Narrow another or Suck it up?

[PASD U]

Ok. So unlike probably most here my talent is weak. I've been really wanting to stuff 10" wide wheels underneath my 65 Chevelle and I've heard everything from "won't fit" to "pretty tight". My second choice which would alleviate this issue would be narrowing the frame and widening the wheel wells. I've read other's posts that did it but aside from the no talent thing, I don't have the tools and not much room so this is where I start giving money away for someone who does possess those attributes. Since the Chevelle is already a driver I was thinking instead of downing it for what would probably end up MONTHS, I could possibly get a 2nd frame, build that up and then transfer the body over to it. This would essentially cut down on my downtime. Also, I could install the rest of the parts myself as long as I didn't need much more than basic tools. So...in you guy's opinion, would it be worthwhile/smart/budget friendly to go with the second frame idea? Keep in mind that I could probably get friends to help me with the teardown but any welding, powdercoating, etc. of either frame would be done by professionals. I'm just not sure where to start as this is the foundation of the rest of the build. Also, I have a 10 bolt now and am planning to switch to 12 bolt. Ideally I'd like to find someone here in north Texas that can be trusted to do the work but if there was another way I'm all ears (eyes). To sum it up:

1. Lack the talent (welding, p-coating)
2. Really want to run 10" wide wheel in the rear
3. Would like to install the suspension parts myself
4. Enjoy the idea of a professional keeping things in perfect alignment

[GregWeld]

Suck it up - have a pro do the whole job. You're not going to save any money doing only part of the job. The rear end has to be dropped out of there - cut - new ends welded on it - mini tubs etc... probably the spring perches need to be moved etc... so not sure what part you're going to "save on" doing the last few bolts... and if you take it somewhere - and the take it all apart -- and do the 'work' - how you going to get it home etc without a functioning rear end...

Just my .03 worth. Have them do the work. SANS painting etc. You then can bring it home - jack it up - take out the rear end and do nice paintwork and have it back together in a couple weekends.

THAT -- or buy a Currie (or someone else's) housing etc all done - narrowed mounts on etc...

You can - with a few simple tools - whack the inner wheel tubs and widen them with a new strip of sheet metal... Use a thin metal ruler and mark a nice line where you want to cut - use a cut off wheel (air or electric) and whack that line - then drill out the spot welds (using a spot weld cutter) around the rim of the wheel tub where it's spotted to the truck floor.... take that part out -- mark and cut the floor where you need it - keeping the same lines (you can follow the same shape exactly and just move it over 2 inches or whatever you need.... you can even "trace" the part of the tub you just cut out... then "FILL" the space / gap with some new sheet metal.... Doing it this way keeps the stock attachment points etc around the fenders (no repaint) and is actually pretty simple -- although backbreaking work due to the location. If you're not building a "show car" -- you are capable of doing decent work if you care enough to. You can use some seam sealer where you moved stuff and paint it or whatever.

Now - some of these tub jobs are going to start to interfere with your back seat etc -- so you'll want to make sure this is something you really want to tackle -- and are able to see it through $$ and time wise.... It's like remodeling -- it's never that simple! LOL

[z4me69]

just take your time meashure 30 times cut 1 time. it's not that hard just takes time.

[PASD U]

I sort of see what you're saying. The work I was talking about doing was just the unbolting and bolting the new suspension parts and IF I had help, the body from the frame. And yeah, once I did manage to get the body off the frame I'd have to transport it. The most attractive part of having a spare, DONE frame in my garage was that I could ditch the factory parts and install the new goods myself (slowly) without working up under the car although at some point I would have to have that put up under the car as well.

[GregWeld]

I sort of see what you're saying. The work I was talking about doing was just the unbolting and bolting the new suspension parts and IF I had help, the body from the frame. And yeah, once I did manage to get the body off the frame I'd have to transport it. The most attractive part of having a spare, DONE frame in my garage was that I could ditch the factory parts and install the new goods myself (slowly) without working up under the car although at some point I would have to have that put up under the car as well.


Gotcha.... yes -- that is how I've done my stuff - new chassis - get 'er all done mostly, and do the body drop. However, I have a lift and a body rotisserie -- and you'll find that in order to do it "right" -- you'll do the body drop several times... because you'll drop it on - take measurements / do fitments - then lift it off to do some more work or mod's etc... back on for a check - and more work or re-do work and final other work. At least that's how I do it. No way am I good enough to put the body on once and have it all figured out.... besides I'm dumber than a stump and forget half what I just looked at 5 minutes ago... LOL

[GregWeld]

I'm going to add just one other "caveat" here... and then I'll shut up.

Once you have the body off the frame - there's all manor of 'stuff' you'll end up wanting to "attend to" -- such as all the grime that suddenly appears as being real nasty on the underbody - now that you can really see it --- and now is your chance to clean all that off and make it nicer... it's a little like remodeling -- your buddy stops by and says "hey - why don't we do "X" as long as we're doing it".... and that's when it starts...

Not sure where you live - but where I'm at - you'd best start these types of projects by the last week of September if you want to be back on the road by July 4th.... 'Cause that's what winters are for!


EEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[PASD U]

Texas! That's part of the reason it's just sitting now. Too d@m hot in the garage or outside during the day and with no A/C cruises are limited to night time. Hahaha.

Ok. So maybe I should do some frame hunting. Casually missed one a couple weeks ago for about $300. And don't worry about the "shutting up". I appreciate the help, the learning and...you're the only one that's paying me any attention. :lol:

[JRouche]

Ok, I love the idea of making up a frame at your leisure for the body. If you have the room then its all about having fun and being able to take your time on the frame. Put the parts you want on there, no rush, yer still driving the car. I really like it.

Greg brought up a very valid point too. Once you have put all yer sweat and blood (and cash) into the new frame you will separate the old frame and start looking at the underside of the body. You WILL want to put some effort into it too. No way you will want to put the road driven car ontop of the new frame without doing a full refinishing.

But really, that may be some time from now. Take your time on the new frame, do some research, do it exactly how you want to. I like your idea alot. Gives you some breathing room. Yer not pressed into getting it done NOW. Smart choice.

Oh, my input? Dont limit your wheel size to a 10" wheel. The chevelles can take (looks wise) a wide wheel, its a biggish car. IMO, I would shoot for a 12" wheel and build it for that. And if you decide to go with a 10" wheel nuthing lost. Really hard to scale up, easy to scale down. Think big, build big and then you have adjustability. JR

[PASD U]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, that's another reason I thought of the second frame. I know how ummmm...OCD I am and I know once I see that underbody filth I'll want to touch it up. I guess in many ways I'm answering my own questions. Helps to be reassured though.

[71RS/SS396]

Ok. So unlike probably most here my talent is weak. I've been really wanting to stuff 10" wide wheels underneath my 65 Chevelle and I've heard everything from "won't fit" to "pretty tight". My second choice which would alleviate this issue would be narrowing the frame and widening the wheel wells. I've read other's posts that did it but aside from the no talent thing, I don't have the tools and not much room so this is where I start giving money away for someone who does possess those attributes. Since the Chevelle is already a driver I was thinking instead of downing it for what would probably end up MONTHS, I could possibly get a 2nd frame, build that up and then transfer the body over to it. This would essentially cut down on my downtime. Also, I could install the rest of the parts myself as long as I didn't need much more than basic tools. So...in you guy's opinion, would it be worthwhile/smart/budget friendly to go with the second frame idea? Keep in mind that I could probably get friends to help me with the teardown but any welding, powdercoating, etc. of either frame would be done by professionals. I'm just not sure where to start as this is the foundation of the rest of the build. Also, I have a 10 bolt now and am planning to switch to 12 bolt. Ideally I'd like to find someone here in north Texas that can be trusted to do the work but if there was another way I'm all ears (eyes). To sum it up:

1. Lack the talent (welding, p-coating)
2. Really want to run 10" wide wheel in the rear
3. Would like to install the suspension parts myself
4. Enjoy the idea of a professional keeping things in perfect alignment


Why don't you make a phone call to Detroit Speed and Engineering and find out what they did to Kyle's Chevelle to get the tires under it?

[PASD U]

Yeah, guess I could do that. Was never sure what size wheels they were running. I wish they'd throw some updates and new parts up on the site. Almost like they abandoned it, it doesn't show the 65 on the main Products page anymore.:mad:

[GregWeld]

By the way -- unless you're building a high zoot car -- to show etc --- you don't really need powder coating for a good finish on the frame and running gear --- ever tried POR-15?? You can brush -- or roll and back brush (called tipping off) with a brush.... and if you're stuff is really clean - and your area is fairly dust free... you can get a fabulous finish with the stuff.

We did my buddies 55 Post - had it on the rotisserie -- cleaned it with a propane torch ( a soft flame heats the "tar" and gunk up just a bit) making it MUCH MUCH easier to scrape with scrapers - metal and plastic versions -- then cleaned it MULTIPLE TIMES - with mineral spirits - then with a paint pre-prep until our white rags didn't show any residue... then rolled (small 3" rollers on a cage with real fine oil paint rollers) and back brushed it... came out flawless like it was sprayed.

I have spray equipment - the one guy rolling the other tipping off was faster - less messy and easy peasy.

Tell you one thing if you've never used it before - this crap - when it gets on something - ain't NEVER coming off... that includes the cement floor... your skin - or your frame or underbelly!! Seriously... it's the hardest damn stuff I've even seen! It's just got to be clean! Drying time is "longish" so the dust free - or pretty lint and dust free area is important. We left the body rolled onto it's "side" so the lint in the air wouldn't settle on it. Worked out great.
:cheers:

[PASD U]

Well bring the boys, the rotisserie and tools down to Texas. I'll buy the beer, the pizza and we can watch the game on The Monster (big screen).:lol:

[GregWeld]

Well bring the boys, the rotisserie and tools down to Texas. I'll buy the beer, the pizza and we can watch the game on The Monster (big screen).:lol:



Hell BOY!!! I'm from the great Pacific NorthWET -- that sun and heat down there'd kill me!!

Besides -- I hate snakes!

[GregWeld]

You need to beg borrow or steal one of these pieces of garage gear!!!



http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Ricks%2055%20with%20AME/Frontseatupholstery.jpg

[GM Muscle]

Tell you one thing if you've never used it before - this crap - when it gets on something - ain't NEVER coming off... that includes the cement floor... your skin - or your frame or underbelly!! Seriously... it's the hardest damn stuff I've even seen!


for future reference.. you can use ppg dt reducer to clean up.. it gets about 98% of it off.. it also works well to get the 3m panel bond off of your skin.. just soak a rag in it and get to scrubbing..

[tukes23]

I am questioning your thoughts on having to narrow the frame and the rearend to get a 10" wide tire on the rear of your car. I have a 66 GTO which is pretty much the same frame as your chevelle and i have a 20" x 10" wheel with a 265/30/r20 tire and have not modified the frame, fenderwells, or the rearend in any way. I know that '65 was the last year for the smaller body A-bodies but i don't think that the fenderwells are that much smaller. i think that if you want to fit a 10" wheel in the rear with the least headache and downtime, you just need to take some very careful measurements and get a wheel with the perfect backspacing. That's what I did and it worked perfectly. I have just about 1/4" of space on either side of the tire sidewall and the tire sits about 2" up in the fenderwell. If you decide to go this route i suggest that you either buy or try to borrow a Percy's Wheel-Rite tool. It will allow you to simulate your desired wheel and tire combo and check for interference. Once you are sure that everything fits it will give you the correct backspace reading for the wheel that you need. I have attached some pics of my car to give you a better idea.

[camcojb]

I am questioning your thoughts on having to narrow the frame and the rearend to get a 10" wide tire on the rear of your car. I have a 66 GTO which is pretty much the same frame as your chevelle and i have a 20" x 10" wheel with a 265/30/r20 tire and have not modified the frame, fenderwells, or the rearend in any way. I know that '65 was the last year for the smaller body A-bodies but i don't think that the fenderwells are that much smaller. i think that if you want to fit a 10" wheel in the rear with the least headache and downtime, you just need to take some very careful measurements and get a wheel with the perfect backspacing. That's what I did and it worked perfectly. I have just about 1/4" of space on either side of the tire sidewall and the tire sits about 2" up in the fenderwell. If you decide to go this route i suggest that you either buy or try to borrow a Percy's Wheel-Rite tool. It will allow you to simulate your desired wheel and tire combo and check for interference. Once you are sure that everything fits it will give you the correct backspace reading for the wheel that you need. I have attached some pics of my car to give you a better idea.
64/5 Chevelle rear fenderwell is quite a bit smaller than the 66/7's. I have a 3" minitub and 17X11's which have about 5/8" clearance inside and outside, with rolled inner fenderwells. There is no way a 10" wheel will clear on the earlier cars without a minitub.

Jody

[tukes23]

yeah, i wasn't sure how much smaller they were. i've built two '65 GTOs but they have both been stock style restorations so i didn't have to worry about this issue.

[70rs]

I am not sure what the budget is, but it would seem to me a second frame built up by you would cost less than just rolling your car to a shop and letting them go at it. You could also look into a Schwartz or Art Morrison chassis built to your specs with suspension and a rear end ready to go. You could have it delivered to your door and not have to take your car anywhere of you can do the mini tub project at home. Just a thought. Best of luck with the project. Post some pics of how it is now please.:cheers: