Career Change?

[tones2SS]

Any thought of a career change after being affected by a lay off or by this recession?

[70rs]

Any thought of a career change after being affected by a lay off or by this recession?

Uh, yes. My field has been hit hard by the economy and there are MANY shops closing their doors. There have been many layoffs in this area. The thought of changing careers has been often.

[Vegas69]

You must adapt to the economy and times. I've had to reinvent myself over and over and over in the Real Estate business. Things just haven't stayed constant long enough to get in a groove for very long. As the old saying goes, you can't expect a different result with the same approach.

[GregWeld]

Todd -

that would be the deffinition of insanty.... Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


I fixed the whole work thing and just retired. Work is really overrated! Besides... It interefered with my social life.

Seriously. I feel for everyone that is struggling with work, or the lack if it.

[70rs]

You must adapt to the economy and times. I've had to reinvent myself over and over and over in the Real Estate business. Things just haven't stayed constant long enough to get in a groove for very long. As the old saying goes, you can't expect a different result with the same approach.

I totally agree Todd. And that is exactly what I am doing as we speak. Life is too short to simply tread water. I have always been one to make things happen and improve any given situation. Why stop now right? Time to move forward.:cheers:

[michael6372]

I am constantly thinking about this. The job I currently have is shaky at best(paper industry). I just don't know where to go or what to do. Not having a college education doesn't help either. There are not many jobs in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (or anywhere in Michigan) so if I'm going to try to find a different career, I'll probably have to move.

My question is, how many opportunities am I going to have to get a good paying job so I can support my family (and my car habit) without a degree? Being almost 39 years old, are many companies going to take a chance on a farmboy/papermaker from Michigan?:question:

Michael.

[GregWeld]

I am constantly thinking about this. The job I currently have is shaky at best(paper industry). I just don't know where to go or what to do. Not having a college education doesn't help either. There are not many jobs in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (or anywhere in Michigan) so if I'm going to try to find a different career, I'll probably have to move.

My question is, how many opportunities am I going to have to get a good paying job so I can support my family (and my car habit) without a degree? Being almost 39 years old, are many companies going to take a chance on a farmboy/papermaker from Michigan?:question:

Michael.

Michael.

Maybe it's time to go back to night school while you still have the opportunity and the job to support it. There must be something in the industry you're in - that could tie your current skills in with something say more high tech, if you had the training.

Living in Washington - we have many loggers - they have NO skills outside of whacking down trees.. or pulling green chain in a mill... the problem with that is that it's so single focus. No logging - no mill - no job. They all seem to go down together. What they needed to do was gain some additional skills while the logging was still booming (It's always been boom or bust here).

My Brother in law used to hump roofing... I told him that he needed to quit actually DOING the roofing - and start to contract that out - run the jobs - and take a percentage... to which he replied "I can't afford to do that"... I told him he couldn't afford NOT to do that... because it's one thing to hump roofing when you're in your 20's - but you're pay is limited by how many square you can do in a day... and how long your body will take the abuse. So after awhile he DID start to become a roofing contractor... then remodeler... then he got into commercial work. Now he builds MiniStorage units in 3 states... has many employees and even today his work is booming. I'll take no credit except to start him thinking that he must make the effort to "change" his situation. The rest was up to him.

There has to be something for everyone - that they love to do... and, that they can earn a living at. The key is to take the chance.

I tell my kids - "life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"... and it's so true. What I don't want them to do is to forget about making their plans - setting goals - and working towards them. It's not a straight line... never is...

What separates the 'broke / on a budget' but good race car driver from another one -- is that the good driver can win in a crappy car... and when he does that... the guys with good cars take notice and say - wow! If that guy can win driving that POS... imagine what he could do if he was driving for my race team. That's making your own "luck" - was he lucky - or did he push on despite all the hard work - working nights so he could race on Saturday... which finally got him noticed.

Now.... if I could just get my wife to take that 3rd job... I'd be all set!

:cheers:

[tones2SS]

Yeah, it is tough out there guys. I've been laid off now for about 7 months.
Only the 2nd time I've ever been laid off. (the very first time I was laid off, I had another job in less than a month. BUT,..that was then, this is now.)
I send out resume after resume, but there's only so many times you can send your resume to the same number of companies. I have thought about showing up in person/calling over the phone lately, maybe that will bring some better luck?
Yeah, so I'm looking at different things. Possibly something in the medical field. I would really like to be involved with radiology. There is a 21 month course in a school about 30 minutes away that will provides an associates degree when completed. Something I am looking at.
Good luck to all with these tough times.:thumbsup:

[tones2SS]

Michael.

Maybe it's time to go back to night school while you still have the opportunity and the job to support it. There must be something in the industry you're in - that could tie your current skills in with something say more high tech, if you had the training.

Living in Washington - we have many loggers - they have NO skills outside of whacking down trees.. or pulling green chain in a mill... the problem with that is that it's so single focus. No logging - no mill - no job. They all seem to go down together. What they needed to do was gain some additional skills while the logging was still booming (It's always been boom or bust here).

My Brother in law used to hump roofing... I told him that he needed to quit actually DOING the roofing - and start to contract that out - run the jobs - and take a percentage... to which he replied "I can't afford to do that"... I told him he couldn't afford NOT to do that... because it's one thing to hump roofing when you're in your 20's - but you're pay is limited by how many square you can do in a day... and how long your body will take the abuse. So after awhile he DID start to become a roofing contractor... then remodeler... then he got into commercial work. Now he builds MiniStorage units in 3 states... has many employees and even today his work is booming. I'll take no credit except to start him thinking that he must make the effort to "change" his situation. The rest was up to him.

There has to be something for everyone - that they love to do... and, that they can earn a living at. The key is to take the chance.

I tell my kids - "life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"... and it's so true. What I don't want them to do is to forget about making their plans - setting goals - and working towards them. It's not a straight line... never is...

What separates the 'broke / on a budget' but good race car driver from another one -- is that the good driver can win in a crappy car... and when he does that... the guys with good cars take notice and say - wow! If that guy can win driving that POS... imagine what he could do if he was driving for my race team. That's making your own "luck" - was he lucky - or did he push on despite all the hard work - working nights so he could race on Saturday... which finally got him noticed.

Now.... if I could just get my wife to take that 3rd job... I'd be all set!

:cheers:

Very well said Greg!! Very well said.:thumbsup:

[waynieZ]

Tony unemployment has a program that they pay for school . Have you checked into that yet ? Maybe it will help you.
Wayne

[joemac]

I was in a similar position earlier this year, except I decided it was time for me to leave where I was at. I have decided to start my own small business. This was mentioned above and is what I recommend. Now I do have a woman that has decided to stick with me until I get on my feet. It takes time to replace your income and is very much like starting over at the bottom but is much more rewarding and I am pleased with my decision.

Also I will note that my area has seen little effect from the economic downturn before you say are you crazy to walk away from a job in this economy? We have a navy base very close and the government contractors are many. I also believe the economy is what you make of it, make some hard decisions now so when we turn this thing around you are in a much better position.

[GregWeld]

There are more business's started during downturns - than at any other time... People are finally "forced" to do something they always only dreamed about..

What do you dream about doing....

[Vegas69]

Always keep in mind that somebody is making money and taking advantage of a downturn in the economy. I said it in your last thread, attitude is everything. If you mope around whining about how bad the economy sucks all the time, you will believe it yourself. I have a really good friend that has said the Real Estate market sucks every year I've known him! We've been friends for 8 years! He was wrong atleast a few times. :rofl: You seem like a positive guy to me, but don't let the news beat you down. Make it happen while your young. This may very well be one of the best opportunites in your young life to do just that. :cheers:

[joemac]

These are all great pieces of advice that I wish someone told me when I was starting out.

1. What do you want to do, this will help get you motivated
2. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm, there are people that have it worse than you, be grateful for everything you have
3. Figure out how to do what you want, life is so much more than just working a job, but something you have to do to live in today's fast paced society, why not do something you enjoy

I hope this helps

[tones2SS]

Thanks for all the positive comments/posts guys. I really appreciate it. I am a positive guy and want to move forward.
I would really like to work in an automotive shop like COMP-SPEC or something similar to that. I would need training of course. (Pete and Brian @ Comp-Spec show me some stuff when I am there, which is very cool.)
Health care is another avenue that I am looking into. So, some possibilities, just gotta go for the gusto! And unemployment may pay for some of the schooling as well, which will help out a lot!
Again, thanks guys. I appreciate the comments/positive reinforcement.:lateral: :cheers:

[cowboybob]

I have decided to start my own small business. This was mentioned above and is what I recommend.

Joe...I'm thinking about doing the same thing and have been looking at several different types of small businesses.

I'm sure that it's frightening to take that first step. :_paranoid What kind of business did you start?

[youthpastor]

There are more business's started during downturns - than at any other time... People are finally "forced" to do something they always only dreamed about..

What do you dream about doing....


hmmm. I wanna build hot rods!!!

I am just nervous on when to jump and leave a good job:_paranoid

[fletcherscustoms]

Hell I wanna build cars for a living!! having a full time job and running the shop on nights and weekends takes a toll on you. But I just can't justify leaving a 6 figure job to do what I love. Even though there would be less heartache and more enjoyment even with less money. Seems like if the hsop does continue to grow, I'll be hiring folks and micro managing!!

AS fas as the original concern, I was talking to a friend of mine who is head of personel at local small hospital. She said they can't get enough help in radiology!! And that the field is growing across the country, and aren't enough people to fill the positions. yahoo also rated it a top paying job the other day

[GregWeld]

hmmm. I wanna build hot rods!!!

I am just nervous on when to jump and leave a good job:_paranoid

You don't "jump" until the opportunity is right... timing is everything... and you do have to live and eat while you're watching for the correct moment to make your move.

It's like what I said earlier - albeit a bit differently... but sometimes you have to work 2 or 3 jobs until you get noticed and can make a move.. which means in your case - you work full time - and build hot rods in your other full time... It takes longer and you won't have a life...

A quick story about a friend of mine. They owned a restaurant - worked FRIDAY and SATURDAY nights etc... made homemade soups - she has hilarious stories about chopping carrots etc. They bought a rental house - and in between tenants etc - did their own painting and cleaning. With this modest amount of success - they bought another... then bought a duplex... all of this over a 4 year period... but now they're running the restaurant AND still doing their own painting and clean up etc... which was becoming too much work. So they sold all of the rentals and bought a small apartment complex with about 20 units in it. They gave a "deal" on one of the units to a guy that worked full time - but doubled as their handyman. They continued with the restaurant and acquiring a couple more small apartment complexes. This was about 25 years ago... at some point they started to buy larger properties with the tried and true "LLC" investment style. They sold the restaurant and invested in their first "larger" complex with about 200 units. The LLC (limited liability Co) model is where they find the property - put up the earnest money (tie up the property) - then sell "shares" in the investment with a 'return' percentage (the ones I own with them pay 7%)... they raise 35 or 40% of the price from their investors and use this for the downpayment and improvements - they maintain 51% ownership and their company runs and manages the property for a percentage. They now control or own 100O's of units... and bought the house across from me (my old house on Yarrow Point) for 6 million dollars...

Did this happen overnight... oh hell no! It took YEARS of hard work... but I can tell you now that they're certainly enjoying the fruits of their labor.

[GregWeld]

Okay -- sorry -- had an appointment so couldn't finish out my train of thought... and I don't want to hijack this thread taking it from "help one guy - to helping someone else".. but some of these principles can be applied to other types of businesses or variations of it to help people get started.

SO --

Let's apply this "LLC" model to building a car (hot rod)... If you are an honest, hard working, do as you say type guy... then if you have a BUSINESS PLAN stating what you are going to do - how you plan to accomplish this - pre-plan for various pit falls etc... A guy building a car could go to 10 people with this plan - and sell shares in the plan for lets just say $4,000 per share. Half shares could be split if the half share purchaser finds someone to take the other half share... NOW you have $40,000 in capital to work with... and you've got to promise a return on the capital... with some known time frame etc.

So you buy the "car" and some of the parts etc with your own money - then CAPITALIZE the construction with the investors money.. upon sale of the completed project - you return the investors capital along with the prearranged 'return' (called interest) PLUS any growth on their capital investment.

For example - you buy a project for 25K - and you have 40K in capital investment - the project cost 75K to finish... you own 51% of the project - and the investors own 49%... if you sell the project for 120K -- then you have to calculate the return promised - and their share of the capital gain.

I don't want to do the math for this - but lets just say they invested 4K - and you promised 7% annual return and the project took one year to complete - so they get back their 4K plus $280 of interest - PLUS the gain on one share which was $1,000. So for their investment of 4K - for one year - they got back $5,280. And you made a gain as well... so you have more to work with for the next project. Now -- all those investors were quite happy with their investment - so are more likely to invest in the next project and so on.

You could use these shares - to buy portions of the project... You might give 2 shares (worth 8K) to the painter who will do the job for a bargain price to start with as an "investor" - so he also has some ownership which will make him do a bit better job since he stands to gain from this.... and maybe Jason takes a share for putting up wheels and tires... and someone else puts up a motor.

The difference in this way of doing the car - is that some cars get built out of "advertising budgets" for companies willing to help with parts... and my way - would be that - plus - investors providing CAPITAL - and suppliers (now investors) trading their skills or parts for a RETURN on investment.

In order to get the work done right - and on time - you might have to "partner" with someone that is willing to provide space and tools/work... for shares...

The key is - to get started - you under promise and over deliver. When you do this a few times - each time you can gather investors easier.. and build on your own capital investment... and build better projects.

This is all a simplified version - I don't want to write a friggin book here... but you get the drift.

[GregWeld]

So in order for this to work - and to support you for a LIVING (meager to start with) you might have to be working on 2 or 3 such projects... with 18 month build outs... and that's the hard part.

But if you start with ONE -- make a business out of it - do it right... have some luck - then next time you do TWO... get those done etc... then the following year you might be able to get a place on your own and do 3 investor projects plus a customer car... because once you showed off your skills with the investors cars - you might attract some CUSTOMER cars... Will this take some time? YEAH BUDDY -- but have a 5 year horizon... suffer some sleep deprivation -- have life get in the way... (bumps in the road) and maybe in 10 years you've achieved your dream.

The big deal is -- people never START on their dream - they just keep dreaming and the next thing you know - your 10 years have gone by and you've done ZIPPO... so quit dreaming and start WORKING toward that dream!!

By the way - this is all real easy for me to preach while I sit here in retirement... I don't have to actually do the suffering that will come with "my plan"... but I can try to inspire you.. and to get you to think in a way that perhaps you haven't before.

XOXO
Greg

[michael6372]

Michael.

Maybe it's time to go back to night school while you still have the opportunity and the job to support it. There must be something in the industry you're in - that could tie your current skills in with something say more high tech, if you had the training.

Living in Washington - we have many loggers - they have NO skills outside of whacking down trees.. or pulling green chain in a mill... the problem with that is that it's so single focus. No logging - no mill - no job. They all seem to go down together. What they needed to do was gain some additional skills while the logging was still booming (It's always been boom or bust here).

My Brother in law used to hump roofing... I told him that he needed to quit actually DOING the roofing - and start to contract that out - run the jobs - and take a percentage... to which he replied "I can't afford to do that"... I told him he couldn't afford NOT to do that... because it's one thing to hump roofing when you're in your 20's - but you're pay is limited by how many square you can do in a day... and how long your body will take the abuse. So after awhile he DID start to become a roofing contractor... then remodeler... then he got into commercial work. Now he builds MiniStorage units in 3 states... has many employees and even today his work is booming. I'll take no credit except to start him thinking that he must make the effort to "change" his situation. The rest was up to him.

There has to be something for everyone - that they love to do... and, that they can earn a living at. The key is to take the chance.

I tell my kids - "life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"... and it's so true. What I don't want them to do is to forget about making their plans - setting goals - and working towards them. It's not a straight line... never is...

What separates the 'broke / on a budget' but good race car driver from another one -- is that the good driver can win in a crappy car... and when he does that... the guys with good cars take notice and say - wow! If that guy can win driving that POS... imagine what he could do if he was driving for my race team. That's making your own "luck" - was he lucky - or did he push on despite all the hard work - working nights so he could race on Saturday... which finally got him noticed.

Now.... if I could just get my wife to take that 3rd job... I'd be all set!

:cheers:


Thanks for the reply! I have thought about school, the problem with that is I work swing shift. That makes going back to school impossible. I have tried to move to a different department in the mill so I can just work day shift but there are no openings. My company is trying to reduce the number of workers at our mill and our union contract expired about 16 months ago. If the company gets their way with the contract they are offering, they will be able to cut 20-25% of the workforce here(about 200-250 jobs). The town I live in has only 13,000 people and the job outlook here is very bad. There are alot of things I would love to do for a living. Living in such a small, older community makes it hard to start a business that will be successful. I have seen many people try to start a business here only to have it closed within a year, just not enough people to support it. Sorry for sounding so negative, just trying to give an idea what it's like here. I have thought about trying to start something online so location isn't a major factor to being successful. I do not have very much experience besides working on the family farm and the paper mill(I also filled oxygen cylinders for a medical co. for 5 yrs). Work ethic isn't a problem, I think my lack of experience and not having a degree is what's hurting me the most. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do and how did you get there? Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!

Michael.

[GregWeld]

Okay --- I'll continue on my soap box for one last post...

To do what I'm saying -- might involve selling your house and living off the equity (becoming a renter during the build)... it might involve (if you're young) living in your parents basement for a year... it most likely WILL involve some sacrifice in order to get started. You MIGHT fail... You might use up all the equity you got when you sold your house - and the project doesn't get completed (because you're a lazy POS and don't have the skills you thought you had...) or the market for what you built just isn't there.... BUT at least you would have TRIED and would have LEARNED and would have given it your best shot.

Now -- Remember my buddy I told you about that worked his fingers to the bone with a restaurant and buying poopie little rental houses - and building on this and working for 20 years to get somewhere... here's his house - across Cozy Cove from from my house (old house - I SACRIFICED THIS HOUSE IN ORDER TO MOVE TO A PLACE WHERE I COULD HAVE A SHED FOR MY CARS -- which was more important to me - than to have this view...)

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Latestphotos017.jpg

[awr68]

Greg, we should have coffee sometime....there's a lot I could learn!! :cheers: <---coffee

Nice pic of your friends house!!

[GregWeld]

Thanks for the reply! I have thought about school, the problem with that is I work swing shift. That makes going back to school impossible. I have tried to move to a different department in the mill so I can just work day shift but there are no openings. My company is trying to reduce the number of workers at our mill and our union contract expired about 16 months ago. If the company gets their way with the contract they are offering, they will be able to cut 20-25% of the workforce here(about 200-250 jobs). The town I live in has only 13,000 people and the job outlook here is very bad. There are alot of things I would love to do for a living. Living in such a small, older community makes it hard to start a business that will be successful. I have seen many people try to start a business here only to have it closed within a year, just not enough people to support it. Sorry for sounding so negative, just trying to give an idea what it's like here. I have thought about trying to start something online so location isn't a major factor to being successful. I do not have very much experience besides working on the family farm and the paper mill(I also filled oxygen cylinders for a medical co. for 5 yrs). Work ethic isn't a problem, I think my lack of experience and not having a degree is what's hurting me the most. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do and how did you get there? Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!

Michael.


Michael,

I retired at 40 - in order to stay home and raise my own kids rather than have them in daycare... I was a factory rep in the furniture biz (wholesale to the trade)... and traveled a 4 state area. My wife started to work for a startup company in 1984 for HALF the money she was used to, working for a big bank... The banks at that time were all having troubles. So she went to work at a small company (600 employees at the time) Microsoft (nobody had ever heard of them then!). I live in Bellevue, WA. When I quit working - there was a "promise" that MSFT might become something - and it was more important to us to have our kids have parents than it was for the parents to drive BMW's.... WE got real real lucky... it all worked out. But at the time the decisions were made - it was just "the right thing to do at that time". She traveled and worked about 80 hours a week... I traveled and was gone for trade shows etc... we enjoyed hall sex (pass each other in the hallway and say F U)... I'm very very lucky to live around other very successful people. I listen to their stories and learn from them. Not one of them ever dreamed to be where they are now. They all worked long and hard and suffered setbacks etc. But the difference in being successful and not - is that they were WILLING to put in the effort - whatever that is (and it's different for everyone). And not only were they willing - they DID. They're DOERS.. There's doers and there's dreamers... I'd prefer to hang with the doers... Sometimes the doers fail even after gaining success... but most of the time - they recover - because they're still doers...

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Greg, we should have coffee sometime....there's a lot you could tech me!! :cheers: <---coffee


Anthony --

We're having coffee right now buddy!

EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

You have my email... I have the time... and am WILLING to help or to listen or to "whatever".

By the way -- I'm sorry to all for being on the soap box about all of this. It's easy for me because I'm damn fortunate... but if I can help to inspire someone - even just one of you - to DO better for yourself - then I'm happy. I'm NOT trying to say it's easy - or that anyone can do it... what I'm saying is that if you're willing to learn - and to try - and to ask for help when you need it - and to do whatever it takes without limits and without the "I can't do that" pre conditions. Then perhaps there is a chance.

Guess the old saying - "you'll never know until you try" kind of makes sense here huh?

[awr68]

Job Change? I think of this often! I am 38 and have been in construction for a very long time and it has taken a toll...but mostly I would like to be more 'successful' and that isn't going to happen being an hourly worker with no real benefits. I have worked for my uncle and now cousin for over 20 yrs...they do ok, but nobody is getting rich...especially in these times!

I get so worried about getting jobs done that I never think about what I would really like to be doing. I guess I fall under the 'hard worker' not 'dreamer' title.

Things that are holding me back:

Bills, Bills, Bills
Have no idea what I 'want' to do
Basic education
Scared to leave a job that 'pays the bills'
Scared to loose my house if it doesn't work out
But mostly I have no idea what I would 'like' to do

I know that I can't do my job forever...but sadly I'm having a real hard time taking that first step into something that might save my body and give my family a more financially secure life.

[awr68]

Anthony --

We're having coffee right now buddy!

EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

You have my email... I have the time... and am WILLING to help or to listen or to "whatever".

By the way -- I'm sorry to all for being on the soap box about all of this. It's easy for me because I'm damn fortunate... but if I can help to inspire someone - even just one of you - to DO better for yourself - then I'm happy. I'm NOT trying to say it's easy - or that anyone can do it... what I'm saying is that if you're willing to learn - and to try - and to ask for help when you need it - and to do whatever it takes without limits and without the "I can't do that" pre conditions. Then perhaps there is a chance.

Guess the old saying - "you'll never know until you try" kind of makes sense here huh?


Thanks Greg!! :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Boy -- this is turning into a real thread jacker!

LOL

Anthony -- Not much point in "changing" something that is working for you... ESPECIALLY if you don't have a burning desire to do something "else".

I could turn this thread into a book....

Okay -- so you or anyone else that is okay doing what they are doing - but aren't where they want to be... need to think a bit outside the box. What if you became a Sub Contractor - rather then doing the actual work... or where you had some form of 'both' to get started - where you are a sub with your own employees (hourly workers) and worked for your cousin - AND some other builder... where you could pitch in and work - but maybe only work 6 hours a day - and then went to check on - run - and bid on - other jobs. You might have to do this in a different town - in order not to compete with your current situation... This might not be "profitable" until you reached a point where you can just bid and manage - rather than do any work...

No matter what - if you're paid an hourly wage to do a certain job - you're NEVER going to get 'ahead'. Whatever that 'ahead' is for you... because you have a finite amount of time per day and the job only pays "X".

Maybe that you - or anyone... when I use the "you" name - might be able to sell something on the side - on line - or as a rep on commission = to the trade that you're in. I actually inquired about buying a couple of Snap-on routes... I figured I'd buy the trucks and inventory - and let a couple of buddies drive them and do the work... But Snap-on only allows owners to work their routes -- so that was out... But I've bought air nailers and titanium hammers from a truck that came in the neighborhood to supply a house that was being built... the guy sold nails and ladders and carpenter stuff out of his van - ala a Snap-on guy. But it was his own deal not a franchise.

One guy I know went to school and got his real estate license... he doesn't cold call - he actually "supports" a larger broker in the area... he sits open houses on the weekends for her... and takes calls etc when she's gone or busy... she pays him to sit the house - and he gains experience etc while he learns and earns... if he gets someone from the open house - that wants to go see some other houses - that 'customer' becomes his.. and if he sells them something or lists there house - he pays a small percent to his "boss". This way he can keep his "day job" and still learn and build a new business.

I bought a NOS cowl hood from a guy off eBay. He was in the area so I picked it up... his house had Camaro parts in every possible place - including the living room... and he had a computer... he listed this stuff on eBay -- and boxed and shipped it himself... it took him awhile - but he told me that he was able to finally quit his job and do this full time. His house was his warehouse... so he had little overhead... he could work all night -- or all day - and as long as he had a computer - he could answer questions and follow bids etc. Was he getting rich - hell no! But he was doing what he liked - was his own boss - was home... and was happy as a clam.. so by that standard he was SUCCESSFUL. Success isn't always measured in $$ -- sometimes it's just living and doing what makes you happy. Like a priest... or a lawyer that helps indigent people pro bono...

[70rs]

Greg,
I appreciate all of your advice. Thank you.

[GregWeld]

Eric --

I wasn't really trying to give "advice"... rather... I was trying to toss out some ways of thinking... or looking at... how you'd go about a career change (the actual subject). It was more an open discussion.... while I was writing a book on the subject (lol)... and trying to get people to THINK about how they might go about this.

IT is so dang difficult. Easy to say - not easy to do. Suffering and sacrifice is not something many of us are willing to actually DO. Oh... for a week or a month maybe - but 5 years of living in a "shack" in order to start a business with the equity you once had in a very comfortable house... is a whole 'nother can of beans.

I fully understand not wanting to change the status quo.

However, like Michaels story... his town/company is dying... the cards are on the table... Do you do NOTHING? And wait for the train to hit you... or do you get off the track NOW and get started in "whatever" it is that would have a future?

If I worked for GM... or Chrysler... or an auto parts supplier to these companies -- I'd be working right now on something other than that industry. If I was a home builder... I'd now be a remodeler and I'd be trying to buy ****ty houses that are foreclosed on and fixing them up as rentals or re-sales... even if that took "partners"/"investors" ala my LLC idea...

TODD is right when he says there is an opportunity out there somewhere... but you have to look for it -- and then be willing to ACT on it. Remember something -- when the news says there's 15% unemployment -- that means what to you? To me... it means that 85% are still working... What are they doing differently than you? What industry... what job...

A quick aside ---

The other day I read where the owner of PAPA JOHNS pizza bought his old Camaro back - and paid $250K for it. He sold it years before in order to invest in his "pizza biz"... he didn't want to sell his beloved car - but did - in order to keep his pizza dream going... He now was able to pay whatever he wanted to in order to get his car back. It's a symbol to him... of the suffering he endured... that is now a huge success. GOOD FOR HIM!!

I would have just kept the old Camaro... and went to work selling shoes..

:>)

[awr68]

Greg,
I appreciate all of your advice. Thank you.

X2!!!

[awr68]

I guess another thing that is holding me back is that I don't really want to attend night school and miss out on the evenings with my 5 year old son. But at the same time, I would like to be able to pay for his college education when the time comes without stressing about it!

Good stuff guys....let's keep this 'open discussion' going!

[70rs]

I totally get what you are saying. And what Todd said about the opportunities being out there and having to chase them down.

I see opportunities. A lot of them. And I am going after them.
If I fail, I will just have to try again.

Life is too short to sit on my ass and do nothing. Waiting for something to fall in my lap. I have never been that way and refuse to become that guy.

:thumbsup:

[70rs]

I guess another thing that is holding me back is that I don't really want to attend night school and miss out on the evenings with my 5 year old son. But at the same time, I would like to be able to pay for his college education when the time comes without stressing about it!

Good stuff guys....let's keep this 'open discussion' going!

I am in the same boat Tony. I just can not stand to miss the time with my son. BUT...do I sacrifice a little time now so he has a better shot at his own life later (like going to college) or do I just let it ride and hope for the best?

I would rather give up the time now to help ensure he has every opportunity he could possibly want later in his life.

If I try something on my own now and blow it I still have time to recover and try again before that tuition bill comes due.

[GregWeld]

Okay --- Here's another "thought" or scenario to toss about.

Let's take the guy that started the capenter tools / nails truck/van.

He gets a backer or he borrows against his house - or he sells his boat and buys this "van" and 25K worth of inventory. He knows what inventory to buy - because he worked in the industry - so understands the wants and needs of his prospective customers.

Rule #1: YOU'VE GOT TO KNOW YOUR MARKET!

Now... He starts out with a lot of "risk". He's got inventory - he's got a van - he's got overhead in insurance... fuel... time... and payments to make.

Rule # 2: He is WILLING to take the risk and he is willing to lose it all and start over.

Okay -- so he does his homework and figures out a economical "route" from job site to job site. He is going to have to spend a LOT of time stopping and talking to the work guys. He needs to schedule this when THEY can take the time - or he has to be willing to WAIT a half hour or so - so that he's not disturbing the production. TIME IS MONEY.. but he is also making an INVESTMENT with his time at this point.

So the guys start to visit his truck -- he has the right stuff @ the right price and he has it NOW... if he comes back on FRIDAY (Payday) they'd buy "X" hammer... or that new compressor... Could he take payments? Maybe $50 a week?

Lesson: There are people out there called FACTORS. They will buy your "receivable" from you. There are rules and details here I'll not explain - but you'd need to hook up with the FACTOR FIRST to see what they do and what they want/need from you. FACTORS pay you for your invoice - and then you collect the money for them - or they might collect it themselves - but they pay you up front for the invoice - giving you the money you need to replenish your inventory. There is a COST to this -- but it can work out very well. You can sell your stuff on "time" - so getting sales you might not otherwise get... and establish that "supplier customer" relationship.

You have to come around on the route every "X" day... and at "X" time when possible... you have to be RELIABLE. This way - when customer A needs nails -- he knows you're going to be there on X day... If you don't show - he has to get his nails somewhere else. You also should be "on call" -- be available to deliver X goods any time at a moments notice -- and BE HAPPY TO DO THAT! Even if it means you might actually lose money on the transaction but you KEEP a customer! You might have to drive all the way across town to get two $30 hammers... which makes you up at 5:30 AM the next day to get them to the guy before he starts work... OH WELL... that's what you do!

Are you going to get rich? Probably not... but if you're really clever - and your business is well run... you might end up with two trucks - and then 3 and then expand to the next town... and you might add Ladders to your mix... and you might end up in the office instead of driving and delivering... and you might be 50 before that can happen... and you might be carrying your own receivables instead of selling to a factor.. and your kid is the warehouse manager... so all's good.

:woot:

[GregWeld]

Okay -- here's another....

RAT RODS are HOT...

You might - if you're clever and can think in those terms - start building RAT RODS in your spare time. The welding doesn't get smoothed - you can paint with primer... you can use swap meet parts bought on the cheap or given to you..

Now -- you might only make $1500 bucks on a 12K sale.... but these don't take years to build - and you don't have much invested... you can do this with your eyes closed! You can have FUN sipping beer with the boys coming up with the next whacked out 'idea' to do....

In the meantime - you're using the 'extra' money you've made - to buy tools for a "real car" -- or for parts... or to help defray the rent on your very own personal "shed".....

Is this how you want to use your considerable skills? No... but it's a way to help you get supported while doing what you REALLY want to do.

The other thing is -- if you have a customer paying for his own car to be done.... MAYBE -- if he's really happy with your work... he'd entertain building a car "on spec" with you. Him being the banker - you being the builder... It's just an "investment" -- a "spec" car... but building cars like that can get you noticed - or get you another high end customer... or any customer for that matter....

Look at the relationship between Mark Stielow and Charley.... Mark knows (I'm using an example here) Charley is "interested" in almost anything he would build... I don't know this -- I'm just using a name you all know -- for an example. I'm sure this relationship has been built over many years... So Mark wants to build some whacked out over the top killer Pro car.. So he approaches Charley with his ideas on paper - he has a rendering... he has a list of major components... he has a cost base. He and Charley modify this a bit - and Charley sets up a "line of credit" Mark can draw on (meeting certain requirements in order to draw - approved by Charley) to do the build... and when it's finished - They've agreed in advance that MARK gets the credit and gets to take the car on tour to "X" shows... and then Charley takes delivery at a pre-determined price. Mark gets to build what he wants - has fun - learns - and gains valuable name recognition/reputation... Charley gets a kick ass build that already has value built in - and has fun watching it being built - and better yet - gets the end result in the process... for a bargain price - because Mark never factored in all the hours it took to build. They both got what they wanted.

Sorry Mark and Charley -- I took your names and used it them without permission. This is only a made up example. I have no idea what or how you do what you do... I'm just tossing out ideas for others here. I hope I have not offended you.

[tones2SS]

Actually did some searching of schools in the area which have medical certification/training/degrees. I spoke with one school today and am getting ready to call another tomorrow morning. (I can only send out so many resumes keeping my fingers crossed hoping someone will hire me. It bothers me. Can't take it any more.)
I was working in the print industry. An electronic prepress operator to be exact. It's not so much that the internet is taking over, it's that print sales are weak, most in part because the advertising that goes into the print, (i.e. magazines/newspaper ads), that are suffering, thus causing print shops to do lay offs/close doors. People are not spending money on items, therefor no need to advertise, therefor no need to print. Vicious circle!!:willy:
I'm glad I posted this question!! Greg, you have some great insight. We think a like!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[GregWeld]

Yeah Tonnes... I have a buddy here with a print shop - business isn't exactly "robust" right now that's for sure.

He's also had to reinvest heavily into new capabilities -- some big azz machine that does "giclees" or something like that? It can print big "banners" that are more like real oil paintings... anyway - that's a whole new biz opportunity over the fliers he was doing...

[tones2SS]

Yeah Tonnes... I have a buddy here with a print shop - business isn't exactly "robust" right now that's for sure.

He's also had to reinvest heavily into new capabilities -- some big azz machine that does "giclees" or something like that? It can print big "banners" that are more like real oil paintings... anyway - that's a whole new biz opportunity over the fliers he was doing...

Yeah, times are tough everywhere, not just the print shops unfortunately. But, I hope things turn around for your friend. I hate to see anyone lose their job/livelihood because of the this mess. How big is his shop?
Yeah, they have a new "technology" now with digital printing or called large format printing. We had a separate department for that where I had worked.
It's just a shame. To think that I actually LOVED going to work, didn't mind getting up @ 5 AM every morning to get there @ 6:30 AM, work all day and have fun with the other guys while getting paid for it all and be out of there around 3 PM!!:thumbsup: :cheers:
(The shop was making a million dollars in sales some months last year!! We were only a shop of about 90 employees. I think we were rated like # 279 out of the 500 top print shops in the US.)

[GregWeld]

I'm not sure how many guys Jim has - my guess is 6 tops...

HEY!! Look at it this way... YOU could have had 50 million dollars invested - be 72 years old - own multiple homes - a couple big azz boats - nice cars and a lavish lifestyle... but your money was all invested with Bernard Madoff...

You have your health - I would assume a good family - a decent support system... and there IS a future for you.

[tones2SS]

I'm not sure how many guys Jim has - my guess is 6 tops...

HEY!! Look at it this way... YOU could have had 50 million dollars invested - be 72 years old - own multiple homes - a couple big azz boats - nice cars and a lavish lifestyle... but your money was all invested with Bernard Madoff...

You have your health - I would assume a good family - a decent support system... and there IS a future for you.

You are exactly right!!:cheers:
If all goes as planned, I'm more than likely going to school for some sort of medical training, be it medical assistant, medical biller/coder or a radiologist. In other words, something in the health care industry.:thumbsup:

[joemac]

Joe...I'm thinking about doing the same thing and have been looking at several different types of small businesses.

I'm sure that it's frightening to take that first step. :_paranoid What kind of business did you start?

I decided to become an Independent Amsoil Dealer. I am pleased with my decision so far. I started in mid July and am not setting any records but slowly building momentum. I am a sponsor over on Pro-touring.com.

I also have a biodiesel coop project I am trying to get organized, I am finally finding some people who want to work with me on it.

Small business is not easy but is the only thing I have found that can keep my interest and provide the kind of challenge and mental stimulation I crave.

[GregWeld]

THERE YA GO!!! :cheers: :woot:

[joemac]

Greg,

I just wanted to say you provided some great stuff in this thread. I think so many people want that instant gratification that they can't stand to scrape by for a while and come out in a much better situation.

Also another good thought, only take advice from people who are in the position you want to be in. If you want to start your own business, don't take advice from people working a job and in debt up to their eye balls living pay check to pay check. Of course they are going to tell you don't be stupid just go get a job. Find some people who encourage you and who have been there before.

[GregWeld]

Thanks Joe.

I was just trying to "help"... or show some light... or stir the pot as it was. I'm certainly no smarter than the next guy - and I've been more than fortunate... so maybe it's a way for me to give back.

There are so many ways to improve your situation IF (BIG IF) you are really willing to put yourself out a bit. I do believe in making your own luck. No guts, no glory.

I'm glad to hear you're putting forth the 'effort'. Nobody said it was going to be easy - or simple - or a straight line up. I wish you all the best in your endeavor.

[michael6372]

Greg,

I just wanted to say you provided some great stuff in this thread. I think so many people want that instant gratification that they can't stand to scrape by for a while and come out in a much better situation.

Also another good thought, only take advice from people who are in the position you want to be in. If you want to start your own business, don't take advice from people working a job and in debt up to their eye balls living pay check to pay check. Of course they are going to tell you don't be stupid just go get a job. Find some people who encourage you and who have been there before.

X2:thumbsup: Thank you for all of you input. In times like this, it's always great to have cool people to talk to that are willing to help, even if it's just to listen and offer advice. :bow:

[tones2SS]

Greg,

I just wanted to say you provided some great stuff in this thread. I think so many people want that instant gratification that they can't stand to scrape by for a while and come out in a much better situation.

Also another good thought, only take advice from people who are in the position you want to be in. If you want to start your own business, don't take advice from people working a job and in debt up to their eye balls living pay check to pay check. Of course they are going to tell you don't be stupid just go get a job. Find some people who encourage you and who have been there before.

Very good point!:cheers:

[doitbby]

if you are interested in doing x-ray, let me know. ive been doing it know for 18 years. i can give you a little insight on the field.

[tones2SS]

if you are interested in doing x-ray, let me know. ive been doing it know for 18 years. i can give you a little insight on the field.

Do you like it? Do you work in a hospital or a clinic? Does it pay well?
Thanks in advance!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[doitbby]

sent you a pm

[tones2SS]

sent you a pm

Got it. Thank you!!:cheers:

[caper150]

I am in the middle right now, I started back to school for law enforcement 8 weeks ago.I lost my job in Jan. and had to wait to go back. I am having some of it paid for by a program called the dislocated worker program through the local Workforce Development Center, I am a little luckier than others in the program with me as I already have a 2 yr degree so I only need the core law enforcement courses, so I will be done in 2 semesters.There is not much in MFG any more and I really don't want to go back any way. This is something I should have done a long time ago.

[tones2SS]

Yeah, that sucks to hear Darryl.
I hope it all turns around for you. GOOD LUCK!:thumbsup: