Bandsaw?

[BBC71Nova]

Any suggestions on a decent and reasonably priced vertical bandsaw capable of cutting metal?

Right now I'm looking at the Craftsman wood/metal unit. I think the multi-speed setup might help me get more use out of it and thus help justify the expenditure :yes: . Dake, etc are nice but waaay too much for my home setup.

John

[XcYZ]

The Craftsman won't work for cutting metal, you just can't slow the blade speed down enough unless you're cutting very soft metals (brass, aluminum). Off the top of my head, I believe you want to be in the 100 ft/min range for cutting typical metal/steel. I had a Craftsman bandsaw and it just burned up the blade in seconds when trying to cut exhaust tubing. I bought a metal cutting bandsaw and what a difference, works awesome.

As another option, have you considered a handheld bandsaw? You can mount them to a portable table and work great. :thumbsup:

[BBC71Nova]

Scott,

Did you have the Craftsman Professional wood/metal unit? The one I'm talking about is big. Comes in a 15" and 18" model. Floor standing setup. Below is excerpt from the 15" model description. I was thinking this slow speed would be acceptable?

...4 speeds: 2800 fpm for wood, 80/150/200 fpm for metal/plastics. 1-1/2 hp max. dev. motor, 115/230 volts. 14-5/8 in. throat capacity w/8-1/2 in. max depth cut/90 deg.

John

[Fluid Power]

I bought a Wilton from Enco. It works great. Enco has coupons all the time for free shipping or 20% off. Every now and then they will overlap. I paid about a grand for mine 4-5 years ago.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=505-1372&PMPXNO=953995&PARTPG=INLMK3

Keep an eye on craigslist as well.

Darren

[JRouche]

Scott,

Did you have the Craftsman Professional wood/metal unit? The one I'm talking about is big. Comes in a 15" and 18" model. Floor standing setup. Below is excerpt from the 15" model description. I was thinking this slow speed would be acceptable?

...4 speeds: 2800 fpm for wood, 80/150/200 fpm for metal/plastics. 1-1/2 hp max. dev. motor, 115/230 volts. 14-5/8 in. throat capacity w/8-1/2 in. max depth cut/90 deg.

John

That looks like it might fit the bill. See if you can find out if it uses rubber tires on the wheels. If so that might be a problem. The lower blade speeds are just fine for metal. And really, the blade choice makes ALL the diff. Get a good Starrett or Morse blade and it will be nice. JR

[BBC71Nova]

Thanks guys!

I'll see if I can get more info on the Craftsman unit. I don't think it is a big seller for them so getting info is tough. I've seen it go on sale for about $950 at times.

I had also completely forgotten that Enco sells equipment like this. They email me coupons all the time. With a coupon that Wilton would be reasonable. It has more slower speeds so that sounds good.

John

[Fluid Power]

Enco just emailed me a code for 15% off, it would make the price $1183.16 w/o freight.

Darren

[GregWeld]

I have a Wilton - 14" METAL variable speed vertical band saw... it's really a wimpy band saw at best - but for "home" it will make cuts. I find myself using just about anything else unless there's just no other way to cut something.

The two handiest metal cutters I have -- a #2 Beverly shear.... and my Italian cold cut saw (about a grand). The cold cut saw came from Trick Tools.

If I was to do it over again - I'd buy a larger more powerful bandsaw -- maybe one from Grizzly Tools.... but I SO HATE to buy Chinese stuff of ANY KIND... and that's what keeps me from getting one of those. I agree with you on the Dake etc... that is just so overkill for a "home" shop... but trust me on wimping out and getting a low end version. You'll be sorry you did. Buy "up" if at all possible!

I think ENCO makes a horizontal version that can also be "switched" to a vertical position... now that would be pretty handy!

This is the one ENCO makes -- and even though it might be fairly wimpy -- it has versatility - which my Wilton does NOT have.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=573&PMCTLG=00


This is the WILTON version I own - and I can tell you it was a waste of money!

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=578&PMITEM=505-1372

[Roger M]

As another option, have you considered a handheld bandsaw? You can mount them to a portable table and work great. :thumbsup:

There is a guy over on PT that makes and sells the stands for the Porta-band Millwaukee. Here is the link (http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51379&highlight=portaband) to the thread. Looks like he has a nice product.

[GregWeld]

So I don't want to sound like some kind of a tool expert... but having a fairly substantial home shop gives me a little insight on some of these tools.

The main "hang up" with a small band saw - and the one thing that will LIMIT your use - is the THROAT dimension. Mine is 14" -- and that has limited my use of it on several occasions.

The small hand band saws are great for a "cut off" saw... on small diameter materials... but you can use a much less expensive cut off saw for that kind of work. They'll make straight and angle cuts to 45 degrees... I have two like this - one uses an abrasive wheel and one uses a blade that looks like a wood blade... For our limited use - the abrasive blades are "fine"... and cut well enough. BEWARE the MESS they make in the shop! Everything gets covered in the abrasive and the metal dust. That is what I hate about them. The saw (14" blade) that uses the metal blade that looks like a wood blade - is even WORSE as far as mess and clean up. That dang thing throws the sharpest little bits of curled steel!! They're everywhere after one cut - they're hot - and they're sharp as slivers! They get in your shoes - your clothes and anything else they can cling to! Hate that saw - but it's handy for those couple of times when I need to cut something long and big.

You'll use the band saw for cutting something of shape -- smaller parts -- brackets etc... and a home version that you'd buy is "okay" for this... just don't expect much for under $1500 -- and from there they seem to jump dramatically.

[Fluid Power]

Holy smokes Greg! I think you are being a little hard on the Wilton. The guy wanted home use and was looking at Craftsman for god sake. While the throat size is limited, I find that with the correct (good quality)blade for the job, along with using the right pulley selection given the material, it performs as expected. It works. Taking the time to set the machine up correctly gives me good results. Blade quality is paramount. Is it as good as a Dake or Doall? By no means. With that being said, for a home shop, it is better than Craftsman, and better than a porta-band. The issue with the combo vertical/horizontal saws is that while they work great as a drop saw, they make dangerous vertical saws. With minimal surface to use when cutting shapes, it is a trip to the hospital for sure. Just my opinion. :thumbsup:

Darren

[gtotto]

The Craftsman won't work for cutting metal, you just can't slow the blade speed down enough unless you're cutting very soft metals (brass, aluminum). Off the top of my head, I believe you want to be in the 100 ft/min range for cutting typical metal/steel. I had a Craftsman bandsaw and it just burned up the blade in seconds when trying to cut exhaust tubing. I bought a metal cutting bandsaw and what a difference, works awesome.

As another option, have you considered a handheld bandsaw? You can mount them to a portable table and work great. :thumbsup:

I'm no expert but can't you find a 110volt "variable speed" adapter at an electrical supply house to slow the crafstman motor down?? Just a thought

[GregWeld]

Darren.... Too funny!

Yeah -- I'm kind of a tool snob.... and I hate low end tools to start with... so my "thoughts" on the Wilton might be a bit harsh - but I'd prefer to tell it like it is - and let the buyer beware... than to say "oh... it's a pretty good saw -- it's okay"... when it really isn't. It's home use - at best... and I think I was trying to see if he really needed a band saw... over getting something else that he might use more...

It's kind of like using a 'nibbler' for shaping a piece of sheet metal... yeah - it will work... yeah I have one... actually have a couple of them -- but I'd rather do almost anything else than use them. There are tools like that - that you can get a similar tool that does just as good of a job.. and might be more handy on a limited budget.

I agree on your thoughts on the Horz/Vert saws -- but if it were me -- I'd make up a piece to use as a table to give me more stability -- if that's what the saw needed. Again - I was thinking of a guy being on a budget - and trying to get a tool that can be used for various cuts.

Two tools in my "shed" that I wish I'd have done "better" - my mill/drill... and my vertical band saw. Both will be the first tools to be replaced. The Mill/Drill is a Jet --- and is actually a great drill press... but it's a lousy mill and just doesn't have to guts to really mill anything. Yeah - it works... and I can make it work... but I'd really like to have a "decent" milling machine... I'll keep it as a back up and a drill press...

You know my thoughts on the Wilton saw... I just should have bought a slightly larger - more HP version - more throat - and a more "precision" piece. LOL Having said that -- I've hot rodded this saw - with roller guides - killer blades - brushes on the rollers. :rofl:

[JRouche]

I'm no expert but can't you find a 110volt "variable speed" adapter at an electrical supply house to slow the crafstman motor down?? Just a thought

The craftsman has 80/150/200fpm speeds, perfect for all metals. JR

[JRouche]

Darren.... Too funny!

Yeah -- I'm kind of a tool snob.... and I hate low end tools to start with...

Hey, Im with you on decent tools. But sometimes the budget dictates the tool. I started out with crappy tools, then just above crappy then to some decent stuff intermingled with the crap.

For example, drill presses. Started with a hand held drill. Then a hand held in a holder wanna be drill press, then a nice lil ryobi 14" drill press, then a harbor freight 20" hunker that was powerful enough but the electrics were bad and the spindle was not too accurate. Then to my current clausing 20" with power down feed and variable speed.

Same thing with my lathes and mills. Now I have a decent southbed 10" for the long work, a really nice monarch 10" for the precision and a cnc for the contoured stuff. Two cnc mills and a sweet lil clausing horizontal.

And this is all home shop stuff cause well, thats where Im at, home :)

I would love to have a nice used dake, but I ran outta floor. Someone stole it all and if I catch them its ON!!!! Cant blame my wife for stealing the floor, she doesnt have anything in there. Someone did it though Errrr.... JR

[GregWeld]

Darren,

We've stole the thread here with our tool talk... Sorry to the originator! Really!

The one thing that affects everyone is "budget" - even guys with big budgets have to call it somewhere...

What I've tried to do - is to maximize the usefulness within a limited floor space... and that's what most home guys are trying to do - most likely in a 2 or 3 car garage.

I have to tell you -- as you already know -- that, is a tough thing to do! There are tools I'd just love to have - and are in my 'budget' - but aren't in the "maximize use / floor space" budget. With that in mind... that's what I was going for in the discussion on the bandsaw...

My shop is 1500 sq feet... many more times the average guys garage... and yes - many times smaller than some of them on here! I wish I had the space! But Urban living at it's finest precludes that... my wife just isn't into the smell of cows (Grin). I sure wish I had the knowledge/skill to run some of the stuff you have!! WOW!

Sitting here thinking about it - most of us are only going to build a couple of cars -- and tinker with a few more... we really are not going to wear these tools out any time soon. And since our TIME is actually FREE... if the saw takes a bit longer to cut some 1/4" aluminum plate... so what. I guess that's what separates 'us' from the 'pros'... we don't have the space... and we're not going to use the tools to the point of destruction. If I was going to make headers all day - I'd buy a killer band saw - and if I was building tube frames I'd have a $4K tube notcher... but as it is - I have to trace the tube and hand grind it on my Burr King... and finish it with the die grinder or angle grinder... But I can TIG weld it in place! Because that is a "tool" that I use all the time - for many things - large and small... multiple metals...

I was just thinking - I've actually used my variable speed jig saw - with bi metal blades - to cut more "scroll" type work than I have the band saw. And I can cut exhaust pipe with a $150 abrasive chop saw... or for that matter - I've used a sawzall for exhaust work as well as many other cuts.... But -- I can do that because I invested in a very nice vice to hold it... and a killer metal work table to clamp stuff to and to do layout work etc.

[XcYZ]

The craftsman has 80/150/200fpm speeds, perfect for all metals. JR


The Craftsman free standing bandsaw I used didn't have those low blade speeds. That would have helped tremendously. :thumbsup:


I have this Shop Fox unit, works great.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Rc7Unq2-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[GregWeld]

Nice saw Scott!!
:thumbsup:

[Bryce]

i bought the Delta from sears and thorugh in a good aluminum blade. works great since most of my fab work is out of aluminum. But my idea for steel was to buy a new higher horsepower motor and build a gear reduction or just buy a variable speed motor to slow it down.

[JRouche]

I have this Shop Fox unit, works great.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Rc7Unq2-L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

Thats the same saw I have cept under a diff name. They are all from china and a common model number is UE-712. Great saw!!!! I use some good but messy oil based coolant and a Morse blade. It cut stainless and steel with ease. Set it and forget it, walk away and listen for the clank when the cutouff hits the floor. I havent used it vertically yet. I use my bosch jig saw and bi-metal blades or my plasma for shape type cuts. JR

[XcYZ]

I wasn't excited that it was from China - not sure what I'd have to do for replacement parts, say, 15 years from now, but it's been a great tool. I've used it vertically a number ot times, it's on the clumsy side as you work over the base, but it's a very handy feature. I would definitely buy it again. :thumbsup:

[BBC71Nova]

So after looking into a few of these brands mentioned I think I like this one from Grizzly. Specs seem good on this specific saw and reviews of Grizzly seem to be OK as well. It is a larger saw than the 15" Craftsman so it costs about 400 more depending on sale prices at the time and shipping. Grizzly has "free shipping" sort of baked into their price.

17in. Metal/Wood G0640X (http://grizzly.com/products/17-Metal-Wood-Bandsaw-w-Inverter-Motor/G0640X)

http://grizzly.com/images/pics/jpeg288/g/g0640x.jpg

I also looked at Rikon which has a new saw coming out this Fall (http://www.rikontools.com/productpage_10-370.htm) but will retail in the $2200 range. I don't know for sure but I wonder if it is this same saw with another name on it and only minimal changes. Sure looks similar.

John

[GregWeld]

John -- This is the saw I SHOULD HAVE COULD HAVE bought... and went for the Wilton name instead... stupid me!

Nice saw.

[GregWeld]

Side by side the specs for the two saws are almost identical - the Rikon lists the motor as 2 1/2 HP -- but even these specs (like the old detroit ratings) are subject to interpretation... The Grizzly is rated at 2 HP (plenty) and the Grizzly is actually 33 lbs heavier. I've been happy with the stuff I've bought from them - although (because it's chinese) I've not bought much. The engine shop I use - Jim Green Performance (of old funny car fame) has a bunch of their stuff - and they use it commercially... and are happy.

The Rikon saw has 5 degrees more tilt in one direction than the Grizzly -- but I don't think that would make me want to wait - and or pay more for it.

[Rick D]

The shop that I used to be next to had one from Grizzly with the built in blade welder and it worked great. I used it many time to make stuff. They use it to make alot of twin turbo parts and such. Although it is off shore which I try to avoid buying but I will be buying one from them in the near future.