRouche]

Hey guys im an aircraft engineer and new to the forum, we encounter this problem often on aircraft, nut has to be torqued to a specific torque and cotter pin installed but 99% of the time the holes wont line up. Just shim the nut with thin washers until you can achieve this. Standard practice on aircraft and works every time.

That does work, if you can see the hole. I think, I may be wrong but it sounds like the nut is sitting ABOVE the hole. Thats why I was thinking one of the tapers were off. Either the pin or the bore. JR

[JRouche]

ma73z- woops- sorry, wrong person.

JRouche - You might want to try re-reading what I wrote. No where did I use the offensive language that you implied. I did not question your method. I never mentioned a sander. What I did imply is that is that you may be worrying too much about modifying a part to make it work.
Defend my "hack fix" ? No need. The nut and stud I descibed modifying (actually not a ball joint, but a pitman arm stud and I didn't use a castellated nut) has been in service for over 20 years now. I'm not concearned about the nut not having a parallel face since I didn't grind the contact surface.


Hi wedged.. Yer right, you didnt use offensive language, and I didnt mean to imply you did, solly. Its just terminology. You can tell someone to get F-ed without ever using the F word. And Im again not saying thats what you implied. Solly again..

So, yeah, you didnt say you sanded the nut ( I got confused with the other post and linked it with what you did). But you were telling him if he has an issue with it that he may need to find a new hobby. Condoning the sanded nut reply. I really dont have an issue with what a guy wants to do with his car. I guess I just took offense to you saying if he is so anal he should find a new hobby. Thats just wrong..

And the hack term I used, and used. I feel comfortable in describing modifying a castellated nut as a hack fix, it is. And Im comfortable with the term hack cause well, I do some hack fixes also.

Sometimes you just have to. For design issues, availability of parts, monetary issues. One reason that isint valid is laziness. Not saying thats the issue here, just that its never acceptable for that reason.

And there are two sections of a car that I dont think ANY hack work should be used, ever. Brakes and steering. You loose any of those systems and yer doomed to not be able to fix it later.

And you say you described what fix you did. Solly, I missed that one too :) What I saw was this "ma73z if you're that concearned over taking a few thousands of an inch off of a castle nut to allow it to do the job it was designed to do, then perhaps you'd better find another hobby."

I missed your talk of modifying a standard nut and its application.

Bottom line for me, I dont think a castle nut should ever be modified. They are heavily modified already. I dont like them.

Again, sorry for implying anything that was not correct. My bust.

And back to original post. How did it work out? What did scherp69 come up with. Im hoping it was just a matter of the pin not seating deep enough. Hate to think the spindle was made incorrectly. Not that it doesnt happen. JR

[Novelli]

Had the same problem with a set of aftermarket spindles from a very well know suspension company.......no not one that advertises on this site, The tapered bore on the spindle was wrong! Swapped out the spindle to fix the problem. P.S half of the aftermarket, or re-pop stuff out there is a bunch of ****! Quality control does not seem to be that high on the list of things to do with most of these companys.

[JRouche]

Im kinda curious on how Mike fixed it? It was a month now, Im sure he fixed it. What was the fix?? Everyone likes a fix to to story. How did it turn out??? Come on, a happy ending :) Start a story then end it :) JR

[scherp69]

Yes I was finally able to get the cotter pin through although I tightened the bolt quite a bit more and it still would not give me the room. I finally had to slightly 'finese' the opening with a drill bit to get the cotter pin through. I didn't want to do it, but it seemed to be the only way to get the damn thing through. And now the ironic thing....I'm leaning towards getting a pair of the L&H spindles as they will fit the Wilwood brakes I have.

[JRouche]

Yes I was finally able to get the cotter pin through............ And now the ironic thing....I'm leaning towards getting a pair of the L&H spindles as they will fit the Wilwood brakes I have.

Hahaaha.. Dude!!! You are on the path of no return.. I know cause up ahead I see you!!! Yup, right ahead of me, I can see the foot steps in the quagmire... Quick!!! Jump off the path, its a never ending road. LOL.. Ok, so you didnt jump and here I see you, right along side myself. Errrr.. Now what do we do, keep trudging I guess huh? Nice to have someone to walk with though :) JR

[70rs]

Hahaaha.. Dude!!! You are on the path of no return.. I know cause up ahead I see you!!! Yup, right ahead of me, I can see the foot steps in the quagmire... Quick!!! Jump off the path, its a never ending road. LOL.. Ok, so you didnt jump and here I see you, right along side myself. Errrr.. Now what do we do, keep trudging I guess huh? Nice to have someone to walk with though :) JR

There are more of us on this path than you think........:rofl:

[scherp69]

Hahaaha.. Dude!!! You are on the path of no return.. I know cause up ahead I see you!!! Yup, right ahead of me, I can see the foot steps in the quagmire... Quick!!! Jump off the path, its a never ending road. LOL.. Ok, so you didnt jump and here I see you, right along side myself. Errrr.. Now what do we do, keep trudging I guess huh? Nice to have someone to walk with though :) JR

There are more of us on this path than you think........:rofl:

Unfortunately I was on the path of no return ever since I found these damn forums. You've seen my parts list!!! :lol: When I bought the stock style spindles...it was only because I already had my Wilwood brakes and I was tired of buying parts, selling them at a loss and buying new parts or else I would have went with the ATS spindles in the first place. Now that L&H has the stock style....will add to my list, unless of course ATS (Speed Tech) decides to add a stock style spindle in the future.

[Blake Foster]

will add to my list, unless of course ATS (Speed Tech) decides to add a stock style spindle in the future.[/QUOTE]

don't hold your breath!!!!!

i have a great idea........... sell your brakes to the guy who bought your sub and then get a set of ......... OH .... Wait.. you already thougth of that..




hahahah:cheers:

[scherp69]

will add to my list, unless of course ATS (Speed Tech) decides to add a stock style spindle in the future.

don't hold your breath!!!!!

i have a great idea........... sell your brakes to the guy who bought your sub and then get a set of ......... OH .... Wait.. you already thougth of that..




hahahah:cheers:

Well I guess that answers my questions :lol:
That's okay...I'm still not done buying Speed Tech stuff for my car. :cheers:

[lhkustoms]

And now the ironic thing....I'm leaning towards getting a pair of the L&H spindles as they will fit the Wilwood brakes I have.

Well give us a call when your ready or you have any questions. Our spindles will work great with your Wilwood brakes. We have them in stock ready to ship when your ready. Our introductory pricing 10% off is good til January

[scherp69]

Well give us a call when your ready or you have any questions. Our spindles will work great with your Wilwood brakes. We have them in stock ready to ship when your ready. Our introductory pricing 10% off is good til January

Will do Luke. I saw the 10% off, but don't think I'll be ordering until spring. I need to work more overtime to pay off the credit cards and get room for the next shipment of parts. Will likely be spring/summer time when I get a load of new parts. Will be in touch then.