My 69 Camaro, Apollo 13

[DFRESH]

I have been around here awhile now and finally got some pics this weekend of my car at a local Auto Cross/Show. It was a blast and the car performed very well. Met quite a few folks, and Chris Robinson showed up on Sunday with his beautiful blue 69 camaro cover car. Was great to meet him and get to see his fantasic home built car in person.

Many thanks to Jon at Driverz for the wheels, tires and assitance with the stance. No lie, he rehooped the wheels a couple times to get everything to fit just right and it paid off. Only light rubbing on one brutal turn on the autocross, and I was able to secure the second quickest run of the weekend with a 28.92. Amazing to see how slowing down and running smooth trimmed a full 2 seconds over my first day attempts. I believe I made 14 passes total. Can't wait to get out to Button Willow for some open track days.

Couple of details on the car, Speedtech uppers/lowers, QA1's and swaybar from Speedtech, currently Heidts 2 inch drop spindles (have the ATS spindles, but awaiting brakes to go with them) DSE half inch high body mounts, DSE box and type II pump, leafs in the rear with poly bushings (dearched to get to ride height), Sparco Seats and belts, Momo Steering wheel, and a 406 under the hood with Vintage air. Tires are Nittos and wheels are Rushforth Super Spokes (19's and 20's).

Brakes are on the agenda next, then onto the new drivetrain. I have tried very hard on this car to do one thing at a time, refine it, then move onto the next item. My tendancy would be to strip it completely and start from scratch, however it's not feasable at this time in my life with a 6 and 4 year old, and I have to say it has been very fun to move forward one piece at a time and note the improvement in performance. This site has introduced me to a whole new world of ideas, not to mention some great people like Jon at Drivers, and Blake, Roger and Tim at Speedtech. Thanks to this community, my addiction is being well fed.

Doug

[BlackenedRR]

Beautiful car with a wicked stance!!!

[Flash68]

Sweet setup!!

[tones2SS]

WOW! Nice looking car there Doug! Stance is looowwwww. lol
Looks like the tires would rub on turns, but that's great to hear that they do not! VERY NICE!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[fleetus macmullitz]

A stance to duplicate for sure. :thumbsup:

Best of all...it's a '69!

:P

[Spiffav8]

Nice to see you have a pit crew supporting you. That's an awesome picture. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Great looking car - and from the times - great running too! Driving ain't bad either!

Stay with the "messin' with the kids" - there's plenty of time LATER for cars... in the meantime you have a nice one to play with as is.

[z4me69]

nice car what size are the wheels and tires?

[Vegas69]

Looks really good. I can't believe you aren't rubbing worse at that ride height on the autocross. You must have been conservative on widths. Seat are great aren't they? I'm running the same chrono roads.

[Tom.A]

Looks great :thumbsup:

[DFRESH]

Hey man, coming from you that is a compliment! I have taken some serious flak for those seats, (import wanna be, etc) but after this weekend and really driving the car hard, they are by far my favorite--once I saw them in your car, I knew they were a good choice! As I mentioned in my PM to you awhile back, I really liked the look of those black centered wheels on your car and it got me thinking about it on mine.

You are right about tire size, I had to get narrower than what I started with to fit them on the front. Would have liked to stay wider for performance, however, once I had the stance down where I wanted it, I couldn't make myself bring it back up. My drag car sits low like this (also a 69) and I was pretty determined to get it where I wanted it. I knew I would sacrafice some things like tire width in front to get it sitting this way, but that's what was important to me. The other biggie for me was that it could still perform at that ride height without rubbing and scrapping everything (hence things like shorty style headers to get the exhaust as tight as I could, switching to button heads on the inner fenderwell, etc.) The other huge piece that made the difference was Jon at Driverz. He really worked with me to get the backspacing just right. Still hoping to see your car at the streetcar shootout.

Doug

Looks really good. I can't believe you aren't rubbing worse at that ride height on the autocross. You must have been conservative on widths. Seat are great aren't they? I'm running the same chrono roads.

[Blake Foster]

Very cool looking car!!
glad we could help

[Vegas69]

Really, I've never been razzed about my seats once. I bet it's your buddies giving you a hard time. Can you imagine running an autocross with stock seats. :lol:

That 19/20 combo with the addition of the half height body bushings help it look lower than it is in reality. I have run mine similar height in the front and slighly higher in the back. I found when it got to low in the back, my rear yoke contacted the tunnel lightly. It wasn't something I heard. I suppose my added horsepower along with large contact patch out back combined with the soft setting I use on the street doesn't help me. I've got it where I can punch it in first gear and hook it up now with my r888's. It really squats nice. I would be on the lookout as your springs settle to make sure you don't get to low for your tunnel. Measure your ride height now so you can reference it later. You could always fabricate a bump stop on both axles if needed. The stock stuff won't work. On the front I added the 275's and the r888's seem to be more square. The first time I autocrossed them the course had 2 tight 90 degree turns. That was the only point where I had a rub and it was on the outside on both sides. Since I've added camber and raised the front a hair. I'm running my next autocross in a few weeks. I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm glad you finally posted some photos. You did a great job:thumbsup:

[fleetus macmullitz]

Don't resist the urge to overload us with more pics! :cool:

[DFRESH]

Thank you! F 19x8 235 35
R 20x9 275 35


nice car what size are the wheels and tires?

[DFRESH]

Don't resist the urge to overload us with more pics! :cool:

Ok, here's a few more---Barry White (from Barrys Street Rods or SMC I think- he's a local down this way) picked some cars for awards--he presented--was neat. I had a different impression of him from watching him on TV, he was a very cool down to earth guy all weekend and I really enjoyed getting to know him. His crew were also very good guys--I never would have thought they could or would appreciate a build in progress like mine, but I was wrong. It's nice to be surprised now and again.

There were guys taking what looked to be professional pics--still trying to track down who they were. I'd like to get my hands on those if I could. If they are available, once I get them I will put them up. Thanks for wanting to see more--coming from this community, that is a great feeling!

Doug

[DFRESH]

Really, I've never been razzed about my seats once. I bet it's your buddies giving you a hard time. Can you imagine running an autocross with stock seats. :lol:

That 19/20 combo with the addition of the half height body bushings help it look lower than it is in reality. I have run mine similar height in the front and slighly higher in the back. I found when it got to low in the back, my rear yoke contacted the tunnel lightly. It wasn't something I heard. I suppose my added horsepower along with large contact patch out back combined with the soft setting I use on the street doesn't help me. I've got it where I can punch it in first gear and hook it up now with my r888's. It really squats nice. I would be on the lookout as your springs settle to make sure you don't get to low for your tunnel. Measure your ride height now so you can reference it later. You could always fabricate a bump stop on both axles if needed. The stock stuff won't work. On the front I added the 275's and the r888's seem to be more square. The first time I autocrossed them the course had 2 tight 90 degree turns. That was the only point where I had a rub and it was on the outside on both sides. Since I've added camber and raised the front a hair. I'm running my next autocross in a few weeks. I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm glad you finally posted some photos. You did a great job:thumbsup:


Todd, great tips. I did measure it and have those written down, as I was prepared to raise it if necessary for the autocross or open track days. Negative camber is a friend of mine now--it helped the clearance obviously, but it has just the right balance for freeway and autocross at the moment. Will keep an eye on the tires to see how quickly I tear through them.

Yeah, you are right about the seat comments--all buddies of mine---one of them also felt that I ruined the car by taking the rally wheels off---LOL--

I never was a fan of the 19 and 20 combo, but you are exactly right, the car does look lower than it really is with this setup. The body mounts really helped that as you've said, and the other item that causes it to look so low, believe it or not, is the wheel moulding. Without it, it really does look higher both front and rear by at least a 1/4 of an inch. I felt it added to the look I was after, so after removing it, I ended up putting it all back on.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Good to see more pics. Your car looks great of course Doug. :thumbsup:

I'm interested in what condition your '69 was in when you started, and who did what as far as bodywork and paint, if you don't mind sharing that info.

[DFRESH]

Good to see more pics. Your car looks great of course Doug. :thumbsup:

I'm interested in what condition your '69 was in when you started, and who did what as far as bodywork and paint, if you don't mind sharing that info.

Sure-- I purchased this car about 1.5 years ago off Ebay--came from Georgia. Seller described it as about a 6.5 out of a 10 for black paint. He was right I would say. I've stretched it to maybe a 7.5 with a cut and buff and some panel alignment. Gaps aren't very good on the car overall. I was really hoping for driver quality with this purchase, as paint/ body and interior are the things I am not able to do on my own. The rest of the car needed attention as it was completely stock for the most part--someone had replaced both quarters and the trunk pan.

Things like wiring, squeeks and rattles, the annoying stuff I fixed in the first year. I then added the seats, 4th gen console, steering wheel, addressed the suspension front and rear (rear will get converted this next year) and then moved onto tires and wheels. It was really important to me to get a car with driver quality paint and body as I knew I would really want to drive it quite a bit and not be afraid of the occasional chip in the paint that seems impossible to avoid with a black car. It also came with the vintage AC, which, believe it or not, was a selling point for me. I believe I paid 22 k for the car and feel pretty good overall about it. If I could learn one thing more, it would be paint and body, as it is hard for me to justify spending 20k on a paint job--although, I know I would if circumstances were right. I attached some pics of it from the ebay add.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Sure-- I purchased this car about 1.5 years ago off Ebay--came from Georgia. Seller described it as about a 6.5 out of a 10 for black paint. He was right I would say. I've stretched it to maybe a 7.5 with a cut and buff and some panel alignment. Gaps aren't very good on the car overall. I was really hoping for driver quality with this purchase, as paint/ body and interior are the things I am not able to do on my own. The rest of the car needed attention as it was completely stock for the most part--someone had replaced both quarters and the trunk pan.

Things like wiring, squeeks and rattles, the annoying stuff I fixed in the first year. I then added the seats, 4th gen console, steering wheel, addressed the suspension front and rear (rear will get converted this next year) and then moved onto tires and wheels. It was really important to me to get a car with driver quality paint and body as I knew I would really want to drive it quite a bit and not be afraid of the occasional chip in the paint that seems impossible to avoid with a black car. It also came with the vintage AC, which, believe it or not, was a selling point for me. I believe I paid 22 k for the car and feel pretty good overall about it. If I could learn one thing more, it would be paint and body, as it is hard for me to justify spending 20k on a paint job--although, I know I would if circumstances were right. I attached some pics of it from the ebay add.

Thanks for the insights into your buy and build process Doug.

The a/c can be a real big selling point, especially since your family comes along for the ride. :)

Purchase price seems very fair IMO and its nice to read about an ebay story that worked out too.

[tones2SS]

Ok, here's a few more---Barry White (from Barrys Street Rods or SMC I think- he's a local down this way) picked some cars for awards--he presented--was neat. I had a different impression of him from watching him on TV, he was a very cool down to earth guy all weekend and I really enjoyed getting to know him. His crew were also very good guys--I never would have thought they could or would appreciate a build in progress like mine, but I was wrong. It's nice to be surprised now and again.

There were guys taking what looked to be professional pics--still trying to track down who they were. I'd like to get my hands on those if I could. If they are available, once I get them I will put them up. Thanks for wanting to see more--coming from this community, that is a great feeling!

Doug

Very cool Doug!!
Yeah, I used to watch that show that you are talking about with Barry White and his crew. They do a lot of resto mod type cars. Congrats!:thumbsup:

[DFRESH]

Very cool Doug!!
Yeah, I used to watch that show that you are talking about with Barry White and his crew. They do a lot of resto mod type cars. Congrats!:thumbsup:

Thanks Man! Barry was surprised-I think a lot of folks were, when I took it out the Auto Cross and it performed well. One of his guys said to me later in the day that when he saw the car he automatically thought it was strictly show and that it would never work on the autocross. I heard that a bunch from spectators as well.

[fleetus macmullitz]

the other item that causes it to look so low, believe it or not, is the wheel moulding. Without it, it really does look higher both front and rear by at least a 1/4 of an inch. I felt it added to the look I was after, so after removing it, I ended up putting it all back on.

That is interesting; wouldn't thought of that. But it works...:thumbsup:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3816/random030.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/random030.jpg/)

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6500/random016.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/random016.jpg/)

[DOOM]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NICE!!!!!!!:cheers: :wow:

[DriverzInc]

Doug,
It was fun hanging with you this weekend, and the car really does look KILLER with the stance and wheels. :thumbsup: Huge difference between the "before" and "after" pics.

My pleasure to help of course, in anyway as always. Let me know when the time is right for brakes.

[Matt@BOS]

I had to drop by O.C. Sunday to pick some stuff up for my car. I just made a quick run though the show, but I did see your Camaro. It looks great. I know you mentioned the paint not being perfect, and while I agree, I really didn't think it detracted from your car at all. I mean, with wheels, and a stance like you've got, it looks flat out wicked. It was refreshing to see it there. Most of the other cars are still somewhat original looking, or sporting Torque Thrust IIs.

Matt

[JayR]

That car looks killer, Doug! Great job on the stance and of course the wheels!

Thanks for running Rushforths. It really looks great and hats off to you for taking it out and lapping the auto-x with it! More addictive than crack, isn't it?!

[chr2002ca]

Hey Doug!

Glad to see you post some pics of your ride here. I watched Doug perform at the Autocross and he can drive the hell out of his car. His car performs as great as it looks, and many of the spectators that were sitting next to me were mentioning the same thing. He won both a 'build' award and 1st place at the Autocross, so I think that validates the 'show plus go'.

I agree with your words about Barry White. When I first saw his show 'Wrecks-to-Riches' on TV, I didn't have a very high opinion of him. However, when I met him in person in Del Mar, he was exceptionally friendly, complimentary, and down-to-earth. So I think his TV shows weren't a very accurate depiction of him.

I really do appreciate you inviting me to hang out with you and meet your friends. If you haven't met Doug in person, he's one of the friendliest and funniest guys you'll ever meet. He's done a great job with his car and I think he's got serious potential as a road-racer.

I look forward to catching up with you and your crew again real soon Doug!

-Chris

[nvr2fst]

Great looking 69 Doug. Wicked stance and IMO the wheel well moldings add that certain personal touch you were trying to achieve. Nothing like putting something together, staring at it, taking it off and the putting it back on.
Nice ride,
Dave

[DFRESH]

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/Labor20Day202009_20090906_036.jpg

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu50/dfresh69/Labor20Day202009_20090906_035.jpg

Kids stole the show once I got up there--it was something else--

I really like the idea of the show and an auto x event--I think the GG have this figured out.

Doug

[waynieZ]

The car looks great, you must have done a real nice cut and buff!! Awesome stance.

[tones2SS]

Nice looking car Doug and congrats once again for the award.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[dlouie87]

I was just wondering how deep is that lip on the 20x9?

[DFRESH]

Just measured it---3.75 with my backspacing

[DaleLee]

Love the stance and wheel package:thumbsup: